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The Wright Stuff
2006-05-23 19:01
by Cliff Corcoran
Note: The Bronx Banter blog has moved to bronxbanterblog.com.

Don't look now, but Jaret Wright is turning into a legitimate number five starter. In four starts in May including last night's victory over the Red Sox, Wright has posted the following line:

22 1/3 IP, 18 H, 7 R, 2 HR, 7 BB, 13 K, 2-1, 1.12 WHIP, 2.82 ERA

Last night, Wright held the Red Sox scoreless through five innings before leaving with a tweaked groin. Wright initially injured himself while trying to dodge a line drive by Kevin Youkilis leading off the first inning. The ball wound up sticking in Wright's ribs for the first out. In the fifth, an attempt to dodge another comebacker by Youkilis, which Wright also turned into an out, exacerbated the injury, ending his night after the inning.

Given Wright's predilection for being hit with flying objects in the later part of last season and the fact that the injury prone hurler has managed to stay healthy while the rest of the Yankee roster has crumbled around him, it seemed only a matter of time before Wright would get his. Fortunately, the Yankees don't expect Wright to miss his next start, though one wonders if they'll rethink their plans to skip Aaron Small's turn this weekend, instead using Small on regular rest to give Wright an extra day off before his next start.

While Wright was stymieing the Red Sox, who stranded seven men against the Yankee starter through five innings, the Yankees were pecking away at Tim Wakefield. Johnny Damon started the game by wrapping a homer around the Pesky pole. In the third Damon followed a one-out Andy Phillips walk by hustling a single to center into a double. Derek Jeter then singled home both men on Wakefield's next pitch to put the Yanks up 3-0. Wakefield handed the Yanks another run in the sixth when Alex Rodriguez reached first on a passed ball after striking out swinging, then took second on another passed ball, moved to third on a fielder's choice, and scored on yet another passed ball one pitch before Terrence Long struck out to end the inning.

With Wright out of the game, Scott Proctor came on and gave that run right back on singles by Trot Nixon, Alex Cora and Doug Mirabelli to make it 4-1 after six.

After getting Phillips and Damon out on three pitches to start the seventh, Wakefield lost the strike zone, walking Jeter and Sheffield on his next eight pitches. Jeter and Sheffield then executed a double steal as Wakefield fell behind 2-0 on Alex Rodriguez, who then teed off on a pitch in the zone. Somehow Rodriguez lost track of the ball off the bat and kept looking up as if he though he had popped it up, meanwhile the ball was sailing into the Monster seats in left field for a three-run homer, making it 7-1 Yanks and driving Wakefield from the game.

Red Sox again answered Rodriguez in the bottom of the inning when Youkilis and Loretta lead-off the inning with walks off Proctor. Proctor then got David Ortiz to line-out to center for the first out and got ahead of Manny Ramirez 0-2 only to put his next pitch on a tee for Manny, who launched it to dead center for a three-run jack of his own that ended Proctor's night.

Mike Myers came on and walked Trot Nixon before yielding to Kyle Farnsworth, who finished the inning, but not before adding a walk of his own, the fourth of the inning. Farnsworth then issued one-out walks to Youkilis and Mark Loretta in the eighth, forcing Joe Torre to bring in Mariano Rivera for a five-out save.

Rivera's first task was facing David Ortiz, who represented the tying run with men on first and second and one out and the Yankees up 7-4 in the eighth. Rivera's first pitch was inside, belt high and Ortiz lined it foul beyond the Red Sox dugout. His next had a bead on Ortiz's heavily padded right elbow, which the lefty slugger leaves hanging in the strike zone as he leans over the plate. Ortiz checked his swing and fouled that pitch straight back to make it 0-2. Posada then called for high heat up around Ortiz's eyes, but Rivera missed high and away for ball one. Rivera then took aim at Ortiz's elbow again and Big Papi popped the pitch up to Jeter behind second. That elbow pad makes a mighty nice target for Rivera's cutter, which appeared to crack Ortiz's bat on that pop out as a pissed off Papi snapped his club over his knee on his way back to the dugout.

Having retired Ortiz, Rivera missed Posada's low and away target on a 1-0 pitch to Manny Ramirez, leaving it belt high on the outside part of the plate, where Manny was able to get the barrel of the bat on it and line it past Jeter for an RBI single that made it 7-5. Mo then got Trot Nixon to pop out foul behind third for the final out and pitched around a one-out Alex Cora single in the ninth to pull the series even at a game a piece.

In Other News:

Jorge Posada pulled up lame while running out a groundout in the second inning. He finished the game without further sign of injury, but is listed as questionable for tonight's game with a strained tendon behind his knee. According to Joe Torre, Posada was putting heat on the tendon between innings all night last night.

Also, to clear room for Sheffield on the 25-man roster, the Yankees designated Colter Bean for assignment, an unnecessarily harsh demotion for Bean as he is only in his second option year (he was first added to the 40-man roster in November 2004) and the Yankees had just 39 men on their 40-man roster with Bean included. Even if the Yankees wanted to clear more room on their 40-man, they could easily have moved Sturtze, Pavano or Matsui to the 60-day DL. Besides which, Sheffield was already on the 40-man roster, meaning a space did not have to be cleared for him. The Yankees mistreatment of Bean remains utterly inexplicable.

Making matters worse, Scott Erickson and Terrence Long remain on the 25-man roster. Not only that, but Long has actually started the last two games. Hopefully the latter issue will be resolved starting tonight with Sheffield, Giambi and Melky Cabrera appearing in the line-up together for the first time this year as the Yanks look to beat up on Matt Clement to capture an unlikely series win. Torre has said he plans to bat Sheffield, Giambi and Rodriguez in that order in spots three through five in the line-up. Me likey.

Finally, Peter Abraham reports that the Yankees will call up a pitcher to replace Bean before tonight's game, likely at the expense of Kevin Reese. Peter thinks the hurler is likely to be Ramiro Mendoza. Me likey that'n too.

Comments (146)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-05-24 02:11:41
1.   Yu-Hsing Chen
After this game, would seem appropriate to write a quater review of the team in the offday?
2006-05-24 02:26:30
2.   rabid stan
Cliff, Cliff, Cliff.

A play on Jaret Wright's name for a headline? Now, you wouldn't be mailing it in, would you?

Say it ain't so.

I would consider posting every headline I could find (on google, in the paper, from other blogs...) featuring some kind of word-play with that name if I thought for a minute that a list that long wouldn't crash the toaster. I really do have all the time in the world to do that sort of thing.

Imagine: every "The Wright Stuff", every "Wrighting the Ship", "Wright on Target", "Yankees all-Wright", "Wright of Way", "The Vast Wright-Wing Conspiracy", "If Loving You is Wrong, Then I don't Wanna be Wright", etc., etc...

Where was I?

Oh, Wright. I actually love playing around with names. Great headline.

2006-05-24 02:57:46
3.   Yu-Hsing Chen
2 rofl, easy to think of headlines when u have a Wang and a Wright on ur rotation ;) not to meantion a Small...
2006-05-24 04:02:55
4.   Dimelo
Cliff, Why are people so hung up on Bean? Is he really a major league pitcher? The guy I saw before last night's game does not look like a major league pitcher. Do I know what a major league pitcher looks like? Not entirely, but I'm pretty sure a junk-baller is not one I want to see on the Yankees. That said, Erickson is a junk baller. And given the choice between Long or Bean, I'd take Bean. But for the moment I'd take Erickson over Bean. I don't know why I feel that way, maybe Erickson gives me more confidence. Though I wouldn't send Reese down to AAA for Ramiro. I'd rather they release Long.
2006-05-24 04:42:04
5.   joejoejoe
Did you know Scott Erickson and Joe Torre were teammates with the same player? Both played with Jim Dwyer, a career bench OF who played for 18 years with a ton of different teams. Which brings me to...

