Ha. I just caught Mike Rowe on "Dirtiest Jobs" the other night helping a crew replace one of those water tanks in the NYC. Man. What a pain in the ass. Freakin' dangerous, too.
1 will sound like WilliamNYY23 now but..starting Ponson again makes me seriously question Girardi..no possible benefit from this at all..Hughes, Aceves and IPK should be starting all this month..
I wonder if Girardi could have Hughes or IPK if he wanted--that seems like Cash's call to me....how many total MLB starts do we get next year out of Joba, Hughes and IPK? Anybody want to set an over-under? 30 too pessimistic?
15 "Jeter got down the line slooow" may be an accurate observation--I don't know, I didn't notice. "He couldn't have been running hard" is in no way an observation--it is a conclusion, an argument drawn from the aforementioned observation.
In any case, I was simply observing--accurately, no--the tenor of the Banter, which I had somewhat forgotten during my absence.
18 I guess we can't say for sure, but Girardi is on record saying he was keeping Ponson in the rotation because the Yankees didn't have any experienced alternatives. Also, Girardi really believes the Yankees are still alive. While his optimism is admirable, it is actually hurting the team.
20 Well, if you get the chance, watch the play and let us know what you think. I don't see how one could interpret a comment as having a tenor without actually noticing the play, unless honesty is the tenor to which you were referring.
24 That's not the issue. Someone told me I need to update my flash player, but I've downloaded the thing repeatedly and it doesn't seem to have any effect.
29 yep..hate the BoSox but they never hesitated to throw their rookie pitchers out there..IPK was awful but still rather see him fail than Ponson or Rasner..but this is a tiresome debate...
26 Perhaps "tenor" is not the most precise word. How about this, it's nice to tune back in and find you still questioning Jeter's effort. The bitchy tone starting in the first inning, honest or not, is one of the reasons I decided to take a break from the game threads.
34 I didn't question his effort...may be he is hurt? I don't know. What I do know is he did not run hard...the replay confirmed that. I am sorry if you object to an honest observation, but your response to it strikes me as having more of a "bitchy tone". In any event, maybe in the future I can live up to your standards.
29 et al. Phil Hughes is starting in the AAA playoffs today; Scranton leads the best of five series 2-1. I am not sure if this is the final playoff series for Scranton, but if so, then Hughes could be called up to pitch next week. Aceves is already in the rotation this week. I would be surprised if we don't see IPK and HUghes starting once or twice down the stretch.
47 I thought it was a strike at first. Mr. One Billion OPS+ would never make an out with RISP, he'll gladly take a walk. I don't think I've ever seen ARod make an out this year with RISP, he's money. Literally!
58 Yeah I know, I gots to chill on ARod but it is a lot of fun. Talking about ARod to an ARod "admirer" is like talking badly about Reagan to a neo-con.
65 My argument would have been the umpires shouldn't have stopped the play before its completion. It looked like the 1B umpire directed the runner toward 2B before Giambi had the chance to tag him.
79 No, he's a coach, and he's supposed to say that stuff, at least until the organization publicly runs up the white flag. If Cashman and/or the owners would announce that they are playing out the string, that would free out Girardi to invoke a whole new set of cliches.
73 I guess I'm wrong or we just get different feeds of ARod's at-bats.
That's possible.
Your tv is equipped with showing ARod launching homeruns where the Yankees are winning pennants and championships. Mine is El Cheapo with just negative results of ARod's at-bats.
I must admit, I had a television a lot like yours - I'd constantly spout off stats about his greatness. I guess, like PE, I don't believe the hype anymore.
Guys... nice responses to the "where is giambi in 2009" question. My take on your responses:
... While JD would propbably be our best option based on D, he is already one of our 'better' fielders in LF. Makes no sense to move him to 1st.
... Derek AIN'T being moved. His bat carries him as a slightly below average defensive SS. You want a .750-.775 OPS at 1B with no defensive experience?
... Dunn is a great bat, but Nady is not fast or athletic, and adding Dunn to the mix seems to be perpeuating the non-athletic/single dimensional player thing.
... Matsui makes the most sense only because his days in LF are over. He defense and range were terrible before his knees gave out. Having him at 1B at least adds to his value as opposed to being a pure DH.
