Over at Yankees.com they are running a poll about who the biggest surprise of the season is for the team.

The choices are:

Robinson Cano (6%)
Shawn Chacon (4%)
Jason Giambi (31%)
Aaron Small (39%)
Chien-Ming Wang (21%)

Here's my opinion on these results. Why on Earth would a single human being select Robinson Cano as a bigger surprise than the 3 pitchers on this list? More than 2000 people picked him.

Cano was one of the crown jewels of the Yankee farm system and the subject of virtually every winter ball story in Yankeedom.

Likewise, as happy as I am to see Giambi back in MVP form, he is hardly a surprise next to Aaron Small, his high school teammate. Let's be real. Giambi had plenty to doubt, and a long road to come back, but at least he's been there before. At least you know he's capable of MVP numbers, whatever his troubles in recent days.

Chien-Ming Wang is a good choice for this poll because no one thought the Yankees had a Major League pitcher in their farm system, let alone a darn good one. He scores points there. Likewise, Shawn Chacon has never proved anything in his Colorado days and has been very good for a struggling Yankee staff. He gets some points too.

I'm not sure that 39% for Aaron Small does him justice. I think many of you will agree. This is a guy about to turn 34, who has had virtually no major league time, let alone success, and was probably on the verge of taking up carpetry or something after this season or next. He was on his way out of baseball if things didn't click soon.

This is a guy who is now 7-0 with a sub-3 ERA. This is a guy who I would trust with the ball before anyone currently pitching in the Yankee rotation, save the recent performances of Randy Johnson. I feel as comfortable giving Small the ball as I do with Mike Mussina. He's better than Chacon, Wright, and at this moment at least, he's outperforming Chien-Ming Wang.

Hell, I'd much rather have seen him all year than the wildly over-paid and chronically broken Kevin Brown, and is more poised and consistent than Carl Pavano.

Next year, give me a rotation of:

Randy Johnson
Mike Mussina
Chien-Ming Wang
Aaron Small
Carl Pavano

and I'll be happy. Unless you can score a top young-ish pitcher and move Small to long relief, I'd go to war with that rotation.

Just a fantastic game. But now all the math starts kicking in regarding the Yankees' chances. It sure doesn't look good on the surface, given the team just finished a crucial homestand with 3 wins and 3 losses.

The next 13 games (six on the road, seven at home) are probably their best chance for making up ground. I don't think the team can afford to lose more than 2 games, 3 tops. This means no more than one loss at Tampa Bay, sweeping Toronto, and winning 6 out of 7 on the homestand. The latter is doable because the Yanks won 6 out of 7 on their homestand prior to this one (though it required overcoming two 9th inning deficits in highly dramatic fashion against Toronto and KC).

If the Yankees can go 10-3 or 11-2, while Boston loses 4 or 5 games in the same stretch (most likely by winning 6 of 9 on the road and losing one to the As at home), then they'll have made up 2 games going into the final seven games of the season. In a best case scenario, the teams would be tied going into the final week.

The issue is our offense. While the pitching could be better, all things considered, it's been a gift to get the performances we've gotten to date. But the offense needs to wake up, or else any sustained run for the playoffs and the division is out of the question.

Tampa must be vanquished!!! We need a sweep. Here's how I see the rest of the season panning out....

We gain 2 games on the Red Sox before the final series of the year in Fenway. We enter game one back by a game.

The Yanks will drop game 1, but rally to win the next two. A one game playoff will take place in which the Yankees win in 11 on a Bellhorn home run.

I won't see any of it though, as I will be dead. Heart attack.....

Mike, it sounds silly, but I just don't see this team being able to sweep Tampa, especially with the pitchers being thrown out there...I would be very happy with 2 out of 3.

The situation looks more dire in terms of the WC. The Tribe have won 33 out of their last 46 games. The best chance to make up ground is in the next 9 games, 6 of which the Tribe play against the As and the White Sox.

However, the last ten games are against KC, Tampa and the White Sox...and it may be too much to expect that the last 3 games against Chicago at the very end will matter, even though Cleveland has done a heck of a job making a run. So we may not get any help.

Eric Neel quoted Baseball Prospectus almost gloatingly in pegging the Indians' chances of the WC at 59%, and the Yanks at 25%.

The Yanks might not be able to play as well as Cleveland over the next few weeks, but you know what? They are going to Tampa and they are going to sweep them bastards.

Well, here we go. I think it's as simple as this; throw the numbers out. We can argue those until we are blue in the face.

This is where we find out what this team has got and how they will be judged.

Pitching would be great but we simply must score to have any chance. The pitching staff has an excuse for underperforming, the offense however, does not.

This offense was built to overcome bad pitching, no matter what you may hear.

2 runs, and 1 run, in consecutive days simply won't do it.

If we can score, we have a shot. If we cannot, we're fishing, and at the end of the day, the blame will have to lay with them.

Alex, I'm with you in craving a sweep, but last week's underachieving against those bastards nearly did me in. As demoralizing as losing to Schilling on Saturday was, it wasn't nearly as life-sapping as staring catatonically at the computer screen as MLB Gameday registers "In Play: Run-Scoring Play" seemingly everytime Gomes or Cantu comes to bat, or listening to Sterling's positive demeanor melt away to disgust in the later innings of every game against the Rays.

I think I'm going to be a wuss and not get near a TV or computer the next 3 nights. Too much bad karma.

Hail Mary, full of Grace......

sorry I have nothing original to add. The stats have my head spinning, my nerves are shot, I can't even enjoy these games anymore !

Please Lord, let us sweep TB and let the Sox go in a tailspin.....

The Oakland v. Cleveland series is big. If Oakland takes 2 of 3, which they are certainly capable of, who knows...

On the other hand, Cleveland seems to be buckling down and playing like they actually want to win...I know, I know, seems strange doesn't it?

With regards to that dropped pop-up in the eighth, Kaat and Murcer were speculating that Jeter might've dropped it intentionally to eliminate the faster runner, but I thought they were being a bit delusional. It seemed like a pretty big risk to take at that point in the game and at this point in the season. Then after the game I could've sworn I heard Torre say something like, "That play we worked on during spring training almost backfired when the pop-up took an odd hop off the back of the mound." Did anyone else catch that?

