Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
Tampa Bay Rays V: Too Little, Too Late Edition
2008-09-02 13:53
by Cliff Corcoran
Note: The Bronx Banter blog has moved to
Congratulations to the Rays on their first winning season, playoff berth, and division championship: You've come a long way, baby.

The Yankees are 7-5 against the Rays this year, which is a solid showing against a team that leads them by 12 games in the standings. Sadly, it's done them little good. The Yankees could sweep their remaining six games against Tampa Bay, match their record against third-part opponents, and still finish six games out in the AL East.

We're in an odd stage of the Yankees' season. Best I can tell, just about all of the fanbase and most of the media have come to grips with the reality that the Yankees will miss the postseason for the first time since 1993, but because they're still "just" seven games out of the Wild Card with 26 left to play, the team itself, as well at its broadcasters, need to at least pretend they're still in it. It's true that it ain't over 'til it's over, but the Yankees have to gain one game on the Red Sox over the course of each remaining series to arrive in Boston on September 26 in position to pass Boston with a series win, and even that doesn't account for the second-place team in the AL Central, whom the Yankees also trail in the Wild Card race. It's just not going to happen.

What's left now is saying farewell to Yankee Stadium, preparing for next year--be it by giving Alfredo Aceves a start or two in place of Pavano or Ponson, letting Brett Gardner start in center field, or hoping Hideki Matsui gets on a hot streak to increase his trade value--and Mike Mussina's pursuit of 20 wins, which continues tonight in St. Petersburg, Florida.

Mussina enters tonight's game with 16 wins and will have five starts left afterwards (against the Mariners, Rays, White Sox, Orioles, Blue Jays, and Red Sox). The Yankees have won Mussina's last six starts, but Moose earned the win in just three of them due to late-breaking run support. Still, Mussina's been excellent over that stretch, posting 2.93 ERA and averaging 6 2/3 innings. In fact, over his last 17 starts, Mussina has a 2.92 ERA and has averaged nearly 6 2/3 innings per start. Only once over that stretch has he failed to complete six innings and only once has he allowed more than four runs (both coming in the same game against the Orioles). Still, he has just 9 wins in those 17 starts, due in part to losing scores such as 4-2 (twice), 3-2, and 2-1. That makes four wins in six starts a tall order, and four wins in five starts should he lose tonight extremely unlikely.

Moose's mount opponent tonight is Matt Garza, who has displayed a Verlander-like inconsistency. Over his last nine starts, Garza has held the opposition scoreless four times, including two shutouts. In the other five games, he has allowed 24 runs in 27 1/3 innings. The trend: three of those four scoreless outings came against Toronto. The exception: one of the shutouts was a two-hit, nine-K performance against the Rangers in Arlington. Garza has faced the Yankees once this year, shutting them out over seven innings back on May 12. In his next start, he gave up seven runs in 4 1/3 innings. Such is Garza.

No Excuses

Both Garza and ace Scott Kazmir (who faces Darrell Rasner on Thursday) spent time on the DL early in the season. Carl Crawford and rookie sensation Evan Longoria are on the DL now, with Crawford likely out for the year. Rocco Baldelli missed most of the season, though he's recently returned as Cliff Floyd's platoon partner at DH. Floyd also spent time on the DL earlier in the season, as did Longoria's predecessor/replacement Willy Aybar, All-Star catcher Dioner Navarro, infielder Ben Zobrist (who is currently platooning with Eric Hinske in left field), last year's breakout star Carlos Peña, shortstop Jason Bartlett, and a handful of relievers, among them closer Troy Percival, who is due to return from his third DL stint tonight, and last year's closer Al Reyes, who pitched himself off the team after returning from his DL stint. Beyond that, Crawford was below average when healthy, Bartlett's been a huge disappointment on both sides of the ball, and B.J. Upton is slugging a mere .397 with just 8 homers after slugging .508 with 24 jacks in fewer plate appearances last year.

Tampa Bay Rays

2008 Record: 84-51 (.622)
2008 Pythagorean Record: 79-56 (.583)

Manager: Joe Maddon
General Manager: Andrew Friedman

Home Ballpark (multi-year Park Factors): Tropicana Field (98/100)

Who's Replaced Whom:

Willy Abyar has replaced Evan Longoria (DL) at third base
Justin Ruggiano (minors) has replaced Longoria on the roster
Gabe Gross has replaced Carl Crawford (DL) in the outfield
Rocco Baldelli (DL) has replaced Crawford on the roster
Jason Bartlett (DL) has replaced Reid Brignac (minors)
Fernando Perez (minors) has replaced Jonny Gomes (minors)
Chad Bradford has replaced Gary Glover

25-man Roster:

