Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
Takin' It Easy
2006-05-17 20:17
by Cliff Corcoran
Note: The Bronx Banter blog has moved to

Tuesday night's epic triple-comeback classic lasted three hours and 49 minutes and saw six Yankee pitchers throw a total of 165 pitches. Last night, Chien-Ming Wang and Mariano Rivera set the Rangers down with a mere 95 tosses in a mere two hours and 34 minutes. If not for a two bad pitches by Chien-Ming Wang in the eighth and a trio of errors by the right side of the Yankee infield earlier in the game, the 4-3 win would have been about as tidy a game as one could ask for after Tuesday night's glorious mess.

The Yanks took an early lead in the bottom of the first when Derek Jeter reached on an infield single, was pushed to second by an eight-pitch walk to DH Jason Giambi, moved to third on an Alex Rodriguez fly out to right and was plated by Tuesday night's hero, Jorge Posada.

Working with alarming efficiency, Wang managed to get into and out of a third inning jam on nine pitches (single, single, line-out, double play), but ran into trouble in the fourth when Robinson Cano botched a play at second base for the first of his two errors on the night. After Mark Teixeira grounded out to Cano to start the inning, Phil Nevin drew a five-pitch walk. Hank Blalock then hit a sharp grounder to Alex Rodriguez's left that the Yankee third baseman managed to stab and shovel to second to force out Nevin. Cano, thinking of turning another inning-ending double play, took the throw coming across the bag, but dropped the ball while making the transfer to his throwing hand. Not only that, but in his haste to turn the DP, came too far across the bag to get the neighborhood call, a situation likely exacerbated by his flubbing the transfer. Nevin was called safe and Kevin Mench followed with an RBI single on the next pitch before Wang struck out Brad Wilkerson on three more throws.

Cano literally booted another ball in the top of the fifth, but another DP grounder erased his baserunner and Wang pounced on a Gary Matthews Jr. bunt to get out of the inning on just seven pitches. The Yanks then sprung into action with two outs in the fifth when another eight-pitch Giambi at-bat ended in a flared double to left center. Alex Rodriguez followed with his second infield single of the game, this one ticking off the end of Hank Blalock's glove in the shortstop hole (the first was a Baltimore chop Alex beat out). That brought up Posada, who again delivered an RBI single. Cano and Bernie Williams followed with RBI singles past Mark DeRosa into right before Andy Phillips threw his bat at a 2-2 pitch to ground into an inning-ending fielder's choice.

Wang continued to cruise from there, needing eight pitches in the sixth--with Cano narrowly avoiding another error on the first out (as in the fifth, he didn't stay down on a grounder right to him), before turning yet another inning-ending double play--and eight more in the seventh, thanks to a terrific spin play by Jeter ranging behind second. Incidentally, Andy Phillips, who committed the first error of the game in the first, made difficult picks at first on both the sixth-inning double play and Jeter's spin-throw in the seventh.

In the eighth, Wang got DeRosa to ground out on his second pitch, but then gave up a double to Gerald Laird and a two-run homer to Matthews on his next two offerings to bring the Rangers within a run. He then needed just seven more pitches to get Michael Young and Teixeira to ground out to end the inning, ending his night having thrown 68 percent of a mere 81 pitches for strikes across eight innings of work. Mariano Rivera, pitched a 1-2-3 ninth to wrap things up.

In other news, Carl Pavano threw just nine pitches in his third rehab start, his second with double-A Trenton, failing to answer the bell for the second inning because of tightness in the triceps of his pitching arm. Pavano left his previous start nearly 30 pitches shy of his allotted total due to bicep soreness, which was categorized as typical spring training soreness. Confusingly, roving pitching instructor Rich Monteleone described the problem as "soreness from his forearm, also his triceps . . . where he had it last time."

Pavano, whose rehab clock fittingly expires on June 6 (6/6/6) was expected to throw 90 pitches last night, make one more rehab start on Monday and then rejoin the team, likely making his first start in the last series of the month in Detroit. Now Joe Torre, has said that Pavano is likely headed back to Tampa, and that the setback "stops [the rehab assignment] short." Indeed, given these two setbacks, even if the soreness is insignificant Pavano won't be able to get his pitch count up to where it needs to be by June 6. Pavano's last major league start came on June 27 of last year and he was initially expected to be out for the minimum 15 days. He's now on the verge of having been out of commission for a full calendar year without having had surgery, broken or torn anything. Remarkable.

Speaking of sore starters, the Yankees are considering starting Aaron Small in place of Shawn Chacon on Sunday. Chacon took a comebacker off his left shin (his landing leg) against the Red Sox last week and it's believed that the resulting bruise has caused him to alter his mechanics, resulting in his poor showing in that game and the disaster start that set the stage for Tuesday's comeback. The Yankees will have the hematoma ultrasounded today with thoughts of draining it, and have instructed Chacon to lighten his workouts and stay off the leg as much as possible.

The Yankees finish their series with the Rangers today sending Jaret Wright up against Vincente Padilla, whose worst start of the year came against the Yanks in Texas. Fittingly, Wright will be making his eighteenth start as a Yankee, surpassing Pavano's pinstriped total. Go figure that the guy who failed his physical would turn out to be the better signing of the two (faint praise to say the least). At least the entire blogging/sabermetric community didn't see this sort of thing coming. Oh wait, we did.

Comments (396)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-05-17 23:47:23
1.   Yu-Hsing Chen
ROFL, great peice...

BTW, after the Boston series there would be a offday, and that might be a good time to do a quoter review of the Yankees and maybe the rest of the league?

2006-05-18 00:04:54
2.   bloodyank78
You're very dope at summing things up in an informative and perfect way for this Yankee fan. The news about Meat really seals the deal for me. What the Fu*k?!! Is he really that fragile? The guy is like a Faberge Egg. Whatever; it's not like his presence has ever been felt anyway. That said, I feel Wright may be better than everyone suspects. He is still unpredictable, but I have a good feeling about him. If I'm wrong, fling the derogratory comments to Bloodyank78.
2006-05-18 03:26:18
3.   randym77
Very nice summary.

I'm glad it was a fairly low-key game. I don't think I could take games like Tuesday's every day.

Though it was amusing to see all the Yankee gear everyone was wearing the next day. Most of it so brand-new it practically glowed.

2006-05-18 04:05:42
4.   murphy
being proactive here:

can we not spend the day worrying and whining about cano's errors? let us not forget his spectacular plays this past weekend.

it looks like wang has really hit that groove he was in when he first came up last year. did posada find out he was tipping his sinker? ; )

2006-05-18 04:11:34
5.   singledd
I would like to officially declare Tuesday's game as the GREATEST (not one of the) comebacks in Yankee history (are at least in my knowledge as a fan from 1965).

Aside from the obvious 9 run deficit:
1) It happened before we even had a single run (the 9 run deficit)
2) It happened at Home, Yankee Stadium.
3) It happened after Rivera gave up the winning run (a rare event in itself).
4) After taking the lead, we gave it up again twice, and came back twice. The opposition score FOUR runs AFTER the initial 9.
5) We were missing 3 of our 4 top power hitters.
6) Posada could have easily been taken out to literally 'have his head examined'.
7) Had what was posted by BB as 'one of the worst offensive lineups' seen in a while.
8) While it is very early, we are in a pennant race with Boston (last year ended in a tie... every win was critial, every loss cost us Home team advantage in the PS).
9) Our LF'er threw out a man at 3rd AND one at Home.
10) ALL 14 runs we got were 'earned'. No sloppy play to help us.
11) Only one substitution/pinch hitter/pinch runner then entire game. 10 position players did all the work.
12) Ended with a walk off HR, with 2 out in the 9th.
13) Most of us were crying and somewhat suicidal seconds before Posada won it.

Looking at the confluence of events, was that game even possible?

The GREATEST comeback in Yankee history.
I stand my ground.

2006-05-18 04:24:30
6.   jkay
Help is on the way........

As insurance for their uncertain outfield situation, the Yankees are close to inking Terrence Long to a minor-league contract and adding him to the 40-man roster.

The club recently designated Triple-A infielder Felix Escalona for assignment and put him on waivers, knocking him off the 40-man.

The 30-year-old Long, a lefty hitter, played with the Royals last season and was recently released by Cincinnati's Triple-A club.

2006-05-18 04:33:43
7.   randym77
4 I read somewhere that Guidry tried to teach Wang a new grip for his sinker this year. It just wasn't working, so he went back to his old grip. And his old form...
2006-05-18 04:57:20
8.   sabernar
Terrence long is help? I really hope that you're being sarcastic on that comment, jkay. Long has been washed up for sometime.

What do we have to do to trade for Craig Wilson?

2006-05-18 05:10:23
9.   rbj
4 Murphy I'll cut Cano slack on the first error, all ballplayers rush plays a times resulting in errors. The second and third (which her recovered in time) I'll put down to a bad day at the office. Larry Bowa might not be so charitable.

Great performance by CMW. Just what the BP needed, and yet another reason why we don't trade him for anyone (Santana's having an off year and Willis's arm mechanics frighten me injury-wise).

Pavano is rapidly reaching Kevin Brown status for me. On the other hand you have Chacon trying to pitch through something and winds up hurting the team (see also, Sturtze, Tanyon). At this point Pavano is useless even as trade bait for a bucket of used balls.

2006-05-18 05:49:13
10.   bp1
9 Pavano would have to come back this year and go 10-7 to match Kevin Brown's record with the Yankees. KB was 10-6 w/ a 4.09 his first year with the Yankees and 14-13 overall. Meat stands at 4-6.

Not that I'm saying Kevin Brown was a tremendous success in his time with the Yankees (cough cough). Just trying to put Meat into proper perspective.


2006-05-18 05:50:41
11.   unpopster
A few days ago I was about ready to post my proclamation that Pavano would be the suprise player of the remainder of this season. He pitched exceptionally well in his last AA start (BEFORE he left with the tricep*?* injury) and it sounded like Joe Brian CashTorre were sounding optomistic about his chances of making a significant contribution to this team.

Like most of you I am now ready to forget all about him. As far as I'm concerned, Carl is dead to me and if he ever does throw a single pitch for the '06 Yanks, it'd be a single pitch more than I expect from him.

Having said all that, it now means that the Yanks have to be in the market for another starting pitcher. We don't know what Unit has left in the tank, Chacon and Wang are good-but-not-great, Wright is an enigma, and how many of us us really believe that Moose will keep up this Cinderella story for the whole 6-month trek?

I'm not really too interested in Roger unless it means we keep him away from Boston. So, I ask all of you, can we start to speculate on who is available this year?

D-Train Willis?

2006-05-18 06:06:58
12.   wsporter
10 I know Alex came up with the moniker "Meat" for Pavano and that it works on a certain visceral level but is there any chance that, due to Pavano's complete absence from the mix, we could refer to him as "Meat-less". I mean he's just not there. We wouldn't have to view it simply as an anatomical reference but could also consider the term from a culinary point of view.
2006-05-18 06:19:53
13.   unpopster
12 or better yet, maybe he should just be referred to as "The Vegan"
2006-05-18 06:38:42
14.   jedi
11 wasn't kyle lohse's name being brought up along with stewart, hunter as being part of a firesale if the twins were out of the hunt by allstar break? I think he is better than his numbers predict and is young enough to take a chance on. Maybe we can get him for cheap.
2006-05-18 06:42:54
15.   Rob Gee
12 Personally, I love the Meat name. To me it conveys, exactly what he is - a slab of Meat. No heart, just Meat. No stats, just Meat. No real use, just Meat.

Just saw this morning that Roger could be in line for 4mil a month - the highest paid pitcher ever for each start.

Now, I'm not sure about other injury cases, but Meat could just win that prize by the time this bloated contract is up.

BTW: If you count, Shef, Matsui, and Meat - that's 36 mil on the shelf right now.

Amazing really.

2006-05-18 06:53:09
16.   ChuckM
Did anybody hear Singleton talking last night about asking all the former catchers on the Yanks coaching staff who hit them the hardest on a play at the plate? Good stuff. Apparently Tony Pena also told him the best way to keep from getting hurt on those plays is to stay down low to the ground to enable the runner to kind of roll over you as you absorb the blow. Makes sense since you don't want to take a shoulder/elbow under the chin and get knocked stooopid for a week...
2006-05-18 06:56:23
17.   bp1
16 Which makes Jeter's throw a good one (nod to yesterday's discussion).


2006-05-18 06:56:37
18.   Rob Gee
16 Of course, that's assuming you're already down to your knees trying to corrale a ridiculously weak throw...

Silly me, the genius of that throw was to get Jorge "down low to the ground to enable the runner to kind of roll over" him.

2006-05-18 06:58:22
19.   Dimelo
Rob, it might be 36 mil on the shelf...but at least Shef and Matsui are suffering through legitimate injuries. Vito from The Sopranos is more manly than Pavano. What a big f'ing poon that guy is. I was irked at reading that this morning. I kinda wished I didn't even read it....even though Brown was a head case, at least he had some desire to succeed.

Big ass punk, "Hey coach, my arm is a little tight. You mind if I stop pitching so I can go play with my Ken doll". Get rid of him already..

2006-05-18 06:58:30
20.   Zavo
Pavano has been out so long I really don't know that his continued absense really impacts the team.

I had completely given up on the guy coming back, but then the results from his last AA start got me slightly excited that he might help the team this year - shame on me.

As Cliff said, out almost a year without a tear, break or surgery. I didn't think that was possible.

Sure, we have some question marks in the rotation, but Moose has been great, Wang has been excellent of late, I have faith in a healthy Chacon, Unit is going to start regardless of how bad he pitches. That leaves Wright and Small for the 5th spot and possible injury replacement. I know Small has been miserable but maybe he can turn it around as a starter. If not, Darrell Rasner seems to be doing a really nice job in Columbus and he might be able to help the team if needed.

At this point I am goint forward believing Pavano won't be coming back this season. If he does and pitches well, that will just be a bonus.

2006-05-18 07:01:24
21.   Shaun P
6 Please tell me you're joking, jay. Long is worse than a pitching staff filled with clones of Meatless, Erickson, and Sturtze. I'd rather have Tony Womack playing LF than Long - at least Tony could steal a base.

Shoot, I'd rather have Kevin Brown in the OF than Terrance Long.

Long is so bad that Kansas City - the worst organization in baseball! - cut him, fercryinoutloud!

murphy 4, is it OK to get hysterical over this? Because I think I already have.