"gave him the gasface". never heard that before.

Well let me begin on a positive note, as fan of baseball, as well as the Yankees, I need to give myself some perspective going down the stretch.

When I was a young man, lo those many years ago, I met a young woman, we began dating, fell in love, blah blah blah, yada yada yada. One day while in Cape Cod on vacation she asked me, "hey my Dad want's us to go to Pawtucket to show some support for my sister's boyfriend, he's catching tonight for the Pawtucket Red Sox."

Initially I cringed at the thought of rooting, in any way, for anyone or anything, associated with the team I grew up, and continue to, despise with a visceral response akin to the body's reaction to ingesting spoiled milk, but hey, it was a baseball game, and it was my girlfriend asking, after all.

The Cather's name was Eric Wedge. Following the game, and on many instances therafter I had the occasion to talk with, share a drink with, and just generally chat with the "young" Catcher from the Wichita State College World Series Champions.

Much to my surprise, he was a truly nice guy. Not the spoiled coddled jock many of us have come to expect these days. He was genuine and sincere and apprecited and loved the game of baseball and the opportunity it provided him. I believe this is more and more rare as athletes choose one sport over another for reason's other than love of the game.

He had been called up to the majors on occasion, with mixed results, but his knees were beginning to feel the strain, and his age, for a Catcher, was beginning to be prohibitive.

He retired and began his managing carrer with Class A Kinston.

Now, why do I bore you with this tale? Because great sports stories are just that, great stories. So, if we must miss the playoffs--which I continue to hope and pray that we do not--I will be pullling for the Cleveland Indians.

It's my guess, that this team with the tight purse strings, in no small way, is winning because of Eric Wedge, and when a truly good person, who loves the game, enjoys success, well, isn't that the way it is supposed to be.

I still think our Yankees can pull this off, but if we don't, there couldn't be a better choice to occupy the Wild Card spot.

Go Yankees!

Hank.

I think that's about as likely as Jeter's "we worked on that in Spring Training" response to his tag of Jeremy Giambi in Game 3.

I'm certainly not being critical, but watching that play yesterday, if it was planned and practiced, it certainly was not executed efficiently, or, in the alternative, Cano was never brought up to speed concerning the possibility of the "infield pop-up plan." He sure as hell should have been if they were planning on using it.

Beth, it's not the same without the music, but here are the lyrics to the song "Gas Face" by Third Base. http://display.lyrics.astraweb.com:2000/display.cgi?3rd_bass..cactus_remixes..the_gas_face

(Kick em in the Grill, Pete)

No way they planned that play. They just got lucky with the result.

Further, I sure hope yesterday's performance by Johnson can silence the Johnson bashers here. He left it all out there for us, hitting 99 MPH on multiple pitches.

He may have had a few shaky outings in this past year, but going down the stretch, he has been about as good as we have a right to expect him to be. He is exhibiting a fire and passion sorely lacking in his teammates.

Yesterday's game was outstanding, but if he goes out there, as he did in his last start, and gives up 3 runs, and we lose, we certainly can't blame him for missing the playoffs.

If this squad can't win when a pitcher goes 7+, and gives up 3, they have no one to blame but themselves. Time for someone other than Giambi to get hot down the sretch, get some 2 out hits!

For God's sake he's even playing lights out at first, lets go guys, lets go Yanees!

Hank,

Further, Joe, if anything was likely joking. We all know what an outstanding sense of humor he has.

Regarding the dropped pop up -

They were talking about it on WEEI (Boston) today, and I didn't catch all of it....but they said that Jeter had a smirk on his face afterwards....as if it was in the plan all along.

Jeter CONSTANTLY has a smirk or a grin on his face. Sometimes it looks like he's trying hard to stifle his laughter. He, more than any other Yankee seems to really enjoy playing baseball.

Beth,

I actually thought it was funny,"Gas Face."

However I have never been a fan of hitters, glaring back at pitchers following an ass-handing from pure testosterone embarassed childishness, it's silly, whether the pitcher is glaring or not. You struck out Millar, is that somehow new to you? You were made to look the fool Millar, deal with it and walk away, like every other God Damn ADULT in the game. Does he really want to go to toe-to-toe with Randy Johnson? They had one thing right last year, they certainly are "idiots."

I wish it was 10-0 so he could have beaned him for being a putz, again, and if we had, everyone who knows baseball would have understood why!

Alex who else gets the gasface? Big gasface for Kevin Brown.

Joe in Boston.

That's just Jeter's way (and WEEI's way of continuing their over-analysis and general lack of inderstanding of the game, which I, in part, blame for their fan's low baseball IQ). That smirk we've seen many many times and have grown to enjoy, it's just Derek, and could have meant anything, including, "wow we fucked that up royally."

Schteeve.

Agreed, and seconded!

Gordon ran away from that ball like it was on fire. I cant imagine him being in on the plan, and thats just not a smart move when the mound is in play. If it had taken a weird hop, it could have been a disaster.

So they can say they planned it if they want, but its time to rethink that plan. Get the sure out.

profound,

That's likely why Jeter smirked, there probably wasn't a plan. See above.

Schteve/St. Sports:

I agree. WEEI (if you listen to them) is a bunch of blowhards. Winning last year was the best thing that ever happened to them (and the worst for us).

Jeter does have that smirk on his face quite often. Kind of like that kid in class that knows the answer to the question while his peers are stumbling and fumbling around...

To me, Jeter is like Jordan was. One step ahead of everyone else.

Kevin Brown get's the Gas Face, The Angry face, The Please Leave Face, the Meathead Face, the Your'e not Smarter than Mel Face . . . and so on.

joe on boston.

Agreed! Too bad it aint Basketaball, where one guy or two guys can carry a squad . . . however, I prefer it that way.

Alex, that 3rd Bass not Base. My younger brother actually went to school with Pete Nice in the late '80s and worked on the college radio station with him. Peter Nash, his real moniker, today owns a baseball memorabilia business in Cooperstown and has written books on old-time baseball, specifically Brooklyn's 19th century contributions. He is also a member of SABR. I'm not sure but I believe he's a Yankees fan.