1B - Carlos Peña (L)
2B - Akinori Iwamura (L)
SS - Jason Bartlett (R)
3B - Willy Aybar (S)
C - Dioner Navarro (S)
RF - Gabe Gross (L)
CF - B.J. Upton (R)
LF - Eric Hinske (L)
DH - Cliff Floyd (L)


R - Rocco Baldelli (DH/OF)
S - Ben Zobrist (LF/IF)
R - Shawn Riggans (C)
R - Justin Ruggiano (OF)
R - Fernando Perez (OF)
L - John Jaso (C)*


L - Scott Kazmir
R - Andy Sonnanstine
R - James Shields
R - Matt Garza
R - Edwin Jackson


R - Troy Percival
R - Dan Wheeler
R - Grant Balfour
L - J. P. Howell
R - Chad Bradford
L - Trever Miller
R - Jason Hammel
R - Juan Salas*

15-day DL: R - Evan Longoria (3B), L - Carl Crawford (LF), R - Jae Kuk Ryu
60-day DL: R - Chad Orvella

*September call-ups

Typical Lineup:

L - Akinori Iwamura (2B)
R - B.J. Upton (CF)
L - Carlos Peña (1B)
L - Cliff Floyd (DH)
S - Willy Aybar (3B)
L - Erik Hinske (LF)
S - Dioner Navarro (C)
L - Gabe Gross (RF)
R - Jason Bartlett (SS)

Comments (152)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-09-02 14:45:14
1.   tommyl
0 You know I don't know what to root for. Do I root for them to win and try to pull of an improbable comeback? or do I root for them to tank a bit so we can play the kids in a lower pressure, yet still major league environment?
2008-09-02 14:50:29
2.   Cliff Corcoran
1 I'd say just stop rooting, it's not worth the heartbreak. It's over. Yes, "root" for them to give Gardner, Aceves etc. increased opportunities, but they shouldn't have to "tank" in order for that to happen.

Tonight, root for Moose.

2008-09-02 16:21:29
3.   cult of basebaal
1 it's not so hard, root for moose's 20th, root for losses in every other game ...
2008-09-02 16:29:20
4.   cult of basebaal
nice to see that the ump has no nostalgia about getting moose his 20th
2008-09-02 16:33:25
5.   randym77
Holy crap, what a catch.
2008-09-02 16:34:25
6.   ms october
that was an effing catch
2008-09-02 16:34:25
7.   Mattpat11
2008-09-02 16:37:56
8.   tommyl
cricket? cricket?
2008-09-02 16:39:49
9.   randym77
Nah, cricket is that game with the bats that look like fraternity paddles.
2008-09-02 16:40:38
10.   williamnyy23
8 My mind is still compressing from the mind-numbing Arod is never clutch nonsense expressed two threads back.
2008-09-02 16:43:59
11.   randym77
Nice play by Damon.

Bad baserunning by the Rays.

2008-09-02 16:44:12
12.   williamnyy23
More reasons to be wary of Girardi:

The following is from the LoHud blog:

What about using Aceves or Hughes?

"We're talking about sending a rookie possibly out there who doesn't have a lot of starts in the big leagues. It's not like we have Cy Young, Steve Carlton, you know, waiting in the wings. If we did make a change, you're talking about youth. They don't have the experience."

2008-09-02 16:45:35
13.   williamnyy23
11 Yes, very nice play by Damon. Say what you will about Damon, but he gives max effort on every play. Damon is one player who I think should be in the mix for 2009.

Hinske is an awful baserunner.

2008-09-02 16:49:29
14.   tommyl
When did we trade Meacham?
2008-09-02 16:50:41
15.   randym77
13 Yeah, I wasn't too keen on the Damon signing. But he won me over early in his first season, when he got to 2B on sheer hustle, when someone dropped an easy popup. And the Yanks were up by 10 in the 8th inning at the time.

And now that I think about it...being a former Red Sox probably helped him on this play. Other outfielders would assume Nady would get it, or it was gone, but Damon's used to playing it off the left field wall. And backing up Manny...

2008-09-02 17:02:33
16.   OldYanksFan
10 Again, ARod's career OPS: 0.967. Career RISP: 0.955. 12 points lower or 1.3%. Unclutch, or the dfinition of average.

But wait! When a 'clutch' player hits with RISP, how did those runners get on? Why does the guy who get a hit with man on 2nd get more credit then the guy who doubled to get to 2nd? And what of leadoff hits. They're not 'clutch', are they? But they're pretty important to scoring, aren't they?

Solo HRs don't help a players RISP, but the tend to score a run. And getting a hit with man on 1st is cool, but not RISP cool.

Stats show (and lets be honest, our eyes too)that ARod has been terrible in the clutch this year. The same stats show he was insane last year.

We know Jeter is valuable because he scors so many runs. ARod, a clean up hitter, has scored 9% more runs then Jeter. 17% more then JD.