While there are MANY reasons to let Jason walk, I don't think any of the above qualify. He has been healthy this year and is actually moving as good as I've seen Jason move. And we have all seen him makes scoops that JD/Jeter/Matsui/Posada/Dunn/Madonna might not.
Baseball players are expensive these days. Can you get sa FA with a .850+ OPS for under $12m? And how many years to you have to commit to that?
I have to guess Jason would love to stay on the Yanks and play in the new stadium. He won't play for free, but I'm sure he would give a few million a year to stay. I can't see him wanting to move to another team for his last 2 years.
Everyone says we can afford money, not propsects. Giambi at 2/$24ish is probably a below market deal.
Again, I don't think he is a great option, but outside of Tex, I really haven't seen a better one yet.
87 As I posted in the previous thread, I think the Yankees main target on offense should be Manny. I also think that shouldn't preclude them from pursuing Texeira.
90 Sorry William, I HAVE to believe my eyes. On my TV, ARod is running over to the stands and copping feels from young girls. No wonder he has such a bad rep!
87 Matsui at 1B a great idea..no ill will to Giambi but am ready to see him return to Oakland..
the defense needs upgrading, is Doug-Out still available for late-inning work?
89 Which doesn't make a whole lot of difference in any case, unless they resign him next season. At this point, giving his last four starts to Hughes or IPK doesn't matter all that much, no matter how galling it is to see Ponson on the mound.
94 I liek Giambi personally, but his game has too many flaws that mitigate against his offense. Also, 2008 was a healthy year for Jason. If you bring him back and he breaks down, you can't throw your hands up next season.
94 "the defense needs upgrading"
You think Matsui, who has never played the position and moves like a rusty robot, will be BETTER on defense then Jason?
95 True, but I want to see Hughes just so I can have a better feeling about him going into next year. I would think Girardi would want the same opportunity. I'd also think Hughes would too.
6 Alex, I know you posted this a while ago but I just got here. Anyway, Safeco really is a beautiful park. Think Camden without the warehouse and with a nice skyline. Especially during evening games when the sun is setting.
Heck of a lot better than Nationals Park. That was a disappointment.
97 Actually, at first he just wanted those two years picked up. If Manny is willing to takle a hefty 2-year deal, I do it in a heart beat. He is still a great hitter.
according to RLYW, we have the worst defense in the majors; the easiest way to address that problem is to make damn sure neither Hideki nor Bobby are patrolling the corner OF positions...
9498 Who stands a better chance of staying healthy--Matsui or Giambi? At this point in their careers, I'm not sure.
I still think the team should exercise Giambi's option and bring him back next season, then say goodbye. It is a risk that he will break down, sure. But I would like to think that they can get one 1B out of both him and Matsui.
Because Cashman somehow got the Tigers to take Farnsworth, couldn't he somehow bamboozle them for Granderson. He'd look mighty fine in the new digs. Yes, I am well aware this is a ridiculous thought. : )
105 Neither am I. I wouldn't trust either, but only one is already under contract. That's why I would go after Tex and Manny. The cost for each wont be much more than you are paying Abreu and Giambi this year. Also, the cost for Manny next year wouldn't be much more than what you'd be paying Giambi in 2009.
107 Matsui is three years younger, but both are really on the wrong side of 30. Is Matsui really a much better athlete at this point? And does that really matter that much at 1B?
107 I think part of it was that I saw the Nationals play the Braves. A ticket in the 4th deck was $23 (the cheapest available) and the entire stadium felt like a concrete monster. I enjoyed the game for the most part, but I don't understand how a team that's so consistently horrible can charge so much for tickets. I'd much rather go to Camden and sit in the outfield bleachers for $15.
Not to mention that they have a "host" throughout the game who could be a Ryan Seacrest clone and their between-innings promotions are worse than I've seen at a Rookie level stadium. Not that I went for the promotions, but there's really no fan interaction to keep true fans hooked. Everyone in my section spent the entire game eating, waiting in line to get food, talking on their cell phones, and complaining about the lack of vendors (the beer guy only came through twice).
Does anyone on this planet think Manny will take a 2 year deal? The rumor is 4/$100m. This is silly Boras talk, but a number of teams would go 3/$60.
Yes, he is a great hitter still, but unlike in Fenway, he can't play LF in Yankee Stadium. So he is a full time DH for 3 years, which takes away our 'rest spot' for the other elderly on this team.
