Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
2005-10-02 10:06
by Alex Belth

Yankee fans have the luxury of kicking back this afternoon and enjoying the final game of the season. Sure, there are still things at stake, but it isn't the do-or-die scenerio that it could well have been. If the Yankees win, they'll most likely host the Angels Tuesday. If they lose and the Angels win, the ALDS will begin in Anahiem. The Red Sox are a pretty good bet to make the playoffs themselves. If the Indians lose, the Sox are in. If the Sox win, they are in. Should Boston lose and Cleveland win, the two teams would meet at Fenway Park tomorrow in a one-game playoff (I think that both the Indians and the Sox will win today and that'll be that).

Jaret Wright will start against Curt Schilling today, and several Yankee starters will get some rest (I'm thinking that Sheff and Giambi will not play, but would be surprised not to see Jeter, Posada, Rodriguez and Matsui out there). Anyhow, let's just hope that nobody gets hurt, and that a couple of guys can pad their stats a 'lil bit.

The Bronx Bombers are headed to the playoffs again. Four months ago I wasn't so sure that'd happen. Today is a good time to take pause and appreciate just how hard the players worked to earn this playoff berth, and for us to really take in how fortunate we've been to root for such a special team since Joe Torre became the manager in 1996.

Enjoy the day. Let's Go Yan-Kees!

Comments (174)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2005-10-02 10:21:12
1.   Paul in Boston
Ruben Sierra, he of the 4 HR, .230 BA and .270 OB%, is indeed DH today. Why? What is the fascination with him?
2005-10-02 10:26:19
2.   randym77
Torre thinks all Sierra needs to regain his former glory is more at-bats.
2005-10-02 10:31:14
3.   rsmith51
Apparently Giambi is the only regular not playing. I think I would sit Bernie.
2005-10-02 10:36:14
4.   Shaun P
Sierra isn't playing 'cause of his numbers vs Schilling - 2 for 10, 4 Ks. Here's the full lineup, BTW:

D. Jeter ss
R. Cano 2b
A. Rodriguez 3b
G. Sheffield rf
H. Matsui lf
J. Posada c
B. Williams cf
R. Sierra dh
T. Martinez 1b

I'd still be surprised to see Jeter and Sheff play past the 5th, especially if the ChiSox are way up - or the Red Sox are way up.

Those with YES - any word on if one of the vets (Bernie) is managing?

2005-10-02 10:41:48
5.   Fred Vincy
"The Bronx Bombers are headed to the playoffs again. Four months ago I wasn't so sure that'd happen."

How about four days ago? Or this time yesterday?

2005-10-02 10:55:55
6.   Ramone
The Yanks better not rest too many players. Home field advantage could be huge. I'd hate to lose today and end up losing to Anaheim because of the fear of a freak injury.
2005-10-02 10:56:52
7.   randym77
Cleveland's collapse really changed everything. Somehow, we've gone from worrying about being kicked out of the postseason to clinching the division title.

Apparently, even the Yankees players didn't understand it. Derek Jeter knew, because he worked out all the permutations Friday night after the game. But John Flaherty didn't know until he came into the locker room and saw his teammates spraying champagne.

2005-10-02 11:12:37
8.   mikeplugh
I love that these guys came out to play. They want to knock the Sox out.

Oooh bad Jeter. Manny leads the league in assists on that kind of play.

2005-10-02 11:13:45
9.   mikeplugh
White Sox up 3-0. May not matter what happens today.

Jeter limping. Great.

2005-10-02 11:16:34
10.   randym77
Fenway's not big enough for that kind of hit to be a double. :-P

Boy, the Yanks are aggressive today!

2005-10-02 11:23:06
11.   BklynBomber

27-7 Jints is a nice little distraction to that wasted opportunity, though...

2005-10-02 11:24:04
12.   randym77
Well, Jeter's at SS. Seems to be walking okay.
2005-10-02 11:24:41
13.   BklynBomber
Halos up 1-0 on Texas, bottom 1
2005-10-02 11:28:03
14.   BklynBomber
Projectile Pool:

What inning does Wright get nailed today?

I'm guessing 2nd...

2005-10-02 11:28:15
15.   randym77
Ortiz strikes out. But of course, he only gets his hits in the last third of the game...
2005-10-02 11:31:55
16.   randym77
Gawd. I hope Wright does not get hit by anything today. He's going to end up with a phobia or something.

And I hope Jeter's okay.

2005-10-02 11:32:06
17.   Ramone
Great. Jeter gets a freak injury. What idiot suggested that all the Yanks' stars play? Just kidding.
2005-10-02 11:33:35
18.   BklynBomber
Whoa! Looked like Bernie misjudged that... whew!
2005-10-02 11:37:49
19.   randym77
Schilling doesn't look that great today.
2005-10-02 11:38:18
20.   rbj
Shut up Joe. Not everyone can play perfectly every time like you did.
2005-10-02 11:38:33
21.   marc
Schill looks pretty awful so far. I think we should pile some runs up if things keep going this way.
2005-10-02 11:39:07
22.   BklynBomber
Shill doesn't — but we're helping him out...
2005-10-02 11:43:44
23.   BklynBomber
Morgan is gasbag. Had this bookmarked from last season: The Joe Morgan Drinking Game:

Every time Joe Morgan makes what he thinks is an important point, drink every time he repeats himself.