I think ARod does have some mental problems in pressure situations. I'll buy that, but they are way, way exaggerated by the press. I mean, it's a story if he takes off his shirt outside, so just imagine when he leaves men on base.

I'm not familiar with the 'clutch' stats posted in the (fan graphs) article. But they seem very one-dimentional.

Career OPS: 0.967
Career RISP: 0.955
Career Leading off: 0.979
Career Runners On: 0.981
Career Bases Loaded: 1.099
Career Hi Leverage: 0.974

2008-09-02 17:08:19
17.   cult of basebaal
regardless of where they actually end up, moose should be credited with strikes on somewhere approaching 8 out of 10 pitches he throws ... just a sheer pleasure to watch.
2008-09-02 17:11:53
18.   cult of basebaal
2008-09-02 17:18:55
19.   cult of basebaal
way to bust it cap'n!
2008-09-02 17:22:21
20.   cult of basebaal
wow. jeter would have been out by about 15 feet. yeesh.
2008-09-02 17:23:33
21.   cult of basebaal
damn upton, grrr.
2008-09-02 17:24:31
22.   cult of basebaal
22 the hell with the rest of you people, we're gonna crack 50 comments if i have to make a comment after every batter!
2008-09-02 17:26:57
23.   cult of basebaal
yeesh, arod was out on that 2-2 pitch ... when do our roboump overlords get hired???
2008-09-02 17:29:48
24.   cult of basebaal
that'll do pig, that'll do ...
2008-09-02 17:31:16
25.   Eirias
Untied? Fancy that.
2008-09-02 17:32:10
26.   cult of basebaal
what the hell did cashman see in craig wilson, pt. II???
2008-09-02 17:32:10
27.   Just fair
I'll add that to my list of things I have never seen before. Holy effin' smokes. What a shot.
2008-09-02 17:38:24
28.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
Ohayo Gozaimasu! Gameday has gone all Linda Blair, shows bottom 4th but pictures Matt Garza pitching to X-Nady..though he already homered...
2008-09-02 17:39:11
29.   randym77
Why does A-Rod do so poorly with a man on 3B and less than two outs? Trying to do too much?
2008-09-02 17:40:41
30.   cult of basebaal
oh, i see ... all it takes is a homerun to bring all the front runners back!


2008-09-02 17:42:06
31.   williamnyy23
16 Actually, Arod hasn't been terrible in the clutch. He has been mediocre (OPS in the low .800s for both RISP and Close and Late). Now, for Arod, mediocre is terrible, but it is amusing that he hasn't even been as bad as some want to make him about to be. Unfortunately, Arod did have a lot of high profile unclutch ABs recently, so that is what sticks in everyone's craw. Of course, if we are going to use the observational method, I would assign Arod a clutch check mark for the bullet double play against the Jays on Saturday. I watched the ABs with my own eyes and think his approach was good and can't imagine hitting the ball much harder. Stats exist to help us cover all the ABs we don't see, but since we saw Arod hit a rocket, shouldn't we ignore the out?

The fan graph's clutch stats are nebulous because they don't define their leverage formula. Also, they don't account for externalities such quality of teams (shouldn't there more leverage in a 3-run game between contenders than a tie game between also rans). Furthermore, they define clutch as not being as good in high leverage as you are overall. That is flawed for several reasons, namely: (1) a hitter could be ridiculous in all situations, but just great in high leverage, rendering them unclutch; and (2) high leverage situations have a much smaller sample than overall, so a blip could skew the stat.

2008-09-02 17:42:11
32.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
A-Rod is the best player in baseball (by a nose over Pujols)..anyone who boos him does not understand baseball. my 2 cents...
2008-09-02 17:43:56
33.   Just fair
Alex almost pulled a Melkbone on that double play ball. Yikes.
2008-09-02 17:46:50
34.   williamnyy23
29 That's a spot where Arod has been bad this year. He only has 39 PAs though, so you have to consider small sample. What is telling to me, however, is Arod only has 2 walks in those situations, suggesting he might be impatient or trying to do too much (which considering the way the offense has been, seems reasonable).

By the way, for his career, Arod has an OPS of 1.012 with a man on third and less than two outs (572 PAs).

2008-09-02 17:48:22
35.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
Os down 10-1 in the 5th to Boston..are they even trying???
2008-09-02 17:49:41
36.   Schteeve
32 I agree. It's why I refuse to talk about A-Rod.
2008-09-02 17:50:15
37.   DarrenF
16 ARod is hitting .309. This is .003 higher than his career average and 11th in the league.

OB% and SLG% rank higher. Fifth in the league and second in the league.

(It's also quite bizarre that OB% and SLG% are suddenly ignored when splits are mentioned.)

So, I think it's safe to assume that the gripe is not with BA, it's with RISP BA. In other words, not the number of hits, but with the distribution of hits.

