Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
Dis Muss Be De Place
2005-07-19 04:44
by Alex Belth
Note: The Bronx Banter blog has moved to

In a game that saw Alfonso Soriano Cadillac a double into a single--then hit a homer in his next at bat--and Derek Jeter stretch a single into a double, the Yankees out-bombed the Rangers last night in Arlington, 11-10. It wasn't pretty: Kevin Brown was knocked around, Bernie Williams made a critical two-run error, and Ruben Sierra injured his hamstring crossing first base in the eighth after his two-run single scored the game-winning run. Tanyon Sturtze and Mariano Rivera provided the relief the Bombers needed to hold off Texas. Jorge Posada hit a three-run dinger and blocked the plate nicely to nail Hank Blalock in the first. The Yanks have pitching problems, and defensive issues in center field, but after the Red Sox lost to the Devil Rays, they are alone in first place this morning.

Sierra will be placed on the disabled list today. Also, according to the Daily News:

The Yanks announced yesterday that [Chien-Ming]Wang has an inflammation and a strain of the right shoulder. The 25-year-old will take part in an exercise program for two weeks and then begin a throwing program in the hopes that the rehab work will allow him to return to the Bombers near the beginning of September.

If Wang doesn't respond, however, season-ending surgery "may be necessary," according to a statement from team doctor Stuart Hershon.

Lots of stuff to talk about today, but right now the Yankees are thriving in spite of their many flaws.

Comments (79)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2005-07-19 05:49:17
1.   Yanks in NH
I was not able to see the game last night, but I'm hearing that Williams made a big error in Center - can anybody fill me in on exactly what he did ... or didn't do?
2005-07-19 06:03:36
2.   jedi
Yanks in NH,

Ever see a little league game, where a youngster pops a lazy fly ball into shallow center and you see a kid running from CF yelling,"I got it! I got!" all cool and nonchalant like a big leaguer but you know deep deep deep down that kid doesnt have a chance in hell. Think of bernie's play like that...

Bernie, I love ya, but you got to put yourself in Chili Davis mode from now on. your CF days are over. Thanks for the memories.

2005-07-19 06:21:25
3.   Cliff Corcoran
NH, first you have to understand that the wind was a major factor in last night's game. It was blowing everything out to left. Jorge missed a pop up behind the plate earlier in the game because the wind blew it over to the wall on the third base side. Some of the big blasts were likely helped by the wind as well (Kevin Mench's shot springs to mind).

Bernie's error came in the bottom of the sixth inning. The Yanks came into the inning leading 9-6. Scott Proctor had recorded the final two outs of the fifth, but walked the first two men in the sixth. Torre called on Wayne Franklin, who got the left-handed Dellucci to ground into a double play, moving the lead runner to third with two outs. Franklin then walked Young to put runners on the corners and gave up an RBI single to Teixeira to make it 9-7, still runners on the corners.

The next man up was Hank Blalock, who got ahead 2-0, then lifted a lazy fly to shallow left center. Bernie and Matsui both came in for it, but Bernie, being the center fielder, called Matsui off. The problem was that the wind was blowing the ball toward left, away from Bernie, but straight to Matsui. Bernie called Matsui off and cut in front of him, but seeing Matsui out of the corner of his eye, slowed up just enough to have the ball tick off the end of his glove and roll away, past Matsui, allowing both runners (who were running with two outs) to score to put the Rangers up 10-9.

What was most painful about watching the replay was that Bernie almost took the ball out of Matsui's glove. It was a terribly play, but the wind was partially to blame. Bernie just had a bad night (he was the only Yankee starter without a hit). I wouldn't overreact to the play and call for his glove.

2005-07-19 06:23:01
4.   unpopster
During the first two months of this season, the Yanks were an erratic, inconsistant, Jeckle-and-Hyde group of overpaid underachievers. Questions arose as which team was the real '05 Yanks, the one that started off 11-19 or the one that ran off 10 wins in a row.

Well, our beloved Yankees are in sole posession of first place in mid July.

