Baseball Toaster was unplugged on February 4, 2009.
The Yankees have won six games and already taken the weekend series against the Blue Jays. Funny to think that they could start the week having lost ground on Boston and Cleveland should those two teams win today and the Yanks lose. Our old friend Ted Lilly will square off against Jaret Wright this afternoon in Toronto. Wright tends to get hurt early, but the Yankees desperately need him to make like Shawn Chacon and give them some length. More to the point, they need the offense to put up at least a half-a-dozen runs, which is possible, though no lock against Lilly, who can be nasty when he's on. Jorge Posada is showing some signs of life, and Robinson Cano has been hot. Let's see who can step up today. Got to drive 'em in when they are on, boys. Let's see youse guys get them ducks off the pond.
One more pin Rodney. Just win it. Any which way you can.
In the next 15 days, the Red Sox have 14 games scheduled to be played.
In the next 15 days, the Yanks have 15 games scheduled to be played.
How is that? Because an earlier Red Sox-White Sox was posptponed with a makeup game not scheduled. And the one date that the Red Sox are off in the next 2 weeks, Chicago has a game.
Therefore, it is very possible that the season could end with either the Yanks or Sox up by only .5 game in the standing and, depending on the team in first place, the Red Sox would have to make up that game against Chicago on the day after the season ends.
Given the fact that the White Sox and Indians could be coming down to the wire on the final weekend of this season, this poses VERY interesting scanrios for all teams involved.
I believe the White Sox game was already made up...that's why the Sox are in the middle of a 30 game in a row stretch...because they had to make up the game on their one day off, in order to avoid precisely what you're talking about.
A lot of people have mentioned being scared of Ortiz, but the guy that scares me the most if it comes down to one game is Wakefield. The weird thing is that he is 1-3 against the Yankees this year, but I still fear that knuckleball more than Papi, Manny, the bloody sock, or Johnny from Burger King.
But right now, I'm not worried about the Sox. I'm actually worried about 8 games against a team we haven't seen since June, with nothing to lose...but again, if we show the spirit we've shown the last seven days, we're in good shape.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/story/347495p-296592c.html
CAN'T GET LOOSE IN A FLASH: Tom Gordon said earning his first save of the season yesterday felt good, but the righthander's "cranky" shoulder makes his day-to-day status for the rest of the year a little murky.
Gordon said he's been suffering from sporadic stiffness in his shoulder that makes him less effective on the mound and he doesn't want to take a chance and pitch on a day in which he's not at his best.
"I want to be able to help the team but I have to use common sense, too," Gordon said.
The problem, Gordon said, is that there are some days when he'll wake up and feel like his shoulder is "heavy." On those days, it can take him 35-40 tosses to get loose during pregame throwing, and "if it takes me that long then, it will take me 35-40 pitches later (during the game)," he said. "That's not good."
Yesterday, Gordon said he felt good and needed just 12 pitches to get ready. Since Torre has not hesitated to bring Gordon into games in the middle of an inning, it's vital that he be able to warm up quickly. "Look, I want to be out there pitching every day," Gordon said. "But I don't want to hurt the team, either. So I just have to monitor it."
Bubba, Bubba, where for art thou Bubba!
God Damn you Joe!
Is it so impossible to just warm the guy up in advance? I mean, if there's a close game going into the eigth, just get the guy up before whoever's on the mound gets into trouble.
I don't really understand bullpen management as far as the science of warming up pitchers, so can someone explain to me why giving the guy a little extra time to get loose can be an insurmountable problem?
I mean, doesn't it require nothing more than the barest modicum of foresight?
Not to be a downer, but I really believe we have to put the WC out of the realm of possibility. We are going to need to overcome Boston to get in.
Does anyone remember a better run than the one Cleveland is on right now. Well, better than us making up 8 in 1978?
"I mean, doesn't it require nothing more than the barest modicum of foresight?"
No, no it doesn't. This is Joe we are talking about afterall.