My bad on the spelling. Yeah, Pete was also a pretty good basketball player as a kid. Huge sneaker-collector/nerd too. I always thought Serch was the one with the MC skills in that duo though.

Yeah, but, Alex, compare Return of the Product to Dust to Dust. It's not even close.

Pop, pop goes the weasel, the weasel
Pop, pop goes the weasel
Pop goes the weasel 'cuz the weasel goes pop

Lennon-McCartney or Springsteen it ain't.

Anyone notice Wakefield chuckle and smirk after Giambi went deep to the short porch. Always makes me laugh when anyone from Fenway Park has a single remark to make concerning another stadium. At least most everyone plays in a "stadium," not an out of date, architectural nightmare which the Commissioner should have forced rebuilt decades ago.

"Ground Rules" are fine and can vary, but the league really has to do something about Fenway especially, as well as Philadelphia and Texas.

I really got a chucke from Klesko and the Paddy's last year whining about Petco, a park still short of the dimensions, with which, Babe Ruth and Lou Gherig compiled the numbers they did. I mean seriously, come on.

Props to San Diego for having the guts to build a baseball field and not a home run-reveue generating farse. I know Ryan, it sure is hard playing baseball, in lieu of banging the little white ball all over the place, makes one have to play the outfield like a professional, so sorry they have the nerve to ask that of you.

Regarding the play in the eighth when Adam Stern was forced after the missed pop fly. My sense, and this comes from years of coaching youth baseball, is that the players involved did what comes instinctively. They knew that Stern was on first and they knew they had an easy force.

The play that made the game was Rivera's snag of Renteria line drive in the ninth. That was not, by any stretch of the imagination, a "look what I found" catch. Rivera was in position to field a ball and showed astonishing reaction time in going after a ball that was about to sail well over his shoulder.

Rivera is what made a good team great way back in the last century when the Yankees last actually won something. Rivera is what is keeping this team in the wild card hunt. Now if Rivera could only change those six games the Tribe has against KC to games against Los Anaheim...

It sucks that even though I wake up today glad that the Yanks and NY Giants won yesterday, I still have a sinking feeling about the weekend series vs. the Sawx. Mostly, I think it's because the Yanks couldn't sweep the Sawx but what bugs me more is their inability to beat the Sawx in the 2nd game and giving in to that f'er Schilling.

I actually expected the Yanks to lose game 1, but win games 2 and 3. Would I have felt better if the Yanks had beaten Schilling? I don't know, but I feel there's more damage done to the Sawx psyche if he loses vs. any other pitcher on their staff.

Schilling got the benefit of missing Sheffield, Posada, and a decent DH. At least he wasn't facing the all-time 2005 line-up vs. the Red Sox which included Flaherty, Russ Johnson, Rey Sanchez, and Tony Womack.

Dimelo,

I think The Unit's performance did more to the BoSox psyche than schillings win. I mean, they know that if it comes down to it, they will NOT beat Randy. What is he now? 4-0 againts the Red Sox... To me, the only reason Schilling had such a good game was because of Yankee hitters trying to hard. I wonder how many of them actually had any long outings with him. It was not Schilling being great, it was the Yankees Bat not being patient and wearing that idiot down.

You're right JohnnyC, if you look at past performance - none of those guys has ever been good. But if you look at this year's performance with the Yanks, Flaherty, Lawton, Sierra and (sadly) Bernie is almost as bad.

Anyone want to figure out the Yanks W-L record in games where 3 (or more) guys with sub-.331 OBPs (league average in the AL this year) got 3+ ABs? Like someone said in Saturday's comments, its like playing a 6-inning game.

What makes it even worse is that, currently, the Yanks have FOUR guys in the top 10 for OBP vs the league average: Giambi 1, ARod 2, Jeter 6, Sheffield 10. No other team has more than 2. Scoring runs should not be a problem for us.

Anyone read that article on Mo that Alex posted? As Joe Morgan (yes, yes, I know, but the next part is so true) said, nothing ever changes with Mo- not even after throwing 50 pitches with the bases loaded and no outs. What a legend, gift, godsend, all of the above. Without a doubt the most valuable pitcher of the recent Yankees- and maybe ever?

I'm responding all over the place here...

//That smirk we've seen many many times and have grown to enjoy//
...or, if you're not a Yankee fan, grown to absolutely despise.

//WEEI is a bunch of blowhards.//
Always have been, and I don't see any reason why they'd change. I'm a Sox fan, and except for the games, I can't stand to listen to WEEI.

//I always thought Serch was the one with the MC skills in that duo though.//
Definitely. But you have to admire a guy who calls himself "Prime Minister."

//I mean, they know that if it comes down to it, they will NOT beat Randy//
That's an exaggeration. If you think that, you might as well say that the Yanks are afraid of Wakefield.

Dimelo.

Baseball Dictionary-2005
The Schilling: "The Schilling" is a selfish and avaricious two legged beast which maunders from place to place in search of the wellspring of its power. Its sustenance includes the laudation and ardor of those who buttress and support the miscreation, but, more importantly, the spoken ignominy and hatred of its enemy grows its power more quickly. Although many have hypothesized and offered conjecture, to truly destroy "The Schilling," the enemy, as The Schilling's true source of omnipotence, must expunge the invidiousness from its speech and its dissertations comprehensively.

We must only think what you wrote (below) and not speak of it, for it is this talk where "The Schilling" gains its power. It feeds from the wicked statements of Yankee fans. The only way to defeat "The Schilling" is to take away its food source, the attention and hatred of fans, this, and only this, the Elder's proclaim, will kill "The Schilling"

See Below Dimelo

"It sucks that even though I wake up today glad that the Yanks and NY Giants won yesterday, I still have a sinking feeling about the weekend series vs. the Sawx. Mostly, I think it's because the Yanks couldn't sweep the Sawx but what bugs me more is their inability to beat the Sawx in the 2nd game and giving in to that f'er Schilling.

I actually expected the Yanks to lose game 1, but win games 2 and 3. Would I have felt better if the Yanks had beaten Schilling? I don't know, but I feel there's more damage done to the Sawx psyche if he loses vs. any other pitcher on their staff."

Wow - I learned something today

http://www.go-brooklyn.com/html/issues/_vol27/27_09/greenwood.html

thanks all.