Six Degrees of Scott Erickson

As a rookie, Scott Erickson was teammates with Jim Dwyer (1), who as a rookie was a teammate of Joe Torre (2), who as a rookie was a teammate of Warren Spahn (3), who as a rookie was a teammate of Paul Waner (4), who as a rookie was a teammate of Babe Adams (5), who as a rookie was a teammate of Jack Beckley (6), who was a rookie in 1888.

Can anyone make a chain from a current Yankee player (or any current player) all the way back to 1876 (first year of organized baseball) in six steps of teammates? I used rookie years above but you can use any year players were teammates if you think it will help. I don't know if it can be done but linking Harold Baines to Minnie Minoso seems promising.

2006-05-24 04:56:07
6.   The Mick 536
A-Rod comes through with a PB/K trip to first that ends up in a run scored and a big homer.

Two nights in a row, Manny hits an 0-2 yard. Why do I always think our star 3ber will wiff in the same count?

2006-05-24 05:07:37
7.   murphy
cliff, dimelo4:

bean: in alex's interview with joel sherman he said something to the effect of "the general consensus around the majors is that bean just does not have good enough stuff to suceed at the MLB level". i am guessing sherman and his cohort have actually SEEN a bit more of bean than we have, so there may be something to that.

HOWEVER!!!

dimelo: erickson over bean? are you secretly bunking up with torre? more confidence? wow.

also: phillips came up with the big RBI against the mets. he's also been showing some ability in taking a pitch or two. he and bernie are starting to feel a LITTLE less like a DH black hole.

2006-05-24 05:09:44
8.   murphy
mick. please don't piss on our proverbial ice cream cone concerning ARod. while seemingly icing on the cake at the time, his HR is the differnce of an entire game in the standings.
2006-05-24 05:17:45
9.   vockins
Bean got DFA'd? I just got my kid his shirt!

If you see a 18 month old with a Bean T on at the stadium this season, say hi to the guy holding her hand, because it's me.

2006-05-24 05:24:47
10.   rbj
Big game for A-Rod. Scores twice and knocks in two more. Without him the game was lost. I got in after the fifth, so I didn't see Jaret, but nice to see those numbers.
What the heck was up with the bullpen last night? Did everyone this side of Mo forget where the strikezone was? One guy having an off night I can understand, but all three?!?
2006-05-24 05:47:49
11.   Dimelo
7 I know what you are saying about Erickson...I just have no faith in Bean. I just feel better with Erickson than Bean. Now, I don't think he should be on the team either and hopefully after Dotel comes back Smith stays and Erikson is booted out of here.
2006-05-24 05:48:15
12.   BobbyBaseBall
It was great seeing Mo being Mo against Papi in the 8th. And the fat Cookie Monster's reaction afterwards made it even sweeter.

In other observations, has anyone else notice that Papelbon has the Private Pyle look from "Full Metal Jacket"? With that blank country boy stare, I can't wait for his first blown save. Let's hope it's tonite.

2006-05-24 05:48:57
13.   joe in boston
Nice win, a really nice win.

Almost a "must win", but I won't call it that. Felt good.

Any thoughts on Manny showboatin' - watching that homer ???

2006-05-24 05:52:48
14.   murphy
12 funny wish. i was hoping we'd be so far ahead (giambi, plus ARod, plus sheffield back) that they don't even bother bringing Papalbomb in.
2006-05-24 05:57:35
15.   BobbyBaseBall
14 I know, I know. But it's gotta happen sometime, and I just want to be watching it. Truthfully, I wish it was one of those 17-3 games, but then I remembered who is pitching. Which begs the question, which is more demoralizing for the losing team: a comeback in the 9th, or a blow-out?
2006-05-24 06:08:49
16.   Dimelo
Really nice piece on ARod.
http://tinyurl.com/ledzk
2006-05-24 06:27:45
17.   Sliced Bread
Is there a video game villain or puffed up pro wrestler more cartoonishly cocky than that obnoxious clown Ramirez?

I love Posada's response when asked how he felt about Manny's showboating (as quoted in the Daily News): "I can't answer that question correctly."

2006-05-24 06:32:17
18.   joe in boston
Sliced Bread -

I'd love some chin music from Randy to Ramirez tonight. It's really just what BOTH of them need.

2006-05-24 06:45:27
19.   bp1
18 Yup. Totally.

17 Jorge and Proctor both showed amazing restraint in answering that question, but I think they got their feelings across.

Enough with the "Manny being Manny" already. Time for a little "Unit being Unit" tonight.

BP

2006-05-24 06:53:10
20.   ric
"Time for a little "Unit being Unit" tonight. "

that being 4 innings pitched, 7 earned runs?

2006-05-24 07:03:01
21.   Shawn Clap
On Manny: You know what time it is?
Time for someone to get their clock cleaned.
2006-05-24 07:12:38
22.   YankeeInMichigan
Why would Torre skip Small's spot against KC and then insert him in Detroit? Is it because Randy is hung up on his 5-day rythm? On a personal note, I'm headed to Comerica Monday and Tuesday and would rather see Wright and Randy than Randy and Small. Perhaps, as Cliff noted, Wright's groin may change things. Who knows? Last July, I woke up Sunday morning expecting to see Pavano and instead got treated to a masterpiece by Wang (Pavano hasn't pitched since).

As for the Bean DFA, it's so illogical that it almost has to be something personal. Perhaps after being informed of being optioned, Bean blew up and said "I want no part of you."

2006-05-24 07:22:46
23.   Mattpat11
I'm not crying for Bean. He didnt even look a little impressive. Not every 30 year old in the minors deserves a three month trial up here.
2006-05-24 07:28:52
24.   Sliced Bread
If I'm the Yankees, particularly the slumping Johnson, I wouldn't bother "sending a message" to Meathead Ramirez. Why feed into that jerk's childish game?

Tonight is an important game for Johnson, and the Yanks. I'm just hoping Randy can step up and pitch effectively, let alone try to dominate and intimidate.

That said, if Johnson (or any Yankee pitcher) thinks brushing back Ramirez (or any opposing hitter) is necessary, and can help win the game, I'm all for it.

2006-05-24 07:37:02
25.   bp1
24 Agreed that some sort of "Golden Sombrero" for Manny would be the best revenge, coupled with a clean win (which he may or may not notice), but he has shown in the past that he can be rattled by a close pitch.

Sure, it's an emtional reaction, and I'm sure Joe would be 100% dead set against it, but geez. Enough.

BP

2006-05-24 07:46:50
26.   Shawn Clap
24
I think that's just the thing. The only way RJ is effective if he is intimidating. When batters can dig in and feel comfortable in the box, well the result is Big Unit 2006.
2006-05-24 07:49:07
27.   unpopster
If The Unit wasn't going through such a difficult period, I'd say that hit cheese to Manny was guaranteed. But I think Randy just wants to right his ship right now and he's not interested in getting off his game plan.

However, with Randy, you just never know. Many he's been missing that killer instinct the last month or so and a nice adrenaline-pumping beanball might just do the trick for him.

On a side note, I think someone should ask Josh "The Sheriff" Beckett what he thinks of Manny's pose. If I hear that's "Manny Being Manny" from any Sox players another time, I think we should just bean every single player that ever mutters that phrase for the remainder of the season.

2006-05-24 07:53:18
28.   unpopster
27 that should have read "high cheese"
2006-05-24 07:54:47
29.   Fred Vincy
joejoejoe (5):

He's not a current Yankee, but:

Cap Anson (1876 Chicago White Stockings) played with (1) Buttons Briggs (1897 Chicago Colts) who played with (2) Johnny Evers (1905 Chicago Cubs) who played with (3) Johnny Cooney (1929 Boston Braves) who played with (4) Warren Spahn (1942 Boston Braves) who played with (5) Phil Niekro (1964 Milwaukee Braves) who played with (6) David Wells (1987 Toronto Blue Jays)

2006-05-24 07:57:14
30.   Dimelo
Did Bean really inspire that much confidence in some of you? I don't get it....after all the hype, I expected to see Sidd Finch. He's a pitcher that gets by on junk. He throws junk, looks like junk and should never be called back up because he is junk. No offense to Colter Bean the person, it's the pitcher I don't particularly like. I think some people overvalued Bean's success in the minors, part of me wants him back up just to see him get hammered for the sheer pleasure of going to NoMaas and seeing how they respond with their love fest with Colter Bean. Will they give him the same ridicule they gave Sturtze, Torre, Bernie, Mel Stot, etc? Not that those players and coaches aren't above criticism, I just don't get the philosophy "we love this guy" but "we hate this guy". And some the guys they love or care deeply for haven't really done much at the major league level.