BTW Rob 12, if the Yanks sign Long, and then promote him to the majors and give him playing time, you will have added me to your list of Cashman unbelievers. Terrance Long is unexcusable.

2006-05-18 07:07:06
22.   standuptriple
12 I prefer to think of him as tofu. I like meat.
2006-05-18 07:16:22
23.   Paul in Boston
I don't think Pavano is the worst free agent signing of a pitcher in recent history. Chan Ho Park and Darren Dreifort were both worse, I'm pretty sure.

Any other competitors for this prize out there? Eric Milton with the Reds? Nah. Neagle to the Rockies? Maybe ...

2006-05-18 07:19:37
24.   Cliff Corcoran
21 Alarmingly it's true. Or at least it's true that the Post has reported that. The same article includes this on Sheff:

"Gary Sheffield (contusion and sprain of the left wrist and hand) caught some balls during BP for the first time yesterday, and Torre thought he might take some dry swings with a bat soon.

"Gary Sheffield (contusion and sprain of the left wrist and hand) caught some balls during BP for the first time yesterday, and Torre thought he might take some dry swings with a bat soon. Sheffield told his manager he's feeling better. He told a PR person he has no timetable for swinging a bat. He's eligible to return this weekend. Torre told him the Yanks would want him to play in at least one rehab game."

2006-05-18 07:21:05
25.   Rob Gee
19 I'm not sure 'legitimate injury' explains every case. Shef could be playing. He just doesn't want to. It's his right - but I'm not sure he's DL hurt though I'm only going by his words. It's not a bad time to rest though.

And Matsui, I'm not buying it. He still managed to throw the ball back into the infield one-handed. I just think we wanted the streak to end and this was a good excuse.

2006-05-18 07:27:20
26.   wsporter
6 21 In 15 games with the Louisville Bats , in 48 at bats, Terrence Long managed a stellar .229 batting average a .260 OBP and a .292 SLG he struck out 10 times and walked twice. He did manage to score 2 whole runs. Some good stuff there from the always outstanding Mr. Long.

I cannot imagine he makes it to the Bronx before ANY outfield candidate that was on the Columbus Clippers roster as of Tuesday midnight. That may extend to anyone on the roster of the Trenton Thunder as well. They will call up Bret Gardner from Tampa before Long plays in the Bronx (by the way has anyone watched what he has been doing this spring?). Hell, one of us might get called up before Long does.

They need bodies done below at the AAA level to replace what they sent to the majors. I hope that's all this is about. In Cashman's words "Inventory".

2006-05-18 07:33:34
27.   unpopster
23 right now, it's looking like the A.J. Burnett signing up in Toronto is a candidate.
2006-05-18 07:38:14
28.   Shawn Clap
WHOA! Within five minutes of the Matusi injury I made the Terrence Long call.

Post #70. Creepy. Had I known someone were listening, I'd have asked for something much nicer.

2006-05-18 07:38:57
29.   Cliff Corcoran
23 Chan Ho Park was signed for $70 mil/5 yrs. He started 48 games for the Rangers over the first three years of the deal and was thoroughly below average when healthy. Last year he started 20 games for Texas with a 79 ERA+ before being traded to the Padres at the deadline for Phil Nevin. He then made nine more starts for San Diego with a 65 ERA+. He's been healthy and effective thus far this season, the final year of his deal.

Dreifort was signed for $55/5 years. He didn't throw a pitch in the first year of that deal, started was dead league average in ten starts in year two, was below average in 60 games in relief in year three and never pitched again.

Pavano signed for $39.95 mil/4 years. He made 17 starts in year one with a 93 ERA+.

That's a close race, though I think Dreifort still takes the cake.

2006-05-18 07:40:27
30.   wsporter
25 Yeah Rob and Dillinger faked that head wound so he didn't have to rob any more banks.
2006-05-18 07:41:26
31.   wsporter
Didn't all or most of those guys show up ready for work and able to pitch? At least they gave innings.

We have an alarming number of these guys in the rotation or out of the pen in recent years. Not all free agents but also trades that didn't pan out where we added lots of unproductive salary.

You can really see Rob's POV on the GM when you look at it from that perspective. I'm still willing to assign most of this to Tampa, other than Pavano

2006-05-18 07:44:09
32.   Cliff Corcoran
Curious notes on Pavano's contract from the fantastic Cot's Baseball Contracts:

*Pavano may void option by reaching appearance levels (200 IP in 2008 or 400 IP 2007-08), but no buyout is paid

More importantly, Rob Gee take note:

*no-trade clause


2006-05-18 07:44:55
33.   murphy
pavano is the reason that guaranteed contracts aren't always a good idea. i am no expert, but this has got to be part mental.
2006-05-18 07:46:39
34.   Rob Gee
24 The worst part is I think how the organization is managed. They don't promote fast enough and they hold onto guys that only clog the pipeline.

For instance, is there any reason why Gardner is still in Tampa and Christian is in Trenton? Really they both haven't proven their value already?

What's the risk? You're not going to ruin great players by rushing them. If they're that fragile they don't belong with the big club any ways.

Of course, the situation is so much worse when it comes to the pitching. Terrance Long meet Scott Erickson.

2006-05-18 07:47:27
35.   yankaholic
Plz no to D-Train.. i always cringe when i see his high leg-kick.. to me he is "this much" away from being a chronic hamstring injury candidate.. i also think he may run into some back problems.. his delivery is too violent to be comfortable..

With Zito, IF we get him, count Yanks to sign an extension.. but Do we want to get him? He's been an AL guy and hes decent but hes falling off and quick..

TRUTH is theres not one guy that is a sure shot.. that includes ROGER.. remember his hamstring problems last year?.. he came out of a WS game right??..

2006-05-18 07:48:07
36.   Cliff Corcoran
34 I bet both of those guys get promoted in June, that's when most of those sort of promotions happen.
2006-05-18 07:54:39
37.   murphy
26, i am with you on promoting ANY of the columbus OF before guys like long; but as we learned with erickson, we only allow players who have major league experience on the field. we all got so excited lat year with wang and cano. we thought it was a new wave of thinking in the FO, but it looks like it may have been the anomaly. torre liked sturtze cos he had major league experince. he chooses bernie over melky. cairo over phillips. erickson over rasner, et. al. there is part of me that want to see this team fail miserably and have a fire-sale just to see some young blood on the field.
2006-05-18 07:57:39
38.   Rob Gee
32 I'm 90% certain Mr Cot is wrong on that. I can't imagine for that money, he also gets a no-trade. I'd be shocked really. Plus, the GM could have used that as reason for not moving him this winter. He never did.

31 If Pavano was Tampa, then the GM could have easily undone that in some way. He never made an effort even though some initial rumors were there.

2006-05-18 08:08:54
39.   wsporter
38 I thought Pavano was a Cashman deal. Maybe I'm wrong on that?

I seem to remember that Pavano did not get a No Trade. At the Unoficial MLB site they make no mention of a No Trade. If he does have one is it limited? Wow, I can't immagine how he got that kind of money and a no trade. Did his agent do it with a gun? My word.

2006-05-18 08:10:44
40.   Rob Gee
36 Actually for Christian I was thinking of Justin - he's 26 in AA and not hitting a lick. Why is he still in the organization? Why not bump up Gardner and Tabata at once? What do they have left to prove?

Agree though on June - they'll draft guys and need spots for them.

But did they really need this long to evaluate Escalona? Why not cut the dead branches every year? Now they're going to sign Long. Why not bump Faison to AAA? He's sure going to do at least as well as Long.

It sends an entirely different message to the kids working their butts off for that one chance in the show. "If you play well, you'll advance." Rather than: "Even if you play well, Terrance Long and Scott Erickson will get their umpteenth chance before you do".

The real problem is they can't figure out what to do with Phillips, Bean, Rasner, Johnson, Jones, etc. What's the plan for any of these guys?

2006-05-18 08:17:23
41.   Rob Gee
39 Sorry missed your 'other than' qualification in 31. I seem to remember arguing with a bunch of folks that Meat was Tampa too.

While we can argue about past moves, I'm taking the GM at face value this year.

Every move made goes by him.

Any one else want to argue he's better than mediocre? I might start saying soon he's worse than that.

BTW: Jake Westbrook pitched a CG yesterday. He's certainly not an ace, but it helps to realize, the one trade everyone holds up as the pinnacle of the GM's abilities looks worse and worse as time passes. Three ML'ers for one-half season of Justice.

2006-05-18 08:20:54
42.   wsporter
34 Rob I agree on Gardner. The guy is just tearing apart what is normally a very tough pitchers league in Florida. Christian, an un-drafted pickup, is potentially a great story. He has been doing a lot of really good things in Trenton but his bat hit a bit of a cold stretch for about a month. He's just starting to find his stroke again. So I think leaving him alone for a bit is probably the right thing to do. But Gardner needs to head north. Sardinah, with Christian and Gardner would be a nice little outfield. Not much home run pop but those two would be on base all day driving people nuts.
2006-05-18 08:30:14
43.   Shaun P
41 You know Rob, as much as I'm coming over to your side re: Cashman, without Justice there is no 2000 World Serious flag. Flags fly forever, and so I think the Justice deal was well worth it.

Its also worth nothing that:
Justice was traded for Ventura
Ventura was traded for Boone
Boone played basketball, leading to:
Soriano for A-Rod

So if you look at it as Sori, Ledee, Westbrook, and Zach Day (who sucks) for A-Rod, I make that deal every day of the week, and twice on Sunday. Plus the lack of Sori lead to Womack which led to Cano . . .

Now you obviously can't credit Cashman for somehow seeing this all in advance, but I'm just saying - picking on the Justice trade is no way to convince us that you're right on Cash.

BTW, Westbrook is a big groundball pitcher - do you think he would have had nearly as much success with the Yanks porous infield defense behind him? If he was even given a chance.

2006-05-18 08:30:37
44.   Cliff Corcoran
40 Escalona had a very good year in triple A at age 25 in 2004. Last year he fell off a bit, but also got a cup of coffee and picked up four hits and a walk in 15 trips including a game-winning hit. I actually argued that he was the minimum wage equivalent of Cairo this offseason. Of course, I've always prefered Russ Johnson, and it looks like Johnson being on fire and Felix cold as ice (increasing the need to sacrifice) has made Felix's 40-man spot available for others. Of course Johnson isn't on the 40-man either and he's cooled off quite a bit.

Not sure what the logic behind DFAing Escalona is, really, because the Yanks already had an open spot on the 40-man, even after adding Erickson, and could easily put Matsui or Sturtze, or maybe even Pavano on the 60-day DL to clear even more room. That said, I've not seen any confirmation of the Escalona move elsewhere, so I'm not convinced it actually happened. Not that it really matters.

As for Mitch Jones, there is no plan, he's sub-Andy Phillips in every way, so unless Andy starts raking, there's no reason for them to even look at Jones. Also, Jones and Johnson have cooled off considerably. I'm confident that Rasner will get his shot due to injury at some point this year. Andy's getting his best chance now with the line-up depleated and Giambi's neck limiting him to DH. Bean will never get his chance, which is a crime.

2006-05-18 08:31:23
45.   wsporter
40 Rob, I was busy typing when you posted your 40 comments. I have to say that I disagree on Tabata who is 17 years old and one of the youngest players in the SALLY. Right now he is a top hitter in the league statistically. There is so much more he needs to learn than that. He is exactly where he needs to be in Charelston. They've got a nice support structure set up for younger guys there. He's a longer term guy in that they are looking at him as a cornerstone player. I think they want to be careful and make sure he's ready to take on more mature players before they bump him up. Keeping him there with Henry and Jackson makes a lot of long term sense if he's going to develop into what they think he can be.
2006-05-18 08:37:44
46.   Cliff Corcoran
43 Ventura was traded for Crosby/Proctor. Boone came over for Brandon Claussen. I was more outraged by the Ventura deal than the Boone deal at the time. I thought Boone would do a decent job (he didn't), but also thought Ventura would be a very valuable lefty pinch-hitter in the postseason. I still believe the latter. Remember, when the Yanks traded Ventura they still had Todd Zeile on the roster. To think that team made the World Series. Amazing.
2006-05-18 08:56:35
47.   tocho
Line up for today

Johnny Damon DH 4 20 .282 .360
Derek Jeter SS 5 29 .353 .446
Jason Giambi DH 12 34 .271 .480
Alex Rodríguez 3B 9 29 .280 .388
Robinson Canó 2B 2 15 .312 .345
Bernie Williams CF 2 15 .239 .279
Melky Cabrera RF 0 1 .316 .350
Bubba Crosby LF 0 2 .243 .317
Kelly Stinnett C 0 2 .217 .250

2006-05-18 08:57:53
48.   Rob Gee
43 I'm just sayin' with Justice. Your right about the flag - he had a killer second half that year.

Still, this team is not just one player away. 2000 was an anomaly. But the GM keeps making moves to try to replicate that.

A-Rod and Clemens trades are exceptions - the classic 8 dimes and a nickle trade for the silver dollar. You always make those deals.

The only 'added value' trade after that is Justice. But that value is tied directly to the Serious. The other side is Ledee and Westbrook - two guys that would be starting for this team right now (except Ledee is hurt). Wang is seeming to do okay as a groundballer. Three E's last night but we won the game.

45 Yeah, I'm not an expert on Tabata or Gardner. All I see is numbers.

On the face of it, the argument to not rush someone seems pretty silly. For every guy that was rushed there are just as many that arrived before their time (Pujols, Cano, Hamels). I believe that the good players always find a way. The only way to see what they're made of is to keep putting them in front of better competition. Why waste their time or yours? On some hope? See what they're made of. If they struggle, you send them back down (Duncan). Sooner or later you'll learn where their ceiling lies.

2006-05-18 09:02:21
49.   Cliff Corcoran
47 Is Giambi back at 1B?
2006-05-18 09:03:38
50.   Rob Gee
47 Not sure where you got it, but there are two DH's and no 1B. Giambi's at 1B?

And Bernie in CF?

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-05-18 09:06:40
51.   Sandman42
Took the train from NY to Trenton to watch/jeer Meat last night, but got there in the middle of the first. I'm glad I did. Seriously, how does that guy face his teammates? Anyway, the Thunder pulled out a good win with Justin Pope getting the save.