Benching Pavano goes without saying. I know this is heresy to some, but I am not all that excited to see Pettitte starting the rest of the season. That's another 8 starts or so that could go to young pitchers.
121 What teams can afford Manny, or have shown a willingness to take on a player like him? Probably the Mets, Dodgers and Yankees. So, the bidding wont be that aggressive. I think a 2yr/$45-50mn deal would get it done.
I think you could get away playing him 50/50 in the OF/DH. The Yankees have won with Matsui in LF and I don't think Manny is that much worse. He is such a good hitter that even defense as bad as his doesn't come close to canceling him out.
114 I said this in the last thread, but rather than waste time and infuriate me by using Gardner, I'd have a contest where every day a fan could take Brett's spot in the order and customary job of standing there and striking out looking.
On a related not, Singleton just made some comment about Damon working with Brett on his "stroke." Damon is now one of precious few who actually knows what Brett Gardner swinging a bat looks like.
Does anyone remember if Hughes and IPK pitched well in Spring Training. WW has comments from Cashman insinuating that neither will be assured a starting slot next season, but would have to win a job in Spring Training. I wonder if they performed well enough this Spring to "win" a job.
127 I didn't mean that he deserves to ride the pine. I only meant that I would prefer to see Hughes or even IPK pitch than Pettitte, at this point in the season.
You're not being petty at all with Pavano. When they stuck him in the rotation a couple of weeks ago, it sort of made sense because the team still had a shot the post season. But they are playing for anything except next season. There is no reason to waste starts on Pavano.
Damon has become one of my favorite players, that guy is a monster.
I realize now why Sox fans were so hurt when he left them to come the Yanks - I'm sure the hurt was magnified a billion times more because he came to the Yanks - but he's a player and he pours his heart and soul out there.
He may have a spaghetti arm, but he sure knows what to do out there with the bat and knows how to run the bases well.
130 Based on what little I've seen of Gardner's swing, Gardner would definitely stand to benefit from Damon's advice. I also think it's pretty impressive that Damon would work with him.
Amid all the disappointments of this season, Damon has really been a bright spot. He has become one of my favorite players on the team. There were a lot of questions about how well he would hold up, but I am very happy the Yankees signed him.
116 I saw the nats beat the dodgers 2-1 last week from the 400's section. I bought a block of six = tickets for $48 from stubhub plus $10 transaction fee and there were many tickets at that price or lower.
Paying face at an empty stadium is not a good idea! I much prefer nats stadium to camden yards so far even though the nats stink up the joint. Maybe it's because the park is 12 minutes from my place and I can park my motorcycle across the street - it's just so easy. The sunsets from there have been amazing too. And the sight lines are decent from even the worst seats.
So William... in your attempt to get younger, more athletic and players who play the game right, you want to give Manny $50m to play LF/DH for the Yankees? I still say he won't go 2 years. It's not the money, but the playing time he wants to amass numbers.
Manny has 520 HRs. It will take him 3 years to get to 600. The guy is piling up historic numbers, and he is aware of it.
At 36, this is his last contract of size. I don't think he will take 2 years. ZERO chance.
TB might be interested. If Hafner is done, maybe Cleveland. How about a platoon of Vlad/Manny? There are plenty of takers.
134 I'm glad Damon is working with him. If we're going to keep him on the team and use him semi-regularly, there are worse guys to tutor him.
However, no amount of tutoring will make a difference if Brett goes up there every time with the sole gameplan of taking everything and hoping he gets four balls before three strikes.
Nice. Cool to play a team suckier than our own. Man, I can't remember the last time the Yanks gave up a lead and then came roaring back like it was nothing...
The Yankes had 2 games recently where they were ahead but took the starter out after 4. Why not put in Moose for the 5th? It's sleazy, but he could pitch one inning and get a win. Moose deserves a break!
Off-topic: Congrats to Hakeem The Dream Olajuwon on his entry into the Hall of Fame..3rd best C of all time (after Kareem and Wilt), two-time champion and model for all Muslim-Americans on how to face prejudice and ignorance with dignity and patience..(Although big minus points for beating the Knicks in O.J. Summer of 95)...
147 Whoaaa...I am not attempting to get younger, faster or more athletic. I am looking to get better. If you put Manny and Arod in the same lineup, I think they would really feed off each other and put up monster numbers.