In the third inning of tonight's Cubs/Cardinals broadcast, Mike Matheny got crossed up when he was expecting a curve ball from Morris and got a fastball instead. Joe proceeded to say "curve ball" five times, "fastball" three times, and "crossed up" three times:

"I think he was crossed up. You're going to see him go out and talk to him. He was crossed up [DRINK!]. He was looking for a curve ball. Now you see him, he's going out and talking to Morris. See, this is supposed to be a curve ball [DRINK!] -- you see him reaching down here for a curve ball [DRINK!] and it's a fastball. So that's why he got crossed up [DRINK!]. I mean, he was looking for a curve [DRINK!] -- he was looking for the ball to break down and it was a straight fastball [DRINK!]. Now watch his glove, and this tells you what he's expecting. He'll reach down with his glove -- he'll reach down here for a curve ball [DRINK!] and it's a fastball [DRINK!] and he's lucky that he got some canvas on it."

— You'll be in the bag by the third inning...

2005-10-02 11:46:19
24.   rbj
LOL Bklybomber. Sounds like the kind of game to make one's liver long for a game of "Hi Bob"
2005-10-02 12:00:11
25.   BklynBomber
Texas up 4-1, still batting, bottom 3
2005-10-02 12:06:58
26.   Stormer Sports
Looks like the Sox are in, well, with the scores we have thus far. Here we come Anaheim!
2005-10-02 12:08:58
27.   Stormer Sports
So if the Angels lose, we get home field against them, right?
2005-10-02 12:10:18
28.   Stormer Sports
Looks like Wright to the pen.
2005-10-02 12:10:37
29.   BklynBomber
Correct, Storm. We win or Angels lose and we secure homefield.
2005-10-02 12:10:52
30.   Zack
Wright totally imploading...board quite today...
2005-10-02 12:12:00
31.   BklynBomber
Bernie might've saved a few runs there!
2005-10-02 12:12:14
32.   Zack
sac fly, I'll take it...But looks like the hitters are mailing it in today, another Schilling steps up and is the hero of the world day, just as we figured
2005-10-02 12:13:41
33.   Stormer Sports
Bern baby Bern! Who is the young man in center?
2005-10-02 12:14:34
34.   BklynBomber
That could have been a lot worse... now if we can stop rolling over for Schill, we can take this game...
2005-10-02 12:14:52
35.   Stormer Sports
Indians coming back. We gotta win this game!
2005-10-02 12:16:32
36.   BklynBomber
Juan Rivera hit a 3 run dinger for the Halos. No love...
2005-10-02 12:18:51
37.   Stormer Sports
Come on Cleveland!
2005-10-02 12:28:14
38.   Zack
Letting Schill off too easy
2005-10-02 12:28:58
39.   marc
that ball looked good off Sierra's bat, I guess not quite good enough.
2005-10-02 12:31:42
40.   mikeplugh
Schilling is ripe for the picking. Just need that one big hit.

I'm lucky enough to get the YES broadcast in Japan and not the Joe "Captain" Morgan spiced rum commentary.

Bellhorn at SS. Love it. Hope Jeter is okay for Tuesday,.

2005-10-02 12:33:45
41.   Zack
Well, with the batters apparently already on their flights for California, this game doesn't look good. Guess we have to root for Texas
2005-10-02 12:34:02
42.   BklynBomber
Mmmm. Hope there's nothing wrong with Cap. Recently someone posted the scenario of a Bellhorn HR late in a game that would hurt Boston... well, today's the day...
2005-10-02 12:36:01
43.   BklynBomber
#41 - Zack, I think the bats are actually at the airport now... we'll need our old friends Soriano and Delucci to get our back today.
2005-10-02 12:37:51
44.   mikeplugh
Soriano isn't in the lineup today. It'll have to be Delucci,.
2005-10-02 12:38:03
45.   BklynBomber
#40 — LOL! Perfect name for the drinking game.
2005-10-02 12:38:30
46.   randym77
Well, Wright's out, Proctor's coming in. I guess Torre is serious about winning this game.
2005-10-02 12:39:26
47.   mikeplugh
Jaret Wright joins Kevin Brown and Carl Pavano on the list of useless Yankee millionaire dead arms.

Thank God for Small, Chacon, and Wang.

2005-10-02 12:39:35
48.   BklynBomber
Buck FUCKING Showalter takes Young and Texeria (sp?) out of the game in the 6th inning!!! What a weasel!
2005-10-02 12:40:37
49.   Zack
I hope Chacon would only come in for an inning or so as practice and is still scheduled for game 4...Actually, i guess that would still be 5 days anyways, nevermind
2005-10-02 12:41:10
50.   mikeplugh
Angels up 5-4 and threatening for more.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2005-10-02 12:42:06
51.   BklynBomber
#44. Thanks, mike. And thanks for nothing, Showalter!
2005-10-02 12:43:20
52.   mikeplugh
Buck also took out Blalock.
2005-10-02 12:44:04
53.   mikeplugh
El Duque in for the Bottom of the 8th in Cleveland..
2005-10-02 12:44:34
54.   BklynBomber
I never liked that guy...
2005-10-02 12:44:58
55.   BklynBomber
Buck, that is...
2005-10-02 12:45:28
56.   KYK
So - not to be a pessimist, but I think it's going to be NYY - LAA and CWS - BOS. So what's the record this year between CHI and BOS? Or more to the point, what are the odds that it's going to be another NYY - BOS ALCS?
2005-10-02 12:46:58
57.   mikeplugh
Bloody Ortiz. A-Rod needs to go deep.
2005-10-02 12:47:16
58.   Zack
Man its only the 4th inning, loooong game...

Oh, rbi hit for Ortiz, better make him the mvp...

2005-10-02 12:48:20
59.   mikeplugh
Bases loaded for Orlando Cabrera in Texas and the Rangers wriggle out of it with only one run in.....5-4 Angels.
2005-10-02 12:48:49
60.   Zack
KYK, I would put all money on Sox being ALCS, as for Yanks, much tougher draw..the only thing the White Sox have for them is pitching in a short series, but their pitching hasn't been that good of late, or against the sox Sox vs. Sox, how funny
2005-10-02 12:49:57
61.   BklynBomber
A short series, dangerous foe, cross-country flights, etc. — I'd really like to see us nail the homefield. Too bad the Halos didn't finish up against the Blue Jays. Now we're gonna have to come back and win this one.

