Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
2005-11-27 12:39
by Alex Belth
Note: The Bronx Banter blog has moved to

Rich Lederer thinks that the Padres are making a huge error letting Brian Giles get away:

I'll take an All-Star and a replacement player over two middle-of-the-road types. In other words, I would have no problem paying a "difference maker" $10 million per season even if it limited me to giving another guy the minimum ($316,000 in 2005). I believe using one's resources in this manner will generally beat the alternative of paying two average players $5 million each, especially when it involves free agents.

Let me be a bit more specific. I think the San Diego Padres are making a big mistake not signing free agent outfielder Brian Giles. The team had reportedly offered him a three-year deal worth $25.5 million earlier this month, then rejected a proposal from his agent for three years at an estimated $30 million.

...Aware that Giles' power totals have receded the past few years, we also drilled down and noticed that his road stats ranked 7th in AVG (.333), 1st in OBP (.463), and 20th in SLG (.545), "while placing 6th in OPS behind only Derrek Lee, Jason Bay, Travis Hafner, Albert Pujols, and Miguel Cabrera. Put another way, Brian outproduced Carlos Delgado, David Ortiz, Alex Rodriguez, Vladimir Guerrero, Andruw Jones, and Manny Ramirez on the road." I forgot to mention last time around that these six players are averaging about $15M per year and $12M even if you exclude A-Rod. This information seems appropro now.

Some think that Giles will eventually wind up in St. Louis. I still hope the Bombers nab him. I think he'd be a fine Yankee.

2005-11-27 14:11:37
1.   debris
I dunno, Alex. No doubt Giles would add more punch to an already punchy enough offense. A quick trip over to BP tells me that Giles, 35 next year, is a lousy defensive right fielder and getting worse.

The last thing the Yankees need right now is the addition of an aging defensive liability in CF, no matter what he adds to the offense.

2005-11-27 14:16:22
2.   Will
Count me as one person against the Yanks acquiring Giles, but then I'm a Red Sox fan! ; )

Hope your holiday weekend was relaxing and enjoyable, Alex & Cliff!


2005-11-27 15:03:40
3.   wsporter
I don't understand why anyone wouldn't want Giles. He'll provide us so much flexibility by allowing Sheff to DH and by allowing him to DH. Is he a great Center Fielder or Right Fielder? No. Will he be adequate for the amount of time he spends there? Yes. Plus he's got just enough red ass attitude to keep everyone interested. I hope he'll be a Yankee soon. Go Gints.
2005-11-27 15:25:19
4.   debris
Will, I'm a Sox fan as well and, frankly, I don't care if they get Giles. Will he make them a better club, yes; a significantly better club, no.

Does he address their pressing needs? Let's see. Can he play adequate defense in center field? No. Can he pitch the 6-7-8th innings? No. Will he give them a solid number 2-3 starter behind Johnson? No. Will he give them a solid leadoff hitter in front of Jeter? No. Will he give them another old, slow rbi guy? Oops, not a pressing need.

2005-11-27 16:15:53
5.   wsporter
He won't sell popcorn either, but he will allow them to play Crosby or someone like him with a light bat in CF for a majority of games and that will go a long way toward filing a big hole. He may be an RBI guy but he's not slow. He'll give us 500 ab's score 80 -100+ runs, drive in 80 -100+ runs, move runners up, not kill rallies or clog the bases and he'll play acceptable defense. My goodness who wouldn't want a guy like that ? I think they could find room for him, not be embarrassed because of it and still find enough spare change laying around to fill some other needs. I'm thinking Larry Lu thinks we shouldn't sign him either.
2005-11-27 16:26:59
6.   singledd
While I would like Giles, how about a guy who is a lefty, 26 years old, and over the last two seasons has posted a batting line of .257 AVG/.388 OBP/.554 SLG (.942 OPS) and tallied 86 homers and 222 walks.

And he's 26 and a lefty.
Can we get it Dunn for Adam?
Money might do the trick.
Did I mention he's 26?
(and a Lefty)?

2005-11-27 16:56:52
7.   murphy
debris: the yankees already have decent leadoff hitter. his name is derek jeter. please see steve goldman's nov. 18 post over at the pinstriped blog.

i stand by my earlier plan:

CF, Crosby
LF, Matsui
RF, Giles
DH, Sheff
1B, Giambi

CF, free agent (of which there will many better ones available)
LF, Matsui
RF, Giles, Crosby, farmhand, or some ridiculous and unavoidable FA pickup
DH, Giles
1B, Giambi

2005-11-27 17:02:31
8.   wsporter
Hey singledd. What do you think we'd have to give up to get him? Do you see him as a Left or Right Fielder, First base or DH or do you care? I like him too but he seems best suited to Left field. Do you think he and Giles are mutually exclusive options? Can we trade Feeley for him?
2005-11-27 17:33:20
9.   joejoejoe
I saw Torre on a CNBC program hosteb by Tim Russert with Willie Randolph, Lou Pinella, and Whitey Herzog. He said he wanted to get faster and not rely so much on home runs and specifically cited teams like the old Whitey Cardinals. I'm not sure Adam Dunn fits in that mold.