If Cleveland was willing to dump C.C., there is no way they'd go after Manny. TB wasn't willing to spend any money to supplement their team down the stretch. I can't imagine them going for Manny. The Angels are also facing FA for Tex and Krod. They will have to pay Vlad after next season. I really doubt they'd be players.
150 I was thinking about this and IF Moose wins 20 and that pushes him over the top for the Hall of Fame, I would consider this season more of a success than if the Yankees made the playoffs and were bounced in the first round.
159 The comparison between CC and Manny does not hold. Cleveland knew CC will cmmand a six or seven year deal for megabucks. Manny is a different case--fewer years and (probably) fewer dollars, whether he is signed for two, three, or four years.
155 That only works if the Yankees take the lead in the fifth, when Moose pitches. Otherwise, it would be up to the official scorer to give the win to the pitcher whom he thought was most effective.
The best chance for Mosse to win 20 might be for them to juggle the rotation and try to get him an extra start somehow. That and beating the hopeless M's tomorrow.
165 If the premise is that enough suitors (like Cleveland) would be interested that the years would reach 4, then I think the refusal to sign Sabathia (a young, homegrown pitcher coming of a CY) is applicable.
Even if you want to dismiss that comp, the Indians MO is not to spend that kind of money.
166 My enjoyment as a Yankee fan encompasses all of their successes. I also relish both the team's and all of baseball history. Watching Moose's induction and being able to see his plaque at the Hall would mean more to me in the long run than the accomplishment of making the playoffs, but being bounced in the first round.
170 What did Charles Smith do in that series? I remember him that year against the bulls and being blocked every time he went up for the dunk. I don't remember anything significant in the year against the Rockets though.
174 An up-tempo coach stuck with only three players who could fit right in (Nate Robinson, David Lee and the new kid). I see improvement, but not playoffs.
167178 He would have the same number of years, but really, his numbers with the O's were so much better. Obviously the player is given a lot (all?) say as to what cap he wears on his plaque, but he really "should" go in as an Oriole. In either case, I hope he gets into the HOF, because I think that he is a no-doubter. Whether the voters agree is another story...
177 You're right, he wasn't significant in that series, and was gone afterwards. It's just that his quadrille under the basket during that Bulls series was so bad, it never wore off. Never mind if Jordan, Pippen and Grant were hanging on him like knapsacks, that was just a mind-bending moment.
182 Actually, the Hall of Fame has usually given the player little say, except in cases where they split their career among two teams. Mussina's best years were with Baltimore, but the tenure and performance is close enough that either team would not compromise the historical integrity of the Hall. I think Moose would have a big say in it.
174180 I'm really looking forward to what D'Antoni can do with the team (I was a big Suns fan while he was coach), but they're going to be clearing salaries this year and rebuilding gradually. I'd be shocked if they got anywhere near the playoffs...too much deadwood, too little salary flexibility at this point.
william, that video was unbelievable. I think Hershiser's dancing will be giving me nightmares tonight.
189 Actually, I think historically they gave the player more say (e.g., Reggie), but since Boggs flirted with Tampa, they clamped down again. Besides, Winfield is a case like Moose. I think either hat preserves historical integrity.
If I was the Yankees I would send Joba to winter ball to get 40 innings or so and then give him an extra month off. I would start his ST in mid-March and then have him join the rotation in early May. I wouldn't even toy with the idea of having start the year in the bullpen.
181 Lo siento, amigo, I just couldn't help myself. If I start sounding like Mattpat, it's because of the Knicks. Or should I say the the Cablevishits... enjoy the J, I'm going ta bed (gotta be an early riser tomorrow, bleah)...
This is the 5th time in 2+ weeks that Girardi has gone to Mo for more than one inning. Burning out Mariano in an attempt to chase a pipe dream would really be tragic.
193 that's a good idea, but I just don't see them doing that. I wish they would because it would keep his innings progression on pace with what they were hoping.
192 Reggie is pretty recent as a historical comparison. Winfield's case was pretty weird, because he probably would not have made it into the hall if he did not amass counting stats playing on a bunch of teams late in his career. Really, SD and NY represented each only 1/3 of his career. But he actually played more seasons for NY, he was most famous for NY, and he had arguable a better career in NY than in SD.
So in that way, the Moose case is not really parallel with Winfield. Unless something weird happens, Moose will finish his career with the same or fewer years with NY, fewer wins, and worse numbers.