With that said, I'm quickly falling in love with Melky and I'm starting to like his demeanor and approach. It also seems like he's tracking the balls better, too. He doesn't scare me anymore when a ball is hit to him. T-Long...he scares the crap out of me. Everything about him scares me, the scariest part is seeing him in a Yankee uniform.

2006-05-24 08:08:40
31.   Dimelo
I didn't know this..I just read this at RotoWorld.

Shortly before playing in Tuesday's game, Gary Sheffield said "he has a broken hamate bone in his left hand."
Sheffield reportedly considered surgery, which would have kept him out for 4-6 weeks. I don't have time for surgery," Sheffield said. "Not anymore." Don't be surprised if Sheffield fails to hit for his typical power. May. 24 - 10:03 am et
Source: Newark Star Ledger

2006-05-24 08:10:07
32.   bp1
30 Re: Melky. The "deer in the headlights" look of sheer panic seems to be slowly morphing into "I think I'm having fun". It's fun to watch.

BP

2006-05-24 08:11:42
33.   bp1
31 Dunno. If he connect with one of those swings in the 9th last night, nobody would be talking about Manny's monster blast today. The bat still looks mighty quick to my untrained eyes. I sure hope the wrist thing won't be a lingering problem.

BP

2006-05-24 08:33:59
34.   vockins
30 Bean pitched two innings!

I know Sturtze sucks because there is a mountain of evidence declaring he sucks.

2006-05-24 08:40:56
35.   Cliff Corcoran
31 There were whispers about this a couple of weeks back, but I thought they had been dismissed and that there was no hamate problem. Curious.

As for Bean, I don't care how he does it, but Bean gets hitters out at an alarming rate. That's all I need to know. Just because he's 300 pounds and lacks Scott Erickson's deep piercing blue eyes doesn't mean he's not effective (did you see Bean make David Wright look silly on Sunday?). There are junk ball pitchers in the Hall of Fame, you know.

Minor League numbers do translate to major league performance. Here are Bean's:

2006: 1.69 ERA, 26 2/3 IP, 16 H, 0 HR, 33 K

Career through 2005: 2.69 ERA, 371 1/3 IP, 276 H, 18 HR, 471 K

Explain to me why he doesn't deserve a longer trial at the big league level?

2006-05-24 08:42:17
36.   Shaun P
Just speculation, but I wonder if Bean's size and demeanor played into this. Normally I wouldn't speculate, but when I heard even Jon Miller and Joe Morgan, who are usually very professional - Joe's stupidity about Moneyball and stats aside - making fun of Bean, "Bean probably blocked for Joe Namath at Alabama" or something like that, it really makes me wonder.

I've never understood the phrase, "He doesn't look like a major leaguer." What, exactly, does a major leaguer look like? Guys of all heights (6'10" Unit, 5'10" (snigger) Rickey) and weights (170lb-soaking-wet Roy Oswalt, 250+lb Boomer Wells) have succeed in the bigs.

Who cares what Bean looks like? He has a great track record in the minors of getting people out and ought to be judged on that, not two innings.

Just my $0.02.

2006-05-24 08:45:08
37.   Maz
Perhaps what happens regarding this whole Manny thing is that Torre waits. With Johnson not on his game of late you really can't afford to have him deliver the payback. But, say late in this game, or the next series, Torre has Proctor in and lets him send the message.

Quite fitting I would think.

2006-05-24 08:53:37
38.   chris in c-bus
dimelo - i couldnt agree more...nomaas and some on this board love Bean but cant really say why...being a better option than erickson isnt a good enough reason to have him up here...not that erickson should be in the majors, but at least he can throw mop up innings whereas I dont think bean could go many innings in a row based on his actual role being a setup or closer at the AAA level. I've seen him pitch for the clippers many times and Bean is decent, but why people lobby for him so vehemently is beyond me...hopefully dotel comes back healthy and none of this matters...also, the same folks who love bean hated proctor and I think he's been a part of the yanks avoiding a total collapse in the last month. If farnsworth and dotel perform, proctor is the 3rd RH reliever and I will take that...At least proctor can throw hard...bean's junk isnt likely to get out big league hitters consistently after they've seen him a couple times...
2006-05-24 09:08:17
39.   chris in c-bus
sounds like posada's out tonight, but I guess he might have been anyway with unit on the hill..
2006-05-24 09:10:57
40.   Cliff Corcoran
38 Right because throwing hard translates directly into getting guys out, as we've seen with Mussina this year.

There's more than one way to skin a cat. In fact, the only reason Proctor's getting guys out now is because his breaking pitches are far more effective. Same with Wright. There are very few pitchers who can get by on heat alone. Junk is what gets hitters out in the major leagues. Wake's knuckler, Moose's change (both of which top out around 70 MPH), Zito's curve, Randy's slider (well, it used to), Roger's split finger, Wang's sinker. Movement, not speed is how you succeed in the major leagues. Even the best fastballs have to have movement (Mo's cutter, for example). Proctor threw hard, but straight and gave up homers in bunches. Now he's got breaking pitches and he's getting guys out. Bean's "junk" would work just fine in the majors, if he ever got a shot. Myself, I don't care how he does it, the results in 35 speak for themselves.

2006-05-24 09:14:21
41.   Dimelo
35Here's what I saw on Monday:
Bottom 8TH B:0 S:0 O:0
Pitcher Change: Colter Bean replaces Ron Villone.

Bottom 8TH B:4 S:2 O:0
Jason Varitek walks.

Bottom 8TH B:2 S:2 O:0
Mike Lowell doubles (21) on a fly ball to left fielder Terrence Long. Jason Varitek to 3rd.

Bottom 8TH B:3 S:1 O:1
Willie Harris out on a sacrifice fly to center fielder Bernie Williams. Jason Varitek scores.

Bottom 8TH B:1 S:1 O:1
Alex Cora singles on a line drive to left fielder Terrence Long. Mike Lowell scores.

Bottom 8TH B:1 S:2 O:3
Kevin Youkilis grounds into double play, second baseman Robinson Cano to first baseman Jason Giambi. Alex Cora out at 2nd.

--Good job, Bean. Only two runs scored.
Sunday vs. Mets

Bottom 6TH B:0 S:0 O:0
Pitcher Change: Colter Bean replaces Mike Myers, batting 9th.

Bottom 6TH B:3 S:3 O:1
David Wright strikes out swinging.

Bottom 6TH B:1 S:1 O:2
Cliff Floyd flies out to left fielder Bernie Williams.

Bottom 6TH B:1 S:0 O:2
Xavier Nady hit by pitch.

Bottom 6TH B:2 S:0 O:2
With Kazuo Matsui batting, Xavier Nady steals (2) 2nd base.

Bottom 6TH B:3 S:1 O:3
Kazuo Matsui grounds out, shortstop Derek Jeter to first baseman Jason Giambi.
--------------------------- MIDDLE 7TH

Bottom 7TH B:0 S:0 O:0
Offensive Substitution: Pinch hitter Jose Valentin replaces Aaron Heilman.

Bottom 7TH B:4 S:0 O:0
Jose Valentin walks.

Bottom 7TH B:1 S:0 O:0
Pitcher Change: Ron Villone replaces Colter Bean, batting 9th.