I think we have our answer!

2005-07-19 06:24:44
5.   Ryan
Not to be a dick or anything, but didn't that error cost the Yanks three runs?
2005-07-19 06:29:12
6.   Cliff Corcoran
Indeed, this team really has come together nicely despite the mess that's become of the pitching staff.

By the way, it deserves mentioning that Sturtze pitched 2 1/3 perfect innings last night (getting a much deserved win in the process) and needed just 25 pitches to do it.

Meanwhile, after the way Sierra's been hitting recently (.524/.565/.810 in July), it hurts to lose him, but the Yankees should take this opportunity to bring back Andy Phillips (.313/.377/.617 in Columbus) and give him Ruben's starts at DH.

2005-07-19 06:29:23
7.   Simone
Urrr, good win!? What an ugly game. The Yankees got lucky. So many thoughts:

1) Bernie's night in the field encapsulates the Yankees' season. First, he can't get to a ball that he should catch, then he makes a great catch, only to miss an easy fly ball. Bernie needs to concentrate better out there.

2) Ruben going down just as he was starting to hit is more bad luck. Now Cashman has to find a center fielder and a 4th outfielder.

3) If Kevin Brown would actually pitch like a ground ball pitcher, his outings would be much better, period.

4) If Wang can avoid surgery, then that is indeed good news.

5) Does anyone know what happened between Jeter and that fan?

Comment about the Red Sox/D'Rays game: Since when do home plate umpires reverse calls at 1st base? I've never seen that one before.

2005-07-19 06:30:31
8.   Cliff Corcoran
Sorry, the error made it 9-9 (two runs), but it should have been the third out. Blalock made it to second on the error and Soriano singled him home to make it 10-9. Three unearned runs resulted, but only two on the error itself.
2005-07-19 06:30:54
9.   mikeplugh
The Yankees are in a good position. The Sox don't get Schilling back as a starter for a while and the Orioles, regardless of AJ Burnett's status, are going to fade with there smoke and mirrors pitching staff.

The Yanks only need to do two subtle things to stay on top.

1. Get a player to man CF every day. The bat can be fact a guy who can lay down a decent bunt would be refreshing...but the glove has to be top notch.

2. Long relief is a key ingredient given our weekly throw away starter...or two. They have Ramiro Mendoza getting tuned up in Tampa, if anyone thinks he's the answer, but they may need to get a top long reliever with Womack.

I think we are going to be solid with Mussina, Johnson, and Leiter. Leiter had a 3.4ish ERA with the Mets the last 7 years and it's unlikely that he is as bad as he pitched for the Marlins that quickly. I liken him to an aging David Cone who gutted out quality start after quality start. The question marks that we can't solve with a roster move or trade are Pavano and Brown. I predict that Brown will suck and the fans will demand his head. Pavano will put up a 4.50 - 5.00 ERA the rest of the way and the Yanks will split his games.

2005-07-19 06:33:54
10.   tocho
Man, the Yanks are winning, they are in first place of their division since opening day, during the past 3 weeks have evidenced character and finally look like a team, A-Rod, Matsui, Sheff and Giambi are killing the ball, Jeter and Cano are setting the table, and Posada and Bernie bring some value on any given night; the 3-man bullpen is the best in the majors, and we are surviving a strech without a starting rotation, but all you guys focus on is a wind-blown error by Bernie that DID NOT cost us the game.

This is the best they have played this season guys, just enjoy it. Oh, and by the way, the cherry on the top, the BoSox are losing quite a bit.

2005-07-19 06:34:11
11.   mikeplugh
To my last occurs to me that Andy Phillips and Bubba Crosby could be the answers the Yanks need in the lineup. Phillips is Major League ready and deserves a shot. Crosby has a very good glove, legs, and can bunt when he has to....

The long relief and the ? mark starters are going to haunt us.

2005-07-19 06:39:01
12.   Cliff Corcoran
Tocho, I'm enjoying it like crazy, I was just answering Yanks in NH's question since he missed the play.

