Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
Through The Looking Glass
2008-09-03 14:05
by Cliff Corcoran
Note: The Bronx Banter blog has moved to

Untitled Joe Girardi got some heat for taking Carl Pavano out of his last start after just 72 pitches despite the fact that Pavano had allowed just one run on three hits through six innings. I had no problem with it. The Yankees had a slim one-run lead, the one run Pavano gave up came in the sixth, he'd only struck out one batter, and the Blue Jays had been hitting the ball hard but right at the Yankee fielders all night. The Yankees won the game 2-1, but that didn't seem to take much heat off the Yankee manager.

Pavano was actually better in his first start, when he struck out five and got nine ground balls (as opposed to the three he got against the Jays). In his two starts, Pavano has walked just two and allowed no home runs. It's tempting to argue that letting Pavano audition for a contract for 2009 is against the Yankees' best interests right now, but he's actually been the Yankees second-best starter the last two times through the rotation.

Pavano takes a clean 2-0 record and a fine 3.27 ERA into tonight's game against the Rays. He'll be opposed by Edwin Jackson, who is one of the unsung heroes of the first-place Rays. A failed Dodger prospect acquired for relievers Danys Baez and Lance Carter prior to the 2006 season, Jackson entered this season with a 5.64 career ERA and a 5.02 career BB/9. This season, he's boasting a 3.81 ERA and an improved 3.98 BB/9. Over his last seven starts, he's 6-1 with a 2.59 ERA; over his last 12 starts, he's 7-2 with a 3.07 ERA. In four starts against the Yankees this year, he has a 2.59 ERA, a 3.33 BB/9, and has allowed just one home run (to Hideki Matsui), though the Rays are just 2-2 in those games. One of those loses was by a score of 2-1 in a game started by Jackson and Sidney Ponson. Tonight's game could prove to be a similarly unlikely pitchers duel.

Comments (170)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-09-03 15:17:44
1.   Dimelo
Let's go ARod!!! Let's see that 900+ OPS in "clutch" situations.

Oh yeah, that only happens during odd years and when Salem has their next witch hunt.

That said, I'll take a solo shot, 1st inning please!!!

2008-09-03 15:19:26
2.   Dimelo
It would actually be impossible for ARod to hit a solo shot in the 1st inning, ok...ok...I've been accused of not trying before, so I'll take the solo dinger in the 2nd then.
2008-09-03 16:01:32
3.   Alex Belth
You'll take what you get and you'll like it, Mister! LOL. D, you've been on the Rampage lately. Good to see the fire hasn't left yer belly, son. Let's go Spankjobs.

Dude, Pavano is going to get murdalized tonight.

2008-09-03 16:28:27
4.   RZG
3 On a rampage? More like a broken record.
2008-09-03 16:28:46
5.   Just fair
There is a literal star in centerfield. Upton stands on it or nearly in front of it. Damon plays about 20 feet behind it. That's why it's 1-zip.
2008-09-03 16:34:45
6.   OldYanksFan
5 Upton goes back very well... as we saw last night. JD... not so much.
2008-09-03 16:35:49
7.   rbj
2008-09-03 16:36:20
8.   rbj

I like two out rallies.

2008-09-03 16:39:05
9.   Just fair
6 He doesn't come in very well either. : )
Man. Who the hell is going to be roaming cf in the new Yankees Stadium?
2008-09-03 16:40:35
10.   Biscuit Pants
2008-09-03 16:45:49
11.   taketwoaspirin
2 That's not impossible; there are a couple of scenarios where the cleanup hitter could hit a solo home run. All that has to happen is that one or more of the the first three batters scores and that the bases are emptied, either by a home run or by some other form of out.
2008-09-03 16:47:18
12.   Biscuit Pants
3 Not sure I agree, Alex . . . I still can't figure out how this lineup is doing it with an OPS worse than ours.
2008-09-03 16:47:39
13.   Just fair
10 Karim Garcia?
2008-09-03 16:48:54
14.   Biscuit Pants
13 Who?
2008-09-03 16:50:44
15.   Biscuit Pants
13 How about Rocco Baldelli?
2008-09-03 16:54:32
16.   weeping for brunnhilde
Truly impressive baserunning by Abreu.