In two innings pitched he's allowed 2 walks, 1 HBP, 2 ER, and one great strikeout of David Wright. I noticed that if players like Lowell just sit and wait on his junk that they can hit it hard. There are a lot of prospects/minor-leaguers who when they get to the majors quickly turned into suspects and their minor leaguers didn't always translate.

Something I've often been confused by is the following, which you said Cliff, "Minor League numbers do translate to major league performance". What exactly is the % of that being true? Are we only looking at players who were successful at the major leagues and saying that it translates perfectly, within some standard deviation, and therefore the statement is true? Or have we looked at every minor leaguer who (eventually) reached the big leagues, who has a minimum number of at-bats or innings pitched, and come to this conclusion? I would say the latter is more accurate. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that should also be accompanied by some percentage too. Is it 51% of the time that the stats translate from the minors to the majors, or is it 75% of the times, etc. The talent pool at AAA and high double A aren't anywhere near as good as in the majors, so I don't think the stats always translate. Again if there's a place I can read and look at the data and study their findings then great.

I remember looking for the same sortive quantitative analysis in Shandler's Forecaster, but nothing exists. However, references are constantly made how they translate and I was a little confused because I don't think that's always the case. Then again I haven't asked the question till now.

2006-05-24 09:21:12
42.   alterity
38 Did you even bother to read 35? And as far as I'm concerned, if someone is a better option than someone else they should be on the major league roster. I maen, how does it make any sense at all to say that Bean is a better option than Erickson but the Yanks shouldn't use him? Answer: it doesn't.

And for all the people out there asking other people to justify their love of Bean, well it's based on 350+ innings of work in the minors. How do you justify not liking him based on FOUR! innings of MLB experience, not all of which happened in the past week?

What's amazing is that in the Joe Torre era the Yankees, to my knowledge, have not developed more than a couple of relievers: Mendoza and Rivera (and Mendoza is a stretch to call a reliever). Anyone else? Why the hell are we always spending so much money or giving away even grade C prospects when right handed relievers are about a dime-a-dozen, often to be had from within? It's not so much that the Bean situation is frustrating so much as Torre et al act like unless you make more than $2 million per or were good before the turn of the century you can't help the team. And BTW, no doubt Dotel will help when he gets back, but he will also further add to the specialization of the bullpen. Basically we're going to have a bunch of guys who Torre will only want to pitch with a lead or Myers who should only be used against lefties in key situations, which leaves Proctor for everything else (although now that he'ss in the circle of trust, I wonder what his role will be in teh future).

2006-05-24 09:33:44
43.   Cliff Corcoran
41 The term is translate, meaning there's some reduction there to adjust for the level of play (you have to translate them into the new level), but the relationship between performances at the different levels is consistant. This revelation dates back to Bill James who wrote in his 1985 Abstract:

"As a guide to major league performance, minor league batting statistics are reliable virtually 100% of the time. . .In anticipating future major league performance, minor league batting records are of essentially the same degree of reliability as previous major league batting statistics."

In that book, James figured that players lost 18% of their production in jumping from AAA to the majors (or rather, retained 82 percent of their production). You can read Rich Lederer's summary of James' material on minor league translations here:

http://tinyurl.com/l72ea

2006-05-24 09:40:43
44.   Zack
This debate I think is typical of us fans wanting it both ways: we want guys from our system to get a chance and avoid the older, crappy veterans we are plagued with, yet when a guy does come up, 2 innings of work and how a guy "looks or feels" are allowed to stand in for history.
As Cliff has already pointed out just about every time this debate comes up (which is often and ditto for Andy), its not that these guys have wallowed in the minors because they stink, the #'s don't lie. They have wallowed in AAA because our team doesn't understand about giving them a chance. So cut the he's a 30 year old minor leaguer he can't be good crap. And stop acting like we say that Bean would have been the savior of this team, because no one ever said that. What we all did propose, however, was that given a fair trial, Bean could be a solid addition to the bullpen and serve a Nelson type role complimenting Myers. Bean is murder on righties.

Everyone hems and haws over wanting Smith back, but if he comes up and sucks for 5 innings, does that mean we should give up on him too?

2006-05-24 09:53:04
45.   Shawn Clap
There's got to be more to this Colter Bean saga than we know. It just doesn't make any sense to DFA him, especially when Terrence Long is running around in a Yankee uniform.

If the Yanks brass hate Bean that much, why not just trade him? Surely his great AAA stats could fetch something in the trade market.

2006-05-24 09:58:40
46.   tocho
Re: Bean, I saw him v. the angels in the 10 rbi game by a-rod. he was also a bit wild with a large lead. I think the difference with him and the pitchers cliff mentions is that aside from wakefield the others have a good fastball to keep batters off-balance. Anyway I agree that its a very small sample and I hope he gets a fair shot on another team. Clearly the yanks don't like him.

Re: the game last night, one of the best things was that Posada started. I heard some comments that stinnett would start since he had been working very well with Wright. I'm just very glad that none of that proved to have any grounds.

Re: tonight's game, this game is VITAL for RJ, if he has a good performance it will bolster his confidence, if he doesn't hell will break loose with Stein and company. I think he'll bounce back and have a nice game and the yanks will win it.

my $0.02

2006-05-24 10:01:10
47.   Dimelo
Thanks for the link, Cliff.
2006-05-24 10:19:50
48.   Dimelo
WasWatching thinks that Bean might've been DOA, sorry...I meant DFA'ed because the Yanks might use him in a trade.

http://tinyurl.com/rxro8

2006-05-24 10:30:16
49.   Cliff Corcoran
48 I caught that. I generally distrust any and all trade rumors, but it's the only acceptable answer. If it turns out Bean isn't traded (and a very vendictive part of me would love to see him do for the Nats what Juan Padilla did for the Mets last year), however, the Yankees still have some 'splainin' to do. As for the rumored player the Yanks would get in return, Ryan Church, he'd be a nice pickup, but an ironic one as he's basically the Nationals' Andy Phillips, a 27-year-old who has done nothing but hit who can't get a fair shake in the majors.
2006-05-24 10:34:40
50.   brockdc
I can see your point, Cliff. I realized that not every pitcher needs to throw 98 MPH to get guys out in the bigs, but Bean hasn't looked like he's fooling anyone with his off-speed junk (admittedly, it's a very small sample). While everyone's shedding a tear for poor ol' Colter, I ask you, hasn't Smith earned a spot on the 24-man?
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-05-24 10:41:13
51.   Mattpat11
He's not just the 30 year old minor leaguer. He's the 30 year old minor leaguer that gets smacked around every time he sees major league pitching. Hes the thirty year old minor leaguer that both the Yankees and Red Sox passed on in order to give him to each other. That sets up all sorts of warning bells for me.
2006-05-24 10:42:41
52.   Nick from Washington Heights
Bean's pitched 2 innings this season. The conclusions anyone can draw from that sample size seem close to meaningless. Maybe I'm being crazy.
2006-05-24 10:45:32
53.   chris in c-bus
cliff, alterity
I am not anti-bean and I'm not down on his stuff by referring to it as junk. I just dont think the brass thinks he can consistently get major league hitters out with a bunch of offspeed pitches that are basically the same speed with no real fastball to back it up. If that is true of proctor (in reverse), why is that not true for bean? or does Bean have a great fastball that I havent seen in my numerous first hand observances of him at Columbus? all the guys cliff mentions in #40 get guys out because they can change speeds, not just because of 'movement'...I just find it hard to believe that Colter Bean is the next great thing based on all the times i've seen him pitch...does he deserve a shot? maybe, but maybe not if the role he will be asked to fill is different that what he's done for 350 plus minor league innings...I'm not trying to say Bean sucks because he obviously doesnt, I just cant understand why every team in MLB doesnt want him if he is as great as some of you think he is. I mean, the passion in some of the comments lead me to believe you think he can be a major factor on an MLB team but so few people in baseball appear to feel the same way...
2006-05-24 10:50:42
54.   unmoderated
53 i'm curious, how did they use him in Columbus? middle relief? righty specialist? closer? i could probably find out by doing a little digging, i'm just interested to hear from someone who's seen a lot of him where he has succeeded.
2006-05-24 10:54:56
55.   Mattpat11
52 Its the bad innings here, its the bad innings last year, its the numerous bad spring trainings, is the whole rule five thing, these all sort of point to something.
2006-05-24 10:55:31
56.   Paul in Boston
Hate to change the subject, guys, but I thought it was interesting that Doug Mirabelli thought A-rod was "showing up" the Red Sox by pretending not to know he hit the ball out.