And you're exactly right about Bubba and Andy. Bubba's already here. Hopefully Andy will be called-up today.

2005-07-19 06:41:23
13.   mikeplugh
Phillips could explode a la Shane Spencer. I'd love to see that down the stretch.
2005-07-19 06:42:42
14.   mikeplugh
Phillips could explode a la Shane Spencer. I'd love to see that down the stretch.
2005-07-19 06:43:13
15.   mikeplugh
Phillips could explode a la Shane Spencer. I'd love to see that down the stretch.
2005-07-19 06:44:16
16.   mikeplugh
sorry...button got stuck on me
2005-07-19 06:49:26
17.   Murray
This season in the AL East is turning into the NL East in 1973.
2005-07-19 06:52:08
18.   mikeplugh
BTW....I live in Japan now and I've been keeping a close eye on Spencer and former/current Red Sox player Gabe Kapler.

For the Osaka Hanshin Tigers, Spencer is batting .259 with 6 home runs, a .324 OBP, and a .411 SLG. Disappointing.

Kapler got run out of town in Tokyo as he couldn't even crack the everyday lineup for the Giants. I guess he went back home and the Sox took him back.

2005-07-19 06:59:11
19.   tocho
Just making sure Cliff.

This is a great time to be a Yankee fan, they have a lot of issues right now but are weathering this storm with great character and some grinding wins. This is all you ask for in a team. I know that having the talent that they have helps but they still had to go out there and perform, just look at the first few weeks, they had their complete rotation, bullpen, line-up, etc but did not come through.

I don't think its a matter of a one game or one week turning point, its just that these guys came together little-by-little, starting to trust each other and play. I believe for all the critism pointed at Torre for his in-game managing (which is very bad sometimes) he has a much bigger perspective than many managers in the MLB and that helps managing crisis and forming bonds among players.

I'm sure they will have at least one more bad strech this season but I think the groundwork for a run at their 27th. championship has been laid during these 3 months.

2005-07-19 07:00:30
20.   Dan M
unpopster, I wouldn't get so excited. Yanks will likely lose a game in Texas, and it's unlikely Boston will lose again to TB, so they'll be back in 2nd by the weekend. In other words, let's be excited by the fact that they're winning, not that they have a slight lead in the division this morning.
2005-07-19 07:00:31
21.   Tommy Boy
Sometimes you have to let guys play and not keep looking over thier shoulder...a lot of people were ready to send Cano packing after his slow start hitting. Bubba and Bernie split time - 5 games to 2 and stick with it for at least 6 weeks. Joe is a lot smarter than me or I would be coaching higher than Little League, but it does work with kids.
2005-07-19 07:01:43
22.   mikeplugh
On the Japan front, the Yanks should be actively scouting the Seibu Lions' Matsuzaka. They won the Japan Series last year with him as their ace. He's a pretty good 3rd starter on the Yanks.

The best pitcher over here is the newly formed Rakuten Golden Eagles' Iwakuma. If the Yanks can pull off a signing in 3 or 4 years when he's freed up, we'll have reason to cheer.

The Giants' Uehara wants to come to the States but he stinks. If the Yanks look at him they're crazy.

Hanshin's Iigawa is good but has become a bit streaky this year. He also wants to come to the States. Question mark.

The only position player the Yanks should consider if he wants to come is Hanshin's Akahoshi. He's a leadoff hitting CF with speed and a great glove. He hits .300+ with a .400+ OBP and right now he has 39 SB.

2005-07-19 07:03:21
23.   Simone
BTW, I'm happy that Jorge is starting to hit everything in sight. The line up is always more powerful when he is contributing.
2005-07-19 07:26:29
24.   Bob B
Perhaps we should start to refer to the Yankee pitching staff as the Over the Hill Gang..........Johnson, Brown, Moose and Leiter bring Championship #27 back to New York..........Dreaming, Right?
2005-07-19 07:42:10
25.   Shaun P
If this rumor from the Times is true (, please let Cashman come to his senses - its better to run Bernie out there everyday than Endy Chavez!