2008-09-03 16:56:07
17.   Biscuit Pants
Stats Padder!
2008-09-03 16:59:47
18.   Biscuit Pants
OK, who is this team and what have they done with the Yankees?
2008-09-03 17:01:15
19.   randym77
Ohlendorf is starting for the Pirates tonight.
2008-09-03 17:02:45
20.   rbj
That shattered bat just sounded weird.
2008-09-03 17:05:03
21.   ms october
18 exactly - on the one hand it is nice to see that this team is still capabale of playing some good baseball - but on the other hand, it is quite frustrating as to why the hell couldn't they do this a bit more - especially against some crappy teams like the royals, tigers, indians
2008-09-03 17:07:23
22.   Biscuit Pants
21 What's going to really suck is if they have a big Sept. and still fall short of the WC . . .
2008-09-03 17:08:59
23.   weeping for brunnhilde
21 It's really sad that I can't muster any adrenaline at all. I mean, it's fun to watch because it's baseball and it's the Yanks, but it feels like a spring training game, except that there's nothing to look forward to but a long, cold, dark winter.
2008-09-03 17:09:59
24.   weeping for brunnhilde
22 At least if they could somehow inspire hope of even a remote chance it'd make the last month a bit more engaging. Or at all engaging.
2008-09-03 17:13:06
25.   Biscuit Pants
24 Even if they go 21-5 this month and the Sawx play .500 ball, they still only tie.
2008-09-03 17:14:25
26.   weeping for brunnhilde
25 Hmmm...that's, well, er, decidely ungood.
2008-09-03 17:15:48
27.   Biscuit Pants
26 Still . . . crap happens . . .
2008-09-03 17:16:36
28.   ms october
22 i sort of think that's what will happen - get teased yet with little hope and in the end fall a few games short
2008-09-03 17:19:45
29.   ms october
23 a long, cold, dark winter - that's so ominous sounding weeping.
i just hope they don't end up empty handed this offseason with all of the exact same issues.
2008-09-03 17:23:23
30.   Biscuit Pants
Ahhh . . . Brad Chadford . . .
2008-09-03 17:25:41
31.   rbj
Stat padding!
2008-09-03 17:27:23
32.   Alex Belth
LOL. Yanks getting lucky tonight. Some bleeders, and some unfortunate fielding by the Rays, especially Hinske. But good hustle by the Yanks, excellent double by Abreu, nice couple of base knocks by Alex...
2008-09-03 17:31:04
33.   Biscuit Pants
31 Dimelo's right. The guy's a bum.
2008-09-03 17:35:14
34.   weeping for brunnhilde
29 Heh heh.

Especially so in baseball terms, but frankly, for me, the phrase "long, cold, dark winter" is redundant.

Winter is irredeemable.

2008-09-03 17:36:35
35.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
Ohayo! Pavano going for 3 and 0...could it be he leads the Yanks down the stretch to a miracle comeback?? Ya Gotta Believe!!! (er, that slogan's already taken i guess...)
2008-09-03 17:38:26
36.   rbj
35 Isn't that a sign that we are in the End Days? I'm not up on my eschatology.
2008-09-03 17:38:56
37.   OldYanksFan
Man...Navarro blasted that one.
2008-09-03 17:40:16
38.   OldYanksFan
34 Where do you live?
2008-09-03 17:40:43
39.   Biscuit Pants
36 I tend to eschew eschatology
2008-09-03 17:41:52
40.   Biscuit Pants
2008-09-03 17:43:30
41.   OldYanksFan
That one was hit pretty hard too.
A radio announcer mentioned that the day game in Florida, while the official attendance is listed at 11,211, had about 600 fans in the seats for the 1st inning. Possible?
2008-09-03 17:43:36
42.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
CP takes an ERA hit there...damn, was hoping he could go all Rick Sutcliffe for us this month..
2008-09-03 17:45:08
43.   Biscuit Pants
41 Regardless of how well the Rays do over the next few years, I don't seem them staying in Fla.
2008-09-03 17:45:47
44.   Alex Belth
And the real Carl Pavano steps up.
2008-09-03 17:46:44
45.   Biscuit Pants
44 Oh ye of well-deserved little faith . . .
2008-09-03 17:50:27
46.   weeping for brunnhilde
You know what?

I'm tired of Robby.

He's up there smiling and I just had this feeling of having had enough of his act.

I love him and all, and what he might be or might have been, but I'm tired of him.

