Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
Serve You Up (Like Stove Top Stuffin')
2005-11-24 05:58
by Alex Belth
Note: The Bronx Banter blog has moved to

Carlos Delgado, who I've always found to be one of the more likable players in the game (he sure has a million-dollar smile), is headed for Flushing, and last night the Phillies sent Jim Thome to the White Sox in exchange for Aaron Rowand and other things. The Yankees had been interested in Chicago's center fielder, and according to Newsday and the Daily News, may now try and work a deal out with the Phillies for their 29-year old part-time center fielder, Jason Michaels.

Brian Giles remains a possibility as well. It appears that he will not be able to work something out with the Padres after all. The San Diego Union-Tribune reports:

The likelihood of Brian Giles returning to the Padres next season took a severe hit yesterday when the club rejected a three-year proposal that the right fielder's agent said was "significantly less" than what Giles can get elsewhere.

"We're going to go forward with the assumption that the Padres and Brian are not able to make a deal," agent Joe Bick said. "We've been holding off moving in a different direction in hopes of getting something done with the Padres, but there's no reason to believe that's going to happen."

..."We felt that if we had made this sort of financial commitment to Giles, it would really not allow us to do much else," [GM, Kevin] Towers said. "We have several areas we need to address. I understand their position, but I do not see us ever meeting that offer. We don't want to put all of our eggs in one basket.

"I don't want to say Giles is a goner. Right now, we're going to look at other places. I'm sure they will as well. But at the dollars right now, I don't see us going there."

The Yankees, Cardinals and Cubs are just three teams that are likely to go there.

Regardless, or irregardless as they sometimes like to say in the Bronx, best wishes to all for a safe, satiating and soporific Holidaze afternoon.

2005-11-24 07:27:46
1.   strangeluck
Its worth noting that the Phillies also have Shane Victorino kicking around in AAA, who might be as good an option as Michaels, when you take the probable cost into account.

Also, has anyone noticed how the Cubs have screwed us by blowing up the reliever market a la the Mets and Kris Benson?

2005-11-24 08:13:58
2.   joejoejoe
Andruw Jones and Vernon Wells are free agents in 2007. I'd rather take a big run at either of them them and live with a subpar platoon in '06. A platoon of Crosby and Micheals plus adding Giles to a 2yr contract works just great for me. Sheffield can DH and Giles in RF and Giambi can play 1B. If you get 130 starts each from Giambi, Giles, and Shef you can pinch hit for CF one at bat a game and put in the other half of the platoon. Ichiro is also a free agent in '07 and from a business point of view Ichiro and Matsui at the corner OF postions would pay a lot of bills. It's not a great upgrade (or any upgrade) but somebody has to pay for the new Yankee Stadium and increasing revenues from the Japan market makes sense.

2006 Outfield
LF - Matsui
CF - Michaels/Crosby
RF - Giles/Sheffield
DH - Giles/Shef/Giambi

2007 Outfield
LF - Matsui
CF - Wells
RF - Giles/Ichiro
DH - Giambi/Giles

2005-11-24 10:21:46
3.   wsporter

Makes sense to me. Give Giles the third year. Hell give him an option for a fourth. We can afford it and Its Not My Money. He'll still play at 38 - 39. Adios Sheff - post 2006.

2005-11-24 10:43:45
4.   Bob Timmermann
The inventor of Stove Top Stuffing passed away very recently

2005-11-24 10:59:32
5.   sabernar
I don't see the Yankes signing Giles AND trading for Michaels. I think it's an either/or situation. I think if the Yanks trade for Michaels then they'll sign a 1B/DH from somewhere and have him platoon with Giambi at 1B.

With all the heat that Cashman is getting, I think he's doing a very smart thing by not doing anything. It seems like he has a plan and it just need time to unfold. Sure, the Cubs overpaid for a couple of relievers that would have looked good on the Yankees, but it seems like the Yanks can't be as spendfree (at least by their standards) as they've been in the past. We'll get our CF and a couple of relievers and probably use some guys from the minors to fill out the pitching staff.

