There's been enough calamity the last few offseasons without losing the GM too.

Cashman's fine by me, but it's not like the organization would crumble if he bolted. It's a baseball executive's mantra: Everyone's replaceable.

i think Mo will announce whether he's having surgery later also...

If they think they are going to get the same Brian Cashman that has proven that he can't evaluate pitching, they should seriously consider their options. I don't want to see Brad Penny or Oliver Perez or AJ Burnett on this team.

Though, at a very low price, for a one year deal, Oliver Perez as a fifth starter option would be a good move - the upside is there - but Perez will never settle for a one year deal at a low price.

I think Cash returns - he's not going to uproot his family - and I'll be happy when he announces it.

NNo Oliver Perez. No signing pitchers to be "fourth or fifth starters" When you sign a player for the express intent of being mediocre, you run the very real possibility of not even reaching those lofty standards. See Jaret Wright.

If you decide that you're willing to let the fifth starter be a bad, find someone in the organization. Don't acquire someone just to be bad. Its not worth the paperwork.

alright, replace "i think", with that would be kinda cool if that jerk wanted out.

7 No Oliver Perez. No signing pitchers to be "fourth or fifth starters" When you sign a player for the express intent of being mediocre, you run the very real possibility of not even reaching those lofty standards. See Jaret Wright.

Roger that. I'm OK gambling if the upside is great and there are sound contingencies (exceedingly rare as that is), but like you say, "Even when he's healthy, he's still frigin Carl Pavano". The corollary is that you should never put yourself in the position where you have so little depth as to make signing Carlos Silva anything more than a quick and easy way to dispose of excess currency. Or: if Sidney Ponson is amongst your top 6 or 7 starters, think about building for the future. (I would argue this year that Ponson was like our #10 starter, but the principle remains.)

I agree that CC Sabathia should be the only name on the list.

Hughes, Chamberlain & Kennedy blow through the minors in 07, and they get a chance to start in 08, the 3 of them suffer injury or ineffectiveness.

Kevin Brown, Randy Johnson, Jeff Weaver, Javy Vazquez, among others string together several seasons where they've shown they can pitch successfully at the ML level at the time of their acquisitions. Injury and ineffectiveness hamper their campaigns.

Durable Mike Mussina suffers several injuries during the 2004-2005 campaigns that limit his effectiveness.

Bargain basement finds such as Chacon, Aaron Small, Rasner, Bruney, Veras, Edwar Ramirez, etc, etc, have made contributions at the ML level.

AFAICT, it looks like Cashman has been burned with veterans, with rookies, with journeymen.

Looks to me he's middle of the pack when it comes to evaluating pitchers. Dave Dombowski was a genius in 2006 when the Tigers led the AL in pitching. With practically the same cast, the Tigers finished 12th in the league in 2008. So, what happened? Did Dowmboski forget how to evaluate pitching?

Whether Cashman stays or goes it doesn't matter, life goes on. But, like with Torre & Showalter, if he's let go I'd like to hear a good reason for letting him go.

Mo is having surgery on Oct. 6th

girardi doesn't sound hopeful about Moose coming back. damnit, i really want him to : (

sounds like pettitte will be in uni at the new stadium...

I also hope Cashman returns. If he doesn't, it will mean the Yankees manager and GM both left, as opposed to being fired. It aint easy doing those jobs in NY, so the Yankees had better due a careful and thorough search for a new GM...and oh yeah, they better do it quickly.

1) Sabathia's workload scares me because we're gonna offer him a LOOOOONG deal.
2) A.J. Burnett - When he's good...he's not even that good.
3) Ben Sheets is an insurance companies second worst nightmare. (Pavano is first.)
4) Perez? Get real.

I also think that the pitching is the second thing on this team that needs fixing.

Assume Abreu and Giambi are gone.

Posada - TWO years removed from his monster 2007 and who knows how well he bounces back from surgery?
1B - Your options are Tex, or Matsui, Damon, Jeter or any other Yankee over 30.
2B - Who the hell knows what you get from Cano, let's just say I'm not counting on much.
3B - Even year A-Rod, no worries there.
SS - Another year older Jeter. Which is ok, but you know...it's ok.
CF - Melky? Gardner? Christian? Damon? Cripes.
LF - Matsui another creaky ass 3o something, and who knows how he bounces back from surgery?
RF - Nady. Let's start praying now that this season was more than a fluke.
DH - Matsui or Damon?

