All Baseball has some recomendations about CF in the Bronx:

Creativity Required In The Bronx
http://www.all-baseball.com/archives/021012.html

They're also apparently going to have to get creative in the bullpen too - why wouldn't Ryan at least give it a shot here? Rivera's getting older, no guarantee he doesn't get hurt at some point...

and then what better place to close games?

If it was my team, I'd start out the year with Sturtze & Proctor, and just keep bringing up a flood of guys from the farm & see who sticks...

Signing Furcal for 2B and moving Robby to CF seems ludicrous. Cano is simply not that fast and would be I'm guessing about equal to Bernie defensively, at least for a season or two. And we'd now have 3 guys playing out of position, and our 3rd worst defensive option at SS actually manning that position.

I'd be happy to have Farnsworth, but I was hoping he'd be a third option beyond Rivera and Ryan. They might now be forced to overpay for Gordon. I'm not really interested in Richardo Rincon either. Matt Smith will get a chance, and is it Cox who is the guy they drafted this past year? How quickly will he move through the system?

Regarding post #2, I don't want Sturtze getting a chance. He's not a good pitcher and it made no sense to pick up his option at $1.5M. What's even worse is that Torre thinks he's a good pitcher, and will likely use him as opposed to giving someone like Smith a real chance.

And there's always Colter Bean :-)

Sturtze is fine - he just can't be used as often as he's been...

IMO he had that one emergency start last season and he never recovered...

Newsday is reporting that BJ Ryan wants no part of pitching in the Bronx. He visited the Mets but showed no love the Yankees way. He thinks pitching at Yankee stadium will cause too much "stress". Looks like Farnsworth will be pitching in pinstripes this year. I am not opposed to Howry, but I do oppose the Farnsworth move.

Brian Giles is 35 years old and the Yankees are going to give him a 3 year deal to play center which isn't his natural position?! I don't get this one at all. The Yankees should strive to be more creative.

Steve Goldman (today's pinstriped blog) has an interesting piece on ARod and his winning the MVP.

The Star Ledger is reporting here http://www.nj.com/yankees/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1132321522114480.xml&coll=1 that Pavano has figured out that NY isn't the place for him and that he wants a trade. Combined with a little creativity, I would think that this would open some new opportunites to get a CF or some bullpen help. If the numbers being bandied about for Burnett are accurate, Pavano's remaining contract isn't obscene, and Cashman ought to be able to find some teams in a position to offer what the Yanks need who are in the market for a pitcher.

I disagree about Sturtze. He's not fine. Even when he had his good streak he didn't strike out guys, though he did show improved control. He's in his mid-30s and has been a mediocrity at best his entire career, save at most a few months. Even last year when the pro-Strutze talk started his overall numbers were not good, and he did not show clear improvement toward the end of the year as was often stated - he had a handful of impressive performances where he came out of the pen early and held the opposition, surrounded by his normal crappy performances, but people only remembered the former. The beginning of '05 was actually better, but to me, no more than a fluke, (BTW, I've been a consistent Sturtze basher since the day they traded for him - my posts on a.s.b.nyy (Kenny1111) confirm that)

Giles wouldn't be the CF for 3 seasons, just for this one (and maybe only a parttime one, at that). Next season, he'd be the RF and Shef would either be gone or he'd DH.

I don't think Giles is going to be the CF full-time. Honestly, I think the Yanks like the flexibility he will give them. For instance:

1) OF/DH rotation with Shef, Matsui, and Giles. Shef needs more DH duty - last year he practically begged for it. Some days all three will play the OF, and Giambi is the DH. Other days, one of the OF's will DH and Bubba (or if my wish comes true, MIL-ton BRAD-ley) plays CF.

2) Another possibility is they:

a) trade Shef; Giles becomes our RF and we get another CF (MIL-ton BRAD-ley) for this year.

b) don't pick up Shef's option for 2007, and Giles becomes our RF for 2007 and use Shef's money to sign or trade for another CF.

