Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
Sweet Sixteen?
2008-08-12 14:05
by Cliff Corcoran

The Yankees' last victory was Mike Mussina's 15th of the season. Now, after a four-game losing streak, Mikey Moose is back to try to make it sweet sixteen and save the sad sack Yanks from slipping into the cellar (or shake them from their slumber, so to speak). To break this bummer, he'll have to beat Nick Blackburn who takes the ball for the bad guys.

The Yanks have faced Blackburn twice this year, once they beat him badly, touching him up for six runs on seven hits (including an Alex Rodriguez homer) in just 1 2/3 innings. The other time, they just broke his nose. Blackburn has a 2.25 ERA in three starts since last facing the Yanks, and I can't imagine he's thrilled to see them again, no matter how poorly they've been playing.

Speaking of which, what's the deal with Robinson Cano? Over the past week or so I've noticed a number of ground balls to both his left and right scoot past him when I was convinced he was at least going to knock them down. As recently as a month or so ago, Cano was one of the best defensive second baseman in the game, and it's quite possible that his fine play has created unrealistic expectations on my part (certainly most if not all of the grounders of which I speak would have required above average to great plays to turn them into outs, but it seems Cano had been making those plays until recently), but what appeared to be one or two well-placed hits "past a lunging Cano" (note: he's not diving) a week or so ago now seem to be regular occurrences. Perhaps not coincidentally, Cano has hit just .222/.276/.352 since the Yankees' eight-game winning streak was snapped in Boston. This team has a lot of problems right now, and that has allowed what seems to be a lackluster effort on Cano's part to go largely unnoticed, but it's worth keeping and eye on and, if real, needs to be addressed by Joe Girardi and his coaching staff.

Johnny Damon is back in the lineup and in center field tonight. Jason Giambi is back in the lineup and at DH. Wilson Betemit plays first base. Melky Cabrera rides pine. As always, Jose Molina catches Mussina.

Untitled Meanwhile, the Red Sox picked up Paul Byrd from the Indians for a player to be named later. The roughly league-average, contact-pitching Byrd will replace struggling rookie Clay Buchholz (0-5, 7.42 ERA in six starts since being recalled in early July) in the rotation. Over that same stretch, Byrd, who is a free agent after the season, has gone 4-0 with a 1.80 ERA in five starts, but the Yankees didn't bother to put a waiver claim on him, allowing him to slip through to the Red Sox. Bri-Bri, you got some splain' to do.

Comments (416)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-08-12 15:42:23
1.   tommyl
0 See the last thread where we determined that Paul Byrd might actually be a better CF than Melky has been lately.
2008-08-12 15:49:47
2.   OldYanksFan
And so the story is told.
2008-08-12 16:08:12
3.   Cliff Corcoran
Also, Freddy Garcia just signed with the Tigers, not that I expect much to come of that.
2008-08-12 16:30:43
4.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
off for some soba noodles and grilled eel down in Kyoto for a few laptop, am hoping to come back and find the Yanks only 5 back of the Rays, ready for a September push! Let's Go YANKEES!
2008-08-12 16:32:23
5.   cult of basebaal
0 dude, screw byrd ... we've got the next syd finch ... from petey:

UPDATE, 7:24 p.m.: Phil Hughes is underway for Scranton. 1-2-3 first inning, 12 pitches. He's throwing 103 with a 99-mph slider and now has a knuckleball.

2008-08-12 16:34:55
6.   cult of basebaal
and check out the photos of tonite's game over on Thunder Thoughts ... somehow, pavano is growing a 5 O'Clock shadow mustache that makes him seem a bigger douche than we already we he is ...
2008-08-12 16:37:32
7.   dianagramr
Boston just laid a 10-spot on the Rangers in the 1st inning ...

all against Scott Feldman .... 7 hits (2 HR), 2 BB and 1 costly error

2008-08-12 16:48:47
8.   rbj
Wonderfully worded, perfect paragraph, Cliff.

And no Byrd in Boston can match a Moose in Minnesota.

2008-08-12 16:55:37
9.   cult of basebaal
7 wow, red sox announcers just said it was a 51 pitch inning for feldman ... paging Dr. Jobe, Dr. Frank Jobe, courtest phone please ...
2008-08-12 16:56:00
10.   OldYanksFan
Cano needs a severe beating about the head and shoulders. He has been terrible all around. Seems to be dogging it on the field and on the basepaths. Is he injured? Or God forbid, is he set for life?

Unfortunately, althought ARod and Giambi have the teams best numbers, the 'unclutchiness' has been so extreme, that between the 2 of them, they have killed out season.