2008-09-03 17:50:59
47.   weeping for brunnhilde
38 CT.
2008-09-03 17:51:22
48.   weeping for brunnhilde
44 The real who?
2008-09-03 17:51:28
49.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
Orioles lost AGAIN to the BoSox?? actually feel bad for the fans there..I remember as a kid the Os and Royals were considered model franchises...
2008-09-03 17:57:53
50.   OldYanksFan
Pavs is tired. Yank him.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-09-03 17:59:18
51.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
50 no, let him go for the W! he worked so hard to get back for these last 5 starts of his 4-yr contract...
2008-09-03 18:12:55
52.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
line-out DP! was Cano in the perfect spot for that one? (did I mention Gameday sucks?)
2008-09-03 18:27:04
53.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
wow..everyone switch over to Marge Gunderson's speech? no one excited about another Phil Coke appearance?
2008-09-03 18:33:24
54.   weeping for brunnhilde
53 If you're referring to Palin, she's not on for another hour or so.

Marge son-of-a-Gunderson.

"What the heck do you mean?"

Great film.

I just finally saw No Country, btw. Very fine film as well. Much harder to digest. Much denser.

2008-09-03 18:36:12
55.   weeping for brunnhilde
Um, is it me, or is Jason the last person you want to count on to execute a hit and run?

Alex did seem to get a good jump, though, so maybe he was going on his own.

2008-09-03 18:38:32
56.   Dimelo
Just got home to see MY BOY ARod has two rbi's. Woo-hoo!!!
2008-09-03 18:39:30
57.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
54 love "Fargo", still holds up with multiple viewing. Willam Macy robbed of an Oscar for his Jerry Lundergaard, all-time loser in US cinema..

saw "No Country" on my computer..needs big-screen methinks. no humor or "good" characters to balance out the darkness as in Fargo...Bardem quite frightening for sure.

2008-09-03 18:44:56
58.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
hey weeping..someone just sent me this..
2008-09-03 18:46:32
59.   Shaun P
When I saw the one thread during the day go from like 5 comments to 40+, I just knew it had to be about A-Rod. Aiieeee!

Meanwhile, looks like old Glass Ass pitched OK again. Unreal.

23 This isn't like a spring training game weeping, its like a bizarro world game. For this season, at least.

2008-09-03 18:46:36
60.   weeping for brunnhilde
Man, Pena's got some serious, serious pop.

I thought that was a pop-up off the bat.

The thing just kept travelling.

2008-09-03 18:47:06
61.   tommyl
Hey, its a lefty who can actually pitch out of the pen. Who'd have thunk it? Gotta love seeing some of the kids at this point. Its the only thing keeping me going.
2008-09-03 18:48:44
62.   williamnyy23
56 So, you don't really watch the games, but come home in the middle of them? That doesn't say much for your observational approach to statistical analysis!

58 More politics :(

2008-09-03 18:50:46
63.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
62 sorry Williamnyy23! but i didn't comment, just a tinyurl..if that's also offbase then only humorous links from now on, promise..
2008-09-03 18:51:05
64.   Raf
53 I've been watching Serena & Venus Williams
2008-09-03 18:53:37
65.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
Gameday has Balfour at 96mph...accurate??
2008-09-03 18:56:10
66.   Shaun P
65 Don't know, but he was once a hot shot Twins prospect, and those guys seem to grow pitchers on trees . . . maybe he just took a while to develop?

62 There was political discussion too? I'm glad I missed that.

2008-09-03 18:57:28
67.   williamnyy23
63 Links have a way of leading to comments, and before you know it, there is a political debate...and nothing is more close-minded than a debate about politics.
2008-09-03 18:58:14
68.   williamnyy23
67 Well, maybe a debate about how bad Arod is comes close.
2008-09-03 19:02:21
69.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
68 I missed the big A-Rod debate (thankfully)..must have been during the day (your time)?
2008-09-03 19:04:40
70.   williamnyy23
69 It's a reoccuring debate that crops up everytime someone needs a $28mn scapegoat.
2008-09-03 19:06:44
71.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
70 really..just don't get it. guy is a pleasure to watch play..

anyways, great job by the bullpen today!

2008-09-03 19:09:27
72.   cult of basebaal
61 every coke appearance is an argument against picking up marte's option, it seems ... which i support, unless the opinion is that coke can challenge for a starting role next year ... he ain't no sean henn, at least so far.
2008-09-03 19:14:06
73.   Shaun P
72 Why pay $6M for a 30-something-year-old reliever, who (if let go) could bring back a draft pick or two, when you've got 43 possible candidates for the job?

