Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
2005-10-04 11:33
by Cliff Corcoran
Note: The Bronx Banter blog has moved to

As Cartman told Starvin' Marvin in South Park's first Thanksgiving episode

"You see Starvin' Marvin, these are what we call appetizers. This is what you eat before you eat, to make you more hungry."

In the game already underway, Jake Peavy is getting rocked by the Cardinals offense while Chris Carpenter is rolling.

At 4:00 Matt Clement, the pitcher I think the Yankees should have signed this offseason, and Jose Contreras, the one I'm glad they traded last year, match up in Chicago.

If anyone's interested in chatting about this afternoon's action, this is the place to do it.

2005-10-04 11:50:03
1.   Cliff Corcoran
A Reggie Sanders grand slam in the fifth drives Peavy from the game and pretty much puts this one in the books, 8-0 Cards. One could even argue the Padres are already cooked in this series, as most assumed their only chance was to win behind their ace Peavy.
2005-10-04 11:58:58
2.   rbj
That was a short series.
2005-10-04 12:03:48
3.   Schteeve
Nobody really expected the Pads to put up much of a fight. Although I do have to admit I have no idea what the Cards have on offense outside of Pujols.
2005-10-04 12:06:22
4.   incarnadine
It's really unfair that the Cardinals get a first-round bye.

They should put another wild card in when a team is as hapless as these Padres are.

2005-10-04 12:07:28
5.   Schteeve
Khalil "Seriously I'm White" Greene with a sac fly...combeack, on.
2005-10-04 12:07:33
6.   rbj
Aw, how cute. Look everyone, the Padre's scored a run.
2005-10-04 12:17:06
7.   Simone
The Cardinals in 1.
2005-10-04 12:32:14
8.   Cliff Corcoran
Schteeve: Jim Edmonds, the ghost of Larry Walker, and solid OBP from Eckstein. Oh yeah, and fresh salami from Reggie Sanders.

I can't figure the Cards out either. How did they get Chris Carpenter, Matt Morris, Jason Marquis and Jeff Supan to be so effective? And how are they not undermined by the soft side of their batting order?

I thought Joe Sheehan was a fool for picking them to win the NL Central last year. I picked them this year, but still can't figure out what I based that on (default, perhaps).

Here's hoping the Yanks meet them in the Series and I get a chance to take a closer look.

2005-10-04 12:50:40
9.   debris
They announced somewhere around the second inning that the Yankee rotation has been swapped. Wang tomorrow night.
2005-10-04 12:56:32
10.   Cliff Corcoran
Erm, Torre announced Wang in Game 2 followed by Johnson and Chacon yesterday.
2005-10-04 12:59:05
11.   Schteeve
every time I see a cards game on TV Edmonds is in a 6 week slump or has an arrow sticking out of his neck or something.
2005-10-04 13:10:38
12.   jameson and water
Looks like San Diego put up a bit of a fight at the latter end of the game there - scored three runs and left the bases loaded in the ninth.
2005-10-04 13:13:11
13.   jdsarduy
I would have liked to have Matt Clement too but the way he's pitched the second half I'm kind of glad we didn't get him. Jose C is having a good year with the White Sox but I can't blame the Yanks for trading him, I just don't think he have could put up these kind of numbers with the Yanks
2005-10-04 13:15:41
14.   Cliff Corcoran
Indeed, the bullpen shut down the Cards after Sanders' salami and the Pads picked up five runs against the St. Loo pen. Final score 8-5. Gives SD a little more hope than they might have had before, but I still think this one is over.

Sox vs. Sox underway, Renteria on second via a double, Ortiz at the plate.

2005-10-04 13:18:43
15.   Shaun P
I was just going to write about how the Cards got such good relief work from a bullpen that looks average or worse just by names (Cal Eldred? Julian Tavarez? Randy Flores?)

And then I see the final score is 8-5. Never mind.

Their numbers for the regular season were quite good, though. I guess we should throw some props Dave Duncan's way.

BTW, I couldn't figure out why Guillen started Contreras in game 1, given what the Red Sox tend to do to him, but Contreras got 'Mr. Clutch' out with a runner on second. Wonder how it put it altogether this year?

2005-10-04 13:19:48
16.   Shaun P
BTW, that should be "how he put it altogether this year" - and maybe facing the Royals, Tigers, and Twins so often helped.
2005-10-04 13:25:34
17.   Alvaro Espinoza
Grr... I'll never forget the absolute look of trepidation on his face when he pitched against BOS last year. He pitched w/ no guts in '04.