I actually think the Yanks have the solution already in Crosby, but no one in the press ever mentions him.

2005-07-19 07:42:57
26.   Schteeve
I don't think a top notch glove man in CF is a desperate need for the Yankees. It's all about pitching right now. A little more consistency out of the rotation, and one more quality arm in the pen and I think they have a fighting chance.

But as much as I'm enjoying the gutty play of this team, is it really realistic to think that they're going to keep putting up 6+ runs every night? Pitching Pitching Pitching.

2005-07-19 08:04:23
27.   Mick S
I was just looking at some of the minor leaguers, but I don't find too much information. Kevin Thompson was hitting pretty well in AA, but hasn't too well in AAA yet. Why does no one mention his name instead of Bubba Crosby? Also, Mitch Jones has great stats in AAA. Why does everyone talk about Andy Philips over Jones? Sorry for these questions as I really don't know much about players down on the farm yet.
2005-07-19 08:22:04
28.   strangeluck
Mick, Phillips makes for a better option than Jones because he's hitting better (.313/.377/.617 vs. .311/.372/.584), and is far more valuable defensively by being able to play first, second, and third base, as well as left field (and I imagine he could probably handle right if needed).

You're right, though, about Thompson, who couldn't hit any worse than Crosby and is much better defensively and on the basepaths. Kevin Reese would also be a better choice than Crosby, since he's hitting a lot better, and can match Bubba in the field.

2005-07-19 08:42:32
29.   ChrisS
A couple of things, I think the game last night is indeed representative of the Yankees' season: winning ugly (this is certainly not 1998), starting pitching is scattershot, offense from guys that consistently hit, Cano doesn't know how to take a walk, and Rivera slams the door.

The starting pitching staff is not good, Kevin Brown is done - he was done two years ago. I'd be happy if we still had Jeff Weaver, he at least pitches every 5th day and his ERA is two runs lower than Brown's.

I think this is a fine collection of offenseive talent, but the pitching staff, even with Pavano & Wright, is shaky at best and built on fading veterans and one year wonders. Overall, first place right now is kinda by default because the top three teams in the AL east all have their starting pitching problems and no one is running away with it. Only KC and Tampa have allowed more runs than the Yankees this year in the AL.

For AAA, Andy Phillips is a career minor leaguer and so is Bubba Crosby; neither one is going to make much of a difference, especially since neither one is a starting pitcher. They're both old for the league.

I think that, overall, this is just another Yankee team treading water, Cashman makes a lot of splashy moves but they don't really do anything to improve the team's position. He (and really Steinbrenner) pay too much (in terms of both talent traded and cash) for replaceable parts and focus too much on the good (Tony Womack hit .300 last year!), without understanding the negatives (that wasn't representative of Tony's ability as we know now and by looking at his historical numbers). It'll be a good, but sloppy, pennant race in the fall, hopefully between three teams, which could make for some exciting baseball.

2005-07-19 09:04:09
30.   Cliff Corcoran
Phillips is preferable to Jones because he's got a much better track record and is only six months older.

Career minor league numbers:
Phillips: .296/.366/.509
Jones: .242/.332/.478

Phillips: .318/.388/.569 at AAA
Jones: .246/.334/.548 at AA

Add in what Strangeluck said above.

I don't know much about Kevin Reese's ability to play center, but if he can play it like Bubba, the Yanks are fools not to prefer Reese, who's clearly superior at the plate. Thompson still has to prove he can hit in Columbus before I'll pay him much attention.

2005-07-19 09:45:37
31.   Simone
mikeplugh, I'm enjoying your scouting reports from Japan. Keep them up. Akahoshi sounds like exactly who the Yankees need in center for next season. Is Jean Afterman still the Yankees' international specialist?
2005-07-19 09:53:21
32.   Simone
"I think that, overall, this is just another Yankee team treading water, ..."