Neither am I, but better to get in one way, than no way at all. Especially given the odds of winning the WS from the WC. Who was the last team to win the WS that didn't?
The 2000 Yankees.
And if this really is the case, ok, so use the guy. Make a rule. One run game, get him up and use him.
I don't know that it's more strain, but apparently it's enough of a strain to have an effect.
Every time you think he's turning a corner he does something stupid
Further, we were having this debate earlier in the week. I was arguing that Rivera should work more than 1 inning far more often than he does, when neccessary.
I used Gossage as an example of someone who would laugh at these closers who whine about having to work more than one.
I was lambasted with the argument that guys like Goose worked fewer games and threw equal or more innings per year. This meant they could not be used as often, I was told. I also contended that "stats" and save numbers have as much to do with it as anything, and I still say that.
I stick to my guns and I still believe that if a manger would have the guts to go back to the way it was, and should be, we wouldn't have to worry near as much as we do concerning middle relief.
Below are Gossgae's and Rivera's stats. No great disparity in games pitched, while Rich worked more innings, generally. I am unable to locate any evidence in these numbers to back up my opponents argument.
It's simply a function of stats and bullshit medicine that has put us in the sad sad state of affairs converning closing games in modern baseball.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/riverma01.shtml
http://www.baseball-reference.com/g/gossari01.shtml
You can't change Rivera's workload in the middle (let alone the end) of a season. He is also 36, not 28 or even 32. How much is left in his arm anyway?
I must say, though...everyone seems a bit flat today. I suppose it's only natural, but there's no room for that at this time of year.
Get Wright out of there posthaste.
He is like Rollins in Philidelphia, Candolanatto is right on top of the plate. Grow some balls Ump, and call him off, If he stands in front of the plate and gets hit, you going to give him the base too? Wright owns that area, not the hitter. Christ!
God I wish baseball would address these issues. Some hitters literally rub out the line so they don't get busted, and the Ump's allow it.
LEITER!!!! At least get him up.
Joe you stupid fuck!
"No one warming up in the Yankee bullpen, you don't want to use your bullpen this early in the game."
That makes no goddamned sense at all. At this rate, there won't be any bloody game.
I am just saying that it should change generally. That there is no evidence to prove doing it this way is better for pitchers' arms. Save numbers are more important than wins I guess.
Wright aint jack without Mazzone!
Similar to a four man rotation?
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?statsId=3841&type=batting&year=2005
CANO!
Yes! So lets get this right then, closers and starters salary's increase exponentially, and their workload goes down, and rest goes up.
Randy is a perfect example, he says he wants to pitch on less rest, and the team wont let him, based on what, what? Can someone please find me evidence that there is something to back this up?
Pitchers pitch less.
Batters look like scared deer, and refuse to collide at Home, it's really starting to look like field hockey in MLB.
Not that it would have helped, but even yesterday, Matsui didn't even contemplate plowing into home. It's disturbing. Arod did it against Tek last year, and that is the only collision I can recall.
Pussy here, pussy there, pussies everywhere.
He was overdue for that.
Specialization has infected sports. I don't know why.
Further, this would have been the perfect year to move to a 4 man. Why didn't we, books and numbers, and overpaid doctors with non-efficacious research. I just don't believe there is any real evidence that can be verified, outside of specific players who may need more or less rest, to back up this change in baseball.
You're so right. Look at Troy Brown in NE last year. You would have thought he was Jesus Christ for playing defensive back and wide reciever. No sense, we expect so little.
The theory is that teams have so much invested in pitchers that they are afraid to overwork them and cause injury. You don't want your closer or #1 starter on the DL, and you don't want to pay big bucks to someone on the DL, or have to pay $$$ to someone retired due to injury. Kevin Brown is exhibit 1.
I'm not sure that the theory is correct. Mazzone does well with guys throwing between starts. But the theory is probably more bean-counter driven than pitching coach/manager driven.