Of course you're right that Coke is the only lefty among them, but still.

So Pavano didn't go 5 innings, ergo, he does not get the win . . . who does? Edwar?

2008-09-03 19:17:18
74.   cult of basebaal
73 well, 6 million isn't a large amount for the yankees and in essence, if you pick up the option, you're only pushing the draft picks back a year ... barring some complete meltdown, marte will be a type A again after 2009 ... there's an argument to be made for picking up the option and letting him go after the end of 2009.
2008-09-03 19:18:07
75.   Mattpat11
Watching Rudy. Yankees still winning?
2008-09-03 19:18:31
76.   tommyl
Woah, Alex hit that a longggg way.
2008-09-03 19:18:39
77.   pistolpete
2008-09-03 19:19:04
78.   Knuckles
'twas a bomb.

hard to argue when it goes a mile over the foul pole.

2008-09-03 19:20:39
79.   williamnyy23
Yeah...the first replay!!!
2008-09-03 19:21:18
80.   cult of basebaal
74 in any case, sutty needs slow killin' ... reaaaaal slow killin' ...
2008-09-03 19:21:19
81.   Shaun P
74 If they sign CC and Tex, I think $6M is going to be a lot for the Yanks.

As JL would say, what's the point of having all these pitching prospects if not to use them? Even if they trade a couple away, say to Texas for one of their catchers, there's plenty more!

Damn but I love A-Rod.

2008-09-03 19:21:28
82.   OldYanksFan
That had to travel over 500' if nothing was in the way. Looked foul.
2008-09-03 19:21:34
83.   tommyl
Its going to be ironic if Alex loses two homers this year to replay. One because they didn't have it, one because they did.
2008-09-03 19:21:43
84.   pistolpete
Figures it has to be on an A-Rod shot. Could have called that as soon as they announced it.
2008-09-03 19:22:03
85.   williamnyy23
The back foul strip is irrelevant. The ball leaves the ballpark after it passes the first pole.
2008-09-03 19:22:08
86.   Simone
I like witnessing history. I hope it was a home run.
2008-09-03 19:22:10
87.   Vandelay Industries
79 Yes, and I hope someone, somewhere, is plotting Bud Selig's death.
2008-09-03 19:22:17
88.   OldYanksFan
ARod thinks it's foul.
2008-09-03 19:22:21
89.   cult of basebaal
79 as petey says, "of course it comes down to alex, it always comes down to alex ..."
2008-09-03 19:22:37
90.   williamnyy23
After further review....the call stands...Home Run!
2008-09-03 19:23:31
91.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
put it on the Boarrrrrd, YES!
2008-09-03 19:23:47
92.   pistolpete
Hmm, I wish we could watch the umps watching, like with the refs in the NFL...

That was sort of anti-climactic.

2008-09-03 19:23:50
93.   Vandelay Industries
88 And of course Singleton says where it hit on the wall makes it foul, which is so so so so so not the rule at all. Foul pole Kenny, did you play this game?
2008-09-03 19:23:51
94.   OldYanksFan
I mean... was that a line drive???
2008-09-03 19:24:26
95.   Vandelay Industries
92 NO you don't, why? So they can get it wrong even after the replay? This blows!
2008-09-03 19:24:41
96.   williamnyy23
Something tells me the Rays pumpkin is about to turn back into whatever the pumpkin turns back into!

Too bad the Yankees are not in a position to take advantage.