Right now, he's 100-for-300 with no RISP and 35-for-137 (.255) with RISP. Take 8 hits from category one and move them to category two. That even things out.

Big whoop. It wouldn't hurt, but it wouldn't help much.

Yankees would still be in third place and ARod would still be their best player, by far, and the best 3b in baseball (for what it's worth, Chipper Jones is hitting .184 with RISP and two outs and David Wright is hitting .224 with RISP and two outs).

Switch Pedroia and Cano and the Yankees are in first place.

2008-09-02 17:50:24
38.   randym77
34 I thought about it because the YES announcers were talking about it. And I remembered a couple of years ago, when Michael Kay was all over him for it. Said he was the worst player in the league with a man on third and less than two outs.

Before then, I didn't even know that was a stat anyone kept track of.

2008-09-02 17:51:58
39.   DarrenF
37 I should say, first place in the wild card, not first place in the AL East.
2008-09-02 17:54:32
40.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
37 "Switch Pedroia and Cano and the Yankees are in first place." D'oh!! it's true, and it hurts...
2008-09-02 17:55:25
41.   OldYanksFan
cult of basebaal... you are our 1,000,000th comment!
cult of basebaal... you are our 1,000,001st comment!
cult of basebaal... you are our 1,000,002nd comment!
cult of basebaal... you are our 1,000,003rd comment!
cult of basebaal... you are our 1,000,004th comment!
cult of basebaal... you are our 1,000,005th comment!
cult of basebaal... you are our 1,000,006th comment!
cult of basebaal... you are our 1,000,007th comment!
2008-09-02 17:57:24
42.   cult of basebaal
41 dammit, you should have made each of those their own comment. you know, to pad the stats, as it were, just like arod does! 22
2008-09-02 18:04:29
43.   Eirias
God, why couldn't we have drafted Lincecum?
2008-09-02 18:06:02
44.   cult of basebaal
43 i dunno, because he went 20 spots before us?
2008-09-02 18:07:13
45.   rufuswashere
I was just thinking how much I'm enjoying watching this game until I saw Jeter blow a fly to left with Nady closing in on him. This is is fielding strength, pop flies! Jetes, what gives?
2008-09-02 18:08:17
46.   tommyl
This Moose kid is pretty good.

Also, Giambi beating anyone to the bag? He was downright spry there.

2008-09-02 18:08:29
47.   Eirias
44 In either of the two years before the Giants took him.
2008-09-02 18:08:32
48.   ms october

now don't screw this up for moose with any more half-ass plays.

2008-09-02 18:09:03
49.   randym77
45 I think he was expecting Nady to get it. Just not used to working together, maybe.

No harm done.

2008-09-02 18:09:06
50.   OldYanksFan
Good hands Giambi!
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-09-02 18:09:40
51.   tommyl
43 Why can't we hire his dad to teach pitching mechanics? Yeesh his kid is good.
2008-09-02 18:10:53
52.   cult of basebaal
47 was he eligible? did he declare? was he drafted and didn't sign?
2008-09-02 18:11:28
53.   tommyl
Should we go to a 4-man down the stretch to get Moose an extra start or two?
2008-09-02 18:11:32
54.   OldYanksFan
42 At the bottom of 16 , I posted some of ARod's CAREER stats. Please tell me which one(s) you have a problem with. Myself, I like the 'bases loaded' one.
2008-09-02 18:12:20
55.   tommyl
52 Lincecum was selected by the Chicago Cubs in the 48th round (1,408th overall) of the 2003 MLB Draft, but did not sign.9 He decided to attend college instead, and was selected by the Cleveland Indians in the 42nd round (1,261st overall) upon re-entering the draft in 2005, but once again failed to sign.10 The next year, he was drafted 10th overall by the San Francisco Giants, becoming the first player from the University of Washington to be taken in the first round.7 He signed for a $2.025 million signing bonus on June 30, which at the time was the highest amount the organization had ever paid to any amateur player (until they gave $2.1 million to Angel Villalona a little over a month later).11
2008-09-02 18:12:38
56.   Jeb
Do y'all think this team can get Moose 3 more wins? As a member of the DFA Moose team from 2007, I am happy to eat crow where he is concerned.
2008-09-02 18:13:09
57.   tommyl
Man, Lincecum was ranked behind Hughes going into 2007. Wow.
2008-09-02 18:14:20
58.   OldYanksFan
Useless, non-clutch, stat padding leadoff single by ARod.
2008-09-02 18:15:49
59.   cult of basebaal
55 thanks for the info, i'd thought that was the first time he'd been drafted, since that was the first time i'd heard of him ... still, hard to fault the yanks, he went from 45th round to 10th overall pick in 1 year ... i'd say that's blowing up ...
2008-09-02 18:16:16
60.   ms october
53 well the yanks should at least skip the deadweight after the off-days to get him an extra start - not sure if they can get 2 extra starts
2008-09-02 18:16:23
61.   Jeb
14 Per Baseball reference: "December 5, 1988: [Meacham] Traded by the New York Yankees to the Texas Rangers for Bob Brower"

Apparently Meacham never made the rangers or retired because there are no add'l stats for him.