This is of course ridiculous -- anyone who sees the replay has to realize that you can't fake that.

2006-05-24 10:58:17
57.   Cliff Corcoran
50 I agree completely on Smith. How you can demote a guy who didn't even allow a baserunner and then turn to someone like Erickson is beyond me. To make it even worse, it's actually a 25-man roster, but still no room for Bean or Smith. Assuming Mendoza really is joining the team tonight they only need sub out Erickson for Smith to get me to shut my trap about the bullpen, Bean or no Bean.
2006-05-24 10:59:53
58.   Dimelo
I'll be honest with you, I'd much rather go back-and-forth about Colter Bean than rehash the f'ing ARod crap from yesterday. What a difference a win can make, ehh?

Talk about our superstar third baseman or talk about a specific junk ball pitcher with junk-in-the-trunk? I know...I know...I'm being a bit evil...but the ARod stuff yesterday gave me an aneurism.

It would be nice to see RJ do something good today. The Sawx will have a righty based lineup, Wily Mo, Alex Gonzalez, etc.

2006-05-24 11:04:26
59.   rsmith51
I think Jason Giambi needs to make friends with more talented players.(Sturtze, Erickson, T-Long???)
2006-05-24 11:04:26
60.   chris in c-bus
last two years in columbus he has been a setup guy who goes at least an inning...they dont automatically pull him when lefties come up very often - although he logged more innings per appearance in 04 versus 05...You can see that he's been very effective, although 04 numbers are significantly better than 05 numbers. he was 4-7 in 2005 and 9-3 in 2004. Biggest difference I see in his small ML sample and what I saw at AAA level is he was clearly nervous (unstandably so)in ML while appeared much more in command of the game when I saw him at AAA.

05 stats:
era - 3.01
appearances - 65
IP - 71.2
hits - 60
BB - 39
Ks - 82

04 stats:
ERA - 2.29
appearances - 53
IP - 82.2
BB - 23
Ks - 109

2006-05-24 11:05:23
61.   Mattpat11
56 I'm not totall sure how the crowd, the baserunners and Wakefield's reaction didnt clue him in to what was going on, but it was pretty clear that he legitimately didnt notice.
2006-05-24 11:05:48
62.   murphy
RJ BETTER pitch well. i gave him the start for my fantasy team. ; )
2006-05-24 11:06:44
63.   chris in c-bus
those numbers are only at AAA Columbus...he pitched for trenton both years too, although only briefly in 2005.
2006-05-24 11:08:26
64.   chris in c-bus
cliff,
to what degree do you think Torre is really the GM? Seems like Cashman has been much more willing to use youth while we know Torre is completely against it...do cashman and torre ever clash this stuff?
2006-05-24 11:12:51
65.   Cliff Corcoran
64 Wish I knew.
2006-05-24 11:20:21
66.   Shaun P
50 Sure, but the Yanks could have kept Bean in the majors, given him more of a fair shake, and called up Smith by simply kissing Scott Erickson goodbye.

If all Yankee 'rookies' were judged on the results of their first 2 IP/2 ABs and their minor league track records were ignored:

Mariano Rivera, 5/23/95 - 3.1 IP, 5 R, 1 HR, 3 BB, 5 K - nope
Andy Pettitte, 4/29/95, 4/30/95, and 5/6/95 - 2.2 IP, 5 R, 0 HR, 0 BB, 1 K - nope
Ramiro Mendoza - 5/25/96 - 6 IP, 3 R, 0 HR, 0 BB, 6 K - OK, he stays
Derek Jeter, 5/29/95 - 0 for 5, 1 K - buh-bye
Jorge Posada, 5/22/96 and 6/30/96 - 0 for 2, 1 K - so long
Alfonso Soriano, 9/14/99 and 9/19/99, 0 for 2, 1 R - see ya
Robinson Cano, 5/3/05 - 0 for 3, 1 K - bah
Ruben Rivera, 9/3/95 and 5/23/96 - 2 for 3, 2B, BB, K, HBP, 2 RBI - you're in, kid
Hideki Matsui, 3/31/03 - 1 for 4, 1 RBI - back to Japan with you!
Hideki Irabu, 7/10/97 - 6.2 IP, 2 R, 0 HR, 4 BB, 9 K - you can stay!
Randy Choate, 7/1/00, 7/2/00, 7/4/00, 7/6/00 - 2.1 IP, 1 R, 1 BB, 1 K - I guess you're OK
Jay Tessmer, 8/27/98 and 8/28/98 - 2 IP, 0 R, 3 K, 1 W - take a low uniform #, kid

And just for the heck of it:
Bob Wickman, 8/24/92 - 6 IP, 6 H, 5R, 0 BB, 0 HR, 2 K - ah, no
Sterling Hitchcock, 9/11/92 - 6 IP, 1 R, 1 BB, 2 K - welcome to the bigs
Don Mattingly, 9/11/82 and 9/22/82 - 0 for 2, K - sorry, dude
Dave Righetti, 9/16/79 - 5 IP, 3 R, 1 HR, 6 BB, 3 K - no thanks

This is just a small sample, but the point remains - trying to judge what a guy is/isn't capable of based on two innings of work is impossible.

Even Mo didn't look all that great his first time out, and he was a short little righty who hardly 'looked' like a major leaguer.

2006-05-24 11:22:56
67.   Sliced Bread
62 Murphy, I seem to recall reading during the 2001 World Series that Johnson was filling out his fantasy football lineup before one of his starts. So, he'd probably appreciate your demand for a quality fantasy start tonight.
2006-05-24 11:23:37
68.   Mattpat11
How many of those guys were 29 with a series of awful spring trainings and a rule five selection and return in their history?
2006-05-24 11:27:28
69.   chris in c-bus
68. ouch!

for those looking for complete stats on bean:
http://www2.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/players/Colter_Bean/

2006-05-24 11:38:50
70.   Dimelo
Back to Giambi and his friends, I just went to the day-by-day database to look at Giambi's stats before Erickson was called up and after.
Here you go:
Before Erikson was called up
BA / OBA / Slug% / OPS / SB% / AB per HR
.278 / .496 / .691 / 1.187 / 100.00 /8.08

After Erikson was called up
BA / OBA / Slug% / OPS / SB% / AB per HR
.143 /.324 / .179 / .503 / - / -

I saw Erikson got called up on the 13th, so I used that date as the break point. No HR since he was called up. I'm not trying to start any rumors, but if Giambi is juicing Erickson with his protein shakes then someone has got to get between these two - I'm not volunteering either. I remember in Raging Bull Jake Lamotta wouldn't have sex because he felt it would deprive him of his power and training. Giambi is Italian and I'd like to think that he's more like Tony Soprano and less like Vito.

BTW, this is all meant to be a joke....but I did find it interesting.

2006-05-24 11:40:04
71.   Mattpat11
I'd like to see his spring training numbers.
2006-05-24 11:42:11
72.   claybeez
My problem with the handling of Colter Bean has nothing really to do with Bean himself. It is poor management for a first-class organization to consistently decide which minor leaguers will fail and then to substantiate that belief by throwing said minor leaguers into the most difficult situations in order to prove themselves. If any minor leaguer is deemed worthy of promotion shouldn't the organization attempt to give the minor leaguer the greatest possibility of success?

Joe Torre consistently displays his bias towards youth by marginalizing call-ups and inserting them into the most stressful situations in which their anxiety and belief that this is their one opportunity to prove their value clearly works against them. I would think that all of those playing for the Clippers know this which would only add to the pressure they might feel on being called-up.