2008-09-03 19:24:52
97.   cult of basebaal
81 if they sign tex, they almost certainly trade matsui ... like i said, it comes down to what they think coke can be, if they think he can start, it's worth the chance to find out if that is the case ...
2008-09-03 19:25:20
98.   tommyl
94 A-Rod hit one like that last year in the Stadium. I was there for it, he hit an upper deck shot to left field. I have never in my life seen a ball hit like that before. Every single fan around me was silent for a second, jaws dropped. It was unreal.
2008-09-03 19:26:28
99.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
97 they can't trade Matsui, then I will no longer get the Yankees on tv here 3-4 times a week...
2008-09-03 19:26:48
100.   Vandelay Industries
Is Cindy McCain holding Palin's baby? I am going to vomit!
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-09-03 19:27:04
101.   tommyl
99 Just have to sign Darvish then, eh?
2008-09-03 19:27:15
102.   3rd gen yankee fan
SO!!!! They have instant replay, and they STILL get it wrong! Great! Get rid of instant replay!!!! woo hoo! :-D
2008-09-03 19:27:42
103.   cult of basebaal
97 like i said, sutt needs a slow death ... how is it possible that he is more inane than morgan???
2008-09-03 19:27:56
104.   tommyl
100 Wait for it, Palin is still due to speak. I hope someone at some point asks her why she doesn't like polar bears. Oh, and why its ok to fire a librarian for refusing to ban books. That's a good one too.
2008-09-03 19:28:57
105.   cult of basebaal
100 i just wanna know how many times guiliani mentioned 9/11 ... i've got the over.
2008-09-03 19:28:59
106.   williamnyy23
93 Singleton said the exact opposite. It was Leiter who mentioned the back pole.
2008-09-03 19:29:00
107.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
101 Darvish can really pitch, but I worry about the abuse his arm is taking..saw him throw 145 pitches earlier this season, in agme they were winning by 5..Managers here think it "builds chracter" to suffer pain...
2008-09-03 19:29:12
108.   OldYanksFan
With a bit of a streak, ARod might still get his 35/100/100.
2008-09-03 19:29:26
109.   Vandelay Industries
104 The list is long my friend. But alas, she's hot and this is the United States, so I don't have a lot of faith in our voters.
2008-09-03 19:29:52
110.   Alex Belth
A Rod's shot was a BOMB. Incredibly, he was apparently struck out just prior but a fast ball wasn't called. How sweet it is...nice night for the All American Flop.
2008-09-03 19:30:10
111.   Vandelay Industries
106 You are correct. My bad. As I typed it I was so angry, then I thought, was that Al?
2008-09-03 19:30:16
112.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
105 I'd say a minimum of 16,000...saw him speak here last year, was at about that count..
2008-09-03 19:30:24
113.   williamnyy23
100 104 Is it really that hard to refrain from politics? Or should we all get on our partisan soap boxes and disparage the candidates we don't like?
2008-09-03 19:30:26
114.   cult of basebaal
104 now, now ... let's be fair ... she didn't fire any librarians ... she only inquired what it would take to ban questionable books ... allegedly.
2008-09-03 19:31:03
115.   tommyl
Evil, vile, woman. Go home, go away, please.
2008-09-03 19:31:55
116.   Vandelay Industries
113 Step right up and sell me your Republican tonic if you like?
2008-09-03 19:32:43
117.   williamnyy23
102 I think they got it right.