If that doesn't make your blood run cold for next season, I don't know what will.

They HAVE to get Tex, and they HAVE to get another .850 OPSer.

If not, I don't think Sabathia matters at all.

Also, if Cashman is a middle of the pack GM who makes all the same mistakes as the other GMs, why do we care if he goes?

8 I think CC will definitely be the one Cashman goes after. If he doesn't sign CC, though, I think Burnett's almost a sure thing. For that matter, if they get Sbathia but not Teixeira, the same might happen.

(not that I would wish that on her per se, but it WOULD be kinda cool)

Its not enough to scare me off him. If that were to happen, we'd cross that bridge when we come to it.

If you thought I was annoying ranting about how stupid the management of this team was for trying to count on Pavano, just wait until AJ pitches in 19 games next year.

I don't know what to think about Sabathia. I know that Yankees fans are gun shy about long term deals because of the burn felt from Wright, Pavano, and Igawa. But these starters were never expected to be more than mediocre. Sabathia is an elite starter, and one who can eat a ton of innings on an otherwise young staff next year; the risk of injury is an acceptable one in this case, IMO.

In short, I agree with 18 . I expect Sabathia and his giant... salary. This pretty much fills the rotation nicely: Sabathia/Wang/Joba/Hughes/#5. It's the offense I'm really worried about. There's the potential for having weak hitters at multiple key offensive positions (LF, RF, 1B), and that's a problem. Plus, what about Posada?

Steve Karsay was signed to a 4 year deal; leading up to signing that contract he posted the following ERA+ (G,IP)

