Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
Bow Down to a Player That's Greater Than You
2005-08-08 04:54
by Alex Belth
2005-08-08 05:46:39
1.   KJC
Man, this is one long-ass twilight...
2005-08-08 05:53:58
2.   Alex Belth
In the rooting for greatness department, I've got all my eggs in hoping that Clemens continues to have a spectacular season. If he can end the year with an ERA under 2.00---I'm superstitious, I figure he's got to take a couple of beatings--that would just be remarkable.
2005-08-08 06:40:14
3.   Shaun P
I miss Andy Pettitte - my fav Yank from the "dynasty years" - and we could sure use him now! But because his departure has allowed us to witness Clemens's season for the ages, I'm (mostly) glad it worked out the way it did.

Speculation, sure, but if Clemens stays healthy and motivated - is 400 wins really out of the question? Imagine if he pitches until he's 47 or 48 - passing Walter Johnson in wins might be possible. Wow.

2005-08-08 08:21:04
4.   KJC
"Imagine if he pitches until he's 47 or 48"

Has Clemens learned to throw a knuckler? ;)

2005-08-08 09:29:34
5.   Alex Belth
One thing that has struck me over the past few years with Clemens is that nobody has linked him to steroids. At least not that I've heard of. I'm not saying that he has used them, I'm just saying that it is curious that a guy who has performed so well late in his career, who is significantly bigger than he was in his early twenties (an argument that never really convinced me of anything one way or the other, to be fair) has not received the same kind of skepticism that other stars have gotten.

Weird, right? Is it that Roger is a Great White Hope like Ryan, in his old age? Fans and writers used to love to paint him as the villian. No longer.

2005-08-08 09:40:02
6.   JohnnyC
Alex, ALL of my friends who are Red Sox fans believe the latter part of his career has been juiced. Now, some of this is sour grapes but...I think there's some truth to it. Chances are Clemens is no longer using whatever it was, steroids, HGH, etc. As opposed to other pitchers who are likely PED abusers, Clemens seems to have achieved a certain level with the PED and maintained it via insanely rigorous workouts sans PED. I will leave to it your informed imagination as to who are the pitchers who used PED and didn't workout incessantly. Check out anyone who's experienced recurring injuries not arm-related and whose physique is now less than, shall we say, Adonis-like.
2005-08-08 10:16:08
7.   Alex Belth
Hmm. Just find it interesting that nobody in the media has jumped all over this one.
2005-08-08 11:06:35
8.   dtrain
Well, I think the sports media tends to decide on one perception of things and then stick with that. In Clemens' case, the writers have been focusing on his infamous workout routine for years, so that becomes the easy explanation for his physique and his success, and no one bothers to question it any further.

I'm sure that all the usual suspect hitters like Bonds, Giambi, Sheff, etc., whether they are juicing or not, have similarly insane workout routines in order to maintain their hugeness, but it hasn't made for as good a story in the writers' eyes for whatever reason, so we never hear about them.

2005-08-08 11:07:01
9.   Dan M
From the way that people used to say how he was so keyed up for his starts, I always figured Roger to be an amphetamine user, not a steroids guy.
2005-08-08 11:37:06
10.   JohnnyC
Well, the amphetamine witch-hunt will soon be upon us, if the grumblings I've heard on ESPN and other places is any indication. Isn't there a lot of caffeine in green tea?
2005-08-08 13:09:13
11.   uburoisc
If I have to listen to one more congressional phony reminisce about when he put baseball cards in his spokes or how MLB steroid use is the result of no national health care, I'm going to start cheering on the steroid users. The whole thing is getting surreal and wildly irrational.

I was watching RC on ESPN the other night and my God his fastball moved! Drifting right up in the zone and out of reach; he had wicked stuff. If he cultivates better off-speed stuff, he could pitch another half-decade.

So did he juice; frankly, I feel like one of the few people in the country who doesn't much care; I'm pretty libertarian when it comes to drugs, and that includes steroids, HGH, and assorted PED's. If you can drop windowpane out there, and if you can actually play, fine by me. Steroids giveth, steroids taketh away.

2005-08-08 14:32:29
12.   Shaun P
I think dtrain is right. We've been hearing about Clemens's workout routine forever. Meanwhile, he's been so spectacular right from the start, and for so long, its hard to pinpoint when he might have started.

With the hitters, its easy to look at their home runs stats and say, "Wow, there's a big difference between here and here." Bonds, Palmeiro, Sosa, Giambi - they all fit that profile. Even McGwire does, to a point. Not so easy to do that with Clemens.

On an amphetamine witch-hunt, boy, that would make Joe Morgan's recent arguments fall apart, huh, seeing that "the players whom the game belongs to - Aaron, Mays, Robinson" etc all had more than enough greenies flowing through their blood, I'm sure. What a moron.

2005-08-08 19:34:14
13.   singledd
People thicken with age. Its natural. Ever see Johnny Carson in his 20's? BeanPole. My best friend was thin as a rail in his 20's. By 40, while still on the thin side, he had much more meat (all over) on his bones.

I saw a TV special which documented Clemens workout. SICK. 3-4 hours of non-stop, engineered, brutal exercise, 6 days/week.
I got sick watching it. When Petite (10 years his junior) started working out with Roger, he said initialy, it all but killed him.

What you accomplish physically is much more a product of condition then age. You don't think that Arnold, Stallone and any number of athletes at 50 can blow the socks off the average 35 year old?

Did Nolan Ryan do steroids?

Roger has 4 kids and an incredible legacy. For him to be doing 'roids this year would be stupid beyond my ability to express it.

Geez.... we're seeing steroid users bbehind every tree.

Anybody know the story behind El Duque (why we didn't sign him)? He was cheap enough. Murcer said the FO wanted our pitching to get younger (as they signed RJ and prayed Roger would be available at the break).

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