108 I am sure he will.

2008-09-03 19:33:17
118.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
113 with Yanks almost dead and this being a big's bound to creep in now and then, especially during the conventions...
2008-09-03 19:33:38
119.   tommyl
114 Ah, you're right. She did allegedly fire a safety commissioner for refusing to fire a state trooper in a divorce battle with her sister, but you know, allegedly.
2008-09-03 19:33:40
120.   Vandelay Industries
When did he become John "S" McCain? Is that new?
2008-09-03 19:34:08
121.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
ooohhh..just the video of A-Rod's dinger on!!
2008-09-03 19:34:57
122.   williamnyy23
116 I don't like "to sell tonic". An intelligent debate about politics can be worthwhile, but the types of comments exhibited here are far from that. Besides, this is a blog about baseball, not politics. If you want to throw out snide remarks, there are lots of liberal leaning blogs where you can satisfy your desires. I don't think this is the appropriate place.
2008-09-03 19:36:08
123.   cult of basebaal
track? where's field?
2008-09-03 19:37:12
124.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
122 but with targets like Bubba Clinton and Mitt can we resist??
2008-09-03 19:37:38
125.   cult of basebaal
120 john "s" mccain ... barack "hussein" obama ... it all evens out ... especially on FOX, dontcha know?
2008-09-03 19:37:43
126.   Vandelay Industries
122 Dude, I was actually trying to dig at you with a sense of humor, not to be snide. I too attempt to be objective and am in fact registered Independent. But this convention is a freakshow if I ever did see one.
2008-09-03 19:40:00
127.   Vandelay Industries
My neighbor from New Paltz, NY is running for VP. OMG! Is her husband going to change America's oil too?
2008-09-03 19:40:55
128.   tommyl
122 I fail to see how pointing out things that Palin has actually done in her political history that frighten me is making snide remarks. I'm afraid she's inexperienced, that she believes creationism should be taught in schools, doesn't believe in global warming, doesn't understand the issues of energy independence and seems willing to abuse her powers for personal reasons. Those are not snide remarks.
2008-09-03 19:41:53
129.   williamnyy23
126 I wasn't referring to your comments to me as snide, but rather the comments about the convention. I happen to think the Dems convention was more of a freakshow, but I don't think Bronx Banter is the place to express that opinion. I'd like to think most here would prefer that those who want to post political insults would move over to the Juice Blog or whereever else those comments are appropriate.
2008-09-03 19:42:44
130.   Vandelay Industries
128 I second that emotion. I am certainly not saying Obama is perfect, but I sure as hell want a President smarter than I am who doesn't want to ban books. Is that so much to ask?
2008-09-03 19:42:44
131.   cult of basebaal
126 i dunno ... all conventions are freakshows ... the DNC was an egregious display of horseshit ... this is an egregrious display of bullshit ... your choice as to what upsets your breakfast more.
2008-09-03 19:43:08
132.   pistolpete
Oh Alex, you just know everything about yourself, don't you?
2008-09-03 19:43:38
133.   Alex Belth
This lady is a freaking joke...but she's too scary to be funny.
2008-09-03 19:44:02
134.   williamnyy23
128 What you just stated are not snide remarks (even though they are not accurate). 115 and 119 are examples of snide remarks. Of course, this is a baseball blog, so I don't see the point of going down the political road.
2008-09-03 19:44:17
135.   Vandelay Industries
131 What that breakfast costs is more important. I am not in attack mode, I can find fault in Obama too. Just not the kind of fault that is not like Fascism, but is the very definition of Fascism.
2008-09-03 19:46:03
136.   Vandelay Industries
134 So then Mr. Arbiter, where are your posts requesting Alex limit his posts to baseball, not music, or art, or literature, or his childhood etc.? Just be consistent, not simply shout down topics you don't like.
2008-09-03 19:48:00
137.   Vandelay Industries
How can you say 119 is not accurate?
2008-09-03 19:48:04
138.   williamnyy23
130 I didn't realize that Palin is running for President, or is that the strategy to avoid running against McCain? Also, while I'm sure you are a smart guy, I would be so sure you are smarter than any of the 4 candidates involved in this campaign. As for banning books and killing polar bears, I am more concerned about banning offshore exploration and killing unborn babies, but maybe we have different priorities?
2008-09-03 19:48:11
139.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
130 I wasn't aware she wanted to ban books...that is troubling...

134 inevitable, isn't it though? this really is a big one...maybe if the Yanks were in contention there'd be less distraction..

2008-09-03 19:48:30
140.   tommyl
133 Its also depressing how this speech is so far all either snide remarks, one liners and digs on "experience." She keeps saying she wants to challenge the status quo and things of that ilk, shaking things up, but how?! What policies do you propose? How do you offer to improve conditions for the average American? Love or hate Obama and Biden but at least they laid our clear, concrete plans. As Obama said, this election is too important for it to be made about the same little things, the republicans don't seem to get it.
2008-09-03 19:50:47
141.   Vandelay Industries
134 I've always thought of this blog as a very smart place that focuses primarily on the NY Yankees.
2008-09-03 19:50:53
142.   williamnyy23
136 Alex can do what he likes...but I think there is that rule of thumb about avoiding religion and politics. If you think otherwise, I guess we can denigrate Obama and Palin and shout down each others ideology instead of discuss the Yankees. Actually, that doesn't seem productive to me, so I'll return to discussing the Yankees.
2008-09-03 19:51:27
143.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
I love how everyone praises the "Washington outsider"...if being an outsider is so good, why do they all run for office to become insiders?? jay-zuz, makes the politics over here seem respectable..and we're on our 3rd Prime Minister in a year...
2008-09-03 19:51:36
144.   tommyl
138 William, if you want to argue about pro-choice and pro-life that's an argument I can respect. I'm pro-choice myself, but I can see your point of view. What I can't abide is her position on abstinence only sex education. That's been shown to lead to more diseases and pregnancies among teens. Its a nice thing to say, but it has no basis in fact and causes harm to many people.