Brown has a violent delivery. He would get injured pitching once every 10 days.
Hopefully Leiter will pitch better today, and Wright can come back, pitching well.
They were looking a little flat up till now. I'd like to see a Friday redux ala the Big Exit.
That is what I'm saying.
Further, if not paying guys who are injured is of primary concern, as you say, then you don't sign Kevin Brown to begin with. We could have had Lieber and Vasquez and Loaiza for the money we pay to one guy! Then we would at least have some trade bait. Exhibit 2!
Further, he we go with Wright, he's fine, but leave him in, no, pussy here, pussy there, pussy everywhere.
We didn't sign Brown, just traded for him to get rid of Weaver. Just don't use big buck, long term contracts for pitchers.
I know, but the Dodgers weren't the only team interested in Weaver. Cashman had the cash, so he spent it.
I saw that. Torre is babying his guys, well he always has. Maybe it would have snapped Wright's mechanics back into shape, he couldn't have got much worse. Now Giambi is out, and he puts Phillips in instead of Tino?
But Cashman absolutely must go, there cannot be any doubt about that. The Brown trade should be enough to justify his ouster.
Anyone else hear what Reggie said about George, that he is "losing it mentally." That could help explain his conspicuous absence. That would be very sad.
I remember, at the time I thought there had to be a way to get it done without giving up Navarro. A catcher, grr, not like there are truckloads of them out there. Maybe some relievers, Phillips? I still say we could have kept him.
His control wasn't good before he got nailed by that bat, and it was even worse afterwards. Leiter's pitching better than Wright was, so maybe this is a blessing in disguise.
That is curious, that Giambi's out and Phillips, not Tino, is in. What gives? Is Giambi injured? If he put Tino in last night, why not today?
I didn't want RJ unless it was for other old players, like Gordon.
"Cashman is the GM in name only. Emslie and Connors have more power than he does, yet the man who built the foundation for the four rings, Stick, has no power."
I hope not, but I think this situation lends creedence to what Reggie is saying, the inmates are running the asylum because George isn't right these days. Shouldn't Levine step in and put an end to this, put everyone in their place.
Absolutely. And can the hitters do anything today? It's only two runs.
It will help something, the Jay's.
I agree. I hate to bash Joe, but he says it's the "playoffs" and then manages like it's mid-April.
Joe says, I will not give in to Wells, I can't wait to pitch to Ortiz with a base open and two outs.
C'mon, Yanks. This is golden opportunity.
And damn, I wish he'd put Tino in.
I know, and the problem is made worse by the Umps allowing guys to stand right on top of the plate. You toss Randy for arguing, then you let Candy sit right on top of the plate, grow some balls.
Bubba!
He is definitely heating up.
hardy har har.
Can you have at least 1 good at bat today, please!
Time for Jorge to pull the old step aside and let the fastball clean through!
But ummm...I was just flipping channels - has anyone else noticed that Wade Boggs is now one of the endorsers of the medical HAIR RESTORATION institute? Wow...DUDE, you're a HOFer
He has done that for a while. He is the guy who tried to offer the Ray's his endorsement to go into the Hall of fame as a Ray, for cash. He's a punk.
How many guys will Tanyon plunk, 1, 2?
I saw that one coming. He's been hitting the ball hard today, just not quite hard enough. Until now. :)
You crazy? We have the heart of the order in the 9th!
Top is hot, bottom is cold.
It's lie a gay bathhouse out there.
Shheeeeh.
And apperntly Torre's taking advice, and having Flash warm up early.
I'm telling you. Pull for Minnesota. Pull for Cleveland. White Sox collapse is the only way they are getting in.Red Sox with 7 at home to end the season, no chance, not with Torre on the bench, no fucking way.
But hey, Torre won four rings. He's a fuckin' genius.
Nothing worse than a called third strike to end a game.
They've been banging Jeter insdie for years. Maybe it's time to step back a few inches.
that ball was way to fucking close to take.