Yankz,

Come on man, how bout Whitey? I love Mo, but Edward "Whitey" Ford is the most valuable pitcher the Yankees have ever sent to the mound. Mo is certainly in the running for second.

Anyone Read This?

NY Newsday-My Comments Follow the Article.

"Joe Torre recently has become a hot topic within the Yankees' hierarchy. While it's no surprise that there's a front-office split over Torre - there are splits over most things; that's the "charm" of George Steinbrenner's setup - the anti-Torre rhetoric has been turned up a notch, according to insiders.

Although one official said that with the club underperforming, "there's negativity directed toward everyone," others maintain Torre is the recent target for criticism. It didn't help his standing that Lou Piniella's Devil Rays made it an astounding 11-5 against Torre's Yankees. Piniella is the only man seen as a viable replacement for the iconic Torre in the still-unlikely event execs can convince Steinbrenner to ax Torre.

In behind-the-scenes conversations, Torre is now accused by in-house detractors of being aloof, arrogant or even phony, charges that are either generated or exacerbated by what they view as undeserved uniformly excellent media coverage.

Brian Cashman remains Torre's biggest supporter. "We're in good hands with Joe," Cashman said. "The rest of that is just stuff which may or may not be true, and I don't even need to address it."

Torre's detractors say the team lacks "fire," a buzzword they hope will make Steinbrenner more seriously consider switching to the fiery Piniella, who's all but done with Tampa Bay, as Newsday reported in this space two weeks ago.

But while execs believe Steinbrenner is unhappy with Torre now, the owner is understandably skittish about firing a legend, particularly one who has $13 million and two years remaining on his contract. The in-house detractors' hope, if the team fails to reach the World Series, is that they can sell Steinbrenner on being able to publicly sell Piniella as the one worthy replacement.

Torre's clubhouse support still seems solid, beyond middle relievers he often disregards (many of whom have been let go) and perhaps Gary Sheffield. The chronic malcontent has been complaining behind the scenes about his belief that Torre was referring to him in a recent team meeting in which he pointed to "loafing" in the outfield (good guess, Gar, it was you).

Torre is typically unfazed when asked about front-office detractors. "I can't concern myself with it. I have other things to do beyond worrying about my future," Torre said. "I've never been one to worry about my future, even in less secure situations. You can't manage to save your job as opposed to doing the job.""

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I've waffled, and hemmed and hawed on the Joe Torre subject in the past. I must admit that I continue to be undecided and contemplating my position. Further, I love Gary's bat, but how can he possibly be angry at Joe for calling him out and accusing him of something he was actually doing? Is the world really out to get you Gary?

As for Piniella, I don't understand why even reporters--who are actually supposed to research and prepare a balanced account of what they are "reporting" before they put pen to paper--are continuing to mention the Piniella possibility without, at the very least, reporting the likely barriers to any deal being made to bring Piniella to NY, which include:

1. Just for fun, Yankee environment--no smoking in the dugout--I had to throw that in there, classic Lou, just classic. He will actually have to wear a uniform to games, not a t-shirt or a pullover. He will have to face the NY media—oh I would love to watch that unfold.

Seriously, Sweet Lou has said publicly, as recently as last week, that he is going to honor his contract.

However, we all know George is fond of Lou, and that seems to be the only factor weighing in favor of this deal.

2. Piniella still has one year remaining on his contract, and any negotiations with the Ray's which allow Lou to depart, will likely foreclose the Yankees as a possibility.

3. Tampa Bay ownership has been very vocal concerning their opposition to a possible deal which would send Piniella to the Yankees, most importantly, new principal owner Stuart Sternberg (who has also said recently he is committed to putting more money into the team to compliment the young talent already there, which will obviously appeal to Lou no matter how spurious it may be), who could soon replace Vince Naimoli, has said he opposes the deal, other owners who include P.J. Benton, Joseph Chlaparty, Mel Danker, Franklin Eck, Florida Progress Corporation, Claude Focardi, Jim Goodmon, Robert Kleinert, Gary Markel, Arthur Nagle, Vincent Naimoli, Daniel O'Connell, Frank Richardson, Lance Ringhaver, Thomas Sansone, Gus Stavros, and Stephen Waters--have been openly opposed to any deal.

They have also voiced their public disgust with George Steinbrenner's continued insistence, and support for NY Yankee games to be aired live on Tampa Bay area radio, and in some areas, broadcast on television. The group has consistently couched these radio broadcasts as an affront to the Devil Ray Market Area and have attempted to convince the Commissioner's office to step in and somehow stop the broadcasts as a violation of League rules in place when the Devil ray's were awarded the franchise. The ownership has, in their comments, intimated that their displeasure with Mr. Steinbrenner in this regard, would make it unlikely that they would deal with him, most notably concerning Lou Piniella. Further, any deal would likely negotiate away the lucrative Tampa radio broadcasts.

They have also voiced concern over George's marketing of the Tampa Yankees, which they believe has hurt Devil Ray attendance, however silly that may be.

They have as much as said publicly that any deal which will allow Piniella out if his contract next year, will likely be contingent upon Lou agreeing not only NOT to join the NY Yankees, but will likely foreclose the American League East completely.

So, in closing, please take what you hear from so-called "sports journalists" regarding Lou Piniella with a grain of salt. They are after all, sports-writers, not Nobel Lauriats.

I find it highly irresponsible that newspaper and television reporters have the nerve to report, as recently as today, reports which lead Yankee fans to believe that Lou Piniella is a likely replacement for Joe Torre, without including the deal's obvious road-blocks.

The earliest likely date Lou Piniella could possibly join the NY Yankees is prior to the 2007 season. If Sternberg follows through on his word, and puts money into this team next season, they could very well finish second in the AL East, and if that occurs, Lou will likely want to see it through, with the guys he's grown and nurtured and mentored these past couple years.

I'm not saying it's impossible, just very unlikely.

Stormer Sports,
Whatever kills "The Schilling" (in either sense: literal or figurative), I'm all for it.

Ok All. Although my above encyclopedia entry is embelished, it is for the most part true.

So!