ChrisS, I feel the same way. Getting a solid centerfielder would help, but the starting rotation and bullpen (excluding Mo and sometimes Tanyon and Gordon) are simply disasterous. It is a lot to ask this offense to overcome this kind of pitching day in and day out.

Can the Yankees make the playoffs? Anything can happen, I suppose. It does help that Schilling isn't starting for the Red Sox and the Os are floundering.

2005-07-19 10:11:47
33.   Rich
Thompson can play CF. That is the Yankees' position of greatest need. Give him a shot.
2005-07-19 11:02:02
34.   illinination
Leiter vs. Brown. Who is more washed up?
2005-07-19 11:20:29
35.   JohnnyC
I'm hoping the answer is Schilling.
2005-07-19 11:48:30
36.   kdenver
More on Japanese players - see that the W. Sox released Shingo Takatsu today to make room for el Duque.

Maybe he can help in the pen to ease workload on Sturtze and Gordon? While he's been pretty bad this yr, he throws upper 90's, was v. good last yr and career saves leader in japan prior to that, + he could benefit with Matsui around.

2005-07-19 11:51:34
37.   Alvaro Espinoza
Talk of position player help is useless. Ken Griffey for a bag of balls will solve nothing for the '05 Yanks. The glaring necessity is pitching: w/o any added significant help on the mound, the off season free agent acquisitions must shine in a big way for the next 2+ months if this team is to be a factor.
2005-07-19 12:05:38
38.   uburoisc
I agree that the real problem is pitching. The D is sloppy, but the pitching is awful. I think some arrangements with Crosby and Phillips helping Bernie out could get the team by defensively, but pitching is the real problem and I don't see much help out there. Even if George dropped a cashload on Griffey, he'd still be running all over the OF chasing line drives. Brown has to go; if he is there if the Yanks make the playoffs, he is going to get absolutely clobbered.
2005-07-19 12:14:49
39.   sabernar
Griffey hasn't had a Rate of over 100 in over 5 (is it 6?) seasons. That would put him decidedly below average, and, scarily, in Bernie Williams Rate neighborhood.

Anyway, the Reds would have to pick up most of his contract, considering he's supposed to get paid $6M/yr until 2015 or sometime AFTER his contract ends.

2005-07-19 12:56:02
40.   Cliff Corcoran
Phillips is versital on D, but not particularly rangy, and he can't play CF.

Pitching is indeed the problem, so much so that the Yankees need Brown the rest of the way. You can't wish him away. Just hope that if the Yanks manage to make the postseason he'll be the fifth starter and can be left off the postseason roster.

The Yanks can only drop Brown if two of the following happen after Pavano returns (assuming he will return without lingering effects): Wang recovers, Leiter is legitimately rejuvinated, or Wright returns to health and last year's effectiveness. Very long odds.

2005-07-19 13:27:04
41.   Rich
M.Kay just said that Brown "tweaked" his back last night, and may not be able to make his next start in Anaheim.
2005-07-19 13:34:15
42.   JohnnyC
I hope you realize that Norihiro Akahoshi stands 5'6" tall and has hit 2 home runs in his 5 years in the Pacific League. He is a converted infielder (read not a strong arm) and although a prolific base-stealer not an OBP guy. He will also be 30 years old next April. He's another Kaz Matsui except smaller, weaker, and probably slower.
2005-07-19 14:47:30
43.   Simone
LOL! Maybe Akahoshi isn't what the Yankees need.

I'm actually excited about tonight's game. I don't get to see it so maybe that is why.

2005-07-19 16:00:45
44.   Marcus
The Yankees recalled Andy Phillips from Columbus, and Sierra is on the 15 day DL. Felix Rodriquez is back in action as well.

Meanwhile, Boston DFA'd Alan Embree and says the Red Sox don't want him going to the Yankees. Me neither! The Yankees are doing just fine with the two ineffective lefty relievers they've got.