It would be considerate not to type words that long, and to use MakeAShorterLink.com or TinyURL.com, to avoid stretching the screen that way and making everybody scroll.
Backing in with a White Sox meltdown is absolutely the only way this team gets in, it's sad, but it's true. You don't win when the team ahead loses, time and time again, you don't make it, simple. Throw in 3 or 4 more Torre losses, it's over.
What a loathsome human.
This is why we can't make the PS. It's not Jetes fault. This offense just wastes too many opportunities. They have done this all year. There is no killer instinct.
BA with RISP and 2 outs: .227 Worst in the AL.
thanks
The offense scored five runs. That's more than enough to win.
Joe wants to get fired!
He said "It's not fun anymore."
The truth is Embree sucks. However, excluding TanGorMo, EVERYBODY sucks in our pen.
Torre has been beaten up for overusing these 3 too often, even when ahead by 4.... but no lead is safe with anyone else. Re: a recent 11-10 game.
Blew it by yanking Leiter.
Blew it by yanking Sturtz.
Blew it by bringing in Embree.
Blew it by not pulling Embree.
Blew it!
It would be nice if there was a stat (or a couple of stats) that was a percentage of run-scoring opportunies converted. I guy RISP and 2 out RISP is the closest we have.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/sortable/index.php?cid=31183
The bad news: everyone's looking pretty tired. Pretty sloppy game, overall. Wright didn't pitch all that well, then he got hit by that bat. And Jason Giambi's having back problems. (Apparently because Jeter made him jump to make that catch.)
I have a feeling this is going to be all about endurance.
AND WITH 15 FUCKING GAMES LEST, YOU MIGHT THINK USING THOSE THREE GUYS, IF THEY ARE NEEDED WOULD BE A SMART MOVE, NO? JOW STILL THINKS THERE ARE 40-50 GAMES LEFT.
I have always thought that accusation was ridiculous. Since when does George have a problem asking his managers himself? That's right Bob Klapisch and Joel Sherman, George has always been a pussy, afraid to call his managers out, come on. They are sportswriters after all, never going to be accused of confusing creativity with actual news. It's half baked George Bush politics, trying to get into reporters heads, pushing public perception that they are too hard on Joe, in an attempt to get them to ask inocuous questions, and it's worked. If Joe has even a small hand in it, he better get his ass fired as a result. Any attempt to interfere with reporters' questions is worse, and borderline illegal, in my mind, than what George did to Dave Winfield, as it goes to the integrity --if there was any to begin with-- in the reporting profession. Has the YES team been hard hitting, ever?
Blew it by starting Sierra.
Blew it by yanking Leiter.
Blew it by yanking Sturtz.
Blew it by bringing in Embree.
Blew it by not pulling Embree.
Blew it!
I just don't think these are damned if you do, damned if you don't decisions. These are not decisions that could go either way, critique rightfully seen as nit picky.
They are blunders, plain and simple. Blame the offense if you like, and I do to a degree, but Joe has got to be smarter.
What the hell was that 3 pitch exchange before he sent Lawton in to run for Jorge, what was that?
To make matters worse, George may well be declining mentally, so for Torre to have his butt boys in the media accuse George of some Machiavellian plot is particularly offensive.
He has had the benefit, since, '96, of managing extremely talented teams financed by one of the highest payrolls in MLB.
You would think that in exchange he would be willing to pay the organization back by helping to developing the next homegrown core, but outside of Cano and Wang, he has been reluctant to show much patience to prospects, since Jeter, and he may only have become the starter because Tony Fernandez injured his elbow during Spring Training of '96.
Can't the media ever acknowledge what a terrible tactical manager Torre is?
This season may be the first during his tenure when the talent differential between the Yankees and the rest of the AL has been diminished (for which the FO deserves blame) to the point where managerial strategy makes a difference in a number of key games.
How does Torre respond to the challenge? By overusing Sierra and Embree, despite their horrendous stats.