2008-09-02 18:17:38
62.   cult of basebaal
54 personally, i have a problem with his production in the category of SORMB (strippers over replacement mannish blondes), YMMV.
2008-09-02 18:17:49
63.   Jeb
60 Hey Ms. October, did you enjoy Bama's cakewalk over the kitties from Clemson?
2008-09-02 18:18:00
64.   OldYanksFan
Giambino takes one for the Moose!!!!
2008-09-02 18:18:07
65.   tommyl
61 I was kidding. After the Rays had that idiotic running play at third base I figured Meacham was in charge there.
2008-09-02 18:19:30
66.   tommyl
Damnit, I hate when this team plays the way it should have all year. It makes you realize what could have been, sigh.
2008-09-02 18:20:11
67.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
63 hey Jeb, maybe being dense but...what the bloomin 'ell does your question mean?

62 A-Rod should hook up with Samantha Fox next..

2008-09-02 18:20:31
68.   Jeb
65 Oh, gotcha, I got here late. I'm curious why the Rangers would trade for him and then he never played though. Around the time Meacham came up I remember our other big middle infield prospect was Andre Robertson, another washout...Though Robertson did have the excuse of a bad car wreck.
2008-09-02 18:21:57
69.   Jeb
67 It was an off-topic question about the Alabama/Clemson NCAA football game from Saturday. Clemson was ranked #9 and Bama #25 and Bama just stomped them 31-10 and it really wasn't that close.
2008-09-02 18:22:43
70.   OldYanksFan
ARod's 1,592nd Runs Scored. 42nd on the All-time list.
2008-09-02 18:22:59
71.   cult of basebaal
68 broken necks tend to put a crimp in your style ...
2008-09-02 18:26:07
72.   ms october
63 haha - still seems too early for football - though i was in bama for most of the past two weeks and saw plenty of roll tide and war eagle car flags everywhere!
2008-09-02 18:28:39
73.   randym77
71 But not severed fingers!

2008-09-02 18:30:08
74.   Jeb
72 Then you know how damn hot it's been down here! Did you make it out to the Sloss Furnace "Stokin' the fire BBQ" competition? It was AMAZINGLY good. I've never eaten that much BBQ and also George Sarris from the Fish Market cooked a leg of lamb over a spit that was sheer perfection.
2008-09-02 18:31:46
75.   OldYanksFan
Moose with 99 pitches. One more inning?
2008-09-02 18:32:26
76.   nick
2008-09-02 18:32:34
77.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
69 ah, gotcha. never been a college sports fan, and hate football for the most part so was clueless there! baseball, Sumo and jai alai are the holy trinity!
2008-09-02 18:32:58
78.   cult of basebaal
73 he ought to have become a pitcher, probably would have put some weird movement on the ball. one of the guys on my HS baseball team lost the tip of one of his fingers to a lawn-mower accident ... gave him a nasty sinker.
2008-09-02 18:34:45
79.   Jeb
77 Sumo? Really? I gotta get someone to explain that one to me because it seems like two fat guys in diapers slamming into each other. I realize that's NOT what it is, but that's what it seems like. I've never really gotten Nascar either, but I'm told that if you go see it live you "get it". Is that how sumo wrestling is?
2008-09-02 18:35:15
80.   cult of basebaal
67 i don't know that i've seen a picture of her since like 1987 ... is she still alive???
2008-09-02 18:38:07
81.   tommyl
Man, this RNC video is sort of depressing...
2008-09-02 18:38:39
82.   OldYanksFan
Could Moose be up for Comeback Player of the Year?
2008-09-02 18:41:05
83.   ms october
74 no, sounds good though; i did go to the fish market a lot when i live in birmingham.

sounds like we will see joba tonight.
and i accidently left sportscenter on tonight and kruk was back to the whole joba as 7th/8th inning guy. i guess i am at fault for having that on - but damn are we going to be subjected to this all over again?