2005-07-19 16:58:03
45.   mikeplugh
The criticism of Akahoshi is correct, but I think overstated. He won't hit HRs, but who needs that on the Yanks? Here are his stats:

His OBP is around .370, and he hits .300. He steals bases and if you project his 140 game season out to MLB he'd hover near 200 hits. He's not the Money Ball type, but if you like a poor man's Ichiro that's what you'd get. He'd come over and hit near .300 with a slap style approach, run down balls in the spacious Yankee Stadium CF, and steal 60+ bases.

He won't hit home runs, throw guys out at the plate, or walk a lot. He won't strike out either because he puts the ball in play.

I'm not saying the Yanks should run out there and get him, or break the bank to do so, but he's worth a look. I don't think he's available anyway. I think he just re-upped with Hanshin.

2005-07-19 17:35:30
46.   singledd
Hey Yanks in NH!!
I'm a Yanks Fan in (Weare) NH.
Where are you??

About Bernie...
It was an easy play. Bernie was at the ball in plenty of time, reached to his right, and the ball hit of the top edge of his glove.

It was a mind fart.... little physical ability was needed. HOWEVER.. Matsui was also coming on as the ball was in short Left/Center. As Opposed to centering the ball in his body, Bernie stopped short of the ball and reached right. Looked clumbsy. I think he was afraid that Matsui would crash into him, so he was not in good position, and he may have glanced to see where Matsui was, taking his eye of the ball for a second.

I'm not excusing him, but it was an easy catch. The problem was not knees, legs or shoulders. He just blew it, I think, because he was worried about Matsui

2005-07-19 19:42:25
47.   Rich
Torre's obsession with Franklin is a joke.
2005-07-19 19:48:19
48.   Zack
I have the game on Yahoo's Game Channel. Is Torre really using franklin in the 8th, and allowing him to pitch after allowing two singles?

Now I see he just got a double play, but still, in a one run game, does he realize what he is doing??

2005-07-19 19:48:24
49.   Rich
Don't anyone tell me that Torre is a good manager, because he isn't.
2005-07-19 19:49:30
50.   mikeplugh
I like Joe, but he f^&*%ed us royally with Franklin. WHY???!! WHY???!!!!!

He dodged a bullet with the double play and then lets him pitch against Blaylock????!!! Why not realize he sucks and bring in Gordon for 1 out?

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2005-07-19 19:49:39
51.   JeremyM
Didn't Groom have some success in big spots earlier? His ERA is fairly high but it seems like a lot of that came in blowouts, I could be wrong. Big gift double play, maybe he can get out of this mess.

Guess not.

2005-07-19 19:50:50
52.   Zack
Oh, and now I see a two run homer. Wow, and I thought Torre's use of Stanton earlier was bad, but this has to be one of the single worst managing moves I can remember
2005-07-19 19:51:54
53.   mikeplugh
Bonehead move of the year so far. Like the idiotic decision to allow Weaver pitch in extra innings in a playoff game.
2005-07-19 19:51:59
54.   tocho
talk about pushing your luck, the DP was enough to have a very nice job, but noooo, we have to go farther and push our luck, which is what we do with these incompetent pitchers....

Oh, by the way, we'll come back in the 9th. mark my words

2005-07-19 19:52:52
55.   Rich
Torre is a fraud. The payroll advantage and the talent has covered up his stupidity for too long.
2005-07-19 19:54:31
56.   uburoisc
I just tune in to MLB audio and click on ESPN gamecast and see that Moose must have pitched a hell of a game and then I see Franklin's face with the Giants hat on and I think, "What the hell is he doing in the game?" Not two seconds later I hear Blalock hit his HR. Joe, you idiot.
2005-07-19 19:56:25
57.   Zack
Joe better have some really good excuse, like, Gordon's arm fell off, or, Franklin has certain photos of me I'd rather not see come to light...
2005-07-19 20:07:32
58.   Rich
Thanks Joe.
2005-07-19 20:07:49
59.   mikeplugh
Figures. Torre is a jackass. Franklin has no business in a one run game. Boston in 1st. Nice while it lasted.
2005-07-19 20:09:48
60.   mikeplugh
Nice way to lead into an Aaron Small start. Way to go Joe. Save your top late inning guys in a one run game so they're available for tomorrow's 27-3 game.
2005-07-19 20:13:01
61.   mikeplugh
On an unrelated note....rumors flying that the Yanks may be after the recently traded Eric Byrnes. I LOVE that guy. Captain America. He would be perfect....exactly what we've been missing with our cast of dutiful soldiers....a soldier that runs until his legs fall off and leaves his guts spilled all over the field to get a win. I think they would likely package to get Chacon in that deal.