Basically Giles = options, and options are good. For instance, last year our options included: a) Bernie in CF (Giles = big upgrade), b) when Shef was the DH, and he needs to be more often (he said so), Ruben, when healthy was the RF (again Giles = big upgrade). Any way you cut it Giles is a great pick-up and guys like him tend to age more gracefully than others. Plus, he's never hurt.

Ryan: May just be playing "hard to get." His makeup, age and left-handed orientation make him worth over-paying.

Gordon: Age 38 with limited durability, and he's asking for a 3-year closer deal? The Yankees have no business offering him 2 years (as has been reported). Even offering arbitration is dicey, as he could get 6-7 million and be a bust. (I would still recommend offering arbitration on the assumption that he won't accept it.)

Farnsworth: Living in Michigan, I got to see the best of him. Great stuff. Second choice to Ryan only because he is right-handed. Difficult to keep out of a fight. So is Sturtze. So was Gossage. He'll demand a pretty penny (3 years, 7-8 million), but he won't disappoint.

The kids (Proctor, Bean, Smith, Cox, Julianel): I'm all for it, and I certainly would not want to lock them out by stuffing the bullpen with untradeable veterans, but one more proven veteran certainly mitigates the risk.

Pavano: The Yankees may be best off keeping him around for a few months to demonstrate that he is healthy. He will probably give up a few too many home runs, but that would be okay for a team with a low-homer park such as the Dodgers, Padres, Mets, Marlins, Nationals or Tigers. He then may be able to fetch a good trade for any gap that has not yet been filled, such as center fielder, reliever or "apprentice" catcher (Navarro?).

Giles: As has been already stated on this site, the best scenario would be to put Giles in right and trade Sheffield (in the last year of his contract) for a real center fielder (Rowand?).

I'd like to see them go after Bradley whether or not they get Giles. If they get both, they have a lot of flexibility in giving players time at DH. (They are also well-prepared for Bradley getting hurt.)

I'd also love to be rid of Pavano, though as much as I dislike him, he can provide 200 average innings, which has value. I don't know who they'd get in this market to do that. Anything more recent about Matsuzaka's team letting him come over? Last I heard a week or two ago they were against it.

Signing Giles would be a great move. I doubt he'll play much CF, if any. Maybe he's in CF (or Godzilla is) when Groundball Wang pitches.

The Yanks' two biggest offensive sinkholes last year were CF and DH. Signing Giles is a MAJOR upgrade for the DH slot, whether its Giles DHing or Sheff.

Every hitter who starts for the Yanks next year (except Cano) is on the wrong side of 30. Odds are there will be decline. Adding to the offense by signing Giles will help offset that decline - regardless of where he plays.

I'd like to see creativity in putting together the bullpen (trying Matt Smith as a LOOGY? good thinking!) and the bench (please please no more Flaherty). That's where its most needed.

Not enough strikeouts? That's part of your argument against Sturtze? Pfft. Wang doesn't have too many K's either last I looked.

Regardless, 1.5 mil is a drop in the bucket on the Yankee payroll - is it that big of a deal to see what he can do for one more year for that price? If he had gone to free agency this offseason, I would have probably voted for letting him walk, but if you have someone who actually wants the ball in the late innings and wants to pitch in NY, 1.5 mil is a bargain.

If he's indeed in decline, the Yankees will find out pretty quick, and more than likely Sturtze will be on the waiver wire by August. No biggie.

Part of my argument, yes. Most of my argument is that he's had a career of being awful. Part of my argument is that even when he was successful, he failed to throw his supposedly strong fastball by hitters.

As for the money, the Yanks at some point have to start spending wisely, or it will cost them. Repeatedly spending a couple million here and there on players who are easily replaceable takes money away from players who actually can help. Also, they are paying a ~40% tax, so $1.5M is really more than that.

He has shown nothing to deserve a tryout - he's not young, he's old and established--as being a poor pitcher. Also, Torre likes him, which only means that he's a poor pitcher who is going to pitch. It's not that he's in decline, it's that he never was good.

As for Wang & Ks, I am concerned about Wang's low K-rate. He was a little better after the injury than before, IIRC, but still not good enough. I think he was better than that in the minors, though, so I wouldn't count out an improvement.