On the grand scheme I don't care that much. But if I bother to care, I think that it would be disappointing if he did not go into the HOF as an Oriole.
199 Reggie is recent, but came before Boggs. I think his flirting with TB is what made the Hall get more strict.
I think what the Hall of Fame is trying to do is make sure that the player wears the hat of a team that is historical accurate (i.e., when you think of that player, what team comes to mind as much as how well did he do with that team). The reason I think Moose and Winfield are similar cases is because both men spent a similar amount of time with their two possible teams, and both are very identifiable by each one.
Who decides what team logo will be used on Hall of Fame plaques?
The choice of which team's logo appears on a player's plaque is the Museum's decision, though we always consider the wishes of an inductee. As a history Museum, it's important that the logo be emblematic of the historical accomplishments of that player's career. A player's election to the Hall of Fame is a career achievement, and as such, every team for whom he played is listed on the plaque; however, the logo selection is based on where that player makes his most indelible mark.
201 True. The whole wearing a hat thing is a quaint holdover from an age where you could count on star players (usually) spending most or all of their careers with the same team. I think it would be better to ditch the hats and just players in as individuals, but that won't happen.
203 With which team did Moose make a more indelible mark? If you go on performance, it would be Baltimore, but I think Mussina has also left his mark as a Yankee. If he wins 20 as a Yankee and especially if he wins 300, I think it would almsot entirely be Moose's call. If that's the case, I think he would select the Yankees.
203 That's what the HOF says, and has said for years. What they actually do, however, does not always square with their own stated procedure. What hat is Fisk wearing on his plaque?
True about Fisk. He is a Red Sox through and through... even being from NH. I think he wanted to go in as a White Sox because he was angry at the Red Sox for how he was released. This was a mistake by the hall.
Fisk waving his WS HR fair is a classic moment. Who cares that he played on the White Sox?
206 20 wins or not, there is no doubt in my mind that he left a more indelible mark with Baltimore. One statistically fluky season at age 38 does not outweigh the indelibility of his early Baltimore career. For most of his time in Baltimore he was one of the "faces" of the organization (Ripken was Mr. oriole, of course); that has never really been the case with the Yankees.
Again, I think the whole practice of putting players in wearing a cap is silly and antiquated, so on the grand scheme I don't really care all that much. But based on the HOF's own stated criteria, I have a hard time seeing any argument for Moose-in-Yankee-cap.
Since Cliff posted here earlier about his distaste for Mark Grace as an analyst, he (and you) may enjoy this brand new piece on FJM referring to something in the Dodgers-Dbacks game today. Warning: Contains Eckstein references. Proceed with caution.
210 Fisk and the Red Sox burried the htachett when he was elected and I think he wanted to go in with the B. Since then, Fisk has had his number retired and become a most favored member of RSN.
208 I thought Fisk was put in with his cap backwards, so that he would "honor" neither team (since he was pissed at both). This was done as a concession by the HOF because he threatened to boycott the ceremony. Or at least that is how I recall it.
206 Its worth noting that if Moose wins 300 as a Yankee, he will certainly have more wins and probably more years, and possibly more strikeouts as a Yankee than as an Oriole.
212 I don't know...Moose pitched on some pretty mediocre Oriole teams. I also don't really think the O's had faces....they had one face, Mr. Ripken. Since coming to the Yankees, Mussina has had a higher profile and also pitched in many more post season games. I think there's a chance that when all is said and done, more people will remember Moose as a Yankee than an Oriole. At least, I think it is close enough that I wouldn't say the Hall of Fame was compromising its principle.
From Wikipedia:
Fisk was inducted into the Baseball Hall of Fame in 2000 choosing the Boston Red Sox cap for his plaque, although he played for more seasons with the Chicago White Sox.
219 I would be careful about the "people remember" argument. As a kid, I never really knew Fisk played for the Red Sox...he was always a longtime White Sox player to me. It is the job of the HOF to determine where a player made his "indelible mark", whatever that means. His higher profile with the Yankees is largely a product of the Yankees' higher profile as an organization. I'm not convinced that is what the HOF means by leaving an indelible mark. Moose has been more or less unremarkable with the Yankees. Good and even very good at times, but his Yankees career has not been particularly noteworthy. He was an ace for the Orioles for years. That, in my opinion, is indelible.