47 The Yankees have 2 DHs tonight? I wonder how Giambi will look at 1B being more immobile than usual.

2006-05-18 09:06:41
52.   Cliff Corcoran
I imagine you all might argue that Jorge is carrying this team and needs to DH today, and I don't disagree, but I see Torre's logic and can't protest too loudly. With three games under NL rules coming up, this is Joe's last chance to rest Damon (who's still got the messed up foot and shoulder) via the DH slot until they return to Boston next week. Padilla does have a bad ankle (I failed to find out about that prior to my post) and got lit up by the Yanks last time, so maybe the Yanks can deal with a PH appearance from Jorge if needed.
2006-05-18 09:07:58
53.   vockins
Pavano nicknames:

"Meat" is excellent, but I prefer my landlord's nickname for him: "Bubble Boy," as in boy-in-a-...

2006-05-18 09:08:18
54.   Cliff Corcoran
50 Good point, Rob. Bubba should be in CF. Then again, given the position confusion elsewhere, maybe he is.
2006-05-18 09:15:42
55.   wsporter
41 Rob Yeah I remember that as well I think that's where I got that. Didn't you cite a couple of sources on that? I can't remember but that's the impression I have.

I'm just as happy to "blame" it on Tampa anyway. I like Cashman (tough, smart and seems to be an honorable guy) and it bodes well for the future if the GM wasn't blinded by one good year and a Serious game on a player signing decision.

In thinking about this it seems to me there isn't a GM that runs a team and hasn't made mistakes; including Cashman. As you say, now that he's holding the reins (ok Rilke?) Cashman can be fairly judged. How long should you give a GM before his job can be evaluated? Is a Kazmir-like trade all it takes or can that be balanced by a number of good moves? What is the judgment criteria we should employ: Serious wins, pennants, attendance, beating Boston, good payroll/win balance, out back-paging the Mets, not sexually harassing employees? If we're going to judge him how should we and upon what should we base the judgment?

2006-05-18 09:17:01
56.   Benjamin Kabak
If someone could make a compelling case for why Aaron Small should start instead of, say, Darrell Rasner this Saturday, I will buy you a drink.

At the same time, a compelling Scott Erickson over Colter Bean argument would earn you points as well.

Youth shmout, say the Yankees.

2006-05-18 09:17:48
57.   tommyl
I'm trying to figure out Pavano. Its really one of two things:

1. He is really that freakin' fragile. If that's the case, how he ever made it this far is a complete mystery. I've played with people that fragile in various sports in high school and rec leagues and they would never, ever have made it to the big leagues no matter what their talent. So, if Pavano made it this far, he has to be at least somewhat durable.

2. He just refuses to pitch at the slightest bit of pain. I can't remember who said it, but a former Yankee pitcher was quoted as responding to, "When have you last felt 100%?" with, "High school." (or something close to that). I gave him the benefit of the doubt last year, and heck, even in spring training with the lower back since I know how tricky those can be (and surgery is often NOT the best option in those cases), but c'mon, bruised butt? "sore" triceps? shoulder? Just shut up and pitch.

At this point I will be surprised if Pavano pitches in the majors again and outright stunned if he pitches for the Yankees. Do the Yanks have an insurance policy on him? Definitely one of the worst signings ever.

And please don't go after Zito, he's older and I'm sensing a decline from him (of course that's just my intuition). His WHIP is pretty high, and his K/BB rate is nothing to be proud of. Not worth overpaying methinks.

2006-05-18 09:18:10
58.   Benjamin Kabak
41 Justice won the World Series for the Yankees in 2000. I'll make that trade again and again.

The Ted Lilly for Jeff Weaver deal, on the other hand, was a disaster.

2006-05-18 09:19:12
59.   tocho
I got the line-up from YES, in gameday it lists Giambi at 1b, Damon DH, Bernie at CF(!!!), Bubba LF and Melky RF.

talk about terrible defensive allignment, why the hell would you put Bernie in Center, Bubba in LF and Melky in RF?

ay torre!!

2006-05-18 09:20:33
60.   tommyl
55, wins. If we think another GM (don't get me wrong, I actually like Cashman and think he's decent) could build a team that could win more games, than Cashman is doing something wrong. E.g. if Cashman were offered Pujols for Pavano and turned it down because he wanted to shore up his pitching reserves, I think we could all agree he's a bad GM who just hurt his team. Right?
2006-05-18 09:21:17
61.   yankaholic
I Guess NoMass has the game "targeted" as Torre bloopers, if the defense bombs..
2006-05-18 09:22:50
62.   Cliff Corcoran
56 I don't know for sure, but a compelling case would be that Rasner's turn in the Clippers' rotation doesn't synch up with Sunday and by the time they realized that Chacon's shin was going to be an issue for that game it was too late to hold Rasner back.

57 Zito is both overrated and guaranteed to be overpriced (either in a trade or as a FA). That said, he'd slot in as the Yankees #2 starter right about now, though Wang will give him a run for his money.

2006-05-18 09:26:08
63.   Cliff Corcoran
59 Melky's proven to have the arm for right and it's the least ground to cover. That makes sense, but if that, then Bernie should play left and Bubba, if he's starting a game Damon isn't or is DHing, should always play center.
2006-05-18 09:28:37
64.   Cliff Corcoran
58 Oh, and the Lilly/Weaver trade wasn't a disaster. If you look at what Weaver's done since the trade and what Lilly's done it's pretty close. Remember again that Weaver is younger than Lilly. It's not the Yankees' fault that Weaver was the second coming of Ed Whitson, but given that the Weaver/Brown deal wasn't a disaster either, had Brown not punched that wall his first Yankee season would have been a success.
2006-05-18 09:32:42
65.   Rob Gee
Gameday has Giambi at 1B and yup:

Bernie in CF.

My f#cking god...Torre has regressed. Will we see Erickson in a tied game during the 6th?

2006-05-18 09:35:34
66.   wsporter
60 Tommyl, Sure and that's why I raise the Kazmir spectre. Is Cashman responsible for anything like that do date? No. If he were he should he be gone?

The point is there's lots of conversation about whether Cashman is a competent GM or not. There is however very little or no conversation about what the decision criteria employed to make those judgments is. What is the criteria we should employ? What are the factors upon which he should be judged and how are they to be measured?

If were going to judge him fairly there should be some consistent articulable criteria upon which his performance is measured. Right?

2006-05-18 09:36:11
67.   tommyl
62 So that means we're gonna go after him doesn't it? sigh...
2006-05-18 09:36:16
68.   C2Coke
Shouldn't they have this OF yesterday when Wang was pitching? My blood pressure just went up.
2006-05-18 09:41:12
69.   tocho
63 agreed on melky's arm but I don't think its good to be switching him around, Bernie should never ever start again in CF, Bubba should and despite the double v the redsox, bernie hasn't looked that bad in RF.
2006-05-18 09:41:26
70.   tommyl
66, fair enough point to make. I gave my criteria, though I'm more than happy to listen to others' opinions.
2006-05-18 09:46:28
71.   Rob Gee
66 Here's my argument from January. I imagine to evaluate all the GM's properly you'd have to do something similar and come up with some metric for each move. I'm surprised someone geekier than me hasn't done it already. The anti-Casman to me is Kenny Williams. I only probably change the assessment of Giambi - he's a 'special' case. Not sure I agree on the Weaver/Brown deal - at least the former is still in the league at a bit worse than average and he sucks up innings. Brown had 3/4 of a good season for the Yanks and Brozoban still could be something.

Fat Toad for Lilly and Westbrook was also added value though.

Here's the point: A great GM is really a financial analyst - determine the market value of each player and sell high, buy low. Drafting prospects falls in the same reasoning - buy promising stocks and watch their value grow. On this scale, Cash is a miserable GM. He consistently buys way too high (Vazquez, Unit, Giambi, etc) and sells way too low (see e.g. Weaver and Vazquez trades). Of course, Cano and Wang being the exceptions - name another prospect that came through the system. In 8 years, there should be someone, no?

Out of curiosity, see below for Cash's major transactions. Bottomline: Cash is mediocre and benefits from the Yanks resources, not because he's a great (or even good) GM. In his eight years, two moves standout as added value - A-Rod and Clemens, but so many more were huge losses in value (Weaver for Brown, Vazquez (coming and going, Lowell, Wily Mo Pena). The FA signings are evenly balanced between flushing the cash (Giambi, Karsay) and getting a quarter for a dime (Matsui, Sheff). The drafts have yielded NOTHING while that money has been spent on Latin FA's. Overall Cash is OVER-rated. This off-season is more of the same (overpriced, past-prime players where value is eventaully lost) but little fore-sight (i.e., where's our next catcher? young arms? Back-up 1B? legit 4th OF/DH?). If anything, Cash regime is looking like one that struggles to hold the pieces together rather than work toward a better model.

1998 (took job Feb. 3):
Signed El Duque
Drafted, but didn't sign, M.Prior and N.Logan
Drafted, but DID sign, Drew Henson
Signed Soriano
re-signed Raines, Cone, Brosius, and Bernie
Traded Chris Singleton for PTBNL

Traded M.Lowell for stiffs
Traded Wells etc for Clemens
Signed Wily Mo Pena
Re-signed Straw
Drafted A.Phillips (7th round)
Resigned M.Stanton
Resigned Cone
Traded Fat Toad for J.Westbrook and Ted Lilly

Signed Baby Duque
Signed Gooden
Drafted J.Anderson and B.Halsey (didn't sign latter)
Traded Leyritz for Vizcaino
Traded R.Ledee, Westbrook, and Z.Day for Justice
Traded Henson etc for Denny Neagle
Traded stiffs for Glenallen Hill
Signed D.Navarro
Resigned O'Neill
Signed Moose
Resigned Gooden
Resigned Sojo

Traded Wily Mo Pena for Henson etc
Traded Marte for Wilson
Traded Jimenez for Witasick
Traded stiff for Wohlers
Traded Justice for Ventura
Signed Karsay
Signed Giambi
Traded Witasick for Vander Wal
Signed Rondell White
Resigned S.Hitchcock

Resigned Sojo
Signed D.Wells
Drafted Brad Halsey
Traded Lilly etc for Dreamweaver
Traded stiff for Mondesi
Resigned Clemens
Signed Godzilla

Traded El Duque for stiffs
Signed Flaherty
Signed Lieber
Signed Contreas
Traded R.White for Bubba Trammell etc
traded Marcus Thames for Ruben Sierra
Traded J. Anderson etc. for Benitez
Traded Modesi for Dellucci and Prinz
Traded Claussen for Boone
Traded Ventura for Proctor and Crosby
Traded Benitez for J.Nelson
Traded Hitchcock for stiffs
Resigned Heredia, Sierra
Signed Gordon, Quantrill
Traded Dreamweaver, Brozoban for Brown
Traded N.Johnson, J.Rivera for Vazquez
Signed Shef, Cairo

Signed Lofton
Traded Sori for A-Rod
Resigned El Duque
Traded Contreas for Loaiza
Signed Olreud
Resigned Flaherty
Signed Pavano
Signed Woemack
Signed Wright

Signed Tino
Traded Vazquez, Halsey, Navarro for Unit
Resigned Sierra
Signed Small
Traded stiff for Chacon
Signed Stinnett, Damon, Myers, Farns, Dotel
Resigned Bernie, Cairo

2006-05-18 09:48:21
72.   Cliff Corcoran
66 The Kazmir trade was one of the worst in recent memory. It has the potential to be an Anderson-for-Bagwell-level blunder. I don't think that's a realistic standard. Few GMs screw up that badly, even the crappy ones.
2006-05-18 09:56:41
73.   Cliff Corcoran
71 Yes, but how much of that was really Cashman's doing? Hard to say. Certainly the Unit trade wasn't his, though the Vazquez trade was. It's difficult to judge him on his record without adjusting for Boss Factors.
2006-05-18 09:58:19
74.   Rob Gee
57 62 Zito will indeed be overpriced but he's certainly not past his prime.

He just turned 28 (May 13th)

He consistently throws 200 innings a year (each of the last five).

His career ERA is 3.49 where league average over that time is 4.50.

I'm all for it, esp. if it's this winter in FA. He immediately makes the rotation that much better.

2006-05-18 09:58:22
75.   Cliff Corcoran
No Blalock for Texas today, old Yankee farmhand and Jay Witasuck trade bate D'Angelo "The Reds Thought Womack Would Do Better Than Me Then Released Him Too" Jimenez is at third.
2006-05-18 10:01:23
76.   Rob Gee
73 You know, everyone says that. But I don't see Boss factors deciding whether to include Halsey or Henn in the Unit trade.

The dictum "Get Unit" does not equal "Send Navarro and Halsey with Vazquez"

Even still, look no further than this season - Erickson and Terrance Long tell me all I need to know about the GM. In a few weeks, we'll have a bit more data.

2006-05-18 10:03:42
77.   YankeeInMichigan
63 I recall seeing a quote from Torre a couple of weeks ago stating that Williams looked far more comfortable in right than in left. Cabrerra also has no left-field experience and looked a bit clumsy last night. That leaves Crosby and Kevin Reese as the only left fielders on the roster.

Obviously, the team can't go on like this for three months. Perhaps, after Sheffied returns, they can option Cabrerra to Columbus for a couple of weeks to give him work in left field.

2006-05-18 10:03:46
78.   Cliff Corcoran
76 Yes, but if the Boss doesn't say "get Unit" maybe Cash tells AZ to buzz off and makes a smarter deal for a different pitcher. The thing is when Boss says "get this guy" he's not discreet and the price goes up and the GM is cornered.
2006-05-18 10:13:54
79.   Cliff Corcoran
76 I admit that the Erickson and Long moves are extremely damning, but I look at things this way. Cash got full control this winter. Look at the list of departed Yankees to the immediate right of these comments. See anyone there you'd want back? He cut lose a lot of dead weight and now we've got Wang, Cano, Phillips, Cabrera, and Reese on the roster and saw a bit of Matt Smith. Yes it's due to injury, and yes Erickson got the recall over Smith, but these guys weren't getting as much as a look before. Wang and Cano are key starters. Phillips, Crosby and Proctor have permanent 25-man spots, which if nothing else means fewer million dollar suck holes on the roster. When injuries happen, the organization looks to fill from within first rather than jumping on a trade. Yes the system is weak up top, but last year's draft was a strong one, there are low level players that are very exciting and guys like Cox and Hughes who are coming on fast. There are a lot of good things happening and the future of this organization looks brighter now than it did two years ago. Cashman may very well be overrated, but that doesn't mean he doesn't know what he's doing.
2006-05-18 10:14:32
80.   Rob Gee
78 You're absolutely right. Served 'em right though - They gave up on Vazquez for Duque - there really are bad GM's out there.