As for offshore exploration, all the oil in ANWR and offshore is still a tiny, tiny percent of our nation's needs. It will not solve the energy crisis or lower gas prices.

2008-09-03 19:52:00
145.   Shaun P
Well, nice win by the Yanks, huh? I'm not sure if it helps the drive to the 15th best record (and the protected 1st round pick), but its hard to be sad about a win.
2008-09-03 19:52:43
146.   tommyl
143 I also don't understand how the Republicans want to shake up Washington. Are they unaware they've been running the country for the last eight years?
2008-09-03 19:52:56
147.   Vandelay Industries
138 I agree with your premise, which is why I abandoned party politics. But both of your stated positions are objectively wrong. Unless of course you decry all killing, then you get my respect.
2008-09-03 19:53:26
148.   tommyl
145 Esepcially a well played on. Almost makes you hold out hope, till you realize Boston won again and we'll go back to not hitting with RISP at all in a couple of days.
2008-09-03 19:54:20
149.   Vandelay Industries
144 You cannot confuse Conservatives with facts.
2008-09-03 19:54:25
150.   Alex Belth
Hey, that was my bad slipping and mentioning politics. Sorry about that. I usually keep my own thoughts about that to myself. If I've offended anyone, my bad. Hey, how bout them Yanks giving the Rays a tough time? Sox are loving the Yanks right about now.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-09-03 19:55:53
151.   williamnyy23
140 Did you watch the DNC? This is kind of like Dimelo's selective memory with Arod. Obama's speech was light on policy (his whole campaign has been void of specifics) and heavy on digs.

Of course, you are comparing Obama to Palin. That's probably a good startegy because maybe Obama can win that contest. Of course, McCain is running for President and it's beyond me how anyone can make Obama's experience stand up to his.

141 Smart place? I thought so, but then comments like 115 make me think otherwise.

2008-09-03 19:56:39
152.   cult of basebaal

"Stein says that as mayor, Palin continued to inject religious beliefs into her policy at times. "She asked the library how she could go about banning books," he says, because some voters thought they had inappropriate language in them. "The librarian was aghast." That woman, Mary Ellen Baker, couldn't be reached for comment, but news reports from the time show that Palin had threatened to fire Baker for not giving "full support" to the mayor. "

he said, she didn't confirm, as it were, which is which i attach the ""allegedly" to the story.

2008-09-03 19:56:53
153.   tommyl
150 Great game as I said above. As for your slipping, I (and I think several others don't mind). As others have said, I love your posts about music, books and everyday life. So long as the discussion is at our normal level, I see nothing wrong with a little discussion about an event this important. But that's just me, if a majority here don't like it, I'll stop and I apologize.
2008-09-03 19:57:03
154.   Vandelay Industries
150 Ok fine then. I demand to reject that . . . No renounce that . . . No repudiate that . . . Just kidding.
2008-09-03 20:00:17
155.   tommyl
151 William, that's not fair. I made that one comment, but my other comments have been informed, I've even said I respected your opinions. You may disagree with me, but there's no need for an ad hominen attack.
2008-09-03 20:00:36
156.   williamnyy23
147 My positions are objectively wrong? According to whom? You? That kind of argument is why I think anonymous political debates are so meaningless.

149 You can not confuse Liberals with facts? Have I convinved you yet? Maybe we should trade a few more barbs to really sell our ideology.