Then we shall never speak of "The Schilling" again. We must take away what it needs most, attention and hatred! It will enter our house and we shall enter its, and we shall have to face "The Schilling" directly, but we will so without fueling the creatures ability to kill us or as "The Schilling" has said "make 55 thousand Yankee fans shut up." Resist, resist and we shall send the "The Schilling" back to where it came from.

Agreed?

regarding the most surprising poll-I agree that Giambi shouldn't have been nearly as surprising as Small. In fact, there were a lot of us that thought Giambi would be fine and endured a lot of grief in April and May for it. Wang was, like Cano, also predicted to be a star.

Shaun P, excellent point on the OBPs. Yet Torre has been fixated on "roles" in his line-up, so much so that a great deal of the season was wasted sending up "6 inning" line-ups where he exacerbated the holes an opposing pitcher could exploit. With a better, more versatile bench, Torre could have mitigated the bottom end problems by judicious pinch-hitting as needed instead of routinely killing potential rallies just because some hitter fit his concept of what a #2 hitter or #5 hitter or #3 hitter was...or this alternating lefty-righty thing which, help me, has proven to be no obstacle to opposing pitchers and pitching staffs.

Why would, if it really exists beyond the fevered imaginations of certain beat reporters, an anti-Torre faction in the Yankees' hierachy be necessarily wrong? Is his management of this team beyond reproach, challenge, or even scrutiny? Is no one accountable. Was he elected by the Supreme Court, for chrissake? This kind of logic would have Davey Johnson still managing the Mets, 20 years on. It means Terry Francona can count on being the Red Sox skipper until he croaks because he happened to be sitting in the dugout when they finally got it together.

Yankees won the coin toss. If there's a tiebreaker with the Sox, it will be at the House That Ruth Built.

JohnnyC,

It's not that I am arguing that it doesn't exist, or for that matter, not justified. I'm not sure how you extrapulated that he is "beyond reproach." I don't think anyone would argue that to be the case.

I would just like to see some more complete efficacious reporting, in lieu of headline grabbers like "Torre Out, Piniella In?" which are clearly designed to grab our eyes for advertising revenue. It seems clear that it's either utter incompetence, which would not be a stretch for most beat reporters, or an overt misrepresentation of fact, when clearly the problems with the story's argument or report is either wholly untrue or fails to articulate clear obstacles.

Elected by the Supreme Court? Hmm.

randym- I thought there was no way in hell boston could win a game 7 in the house that Ruth built. I don't know how much the gods favor us anymore.

yankz.

I keep tellin ya. They have to stop playing God Bless America. The Gods don't favor us because they're pissed. Assuming some God exists, I contend they are angry because we are articulating and representing a position that they favor America over other places they have blessed. "We blessed here, we belssed there, we blessed America for crying out loud, will they put a sock in it already, no, oh really, A POX ON YOU then!" Clearly said Gods must have more important tasks to attend to and are quite tired of having to respond, and then ignore, these daily requests at around 9:30 EST, wouldn't it be getting on your nerves by now.

Bring back Take Me Out To The Ball Game or, well, I'd entertaing suggestions, and bring back our winning ways.

Just a thought.

Is this how Sox fans felt? Believing there might actually be something to things like that . . . eeeks, yuck!

Kevin Brown gets the big gas face....bbbrrrrrrr........

Also, David Wells gets the gas face, Jason Varitek gets the gas face, Trot Nixon gets the gas face, and Curt Schilling gets the hot tamale gas face.

....plus, MC Hammer still gets the gas face.

What about Hammer? Bbbbbbrrrrr..... What about Hammer? BBBBBBRRRRRRRRR!!!!!

All post-1998 hip-hop gets the gas face.

Serch better than Prime Minister Pete? Bah!

Do you doubt this shade of vanilla?
I'll play Elvis and you play Pricilla.

Stormer,

Agreed. Nothing more annoying - or disturbing - than forced patriotism.

Well Boston starting to put Toronto away. Ortiz blast, Manny blast. Anyway Boston's up 3-0 and threatening more in the 6th. Ted Lilly knocked out of the game.

//With a better, more versatile bench, Torre could have mitigated the bottom end problems by judicious pinch-hitting as needed . . . //

Damn straight, JohnnyC - you took the words right out of my mouth.

Some of the blame for the bench is certainly Torre's (for how it's used), some is the "front office" (whoever the hell that encompasses - for who's on it).

To me, the bench/depth is why the Sox beat the Yanks last year, and came so close in '03, and are ahead now. Their bench avoids making outs. Meanwhile, all our bench does is make outs. It wasn't always this way - go back and look at what the '99 rosters.

The Sox know how to build a deep bench that gives away as few outs as possible. AND they've shown they can do it from year to year. Until the Yanks build a deep, out-avoiding bench, this will put us at a tactical disadvantage. Making fewer outs, the Sox will have more opportunities to score runs, while we will have less. Sad but true.

Oak with a 1-0 lead over Cleveland in the 7th. I don't feel like rooting for anyone in this one or it might end up one of these Be Careful What You Wish For things

mike, may I interject for a second?

Elroy Cohen gets the gas face.

And brockdc, I gotta agree with you: The Prime Minister gets my vote.

Wow, 5 run bottom of the 7th for Toronto now tied 5-5 with Boston.

Go, Jays!

Who's they hit those runs off? Arroyo?

Fouk and Timlin mostly.

Arroyo gave up some baserunners and Fouk and Timlin produced a sloppy finish including a 3 run homer off Timlin by Wells I think after Fouk wasn't sharp and Timlin came in

Timlin gets out of the 8th with a double play. Boston coming up in the 9th

Ortiz coming up with 2outs in the 9th. Manny on deck

Ortiz walks. Manny coming up with 2 outs, one on in the top of the 9th. Score tied 5-5

Manny singles. 2 on 2outs.

Cleveland lost at least. Too bad Oakland had to win for it to happen, but that's the breaks.

Come on, Jays! You have Boston's number. You can beat these guys!

On MNF, the Eagles losing the Battle of the Birds. Kind of a surprise, at least to me.

strike 3 to Varitek. To the bottom of the 9th score tied at 5. Let's go Jays

That stuff was crazy at midfield before the game, and the guys getting ejected beforehand. Still didn't make me care enough to stay with the game though. Varitek strands the runners- good for him.

Who's pitching now? Is it still Timlin?