That's probably the best place to start, eliminate the absolute worst first.

2006-05-18 10:15:13
81.   wsporter
71 But Rob, you can't view Cashman in a vacuum. As we agreed there was either Tampa input or control on all of those transactions. That is not Cashman's record as a GM that is Cashman's record as a GM in name only operating within the confines of a Yankees management committee. If you can cherry pick the transactions that he was solely responsible for or that he controlled then let's look at those. But if you're going to paint with a broad brush then EVERYONE connected with Yankees management has to be tarred with it, not just Cashman. What were Cashman's views and what was the record he established concerning his opinion during internal discussions concerning those transactions? We don't know.

I think the point we arrived at back in January was we need to begin judging Cashman after his November coup d'etat.

Again though, I think we have to do more than look at the transactions and say good trade or bad trade or good signing or bad signing. We have to look to the overall results of the transactions and apply some consistent criteria if we can judge him fairly. We need to do that looking forward from November 2005.

66 I'm not suggesting that the Kazmir trade should be employed as a standard other than for establishing a floor on a single move that could potentially earn a firing. I was asking a question and employing it as an extreme example and wondering if such an act can be balanced by other good moves. (I don't think it can be)

Tommyl raised a hypothetical Pavano/Pujols move that further served to illustrate the point that a move (or failure to make a move) would have to be that outlandishly bad if a GM were to be judged solely on a single transaction

2006-05-18 10:15:38
82.   Cliff Corcoran
By the way, Game On! Wright works a 1-2-3 first on 11 pitches.

Oh, and per my comment in 79 the Long move hasn't even happened yet, so let's not blame Cash until it does. After which, someone above made a very good point in that with Cabrera and Reese up from AAA, they need a warm body down in Columbus.

2006-05-18 10:22:01
83.   Rob Gee
79 You're right again. As is your assessment of the GM in the last sentence. He's mediocre, average, ordinary.

The organizational improvement I'll attribute to Stick being back in the fold, esp. after this year's draft.

On Phillips though I'm afraid he's a few weeks away from a Carlos Pena or Craig Wilson bumping him for good.

On Proctor I'll be very surprised if he's still pitching this well at the end of the year. This may be his Stutrze-stretch and it could earn him a job as long as his heart is big enough and Torre's still the manager.

Bubba looks like he'll stick. But by now other guys in the organization could probably give us what he does. If Melky sticks, Bubba's a 5th OF with Bernie still ahead of him.

2006-05-18 10:22:19
84.   Cliff Corcoran
By the way, Rob, I have to commend you for keeping a cap on the outrage in this Cashman discussion. The mere lack of excessive capital letters and hyphenated nicknames alone makes this a much more pleasant conversation.
2006-05-18 10:23:29
85.   Rob Gee
82 They've got warm bodies in Trenton that would send a much better message by promoting the best one and they would give you Long's 'production'.
2006-05-18 10:24:44
86.   YankeeInMichigan
Continuing from 77: Surrounded with Crosby and Cabrerra, Bernie will need to cover less ground than he had to with Matsui and Sheffield.

Note also that Torre decided to experiment with Cabrerra in left with Wang, a ground-ball pitcher, on the mound. (Note the catch-22: It's less of a risk, but he's not going to learn the position.)

By the way, why would the Rangers be resting Blalock with a right-handed power pitcher on the mound?

2006-05-18 10:25:15
87.   Rob Gee
84 For my own sanity, I've found it best to minimize my use of the GM's name.

And I think I promised someone not to discuss HIM until the All-star break.

2006-05-18 10:29:48
88.   wsporter
87 Rob you take the point out of context; it was ment to explain why Long may be brought in to Columbus and to explain why he may not be intended for the big club.
2006-05-18 10:30:21
89.   Start Spreading the News
In judging a GM is hindsight really fair? Shouldn't you judge a GM by what the consensus on the trade was AT THAT TIME?

For example, the Kazmir trade -- everyone but the Mets knew that to be a bad trade AT THE TIME OF THE TRADE.

But Lilly for Weaver? I loved the Weaver trade AT THAT TIME. And I was not alone. Weaver put up the same exact numbers as Lilly did but was younger. Weaver was a very good pitcher for a bad Detroit team. Lilly struggled with consistency with a good Yankees team. You are going to blame Cashman for Weaver being a Whitson?

And look at Jose Contreras! The Sabermetric Red Sox did everything they could to sign him. And he turned into a dud for the Yanks. You blame Cashman for that?

Also, how do you separate Cashman moves from Steinbrenner's moves? The Boss loved Drew Henson, Strawberry, Gooden, Wells and Womack. You want to say those are Cashman's moves? The Boss is the one that got strung out with Bernie William's negotiations where he ended up paying more than Bernie initially asked for.

You really don't think the Lieber move was a savvy one? The Yanks got 176 innings and 14 wins for $3.2mil which most teams would do in a heartbeat.

Some moves where Cashman bought low which you kindly omitted: Matsui, Lieber, El Duque and A-Rod. Remember the Yanks are only paying $16 mill for ARod's services. He got Texas to throw in money!!! Matsui is not only was a bargain considering his numbers and his salary. But also consider the Japanese TV market and steady stream of Japanese visitors who buy tons of outrageously priced Yankee clothing.

Also, you want to criticize Cashman for not having prospects when everyone knows that Steinbrenner/Torre loves veterans and are willing to sacrifice youth for wins? Did you hear of the struggle with the Tampa contigent and Cashman?

Most of the criticsm of Cashman is hugely based on hindsight. Yes, Cashman is supposed to know that Karsay who had averaged 80 innings with a 3.4 era for Cleveland and Atlanta was going to be injured for the Yankees after a very good first season for them.

Yes, he should have known that Kevin Brown who had 14 wins and a 2.39 era the year before coming to the Yanks would punch a wall with his throwing arm when he finally was pitching consistently.

Your true measure of Cashman starts this year when he seems to have been given power over Tampa. But even then tone down the hindsight.

2006-05-18 10:30:44
90.   tocho
I have to say I'm still laughing at one of the posts from yesterday I believe:

something like "goodbye Tanyon and thanks for the Sturtze", priceless...

2006-05-18 10:36:12
91.   Yankee Fan in Chicago
There goes the perfect game.
2006-05-18 10:38:16
92.   Rob Gee
89 You got it - the real Cashman:


Notice any trends? Tell me what you see...

2006-05-18 10:38:49
93.   wsporter
Nice play Bernie.
2006-05-18 10:39:19
94.   rbj
You mean Padilla's perfect game. Don't say anything, wouldn't want to jinx Vicente's no hitter.
2006-05-18 10:39:43
95.   tocho
91 OTOH, Padilla is still working on his own perfect game, pretty amazing huh?
2006-05-18 10:40:50
96.   BobbyBaseBall
Nicely done 94 & 95
2006-05-18 10:41:24
97.   Rob Gee
On cue - Melky!

The Banter curse continues!

2006-05-18 10:42:22
98.   C2Coke
97 Now that's a good one!
2006-05-18 10:42:39
99.   Benjamin Kabak
Bobby Murcer just talked about the Yankees "league-leading sacrfice bunt total." What's wrong with that picture? Too many bunts. Too many bunts.
2006-05-18 10:44:56
100.   Nick from Washington Heights
Vincente's still working on a 1-hitter. Shh.

By the way, I read some where that that a certain A's center fielder was on the DL. Not a surprise, I heard the guy has a bit of an injury history.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2006-05-18 10:45:23
101.   Rob Gee
99 Seriously though. The best way to beat good pitches is to give up outs? If Bubba's batting maybe. But should we ever see Jeter, and Damon, and Cano bunting?
2006-05-18 10:48:15
102.   rbj
92 don't mean to butt in too much on Rob's & Cliff's discussion, but didn't Cashman also pick up Small & Chacon last year, when the rotation was in free fall?
2006-05-18 10:48:32
103.   Zavo
I'm just watching on the computer, but this game seems to be going very quickly.

It's getaway day, are they playing like it?

2006-05-18 10:51:45
104.   wsporter
2006-05-18 10:53:43
105.   tocho
OK guys, here comes the rally. let's show jared our support here.

102 basically saved the season right there.

2006-05-18 10:55:49
106.   Rob Gee
102 That was called 'flailing and hitting a homerun'. Seriously, did anyone, anyone, think those guys would go 17-3 down the stretch? Even 10-10?

Neither did the GM. He had no other choice.

Remember all the guys that made starts before those two?

2006-05-18 10:55:57
107.   ChuckM
Would this be the same Kenny Williams who gave up 3 prospects for Roberto Alomar and FIVE for Carl Everett over two separate trades. Even if those gusy don't amount to anything, that's a helluva lot of chips to move out of your farm system...
2006-05-18 10:57:09
108.   yankaholic
2 cents.. I think we all see the point ROB G is trying to make, Cashman has -- atleast -- rubber stamped some bad deals and has done some decent ones.. while hindsight is NOT wisdom, hindsight is a good vehicle to build your case for the future..

I think we all took the DJustice deal because we were 1 player away, i dont think we will take that same deal, because we are 2/3 players away now.. but the GM may not think so..

As far as Cashman is concerned i cant believe he is got off so easy on the Contreras trade.. even though he was struggling he could have gotten more..

Small was an accident than wisdom..

And Chacon was a freak.. on the day Chacon was acquired.. quoting Cash " we just needed a body out there.. we had no one.. we wanted someone.. and his rotation spot works out fine for us.."

i mean do we all believe Yansk were watching him for 6 months before tha deal, or saw tapes of his prev starts??

havign said all that, to handle the pressure of Tampa and come thru with Class Cash has been good, he has been good with Torre..

i see this whole FO change once Swindall takes control in 2 years max..

in the meantime if Cash sticks to the mantra of saving prospects.. i guess i will be happy

2006-05-18 11:04:17
109.   wsporter
108 Yank, So Cash gets all the blame for the horrible transactions and zero credit for anything that has worked out. That seems fair; especially since he may not have been the sole voice on any of those deals prior to this past November.
2006-05-18 11:11:04
110.   rbj
I don't mind saying Small & (to a lesser extent) Chacon were flukes, but if you're going to put down Cashman for deals that were bad in hindsight, then you've got to praise him for deals that in hindsight were good. Weaver sucked big time in NY, the GM was able to get someone with a halfway decent record (though an absurdly large contract) for him. And he was able to pull off the A-Rod deal, something that Theo "boy genius" Epstein couldn't. And gave up a much lesser player than Manny.

40 pitches through four for Wright? Has he broken into Wang's stash?

2006-05-18 11:12:37
111.   yankaholic
Porter, i didnt say that.. infact to handle a boss like "THE BOSS" Cash is pretty good..

i didnt list out or point 100 bad trades, i questioned one -- Contreras --trade and i also said the Chacon trade was -- hmm -- a "good bloop single".. shall we say?

And i am perfectly aware of the BOSS making lot of moves.. as someone said if BOSS has taken his hands off the kettle.. then its truly time to see what Mr Cash cooks..

but, just like we are all happy to ignore all jeter errors.. lets not do the same with some bad trades..

simply, lets do an ARod on Cash.. as Alex B said "waited breath" on what hes gonna do this summer.. the one we all agree where hes gonnab the real GM after a while..

2006-05-18 11:15:15
112.   C2Coke
110 Surely we don't mind having two Wangs with the recent performances. But let's wait until the end of this inning and see if that's really the case.

103 Otherwise, the previous 4 innings were nice and easy.

2006-05-18 11:15:39
113.   Schteeve
Rob, you were kidding about Matsui's injury being non-legit, right?
2006-05-18 11:18:32
114.   wsporter
111 Sorry Yank I thought you were referencing and adopting Rob's argument. As I reread I guess I took away the wrong message originally from your 108.
2006-05-18 11:20:33
115.   wsporter
In the mean time Wright is making another incremental improvement in the quality of his starts. This one looks pretty darn good.
2006-05-18 11:21:17
116.   C2Coke
Those were some nice cheers for Wright in the Stadium.

According to YES, his pitches so far today were mostly maintained in the mid-90s.

2006-05-18 11:21:21
117.   Schteeve
I throw up in my mouth a lot less with Jaret Wright on the mound these days.
2006-05-18 11:21:30
118.   Rob Gee
And I repeat - the real GM circa 2005:


Notice any trends? Anyone? Tell me what you see...

2006-05-18 11:22:00
119.   rbj
Wright bends but does not break. Hopefully he can keep it up for a couple more innings and Padilla loses his shut out.
2006-05-18 11:23:44
120.   yankaholic
Porter, you are welcome..

And how abt WANG err Wright.. nice.. on a day we learnt Meat is done... for a while..

Go Wright..

2006-05-18 11:24:05
121.   wsporter
118 Rob I see a team in first place despite devistating injuries. What do you see?
2006-05-18 11:24:53
122.   rbj
Damon's an upgrade over Bernie in CF (plus a ding to the RS)
Stinnett's an upgrade over what's-his-name.
Farns is a good set up to Mo, especially with Flash deciding to leave.
2006-05-18 11:25:12
123.   wsporter
117 NICE! Very nice.
2006-05-18 11:25:44
124.   bloodyank78
I said it earlier in this thread 2, but Wright seems to have his fastball back and that makes his other stuff much more effective. He struck out Brajas w/ a nasty breaking ball w/runners on the corners. He still has a lot to prove but I like what I'm seeing.
2006-05-18 11:25:56
125.   C2Coke
115 And Wright has that confident look on his face, whereas when the camera went to the dugout, Randy Johnson looks nervous. Seriously, RJ is looking like he is nervous!

113 I hope he was...I mean we can say all we want about Pavano because he deserves it but Mastui worked real hard out there everyday before his injury. I already miss him and its only been a few days.

2006-05-18 11:26:12
126.   Schteeve
What you guys don't factor into the Cashman discussion, is that Cashman, by virtue of the team he manages, does not have to ability to take chances on young unproven guys, who make take a year or two to mature, because the expectation is that the team must make a hard hard run for the W.S. every single year.

Plus, people don't watch the Yankees, to see Canos', and Phillips', and Melkys', and Thompsons' and Rasners'. People (other than us) watch the Yankees to see the most famous baseball players in the world do their thing in pinstripes. I'm not saying it makes good baseball sense, but it is what it is, Cashman is managing a brand as much as he's managing a baseball team.