2008-09-02 18:42:34
84.   ms october
82 yeah - he will probably get votes, but i would think cliff lee gets it and as well as probably the cy young.
2008-09-02 18:43:05
85.   OldYanksFan
If the BP blows this lead for Moose, I will cry.
2008-09-02 18:45:51
86.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
79 no idea of the appeal of Nascar but Sumo is amazing.. check this our  
the history and pageantry of Sumo really make it special..
2008-09-02 18:46:29
87.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
83 how does John Kruk have a job on tv??
2008-09-02 18:50:37
88.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
81 brave man to subject yourself to that...
2008-09-02 18:51:46
89.   williamnyy23
68 Meacham was simply cut by the Rangers. They really didn't give up much in Brower, so it seems like a trade in which each team jetisoned their disappointments. After being cut by Texas, Meacham played two more minor league seasons for Pittsburgh and KC before retiring.
2008-09-02 18:52:02
90.   williamnyy23
Welcome back, Joba!
2008-09-02 18:55:00
91.   ms october
90 welcome back indeed - nice to see ya out there joba!!
2008-09-02 18:56:17
92.   Jeb
Hey did you guys see Johnny Damon was nominated for the Roberto Clemente award? I hope he gets it. I just finished the Clemente book by David Maraniss and it's great.
2008-09-02 18:57:12
93.   williamnyy23
If it was up to me, Moose would throw 5 innings every 4th day, followed by Joba for two and Mo for two.
2008-09-02 18:58:11
94.   Jeb
89 Yeah, I don't remember seeing Brower do much. We had lots of little known guys in that era.

My first yankee game was in Baltimore and I saw Chuck Cary (remember him!?) throw a 2-0 shutout and Rags got the save. Donnie had a couple of hits.

2008-09-02 18:58:17
95.   Mattpat11
Final verdict on Mussina?

Also, do you reconfigure the schedule at the end of the year to try and get him 20?

2008-09-02 18:58:44
96.   ms october
anyone want the yanks to take a flyer on baldelli?

personally, i would like the yanks to at least consider doing what the red sox do with all their pitchers but especially the younger ones with innings limits - where they put them on the dl in the middle of the season with a hangnail or whatnot to keep their innings down. i'm not sure it's the best course of action to start joba in relief again and have him make the transition to starting in the middle of the season again next year.

2008-09-02 18:59:11
97.   nick
I wanna see Joba finish this game, unless it's a save situation....if he goes one inning plus one pitch I'm gonna be irked-
2008-09-02 18:59:24
98.   williamnyy23
Hello Michael Jack Schmidt.
2008-09-02 18:59:37
99.   pistolpete
Just call him A-Pad. ;-)
2008-09-02 18:59:53
100.   cult of basebaal
stat padder ...
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-09-02 18:59:57
101.   Chyll Will
Gawd, that was so un-clutch...
2008-09-02 19:00:09
102.   nick
95--I think if he gets to 19 via standard operating procedures, then you do what you can to get him an extra shot or two
2008-09-02 19:01:33
103.   Mattpat11
Hello Mr. Schmidt
2008-09-02 19:02:21
104.   williamnyy23
Schmidt was/is one of my favorite non-Yankees (along with Brett, which is ironic for a Yankees fan). Each one just looked liked a ball player (and had great road uniforms!).
2008-09-02 19:02:52
105.   Jeb
96 You know, I like Rocco, but I'm afraid that it's more because of his name than anything else. He just sounds like a ballplayer.

But the problem is I don't think he could play anywhere unless they jettison Abreu and he gets hurt a lot and has some chronic medical issues that will impact his playing time.

2008-09-02 19:05:33
106.   Jeb
104 remember in game 5 in '77 when Brett slugged Nettles? The funny thing is that no one got tossed...That sure as hell wouldn't happen today.
2008-09-02 19:12:59
107.   Max
Just checked out the latest version of MLB's app on iPhone...really nice to have Gameday along with videos in a high quality presentation on a phone, very slick. Too bad there's not much use in tracking the games obsessively at this point, apart from hoping for Moose to win 20.

Of course, the team loving the events tonight the most is the Red Sox, as the WS, Twins and Rays are all losing.

2008-09-02 19:15:03
108.   Just fair
The Rollin Tides in here must have all shed a tear for the Vols last night.
2008-09-02 19:18:11
109.   Jeb
108 I mentioned that to a friend at work today and he said he liked to see the SEC do well except when they're playing Bama.

I told him "FUCK THAT. it's tennessee! I want to see Fat Phil and the pumpkin wearing vols lose every game!"

Bear in mind that Phil Fulmer had a lot to do with Alabama being put on probation in 2001.

2008-09-02 19:20:02
110.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
more humid than the Congo out today, McCain "Ready to serve" after offering the Veep to someone he met ONCE, Japan moving on to its 13th Prime Minister in last 10 years, and Red Sox offense looking unstoppable..thank Buddha for this Yankee victory today, we needed it!
2008-09-02 19:23:12
111.   cult of basebaal
109 i think phil fulmer is speaking at the RNC ... uhhhh, as we speak ... as it were ...
2008-09-02 19:23:52
112.   williamnyy23
110 Without wading too much into politics, I like McCain's VP pick because it represents a wing of the party/country with which McCain needs to have a closer association. I think one Senator is enough for any ticket. I am also not worried about Palin's lack of experience because quite frankly it isn't much less than Obama's. Ironically, the Dem ticket has the more qualified candidate batting second. more politics, but I figured I'd give my 2 cents since you waded into it.