Colter Bean is not Mariano Rivera. Few are. To complement Mo we need useful arms capable of getting outs. That is not a determination that can generally be made in 4 innings. If it were the case Bean would indeed certainly be a career minor leaguer and some one like Sindey Rleal of the O's would be the next coming of Mo himself.

The pressure of playing in New York is substantial enough. There is no need for the organization to compound that.

2006-05-24 11:51:17
73.   vockins
72 Well put. I also don't understand how Erickson is somehow a better option. The situation makes no sense.
2006-05-24 11:55:25
74.   Shaun P
68 71 Jeff Weaver went 5-0 with a sub 2.00 ERA in Spring Training in 2004. Tell me again your source for proving that spring training numbers mean anything? As opposed to minor league numbers, which translate directly to the majors, as Cliff pointed out above.

And, how can you say Bean has had a "series of awful spring trainings" 68 and then say you want to see his spring training numbers 71? How do you know for a fact that Bean has had a "series of awful spring trainings" if you haven't seen the numbers?

2006-05-24 11:57:01
75.   chris in c-bus
i dont think anybody thinks Erickson is the better option except torre...that said, you cant have a pen full of guys who can only go 1-2 innings before they tire and that's exactly what you will have if you bean, smith, farnsworth, villone, procter and rivera...you have to keep a guy on the staff who can pitch 4 innings if your starter gets bombed early and only lasts a few innings...would you rather have a clown like erickson pitch 4 innings of long relief in a game where the outcome is probably not in doubt or make all those short relief guys burn an inning for no good reason? If Small has to start again I dont what other option we currently have. Again, Erickson sucks, but every team needs a long man. If RJ only goes 2 innings tonight and there's no long man, why should you be forced to burn up your pen heading into a new series?
2006-05-24 11:57:19
76.   Cliff Corcoran
71 First off, spring training, seriously? You're going to skip over the data from nearly 400 minor league innings and look instead at his 4 major league innings and 8 1/3 spring training innings, the latter of which likely came against minor league hitters anyway? Surely this is a put-on.

Nonetheless, you can see those numbers on Baseball Cube, click the BC link next to Bean's name on the sidebar.

As for Bean's age, he's Scott Proctor's age almost exactly, and should have made the team over Proctor in 2004 at age 27. Also, Bean was signed out of college, so he didn't hit the minors until he was 23.

2006-05-24 12:08:50
77.   Sliced Bread
Any word on Posada? I'm hoping he'll at least DH tonight since they're off tomorrow.
2006-05-24 12:10:40
78.   C2Coke
I still don't know about Bean, but I sure miss Matt Smith. If RJ as a left hand pitcher can have so many awful starting appearances thus far, why can't Smith have a few more chances is beyond anyone here. I know...I know...RJ has earned it with his long career...but if not given the chance, how is Smith ever going to earn anything?

Out of a 12-pitcher roster, it's quite amazing one can only feel at ease when Moose is pitching. There is always a tense factor when everyone else is on the mound.

2006-05-24 12:10:50
79.   Shaun P
75 I agree that the team needs a long man out of the pen, and that burning up the pen before a new series is generally a bad idea.

However, there's an off day tomorrow and Moose pitches on Friday, so I wouldn't be too concerned about how many relievers need to pitch tonight if Unit doesn't have it.

Don't forget that Villone has been a spot starter/starter/long man before, and could easily do so again.

Alternatively, in dire need, the Yanks could call up Darrell Rasner, who is a starter and could certainly handle the job as long man.

2006-05-24 12:15:42
80.   Cliff Corcoran
75 Actually, Villone has started as many as ten games as recently as 2004 and started all 19 of his games in 2003. He's your long man.
2006-05-24 12:15:53
81.   chris in c-bus
shaun p...
good point on villone...i guess i just get paranoia about the pen because Torre burns em up so bad every year (gordon, sturtze, stanton et al)...every appearance adds up when september/october hit in my opinion...that said, maybe Mendoza can fill Erickson's role so Erickson can take his rightful spot as a shoe shiner at LaGuardia...it is so embarassing that he's on our roster! I dont know about Rasner. I hate using guys in roles with which that are not paid for and/or maybe comfortable...
2006-05-24 12:17:04
82.   Dimelo
Rasner should be the option to start over Small.
2006-05-24 12:17:30
83.   chris in c-bus
shaun p, cliff,
even if villone can be the long man, should he be? I;m not saying yes/no, just asking. Seems to me he's more valuable as a reliever when the game is somewhat in doubt versus a long man especially when the only other lefty in the pen is really only going to face 1 batter. I dont know...this team drives me crazy.
2006-05-24 12:17:39
84.   C2Coke
81 It can't be as embarassing to STILL have Long on the roster, right?
2006-05-24 12:19:08
85.   C2Coke
83 Villon=Long man, Smith up=Erickson down, everyone=happy.
2006-05-24 12:20:00
86.   Dimelo
Wow...this is great stuff from Steve Lombardi.

http://www.waswatching.com/archives/2006/05/unit_counts.html

2006-05-24 12:20:47
87.   chris in c-bus
having Long on the roster is beyond embarrasing...i have a feeling he has pictures of torre with his finger in erickson's butt...
2006-05-24 12:21:45
88.   Cliff Corcoran
Oh, and I forgot about Mendoza, who is supposedly joining the team today. He started a pair of games in Columbus this year and could go long if needed. So . . .

R - Rivera
R - Farnsworth
R - Proctor
L - Myers
L - Smith
LL - Villone
LR - Mendoza

The lesser of Proctor and Smith could then be dropped when Dotel arrives, if not before in order to beef up the bench. Looks awful nice without Sturze or Erickson in there don't it?

2006-05-24 12:28:49
89.   chris in c-bus
Cliff..

is smith actually on the roster now? your list certainly does look better without Mr and Mrs Kerosene on it...

2006-05-24 12:29:30
90.   Cliff Corcoran
83 Villone is pitching over his head right now and good righties are better than mediocre lefties, note Rivera vs. Ortiz and Nixon last night. Yes, Villone should be the long man if Smith can be effective and Proctor can keep it up.

82 Absolutely, though it looks now like we might only have to see Small once in the rotation due to his being skipped this weekend. Incidentally, Small should get the boot along with Erickson. Which brings up an interesting question, with Mendoza coming up, Bean already gone, and Chacon due to bounce Small back to the pen, Small or Erickson will have to go when Chacon's activated around June 1, right? Right? Mendoza's got the Torre cred to bounce one of those guys, doesn't he?

2006-05-24 12:30:15
91.   Cliff Corcoran
89 No, I'm just dreaming.
2006-05-24 12:44:25
92.   rilkefan
90 - not to dispute that good righties trump middling lefites, but Mo is tougher on lefties anyway, isn't he?

I might use the Angels pen as an example to demonstrate your point.

2006-05-24 12:48:23
93.   BobbyBaseBall
90 I remember hearing a quote from Francona earlier this offseason. Something along the lines of "Why have a below-average lefty just to have a lefty in the pen."
2006-05-24 12:50:18
94.   Cliff Corcoran
92 Yes, which just goes to prove that the hand you throw with isn't everything. 93 Indeed, the Sox don't have a lefty in their pen.
2006-05-24 12:54:59
95.   Zack
Clearly there is no point in throwing stats at people, pointing out that a person's age doesn't really mean anything in terms of their reasons for not being on a club, or proving all those silly sayings totally false such as "at least he throws hard," or "he just doesn't look like a major leaguer." Oh well, all you Bean haters can be happy, you don't have to look at him anymore...
2006-05-24 13:05:28
96.   rilkefan
95 - I'm a Bean fan hoping we don't see him pitching against us...

Can't understand why the A's or whoever haven't offered to trade some hard-throwing but useless prospect for him.