(p.s. Thanks again, Canada ;-)

2005-10-02 12:50:58
62.   mikeplugh
Jason Lane just hit his 26th in Houston to take a 4-1 Houston lead and turn it into a 4-4 tie. Phils winning big. Could be a playoff game in the NL.
2005-10-02 12:51:26
63.   KYK
Zack - which Sox in the ALCS? Red or White? :-)
2005-10-02 12:53:30
64.   mikeplugh
That's just Manny being a jackass.
2005-10-02 12:53:59
65.   Stormer Sports
See him Stare at that. Can we bean him now, please?
2005-10-02 12:54:38
66.   mikeplugh
NIght everyone. I need to go back to bed at 5am to wake up for work in 2 hours.

See you in LA. ;)

2005-10-02 12:54:41
67.   BklynBomber
Drill that SOB next time he gets up. In the head.
2005-10-02 12:54:55
68.   randym77
Nuts. :-P
2005-10-02 12:55:29
69.   Stormer Sports

I have no idea why teams don't do it.

2005-10-02 12:55:57
70.   BklynBomber
mikep — you mean Disneyland, right? ;-)
2005-10-02 12:57:05
71.   debris
Manny's in a groove and maybe Manny and Papi together can get the Sox past the Sox. Otherwise, I see both the Red Sox and Yanks out in a hurry due to shitty pitching. Must agree with KYK.
2005-10-02 12:58:40
72.   BklynBomber
Storm, how he gets a pass on that is beyond me... Rocket came in on him high and hard a few years back, don't think he actually got him. Benches half-heartedly emptied, nothing happened (if memory serves...)
2005-10-02 12:59:05
73.   Yankee Fan in Chicago
I was really hoping the Indians could pull out the wild card. Not only would it be nice to have the Sox out, but the Angels are going to be very hard to beat. Especially if they get the home field, as looks likely today.

Here are some of the more scary numbers:

151 sb
3.67 era (vs 4.48 for the Yanks)
3.28 ba w/ bases loaded (.276 for us)
.296 runners in scoring position (.273 us)
.271 rsp,2outs (.234 for us)

Those latter two numbers are best in the league

On the up side, they don't hit many homers, and they don't walk at all. Then again, who needs walks and homers when you hit like that with runners in scoring position.

We've got our work cut out for us.

2005-10-02 13:02:14
74.   Stormer Sports
Now we end up on the short end of home field. Ugg. All I can say is that I better not see Proctor, Embree, Rodriguez, or any of the other bums out there. Leiter is ok for one lefty then out. Joe, I hope today wraps it up for you, no using these guys anymore, ever, no matter how bad the starter is, he won't be any worse than the pen! Use Gordon, Mo, Wright and Small out of the pen . . . period, that is all.
2005-10-02 13:02:28
75.   Zack
KYK, the Red ones...I just can't see the White Sox pulling it off, no offense, Sox will have Clement, Wells, Wake, Schill lined up, which is pretty perfect for them...
2005-10-02 13:03:33
76.   BklynBomber
6-4 Halos...
2005-10-02 13:04:31
77.   marc
what shitty pitching? it's just middle relief. We have Randy, Moose, Wang, Chacon and Small as well as Gormo. In a short series we have plenty to mix and match in middle relief from starters if it comes to that and Gormo could go as long as 4 at the end if we're desperate. The Yanks can easily go all the way now that we're in.
2005-10-02 13:04:56
78.   debris
Of the top 15 pitchers in ERA in the AL this season:

Yanks - 0
Red Sox - 0
White Sox - 3
Angels - 4

2005-10-02 13:04:59
79.   BklynBomber
What a run The Tribe had before they ran out of gas, something like 19-2 before dropping 5 of 6...
2005-10-02 13:05:04
80.   Stormer Sports

I mean I thought that was rule 1, you show up the pitcher, you get beaned, have I been living in a parallel universe?

2005-10-02 13:06:29
81.   rbj
Cleveland just lost.
2005-10-02 13:07:06
82.   marc
Boston now officially the WC, Cleveland loses once again. What a flash in the pan
2005-10-02 13:07:09
83.   Stormer Sports
Why is Joe burning Chacon here? This game has almost no meaning now. Is home field worth risking this?
2005-10-02 13:09:25
84.   Stormer Sports
I think this is a dumb move using Chacon here, he is our ace for God's sake!
2005-10-02 13:11:13
85.   Stormer Sports
Great, hurt his confidence for no reason, Jesus.
2005-10-02 13:12:15
86.   BklynBomber
It's DePaula time. What is the point with Chacon, here?
2005-10-02 13:13:39
87.   JohnnyC
Well, fans, this is how Torre responds to your unconditional love of the last 24 hours...more wacky, pointless shit. You're welcome to it.
2005-10-02 13:14:42
88.   Stormer Sports

There is no point to it. I'd rather see Mendoza here, De Paula, etc.

How did Cashman know? Shut the fuck up Joe, maybe it was his below 3.00 era on the road away from Coors, maybe, huh, you think jackass?