I'm not saying it's an excuse, but it's a big reason.

2006-05-18 11:26:58
127.   C2Coke
117 But I bet you still do when RJ is on the mound.
2006-05-18 11:27:56
128.   wsporter
2006-05-18 11:28:53
129.   Rob Gee
And down goes Bubba!

Terrance Long anyone?

2006-05-18 11:29:32
130.   Yankee Fan in Chicago
What happened to Bubba?
2006-05-18 11:29:54
131.   yankaholic
What happened to Bubba??
2006-05-18 11:30:21
132.   wsporter
129 We've still got another Kevin left.
2006-05-18 11:30:51
133.   Schteeve
125 Yeah, and I even am loathe to question Pavano's manhood. For the most part we probably all sit in chairs for a living. We don't have any kind of perspective on what these injuries are all about. And saying, 'well, so and so played three seasons with a broken rib sticking out of his uniform, so Pavano should be able to pitch through some soreness in his arm,' is just silly.
2006-05-18 11:30:52
134.   rbj
Well put 126. Any year the Yankees don't win the series, it isn't a success.

OK, those watching the game, why is Reese in to PR? There are two outs.

2006-05-18 11:32:20
135.   Rob Gee
BTW: Stinnett now has a .511 OPS (25 AB's)
2006-05-18 11:32:20
136.   wsporter
Hurt his leg comming out of the box on a ball he hit into the RF corner. Looked like a sure double when he hit it but he ended up limping into the bag at first.
2006-05-18 11:32:35
137.   C2Coke
126 Yea...and sometimes I think similar situation goes on with Torre too. Many times, Torre deals better with the press than with his bullpen. Again, like Schteeve said, it's not an excuse but a big reason.

And hopefully, Phillips, Melky, Thompson et al can all use this time efficiently to develop into something. I believe Cano did last year, hence, he has this year to continue developing.

2006-05-18 11:33:56
138.   Benjamin Kabak
At least Reese gets to play now.
2006-05-18 11:35:44
139.   wsporter
Melky!!!!! The kid can play.
2006-05-18 11:35:46
140.   BklynBmr
Melky-mania!!! Nice running catch in the corner!
2006-05-18 11:36:00
141.   rbj
Crud. Is there a curse on Yankee outfielders this year?
2006-05-18 11:36:20
142.   C2Coke
What's with all the injuries lately? Bad Feng-Shui?
2006-05-18 11:37:13
143.   BklynBmr
Wow. Reese did not see that ball at all...
2006-05-18 11:37:28
144.   Benjamin Kabak
Um, nice play, Kevin Reese.
2006-05-18 11:37:28
145.   Rob Gee
132 That's the real question: Will be see Kevin Thompson before or after Terrance Long?

Or now the next data point on the GM is on the next trade he makes.

2006-05-18 11:37:53
146.   tocho
138 yeah!! Kevin!!
2006-05-18 11:40:34
147.   BklynBmr
Wright is getting the job done today...
2006-05-18 11:40:47
148.   Schteeve
Does Jaret Wright still walk around with that Magic 8 ball sized hunk of chaw in his cheek?
2006-05-18 11:41:13
149.   bloodyank78
Who else feels a couple of Yankee runs are in store for the bottom of the 6th?
2006-05-18 11:41:28
150.   C2Coke
6 solid innings from Wright. Now time for the offense to get to work.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2006-05-18 11:42:22
151.   C2Coke
149 Hear hear...
2006-05-18 11:42:39
152.   Benjamin Kabak
I wish the YES Network wouldn't do this shrill job for Fox News. Baseball and partisan politics just don't mix. Why drive a wedge into something over which people of all stripes can come together?
2006-05-18 11:44:04
153.   bloodyank78
148, He's had it in the whole game. If he continues to pitch like this I'll send him a whole box of Redman, Beechnut, or whatever brand he chews.
2006-05-18 11:44:12
154.   Rob Gee
Seeing the next four hitters are making about 75 mil between them this year, it would be nice to see a rally.
2006-05-18 11:44:48
155.   Yankee Fan in Chicago
Dammit Damon swing the bat. That's twice in a row he's been rung up looking.
2006-05-18 11:44:59
156.   Cliff Corcoran
Okay, piecing together as I just got back from lunch and am still limited to Gameday:

Bubba pulled something (groin? hammy?), Melky made a nice play in right and Reese lost a ball in the worst sun field in baseball on a very sunny day. Melky and Bubba have the Yankees only hits and Wright is cruising.

Do I have that right?

2006-05-18 11:45:34
157.   tocho
men, padilla is pitching great today.
2006-05-18 11:46:41
158.   yankaholic
Spot on.. Cliff
2006-05-18 11:46:58
159.   tocho
really great, only 2 hits, no runs, almost a no-hitter. everything is working...
2006-05-18 11:48:12
160.   Yankee Fan in Chicago
Clutch-Rod coming to the plate. I have a feeling about this at-bat . . .
2006-05-18 11:49:23
161.   bloodyank78
Giambi could moonlight as a backstop at the rate that dude gets hit.
2006-05-18 11:49:44
162.   tocho
156 melky's made two great catches in right and bernie a great catch in CF, proving once again that we shouldn't be managers. Bubba probably got hurt trying to make himself a great catch in LF which he missed.

Padilla is dealing

2006-05-18 11:50:16
163.   Cliff Corcoran
152 I couldn't agree more. Those special-for-YES Fox News spots really bother me. You'd think George would have learned his lesson when he was suspended from baseball for making illegal contributions to the Nixon campaign that never happened.

154 Dude, just watch the game. As Pavano should have taught you, the dollars have nothing to do with performance. Talk about their stats on the field all you want, but salary doesn't factor into game action. That's the sort of thing that makes me nuts.

2006-05-18 11:52:01
164.   Yankee Fan in Chicago
160 . . . a bad feeling
2006-05-18 11:52:17
165.   Dimelo
True dat, Cliff. Rob, what does the salary have to with anything? Do you need a nice big red balloon to feel better?
2006-05-18 11:53:19
166.   Cliff Corcoran
162 Left field is just killing the newbies, ain't it. Bubba and Melky both missing diving catches, Reese making an error. Maybe we're all a bit hard on Matsui's defense, at least at home, and particularly in day games. Maybe.
2006-05-18 11:53:32
167.   Shaun P
156 Thanks Cliff, for providing the recap I was just going to ask for. I just got here myself.

Is Wright really pitching that well? No walks, 2 Ks, 62% of his pitches for strikes - color me impressed. It is a day game after a night game at the end of a long 4 game set, but still. The only Ranger missing is Blalock. Why sit Blalock against a righty is beyond me, so I've probably missed something there.

Is Bubba OK or did he have a Matsui's wrist moment?

2006-05-18 11:55:07
168.   Benjamin Kabak
YES just showed Everyday Scottie warming up. Joe does know the Yanks have some other bullpen pitchers, right?
2006-05-18 11:55:58
169.   Cliff Corcoran
So Reese singles and the three Yankee hits are by Bubba, Melky and Kevin Reese. Go figure that one. Reese is now hitting 1.000 on the season and has a career .667 OBP. ;)
2006-05-18 11:56:29
170.   Cliff Corcoran
Oh ratfarts, that was Kevin Mench who singled to Reese. Ignore my stupidness.
2006-05-18 11:56:58
171.   BklynBmr
163 How do you make that reach?
2006-05-18 11:57:13
172.   tocho
everyday proctor and myers are warming up
2006-05-18 11:57:47
173.   Yankee Fan in Chicago
2006-05-18 11:58:21
174.   rbj
Dam. But it wouldn't be a problem if Jaret had some offense behind him.
2006-05-18 11:58:24
175.   Benjamin Kabak
Wilkerson has killed the Yanks this week. 3 HR, 5 RBI this series.
2006-05-18 11:58:30
176.   Cliff Corcoran
168 Infuriating. I go straight to Farnsworth in this game. It's already the seventh, he had yesterday off and used I think just nine pitches on Tuesday. The players should start calling Proctor "Karsay" around the clubhouse to clue Joe in.
2006-05-18 11:59:56
177.   Cliff Corcoran
171 What reach?
2006-05-18 12:00:15
178.   Schteeve
I even manage my video game bullpen with more care than Joe manages his real life pen.
2006-05-18 12:00:59
179.   wsporter
Did anyone check out Jeter's reaction after DeRosa got hit? CA-LA-SIC.
2006-05-18 12:01:50
180.   Cliff Corcoran
Single, homer, HBP. Gak! If Wright doesn't get Jimenez I yank him.
2006-05-18 12:02:27
181.   BobbyBaseBall
179 Please fill in those of us who are "watching" on Gameday & BB
2006-05-18 12:02:28
182.   rbj
179 Tell us. Gamecast doesn't do reactions.
2006-05-18 12:02:42
183.   BklynBmr
177 Advertisers on the YES network and George's 1972 campaign contributions.
2006-05-18 12:02:55
184.   Schteeve
179 One of the things that I've always liked about Jeter is that he exhibits more personality on the field and in teh dugout than he does in interviews. He just clearly loves the game and has fun with it.
2006-05-18 12:03:06
185.   Dimelo
wsporter, can you tell us? I'm at work and I'm only able to listen to the game.
2006-05-18 12:03:25
186.   Benjamin Kabak
It's still just a "bloop and a blast" game. Why go with Scott Erickson? Gah. Bullpen management is not Joe's strong suit.

Ron Villone is still alive.

2006-05-18 12:03:29
187.   C2Coke
So that was 6 solid innings from Wright indeed. He did good though, got nice claps and cheers as he leaves the mound.
Jeter's reaction to the DeRosa's hit by pitch was interesting as if he was thinking "here we go again."
2006-05-18 12:03:29
188.   tocho
178 me too, its tragic...
2006-05-18 12:03:46
189.   wsporter
Any word on Bubba yet?
2006-05-18 12:04:00
190.   Shaun P
174 With 4 blackholes in the lineup, and Cano in the midst of a 6 for 26 (.230) with 1 BB skid, what else could we expect today?

This is like a Womack-Flaherty-Tino-Bernie special from last year.

And now Erickson enters the game. ARGH! A few more appearances by Erickson, and I swear, I'm going to start "" together with Rob Gee.

2006-05-18 12:04:26
191.   Cliff Corcoran
If Proctor and Myers were warming, how did Erickson come in? You TV/radio sorts are misleading us!
2006-05-18 12:04:37
192.   wsporter
176 Well they heard part of it Cliff.
2006-05-18 12:06:34
193.   Shaun P
168 Are we sure that Villone is alive? Perhaps he's been sucked into the same black hole that caught Felix Rodriguez last year.
2006-05-18 12:06:37
194.   Dimelo
Yeah video games are good and Torre's stupid for not understanding that these guys are just like video game characters. If Joe lived in a virtual world I'm sure he'd make the "right" decisions all the time.
2006-05-18 12:06:38
195.   Rob Gee
190 A few more appearances you need from Erickson?

There is no reason he should be in the organization let alone on the big club.

2006-05-18 12:06:39
196.   rbj
I agree, go to Farns. Save Proctor for this weekend, especially when Unit goes down early tomorrow.
2006-05-18 12:06:52
197.   Cliff Corcoran
Also, that seemed like a bit of a quick hook from Joe (emphasis from Joe), is Wright okay?
2006-05-18 12:08:06
198.   Yankee Fan in Chicago
Great. A walk to the number , hitting .216.
2006-05-18 12:08:28
199.   Rob Gee
Great start. Walk the guy hitting .216!
2006-05-18 12:08:30
200.   rbj
Ack, I had the wrong Scott. Well maybe Torre is resting Proctor.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2006-05-18 12:08:47
201.   Rob Gee
Great start. Walk the guy hitting .216!
2006-05-18 12:08:53
202.   tocho
torre wants to lose today. that's the only explanation of Erickson in. Villone is still in the pen Joe, please yank this guy.

I hate losing a nice afternoon to watch this. the game is completely reachable. DAMN!!!

2006-05-18 12:08:57
203.   Benjamin Kabak
197 Yes, it's Joe's new approach of having his starters just throw 82 pitches. See Chien-Ming Wang yesterday and six days ago.
2006-05-18 12:09:31
204.   C2Coke
163 Cliff, you got that right considering Wang only makes 300,000 a year.

167 Hopefully Bubba is ok. He seemed fine after the catch, he is young he should be playing again if not tomorrow but in two three days.

2006-05-18 12:09:34
205.   Schteeve
Great! Walk the guy hitting .216!
2006-05-18 12:09:38
206.   Shaun P
Way to throw strikes, there, Erickson. This game has put me in a foul mood.

Dear Joe,

The top of the lineup is coming up. PLEASE do NOT leave Erickson in there. For the love of all things good, PLEASE do NOT bring in Proctor - his arm is already in pain.

Pretty please?

2006-05-18 12:09:38
207.   Cliff Corcoran
192 huh?

183 I don't want to sully this thread with politics, but the connection is George's support of the Republican Party.

2006-05-18 12:09:47
208.   yankaholic
Cliff, dont even start.. if Wright goes down.. then OMG.. dont even start..

i wud like to think it was baseball move..

so now its 2 on.. hmm

2006-05-18 12:10:49
209.   Zack
Maybe this will make Torre realize Erickson sucks
2006-05-18 12:11:56
210.   Cliff Corcoran
203 And Mussina in Texas!
2006-05-18 12:12:02
211.   wsporter
That's crap. Erickson ends up looking bad but those runs should not score. Robie has to make that play.
2006-05-18 12:12:44
212.   C2Coke
191 Proctor was warming and then sat down again. Maybe Torre suddenly realized Proctor's arm was falling off.

197 Wright did look a little tired, and he lost the confident look.

2006-05-18 12:13:07
213.   Shaun P
How many runs in? Gameday is slow.

This is why Matt Smith didn't get called up?

195 Fair enough but I guess I just haven't gone over the edge yet, Rob. The first sighting of Terrance Long in pinstripes though, I'm there.

If this game gets worse, I might go register the domain name now just to make sure its available.

2006-05-18 12:13:09
214.   Cliff Corcoran
Did Robby just boot an inning-ending DP ball there? That's how it reads on Gameday.
2006-05-18 12:13:38
215.   Rob Gee
How can you not blame the GM for making a guy like Erickson even available to his manager?

Seriously, how long has he worked with Tea?

The man's an addict for washups in games like this..