2008-08-12 16:59:59
11.   3rd gen yankee fan
0 Re: Cano, the joke in our house has been that he's been thinkin about Doritos:

2008-08-12 17:01:03
12.   cult of basebaal
10 i'd say there's more than enough blame to go around for almost everyone except for JD, Moose and Mo (and Nady, but he hasn't been here enough ... and probably Matsui, too)
2008-08-12 17:01:12
13.   williamnyy23
7 Big deal. It was against Scott Feldman. What did you expect? Seven innings and two runs? Maybe against a minor league lineup, but this is the majors.
2008-08-12 17:05:03
14.   williamnyy23
12 I agree with that trio being the only blameless Yankees. I'd add Joba to the mix too, but if he misses the final two months, he'd lose the exemption (even though injuries are beyond a player's control).
2008-08-12 17:07:11
15.   ms october
6 yes, in the discussion on levels of douchness, he is certainly a total douche
guess steven white's fall is complete - at the top of the thunder thoughts blod it said he was released

10 i really do wonder if he is injured - he was making a lot of really nice plays in the field earlier in the year when his hitting was completely in the crapper. maybe after he cooled off after his asb hot streak he got really frustrated - as i have seen him throw his helmet and take a few swipes at the cups in the dugout several times lately - and that has carried over to his fielding. so obviously i am not sure, but i don't discount that he may be hurt.

2008-08-12 17:07:35
16.   OldYanksFan
12 Not excusing the others, but to see then numbers the Big 2 have put up and the look and RISP/Close and Late, it really seems off. I hold Jeter at fault simply because as our #2 batter, behind a JD that's having a great year, he has killing and not added to many rallies.

Like you said, near everyone stinks this year. But we do look to ARod and Jetes to lead and succeed, and they have not. You can't have your #2, #4 and #5 batters all stink with men on base.

2008-08-12 17:10:06
17.   Max
Why weren't Giles or Byrd blocked? Were I more conspiratorially minded, I'd suspect Cash was angling for a position with the Red Sox next year, given the rumors of Lucchino's departure and Theo's assumption of complete control.

(yes, I know it's ludicrous, but it's been a miserable day wading through all the "Yanks are doomed" blog posts, including here on the Banter...)

2008-08-12 17:11:49
18.   rbj
Good thing Joe rested Damon last night. Would've hated to have had a leadoff HR last night.
2008-08-12 17:11:59
19.   Just fair
I told you I was ok yesterday, coach. Nice
2008-08-12 17:12:00
20.   williamnyy23
Could Damon make Girardi look even worse. That HR exposes the folly of Girardi. I wonder if any writers will have the courage to ask Joe if he is ready to admit he was dead wrong?
2008-08-12 17:12:31
21.   ms october
take that manager joe from jd
2008-08-12 17:12:31
22.   cult of basebaal
hey look, our CF hit a homerun ... that seems such a foreign thing to say
2008-08-12 17:12:33
23.   randym77
Jeff Karstens gave up two home runs (so far) to the Dunn-less Reds. His ERA is up to 1.43. And his OPS is down to .800.

I guess the 0.00 ERA and 1.000 OPS couldn't last forever. :)

2008-08-12 17:13:19
24.   cult of basebaal
19 twins announcers totally buying girardi's story saying JD was "banged up yesterday"