2005-10-02 13:15:46
89.   Stormer Sports
Does Chacon need "work?" Am I missing something?
2005-10-02 13:16:31
90.   BklynBomber
Storm — This is officially garbage time. Wait, pitching change. It's probably Mussina or The Unit...
2005-10-02 13:18:57
91.   randym77
It's too bad about Cleveland. They were finally starting to catch the interest of their fans and fill up all their seats.
2005-10-02 13:22:01
92.   Stormer Sports
Oh well, one more game on the West Coast for me to watch. I am in LA now, better head to the ticket brokers.
2005-10-02 13:22:58
93.   Yankee Fan in Chicago
Chacon isn't going to start until game 4, next Sat, I think. It seems it'll be Moose on T, Wang on W, RJ F, and Chacon Sat. He hasn't pitched since last Wednesday, so yeah he could do with some work.
2005-10-02 13:24:21
94.   Zack
Well, so much for home field, don't understand why its a good thing to kill our momentum with a loss, not test Moose a bit, allow the Sox to get rest in the playoffs, and oh yeah, put ourselves at a major disadvantage by having to go on the road, but I'm not Joe.

Anyways, who cares, lets go Yanks!

2005-10-02 13:26:03
95.   Yankee Fan in Chicago
Not that that makes sense to me or anything. I'm very nervous about Moose going in game 1. Still have memories of his disastrous performance in 2002 against the halos -- and that was when his arm wasn't falling off. I'd have gone with Chacon to start game 1. But hey, Moose is one of Joe's guys. (and to be fair he has pulled off some big big games for us)
2005-10-02 13:28:20
96.   Stormer Sports

You mean kinda like the start in Arizona?

2005-10-02 13:28:49
97.   marc
Sterling is apoplectic over reports that Texas pulled most of their good players oout of the game even though they're not resting them for the playoff or anything and the game still has importance to other teams
2005-10-02 13:29:01
98.   Max
I don't see the Chacon move as so horrible, though I'm not sure it was anticipated he would give three straight hits and have to work his way out of a jam.
2005-10-02 13:29:06
99.   Stormer Sports
Now they are just going to swing for the fences 'till the end.
2005-10-02 13:29:45
100.   rbj
I'm just amazed that we made the post season, no less winning the division. I don't care about homefield (though it would be nice. . .)
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2005-10-02 13:29:56
101.   BklynBomber
Is this the correct schedule if the Angels hold on and Yanks lose?:

Game 1: @ LAA
Game 2: @ LAA
Game 3: @ NY
Game 4: @ NY (if necessary)
Game 5: @ LAA (if necessary)

2005-10-02 13:30:27
102.   yankz
Ruben shouldn't be on the playoff roster.

Anyone else worried that Chacon was pretty ineffective today?

2005-10-02 13:32:56
103.   JohnnyC
By miraculously winning the division, Torre has been pretty much least in his own mind and those of his acolytes among fans and the press. Be careful what you wish for, fellas. It's going to be a bumpy ride in the playoffs. Hopefully, it won't be a short ride. But, Torre's got the hammer now. So, as Tex Antoine once said before being banished from the airwaves, just lie back and enjoy it.
2005-10-02 13:33:00
104.   randym77
Chacon didn't do well in his last start against Boston, either. Just doesn't match up with them, maybe?
2005-10-02 13:34:49
105.   BklynBomber
The concept of a best of five post season elimination series is complete bullshit. Reminds me of when the opening round of the NBA playoffs where a best of 3. All PS series should be seven. Period.
2005-10-02 13:36:38
106.   JohnnyC
I don't see how Sterling could be angry at Buck. After all, from Buck's POV, we don't deserve any favors from him. And, Sterling should cast his glare at our own dugout and ask what the fuck Torre's up to today. Nice way for the team to end the regular season, being humiliated by their most likely ALCS opponent...if we even make it that far. LOL!
2005-10-02 13:36:56
107.   BklynBomber
#103 - LOL, good 'ol Tex. There's a bit NY trivia. He must have been legally drunk half the time he was on...
2005-10-02 13:37:19
108.   randym77
What on earth is A-Rod saying?
2005-10-02 13:37:56
109.   Yankee Fan in Chicago
I think the Red Sox have got the best of this bargain.

I wish we were playng the Palehose -- and not just b/c I could get to a couple of Yankee playoff games for once.

I guess the only good thing that if we make it by the Angels, we'll have home-field against the Red Sox.

2005-10-02 13:41:06
110.   watziznehm2
Don't know who's worse, Morgan or Sutcliff on the espn team.
2005-10-02 13:41:53
111.   Stormer Sports
He should just bean him here. At least he would have the respect of the other pitchers.
2005-10-02 13:42:30
112.   BklynBomber
FOX has the World Series, anyone know who's broadcasting in addition to FOX for the ALDS and ALCS?
2005-10-02 13:43:07
113.   Stormer Sports
Will this game never end?
2005-10-02 13:43:40
114.   JohnnyC

Someone got the reference! I guess we're both showing our age. Actually, Tex was going through a divorce at the time and was extremely depressed...not a good thing for someone who was known as a "bon vivant" with his much younger, beautiful wife. They used to host a local travel show together, with his wife as an attractive on-camera prop. Guess she got tired of the old coot.

2005-10-02 13:44:06
115.   BklynBomber
It's still in the 6th????
2005-10-02 13:45:25
116.   Stormer Sports
I guess Joe Morgan isn't as much of a purist as he claims to be. Go back to the haberdasher would ya, you know nothing piece of opportunist garbage.
2005-10-02 13:47:46
117.   marc
How many balls and walks will F-Rod throw before the next scrub comes in?
2005-10-02 13:49:43
118.   rbj
Escalona's still alive?
I got the Tex Antoine ref. I actually missed that newscast, though I did see the show where they interviewed him afterwards. Sad decline.
Morgan's worse, though not by much. He's just so damn in love with himself.
2005-10-02 13:52:53
119.   BklynBomber
JohnnyC — Thanks, didn't realize that about Tex. Eyewitness News on Ch. 7, with Grimsley and Buetel if memory serves correct? I was little, but clearly remember him and how he always made made my Mom laugh. What a way to go out ;-)
2005-10-02 13:53:24
120.   JohnnyC
Morgan's got 2 rings. That's halfway to infallibility in some parts.
2005-10-02 13:55:22
121.   Yankee Fan in Chicago
When Doug Mirabelli hits a ball that far off you, I think it's a clear sign that you don't belong in a major league uniform.
2005-10-02 13:55:34
122.   JohnnyC
Good way to puncture Schilling's "aura and mystique" against the Yankees. Imagine what we could have done if we really tried and maybe left Sierra at the hotel.
2005-10-02 13:57:07
123.   Max
>>Nice way for the team to end the regular season, being humiliated by their most likely ALCS opponent...if we even make it that far. >And, Sterling should cast his glare at our own dugout and ask what the fuck Torre's up to today.<<