That being said, I certainly wouldn't complain with Giles and Michaels. Looking at Michaels' Rate2, he can really field. I think he's a career 108 in CF.

The one difference with joejoejoe is that I don't think that the Yanks will get Ichiro for 2007. I can see Wells coming here, but I think that Michaels is pretty good, and relatively cheap. Leave him in CF (or move him to RF and sign Wells), then have Giles DH (since he'll be, what, 38 by then?).

2005-11-24 11:12:40
6.   Cliff Corcoran
Sabernar, you may be right, but personally I'd like to see them both in pinstripes. Giles, obvioiusly. Michaels has a career .291/.380/.442 line in the majors and posted a 114 Rate in CF last year. Outstanding. So give Michaels the full-time job in CF, put Giles in RF and let Sheff DH, where he hit .331/.432/.617 from '02-04 and .312/.385/.570 last year.
2005-11-24 11:13:25
7.   Cliff Corcoran
Oh, that last line is vs. a .502 slugging in the OF for Sheff in '05.
2005-11-24 12:04:42
8.   Yankee Fan in Chicago
Per those who suggested signing Michaels and a DH-type -- what about the Big Hurt?

Clearly out now that Thome's in Chicago. I don't know about his foot, but he played well in the limited time he saw last season. I can't imagine his asking price will be that high either. Maybe structure a low-price contract for next year, with a big pay increase for the next season if he reaches certain games played/hits/rbis etc.

2005-11-24 12:14:23
9.   Rich
Now is the time to make Giles a take it or leave offer that no player, who had even a scintillia of interest in playing in New York, could refue. I would even go to 3 years @ $39 million.
2005-11-24 17:27:46
10.   sabernar
I agree, Cliff. The thing that I don't understand is why did the Phils trade for Rowand? Couldn't they trade Thome for someone that played a position that they needed? I guess the minor leaguers they received have a lot of potential and are rated pretty highly, but I think that Michaels is better than Rowand. His fielding numbers are better as well as his offensive numbers. Could this be a case of Rowand's reputation winning out in the end? I hope the Yanks can snag Michaels - his lefty/righty splits are pretty decent, so he should be fine as an everyday player, and possibly a long term solution. I wonder if there is something about him that we don't know about. The Phils also have Endy Chavez, who is just plain horrible.
2005-11-24 18:54:41
11.   susan mullen
The only people I want on the team are people
who want to be here. If they're miserable, they'll make
me miserable. If pitchers want to go to the NL
because it's easier, or because there's too
much "stress" in the Bronx, fine with me. There
are psychological stats, too.
2005-11-25 05:13:19
12.   Simone
Happy Thanksgiving to all!

Did you see that the Red Sox also got Mota in their trade? If the Yankees had made a trade like there would be howling about how this isn't good for baseball, but here is the second highest payroll team simply cleaning up in the Marlins' firesale and all there is the sounds of joy from Peter Gammons.

2005-11-25 05:37:00
13.   sabernar
Normally, I'd agree with Simone, but Mota had a 4.70 ERA in a pitchers park last year. I know he has good stuff, but he just didn't pitch very well last year.
2005-11-25 05:40:17
14.   wsporter
Kicking in Mota really does make this a great deal for the Sawx. He put up some dominant numbers in LA and was ok in Florida, till last year. He'll eat some middle innings for them. It's a shame a team like Florida has to go through these death struggles every few years. It would be nice to see their management team plopped down in a market where they were supported. You get the feeling they could be dominant for a long time. I'm kind of glad we weren't one of the pigs lined up at the trough. This new found discipline is kind of nice or least it will be if we win. I think the problem with these FL fire sales are that they give an appearance that the game is rigged. You know its not , it just kind of looks that way. If we have franchises that can't compete, even with revenue sharing, contract them or move them. This nonsense has got to end.
2005-11-25 06:07:51
15.   joejoejoe
What would Bud Selig do if the Yankees got Barry Zito, Eric Chavez and Ricardo Rincon from the A's for Robinson Cano and Melky Cabrera, Eric Duncan, and Sean Henn? I'm guessing he would veto it. But that trade is better for the A's than this fleecing is for the Marlins. I'm surprised they didn't throw in Miguel Cabrera for Trot Nixon. Ugh.
2005-11-25 06:32:31
16.   Simone
This trade is simply really ridiculous. The Red Sox haven't even had to give up their best pitching prospect and not a peep of outrage from the media about this lopsided deal which really pisses me off.. I'm convinced that this is Loria, Henry and Selig doing their usual under the table business.