2006-05-24 13:05:56
97.   chris in c-bus
Zack
Why do people have to be Bean haters if they dont share the same opinion that he's a "can't miss" guy? Do you think he's good because of his stats or because Cliff told you so? Just curious as to how you've formed your opinion of him...

as for my comment about proctor saying "at least he throws hard" was an inference that proctor now has the ability to change speeds and that's the one thing I think could hurt Bean at the major league level. From what I've seen he doesnt change speeds a whole lot although he's been very effective in the minors albeit much more effective in 04 than 05.

2006-05-24 13:08:17
98.   joejoejoe
29 Fred Vincy - Well done. I was shocked to see Erickson and Torre had played with the same player. I love seeing old baseball names (but not on the Yankees active roster).
2006-05-24 13:16:56
99.   randym77
The cover story of the USA Today sports section is about how lockers get assigned in MLB. I had no idea it was such a big deal.

Anyone know if there's a lockerroom chart for the Yankees anywhere online? I'm curious now about who's where.

I toured Heinz Field yesterday, including the Steelers' lockerroom. It was surprisingly spartan. No arguing over lockers there. They are assigned in strictly numerical order. If it means a rookie gets prime real estate while a superstar veteran does not, so be it.

2006-05-24 13:18:18
100.   chris in c-bus
as expected, Tito's got the lineup loaded with righties...hopefully RJ is ready to pitch with some confidence and get it done..

Tonight's complete Red Sox lineup:

1. Kevin Youkilis, 1B
2. Mark Loretta, 2B
3. David Ortiz, DH
4. Manny Ramirez, LF
5. Jason Varitek, C
6. Mike Lowell, 3B
7. Wily Mo Pena, CF
8. Dustan Mohr, RF
9. Alex Gonzalez, SS
-- Matt Clement, SP

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2006-05-24 13:18:47
101.   Dimelo
97 I agree. For example, when Paplebon first got called up last year for the Sawx...he pitched 5 innings and walked a ton of guys but struckout 8 or 10. I don't remember quite well, but I knew what all the fuss was about. This guy throws hard, he looks confident and looks like he should be up here. He was probably nervous given the high amount of walks, but you can see something. What that something is...I really don't know. I just knew the Sawx had something in Paps.

Now, given all the hype with Bean....when I first saw him pitch I just didn't see what all the fuss was about. I read what Cliff said and I understand where people are coming from, but something tells me that he's not going to be that good or that he'll help the Yanks. Again, given all the hype and the websites dedicated to Bean by Yankee fans...and given that most of us never saw him pitch before (like myself), weren't you expecting something more? Weren't you expecting some dominating force? All I know is that I saw why he hasn't been pitching in the majors. If he was as good as people say then he would have been playing a long time ago.

2006-05-24 13:23:53
102.   Schteeve
If I were a Yankee pitching prospect who got called up to the big team, here's what I would do: (in order of importance)

1) Throw strikes

Failing that:
2) Stare down a Red Sox hitter
3) Start a brawl with the Red Sox in which I got a black eye, but got a couple of good licks in
4) Refer to Joe as 'Mister Torre'

These are the things that will endear you to the skipper. If you don't do at least one of them, you're never going to be "full of guts" or "have a really big heart" or however Joe judges pitchers.

2006-05-24 13:24:32
103.   Dimelo
I just read this from Ken Rosenthal's latest column. I wonder if Tony Pena will persuade his son to come to the Yanks first.

---
The Yankees, Mets, Braves and Nationals are among the teams showing interest in catcher Francisco Pena, 16, the younger son of Yankees first-base coach Tony Pena. Francisco, a native of the Dominican Republic, is eligible to sign with a major-league club on July 2. Teams are attracted to his power, and Tony Pena told the Newark-Star Ledger that he didn't have as good an arm as Francisco at the same age. Pena's older son, Tony Jr., is the Braves' Class AAA shortstop.

2006-05-24 13:24:40
104.   wsporter
If this is already answered I appologize but I didn't see an explaination above, please just point me in the right direction.

In scanning the thread I saw that Bean was DFA'd today and see that's confirmed to the right. I don't understand and I'll readily admit I came to this late today, but why was Bean DFA'd? Was he out of options? There's no realistic hope to get him through waivers to get him back down. We aren't going to be able to trade him now. Does he really have zero value as far as the organization is concerned or at least less value than anyone else on the 40 man roster? Is there no notion of at least recouping some of the sunk cost invested in training the guy?

Man, whose corn flakes did he piss in?

2006-05-24 13:29:39
105.   yankaholic
porter, as i understand Bean is not out of options, meaning, the 10 day window is the way for Yanks to tell teams, well u say our defensive end err Bulloen guy.. do u wan him..

10 days pass.. he goes to AAA

someone puts a stupid claim.. Yanks can outright him..

coz he aint got enuf service time..

i maybe wrong..

2006-05-24 13:29:41
106.   YankeeInMichigan
What about Proctor as a long man? He has 4 pitches and pitched a strong 5 innings (handling everyone except Dave Delucci) in a start last year.
2006-05-24 13:29:49
107.   Schteeve
104 The Yankees organization is not what anyone would call "patient with rookies."

But let's see if he clears waivers.

2006-05-24 13:29:54
108.   C2Coke
101 I kinda know what you are saying I feel the same way about Wang. When I saw Wang last year, there is that something. Although he needs to be more consistent, yet when he is in the groove we can all sit back and enjoy a great game.
2006-05-24 13:31:47
109.   C2Coke
102 Somehow I have a feeling Wang does #4 on your list really well, the rest...
2006-05-24 13:33:22
110.   yankaholic
Do we all remember Sean henn?? Is this guy a decent prospect, him being a lefty is enticing..

i know he got his rear busted against Tampa last year.. but is he a genuine prospect??

How come u guys expect Rasner to trumph Henn in a call?? Is Rasner that good (i saw his numbers in 3A .. impressive..)

Is Sean Henn an option??

2006-05-24 13:34:55
111.   wsporter
104 D, The Yankees had another kid catcher in this spring named Jesus Montero who is a catcher and ranked, in some places, as the number 1 international free agent. He's also 16. The Yankees were impressed by him from what I read. I haven't seen anything about where he might sign. Anyone have any news on him?

Looking at the draft and what's available there as well as upcoming free agency we may have a decent backup who is capable of taking over in place by the time Jorge is 40.

2006-05-24 13:36:07
112.   Schteeve
109 I think Wang throws strikes at a pretty decent rate.
2006-05-24 13:36:14
113.   wsporter
111 ah, thats 103 oops.
2006-05-24 13:37:40
114.   C2Coke
111 Then perhaps tonight Jorge really needs some rest. He's still got a long time to go.
2006-05-24 13:40:31
115.   C2Coke
112 Yes, I forgot that part, I was only referring to the rest of the three options.
2006-05-24 13:41:39
116.   wsporter
107 Was he out of options? I don't think he was. So why do it that way unless they needed room on the 40 man. Move Pavano to the 60 day DL if that was the case, problem solved. Why take the chance if he does have value?

Big fat guys who soft toss and compulsively lick their right hands just can't get a break. What a world.

2006-05-24 13:42:44
117.   chris in c-bus
henn hasnt been great or terrible for the clippers so far this year but he's barely pitched...he's 2-0 in 3 starts but his ERA is 5.11 and he's given up 15 hits in 12.1 IP...does have 10Ks and only 2BBs. I havent seen any of his starts this year and I'm not sure if he's been hurt but he must have been to only have 3 starts..
2006-05-24 13:45:43
118.   chris in c-bus
matt smith was recalled to NY today according to clippers site...was this known to everyone and I just missed it?
2006-05-24 13:46:39
119.   randym77
I don't understand why they DFA'd Bean. He was not out of options. They have room on the 40-man roster. The only thing I can figure is they don't want him on the 40-man roster.
2006-05-24 13:46:48
120.   chris in c-bus
yankaholic:
also about henn..he was put on 7 day DL back on 4/17 but I dont know what for..
2006-05-24 13:54:16
121.   domvjr
Yanks lineup for tonight.