222 By people will remember, I mean in 20 or 30 years, when people who barely saw Moose play, more people will associate him with the Yankees. I never saw Fisk play for Boston, yet I think of him as a Red Sox.
Also, the Yankees higher profile has definitely played a role in raising Mussina's, but that's part of the equation. Ultimately, I think "more people" will remember Mussina as a very good pitcher on some very good Yankee teams (and those battles with Pedro) than being a great for a few years on some mediocre Oriole teams. To me, at least, context is a major contributor to being indelible. It's kind of like a tree falling in the forest with no one around.
226 I understand your point, but I'm not sure that it does (or rather, should) factor into indelible. One of the reasons for the five year waiting period is to allow emotion over a player subside, and so that the HOF can place the player in his historical context. Moose's indelible mark on the game came with Baltimore, not NY. That more fans were in the stands or tuning in on TV just doesn't count as much for me, and (I hope) not as much for the HOF.
But like I said all along, I would not have players go in with caps on in the first place.
"As a kid, I never really knew Fisk played for the Red Sox...he was always a longtime White Sox player to me"
------------------------------------
Fisk's HR in the Sox WS is one of the top 10 WS moments. He was already a premiere Catcher when on the Sox. He and Munson were considered 1 and 2. He didn't matter who he played for after the Sox. His longevity and productivity came with the White Sox, but he was ALREADY famous on the Red Sox.
To me, Reggie Jackson was 'on his way' as an Athletic. Giambi was famous as an Athletic.
Doc Gooden was famous as a Met.
Bobby Murcer was a Yankee. Even if he didn't come back and ended up with more years on other teams... he was a Yankee.
Because of free agency, players move around. If we look at a pitchers 'win' or the number of years, small market teams that develop/invest in a player who becomes a potential HOFer with them, will never have anyone who goes in under their cap.
Many guys establish themselves as greats with a certain team, even though they might end up playing more years with another team. But that is bacause of free agency.
I'm sorry MP. EVERYONE knows that Carlton Fisk IS a Red Sox (even if it makes people in Chicago unhappy. I mean... just because you are too young to remember...)
231 The point I was making is that, of course, EVERYONE does not know Fisk was a Red Sock, or associate him more with the RS than WS. That is one of the reasons why the HOF exists, to preserve the historical record even as fans' memories distort and forget.
William was arguing that more people would remember Moose as a Yankee, and that may be true. But that would be no different from more people remembering Fisk as a White Sock.
Otherwise, I agree with the general sentiment of your post. That is why Moose should be associated with the O's even if he does linger around even for four more years with the Yanks and win 300 games with them.
Comment status: comments have been closed. Baseball Toaster is now out of business.
In any case, I was simply observing--accurately, no--the tenor of the Banter, which I had somewhat forgotten during my absence.
am sure I heard the Japanese announcers say "Ponson moved quickly for such a fat man"..
where did Richie Sexson end up? has he retired?
http://tinyurl.com/3b84dx
It was the thing to do in those days.
You guys are too lame, got me on YouTube now and not watching the action in the game..
Both camps just don't want to hear it.
That's possible.
Your tv is equipped with showing ARod launching homeruns where the Yankees are winning pennants and championships. Mine is El Cheapo with just negative results of ARod's at-bats.
I must admit, I had a television a lot like yours - I'd constantly spout off stats about his greatness. I guess, like PE, I don't believe the hype anymore.
; )
... While JD would propbably be our best option based on D, he is already one of our 'better' fielders in LF. Makes no sense to move him to 1st.
... Derek AIN'T being moved. His bat carries him as a slightly below average defensive SS. You want a .750-.775 OPS at 1B with no defensive experience?
... Dunn is a great bat, but Nady is not fast or athletic, and adding Dunn to the mix seems to be perpeuating the non-athletic/single dimensional player thing.
... Matsui makes the most sense only because his days in LF are over. He defense and range were terrible before his knees gave out. Having him at 1B at least adds to his value as opposed to being a pure DH.
While there are MANY reasons to let Jason walk, I don't think any of the above qualify. He has been healthy this year and is actually moving as good as I've seen Jason move. And we have all seen him makes scoops that JD/Jeter/Matsui/Posada/Dunn/Madonna might not.
Baseball players are expensive these days. Can you get sa FA with a .850+ OPS for under $12m? And how many years to you have to commit to that?