Don't know how that would help when Joe insists on using waste of space pitchers late in one run games against the MLB's top HR team, but could be good.

2005-07-19 20:13:37
62.   Rich
The best move the Yankees can make before the trading deadline would be to fire Torre and Mel.
2005-07-19 20:14:55
63.   Simone
Eh. Any time your offense gets shut down by Chan Ho Park, you deserve to lose like a fool and the Yankees did.

I know that pointing this out won't matter, but Joe probably left Franklin in against Blalock because Blalock struggles to hit lefties and slays righties. This is exactly why the Yankees should not have DFA Stanton who was actually good loogy.

2005-07-19 20:14:55
64.   mikeplugh
I hope Girardi doesn't go to FLA because he's been my dream Yankee manager for 5 or 6 years and he's soooooooo close....
2005-07-19 20:16:42
65.   mikeplugh
BS Simone. Gordon can get ONE out. You dodged the bullet on the DP ball he got and you should have read the writing on the wall.

Those one run games are exactly the kind of games you need to win to hold 1st place. Tomorrow's Aaron Small start is a throw away and you can throw Franklin to the wolves when that game is 15-1.

2005-07-19 20:19:07
66.   Rich
Simone, give me a break. He uses Gordon in blowouts. Why couldn't he get four outs tonight, especially with Small starting tomorrow?

Newsflash: Any time you score more runs than the other team you deserve to win.

The way some people defend Torre is mind blowing.

2005-07-19 20:22:13
67.   Simone
Well, I did say that it didn't matter.
2005-07-19 20:25:30
68.   Rich
Quality matters. There was no excuse to use Franklin over Gordon. None.
2005-07-19 20:27:17
69.   Simone
Wanted to add: Considering how Joe is ripped apart day after day in this blog and in the comments whether the Yankees win or lose, it simply can't be mind blowing when the one or two people point out that Joe has reasons for his decisions even when they don't work out.
2005-07-19 20:37:47
70.   Rich
What reason could he possibly have for using Wayne Franlin in a one run game with Tom Gordon available? It's not like he never uses Gordon for four outs, even with big leads.
2005-07-19 20:40:02
71.   mikeplugh
I am a Joe Torre fan. I can't count myself among those who want Joe out. I think he is as good as 80% of the managers out there, at least.

A handful of guys have shown that they can win with super low payrolls and that stands out to me.

Joe is in a pinch with the trash they've stocked in our starting rotation and bullpen, so he's handcuffed....BUT, today he blew it big time. He has used scrap heap pitchers in too many important situations over the last few years and it bugs me.

2005-07-19 20:42:20
72.   mikeplugh
Go Gordon for ONE out!!! You can go with Proctor in the 9th to start things out, with no one on base, with Rivera as a safety net, but you had a runner on 3rd and barely scraped out of a HUGE jam with a scrub. Count your blessings, go to Gordon for out #3 and then start from scratch in the 9th. Baseball 101.
2005-07-19 20:51:15
73.   Chucksax
Come on, folks, show a LITTLE consistency. I mean, day after day, you rip into Torre for over-using Gordon, Sturze & Rivera. Now, tonight, when all three pitchers have been used & aren't available, you rip into Torre for using the other pitchers! If Gordon had been used tonight, we would have heard, "Why did Joe use Gordon tonight? He's going to blow his arm out!"