And kcyanks1 with a shout out for the best CF option: Crazy MIL-ton BRAD-ley! Come on, it's not too late to jump on this bandwagon!

To reiterate the reasons:
1) Cheap (~3 mil/year)
2) Young (27 - Bubba's 29)
3) TUP (headed in the right direction - don't forget extreme pitcher's park that is Dodger Stadium)
4) Crazy (a little will do this team good)

Now, Rowand wouldn't be bad either, but he's older by a year and twice as expensive.
Plus, we'll need to trade twice (2-3 prospects) as much to get him and he's not cukoo for Coco Puffs like Crazy Uncle MIL-ton. This club needs at least one wildcard -even Shef has gone soft.

Is there any sense to asking Sheffield to play some 1b as well, limit his time in RF to maybe 50 games or less? Also give Crosby the bulk of the CF work (I just can't go for that MIL-ton BRAD-ley thing). Signing Giles is huge.
If Sheffield is moved I guess you have to do it for a CF'r and Bull Pen help. One of the columnists at the Post (Joel Sherman?) broke down a couple of deals a few weeks ago and had one to the Chisox around Rowand and a couple of relievers; might make sense but only if Giles is signed. Moving Shef might make us kind of left handed but I guess that depends on who we move him for. He had another trade I think where Shef went to the Mets in a deal worked around Milledge, Heilman. and some other pieces. Didn't seem like enough.
I don't see that Rowand is that much better than Bradley from a performance P.O.V.if at all. There may not that be that big a difference between him and Bubba Crosby for that matter except Rowand hits right handed.
I guess I'd say I agree with Rob Gee about bringing in Giles and shifting some things around. The difference is I'd let Bubba have a shot, and I mean a real shot like they gave Cano. There's just something about the kid I like.
I know we can't have everything but Andy Phillips can flat out rake. Giving Sheffield some 1b ab's might take some time away from him so that might not be such a great thing. If that kid gets 500 - 800 ML ab's under his belt I think he might be tough. I think he'll be good right out of the box though. He deserves a shot. He's kept his yap shut for a couple of years now in a way not many people could have.

Good grief! Are you people listening to yourselves? I think we need to stop re-inventing the wheel here.

The Yankee 2006 lineup is all but set for next year. There is no perfect free agent CF fit this year (oh Carlos Beltran...). Barring a creative trade for a LEGIT CF'er, here's an idea:

Don't do anything. Play Bubba.

"But Bubba will be exposed as the 4th or 5th OF'er that he is."

So what? All we really want/need him to do is catch the damn ball. Any added offense is gravy. Besides, his perfomance down the stretch and against LAA was fine.

Frankly speaking, I could give a flying fart how Wang gets batters out - as long as he gets them out!

The Yankees have to 'spend their money wisely'...? Have you been in a cave since 1973? 1.5 million, in the grand scheme of things in Yankeeland, is still not a lot of money...

Alvaro, this one's for you (from 2005):

Player A (28 years, 11 mil):
in 582 AB's, .266 BA, .330 OBA, .414 SLG, 16 HR, 78 RBI, 17 SB

Player B (27 years, 2.5 mil):
in 283 AB's, .290 BA, .350 OBA, .484 SLG,
13 HR, 38 RBI, 6 SB

Identical in the field (A = .990 FP, 2.55 RF; B = .989 FP 2.56 RF)

For value, Player B wins in a landslide.

Player A = Carlos Beltran
Player B = MIL-ton BRAD-ley

I think the 1st stat you mentioned is the case AGAINST Bradley. Between injuries & suspensions & jailtime, how many games can we expect out of him?

I like the idea of getting Bradley for CF - but the problem is, everyone knows the Dodgers are getting rid of him. If he's non-tendered, the Yanks can outbid everyone to acquire his services. What's some more $$$ . . .

But if the Dodgers hold on to him so they can trade him for something of value - it will be much harder for the Yanks to outbid the field there without sacrificing things we need more. Like the young pitchers. (Note that Eric Duncan isn't a viable option for the Dodgers, who have Andy LaRoche to play 3B and James Looney to play 1B in a couple years.)