2006-05-18 12:13:49
216.   jedi
193 Only difference is I was glad Joe kept Felix in that black hole. he was witasick horrible.
2006-05-18 12:13:53
217.   Benjamin Kabak
Cano. It's like Chuck Knoblauch all over again.
2006-05-18 12:14:07
218.   rbj
Did Robbie boot another groundball?
2006-05-18 12:14:16
219.   BklynBmr
207 It's already sullied ;-) Let's keep it on this frustrating game...
2006-05-18 12:14:52
220.   Schteeve
I lived in Maryland during Erickson's heyday in Baltimore, and even then he was extremely hittable in the early innings. He's only effective if he keeps the ball down, so I don't know why anyone thought he'd make a good reliever.
2006-05-18 12:15:00
221.   tocho
Just turned the game off. if they come back today, I won't watch it. I'm to pissed right now to get excited about anything that this team can do today.

Torre had a brainfart today.

see you guys tomorrow

2006-05-18 12:15:42
222.   Benjamin Kabak
214 Cliff, the infield was in. There was a potential play at the plate had he fielded and thrown it cleanly.
2006-05-18 12:16:33
223.   rbj
Three innings left. Plenty of time to get some runs.
2006-05-18 12:17:33
224.   wsporter
207 Um in 176 you seem to suggest that they should not bring Proctor in because he is over worked. They did not, hence they "heard" you. You also opine that they should bring in Farnsworth. They did not, hence they only "heard' part of what you said.
2006-05-18 12:17:33
225.   Cliff Corcoran
220 Erickson had a heyday in Baltimore? I thought he was a league average guy who built a career off a 20-win season that ended in a World Championship in his sophomore season. Oh wait. He was.
2006-05-18 12:18:36
226.   Rob Gee
221 Brainfart today?

The man's an addict!

2006-05-18 12:18:40
227.   Schteeve
221 How did Torre have a brainfart? Did Torre make Cano fuck up that DP? Did Cashman? No, Robbie could have ended the inning right there...and he BUH-LEW IT!
2006-05-18 12:18:43
228.   Shaun P
I like getting Jorge some rest as much as anyone else, but I think its about time he got into this game, no?

C'mon Melky, show a good eye here . . .

2006-05-18 12:19:37
229.   Schteeve
225 Cliff, I didn't say he was good, but it was still his heydey. It was when he was at his most valued by others. Sheesh.
2006-05-18 12:19:43
230.   wsporter
Strained right hammy for Bubba. CRAP.
2006-05-18 12:20:02
231.   C2Coke
BTW, sorry for the late update I was too busy throwing up...

When Wright hit DeRosa, Jeter was in position ready to make a catch like always, then the hit...Jeter made a face something like rolling his eyeballs then lowered his head almost near the ground and did not come for at least 2 seconds.

2006-05-18 12:21:15
232.   Schteeve
It's time for Kevin Reese to earn his $54.25 contract already, sheesh!
2006-05-18 12:22:10
233.   Shaun P
Thank you Melky Cabrera for doing what Bernie Williams cannot do (at least while batting lefty) - draw a bloody walk!!

Why isn't the kid playing every inning of every game??

2006-05-18 12:22:36
234.   C2Coke
230 I was watching the game and still can't really figure out how he hurt himself except that catch he was trying hard to make. But it didn't look serious. Bad feng-shui in the Stadium!
2006-05-18 12:22:40
235.   Marcus
There's more than one way to make productive outs like Reese's.

Rally time.

2006-05-18 12:23:01
236.   Rob Gee
Wow, Reese's publicist needs to work on getting him a new photo on Gameday.
2006-05-18 12:23:06
237.   C2Coke
I was thinking when Posada is going to PH.
2006-05-18 12:23:13
238.   wsporter
232 You expect more than that from a guy making minimum wage. No?

228 MFD You called it.

2006-05-18 12:23:18
239.   rbj
228 Ask & ye shall receive.
2006-05-18 12:23:57
240.   Rob Gee
At least one good move here in seeing Jorge.
2006-05-18 12:24:14
241.   Cliff Corcoran
229 I was just being grumpy about Erickson, not criticizing your comment. Sorry if I came off as aggressive there.

I see they've announced Bubba with a left leg injury. Any more details from the broadcast?

Here's Jorge. With two out men on second and third.

2006-05-18 12:24:33
242.   Schteeve
238 Yeah what a Choke Artist that guy is.
2006-05-18 12:26:02
243.   Marcus
Is Jorge really batting right handed right now? That's what Gameday shows. I guess that means no HR (6 HRs this season, all LH).
2006-05-18 12:26:04
244.   C2Coke
hmm...Padilla's still working on a SCORELESS game??
2006-05-18 12:27:45
245.   dwight45
243 Gameday's off. He's hittin' left.
2006-05-18 12:28:00
246.   Schteeve
Alright, it's up to Johnny Bone Chips
2006-05-18 12:28:23
247.   C2Coke
243 No...Posada was batting left handed and was walked, base loaded but...Damon is coming up.
2006-05-18 12:28:38
248.   Marcus
245 Sorry I was wrong, Gameday showed it correctly. Brainfart.
2006-05-18 12:29:17
249.   wsporter
Boy that's the 2nd or 3rd time they've done that to Padilla today (caling time in the middle of his wind up) he must be pissed.
2006-05-18 12:29:19
250.   Marcus
248 I take that back. Double brain fart. Ignore me.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2006-05-18 12:29:21
251.   Rob Gee
241 Strained right hammy for Bubba 230.

Any bets: Thompson or Long?

2006-05-18 12:29:26
252.   Cliff Corcoran
I would have walked him too. Smart move by Padilla/Showalter, the unintential intentional walk.
2006-05-18 12:30:25
253.   Shaun P
244 That is a GREAT point, C2Coke. Of course, now Cordero is working on a SCORELESS game.

And yes Cliff, I know it really only works for perfect games and no hitters - but can it really hurt to try?

239 If only my asking about Erickson and Phillips and Bean and Smith and Sturtze worked!!

2006-05-18 12:31:14
254.   C2Coke
252 Posada is indeed the hot hitter now. And Damon is on deck.
2006-05-18 12:31:28
255.   BklynBmr
Great time to bust the slump!
2006-05-18 12:31:31
256.   wsporter
Cashman you IDIOT!
2006-05-18 12:31:45
257.   Cliff Corcoran
251 Is it a DL situation or day-to-day. If it's the DL, it's Thompson. Long a) isn't under contract yet (that move hasn't happened, it's still speculation) and b) would need a Carlos Pena stint in AAA to get up to his normal level of suck.
2006-05-18 12:31:46
258.   rbj
Pitching change?
2006-05-18 12:31:57
259.   Shaun P
251 Thompson, if only because they'll need an extra OF for Shea tomorrow, and Long hasn't even signed yet - I hope.
2006-05-18 12:32:36
260.   wsporter
Man that is an impressive little stat line the Captain throws up there.
2006-05-18 12:32:40
261.   Benjamin Kabak
The error by Cano looms large.
2006-05-18 12:33:03
262.   Shaun P
256 MFD - What happened? What did I miss? Gameday crapped out on me.
2006-05-18 12:33:30
263.   Cliff Corcoran
Gameday is wigging out, can someone please help with some play by play.
2006-05-18 12:33:53
264.   Marcus
Damon is now 5 for 6 this season with the bases loaded. Not bad at all.
2006-05-18 12:34:13
265.   Benjamin Kabak
Jeter strikes out following a two-run single by Damon. 4-2 after the 7th.
2006-05-18 12:34:20
266.   rbj
Long signed with the Clippers yesterday. They also have Rob Stratton down there as well -- who was released by Louisville earlier this year.
2006-05-18 12:34:46
267.   wsporter
259 Damon 2 RBI single to left.
2006-05-18 12:35:04
268.   Cliff Corcoran
Rebooted Gameday, two-RBI single for Damon, Jeter Ks swinging. 4-2 Rangers top eight. Farnsworth time, please.
2006-05-18 12:35:43
269.   wsporter
Jeter k's on foul tip (3 pitch ab)
2006-05-18 12:35:54
270.   C2Coke
The team needs Posada.
2006-05-18 12:36:04
271.   rbj
Dang, Gamecast & Yahoo sports are also way behind. Two innings left.
2006-05-18 12:36:15
272.   Shaun P
Please someone, anyone, tell me that Erickson is not still in the game. I'd even take Scott Karsay Proctor right now.
2006-05-18 12:36:56
273.   Shaun P
Thanks all for the updates. Damon has done quite well, hasn't he?
2006-05-18 12:36:56
274.   BklynBmr
Erikson still in, Mench grounds out 6-3.
2006-05-18 12:37:02
275.   Benjamin Kabak
Erickson is still on the mound. WHY? WHY? WHY?
2006-05-18 12:37:34
276.   Benjamin Kabak
OMG, Bobby Murcer is talking about Scott Erickson as a PERMANENT replacement for Sturtze in the bullpen. Disaster.

Colter Bean!

2006-05-18 12:37:35
277.   wsporter
272 MFD Yeah he's in there, sorry. Are you back on, it seems to be up?
2006-05-18 12:38:04
278.   Cliff Corcoran
266 The Post story from today's paper says the Yanks were merely "close to inking" Long.
2006-05-18 12:38:46
279.   BklynBmr
Wilkerson grounds out to Cano. 2 down...
2006-05-18 12:38:47
280.   wsporter
Cliff, no details re: DL possibility on Bubba.
2006-05-18 12:39:48
281.   Cliff Corcoran
280 Joe's postgame talk might have some. Thanks, wsporter.
2006-05-18 12:40:03
282.   BklynBmr
DeRosa walks on 5 pitches...
2006-05-18 12:40:58
283.   Benjamin Kabak
If Joe won't take a look at Colter Bean, what about Ramiro Mendoza? He's throwing really well at Columbus and had MUCH better numbers than Erickson. Mendoza, an old veteran I can support.
2006-05-18 12:41:21
284.   BklynBmr
Villone's up...
2006-05-18 12:42:14
285.   Shaun P
Erickson so far: 14 strikes, 18 balls.

Hmmm . . .

Why is Ron Villone on this team? Seriously.

2006-05-18 12:42:21
286.   Cliff Corcoran
283 Indeed, Mendoza is like Cashman's secret weapon against Joe's veteranitis. The good news on Erickson, for us not the game, is that he walks a ton of guys and Joe hates that.
2006-05-18 12:43:06
287.   rbj
Long's on the Columbus roster:
but it may just be a minor league issue in that the Clippers need a body, what with Melky's & Reese's call ups.
2006-05-18 12:43:07
288.   Shaun P
19 balls now.

Batting average aside, Jimenez has always had a good eye. But this is ridiculous.

2006-05-18 12:43:12
289.   BklynBmr
Jimenez grounds out to Cano on 3-1 count. 3 out...
2006-05-18 12:43:49
290.   wsporter
266 rbj that's some cold comfort no matter how it's sliced. Can't believe either will see the light of day in the Bronx. Andy will play RF before Long ever does and Pena will come up. Calm down everybody.

Long would sign with the Yankees and be assigned to Columbus if it were (yak) to happen.

2006-05-18 12:46:53
291.   rbj
Good start Jason.
2006-05-18 12:47:11
292.   Rob Gee
290 wsport, need I remind you that we just saw Scott Erickson pitch two innings (starting in the 7th) in a two run game?
2006-05-18 12:49:06
293.   Shaun P
MVP, there's no need to hit a homer here - it would be nice, don't get me wrong - just don't make an out, OK?
2006-05-18 12:51:13
294.   dwight45
276 Not sure who you are referring to. Murcer isn't broadcasting today on YES. It's Singleton and Kaat.
2006-05-18 12:51:23
295.   wsporter
292 Rob, am I missing something. He did keep it a 2 run game.

Do you mean that the judgment of anyone who would allow that to happen (Erickson back out there) is so askew that it is likely they would commit the outrage of brinning Long to the Bronx?

No Rob you musn't say that nor should you think that way. IT won't, it can't, it must never happen. No. No. No. No.

2006-05-18 12:56:12
296.   Shaun P
Way to battle, kid, just don't make an out . . .
2006-05-18 12:56:19
297.   Benjamin Kabak
294 Kaat. My bad. I'm not paying complete attention. I'm trying to work too. Oops.
2006-05-18 12:56:32
298.   Shaun P
Sigh. Didn't ask soon enough 296.
2006-05-18 12:57:04
299.   C2Coke
Today the Yanks with runners in postition 1 for 9.
2006-05-18 12:58:28
300.   Cliff Corcoran
293, 296 Shaun, I don't think that's working for you.
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2006-05-18 12:59:19
301.   Rob Gee
And Erickson strikes again!
2006-05-18 12:59:30
302.   C2Coke
Why's Erikson still in there?
2006-05-18 13:00:17
303.   Benjamin Kabak
Jaret Wright does not deserve the L today.

Scott Erickson does. Too bad scoring doesn't work that way. Seriously. Get him the f* out of there.

2006-05-18 13:00:51
304.   yankaholic
Reese draws a walk.. Posada singles... Damon hits a HR.. we all go home happy.. Ouch.. i hurt my head when i hit the table dreaming abt that..
2006-05-18 13:00:53
305.   Rob Gee
38 pitches, 17 for strikes

Pick a random farmhand - they can't do better than this?

2006-05-18 13:01:17
306.   yankaholic
Reese draws a walk.. Posada singles... Damon hits a HR.. we all go home happy.. Ouch.. i hurt my head when i hit the table dreaming abt that..
2006-05-18 13:01:23
307.   yankaholic
Reese draws a walk.. Posada singles... Damon hits a HR.. we all go home happy.. Ouch.. i hurt my head when i hit the table dreaming abt that..
2006-05-18 13:01:25
308.   yankaholic
Reese draws a walk.. Posada singles... Damon hits a HR.. we all go home happy.. Ouch.. i hurt my head when i hit the table dreaming abt that..
2006-05-18 13:01:28
309.   rbj
302 Only thing I can think of is to save everyone else for the Mets & Sox. hey, maybe Erickson's arm falls off sooner this way.
2006-05-18 13:01:49
310.   Shaun P
$#^((#(&$# #(&#@$ #$(#@$!@!!!!!

(long string of curses removed because this is, after all, a family site)

Rob I'm really close to being on board now . . .

2006-05-18 13:02:57
311.   Cliff Corcoran
I can deal with losing this game if the Yankees release Erickson afterwords. In fact, let them lose 12-2 if it'll get Erickson gone.