JeremyM

As my mom says, put out one fire at a time. Thanks Oakland!

Papelbon is pitching. 2 outs.

Yeah, those brawls before the game were crazy. I guess they're still carrying a grudge from last year's playoffs. The second brawl apparently started because the Falcons didn't like the Eagles standing on their logo.

Papelbon? I thought he was a starter.

Why do you think the NFL crushed the XFL, not that it was nearly as good, but they saw something that might have worked. I went to all the games in LA while I was living there, and it wasn't that bad.

The NFL doesn't need an AntiTrust exemption, they simply crush all in their path by threatening networks and advertisers.

NFL--see all the fights last year, and that garbage before the game tonight?

NFL--see the Visa Sky Cam, that was first used in the XFL, then coopted by Tagliabue?

NFL--see all the silly WWE like hype, drama, this guy hates this guy, all hyped by the league amd the coverage?

NFL--see the revenue sharing and salary cap keeping profits in the hands of the league and owners, instead of players?

They finally have what they wanted, Professional Wrestling with a game in between.

Sounds crazy I know, but it's really gotten ridiculous and it's only the first week . . . you can ridicule me now.

Bonds back . . . what a joke.

I feel bad for McNabb, but the Eagles letting T.O. play and putting up with that crap. They should have just released him. I can't help but root against them.

According to espn.com he's made 6 relief appearances and 3 starts in the show.

I know, it's amazing, they have no bullpen, only 3 starters, and we still cant seem to catch em.

brockdc,

No more God Bless America, it's a curse and damn you George, I'll believe what I fucking want, don't force that shit on me!

They'll never win a Superbowl with the likes of T.O. on their team. That kind of ego is nothing but trouble.

But I don't care. I hate the Eagles. NFC East division rivals, y'know. ;-)

The NFL players definitely have it a lot worse than other leagues, especially baseball. The NFL system is pretty messed up, especially how guys can get cut while recovering from football-related injuries.

The most comical meme being circulated by Joel Sherman and others is that Torre is being undermined by George's flaks on YES who have the audacity to ask Torre tough questions after games:

http://www.nypost.com/seven/09102005/sports/yankees/27954.htm

JOE Torre is quiet, not dumb. He knows he is a target these days for George Steinbrenner and a few nefarious types in the front office. He recognizes the post-game show on YES is now being used as a public forum to second-guess managing moves, and that the marching orders for those bludgeoning questions are coming from the highest reaches of his own organization.

___

Are you freakin' kidding me? Shouldn't every manager be asked tough questions when his decisions don't work out? Shouldn't there be accountability without the questioner being falsely accused of playing the "blame game."

This ludicrousness is further evidence of how Torre gets to have it both ways. He falsely claims that he won't respond to George's comments until after the season, but then he has his lackeys in the media do his bidding for him by leaking these silly, if not outright paranoid, attacks.

It's apparent that Torre now believes he is beyond reproach, despite the manifest reality that he is an awful tactical manager, and that he has been lucky to have been the manager of a team that was loaded with talent when it won the four rings.

Torre is similar to the rooster who tries to take credit for the sunrise.

Was Timlin ineffective, or is the game going on so long they had to pull him?

I'm telling you, they should just release him, see who picks up the trash. I stil say they would be better without him.

Timlin gave up the 3 run BOMB!

randym77,

How dare you say that, John Kruk sayd Timlin is a stud, how dare you!

Bonds coming up, think they'll walk him?

I think they should accidentaly hit him in his kneecaps.

Although I do, gulp, respect Francona not being afraid to bring his closer in, in the 7th.

2-2 Bonds.

I dunno, is Foulke the closer?

3-2.

Foulke, lol, no seriously man. Stop it.

Bonds, Double, way way deep, holy shit. Hot off the top of the wall, hate him or not, he is scary scary scary.

I pray to you George, I know he's the best but George no, no trades for Barry, George I beg of you, George I know you're thinking it, now stop, want some ice cream, you know you always liked ice cream, new horse, ship, ship shaped like a horse, yea Georgee I'll get you some, how's that, good good, now just lay down and relax. Hush little baby . . .

Ugh, Ortiz. Oh well, at least Cleveland lost.

The A's are my favorite team this week, outside of the Yankees.

The cookie monster does it again. HR by Ortiz, WALK THE GUY!!!!!!!!!!!

Manny is half as dangerous.

Last opportunity for the Blue Jays to be spoilers coming up.

Here George, here's your lolly, no, no Barry George, he's a meanie, he'll steal your lunch. Shhhh Shhhh Georgee I understand, want want want, you want him, you want him, you want him, I know you want him, stop with the stomping George, I know I know Ortiz Ortuz Ortiz, yes George, my mistake, I admit it, shhhh, shhhh, it's ok George. Repeat after me George, it will be Ok, I know I know, it will though I promise, yes George Barry is very good, shhhh, I know Babe and Barry in pinstripes, yea yes I know Georgee, want want, yes I know, here's Bellamy Road, stroke, stroke, beautiful huh, yea yee, BANG! BANG! Jesus George you shot the fucking horse. Jesus Christ man! Loser you say! Worthless you say! Second best you say! Wow Goergee, Ok Ok Ok, lets get that Giants GM on the line.

Ortiz, everything we should be, and more!

Jason needs some help guys!

Crap, Bonds is going to be a Yankee, isn't he?

Bonds a Yankee? Oh, gawd.

Though I could see it happening. Especially if the Red Sox win. Their pitching is lame, and their fielding is worse. All they have are big, fat, bats. Maybe that's what it takes these days.

JeremyM,

Part of me hopes not, why else would he play if not for trade bait, they're too far out to catch the Padres, they want to trade him in the offseason for some young guys, and given the only people on the planet who like him reside in San Francisco, it might be hard, he's just the best, if he's healthy, he just rarely shits the bed like our guys in late innings, at least he'll get on base, which I sure don't see our guys doing. As Don King would say, he's superfulous, he's miraculous, he's stupenous, he's downright amazing. Bottom 9, 2 out, down by 1, you want Arod, Jeter, or Bonds? Answer honestly!

And For Gods Sake, why are people still pitching to Ortiz when they don't have to? At least Manny has a weak spot! How many times does he have to do this.