1. Cabrera RF
2. Jeter SS
3. Sheffield DH
4. Giambi 1B
5. A-Rod 3B
6. Cano 2B
7. Bernie CF
8. Long LF
9. Stinnett C

2006-05-24 13:55:13
122.   wsporter
117 Yeah he's been DL'd for a while. Look at the Clips Transaction list at their site. Duncan was DL'd on the 17th as well I think.
2006-05-24 13:56:39
123.   wsporter
[120} Damn I'm having a bad day, I just saw you put that up. Sorry.

They are really tight lipped about that stuff.

2006-05-24 13:57:28
124.   yankaholic
chris in c-bus:

thx for the info on Henn..

So they wised up and called Smith?? Good..

2006-05-24 14:00:24
125.   randym77
118 I didn't know that. Very cool.

121 Long again? Nooooooo....

2006-05-24 14:00:58
126.   YankeeInMichigan
True, Bean's performance in his two outings was less than impressive, but the rest of the bullpen has been no better. Here is how the relievers have fared in their last few appearances (sizes of samples are tailored to show the worst results):

-----------IP---H---BB---WHIP---HR---K
Bean-------2.0--2---2----2.0----0----1
Erickson---4.2--1---6----1.5----1----1
Farnsworth-5.0--4---5----1.8----0----6
Proctor----5.0--6---4----2.0----2----4
Myers------3.0--4---2----2.0----1----2
Villone----4.0--1---5----1.5----0----2
Rivera-----4.1--5---1----1.4----0----5

2006-05-24 14:01:39
127.   chris in c-bus
wsporter...good call...thats where I finally went to see what henn's story way...my pop had seasons tickets since '79 and we went to 60+ games a year through early 90's, but now that I'm old and have to work for a living, I dont make it out to cooper stadium until it gets a little warmer...the new stadium downtown that will be ready in 2008 will increase my attendance again...meeting Mattingly at one of those on-field clinics in 82 when I was 9 and his subsequent call up is what made me a yankee fan...
2006-05-24 14:02:33
128.   wsporter
105 Hey man I didn't see that. My understanding is that once he's DFA he must pass through waivers in order to actually be assigned to a minor league club by the club that made the designation whether he has options remaining or not. I could easily be wrong on this. I'm working with a faulty memory.

I have to admit the scenario you paint makes more sense from the Yankees POV. I hope you're right.

2006-05-24 14:09:37
129.   C2Coke
116 Cliff mentioned that too. Besides Pavano, Sturtze and Matsui can also be moved to 60 day DL.
2006-05-24 14:10:10
130.   Bill
121 Are you making that up?
2006-05-24 14:11:30
131.   wsporter
127 I live in the DC area and can usually only get to see them when they come through Richmond and Norfolk.

We get a lot of good MiLB around here. It's a great atmosphere for the kids and the ball is pretty good too.

That's a neat story about Mattingly. So I guess you saw all the guys now who came through the system. I think it makes it more enjoyable if you can follow these guys as they grow into major leaguers.

2006-05-24 14:12:23
132.   yankaholic
128 Porter, i may have over-simplified, we need the experts to weigh in..

but i was checking the Columbus clippers transactions and for "today" it says Colter has been "optioned from NY"

does that mean he aint DFA'd no more??

Interestingly, they have spelled it Colter "BEEN"..

2006-05-24 14:13:35
133.   C2Coke
So Damon and Posada are both just resting, right??

Melky's definitely earned his chance to have a little leadoff appearance, but Long again?????

2006-05-24 14:14:27
134.   C2Coke
Dear Crosby:

Please heal fast...

2006-05-24 14:14:38
135.   randym77
130 It's for real.

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/

2006-05-24 14:16:21
136.   Bill
The lineup makes me think of Casey's remark to his barber: "Don't cut my throat. I'm gonna wanna do that myself later"
2006-05-24 14:17:48
137.   randym77
Posada hurt his knee last night. He stayed in the game, applying heat between innings.

I assume it's Damon's broken foot that's his issue.

2006-05-24 14:18:35
138.   wsporter
132 Yeah he's also on their Internet roster now although I can't be sure he was actually removed from the roster that appears at the Clips site when he was called up. WTF?

I can't believe they would just give him away. I must be wrong or something else must be in play. It would make no sense.

2006-05-24 14:18:58
139.   Rob Gee
gfhioafns Long awswcd Long sqwocns Long aSHXASKDFG lNGEHDSF Long wahcnks Long aeodhksv Long fohlsdsh Long shjkdsfvhns Long HXdsvds Long deifdc
2006-05-24 14:19:38
140.   C2Coke
So Torre is more unsure of Sheff's health than Long in the OF when RJ is pitching?

Maybe I will just check back in the 7th inning. After all, I've spent the extra money on watching mlb.tv buffer...can't afford blood pressure lowering medicine anymore.

2006-05-24 14:21:39
141.   chris in c-bus
wsporter...
yeah, I am very lucky that my pop was a huge baseball fan...he probably only missed 10 games in over 10 years of having season tix...We saw all the future stars come through..our seats were right behind the dugout so it was a sweet deal...when my pop passed the clippers even planted a tree in his memory outside the stadium by the ticket office..mattingly was my favorite and was a heck of a left fielder before they moved him to 1B...Steve Balboni was also a personal favorite because he hit those mammoth homers...most of my favorites never really did anything in the bigs...tucker ashford, marshall brant, otis nixon and rex hudler to name a few...booing Deion every at bat was another highlight of those days...I remember my pop guaranteeing mattingly would be a star
2006-05-24 14:24:47
142.   Mattpat11
74 I bring up his spring trainings because its the only other time he's seen major league hitters. (I asked for the ST numbers because by the way people were acting, I was beginning to think I was wrong about them)

My point is that EVERYTIME he's seen major league hitters, he's looked really bad. He was bad this time up, he was bad with a huge lead last time up, he was bad in three straight STs.

Eventually I have to sit here, factor that in, factor in the whole rule five thing, and say "Well, maybe there isn't a great conspiracy against Colter Bean."

2006-05-24 14:27:39
143.   randym77
139 ROFL. Rob, you really crack me up.

And I share your pain, believe me.

I'm starting to wish they hadn't DLed Bubba. I mean, since they aren't using the outfielders they called up from Columbus, anyway. (Except Long.) They were expecting Bubba to be "playable" by today, but he's stuck on the DL until June 3.

2006-05-24 14:34:32
144.   wsporter
141 CnC, Have you seen Duncan at all. There was some talk about trying to leave him alone and let him hit to the gaps. I know he started slow and hit a hot streak of sorts then cooled off again. Do you have a scouting report on him?

Do you have any good news for Rob G about anyone at C-bus? We're all becoming just a little concerned, you know, what with this Long thing and all.

2006-05-24 14:51:47
145.   Mattpat11
139 Is there really anyone else we could use?
2006-05-24 14:53:45
146.   chris in c-bus
wsporter:
I havent been out to the park yet this year since I recently moved about 40 min from downtown to a new house but when June hits I can usually persuade my fiance to go have a few beers and catch 5 or 6 innings so I hope to give some meaningful info to everyone in the coming months. With so many of the somewhat decent players already called up to NY there isnt much left to look at. Offensively, Duncan hasnt dont anything this year. Cabrera was on fire and Thompson was doing okay but Reese is struggling. Pitching wise, Rasner has been good but Henn is hurt and and we already know Matt Smith just got promoted and Bean is in limbo. From what I have seen, I dont think there are any long term yankee contributors on the clippers roster with the exception of Matt Smith and Melky Cabrera although I've never seen Duncan play so who knows about him and Kevin Thompson could eventually have a Bubba Crosby like role on future teams. I get the feeling Duncan is gonna be nothing but hype like Bam Bam Meulens. I only saw Matt Smith once last year so I have no real thoughts on him - just know his numbers look good and he's a lefty so he's more likely to get a chance in NY.

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