Giles and Crosby, yes. Adam Dunn, no.

2005-11-27 17:43:36
10.   singledd
Dunn is 9 years younger then Giles. They are both Zero's on D, but Dunn offers to spell Matsui, Sheff and Jason. I like having Budda as a 4th OF, but not a 3rd. However, I like both Dunn AND Giles... depending on who we can get.

I also like Piazza for a year or 2 as DH, 3rd catcher. Nobody seems to want him. Dunn, Giles and Mike go against my desire for more speed and good D, but I think Dunn will be great at the Stadium and has a lot of good years in him. Piazza is a 1 or 2 year rental and it won't hurt to have an emergency catcher. This is the greatest hitting catcher in history, and I think will be great as a DH.

I don't think there is a really good choice for a CFer this year. I'd rather wait till next year. Don't know how many years Sheff has left in him, so Dunn and/or Giles will be good pickups.

2005-11-27 18:20:31
11.   wsporter
Piazza USED TO BE the greatest hitting catcher like Willie Mays used to be the greatest Center fielder. I think they'd both do us about the same amount of good. If you plug Giles into the lineup you can live with Crosby for a year. Hell he can catch the ball and do so while he's running fast. There's not much available out there this side of sane that can do that anyway. Play the kid. BTW I don't see Giles as a zero on D, at least not in the sense that Piazza is. If Giles is a zero Piazza has to be less than zero.
2005-11-27 18:44:57
12.   joejoejoe
singledd - I agree with most everything you said but remember Adam Dunn had 168 strikeouts last year. I think Torre wants to manage like the 1996 team again, manufacturing runs. Dunn can mash but good pitching gets him out and he is a slump waiting to happen in the playoffs. Torre said speed doesn't go into a slump in the recent Russert interview. That may not describe Giles but look for more aggresive baseball next year from the Yanks. And it's hard to be aggressive on the basepaths when the batter is swinging and missing.
2005-11-27 18:53:56
13.   Rich
Giles would fit perfectly into the quintessential mold of hitter that the Yankees started to acquire when Stick Michael became GM: high OBP with some power. If he has any real interest in playing in NY, the Yankees have to close the deal.
2005-11-27 19:29:20
14.   singledd
joejoejoe - Dunn has a lifetime OBP of .383. Jete's is .386. Dunn is like an imature Giambi. Doesn't have the average but is more powerful.... 1 HR/14.4 ABS!

He's 26 and he's a Lefty.
.963 OPS last year against righties.
Has he peaked or might he get better?

2005-11-27 19:58:52
15.   wsporter
I hope Giles is serious about us. I sense Cashman is cautious about making him an offer thinking he may shop it around or use it to drive up the price at a place he might rather go like St Louis. It looks like this might be one of those winter meeting deals. Cashman is really playing his cards close to his vest. I bet he's got something cooking, things have been unnaturally quiet for a while. We've had years when we didn't do much but I can't remember a year when some "unnamed Yankee executive" wasn't feeding the quote machine. That must be some nice tight language in Cashman's contract. The scribes must be hungry.
2005-11-27 20:08:54
16.   Rich
That's because Cashman's ascendency to greater authority has simultaneously frozen out the Tampa sychophants who feed their need to feel important by leaking info to the press.
2005-11-27 20:42:51
17.   wsporter
Rich, then life is good. Its nice not being the running butt of a stupid Sports Center joke.
2005-11-28 02:57:06
18.   debris
In separate pieces, Rotoworld reported yesterday that it is thought that Giles has no interest in playing for New York and that talks between Giles and the Blue Jays are progressing nicely.

Adam Dunn seems to be wishful thinking. Assuming that they are not going to give him away, what are you suggesting the Yanks might give the Reds in return?

2005-11-28 05:54:44
19.   jedi
We keep on thinking that Giles is the solution to our outfield. Maybe the Yanks are interested in Giles as the next DH? We are getting Giles more for bat arent we? I don't forsee him playing the outfield when you got a faster CF, better arm RF and and above average LF. 35 years old, high OBP, sounds more like DH prototype that this organization is looking for. Wonder if Giles would accept being fulltime DH.

P.S. can we send a mass email to all the sports editors out there and tell them that Giambi is NOT an option as DH. How many times do I have to read the papers and hear Giambi's name associated with being a potential full time DH. The dude plays better when he is on the field. Don't they check their statistics. It proves it. It's freaky but it's true!

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