I don't feel bad for the Marlins. What Loria did in Montreal was reprehensible. I hope that Miami never builds him a stadium. I'm a huge advocate of contraction myself. There are simply too many teams in MLB. Also, dragging down baseball is that the season is too long.

2005-11-25 13:13:56
17.   standuptriple
I'd like to sit back and imagine that the Mota addition was due to a turkey-induced lapse of judgement, but I simply cannot keep the blinders on. But will ESPNation express a bit of concern over the fleecing of Florida on this deal? Hell no. 3 proven impact players for 4 question marks. Sounds fishy to me (pardon the pun).
I too would like to see the contraction issue raised again. If you can't sustain yourself, then you need to go, plain and simple. Stop the whining and holding your market hostage for a new park.
The idea of cutting the season back to 154 is something I've thought would be a good thing to investigate as well, but since it will hit owners in the pockets and threaten Bud's Interleague play, don't expect that to gain enough mommentum to displace a feather.
2005-11-25 15:41:22
18.   Simone
After watching it on SportsCenter, I repeat, this trade is ridiculous! One of the Boston newspapers said that the Red Sox threatened to stop the deal due to concerns about Beckett's shoulder if the Marlins didn't throw in Mota. WTH is that about? Is this some kind of joke? More like Loria paying off old debts to Henry. I hope at least one NY paper points out how the Yankees would be killed if they had done this deal.

This is the Schilling trade all over again. The Red Sox give up a bag of balls and get a prize from the Arizona who doesn't have one of those players on their team any more. At best, one of those propects will pan out for the Marlins. Hanley Ramirez probably won't be close a superstar like Baseball America and Gammons have been insisting all this team. It will turn out to be all hype and no substance.

2005-11-25 16:16:16
19.   kdw
anyone see anything on ryan going to blue jays for 5 years?
2005-11-25 16:48:23
20.   Simone
I just saw the Ryan deal here:
Can you believe that he got a 5 year contract for $49 million? He is now one of the highest paid closers in the game. This is Mariano Rivera type money.
2005-11-25 16:55:38
21.   wsporter
Maybe one reason there seems to be no concern about this type of trade at the Office of the Commissioner is the APPARENT incestuous relationship shared among the guardians of the sport and the owners. Just one example: Johnathan Mariner, the former CFO of the Marlins under Wayne Huizenga, is the Executive VP and C.F.O. for MLB. When the fox are guarding the hen house should we be surprised that it is so regularly raided? There is at least an appearance of a conflict of interest from the top down. Sure Mr. Selig's family sold the Brewers, but that doesn't mean he lost his sympathy for ownership or "understanding " that business among "friends" is more easily conducted in a collusive atmosphere. The gentlemen who run baseball are well educated, accomplished people who do a great job at what they do. Unfortunately they appear tone deaf at best when it comes to issues like this.

For the last 25 years we have, at intervals, conducted trades that have outraged our competitors. Yet only once in my memory has a trade been set aside , that was one for Vida Blue from Oakland for cash in 76 or 77 by Bowie Kuhn. This crap has been going on for a long time. Given the people running baseball we shouldn't expect too many changes and given our history we as Yankees fans probably won't get much of a hearing at least not without a good deal of pointed laughter in our direction.

Ryan to the Jays is huge especially if they get Burnett. That's big money for that kid. I've seen him a lot down here and he is that good.

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