Yes George, Ortiz, yes yes, yes I fucked up and should be fired George, kill myself you say, ok George, you'll call my mom george, thanks . . . "Mrs. Cashman?" . . . Bang! Thump!

Amazing to watch Ortiz over the past few years ... you got to give him his due, he is a remarkable hitter.

How many tie games has he won with a hit or home run? And how many have come with two outs? I was thinking after he hit it tonight, "time to get rid of the f-----g" DH already", but I probably wouldn't feel so strongly about it if he played for the Yanks.

Hell, Bonds would probably be a better outfielder than what we currently have! Or so it seems sometimes.

I'm going to assume Bonds is back on the Mongomery Burns Brain & Nerve Tonic.

What, you think Bonds would make our team and chemisrty worse? Dump Gary to San Fran with a prospect, call up that kid from Trenton whose out playing in the Fall League right now and plunk him in Center, or call him up and plunk him in Right, and grab a decent Right Fielder, and grab Barry, he needs to DH, want's to DH, if we don't do it, Boston or Minnesota or Anaheim might. Boston can move Ortiz to first, dump Millar as they have made no secret of their want to do, and DH Bonds, better us than them.

Ortiz, Bonds, Manny, you wan't to face that?

See My Vest, See My Vest, Made of Real Gorilla Chest.

See My Loafers, Former Gophers . . .

randym, the Sox's pitching has improved notably in the last two weeks, particularly the starters -- there was a stat in the paper about how the starters in 6 of the last 9 games have gone at least 8 innings. That sounds at least as good as what the Yankees have accomplished recently, and is pretty good by most standards.

Relief pitching and defense, agreed that there are huge questions marks there for the Sox. That's where the hitting has bailed them out, mostly.

Not a good outcome in Toronto, given this was one of the most favorable pitching matchups of the series (Lilly is supposed to be a Sox-killer).

Even scarier, with the A's myriad prospects, Billy Beane might throw out the book and grab him, that would be perfect for him, Bay Area, good Oakland team, GULP!

"I'm going to assume Bonds is back on the Mongomery Burns Brain & Nerve Tonic."

Nice reference! Of course, that would explain Bonds' gigantism...

Max,

I read that too. But beejeeessuuus, can't the opposing team ever grab one of these from the Sox? I hate to think about Cleveland against KC, oh no.

Off Topic, is there something I don't see, hear, about Madden, why is it networks keep dropping off truckloads of cash at his house. He coached? Really? Really coached, or more like Bobby Bowden "Coaches?" I just don't get it.

Mattingly, Cut that Hair! What did I tell you!

Stormer

I'll take Bonds in pinstripes in a NY minute; yes, with 2 out and tie game, there is no one I'd rather have at bat. I'm fine with the juice, too. So long as he hits for NY and against Boston, I'm all for him. DH or OF, it doesn't matter. Give him the cash and sign him long enough to break the HR record.

uburoisc.

Amen brother!

Well, I'm not really ok with the juice though. Happy HGH day!

Dude, It would be nice simply to get a guy on base! I called the 6-9 hitters to remind them that bases are those square white things each 90 feet.

Although George may not be in a "spending mood" following this debacle.

Step aside A-Rod, if the Yankees don't make the post-season Ortiz gets the MVP. This guys a friggen clutch animal. And every time he wins another game George is muttering "I told that damn Cashman just to get him and figure out where he plays later" I went to take care of some stuff after Ortiz homered in the 9th and I sort of figured Boston won when on the Toronto radio feed when I got back all they were doing were oohing and ahing about Ortiz and how incridibly far Manny's home run had been.

"Gordon could not see the ball, while Cano, Jeter and Rodriguez rushed in. But nobody took control and the ball landed safely on the ground. Fortunately, Cano had the presence of mind to rush back to second, and the ball took a lucky hop into Rodriguez's glove. He threw to Cano and they retired the lead runner."

Can someone explain this to me? I was screaming "No!!!!!!!!" at the top of my lungs and gesticulating and pacing like a raving lunatic when this happened so actually missed the outcome. By the time I focused back in on the game, I noticed an out had been recorded and eventually realized, "of course, infield fly."

But now you're telling me it wasn't? Why not? Isn't that the textbook example of an infield fly?

Marc,

As I said earlier:

Yes George, Ortiz Ortiz you said, I know, yes yes, yes I fucked up and should be fired George, kill myself you say, now you say, Kevin Brown, yes yes, I suppose you're right, ok George, you'll call my mom George, thanks . . . "Mrs. Cashman?" . . . Bang! Badump-Thump!

Weeping, I was wondering that myself, but felt like a fool asking, so thanks buddy, just kidding. I didn't read the coverage, but maybe because the Ump never called it, but why not, to prevent an intentional drop-dp?

Or maybe there would have been an out no matter what, runner advanced at his own risk, but could have remained at first, but they said force, and that's what I didn't get.

I thought that type of force was exactly what the rule was intended to prevent:

There was no force at third, which is required by the rule, that's why, wow, can't belive I didn't remember that. Further, tere also has to be less than two out.

Wow I feel silly.

I blame my little league coach for not drilling that in my head, every time this comes up, I don't remember, and then I do, it's very odd indeed. Another reason I love this game.

Well, Tomorrow is Tampa. I never thought I would say that with such foreboding and trepidation. 2005 is a very odd year indeed.

Let's hope they don't fall prey to a universal obstacle.

When you have to win, it's hard to make it fun, and when it's not fun, it's very difficult to win.

Unfortunately this has been the Yankees' problem since falling so far behind early.

Lets Go Yankees. Play loose but play well, lets win these three!

The Yankees are either good enough to finally sweep TB and start a long winning streak on the road or they're not. If they're not, they won't make the playoffs, and Boston will likely repeat. That's an unpleasant thought, but I can accept it.

Stormer and Paul,

I assume then, after reading 104 and 108, that you're ready to give the MVP to the Big Papi? The man you would least like to face with the game on the line?

There is only one argument against giving the award to Papi: he's a DH and the voters don't like DHs.

There is only one argument against giving the award to Arod. He plays for a loser and the voters don't like losers.

So what are they gonna do?

I just saw Bonds' double on CNN. Some are saying it should have been a homer. Jeez.