I have to guess Jason would love to stay on the Yanks and play in the new stadium. He won't play for free, but I'm sure he would give a few million a year to stay. I can't see him wanting to move to another team for his last 2 years.
Everyone says we can afford money, not propsects. Giambi at 2/$24ish is probably a below market deal.
Again, I don't think he is a great option, but outside of Tex, I really haven't seen a better one yet.
86 Something tells me the problem isn't on the TV's end.
the defense needs upgrading, is Doug-Out still available for late-inning work?
SIGN THAT GUY FOR NEXT YEAR!!!!!!!!
You think Matsui, who has never played the position and moves like a rusty robot, will be BETTER on defense then Jason?
Heck of a lot better than Nationals Park. That was a disappointment.
I still think the team should exercise Giambi's option and bring him back next season, then say goodbye. It is a risk that he will break down, sure. But I would like to think that they can get one 1B out of both him and Matsui.
102 Yankee23, what didn't you like about the Nationals park? I heard it was very nice...
101 I agree. Frankly, at this point I would rather see the team give tryouts more players, even marginal "prospects" like Gardner.
Not to mention that they have a "host" throughout the game who could be a Ryan Seacrest clone and their between-innings promotions are worse than I've seen at a Rookie level stadium. Not that I went for the promotions, but there's really no fan interaction to keep true fans hooked. Everyone in my section spent the entire game eating, waiting in line to get food, talking on their cell phones, and complaining about the lack of vendors (the beer guy only came through twice).
{/rant}
Yes, he is a great hitter still, but unlike in Fenway, he can't play LF in Yankee Stadium. So he is a full time DH for 3 years, which takes away our 'rest spot' for the other elderly on this team.
http://tinyurl.com/5py34o
Benching Pavano goes without saying. I know this is heresy to some, but I am not all that excited to see Pettitte starting the rest of the season. That's another 8 starts or so that could go to young pitchers.
"The Love Button"
"Push Me Hard!"
Don't they do any type of analysis on the target audience?
I think you could get away playing him 50/50 in the OF/DH. The Yankees have won with Matsui in LF and I don't think Manny is that much worse. He is such a good hitter that even defense as bad as his doesn't come close to canceling him out.
Now, it may be petty, but why the Yankees would let Pavano audition for his next contract is beyond me.
On a related not, Singleton just made some comment about Damon working with Brett on his "stroke." Damon is now one of precious few who actually knows what Brett Gardner swinging a bat looks like.
You're not being petty at all with Pavano. When they stuck him in the rotation a couple of weeks ago, it sort of made sense because the team still had a shot the post season. But they are playing for anything except next season. There is no reason to waste starts on Pavano.
I realize now why Sox fans were so hurt when he left them to come the Yanks - I'm sure the hurt was magnified a billion times more because he came to the Yanks - but he's a player and he pours his heart and soul out there.
He may have a spaghetti arm, but he sure knows what to do out there with the bat and knows how to run the bases well.
Amid all the disappointments of this season, Damon has really been a bright spot. He has become one of my favorite players on the team. There were a lot of questions about how well he would hold up, but I am very happy the Yankees signed him.
and he's SAAAAAAFE! Bobby A with the 3-bagger
sorry bu A-Rod gets hit too much!
Paying face at an empty stadium is not a good idea! I much prefer nats stadium to camden yards so far even though the nats stink up the joint. Maybe it's because the park is 12 minutes from my place and I can park my motorcycle across the street - it's just so easy. The sunsets from there have been amazing too. And the sight lines are decent from even the worst seats.
Go Giambi!
The Stache!
Manny has 520 HRs. It will take him 3 years to get to 600. The guy is piling up historic numbers, and he is aware of it.
At 36, this is his last contract of size. I don't think he will take 2 years. ZERO chance.
TB might be interested. If Hafner is done, maybe Cleveland. How about a platoon of Vlad/Manny? There are plenty of takers.
However, no amount of tutoring will make a difference if Brett goes up there every time with the sole gameplan of taking everything and hoping he gets four balls before three strikes.
Matsui is just a solid hitter..
That's just...not right.
If Cleveland was willing to dump C.C., there is no way they'd go after Manny. TB wasn't willing to spend any money to supplement their team down the stretch. I can't imagine them going for Manny. The Angels are also facing FA for Tex and Krod. They will have to pay Vlad after next season. I really doubt they'd be players.
