Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
Yankees v. Rangers Game 4
2005-08-14 08:38
by Cliff Corcoran

We'll be back in action tomorrow. In the meantime, here's another open thread for ya.

2005-08-14 12:11:06
1.   randym77
Extra innings yesterday, today looks like it might be a 5-inning game. It's pouring. At least the Yankees are winning...
2005-08-14 12:40:38
2.   Marcus
Any chance the game starts up again? The radar makes it seem like it could clear up soon. Will the field be too wet to continue?
2005-08-14 14:02:23
3.   Alex Belth
Another dinger for Rodriguez today. Man, the dude is hot.
2005-08-14 14:08:14
4.   Rich
Chacon didn't have great stuff, but he got by on guts. He deserves the W.

Matsui's HR was huge, coming of a pitcher, Shouse, who he had been 0-10 against.

Why Torre would use Sturtze for a second inning after the Yankees were up by six is the reason he needs to be fired.

2005-08-14 15:05:10
5.   randym77
A-Rod had a great day. So did Posada and Bernie. It was a good game for Yankees fans. No one-run win this time!
2005-08-14 15:16:09
6.   JeremyM
Sturtze needed work to rebuild his confidence, just like Gordon did in game 3 of the ALCS.

Anyway, great win, great sweep. Chacon is shaping up as a great acquisition, he's been far better than I ever dreamed. Hopefully Wright is strong tomorrow, because Small has been great for us so far and doesn't deserve the demotion.

2005-08-14 15:23:21
7.   singledd
Rich: IP for Sturtze: 62, Gordon 60, Mo 54. When starters go 150-200 IP/year, what should a reliever be expected to go without jeopardizing their arm? Sturtze was a starter most of his career. Now, Sturtze is online to pitch 87 innings for the year. Gordon and Mo less.

Torre's FO had a very bad winter. Maybe their worst in recent history. Now Torre has 4 starters on the DL, all for about 1/2 the season or more. FOUR. While I also question some of his moves, he has very little to work with and walks a tightrope everyday. All in all considered, he hasn't done that bad.

With all the problems we've had, if RJ was at least above average this year, we would be very close to 1st.

We just won our 5th in a row, sweeping Texas. Oakland and Cleveland lose, and the Sox are down (but might get off with a rainout). A pretty good weekend,

2005-08-14 15:31:06
8.   BklynBomber
singledd, I'm with you on Torre. I'm also going to duck and cover after I post this, but if the Yanks bring home #27 with this roster and all the injuries, Joe gets my vote for Manager of The Year.

Boston is overdue for a little skid, so hopefully we can pick up a game or two this week.

Go Yanks!

2005-08-14 16:26:08
9.   Chucksax
This makes two days in a row with lots of rain at Yankee Stadium, and none in NJ, thirty miles west. >sigh< My poor, poor, yellow lawn...

How many here were surprised that Torre let Proctor still pitch when he let two baserunners on in the 9th? I thought Torre'd pull him and bring in Gordon.

Still, I'm happy the Yankees pulled off this sweep.

2005-08-14 16:40:08
10.   Rich
A quick examination in the decline in Sturtze's stuff over the last month should offer all the evidence one needs to realize that he has been overused.

The analogy between a starter's IP and a reliever's IP is inapt.

A starter usually goes six or seven innings. A reliever goes one or two. That is the workload to which they have become accustomed to.

It's like trying to assert that today's starters should be able to pitch on three days rest, as was once the case, and be part of a four man rotation in the absence of a period of adjustment, because that was once the norm.

Pitchers have preset roles.

The best way to boost Sturtze's confidence would be for him to be used judiciously, not foolishly, as Torre is prone to do.

The Yankees' payroll is $50+ million higher than the next highest team's payroll. Torre has done his best to negate that advantage.

If the Yankees win the WS it will be because they have overcome the Torre handicap.

2005-08-14 17:03:14
11.   brockdc
"...if the Yanks bring home #27 with this roster and all the injuries, Joe gets my vote for Manager of The Year."


2005-08-14 17:49:32
12.   markp
Relief pitchers use and abuse is measured in appearances as well as innings. Torre himself admitted he overused Gordon in 2004, and his overuse of set-up men throughout his career has been documented by smarter people than us.
Sturtze shouldn't have pitched today. There was no need.
2005-08-14 20:34:54
13.   BklynBomber
OK. Either Joe was the Pat Riley of the Showtime Yankees ('96-'00), who's job was to not screw up the lineup card he handed the umps, or he just got real dumb, real fast.

I dunno about 'people smarter than us', either. I always question hacks who are paid to have a 'take' before a deadline. Their (more often off-base than accurate) screed seems to get picked up by bloggers and blog posters alike, yet always disappears without explanation when it is wrong.

I'm not by any means defending every move Torre has made this year — but Jesus H. Christ — he's been dealt a short hand this season and the team is still in play.

If RJ was half of his former self, if Wright was never signed in the first place, if Brown (remember him?) didn't put us in a 8 run hole after 2 innings every start, if Pavano wasn't Ed Whitson II, if Jeter hit better than .250 w/RISP, if Moose could go 7 each time with us in the game, if Cash isn't put in the position of signing May, Nomo and Kaat, and if the bench is lacking a Tony Clark, Olerud, Cairo, etc — just blame Joe for the pitching.

Sweet Lou, you listenin'? Never mind, you've been through this. My bad.

2005-08-14 20:39:03
14.   sam2175
Torre and his circle of trust. I think he might have co-wrote parts of "Meet the Parents". Sturtze had to pitch 2 innings today.

So who are we demoting to make room for Wright? I really hope it is Franklyn, he is a disaster waiting to happen.

Regardless of the hand Torre has been dealt, he cannot escape blame for the ineffectiveness of this bullpen: it is a direct consequence of his distribution of the workload. And Tony Womack's final number of PA's and number of ABs at number 2 negate any consideration for manager of the year.

2005-08-14 21:03:35
15.   BklynBomber
Ineffectiveness of the bullpen directly affects distribution of the workload. That's the problem. Not the other way around.
2005-08-15 05:36:48
16.   tommyl
While I don't personally agree with every move Torre has made, I feel like he's done a very good job given the hand he's been dealt. Are people forgetting how well he has handled the various aspects behind the scenes?

A question for those calling for his head: Who would you rather manage? and it has to be realistic, as in someone the Yankees could actually hire. I honestly can't think of anyone I'd really prefer, but that's just me.

2005-08-15 09:02:25
17.   rsmith51

I think that Torre does deserve a lot of the crap that he is getting on these message boards. He has never been a tactical genius. I can think of a few managers who would be better than Torre(Dierker, Weaver, Valentine(Don't want him, though)) at the tactical level.

I am more concerned about who Stein and co. would hire. Therefore, I am not calling for his head, I just want him to improve his in-game moves.

2005-08-15 09:53:35
18.   Jen
Does anyone know how much pull Girardi has with Torre? It seemed like when Zimmer was here, he was the one Joe turned to for in-game tactics. Does he turn to Girardi at all or is he making decisions for himself now?

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