I don't expect to sweep TB. I think we have a better chance of sweeping everyone else on the schedule, including the Sox. If we can win two out of three at Tampa, I'll be very happy. If we win one out of three, I won't be surprised. Tampa is playing very well these days, and we just don't match up well with them. Kind of like the fearsome New England Patriots, stomping everyone into the dirt, but always struggling against the pitiful Miami.

AP's report blamed Robinson Cano for that misplayed popup. They said he called for it, but then backed off. (Perhaps understandably, with Jeter and A-Rod also running in. A rookie would have to have balls of steel to push those two aside.)

But Torre seemed to put the blame on Jeter. He said Jeter is the quarterback, he should take charge. He was probably the farthest away, though.

Wouldn't have happened with Mo on the mound.

>I assume then, after reading 104 and 108, that you're ready to give the MVP to the Big Papi?

No, not ready to give him the MVP; I agree that a DH shouldn't get it unless there is no other deserving candidate.

>The man you would least like to face with the game on the line?

Yes. Undoubtedly. He is an extraordinarily tough out, dominates the strike zone a la Bonds, and can hit for power to all fields.

Paul,

Than who? Arod? Valuable? They coulda finished second without him. (Not necessarily my argument, but one the voters consider.)

In #130 debris posted:

"There is only one argument against giving the award to Arod. He plays for a loser and the voters don't like losers."

Be careful, man. I know what you mean, but you might want to rephrase that a bit. The Yanks can't be considered "losers" this year by any stretch. They are probably going to close things out with more than 90 wins, and while that's a disappointment in Yankeeland and for a 200+ million dollar club, it's far from being a "loser".

The Royals are losers. The Pirates are losers. The Rockies are losers. The collapsed Orioles can be considered losers for what happened to them this year. The Yankees, at worst, can be considered disappointments, or underachievers. We might be watching the playoffs from home this year, but so will a handful of pretty darn good teams.

Plus, your argument doesn't stand up completely. A-Rod won the MVP a few years ago on the last place Rangers.

Sure I'd give it to A-Rod. He's having a historically great season (best 3rd basemen ever for the Yanks), and without him, the Yankees wouldn't even be in contention.

Debris,

My comments above notwithstanding. Ortiz dominance notwithstanding.
The DH rule, creating an addittional MLB position notwithstanding.

I will never support a DH winning the MVP award.

I will never support induction into the hall by a player who plays his majority of games at DH.

The legitimacy of the position under the rules notwithstanding, baseball is a two way sport, the DH is permitted, but by this virtue alone, does not priveleges of regular players permit, period!

Mike,

Give me a break. Am I crazy or did AROD not win the MVP with Texas? A team which was out of contention in July!

debris,

The Voters give no value to the "Valuable" portion of the award, if they did, there wouldn't even be a discussion in the NL between writers, Pujols is great, but certainly not the most "Valuable." Adruw Jones, hands down, the fact that the argument exists is another argument in favor of putting the award where it belongs, with the players, and away from the writers altogether.

Why are some of you complaining about the lack of depth on the bench being a key factor why we are behind Boston this year? The bench could be better, but if our starters could simply have won the season series against Tampa, we are in 1st place now! To me its pretty simple and clear and tonight they need to start playing that way and have the game put away before we even start thinking about the bench.

Also, even considering the struggles we have dealt with on the pitching staff this year, our offense needs to score a minimum of 4 runs a game (I don't think that's too much to ask) and we probably would be in 1st place - look it up!

Finally, God Bless America! - I like hearing it everynight and if you don't, feel free to live somewhere else!

debris' argument is flame bait rooted in the anti-ARod pathology that still possesses Red Sox fans. By this logic, ARod only cranks out good numbers for "losers" and isn't "clutch".

Last time I checked, the "loser" tag doesn't apply to teams that are 18 games over .500 and contending for the playoffs and their division with 20 games left.

But I guess the exuberance of a game winning homer from a DH (a talented one, granted) that salvages an ugly bullpen meltdown might make one a little rabid.

Stormer...

"Mike,
Give me a break. Am I crazy or did AROD not win the MVP with Texas? A team which was out of contention in July!"

That's exactly what I said isn't it? I wrote:

"Plus, your argument doesn't stand up completely. A-Rod won the MVP a few years ago on the last place Rangers."

I would vote for Ortiz as the MVP in the right situation, but not this year.

As a DH, you'd have to lead the league in an handful of hitting stats by such a wide margin as to eclipse the chances of everyday fielding players. You'd have to win the Triple Crown, or the batting title by 40 points, or the home run race by 15 dingers....something like that.....

Failing that, especially when there's a guy with huge numbers that plays one of the toughest positions in the field, who is a household name and a former MVP, you stand little chance.

A-Rod is like the Heisman favorite or Tiger on the back nine right now. As long as he plays out the rest of the year at par, he'll be the MVP.

If he double bogeys.....then you have a race.

The Heisman favorite only needs to win his games, put up good numbers, and smile for the cameras and the trophy is his. If he trips on his own shoelaces, fumbles into the endzone, and breaks his arm trying to wrestle a defensive lineman for the ball, then you have problems.

For some teams, winning 90 games can be considered success. For a $200 million team, reserving tee times the day after the season ends is utter failure.

Derek Jeter has said it himself. Anything short of a World Series win is a total failure for this team that hasn't won a WS in this century, er, millenium.

As for the MVP, the voters will usually only give it to a player on a team that didn't win if they can't find a suitable candidate on one of the three division winners. Giambi and Soriano were the top offensive players on the Yanks in '03, but they weren't about to give the award to Giambi and his .250 average nor to Soriano and his 91 rbi. Torii Hunter hit 26 HR and batted .250. Eric Chavez only hit 29 hr and batted .283. A-Rod stood head and shoulders above all of them and got the award.

A-Rod may be more deserving than Ortiz, despite his shoddy, yet flashy defense (-7 RAA over at BP), but he doesn't stand head and shoulders above the flashy Ortiz. (Flashy because he knows when to hit 'em.) BTW, I don't think Manny will take votes from Papi. I don't see how anyone could vote for Manny, what with his need for a day off every week or so and his general laziness when not holding a bat.