At some point, we need to try using some of the other pitchers. Wayne Franklin was brought in to audition for the LOOGY job, and he's blown it twice in the last two outings. This might be a large enough sample size to allow Colter Bean his attempt to pitch in the show.

2005-07-19 20:51:26
74.   JohnnyC
Considering that tonight was a Mussina of two games every 5 games right now that are MUST WIN games...and that you had a lead going into the last two innings, a lead that protected would have won the series and made tomorrow's game a luxury and not a must win, couldn't Torre have gotten 6 outs from a combination of Rodriguez, Proctor, Franklin, and Groom? This is something Tony LaRussa does every effing night of the week, something Bobby Cox resorts to if he has to, etc. Why does Torre continue to expose Yankees roster weaknesses for the sake of losing games? Why did Torre once start Enrique Wilson in rightfield? Because he...not George...continues to only want to manage a high payroll team filled with All-Stars he can push-button all the way to October. I'm just sick of people who can't see this. It's as plain as the dumbfounded look on his face when Blaylock crushed Franklin's piss-poor excuse for a breaking pitch (which is what Stottlemyre wanted him to throw, regardless of whether Franklin could locate it or Blaylock could catch up to it). Rich's point is well-taken. With Small pitching tomorrow, was Torre expecting to protect a one run lead in the late innings with a well-rested Tom Gordon and Tanyon Sturtze? That's laughable on the face of it.
2005-07-19 21:00:13
75.   JohnnyC
"I mean, day after day, you rip into Torre for over-using Gordon, Sturze & Rivera." Yes, because he pitches them when he has 4 or 5 run leads and he pitches them for 2+ innings and on 3+ consecutive days. However, that was not the case tonight. As I just wrote, leaving Gordon to the 9th to close, Torre still had the ability to match up for six outs using 4 pitchers, including two lefties. All he had to do was THINK for once...THINK about the match ups. Do some extra walking. Look like you're on top of the game instead of seemingly inert and lifeless in the face of inevitable doom...FIGHT to win the game. chucksax, it's Torre who's inconsistent, not we who can't take his managing anymore.
2005-07-19 21:40:49
76.   mikeplugh
Look....don't fault him for putting Franklin in at the start of the 8th. You know it's a gamble, but with no one on base the worst that could happen is a game tying homer. As soon as he started to choke up and put guys on, you have to yank him for one of your studs....overused or not.

Especially after Franklin stayed in an lucked into a DP, you have to thank God and get ONE out with Gordon. He may only need to throw 1 pitch.

As I said, you could then start your gamble again in the 9th with Proctor and if anyone gets on you put Rivera in.....tomorrow's probably a wash anyway.

It's smart to try to save your top guys if you can gamble during the middle of the season, but the gamble can only go so far when the series hasn't been decided and you are only separated in the standings by a half game with your rival having won. You have to jump to your top guy at the 1st sign of implosion.

2005-07-19 22:06:19
77.   JeremyM
Look, I'm a Torre fan in a lot of ways, and I guess you don't want to hang your pitcher out to dry, but what game was he watching: "It wasn't a bad outing for Franklin, but it was a bad pitch," Torre said. "He'd gotten three ground balls in a row, but he left a breaking ball up."

Two of those ground balls were base hits and one was a miraculous double play, really, turned on a hitter swinging on a 3-0 count. How was it not a bad outing?

2005-07-19 22:50:58
78.   mikeplugh
He's gotta spin it to avoid getting lynched in the press. He has enough capital with his 4 titles to not get called too much on the BS.

The fact is, he has to win tomorrow or people will really remember that stupid decision. If the Yanks can hit 4 or 5 HRs tomorrow people will forget all about it until Franklin does it again.

2005-07-19 23:57:06
79.   TracedOut
The two singles weren't bad. They were quick groundballs, not much anyone can do. However, in this situation, with two runners on and none out, Torre certainly needed a strikeout pitcher up there, at least warming up. And, as Franklin was obviously wild to Teixeira, it is inexcusable to leave him, in such a crucial situation.

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