I'm sorry, but you need to get a grip. I was completely annoyed and disappointed with the choice of Sierra in RF today and the way we played in general, but this game probably has little to do with the remaining 15 games.
We have 15 games remaining for God's sake. One game won't make or break us, yet. Not when we're only a game back in the loss against Cleveland and Boston. We had a chance to get within .5 of the Sox today and coughed it up, but do you think it means that we won't get that chance again?
We have two series at home right now while Boston goes on the road. If we can make up one game during that stretch we'll be in a virtual tie. Who thought we'd be in this position a few months ago when we were 9 back?
Are the Yankees going to win EVERY game for the rest of the year? Has any team ever had that kind of stretch to close a season? 20 straight wins? Don't be overreactioary fans.
We're within one good weekend of taking over 1st. Keep it in perspective.
Boston has lost 3 out of 7 since we played them. We've made up 2 games on them in a week. There's two weeks left. We can catch them, dammit. Screw the WC.
But for the strangulating effect of the Torre factor, however, I believe that the Yankees would win the division by 3+ games, and would be a lock to win the WS.
I am not pessimistic, rather I am realistic. I do not believe that the worst will happen. I do not prefer to stress the negative over good, truly I don't. I love this team, and will be as happy as anyone when we clinch a playoff spot.
The 6 game streak was wonderful, of course. However those 6 games were over and done, win or lose. We were playing a game today and I cannot sit idly by while I see my manger almost try to chuck the game out the window.
Boston was heading for a clear loss at the start of the 8th inning today. I cannot imagine a successful manager, having clearly yanked his prior reliever too soon, sticking with a third rate pitcher following that walk, I just don't see it. A clear chance to pick up a game was right there, and I have to believe most anyone else would have the guy who gives them the best chance to tie the game out there, whether that be Gordon or Rivera, but clearly not Embree. When he issued that walk, that should have been it, I defy you to tell me that's wrong.
He has used Gordon with 5 run leads and used Mo in the 8th down two runs before. In fact, many of us stood mouth agape wondering what he was thinking then, and today, given the opportunity to do it when it actually made sense, he scoffed. Would we have ultimately won the game, I don't know, but we sure as hell would have had the best chance to win, and that after all, is what a manager is paid to provide.
This is the same thinking that led to starting Kevin Brown in Game 7 last year. Why, because he was rested, not because he gave us the best chance to win, and you all felt the same when you opened your paper and saw his picture and not Mosses' on 3 days rest, or Duque with a tired arm. He is simply not comfy outside the box, it's that simple.
He is giving Sierra AB's because he thinks he will need him in the playoffs. I swear by that analysis.
One more example of bullshit "playoffs" now words, when actions betray them.
He is, for lack of a better expression, putting the cart before the horse, and it's killing us.
In psychology, it's well known that people with low IQs are "stimulus bound." In another words, there are very few degrees of freedom between stimulus and response.
That's Torre.
If Sierra had hit a 3 run homer today and the Yanks had won, none of you would be complaining about Torre's stupid decision to start him in right. It's totally Monday morning quarterbacking.
On a 6 game winning streak, within a game in the loss column, Torre saw an opportunity to get an important player some at bats. Sierra will not contribute to the team if he can't get a few at bats at some point. If that's the case, why even have him on the team? Seriously.
Sheffield shouldn't play the field in Toronto with the turf, and therefore you have to chose between Crosby and Sierra. I understand the gamble. It didn't pay off.
Embree is in the same situation. Why even have him on the team if you can't trust him to get the outs he's paid to get. Gordon and Rivera don't get anymore days off for the rest of the year and that includes a lengthy playoff run, I hope. Torre was playing from behind and went with some guys who he needs to get going. It's the perfect spot to do it.
The fact is, it's easy to blame Torre for these decisions, but if they'd played well and we'd won, how many people would still call them stupid moves? He tried to buy a comeback with his secondary guys, and they flopped. It's their fault more than Joe's.