2008-08-12 17:17:14
25.   cult of basebaal
bobby abreu totally continuing his push towards type A free agent status. Go, Lemmiwinks, GO!!!
2008-08-12 17:19:11
26.   rbj
2008-08-12 17:19:15
27.   Just fair
Man on 1st. Pavlov comes to mind.
But that's not how I thought it would go down.
2008-08-12 17:19:59
28.   williamnyy23
After the Damon HR, the Yankees pick up right where they left off.
2008-08-12 17:20:26
29.   cult of basebaal
25 arod totally continuing his push to take the heat off the 2008 yankees by sucking so hard down the stretch that everyone blames him instead of the rest of the team ... sheesh.
2008-08-12 17:22:22
30.   randym77
24 Why wouldn't they? To believe otherwise, they'd have to assume a manager sat his best hitter for the likes of Melky Cabrera.
2008-08-12 17:22:50
31.   cult of basebaal
30 touche
2008-08-12 17:23:33
32.   williamnyy23
16 As frustrating as it is to watch, I can't blame Jeter for being in decline. I do, however, blame Girardi for failing to realize that batting Jeter between his more productive hitters was a recipe for low production. We've discussed it here for months, but the lineup needed a shakeup a while ago. Girardi's stubborness has been a key ingredient in the Yankees demise.
2008-08-12 17:24:32
33.   cult of basebaal
well, if moose is going to get those pitches all night, this ought to be a quick game.
2008-08-12 17:25:15
34.   ms october
too bad molina can't hit just even a lick - he really knows what he is doing as the backstop
2008-08-12 17:25:39
35.   cult of basebaal
you see pudge, greatest defensive catcher ever, when your throw is on target you actually have a chance to throw people out ...
2008-08-12 17:25:55
36.   rbj
Resign Molina for BUC for 2009.
2008-08-12 17:26:51
37.   ms october
33 true - and the twins announcers are a bit put out with the pitches moose is getting
2008-08-12 17:26:58
38.   cult of basebaal
36 ummmm, he's signed through 2009.
2008-08-12 17:30:49
39.   rbj
38 Good. There's been such a revolving door of BUCs I can't keep up with who's signed for how long.
2008-08-12 17:33:53
40.   cult of basebaal
grrr ... c'mon nady
2008-08-12 17:35:10
41.   ms october
at least the double plays are getting more creative than just a routine 6-4-3
2008-08-12 17:35:11
42.   cult of basebaal
robbie's back to being ROTTEN ...
2008-08-12 17:35:58
43.   Just fair
Still not the 6-4-3 or 4-6-3 I had in mind. It's still early, though. grrrr......
2008-08-12 17:40:09
44.   williamnyy23
42 For the first time since he joined the team, I am open to trading Cano this off season. When he is hot, there is no one better, and when he is interested, no one plays the position as well. Unfortunately, he is so wildly inconsistent in the field and at the plate that it severely diminishes his value. If the Yankees conclude that an attitude adjustment is in order, Cano very well could be on the block.
2008-08-12 17:40:37
45.   DarrenF
18 Girardi is a genius. See what a well-rested Damon can do?
2008-08-12 17:44:25
46.   williamnyy23
It's pretty amazing when you think about it, but the Yankees really only have one consistent two-way player. Except for Arod, no one on the Yankees is at least an above average defender and offensive player. That's pretty telling.

You can see that trade-off with Damon. He hits a HR, but then fails to catch a ball he should have and allows a runner to take third on a Sac Fly.

A suicide squeeze? Does MLB still allow those? Maybe Girardi should take notes.

2008-08-12 17:45:13
47.   pistolpete
44 I maintain he's fixable — maybe just float his name to the papers...?

Then again, do these guys even care if they get traded..?

2008-08-12 17:46:02
48.   Just fair
Where can one find a defintion of Sackflie? It this a new thing in baseball? : )
2008-08-12 17:48:24
49.   randym77
Cano this season is just inexplicable.

But I'm not sure we do better on the free agent market.

Maybe it was a mistake for the Yanks to sign him to a big contract. He might feel he doesn't have to work hard any more.

2008-08-12 17:50:21
50.   pistolpete
Don't look now, Texas closes the gap to 12-6. Wouldn't that be something...?
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-08-12 17:52:29
51.   OldYanksFan
I missed it. Did JD blow a catch in CF? If so, no runs would have scored?
2008-08-12 17:54:31
52.   randym77
One of the PTBNLs in the Dunn deal is Micah Owings. The guy it was rumored we were getting for Randy Johnson a couple of years ago (but we didn't).
2008-08-12 17:55:04
53.   williamnyy23
51 Yes...he did. The leadoff line drive was catchable, but Damon froze on the liner.

Before someone suggests that Damon cost the team one more run than he produced, the reality is that Damon isn't replacing Melky...Betemit is.

2008-08-12 17:56:24
54.   OldYanksFan
A partial tidbit from the Sox boxscore
1st - D Ortiz homered to right, J Drew and D Pedroia scored.
1st - D Ortiz homered to right, J Drew and D Pedroia scored.

That's not a mistake. 2 - 3 run HRs for Papi in the FIRST inning.

2008-08-12 17:57:58
55.   pistolpete
12-7, still in the top of the 5th with one out. Rangers making it a game yet.
2008-08-12 17:58:54
56.   OldYanksFan
[53} As I've said before, taking Melkdud out of CF weakens us defensively at BOTH LF and CF. This for Betemin's bat over Melky's. It's got to be close to a wash, but we are desparate.
2008-08-12 18:00:03
57.   randym77
51 Kubel hit it right at him, and he misread it off the bat. I don't think Melky would have read it any better, but he might have gotten to it faster or dived for it. (Of course, it might have gotten past him if he dived for it. At least Damon kept it in front of him.)

Dunno if no runs would have scored. Kind of hard to say how the inning would have gone after that.