Starting Wright today pretty much guaranteed this "humiliation"...what did you want, for the Unit to pitch on two days rest and for Gordon and Mo to pitch two innings apiece? Is Torre responsible for the futility of the hitters?

I'm not even a Torre "fan", but this kind of negativity a day later is absurd. I'm P**ed that our middle relief bites, but that wasn't a secret before today and isn't going to change.

Seems like the Torre-love in today's papers has really set you off, Johnny, because you're in rare form today. So how are things down in Tampa?

2005-10-02 13:57:20
124.   JohnnyC
Good to see we're still auditioning pitchers for the post-season roster. Let's see, how about we make Tanyon Sturtze a lefty. I mean, in theory, his left arm is completely well-rested.
2005-10-02 13:58:53
125.   JohnnyC
I'm not in Tampa, Max, but how are things in the Torre household? The lasagna's great I hear. And the kool-aid's the best.
2005-10-02 14:00:11
126.   BklynBomber
On a brighter note, the NY Football Giants go to 3-1 with a 44-24 thumping of the Rams.

Eli 19/35, 296 yds. 4 TDS, 0 INT

2005-10-02 14:03:07
127.   Max
Again Johnny, please tell me how you would have prevented today's "humiliation". I hear there's a manager opening next year in the Bronx.
2005-10-02 14:04:17
128.   Yankee Fan in Chicago
Feel the love in hear today.
2005-10-02 14:04:30
129.   Yankee Fan in Chicago
ere, "here"
2005-10-02 14:07:03
130.   Shaun P
Bklyn, thanks for the update on the Giants! Good to know one of the NY teams is winning today. Of course, the local FOX affliate decided that "How Stella Got Her Groove Back" would draw better rating than the Giants-Rams game - despite our relative closeness to NYC and the rather large number of Giants fans out here.

But this is FOX, after all.

Let's see what Tuesday's lineup is for Game 1 in California - then we can pass judgment. Just my 2 cents.

2005-10-02 14:10:58
131.   JohnnyC
Well, let's see. It was Mussina's turn today. I suppose we could have pitched him on his regular day and lived with whatever he had, good or bad. If good, we would've clinched home field. If bad, we would've gotten confirmation of his status for the post-season..."good information" as your fearless leader likes to say. Then Chacon, Wang, Johnson, and Moose go on regular rest in the Divisional series. We might have lost today anyway with Moose but we would have learned something about the status of our rotation. This way, we lose, we get "humiliated" by our likely ALCS opponent, and we gain nothing in momentum or knowledge. Zilch. A lost afternoon in Friendly Fenway. You disagree?
2005-10-02 14:14:53
132.   rbj
Maury Wills did not change the whole game you idiots. Oh, for Tim McCarver. (did I just write that?)
2005-10-02 14:21:51
133.   BklynBomber
Shaun — that's beat. Here in SF Bay Area, we usually get screwed on NFL doubleheaders because the Raiders rarely sell out, and the NFL has that ridiculous rule about not airing a game in a market where the home team does not sell out and is playing at the same time. We usually end up with the 49er game and one AFC morning game, depending who is home or road.

I can't even get the NFL Season Ticket on my cable provider (Comcast), so only time I get the see the Jints is usually an ESPN game.

2005-10-02 14:22:39
134.   BklynBomber
Morgan is picking the Yanks over the Halos? That rat bastard.
2005-10-02 14:22:59
135.   Max
BTW, everytime I have pasta with Joe, I keep trying to find out what Ruben has on him, and have even tried subliminal methods to change his mind. No luck...he's totally tuned out.

I say this tongue in cheek, but the loyalty to Ruben and Bubba's disappearance this weekend definitely make me scratch my head, among other things.

No disagreement, Johnny...thanks for addressing me directly. Those are all excellent points.

I still don't think the "humiliation" is that big of a deal and momentum is hard to figure with such an odd set of circumstances (who figured Cleveland would totally tank the final week?), but I like the way the Yankees are playing.

I don't doubt that Torre will give all of us plenty of fodder starting on Tuesday night in the OC. I'm definitely sweating Mussina's start, and said so yesterday even when I was thrilled with the division clinch.