I won't be a Joe apologist very often, but if we go on to win 5 or 6 in a row and catch the Red Sox now, and the key guys got some rest today, it was worth it. If Sierra breaks out and goes on a hitting tear for the rest of the year, maybe it was worth it.
Today was disappointing, and some things went wrong, but blame the players for not earning their paychecks before automatically jumping on Torre for everything.
I don't understand the knocks on Torre though, at least not the personal ones. Questioning his managing is one thing, but to act as if he's totally incompetent is ludicrous. I was listening to Davey Johnson on WFAN the other day, he made an observation that (most) people always fail to remember when questioning a manager's in-game decisions for the game that the team just played. What you did on the previous days directly effects what you'll do in that day's game. The fact that RJ got himself kicked out and the Yankees bullpen couldn't hold an 8 run lead, then that forced Torre's hand for what he could do on Sunday. These men aren't robots, their chance of getting hurt or becoming ineffective (see Scott Shields in LAA, Tom Gordon last year) because of overuse has to be taken into account. Torre must be able to trust his lefty 'specialist' Embree to face the lefties. Criticizing Torre is one thing, having personal attacks levied against him is another. I truly admire the job he's done this year, I might be in the minority but I'm not afraid to admit it. Could he have done it better? Definitely. Could everyone in the Yankee front office have done a better job? Unequivocally YES. Torre has been fighting an uphill battle all year, most of you feel that any other manager (even a HS coach as it was stated an earlier message) would have done so much better. I'm one of the few that doesn't think that anyone else would have done a better job. I know I'll hear the usual stuff, "Torre cost us 10 games, Torre's decision to use Womack, Torre's decision to bring in Embree to face Kornecko"…blah…blah…..blah…blah…..just shut-up already…..it makes me f-en sick to read that crap.
The book was written a few years back, so he was mostly using dudes like Billy Martin and Bobby Cox as his exemplars, but one of his points is that a new manager can try a bunch of new things and axe a bunch of personnel because he has no loyalties yet, and because that's what he's expected to do. A current manager has less freedom in that regard, so he keeps doing the things he's always done, even if it's obvious to the outside observer that he should switch things up a bit.
I have a lot of respect for Torre, but the guy is burnt out; he doesn't get the results he used to. According to James, this just...happens to managers, over time, so in that theory it's not even his fault, exactly, but still: enough already.
At the very least, get rid of Stottlemyre.
Anyone loses effectiveness when they've been doing the same thing over a long period of time, particularly something which requires motivating people. The same style and message inevitably wears thin. See Pat Riley and the Lakers.
I think there's something to it with Torre, but the flaw with that theory is that Torre has managed a different bunch of guys virtually every year of late. New pitchers, and new sluggers hit the scene like they're going out of style.
To me, we don't need a new manager or a new pitching coach as much as we do a new philosophy. Youth, speed, and craftier pitchers. The hitters we have are old and slow for the most part. The pitchers we have are not guys who have proved that they can wriggle out of tough spots. Mussina can. Small seems to be able to, and Chacon has shown flashed. Wright and Pavano have been hit or miss and have on occasion given up the farm. Brown was bad every time out, and Randy Johnson dominates until someone hits a 3 run homer.
Pre All-Star: 284 .320 .484 .804
Post All-Star: .137 .170 .235 .405
If Sierra hit a 3 run HR, Torre's ill-conceived move might have been camouflaged, but his post break stats demonstrate how incredibly unlikely that possibility was. Consequently, it made far more sense to use the player who has hit .320 .320 .400 .720 in September, especially since lefties hit .324 .379 .495 .875 against Lilly, while righties hit .252 .332 .441 .773. Add to those compelling stats the fact that Bubba may be the Yankees' best defensive OFer, while Sierra may be their worst, and the case is overwhelming that Torre's decision to play Sierra was unsupportable.
I for one will never shut up. Capish?
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