Ooh! Podsednik HBP. Not the way to start a game, Mr. Clement!

2005-10-04 13:27:36
18.   jameson and water
Ooof! And a second hit-by-pitch. Let's go White Sawx, get that small ball going lads.
2005-10-04 13:28:18
19.   Shaun P
Cripes, Ozzie has broken out the small ball crap already. Podsednik gets hit, and Ozzie has the guy hitting .278/.342/.438 BUNT. Against a pitcher with a 5.72 ERA since the ASB. Who then hits Jermaine Dye too.

I'd be screaming bloody murder if I was a White Sox fan. Hope they have a big inning regardless of their manager's stupidity.

2005-10-04 13:34:51
20.   Cliff Corcoran
You've got him dead to rights, Shaun. Plenty of stupid managerial choices thus far today. Two intentional walks in the first inning ordered by Bruce Bochy, now a sac bunt by the second man to come to the plate for the White Sox ordered by Ozzie Guillen. Here's hoping it's Scioscia who makes the stupid moves tonight, and not Joey Hit-and-Run Torre.
2005-10-04 13:38:42
21.   Alvaro Espinoza
2005-10-04 13:39:11
22.   KYK
So 5-0 CWS.
Clement does not look good.
Contreas got Ortiz to strike out.

But as we know with BOS, it ain't over till it's over.

2005-10-04 13:42:47
23.   blue
Clement's 2005 post-season ERA: 45.00
2005-10-04 13:43:31
24.   Shaun P
Thanks Cliff. I guess a 5-0 isn't too bad, even if a 6-0 lead would be better! Now let's see Contreras hold the Saux down, like he did to the Yanks earlier in the year.
2005-10-04 13:47:20
25.   Dan M
Why oh why is Francona starting Millar against the righty?
2005-10-04 13:47:25
26.   Schteeve
I live in Chicago, if by some stroke of luck the WS and the NYY advance to the next round...I'll be so happy.
2005-10-04 14:06:12
27.   randym77
Am I seeing right? Red Sox already down 5-0?
2005-10-04 14:15:13
28.   randym77
Cheez Whiz. It's now 6-0 Chicago.
2005-10-04 14:26:34
29.   Dan M
Looks like I jinxed it with my Millar comment. Contreras returning to form.
2005-10-04 14:38:44
30.   BklynBomber
"Back, Back, Back" has never been sounding sweeter. For some reason Berman is very listenable this afternoon ;-)
2005-10-04 14:42:17
31.   Simone
Clement really is a disaster. Guess he doesn't replace Pedro. Ha.
2005-10-04 15:08:00
32.   marc
for these announcers I can only say never have so many talked so much and said so little.

I guess i'm glad the bosox are losing not necessarily because one team is going to be better or worse to face if we get that far but I just have Yankee-Bosox fatigue. Seems like half our season is with them and I wouldn't mind a break from the rivalry until next year.

2005-10-04 15:14:37
33.   BklynBomber
marc — same here. I don't relish facing any of these teams, but I've definitely seen enough of Trot Nixon's hat, Schilling's fat face and Manny being Manny until next April, thank you.

Let's go ChiSox!

2005-10-04 15:23:26
34.   BklynBomber
Holy smokes! This is a bucket o'WhoopAss opened by Chicago! 12-2 in the 6th...
2005-10-04 15:28:28
35.   BxSparksNYC
As much of Contreras we've seen over the beginning of his career, did anyone see him capable of this game one performance against the Sox? I never had a problem trading him as if he couldn't get it done as a Yankee against Boston then really we had no use for him. That being said, he's performance today has start banter (pardon the pun) among my friends that a) the Yankees can't cultivate talent and b)some people have the makeup to be a Yankee, Jose didn't. IMO the answer is b
2005-10-04 15:28:37
36.   randym77
Man. I think I'd rather play the Red Sox than Chicago.
2005-10-04 15:31:22
37.   tocho
I'm also rooting for the White Sox, but just because I hate the Red ones.

I don't know which one of them I would rather the Yanks face. For now, I just want the Yanks to kick the shit out of the stupid Angels and thier "smart" play. I think the key is to keep Chone out of the basepaths, it reminds me of when the Yanks faced Seattle in '01, the key was keeping Ichiro out of the basepaths and it worked (easier said than done).

I've been to 2 games this season at Yankee Stadium and one of them was the 3-hr, 10 RBI night for A-Rod v the sumo fighter Colon. Here's hoping that both of them repeat such performance.

Let's go Yankeeeeeeees!!!!!!!!!