1999: 169 (50,78)
2000: 131 (72,76)
2001: 190 (74,88)
~~~
2002: 136 (78,88)

Don't think anyone saw him going on the shelf in 2003, and then lasting as long as he did.

My plan:

1) Sign Tex, waive goodbye to Giambi.
2) Sign CC. Risk? Yes. So be it.
3) Offer Abreu arbitration. If he accepts, fine. Platoon him with Nady in RF. If he bails, fine, take the picks and start looking around for a platoon parter for Nady.
4) Resign Moose and/or Pettitte. This one's hard to figure, because both will toy with retirement. I'm currently leaning toward trying to bring them both back for short term deals.
5) Pick up Marte's option.
6) Look around for a CF who can hit lefties a bit. If you find one, grab him and platoon him with Melky or Gardner. And hope like hell Austin Jackson continues to develop nicely.
7) Call Tony Soprano and have Pavano whacked.
8) Plan on using Chamberlain and Hughes as tandem starters to limit their innings. JobaPhil!

i am pretty sure that he is a fan of money, though.

There are deals to be made, but for crying out loud, the season ended yesterday!

Look at me. I've never been the same since Gary Sheffield left.

But pitching is irrelevant. With a patchwork staff, the Yanks allowed 727 runs. I could easily see that number falling to 700, without adding any free agent pitchers (except Moose/Andy). There is upside in the staff.

The problem is the offense. Too many guys are too old and trending down; there is little to no upside there. Tex has GOT to be free agent priority # 1. Then try for CC. If he signs elsewhere, oh well, but don't let Tex get away.

As for Igawa, I remember scouting reports that projected him as a long man. We then went and paid 45 mil for that honor. That's not a risk, that's stupid.

And you'll never convince me that signing Hawkins was a good idea because we "only" paid 3.5 mil. Just going through a cursory look at his gamelog, I found four games where this "low risk" signing pitched poorly in a loss in April. We signed a mediocre pitcher because he was coming off a good year and we decided this was the real deal, and it played a huge part in bringing this team where it is right now.

30 Its not enough to stop us from signing him, if it even exists at all.

40 Injury history scares away the man that signed and kept Carl Pavano?

As for Igawa
http://tinyurl.com/4o47v3
"Igawa, 27, figures to fit at the back end of a rotation that includes Chien-Ming Wang, Mike Mussina and Andy Pettitte."

Given Igawa's accomplishments in Japan, I doubt the Yanks were looking to have him as a long man. IIRC, I've seen reports say he's anywhere from a 3-5.

Some stuff from WasWatching
http://tinyurl.com/3pkhrd
http://tinyurl.com/3z68kz
http://tinyurl.com/526lgn

And a saberscouting entry
http://tinyurl.com/4sl34d

Hawkins was signed to replace Vizcaino. Viz wanted two years, Hawkins took one.

I don't know, it seems that if that were the case, Cashman would've traded him already. Of course, I have nothing to go on other than a gut feeling from the trades of RJ, Wright & Womack, 3 players that the Tampa faction have been accused of signing.

43 In a vacuum, starting Gardner in CF and forgetting about it probably makes sense. But you're giving up a lot of offense by committing to a speed-only player like Gardner. Where are those extra 200 runs coming from that separate the 2007 and 2008 Yankees? An aging Matsui/Damon/Abreu?

46 Yeah I didn't see enough good things from Marte to warrant even an arbitration offer. The risk that he accepts is too great. I'm fine with a rotating bullpen full of kids. Of course, if Mo's surgery/recovery goes badly, watch out...

That offseason, the Yankees needed starting pitching badly, and the options were not great. I thought it was a bad move at the time, but they needed someone.

am i making this up? would his defense + speed account for (some/most of) the dip at the plate?

just curious.

Pedro, Matt Clement & Derek Lowe among others were available. Duque was still having shoulder trouble, I think.

Had the Yanks not made any moves, they would've gone into 2005 with at minumum a rotation of Vazquez, Mussina, Brown & Halsey.

You can keeping repeating that Vizcaino wanted two years all you want. A good GM says no to Hawkins and Vizcaino. We needed a mediocre short relief pitcher that allows an assload of baserunners?

Did you give me a link comparing Kei Igawa to Kaz Ishii? In that Ishii post, BTW is a link saying the Yankees were cool to Igawa because they saw him as a back end guy.

I know it's not going to happen, just throwing it out there.

"In his conference call with reporters yesterday, Farnsworth was asked how he knew he would be able to adapt to the intense environment of New York. He answered candidly.

"I really don't know," Farnsworth said. "That's another reason why I wanted to come to New York and really test how good I really am. I think I did good enough last year to be able to pitch anywhere.""

http://tinyurl.com/dba8b
"In making the move to the Yankees, Farnsworth, who played at Milton High School in Atlanta, rejected the Braves' offer to remain as their closer, the role in which he finished the 2005 season. Instead, he will serve as setup man to Yankees' closer Mariano Rivera, and replace Tom Gordon in that role."

Farnsworth's FanGraphs page, for WPA stats;
http://tinyurl.com/3updw2

Viz did a competent job in 2007, Hawkins was signed to do the same in 2008. Neither player was signed to be a game changer. Neither pitcher is the kind to build a bullpen around. Cheap innings eaters, nothing more, nothing less. By definition, a middle reliever is mediocre; not good enough to start, not good enough to close a game.

As for Igawa, like I said, he was signed to fill out the rotation. Given the numbers he posted in Japan and the adjustment, he could've been anywhere from a 3-5. He definitely wasn't counted on to be an ace.

I'm just not in the mood to the Yanks get in a bidding war over a couple of players that don't appear to be all that interested in coming here. I may be liberal, but I'm preaching convservative here.

College hitter with no power in the minors, lotsa SBs and a fair amount of walks? Gardner's not much more than that, if anything. And if he surprises me and turns out a .750 OPS with 50 SBs, I wouldn't complain, but I'd never put money on that happening. Not even a dollar.

18 "... Nady - Let's start praying now that this season was more than a fluke."

And my season-ending Nady post. His first half was the fluke. His half season with Yankees almost perfectly replicated his career numbers: 14BB/48K, .268/.320/.474, 108 OPS+ as a Yankee; 143BB/443K, .280/.335/.458, 108 OPS+ for his career.

He's an average defender at best that strikes out 4 times as many times as he walks and doesn't hit for the kind of power that makes up for a middling OBP. I don't see him solving any problems with a weak offense next season.

Frankly, I'm not sure what to do with this team. I'd like to hold onto Phil, Joba, and leave the 'pen be, but after that, I'll need a million dollars a year to come up with a plan.