2005-10-02 14:27:08
136.   BklynBomber
This feels like the 8th inning of game two in an old-fashioned double-header...
2005-10-02 14:36:15
137.   marc
i also have doubts on Moose but while putting him in today would have made sense under normal circumstances, the fact that we're talking about elbow inflammation that theoretically would be helped by rest made the choice of Wright appropriate. Also I think Moose was going to have a prime spot regardless in the first round but they really needed to take a look at Wright to figure out where he may fit it if anywhere going forward
2005-10-02 14:37:15
138.   marc
Leiter, I think I'll doze off while he tries to throw strikes
2005-10-02 14:39:58
139.   JohnnyC
Moose could have gone 5 and Wright could've pitched a couple of innings out of the pen. You would've accomplished both objectives. And, believe me, if Moose's elbow is still a problem, two more days rest isn't going be the miracle cure. It's obvious that Torre wasn't concerned with Moose's elbow...he just wanted to have one of his trusted veterans pitch the opening game of the ALDS. So what's ever new in the Torre universe?
2005-10-02 14:42:01
140.   randym77
Wish Leiter would pitch like that all the time. He CAN throw strikes. He's just afraid to. He shouldn't be. He's a good pitcher. He just doesn't realize it.
2005-10-02 14:45:29
141.   marc
i guess this game ends when they've both run out of new pitchers to bring in which is hopefully now
2005-10-02 14:47:02
142.   marc
Maybe we can use up Timlin's arm for a while
2005-10-02 15:39:14
143.   randym77
The Boston Globe has an article about Fox's "split decision":

Sounds like their phones and e-mail boxes were jammed.


Dan Bell, Fox director of communications, said, ''We're doing just what we said we would -- following and updating the games with a bearing on the pennant races. Our job is to provide viewers around the country with every significant play. It's not like we're talking about games with no significance."

Then he gave the network's ultimate justification: ''We've even scrapped commercials to stay with the updates between innings."

And as Fox Sports president Ed Goren piped in: ''Look at the score. The Sox are losing and the fans are upset."


Folderol. It wasn't just the Sox fans who were upset. Heck, it wasn't just the viewers of the NY-Boston game that were upset. Idiots.

2005-10-02 15:42:25
144.   randym77
Oh, and I forgot the best part:


Fox had said it was treating yesterday as the first game of its postseason playoffs.

A couple of Division Series games are scheduled to be regional telecasts with similar split-screens and cut-ins.


They're going to do it again, throughout the playoffs. @#$%!!!!!

2005-10-02 15:56:04
145.   Zack
Fox has no idea what its doing, I hate them...

Anyone notice that yesterday when the Yanks clinched, the Times didn't even have it as the lead article on their web site's sports section, but now that the Sox have clinched, they get the top right box on the top of the site. They piss me off...

2005-10-02 16:02:19
146.   rbj
Gee Zack, I can't imagine why the Red Sox owning NYTimes would do such a thing.
SNL last night didn't mention the Yankees clinching either. There has been a pro Boston flavor there the last couple of years.
2005-10-02 16:55:27
147.   Zack
rbj, I know, you would think they would at least pretend wouldn't they?
2005-10-02 17:58:32
148.   singledd
So Johnny C....
Would having the Moose in there for 5 gotten us more then 1 run? Moose doesn't bat in AL games. Wright was good at first, then lost it. Being set up for the PS was more important then todays game. Even with Wright, we had a 75% chance of home field. As it turned out, the 25% (we lose, Angels win) came to pass.

A bad decision not to start Moose? Hard to say... I didn't talk to him today and get his opinion. Wonder if Torre did.

2005-10-02 17:59:59
149.   Ravenscar
For fans of the most popular sports team in the universe, you guys sure are a paranoid bunch.
2005-10-02 18:28:31
150.   missouri2725
Ted Williams must be turning over in his grave (or his cryogenic freezer).

Ortiz gets a hit in the 6th to raise his BA to .2995008, then they pinch-run for him to protect his ".300" BA. Contrast this with Williams playing both games of a season-ending doubleheader rather than sitting out to protect his .3995+ average -- he had a big day and ended up at .403.

Joe Morgan announced today that once the Red Sox won the wild card today, Ortiz got his MVP vote. How can a guy that was such a great player be so clueless? I'm not sure which is dumber -- picking Ortiz over a guy who played every game this year and ended up with a better BA, a better OBA, and a better SLG -- not to mention 21 SBs and a great glove -- or saying that you make the choice based on one game and whether the team ends in the playoffs by a game or not. If Cleveland sweeps the Chisox and Schilling is horrible today (both of which are completely beyond Ortiz's control), the Red Sox finish out of the playoffs, and -- by Morgan's reasoning -- ARod is the MVP. Maybe we see now why Morgan has never been given a job as manager or GM.

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2005-10-02 18:32:56
151.   yankz
I keep having scary flashbacks of Mussina's meltdown vs. the Angels a few months back.
2005-10-02 19:26:15
152.   Yankee Fan in Chicago
I keep having flashbacks of his meltdown against the Angels a few years back.
2005-10-02 20:19:08
153.   JohnnyC
"We might have lost today anyway with Moose but we would have learned something about the status of our rotation." singledd, do you read my entire post or do you just pick and choose every other turn of phrase? I was not concerned with winning or losing today's game as much as I was questionning the decision to essentially give Mussina 2 starts in the series with the Angels without a scintilla of evidence that he's able to pitch effectively in even one start. As for speaking to Moose, I'm sure you were quite reassured when Kevin Brown started Game 7 of last year's ALCS after a similar "chat" with Torre. Joe: You o.k? Brown: Fine and dandy, skip. Ooops.
2005-10-02 20:22:12
154.   JohnnyC
All the shrill voices in RSN who are stumping for David Ortiz despite the fact that he's a one-dimensional DH felt the exact opposite in 1995 when Mo Vaughn was named MVP for a team that didn't even make the post-season while Edgar Martinez, the batting champion, hit his team into the playoffs and was as clutch as anyone since Lou Gehrig.
2005-10-02 20:50:41
155.   sam2175
154 Excellent point JohnnyC.

Just a comparison. Martinez in 1995 had scored 122 runs, drove in 113, and had this Ruthian line: .356/.479/.628. I guess the flavor of the season was RBI and HR and playing the field, Vaughn had 126 and 39, whereas Martinez hit 29 (but had 52 doubles).
This season of course it is clutch hit, and nothing else matters. In fact, Edgar should win multiple MVPs.