2005-10-04 15:35:00
38.   Marcus
Podsednik didn't hit a home run all season...until now. They may look bad today, especially against an offensively challenged team like the White Sox, but I don't think any of us will be surprised if the Red Sox come out tomorrow and pull a reversal with Manny jacking 2 HRs and Ortiz doing his usual thing.

Blow out wins are frequently followed by close losses in the playoffs.

2005-10-04 15:40:20
39.   randym77
It's not just this game. It's the games the Yanks played head-to-head with the White Sox. They're a good team, that really played us tough.
2005-10-04 15:40:32
40.   tocho
I always thought Contreras was going to be a great pitcher. The problem is NY and its media.

These guys are human beings and most of the time they are put in no-win situations by the expectations from the media, the fans and the ownership. For some, it is only a question of time before they explode (Weaver, Contreras, Javy), for others it takes some time for them to adapt and learn to live with it (Clemens, ARod, Giambi, RJ, Matsui) and others thrive in such an atmosphere from day one (Sheff is the only example I can think of). Its just part of the expectations in a big market team, see for example Clement and Renteria.

2005-10-04 15:48:31
41.   BxSparksNYC
Tocho -
So your then the onus is on the NY environment rather than on Jose or the Yanks? I understand your point but I tend to put it on Jose. He chose to be a Yankee and when seems quite overwhelmed once he got here. Great performance today from him. It would have never happen as a Yank.
2005-10-04 15:48:49
42.   BxSparksNYC
Tocho -
So then the onus is on the NY environment rather than on Jose or the Yanks? I understand your point but I tend to put it on Jose. He chose to be a Yankee and when seems quite overwhelmed once he got here. Great performance today from him. It would have never happen as a Yank.
2005-10-04 16:00:17
43.   hensley
I was going to say Francona should've started Arroyo instead of Clement, but then Pierzynski proved he's immortal right now. Though, still, Clement's been getting lit up for weeks. The danger signs were all there.

Re: Contreras. I don't buy the NY media stuff. I just think he had a rough adjustment period, dealing with major league hitters. He only recently gained total control over his pitches. He wasn't great with Chicago last year, and even for a large part of this year wasn't lights out.

2005-10-04 16:10:06
44.   randym77
All the Red Sox starting pitchers are suspect. Except maybe Wakefield, and he couldn't pitch today. It's not just Yankee partisanship: I honestly believe Chacon, Small, and Wang are better bets than Boston's starters. Clement, Arroyo, Schilling, etc., have been pretty unreliable lately.
2005-10-04 16:13:06
45.   tocho
BxSparksNYC: He had a few games like this one on the Yanks, as a starter. Then, as a reliever he had success in the ALCS '03 coming in the 8th. inning (except in Gm 6), His appearance in the '03 WS was great except for Game 5 which everybody knew he was not ready to pitch.

In '04 he had some good and some terrible games but the potential was there. NY requires immediate success (and not only in baseball), or a short transition period. That's the way it has been and the way that it will remain.

Personally, I feel really happy for Contreras, he had a terrible time in NY, all accounts say that he was the loneliest guy on the planet. His story is great and its nice to see him succeed (having said that, I hope he tanks if he starts v the Yanks...).

2005-10-04 16:18:01
46.   tom yf
Contreras wasn't good on the Yankees because of the coaching, plain and simple. His best pitch is that sharp splitter, but that is an out pitch. He was advised to throw it over and over again, and splitters, as we know, end up outside of the zone. Because of that, he ended up pitching behind all the time, and being forced to come into the zone and get nailed.

The White Sox coaches have encouraged him to establish the split with his four-seamer and a two-seamer. Contreras throws the former at about 95mph, and locates it well. The latter he throws at like 91mph with a different arm angle, and it has decent movement. Then he uses the split to embarass you. Glad to see him do well, I hated the way he was treated by our fans and media.

2005-10-04 16:20:33
47.   Zack
Tocho, I agree, good to see him pitchign well, jsut wish we had gotten more from him, but then again, Loiza had a much better season with the Nats than with us. Ah well

Remember the split between RSox road and home record. They are really a mediocre team on the road, so it wouldn't surprise me if they won both at home, which means the WSox need to win tomorrow too, or they are in trouble...

However, the Sox now have the deliema of whether to run Clement out there in game 4/5 or throw Arroyo...Not sure which is a better choice...Clement I guess...

2005-10-04 17:36:53
48.   Stormer Sports
Someone say Rookie of the year!

Someone say two out hit?

Hell ya! Go boys! I love it.

Comment status: comments have been closed. Baseball Toaster is now out of business.