I swear, if he looked like Don Mossi (or Tim Belcher) he'd have been forced to retire five years ago. But his eyes are so blue . . .

2006-05-18 13:03:30
312.   yankaholic
Sorry abt multiple posts guys, i hit refresh and hence the incovenience
2006-05-18 13:04:38
313.   Rob Gee
311 And his wife is hot!! Gotta love Lisa around the clubhouse!
2006-05-18 13:04:46
314.   vockins
2006-05-18 13:05:16
315.   Cliff Corcoran
Another walk, his fourth in 2 0/3 IP. Yes, more of that Scottie! Pitch your way off this team! Walks and homers! Clap clap clapclapclap
2006-05-18 13:05:59
316.   Cliff Corcoran
Another walk, his fourth in 2 0/3 IP. Yes, more of that Scottie! Pitch your way off this team! Walks and homers! Clap clap clapclapclap

Oh, Torre ruined my fun by bringing in Ron "These Are The Innings You Give Me?" Villone.

2006-05-18 13:06:07
317.   wsporter
Are you kidding me. I had to leave for ten minutes. We had runners on first and second. I come back and freaking Erickson is still in the game and were now down 3. What the F happened. I feel like Steve McQueen at the end of the "Sand Pebbles".
2006-05-18 13:06:53
318.   Shaun P
Ah, I see, now its time for Villone to pitch.

You know, when the Yanks are down by 3.

Not when the Yanks are down by 2. No, that's not enough runs to be down by to let Villone pitch.

Way to not let the game get more out of hand, Joe. I guess the 4th walk, after the home run, was just the straw that broke Joey Four Rings' back, huh? Because 3 walks and a homer just weren't enough.

Man, I am not happy with the Yanks today.

2006-05-18 13:07:57
319.   standuptriple
313 Maybe Jeter can just put a move on her. Problem solved.
2006-05-18 13:08:30
320.   Shaun P
Somewhere, Bob Timmerman is holding back and being very kind by not typing, "I told you all so" re: Erickson.

Thank you Bob for holding back, but if you want to say it, go ahead. We all know you're thinking it, and we don't blame you at all.

2006-05-18 13:08:57
321.   Rob Gee
Let us not forget this game:

4-2 in the 9th inning and Erickson was working his third inning.

After a homer to Barajas, a walk to Matthews.

Blame Torre all you want NoMaas, but this fault lies with Erickson being on the team in the first place.

Reason would have Erickson gone tomorrow. Fact will have him with the team until Dotel or Mendoza are 'ready'.

2006-05-18 13:09:33
322.   Cliff Corcoran
Someone has to interview Giambi about Erickson after the game. Stewie Griffin would be ideal: "Nice find there, guy. Way to go. Where'd you find him? Real eye for talent you got there. You're a regular birddog. Good scouting. Think you might . . . think you might do that after you're done playing? Be a scout? Birddog? Huh? Whadyou say?"
2006-05-18 13:10:06
323.   wsporter
311 Easy big fella.
2006-05-18 13:11:46
324.   rabid stan
320 I don't see how he would be able to tell anyone "I told ya so."

Nobody ever said otherwise.

2006-05-18 13:12:40
325.   Shaun P

Thanks Cliff, I think we all needed that.

Maybe Giambi was looking to put the moves on Lisa G? ;) (just kidding!)

2006-05-18 13:12:45
326.   rbj
Is Villone Italian?
Joe Pepitone has a story about "some guys" who were upset that someone was playing in front of him, but Joe begged them off. Maybe Erickson could have an accident; doesn't need to be major, just a torn rotator cuff or sum'in.
2006-05-18 13:13:40
327.   wsporter
Cano makes the play no runs score. Erickson should not have been brought out to pitch the 9th. I'm not happy about him being here but he certainly had some help today.
2006-05-18 13:14:35
328.   Rob Gee
311 Seriously though, that's exactly why he still has a job.

Love the bit in Blink (Gladwell) about the classical musicians and the effect of screened auditions (so the reviewers couldn't see the musicians).

Go figure, they got better musicians.

2006-05-18 13:15:49
329.   wsporter
How many inning has Villone thrown the last 10 days? Is it any wonder that his mechanics are wacked?
2006-05-18 13:16:09
330.   rabid stan
Villone's gonna pitch himself into early retirement at this rate. He was already deep enough in the doghouse.
2006-05-18 13:17:39
331.   Rob Gee
BTW: Who ever thought that Villone would be some hero for this team?

Really? He's decent but only as an innings eater - never been a stopper.

2006-05-18 13:19:10
332.   Rob Gee
At this rate, they'll keep Erickson and let go of Villone.
2006-05-18 13:19:24
333.   rbj
I'm not going to feel too bad about this loss. Wright's shown he has life left in him, and those runs don't score if Robbie doesn't boot the ball.

It's probably too much to ask for that Erickson gets released.

2006-05-18 13:19:46
334.   claybeez
Does any third baseman turn the dp slower than A-Rod? Seriously?
2006-05-18 13:20:23
335.   Shaun P
I see that Villone has Erickson-itis.

SIGH. If he wasn't buried before, he will be now.

I hate saying this because I'm usually an optimist (see 293 296) but I think tocho had the right idea 221.

2006-05-18 13:21:02
336.   wsporter
334 Yes, Melvin Mora for one.
2006-05-18 13:22:16
337.   Start Spreading the News
118 So you want to judge Cashman's moves based on this year's signings.
Damon -- very good signing. Team ERA drop may be due to improved CF defense.
Stinnett -- decent signing. His career OPS is one of the best for backup catchers in the AL.
Farns -- very good signing. His numbers last year were as good as Gordon's. Both are headcases under pressure. Farnsworth is much younger. Gordon got a 3 year contract to be a closer at the age of 42. We would have had to give him more money to be a setup guy since he wanted to close.
Myers -- Very good signing. Last year, lefties had an OPS of 407 against him.
Dotel -- Excellent siging. Hopefully a Lieber type resurrection. Dotel was great when healthy. Obviously a risky siging. But for $2mill, it is worth it.
Villone -- Very good signing. Lefties batted 580 OPS last year. Not as impressive as Myers but pretty good.Three year average has batters with a .227 off him from left side and .238 off the right side. More flexible than Myers.
Sturtze -- Torre fav. What can you do? Besides bring in Farnsworth and Dotel and Small as backup for when the inevitable implosion takes place.
Erickson -- do not like this siging.
Cairo -- Do not like this signing. But another Torre fav. Versatile player. Torre remembers the .300 hitter with Yanks.
Bernie -- Farewell tour. Probably had to do this given Boss pressure and Torre pressure.

Altogether, I see a decent job. Overall the team has improved defensively just by having Bernie not in center and Damon doing a decent job. The bench sucks which you have to blame Cashman for AND Torre. Cashman has given Torre decent tools but Torre refuses to use them -- see Bernie start in Center today as an example.

At some point, the GM also has to know what the manager will do and accomodate that. See Boston and their managerial struggles. See Oakland tell their managers NOT to bunt and if they listened in the past. In the end, both Boston and Oakland hired new managers on their willingness to listen to the organizational strategy.

Torre will not go along with that. Cashman already beat Tampa. Does he really want to take on Torre as well? Or work with him. If he works with him, he has to get him Torre-type players, like Ericson.

2006-05-18 13:23:04
338.   mehmattski
Let me get this straight- people are giving Villone a break on his terrible control because he hasn't pitched... and yet Erickson's four walks is further evidence that he sucks? Here's a thought- Torre knows that Villone has never been a good pitcher, and neither he nor Erickson should be on the roster.

How about we stop paying $10 million for a mediocre bullpen and let the young guys pitch?

2006-05-18 13:23:20
339.   wsporter
Otsuka. I have fond memories of this guy.
2006-05-18 13:24:54
340.   Benjamin Kabak
337 How can you judge Dotel to be an "excellent" signing? The guy has yet to pitch in the Big Leagues for the Yanks. If his arm holds up, sure, great signing. But you just can't judge that yet. And Stinnett has been horrible this year.

BTW, who punched Kevin Reese in the face for his Gameday picture?

2006-05-18 13:27:05
341.   Shaun P
338 I'm all for letting the kids pitch, but at least Villone has a track record of being a league-average guy, and sometimes he's been better than that.

Erickson's track record is 100% puke-worthy vomit-inducing awful.

Besides, there's a huge flaw in your argument - if Villone 'has never been a good pitcher', and Torre knows that, why is it that Torre keeps running Erickson out there? Does he somehow only know Villone's bad stats (which aren't that bad) and not know Erickson's awful stats?

I'm just saying . . .

2006-05-18 13:27:53
342.   C2Coke
I guess everyone including the ones in the dugout is anxious to get to the weekend with the Mets and then the Sox. So let's just let go of this one and go home and rest until tomorrow.
2006-05-18 13:29:00
343.   rbj
I agree. Gotta leave work now anyhow.
2006-05-18 13:32:01
344.   wsporter
338 I can't agree with that assessment. Except for his stint with Florida last year Villone has been way above replacement level over the last 3 years. Erickson has been staring up at replacement level for years.

Villone has been under used for the last several weeks. As Kitty said he may be in a situation now where he has lost both his mechanics and arm strength.

Erickson and Villone are completely different creatures when they are compared as Bull Pen assets.

2006-05-18 13:35:53
345.   Shaun P
344 Well said, MFD. That's one of the things I love about Kitty - he's never afraid to offer constructive criticism.

I suppose in the back of his mind he knows he could get another broadcasting job just about anywhere if YES was to let him go.

2006-05-18 13:37:07
346.   C2Coke
Who else is also super excited about Saturday with the matchup of Moose and Martinez??

Can't say the same about tomorrow though.

2006-05-18 13:38:11
347.   mehmattski
341 You're right, I should have taken the time and looked up the stats before I posted. In fact, going into today's game, Villone had pitched 13.2 innings, which is more than Sturtze, Small, and Myers. Perception isn't everything.

One thing I've noticed from Torre over the last several years is that when a pitcher gets added to his pen, he uses the guy relatively quickly. It seems as though he wants to see what he's got from the guy right off. Yes, perhaps that sways his usage based on a small sample size, but it also might explain why Erickson today.

My point was that in the effort to avoid results-based snap judgement (instead of relying on past performance), a hasty conclusion was drawn on Erickson today when Villone looked just as bad.

And I too, need some Listerine to get the bad taste of Yankees pitching out of my mouth.

2006-05-18 13:40:23
348.   C2Coke
Is it morally wrong to be happy about Sturtze's season-ending surgery? I apologize if it is.
On the other hand, I do hope Crosby is okay.
2006-05-18 13:43:43
349.   wsporter
345 MFD Sometimes he is a total down buzz or he just harps away on obvious points but he does know a lot about pitching and does seem to have an interesting or provocative comment to make occasionally. He however does not inspire me to forget the golden days of Scooter, White and Messer.

He can be a little "bitchy" every now and then too which is why I like (Robs?) nickname for him – "Kitty". When I listen to other feeds on MLB I do appreciate him more. The alternative is just awful.

2006-05-18 13:45:29
350.   Start Spreading the News
Villone hasn't been bad for the Yanks this year. His numbers this year includes an ERA of 2.45 and a WHIP of 1.36. Lefties were batting .182 and righties, .250. Of course today's numbers were not included.

340 I am saying the signing is "excellent" because Cashman is being agressive in trying to spend less money. To do so, he has to take risks. A more conservative manager may not sign injured players. Then you pay more money for more proven commodities. Taking a chance on an injured player is risky. It worked with Lieber and I give him credit for trying again.

I do like the fact the Cashman is being more creative and looking at injured players as potential money savers. Money which could then be spent on on dental plans...

As for Stinnett, he has been horrible in 25 ABs. Over a 129 ABs last year, he was much better. And he is still an improvement over Flaherty. And he used to catch Randy Johnson which is no doubt a factor if Torre were going to keep using a personal catcher for the Unit.

Once again, you can only judge a GM based on the info he has at the time. If he makes bad decisions based on the info, then he is a bad manager. If he makes the right move but the move is still a bust (see Jose Contreras), can you still blame the man in hindsight?

Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2006-05-18 14:08:49
351.   wsporter
Any word on Bubba? If anyone has access to Mr. Torre's Post Game and the give an update would you post the news? Thanks.
2006-05-18 14:25:09
352.   rabid stan
346 I was jonesing for a Randy Johnson/Jose Lima showdown tomorrow myself.

As soon as I heard Lima was coming to the Mets, I was salivating over the possiblity. I was so happy when they decided to give him at least one more start this week... if only Lima and Gonzales were swapped in the rotation order.

It would have brought back fond memories of the NL West in '04 for Unit and the Time.

I guess I'll have to settle for seeing the two best pitchers in their respective divisions go at it on Saturday instead. sigh

2006-05-18 15:23:12
353.   yankz
Wright turned in a quality start, and has looked better lately. Maybe he could be league average this year?
2006-05-18 15:28:08
354.   C2Coke
Why is there no official word on Crosby yet? That can't be a good sign.
2006-05-18 15:29:45
355.   randym77
Bubba's day-to-day.
2006-05-18 15:38:21
356.   wsporter
355 Whew, that's good news. Where did you see it?
2006-05-18 15:39:34
357.   Stormer Sports
Note to all MLB Gm's: If the Dodgers cut a pitcher loose, you don't want him. Maybe Cashman is looking to bring Alvarez out of retirement. Erickson, sheesh. So we have the guts to throw Kevin Reese, Cano, Melky, Bubba, and Phillips out there but not Bean or Smith? I don't think many of us were criticizing Cashman's 2006 deals, what we were saying is that the Erickson signing was so in-your-face ridiculous, you had to point it out for what it was.

On a side note, be happy that we have George Steinbrenner as our owner and not the team out as MSG. Firing Larry Brown and giving him 40 Mil.! Who the hell is Isiah Thomas blowing? How can anyone with a third grade education think this guy deserves a job? You're seeing the defensive breakdown in the Cav's series that would not happen if Brown was still there. Sure, he has difficulty staying in one place, but to trade 40 Mil. for Stephon Marbury and continuing on with the worst GM in professional sports is craziness. Something is rotten.

2006-05-18 15:42:34
358.   randym77
356 It was announced during the game on the USA Today live update. (The only one not blocked at my office.)

"AL Texas at N.Y. Yankees Yankees LF Bubba Crosby left today's game in the 5th inning with a strained right hamstring. He is listed as day-to-day."