Vaughn's line? .300/.388/.575. Very good, but not better than Manny Ramirez in a down year.

2005-10-02 21:30:31
156.   Yankee Fan in Chicago
Feeling a little better about the Yanks chances against the Angels.

Just recalled the game from April where ARod destroyed Colon -- 3 homers and 9 ribbies in 3 atbats over 4 innings. May he do it again.

Also the two games at the end of July where we came back against the Angels vaunted bullpen to sneak a couple of wins. May they do it again.

2005-10-02 22:10:07
157.   sam2175
Yankees just have to play with the urgency that they showed down the stretch. They know that callous play could well mean end of season. At least, the regular season grind should make them less complacent, more alert this year than some of the previous years.

But we absolutely have to retire Chone Figgins. There is really no reason to walk the guy.

2005-10-02 23:39:55
158.   Zack

Its garabge like this that make me hate ESPN, among many other things. Besides all of the attention they have heaped on the Sox today, ignoring the Astros, and the fact that the Yanks phones it in, now we have to deal with more "Schilling is the savior of the Sox." if he's so "money," why not make him the mvp?

2005-10-02 23:48:10
159.   rsfaa
Zack, jealousy is never attractive.

Seriously folks, when did yankees fans become such victims?

Let me get this straight:

The times favors the sox, joe morgan favors the sox, mccarver favors the sox, espn favors the sox. Did I miss anyone? I'm guessing god favors the sox now?

And zack, don't blame espn or schilling. Blame the yankees for "phoning it in" as you claim. Funny stuff.

2005-10-03 02:41:08
160.   debris
You left out the umpires. There was massive whining about he umpiring here on Friday night. It wasn't pretty. The whining that is.


Torre was nuts not to get a bead on Mussina before the playoffs started. He must not trust Chacon and Small.

2005-10-03 04:40:36
161.   Max
debris, it must be nice to get a renewed sense of confidence after your team backed into a playoff spot. I'm glad you feel so good about the way your team is playing the last few weeks.
2005-10-03 04:49:19
162.   Dan M
Johnny C, while I agree generally with your Vaughn vs. Edgar argument, the 1995 Red Sox did in fact make the postseason - and actually won the AL East.
2005-10-03 05:17:47
163.   debris

While the Sox struggled against the Jays, they didn't fare badly in the end. To wit:

They beat the Yankees 2-3 this weekend. In game two, they hit Johnson harder than he's been hit since August. I also heard an interview with Wakefield, debunking the argument that a knuckleballer needs less rest than anyone else. He basically said that, while his arm doesn't take the beating a harder thrower's takes, his legs do. His knuckleball had no bite, he said, due to leg weariness.

Curt Schilling has won his last three decisions, two against the Yankees, and, while not the Schilling of old, he's pitched much better of late and can be counted on to come up huge, as he always does, in the post-season. Schilling has gone 6 innings or more in his last 7 starts.

The streaky Ramirez is currently clubbing the ball.

The Sox finally have a bullpen they can count on. While not Rivera/Gordon, Timlin and Papelbon have been very good. In front of them, Bradford, Myers, Delcarmen, and DiNardo (the latter two in very limited innings) all have ERAs under 4. Sturtze, at 4.76, has the lowest ERA in front of Gordon.

Tell me, how good do you feel about Mussina, who will start two games if it goes five, getting the ball to Gordon?

And, as has been stated over and over in this thread, "winning the division" (and being the only team in baseball history to win a division without winning more games than the second place team) gets a booby prize. I'd much rather be in Chicago than in Anaheim.

2005-10-03 05:33:36
164.   debris

I challenge you, or anyone else here, to tell me honestly that you wouldnt rather have Wakefield, Wells, or Schilling pitching for the Yankees right now than anyone they do have not named Johnson.

2005-10-03 05:42:21
165.   KJC
"mccarver favors the sox"

I have to completely disagree on that one. McCarver rides Jeter's jock so hard it's sick.

On the other hand, McCarver is such a tool that maybe it just seems to Sox fans like he favors NY, and NY fans think he favors the Sox, and the truth is he just sucks so badly that neither fanbase can see the truth: that he's just a moron.

2005-10-03 05:47:06
166.   Max
debris, would you be making all these defensive rationalizations (on a Yankee blog) if your team had managed to win one more game against Tampa, Toronto (or for that matter the Yankees) and it was your team that won the division?

I suspect we'd be hearing a whole lot about how winning the division meant the culmination of the Red Sox' ascent to the top of baseball and the triumph of Theo's way. I'm sure his master plan of Wakefield, Wells and Schilling makes all Sox fans feel warm and cozy, but outsiders who watch baseball with a more calculating eye will differ considerably.

I just keep saying the same thing to Red Sox fans (excluding intelligent ones like Sully): act like you've been there.

2005-10-03 06:08:16
167.   debris

a. You didn't respond to number 164.
b. Division titles are meaningless, beyond the trip to the playoffs. No one remembers who won divisons, no one cares. The Tigers, for example, beat the Padres in the '84 Series. Who won the other divisions? The Reds beat the A's in '90. Who wond the other divisions? No looking it up now. :-) No one knows, no one cares.
c. As uncomfortable as I feel about Clement/Contreras in games 1 and 5, you, if you're rational, feel much more uncomfortable about Mussina/Colon and two trips across the continent.
d. McCarver is an ass. (OK, Schilling is an ass, too, but he's our ass.)

2005-10-03 07:41:16
168.   Max
debris, in case my last post wasn't clear enough, I would NOT rather have Wakefield, Wells, and Schilling. Does that answer your question directly enough?