2008-09-02 19:25:14
113.   Just fair
108 That's funny. I come from a long line of Irish Alum so my allegiance is with them. The only time I root for Alabama is when I'm watching Forrest Gump. : )
I did have a friend from Tennessee who would always wax poetic about the insanity surrounding SEC football. That I can dig.
2008-09-02 19:26:04
114.   williamnyy23
How's this for irony, I have this unsettling confident feeling that the Yankees will sweep in TB, and I don't want them too!
2008-09-02 19:26:34
115.   Just fair
Whoops. Jeb, see 113.
2008-09-02 19:31:19
116.   williamnyy23
From the files of the best deals you don't make: Jarrod Washburn was 0-5 with a 5.45 ERA in the month of August.

So, at least the Yankees didn't trade anything of value or even simply saddle themselves with a bad contract for 2009. And then you wonder why the Mariners are so bad?

2008-09-02 19:31:25
117.   Jeb
113 Ah the golden domers....our white whale. Did you know that Alabama has only beaten the Irish once out of 6-7 times? Bear Bryant was o-fer against them.
2008-09-02 19:31:29
118.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
112 yeah, but..he met her once..ONCE!! sorry, but the country knows a lot more abotu Obama than this woman..McCain is 72 with a history of cancer..partisanship aside, amI wrong in finding this a bit odd and frightening??
2008-09-02 19:31:30
119.   tommyl
114 Wait, william now you're an optimist? Has the world gone mad?!
2008-09-02 19:32:27
120.   cult of basebaal
112 and here i thought it was always the democrats who were the secessionists ...
2008-09-02 19:33:20
121.   Jeb
116 I think the mariners are so bad because they overpay for guys like Betre and Washburn, and overtrade for Eric Bedard. And then they demand the sky for Washburn. I hope they like paying his salary.

By the way, Palin scares me a little.

2008-09-02 19:34:42
122.   williamnyy23
With Joba's innings being so low, the Yankees are looking at having to put him back in the pen for two months next year. Instead of doing that, I'd like them to at least consider having Joba throw about 40 innings in Arizona, give him April off (basically start his ST in mid-March) and then have him join the rotation full-time in early May.
2008-09-02 19:35:17
123.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
121 Beltre not a bad player..Washburn a waste..and Carlos Silva?? too bad, Mariners my favorite non-Yankee team...wonder if they go all out for Cashman?
2008-09-02 19:35:24
124.   Jeb
122 that's a good plan for him.
2008-09-02 19:36:57
125.   williamnyy23
Mussina wins...Mike Mussina winnnnnns!
2008-09-02 19:37:26
126.   Jeb
By the way, assuming the Yanks don't make the post-season, who does everyone want to win the series?

Part of me says the Brewers but I am worried that they are hurting our future by overpitching CC

The cynic in may says Boston because that would make the Steinbrenners start printing money to hand it out.

2008-09-02 19:37:28
127.   Chyll Will
119 To be fair, William is only against misplaced optimism. How that relates to this, I'm not exactly sure, but that much I'm sure... now me defending William... well, I am mad as you all know >;)
2008-09-02 19:38:03
128.   Mattpat11
Lets get three more for Moose now.
2008-09-02 19:38:06
129.   Just fair
10 games back over 500. woo-hoo.
2008-09-02 19:38:33
130.   ms october
moose! (but no moose stew :})
still on the path for 20.

nice to see joba and giese out there too.

122 i'd be okay with that too.

2008-09-02 19:38:44
131.   Jeb
123 Beltre's not bad, but he's WAY overpaid after a monster season. I think that a lot of people smelled a steroids rat, but he got his coin anyway.
2008-09-02 19:39:40
132.   williamnyy23
118 Who cares how well they know each other? VP's are selected more for what part of the country they are from than what policies they advocate. Quite frankly, I find it refreshing that McCain would turn to someone outside the Washington loop. Palin is the only person in this race with Executive experience whose reality isn't defined by the halls of the U.S. Senate. I am not sure what's so frightening about that, especially if you don't find Obama's lack of experience frightening.
2008-09-02 19:40:08
133.   OldYanksFan
Maybe I'm mistaken, but this looked a LOT like a real Yankees game. Where has this team been all year?
2008-09-02 19:40:43
134.   williamnyy23
119 It might actually be pessimism though because I want the Rays to beat out the Sox. Ultimately, however, I am a realist, and looking at the Rays lineup and how poorly they played, I have a feeling the Yankees will take all three.
2008-09-02 19:41:14
135.   cult of basebaal
131 he might be the exact opposite of that ... he had a bad knee during that season, didn't get it fixed until afterwards, the word (even during that year) was that it forced him to stay back on everything, whereas normally he tends to jump and get out on his front foot ...
2008-09-02 19:41:42
136.   OldYanksFan
131 Never a good idea to buy high. Not when you're high, but when the goods are at a peak.
2008-09-02 19:45:03
137.   williamnyy23
133 The Yankees are 20-9 in Moose's outing, so this game has been there all season every 5th day. It's the other 4 days that have been the problem.
2008-09-02 19:49:12
138.   tommyl
132 Well, I disagree with every single policy position she has. She's under investigation for abuse of power, shall I go on.