2008-09-03 20:04:33
157.   williamnyy23
152 Would that Stein be the same man Palin beat to assume the mayorship? You don't think he'd be suffering from a case of sour grapes now do you? Is that really the issue that you are focusing on this election? I would think things like taxes, the war and energy policy would warrant more attention and provided liberals and conservatives with more than enough fodder. Instead, I guess we'll debate banning books and throw in some more Rev. Wright for good measure.
2008-09-03 20:07:45
158.   williamnyy23
155 I am sorry, but 115 was not an intelligent remark. Your baseball posts are usually well reasoned, so that's why I recommended refraining from politics in this forum. Calling Palin an evil vile women isn't exactly going to inspire intelligent debate.
2008-09-03 20:09:33
159.   williamnyy23
Oh looks like we killed a game thread (maybe it was dead already). For the second night, I've descended into he said/she said political discussion, which I usually find to be facile and inane. My apologies to all...if this becomes the norm, I'll do my best to check out of the Banter and return when the desire to tout political ideology abates.
2008-09-03 20:10:47
160.   cult of basebaal
157 is it? i don't know. if she really did try and ban books, then yes, yes it is. however, as i made AMPLY clear, there isn't proof of that at this point, only an allegation. which is why i made the point of using the term "allegedly" when i brought it up ...
2008-09-03 20:18:09
161.   OldYanksFan
Per Pete Abe: UPDATE, 5:56 p.m.: Girardi said that he wanted Mike Mussina to get five more starts, not four. That's good. … Ponson is still starting on Saturday
2008-09-03 20:21:24
162.   Bruce Markusen
This is obviously Alex' site and he can decide for himself whether political commentary should be allowed or disallowed. But I will say this in general. As a baseball fan, I find it offensive when threads like these become overtaken by people who feel, almost as if it were an obsession, the need to make political comments. My goodness, aren't there enough political sites out there for people who want to talk politics? Are these people so insecure about their political beliefs that they have to interject them into sports-related forums at every turn? Call me a funny guy, but I like to talk baseball at baseball sites, not politics, especially when those political issues have nothing to do with the game itself.

This "practice" is one of the things that has hurt Baseball Think Factory, where a small group of political "diehards" repeatedly make efforts to divert baseball discussions into political commentary. They just can't resist making a political swipe at someone, using some of the most forced logic in trying to connect them to baseball.

Frankly, it's insulting to baseball fans who want a simple diversion from the real world of politics and news.

2008-09-03 20:24:24
163.   tommyl
162 Fair enough and I apologize then. I regard the people here as friends and wanted to discuss this with them. If that is intruding on your and other's experiences though I apologize, it won't happen again. OK?
2008-09-03 20:40:52
164.   Vandelay Industries
162 Respectfully noted. However, I believe that this blog rarely devolves into political rants. In fact, almost never. I think the Presidential election and the nature of this election in particular has people on all sides riled up. I suspect things will return to normal shortly. I could really care less about the constant discussions of music and other tangential topics here, but I simply remain silent and wait for it to pass, I simply ask you do the same. I don't post opposition to the topics I don't care to discuss. Politics and Religion hold no singnificance compared to any of the discussions here that do not involve baseball or the New York Yankees. Any topic has the power to offend a group of people. What I enjoy about this place is that the discussion is normally even handed and respectful. Fair?
2008-09-03 20:52:47
165.   Bruce Markusen
Guys, generally folks here are very good at staying away from politics and religion, unlike some other sites. Obviously, I prefer it that way, but that's just my opinion; I'm not a policymaker or a rules enforcer here.
2008-09-03 20:55:27
166.   Vandelay Industries
165 Can I ask you why politics and religion are singled out? There are tangental topics discussed here all the time that are both inane and quite serious. I am not being contrary, just curious.
2008-09-03 20:55:48
167.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
I would think the occasionaly jab of humor would be ok, but I promise to avoid long-winded posts that no one is really interested in...
but can we still make fun of Romney's hair? he's got that Jimmie Johnson/Trent Lott unmovable thing going..fascinating..
2008-09-03 20:58:46
168.   Vandelay Industries
167 And Joe Biden's plugs?
2008-09-03 21:43:31
169.   Max
166 It has nothing to do with inanity or seriousness. Discussion of politics and religion are almost always guaranteed to polarize exchanges between posters and can fracture an otherwise cordial community if not moderated closely.

I've seen such discussions derail forums dedicated to music, college basketball, photography, and even cooking. Discussions of tangential topics like music or TV comedy in these forums is at worst a distraction, and at best a way for visitors to bond over other interests.

I also like getting to know more about the people that make this wonderful site possible and enjoy hearing of their interests, even when I don't share them.

But discussions of politics are just too volatile and too energy consuming. The relatively mild exchanges in tonight's game thread only prove that point -- a few offhand remarks and people are already bickering. My experience is that it doesn't take long before such mild bickering devolves into name-calling and aspersions cast on people's character and morality and intelligence.

Again, you can go to a large number of political forums if you want a discussion or even a round of name calling and exchanges of barbs. Getting your fix here doesn't seem particularly useful and carries very little benefit.

2008-09-03 22:41:35
170.   bob34957
Hey Matt, I was right about Pavano. Although he has been the American Idle, when healthy he , with the Yankee Offense support can help this team win. Not for nothing , he should have sucked it up and played hurt. Better late than never.


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