2006-05-18 15:45:11
359.   Stormer Sports
Not a terrible game though. Padilla pitched well, Wright was as good as we ever expected. The only thing that bugged me is that Arod continued his blue light special on at-bats, prices so low he's practically giving them away.

Otherwise, what can we do, we didnt get timely hits, made a couple silly errors, and faced a guy who was clearly on his game.

What's the word on Sheff?

Pavano leaves in the 1st yesterday? What happened? Should I just concede that he will never pitch again?

2006-05-18 15:51:55
360.   wsporter
358 Thanks Randy, weird the Yankees didn't come out with it. That's NY Football Giant like circumspection.
2006-05-18 16:16:45
361.   randym77
In the post-game interview, Joe Torre said he didn't know what the deal was with Bubba.

But it doesn't seem to be too serious. Contrary to some reports, he was not carried off the field. He wasn't even helped off the field. He ran to 1B...just not very well. It would have been a standup double for him if he ran as fast as he usually does.

The problem, as they pointed out in the postgame show, is that so much of his game is running. He could make it worse if he goes back out there too soon.

I can't believe it. He runs smack into Sheff, and into Jeter, and only his pride is hurt. He makes spectacular acrobatic catches, and lands hard on the warning track, and bounces right up again. He strains a hamstring as he's running out of the batter's box on a routine double.

We're cursed, I swear.

2006-05-18 16:31:21
362.   wsporter
361 there was some speculation on the YES telecast that he may have hurt it in the field diving for the single to short left during the prior half inning. Who knows; does seem pretty star crossed at the moment.
2006-05-18 16:33:39
363.   dpmurphy
"Shaun P: Thanks all for the updates. Damon has done quite well, hasn't he?"

On what planet? 1 for 5 with 3 strikeouts. Awful.

"Start Spreading the News : Damon -- very good signing. Team ERA drop may be due to improved CF defense."

You have no idea if this was a good signing.

1. Check out his stats. Going downhill.
2. but it's bc of the injuries right? but that was one reason boston let him go, damon breaking down.
3. improved defense? been shown time and time again at best damon is average. the only reason he improves cf defense at all is it was so bad last year.

Don't get me wrong, it's too early to tell if it was a bad signing, but the yankees are paying damon a lot of money, and at this point you'd have to be crack to call 'great signing'.

2006-05-18 16:35:02
364.   randym77
On a more cheerful note...

USA Today has this article today:

"Author: Flood raised awareness of baseball's inequities"

Yup, it's about Alex's book. An interview with him, actually.

It was a front-page link for awhile today.

2006-05-18 16:47:18
365.   randym77 has this (in the article about the game):


Bubba Crosby, starting in left field, strained his right hamstring while attempting a diving catch in the fifth inning, becoming the third New York outfielder to suffer an injury in less than three weeks.

"It feels like an epidemic," Crosby said. "I finally get an opportunity to help the team out and end up hurting myself. It's just unfortunate. ... The team needed someone like myself to step up and do the best to pick them up. The last thing we needed was another injury."

...Already playing without the services of Gary Sheffield and Hideki Matsui, the Yankees will now likely enter the weekend without Crosby as well. He was not placed on the disabled list after Thursday's game, but could be headed there by Friday morning.


Joe said something along those lines in his post-game interview. That they'd see how he did overnight before making any moves.

2006-05-18 16:59:45
366.   Cliff Corcoran
361 For the eight-zillionth time: Sheffield ran into Crosby on that play. The only thing Bubba did wrong was failing to call Sheff off. Bubba was set up under the ball--he was standing still!--and Sheff jumped on top of him because his back was to Bubba as he was tracking the ball.

359 Stormer, if you read the above post and skimmmed the early comments you'd get the answers to your questions.

2006-05-18 17:02:28
367.   Cliff Corcoran
Oh and 352 it's Gonzalez tomorrow, not Lima. The match-ups are on the sidebar as always.

I swear there are times I feel like I'm typing just to exercise my fingers [mom voice off].

2006-05-18 17:04:13
368.   randym77
Yeah, I don't really blame Bubba for the Sheffield thing. He said it was so loud, due to crowd noise, that they couldn't hear each other even if they did try to call the ball.

Joe just laughed when it happened. He put Bubba out there because he wanted someone who could cover more ground. Well, he covered more ground.

2006-05-18 17:04:45
369.   Cliff Corcoran
From "the Yankees will probably make a roster move on Friday, with Kevin Thompson (.285, 3 HRs, 10 RBIs, 6 SB at Triple-A Columbus) serving as Crosby's likely replacement."
2006-05-18 17:43:30
370.   randym77
They asked the Yankees what they expected of Randy Johnson tomorrow.

The ever-mischievous Jeter said, "I want to see him hit."

Damon added, "Randy's going to get a few knocks and be our best offensive player."

That's what I'm afraid of...

2006-05-18 17:59:10
371.   yankz
369 Who's going down to make room for Kevin #2? #1? Or does that mean Bubba is DL'd?
2006-05-18 18:01:36
372.   yankz
"Pavano Not Optimistic After Leaving Outing"

2006-05-18 18:07:40
373.   randym77
I assume if they call up the other Kevin, it will be because Bubba is DLed.

I honestly don't know what to make of Pavano.

2006-05-18 18:34:47
374.   vockins
372 Good God, what is Pavano's damage? Is there a comparible situation from someone else? I can't think of one. The Yanks should sue him or something. Christ.
2006-05-18 18:43:11
375.   Stormer Sports

It's not like you can blame Pavano. I'm sure he didn't wake up yesterday and say "Gosh, I hope I get hurt today."

I blame Cashman completely for this, and Wright, and Brown.

Pavano has had only 1 season in which he logged 200+ innings.

Jaret Wright has NEVER lopgged a season with 200+ innings or 32+ starts.

Brown was clearly toast before we aquired him.

Look, Cashman had Oakland Raiders disease: watch the championship and sign whoever performs well.

Admittedly I was all for the RJ deal, and I think he'll turn it around, once he gets his head right. But you can't blame these players, we signed them knowing their history. Not to mention giving up on players like Contreras way too soon.

2006-05-18 18:45:42
376.   Stormer Sports
Look at it this way, we are fielding a team roughly equivalent to Boston right now, give or take. Let's see who guts it out, us or them.
2006-05-18 19:16:21
377.   C2Coke

"I'll be back out there this century," quipped Pavano. "I'll definitely be back out there this year. Obviously in a perfect world things like this don't happen; but it hasn't been perfect."

I am sorry to say this but maybe the whole time it was his head.

2006-05-18 19:17:32
378.   C2Coke
Nice USA Today interview with Alex.
2006-05-18 20:11:04
379.   rabid stan
367, 352: I was jonesing for a Randy Johnson/Jose Lima showdown... if only Lima and Gonzales were swapped in the rotation order.

Throw-away post anyway. No worries.

2006-05-18 21:09:01
380.   Cliff Corcoran
379 Reading comprehension problem. Sorry.

Pavano on what's next from 372's link: "No idea. But as far as pitching, I don't think that's the next step at all."

2006-05-18 22:13:22
381.   Zack
What I really don't get is how a bruise can set a guy back months. And not just any bruise, but a bruise on one of the, shall we say, meatiest parts of the body. In any other sport, hell, any other person, would suck it up and at most miss, what, a day or two? Bruises stop hurting after like two days! I played every contact sport imaginable, and have been bruised in every way in all forms of severiety, and I can't fathom a butt bruise being that detrimental. So thats where I really start to wonder. Arm trouble, fine, that makes sense and I could buy into that, but being on the shelf since spring training or so because you bruise your butt is just plain insanity...
2006-05-18 23:42:25
382.   rabid stan
381 Deep tissue bruises can be problematic.

The excess fluids need to be drained periodically, and complications can include anything from organ damage (if the bruise is in the abdomen) to myositis ossificans (and yes, that's exactly what it sounds like). Even muscle death can occur (which is permanently crippling and occaisionally lethal) if the fluids are not drained.

Remember when Shaq had a deep-thigh bruise last year that nagged him for weeks? He could barely hobble around, and he's Shaq. Think about Meat with that injury.

Now of course, Pavano has sustained no such injury. If he did, I'm sure I could hear him whining from my computer in Baltimore. But sometimes bruises, even butt-bruises, can be a big deal.

2006-05-19 03:18:04
383.   randym77
Look at Shawn Chacon. They did the MRI yesterday, and it's just an ordinary bruise on his leg. But by all accounts, a really ugly-looking one. Johnny Damon said it's the worst he's ever seen. He's having trouble even walking now, and we're going on what, two weeks since he got hit by that comebacker?
2006-05-19 03:28:49
384.   Yu-Hsing Chen
At this point, when peole are saying they expect to see Matsui out there again before Pavano... a lot of them aren't really joking ....

Pray the RJ will start finding his strides soon and at least be a capable middle rotation guy most of the time .... if he can even reach that, the Yankee pitching should be alright... (and actually a lot better than people realize....)

Wow, Wang's ERA in May is 2.67 so far... better than Moose in May o_O!!

2006-05-19 03:46:55
385.   randym77
Someone at YES posted the numbers for the just-ended homestand:

2W 0L ERA 1.12

1W 0L ERA 3.29

1W 1L ERA 3.97

0W 2L ERA 5.59

0W 0L ERA 11.99

2006-05-19 04:25:34
386.   randym77
The Post is reporting that Bubba was given until this morning to heal or get DLed. Doctors have nixed Shawn Chacon's start, due "a left shin bruise the size of Guatemala." It will be Aaron Small making the start in his place.
2006-05-19 04:34:38
387.   Shaun P
369 That is great news, Cliff.

362 MFD, boy its hard to ignore those Sox lurkers when they speak right to you. I'll do my best.

364 Congrats Alex, its wonderful to see you getting so much ink, all very well-deserved.

2006-05-19 05:39:29
388.   wsporter
387 MFD Be strong brother, be strong.
2006-05-19 05:44:49
389.   ChuckM
This is what Chacon is dealing with...

The Yanks sent Shawn Chacon to the mound with a severely bruised shin on Tuesday, due in large part to their lack of available options. Chacon had fluid and extreme discoloration, as well as pain when landing on the leg with each pitch, and it showed in his results. The injury should respond to rest and treatment and be only a short term problem.

2006-05-19 06:24:25
390.   jayd
Yute Wants to Know

I always thought that losses counted for a full game while wins counted for 1/2 a game. So at identical 23-15 records with Boston, the Yankees and their loss yesterday went to 23-16 and are now 1/2 game behind Boston.

I am stunned. Baseball math accounts for most if not all of my math skills and here I seem to have unlearned or forgotten something of critical importance.

Can anyone enlighten me? The redsox fan in the cubicle opposite me says "It depends on the percentage." Another argument for allowing weapons in the workplace.

2006-05-19 06:47:34
391.   wsporter
390 Jayd at the risk of being pedantic and I hope this is what you're asking and that I'm not missing a joke but wins and losses count equally. At 23-15 the teams are tied. At 23-16 the Yankees trail by 1/2 game. Had they won, at 24-15 they would lead by 1/2 game.

If the teams stood at 23-15 and 24-16 they would be tied in terms of wins and losses yet the 23-15 team would be in first place by .005 percentage points.

So your Red Sawx buddy has a point but it has a narrow application of sorts.

Speaking of weapons, you don't work for the Post Office do you?

2006-05-19 06:53:21
392.   Rob Gee
Any one else wake up with the taste of bile in their mouth? I mean, f#cking Scott Erickson?

388 I find that the Sux fans don't have much to say when you point out these numbers:

Hanley Ramirez (22 yo):

.331 .394 .481 .875

See, no matter what they think Beckett may accomplish, these numbers will continue to haunt them over the next fifteen years. Good times! And that doesn't include the real 'steals' of the trade - all that pitching!

For all the lost money the Yanks have spent, they haven't made the mistake of trading away susperstar talent. Let's hope it stays that way.

2006-05-19 07:13:36
393.   C2Coke
384 I have high hopes to see Matsui to be back near the end of the season. I don't give a sh*t who Pavano is anymore.

390 Not only the win and loss count equally, the standing is depended on the percentage. You have the number of wins devided by total number of games played. The higher the result the higher the standing.

Or jayd, were you referring to the joke that Boston pulled the last time the Yanks played at Fenway? You know...when they swapped the standings?

As I was checking the standings, I guess I was a little slow...I knew Detriot is doing well but had no idea they have 7 game wining streak...if only that was us...

2006-05-19 07:14:59
394.   C2Coke
292 I don't understand why we don't see Smith??

BTW, the Mets have a higher standing the the Yankees at this point as well.

2006-05-19 07:32:26
395.   wsporter
392 Rob, I have a bad taste about Erickson but it's not because of yesterday's game. Again, if Robie makes a good low throw the runs don't score. Erickson should not have been brought out for the 9th.

I'm disgusted because Mendoza, Beane, Smith etc have been in the organization for some time and all should be given a shot to fill that role first. We need to see what they have and if we can get some value out of them. They were out performing Erickson at Columbus.

Some of this I'm sure is a result of observing Erickson's A-hole act in Charm City. He just came across as an ass hat. He was K. Brown-like in that he sucked and was a jerk. But I know part of it is out of loyalty to guys who have been in the organization and been good soldiers despite being ignored.

Well a new thread's up and I gotta run. See you guys tonight.

2006-05-19 08:53:57
396.   jayd
391 No joke. I did a web search for the official answer and got the following:

Games Behind

The Games Behind is calculated as follows:

GB = (games won by the 1st place team minus games won by any other team) plus (games lost by any other team minus games lost by the 1st place team)) divided by2

Example: if the Reds have won 15 games and lost 4 games and the Blues have won 9 games and lost 10 games we would have:

GB = (15-9)+(10-4)/2 = 6 games behind

The Blues are 6 games behind the Reds.

If the two teams involved do not have the same number of games played, the GB would not be a whole number, example:

If the Reds have won 15 games and lost 4 games (total of games played 19) and the Browns have won 8 games and lost 10 games lost (total of games played 18) we would have:

GB = (15-8)+(10-4)/2 = 6.5 games behind

Then the Browns are 6.5 games behind the Reds.

All makes perfect sense but so many times I've heard about 1/2 game for win column 1 game for loss etc. that I have been mildly surprised. Maybe it's an end of the season thing...

We have so many pitching options; only a matter of time before something shakes out.

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