In that case I say Bubba is a fine CF.

And lastly, why can't the Yanks have BOTH Giles and Sheffield? I see no need to trade Sheffield unless its a fantastic offer.

Alvaro,

I wouldn't waste my breath if I were you. The moment everyone realized Giles was an option, that whole "We'll give Bubba a real shot" element went right out the window.

Unfortunately.

Rob Gee,

I really, really hate your Milton Bradley in the Bronx scenario; but I hate him playing CF a lot less than I hate Giles playing CF.

Is Paul LoDucca available? I saw the Rockies were interested in him. It'd be nice if the Yankees can get him and solve their Posada/catcher problem that way.

But Rob, you are looking at a very small sample there. And, importantly, the reason that Bradley has so few at bats is because he gets injured. This year he had two different injuries, and missed a lot of his 2003 season with injuries. In fact, hes never played a full season yet. Why not compare their career #s for a better reference. Beltran vs. Bradley: .282 vs. .269 avg, 479. vs. .426 slugging, 162 HR vs. 54 HR, 209 sb vs. 54 sbs, 647 vs 233 rbis. etc. Beltran has two more years of service, but that hardly accounts for the split. The only place they line up is with the same obp, at .350, which isn't good for either, but at least Beltran is making up for it slightly with more power and speed...

Basically, its not an apt ocmparison. While I don't think Beltran is perfect, comapred to Bradley he is far better, so your one year look doesn't really apply.

And on top of all of that, we are talking about a guy who choked his pregnant wife. Not what you want representing your team, reformed or not.

I'm not sure the acquisition of Giles would throw Bubba out the window. The way I see it, they can put Bubba's glove in CF most days while Sheff and Giles split RF/DH; and then on the days Wang pitches, move Giambi to DH, bench Crosby, and put Giles in CF and Sheff in RF.

Shawn Clap -

Even 100 games I'd take from him for the price (3 mil and prospects). As for injuries etc. he played 141 games in 2004 and before that he wasn't a full-time player. BTW: he's 27!

Shaun P. -

Everything you say is correct. But I'll lose enthusiasm if we have to plunk down a few years and more $$$ (3 years/ 15 mil???). He's a risk, no doubt, but better for a one year contract with arbitration increase than multiple years of guaranteed money.

brockdc -
Welcome to the bandwagon (even if it's only half-hearted)!

Zack (from the other thread)-

Now the numbers:
[MB is] 27 - two years younger than Bubba. His first regular playing time (100 games), at the age of 25, had a .922 OPS in Cleveland. Traded to LAD in 2004 (140 games), his numbers drop because he plays in an extreme pitcher's park (splits = .740 OPS home/.823 away). Yeah, last year he got hurt, BUT he had 13 HRs in 283 AB and home/road split (.799 OPS/ .861 away) shows marked IMPROVEMENT in line with TUP.

-end paste-

Now, your last point: I agree, Bradley and Beltran is not an even-steven comparison. One makes ~2.5 mil on one-year deals, while the other will get 119 mil over seven years. My only point to Alvaro was that for much less the cost, we CAN get a very legit CF. Is MB one-fifth the player? Even if Beltran is "far" better (which I'm not granting), he's not that FAR. And since when is 140 games not a good sample? Fact is, only when MB got to LA did he have a full-time job. If he gets hurt, so what? If he causes trouble, again what's the loss? That is, indeed, what Bubba is for. The upside of MB far outweighs the minimal cost.

Dave Buscema thinks the Yankees need another Hideki Matsui:

http://www.recordonline.com/archive/2005/11/17/buscmlb1.htm

But thinks they'll settle for Bubba Crosby.

====

"It's possible," Cashman said of having Crosby start in center. "We have an in-house fly-ball catcher at least. With our lineup (they could compensate for his lack of hitting)."

====

#13. i understand the point you were making, but Farnsworth shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as Gossage. Ever. The guy is a joke.

"Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America". ~Bruce Catton

Face it, Brian Cashman didn't go through what he did in October so that he could import a certified knuckle head like Bradley. Can you just hear Cashman trying to explain that one to the Boss the first time Bradley tosses a fit and stops a game for 5 or 10 minutes. Can you hear the Boss going off on him "I let you drive me nuts so you could do this you little Jiminy Cricket pain in the ass pest bastard etc etc etc". No I just don't see a smart guy like Cashman who apparently has some decent survival skill screwing the pooch for MIL-ton BRAD-ley. Its not going to happen. Don't leave the porch light on, like Jimmy Hoffa, Milton ain't commin home. Not here anyway.

wsporter-

Wait, Bossman is going to have trouble with MIL-ton? You're kidding, right? He has NO trouble with any troublemakers so long as they produce. There a BIG track record there (where shall we begin?).

Now, Cashman may not have the testicular fortitude to make this move. My only point is: He damn-well should. Why? The COST for the TALENT while we get YOUNGER and CRAZIER. Gorilla Bossman will throw [stuff that ryhmes with clit] if a) MIL-ton does not produce; and b) if MIL-ton causes trouble and doesn't produce. Now, because the cost of acquiring said MIL-ton ($3 mil and a prospect) is exceedingly low, the cost of dumping said MIL-ton is just as low if he doesn't produce. But his track record suggests that MIL-ton will produce and far outweigh the cost of getting/having him. and Bossman will smile and be pleased with young Cashman, and maybe shed a tear or two.

#21, the issue with a pitcher who doesn't get many Ks is that he's more dependent on BABIP, which can vary a lot year to year, and is especially a problem with the Yanks' weak defense.

Re Sheff & Giles, I don't see why they need to trade Sheff if they sign Giles. There is plenty of room for both, even if they acquire another CFer, because Sheff, Matsui, and Giles can all spend some time at DH.

Re Bubby, he's not good enough to start, IMO.

Re Roward and Bradley, I agree with Rob that Bradley is a better option. I also would suspect that Roward might command more because the Dodgers really want to get rid of Bradley it seems. He is often hurt which is the downside, but if they sign Giles and get Bradley, they'll be covered if someone is hurt, yet have roles for both as every day players when they are all healthy.

Sign Howry. I wouldn't give Gordon a three year contract no matter what.

Rob, 140 ABs is not a good sample beacuse, for example, Shane Spencer showed a heck of a lot in his first 200 or so at bats, and then, of course, we know the rest. And I am not saying Bubba is a real viable option, but what I am saying, to use your terms, is production and value. Bubba gives us good defense and speed to compliment an offense that doesn't need much more and a pitching staff that greatly needs it. Plus hes as cheap as they come. And then after this season, you reevaluate and improve,.

I think you are vastly overrating Bradley. You keep repeating that you are getting production for value, but look at the batter most similar to him at his age:
Gabe Kapler
Matt Lawton
Todd Hollandsworth
Jackie Jensen
Mike Davis
Jackie Brandt
Larry Hisle
Ray Lankford
Chris James
Mark Whiten

Thanks but no thanks. That screams 4th outfielder to me, which is fine, if you're not talking about a) trading one of your best prospects, and/or b) a complete nut job. I am not sure why you are so obssessed with him and his craziness, but its really not a good kind of craziness, a la Munson, but a bad, distracting insanity a la Manny or T.O. Its one thing to have a Paul O'Neil type competitor who fires up the team and holds everyone accountable, its another thing to have a self-involved, violent, and everyone's out to get me jerk.

kcyanks1-
Welcome to the bandwagon! Let's keep up the momentum! And I agree whole-heartedly, with Giles on-board, Bradley is a great option to have, esp. for the cost.

Zack -

read again:
[MB's] first regular playing time (100 games), at the age of 25, had a .922 OPS in Cleveland. Traded to LAD in 2004 (140 games), his numbers drop because he plays in an extreme pitcher's park (splits = .740 OPS home/.823 away). Yeah, last year he got hurt, BUT he had 13 HRs in 283 AB and home/road split (.799 OPS/ .861 away) shows marked IMPROVEMENT in line with TUP.