Also, she wants to kill polar bears.

2008-09-02 19:54:00
139.   williamnyy23
138 That's fine...disagreeing with every policy position is a legitimate reason to be frightened. I am frightened by Obama's policies too. The truth is both Palin and Obama both have little experience, but only one is heading a ticket. Of course, I am one who believes philosophy is more important than experience, even though the latter is important.

As for the abuse of power and the killing of polar bears, well, I could respond to that, but this is a baseball site and I promised no more politics, which I will stick to from this point forward! I promise!

2008-09-02 20:00:35
140.   Hugh Jorgan
Sox fans say thanks, keep it up.
2008-09-02 20:12:54
141.   tommyl
Joe Lieberman is a backstabbing, petty little man. So far, the DNC to me was all about positives, hope, change, new policies. This RNC seems to be all about scaring people away from Obama and mumbling crap that doesn't make any sense. It just seems tired and old to me. It'd also help if the people in the audience weren't all white and older.
2008-09-02 20:13:18
142.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
139 one more please! Palin has "experience"..being mayor of a town of 6000 people, then 20 months as governonr of Alaska..sorry, I am not an Obama supporter but his record is MUCH more impressive. Also, McCain showed very questionable judgement in choosing someone he does not know..McCain/Palin is scary for so many reasons I...ok, only baseball now! I promise too!! :)
2008-09-02 20:13:47
143.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
141 Hear, Hear. Lieberman is revolting..
2008-09-02 20:16:24
144.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
oh yeah, Free Amy Goodman! and check out the Veterans for Peace group who have a lot to say about McCain's fitness to serve..
2008-09-02 20:32:04
145.   3rd gen yankee fan
Buddha likes the Yankees? Sweet.
2008-09-02 20:49:08
146.   williamnyy23
141 Spoken like a true partisan. Something tells me Republicans will have the exact opposite opinion of the two conventions. At least the Republicans don't have a ticket of all men...don't the Dems know that women make up half the country? :)

142 OK fine...the town and state may be small, but she still has executive experience. Obama has one half term as a U.S. Senator and 7 years as a State Senator. Why does that impress you? What about Obama's record is impressive? What's more, the election is between McCain and Obama, so the experience contest isn't even close. Just ask Joe Biden...there are plenty of audio clips from this past winter in which he calls into question Obama's qualifications.

As for not knowing her, once again, I don't see how that matters. He made a selection that complement him very well...I don't see the value in picking another senator without a recent link to the real world.

143 You are wearing the partisan hate now too? What is so revolting about a man who bucks party lines to support what he believes? Lieberman is an excellent advocate for McCain, which is why I think Dems like yourself find him so revolting.

144 That's like saying check out a Red Sox blog for objective analysis of the Yankees :)

2008-09-02 20:51:13
147.   monkeypants
142 "ok, only baseball now! I promise too!! :) "

see 143 and 144

Cripes...I take a week or so off from the Banter and come back to find it has turned into political discussion board. Not meaning to single out Tokyo...those were only the most recent posts.

2008-09-02 20:52:32
148.   monkeypants
147 Oops, I spoke too soon 146 .
2008-09-02 20:57:54
149.   williamnyy23
148 It's hard to not respond when the comments are so harsh. I am just trying to provide a balance...believe me, I'd be more than happy to not even dabble into politics.
2008-09-02 21:04:06
150.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
147 148 apologies for that, i promise to not slip again! Back to the more important things at hand... who DO we root for down the stretch?? I say the bad blood and would be a good lesson for HankHal on how young pitching really is the way you win...
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-09-02 21:13:50
151.   monkeypants
149 I know what you mean. In my business I have plenty of colleagues who state blithely the most inflammatory political statements as if they are received truths. Then you're in a bind--bite your tongue and keep the peace, but lend tacit approval, or say something and look out. I come here to try to escape the typical partisan bickering.

150 Oh heck, I'll root for the Rays. To be honest, I've lost a good bit of interest now that things have picked up at work.

2008-09-02 21:29:29
152.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
151 again, apologies for that slip-up. I too come to the Banter to escape all that (in my environment over here the Americans I meet are 98% on one side, which is polar opposite to my views..can be difficult!

anyways, a Rays-Cubs WS would be awesome..

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