I would rather play the White Sox than the Angels, but the Yankees did the right thing -- aim for the top prize, not settle for a consolation. If it makes you sleep better at night feeling divisions don't matter, good for you.

I never said anything about McCarver. I care about what the Yankees are doing. Again, as a Sox fan whose team is a defending World Champion, act like you've been there. Obsessing over another team on one of their fan sites only tells everyone that nothing has changed regarding inferiority complexes.

2005-10-03 07:52:49
169.   debris

I enjoy engaging in intelligent discussion with people from both sides. For the most part, you included, I find that here as well as on the other side. I'm not here to scream Yankees suck or to express my personal feelings about Alex Rodriguez, but to engage on conversation.

I also appreciate the good writing and thought that both Alex and Cliff put in here. I also think that you're in the minority here in believing that you'd rather go into the playoffs with Chacon, Mussina, and Small, than Wells, Schilling and Wakefield.

2005-10-03 07:53:49
170.   Zack
d. McCarver is an ass. (OK, Schilling is an ass, too, but he's our ass.)

That was my point: Doesn't it piss you off that an ass like him manages to steal ALL of the credit when he hasn't even been the best pitcher on your team in the last few days? He got all the glory last year, and hell, where would you have been with that old bullpen by committte of the year before, aka, without Foulke?

rsfaa, its not about victimhood, its about facts: The Times owns a major share in the Sox, their lead articles on the Sox have been noted by all for a long time now. ESPN is based where...Ct! And half of their writers profess to be Sox fans, so not sure how you can defend that one. Morgan and McCarver just get anger b/c they are tools, thats all, nothing about team preference, though you can have them if you want.

But, of course, we would never want to steal the self-sacrificial fan status from you guys, you've really perfected it, so why even bother.

And Debris, there no way I would feel comfortable with Fatty, Chin Beard, or Ego out there, and nor should you. I don't feel comfortable with Moose, Johnson, or whoever else we throw out their either. And for all of your bullpen alanysis, I would still take ours for two reasons, and you can guess what they are...

It is good to see that cocky, self-rightiousness you all are known for has returned :) I hadn't seen you around for a bit Debris, where you been?

2005-10-03 09:16:05
171.   sam2175

Mussina gets my vote over Schilling based on this year's record. Yes, he can be brutal in game 1, but Schilling has been consistently mediocre this year, except for a sporadic start here or there.

And if you are really giddy about yesterday's game, I dont think it was a proper test for Schilling. Even then, Yankees had tons of hits against him in a game they had very little to play for. They stranded tons of baserunners. What was his BABIP for the game? My guess would be: not good. They conceded when they started Jaret Wright. It was an indication: here comes BP, come on, hit him.

Wakefield is an enigma to the Yankees, but his career record do say something: other than Yankees last couple of years, he has not been elite. And he can have his bad days. I will take Chacon, but objectively, it is probably a tie.

And dont leave out Johnson, he does trump Wells or anyone else (and always add that element of health risk with him, if you may). And how about Wang? Surely, you can admit that he can do a decent job, right? Maybe better than Clement (by the way, I believe Clement has electric stuff, his problem is to harness it. And if he keeps walking people at the rate as he has been doing lately, it will be a recipe for disaster)?

I expect Small to be in the bullpen, not in the rotation, that is. So the above was based on that.

2005-10-03 09:29:25
172.   debris

My argument is that if I were to choose 4 pitchers from the 2 teams for a playoff series, I would select Johnson, Wakefield, Schilling, and Wells.

Schilling has been mediocre, but has gotten his team into at least the seventh every game, pitching to a 4.65 ERA since September 1. His best games have been the important ones against the Yankees and I see no reason not to expect him to step it up against Chicago.

Wakefield has been brilliant except for this past Saturday. He has a lousy record on three days rest. He says that the knuckler being easy on the arm is not the key issue; his legs work as hard as any pitcher and when his legs tire, like any pitcher, he has a hard time keeping the ball down. He didn't keep it down on Saturday and, I believe, it was well into the third inning before anyone swung and missed.

Wells, like Schilling, is a huge big game pitcher. If, huge if, his knee holds up, he is guaranteed to keep them in the game.

Torre made a huge mistake yesterday in not giving Mussina a look see. He's pitched twice since August, both times against a dismal Oriole club in the throes of losing 11 of 12. The first time, he threw six shutout innings; was he good or did this grim team make him look good. The second time, his last outing, he didn't get out of the second. So what's on tap tomorrow night? Neither you, I, nor Torre have any idea what this broken down old gamer has in his tank, but we're all about to find out as he tries to outduel Bartolo Colon, who, last I looked, was a little tougher than Eric Bedard and Daniel Cabrera.

2005-10-03 14:05:21
173.   randym77
I'm happy with Wang, Small, and Chacon. Not so happy with Wright, and Moose is suspect.

But I would definitely take Wang, Small, and Chacon over Schilling, Wakefield, or Wells. They are the reason we won the division, despite being four games back a month ago.

2005-10-03 16:21:20
174.   sam2175
Ok debris, that clarifies a few things.

Boomer giveth, and Boomer taketh away. I like his approach to pitching, but way too much contact. And Schilling this year is hittable. Last year, he drew awe. But this year, it is a very different Curt Schilling (probably for obvious reasons).

And completely agree about Mussina when you say Torre should have given him a look. And I do find it a bit annoying that Yankees complained about Buck resting his guys. They could have shown more urgency and won the game straight, and that should have started with starting Mussina. Cash came up with the best reponse to that.

But Moose is a pitcher that I believe is likely to, and capable of changing strategies mid-game if something does not work out. The thing to watch out for is what he has on his fastball. If his elbow problems are not bothering him, the last one was one of those "WTF is wrong with Moose" starts, and I dont have much reasons to worry.

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