2003 = 100 games (not full-time player)
2004 = 140 games
2005 = 75 games (injured)

Since when is 140, or even 100, games not representative?

Even if I agree that MB is a fourth OF (which he isn't), he's a much better option for a 4th than Bubba, and for CF than Matsui or Giles. And as I've said repeatedly, Bubba is still your back-up plan.

The common players comparison is apt, but doesn't address the basic point: We need a CF and MIL-ton plays that position well. Is he a superstar? No. Can he get the job d-u-n? Yup. Is the cost reasonable? Yup. Is he cukoo for coco puffs? Hell, ya. Is a TO or Manny act really going to hurt this team? If it does, we're much worse off than we'd think.

Rob:
Yeah, The Boss will have a problem with MIL-ton if he's Cashman's idea given the power play BC engaged in and apparently won this October. He made the Boss look bad. I think he's on a short leash where the Boss in concerned. Sure he was able to move Billy Connors and the rest of the Tampa mafia under him in the line of communication, but the Boss is still at the top. First time a BC move blows up, look out. I just don't see a guy as smart as Cashman putting his back side on the line for a guy as nutsy fagen as MIL-ton.
I've got to admire you though Rob, you stuck to your guns on this one, so I'll just agree to disagree. It'll be interesting to see what happens. Promise I won't say I told you so.

I am still wondering how Cashman watched Minaya essentially give Mike Cameron to the Padres without so much as a Daily News article speculating how there already was a centerfielder in NY who met or exceeded all of the Yankees needs.

Cameron would have been an absolutely perfect fit for the Yankees; a fast, veteran, GG caliber center fielder. And from the Yankees perspective, Cameron would have been as costly as a six-pack.

Now they're gonna give $30 million to Brian Giles? What the hell kind of solution is that?

Well Rob, if his #s aren't that good in a pitcher's park, Yankee Stadium is no home for him: it played as a more extreme park than Dodgers Stadium...

Zack -

Historically, that statement ("more extreme") is simply not true (http://www.baseball-statistics.com/Ballparks/) (don't trust ESPN - they have a bug in their software). Park factor will jump around and Yankee Stadium did play as more of a pitcher's park in 2005. But usually it's somewhere in the middle.

And it's funny (he he, not ha ha), but Jacobs Field actually played as a pitcher's park in 2003, against historical trends, and MB's splits show this effect (home: .854 OPS/ away: .991). But all of this is besides the point. MIL-ton would be a great pick-up at a low cost to fill our CF need. Did I mention he's 27?

John -

I second you brother. But we'd have to pay more just because of that pesky cross-town rivalry thing. Though keep in mind that there's much more risk with Cameron (7 mil/year and not getting younger at 32) than certain other CF's to be had.

Random thoughts:
Lots of talk here about moving catchers to 1st base, infielders to the outfield, and other position switches. Is it just that easy? Since most of our guys are average or below average in fielding, will moving them to a new position help things? I think not.

Milton Bradley is trouble from head to toe. However, as an experiment, for 3mil/year for one or 2 years, I go for it. If it doesn't work, we can dump him. This is chump change for the Yankees, and it could possibly work out very well. Experiments with old pitchers for 3 years at 16mil/year are a lot more dangerous.

Beltran is NOT a superstar, but still a fine, fine player. His PS 2 years ago was an aberation, but so was last years regular season. I would love to have him on our team. He is NOT worth what he is getting paid, but 13mil/year for 4 years on Matsui is not a great deal. Jetes is making close to 17mil. Just about everyone on our team is paid a bit too much. This is the price for getting whom you want... whatever the cost.

We NEED relief pitching. An above average pen puts us in the PS in '06 with our current lineup... meaning Bubba in CF. I want a CF'er... but if a good fit is not to be had in this year's market, don't force the issue (Furcal or Cano in CF?).

Giles is a great bet, but I hate to get locked into an expensive 3 or 4 year contract.

We already have (on paper) probably the best offensive team in the AL. We need pitching and D. More offense is always attractive, but lets remember what we really need to win the PS (pitching and D).