I think he already should be a HOF lock, but I would love for this to cement it.
BTW, does he go in as a Yankee or O? If he plays another two years with us after this, he'll have comprable numbers with both teams.
The best chance for Mosse to win 20 might be for them to juggle the rotation and try to get him an extra start somehow. That and beating the hopeless M's tomorrow.
Even if you want to dismiss that comp, the Indians MO is not to spend that kind of money.
sorry for b-ball chat just can't get too excited about this game...
any fans out there with thoughts on D'Antoni?
Two more Jetes!
william, that video was unbelievable. I think Hershiser's dancing will be giving me nightmares tonight.
I'm sayin it now. Joba and Cano for Ichiro!
193 that's a good idea, but I just don't see them doing that. I wish they would because it would keep his innings progression on pace with what they were hoping.
194 Esta bien!! Buenas noche!
So in that way, the Moose case is not really parallel with Winfield. Unless something weird happens, Moose will finish his career with the same or fewer years with NY, fewer wins, and worse numbers.
On the grand scheme I don't care that much. But if I bother to care, I think that it would be disappointing if he did not go into the HOF as an Oriole.
I think what the Hall of Fame is trying to do is make sure that the player wears the hat of a team that is historical accurate (i.e., when you think of that player, what team comes to mind as much as how well did he do with that team). The reason I think Moose and Winfield are similar cases is because both men spent a similar amount of time with their two possible teams, and both are very identifiable by each one.
Who decides what team logo will be used on Hall of Fame plaques?
The choice of which team's logo appears on a player's plaque is the Museum's decision, though we always consider the wishes of an inductee. As a history Museum, it's important that the logo be emblematic of the historical accomplishments of that player's career. A player's election to the Hall of Fame is a career achievement, and as such, every team for whom he played is listed on the plaque; however, the logo selection is based on where that player makes his most indelible mark.
Anyway, nice win by the boys tonight.
Fisk waving his WS HR fair is a classic moment. Who cares that he played on the White Sox?
Again, I think the whole practice of putting players in wearing a cap is silly and antiquated, so on the grand scheme I don't really care all that much. But based on the HOF's own stated criteria, I have a hard time seeing any argument for Moose-in-Yankee-cap.
http://www.firejoemorgan.com/
He did set the then record for HR by a catcher with the White Sox. And that was not in a tack-on year--his career numbers for the WS were pretty good.
From Wikipedia:
Fisk was inducted into the Baseball Hall of Fame in 2000 choosing the Boston Red Sox cap for his plaque, although he played for more seasons with the Chicago White Sox.
And the proof:
http://tinyurl.com/5oqbgc
Also, the Yankees higher profile has definitely played a role in raising Mussina's, but that's part of the equation. Ultimately, I think "more people" will remember Mussina as a very good pitcher on some very good Yankee teams (and those battles with Pedro) than being a great for a few years on some mediocre Oriole teams. To me, at least, context is a major contributor to being indelible. It's kind of like a tree falling in the forest with no one around.
But like I said all along, I would not have players go in with caps on in the first place.
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Fisk's HR in the Sox WS is one of the top 10 WS moments. He was already a premiere Catcher when on the Sox. He and Munson were considered 1 and 2. He didn't matter who he played for after the Sox. His longevity and productivity came with the White Sox, but he was ALREADY famous on the Red Sox.
To me, Reggie Jackson was 'on his way' as an Athletic. Giambi was famous as an Athletic.
Doc Gooden was famous as a Met.
Bobby Murcer was a Yankee. Even if he didn't come back and ended up with more years on other teams... he was a Yankee.
Because of free agency, players move around. If we look at a pitchers 'win' or the number of years, small market teams that develop/invest in a player who becomes a potential HOFer with them, will never have anyone who goes in under their cap.
Many guys establish themselves as greats with a certain team, even though they might end up playing more years with another team. But that is bacause of free agency.
I'm sorry MP. EVERYONE knows that Carlton Fisk IS a Red Sox (even if it makes people in Chicago unhappy. I mean... just because you are too young to remember...)
William was arguing that more people would remember Moose as a Yankee, and that may be true. But that would be no different from more people remembering Fisk as a White Sock.
Otherwise, I agree with the general sentiment of your post. That is why Moose should be associated with the O's even if he does linger around even for four more years with the Yanks and win 300 games with them.
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