2008-08-12 18:01:37
58.   OldYanksFan
Actually, our best defensive OF is JD in LF, Melkdud in CF and Nady in RF, with Abreu at DH. That's an upgrade in all 3 positions (at not a small one either).
2008-08-12 18:03:15
59.   rbj
49 I think the Yankees need to get Larry Bowa back. He was able to get on Cano's case, and he didn't have a windmill while coaching third.
2008-08-12 18:03:18
60.   randym77
Holy crap, the Rangers just might do it.
2008-08-12 18:04:22
61.   pistolpete
60 12-10, I love it. Sox fans probably kicked back with a beer after that first inning. I'm imagining a lot of swearing on their forums right now.
2008-08-12 18:08:38
62.   OldYanksFan
66 112 career avg
38 060 partial 2008
51 081 2008 projected

Oh WILLIAM!!!!!!!!!
Would you like to tell us all what at 26% decrease in BBs AND at the same time a 28% decrease in strikeouts means?

Wow! 12-10 Boston

2008-08-12 18:09:04
63.   Paul in Boston
Is Jeter cooked? Boy he looks old these days.
2008-08-12 18:13:19
64.   pistolpete
14-10. Papi with the safety.
2008-08-12 18:13:38
65.   Just fair
Gomez is a smooth mover out there. Has anyone here actually seen Austin Jackson play?
2008-08-12 18:16:14
66.   Alex Belth
I don't know if Jeter is cooked but I certainly think he's declining. I could see him having one or two more seasons where he fares better than he has this year, but I also wouldn't be shocked if he just keeps getting worse, and winds up a .280/.330/.390 guy.

Man, these guys are tough to watch offensively right now. Blackburn has a nice sinker though.

2008-08-12 18:17:51
67.   Alex Belth
Jesus H! Meachum, you putz! That's a huge error.

No WAY they score now.

2008-08-12 18:18:13
68.   pistolpete
66 Maybe a day off here & there? Has he had even two this year?
2008-08-12 18:18:22
69.   ms october
that baggie or whatever the hell they call it is stupid
2008-08-12 18:18:31
70.   Paul in Boston
Why didn't abreu score?
2008-08-12 18:18:37
71.   williamnyy23
62 I think it means that Jeter has been hacking away all season, just as we've discussed from very early on. I also can't help but think that Jeter's bad habits have rubbed off on Melky and Cano, who were both hack happy to begin with. After all, if the Captain isn't patient, why should they be.

The Twins were giving the Yankees the run, but Meacham holds Abreu. Even the Yankees 3rd base coach has performed horribly. This has really be an organization-wide effort.

2008-08-12 18:18:54
72.   ChuckM
How much of it is Cano being stubborn and Girardi and the staff being unable to get through to some of the younger guys? It's been brought up on numerous occasions here how Melky keeps doing the same dumb crap (sliding into first) over and over. After awhile some of that has to be put on the staff, no?


2008-08-12 18:19:06
73.   cult of basebaal
67 can meacham EVER get the fucking call right?

he HAS to get the axe this offseason.

2008-08-12 18:19:33
74.   Just fair
Throw it to the backstop, Blackburn. Please.
2008-08-12 18:20:23
75.   Alex Belth
Abreu was held up by Meachum. But the throw went into second, so Abreu would have scored easily. Meachum held Abreu but when he saw the throw going to second he told Abreu to go, but Abreu wasn't looking at him any more.

Nady doubles, Giambi, a dead duck at home, scores, throw not handled by the catcher.

2008-08-12 18:20:26
76.   Just fair
Even better. : ) Atta boy, X.
2008-08-12 18:20:27
77.   ms october
67 thankfully nady is one yankee who believes in rbis
2008-08-12 18:20:45
78.   pistolpete
C'mon Nady, it's up to you — Lazy Bones on deck.
2008-08-12 18:20:52
79.   williamnyy23
Meacham is incredible...he sends Giambi into an easy out, but holds Abreu when the throw was coming into second base. If not for a bad throw, G-bomb is out.
2008-08-12 18:21:17
80.   ChuckM
Jesus H. Christ. Meacham tries to make up for the Abreu muff and almost gets Giambi throw out. I miss Larry Bowa more than ever...
2008-08-12 18:21:19
81.   randym77
67 Nady begs to differ.
2008-08-12 18:21:24
82.   rbj
Yankees really need Bowa back.

And Giambi scores from first on a double?! Yankees gotta win now.

2008-08-12 18:22:03
83.   cult of basebaal
74 that's TWO blown decisions in a row, meacham, you owe the X-Man AND Nick Punto a coke, or a steak, or a blowjob or something.

you're as bad at your job as any coach i've ever seen.

2008-08-12 18:23:58
84.   OldYanksFan
Old George Steinbrenner needs to demote Meacham to single A.

And Meacham strikes again! But we get lucky!

71 I would agree 1000%, except Jetes #P/PA is almost exactly at his career average. I guess he's also had some super long ABs? Doesn't make sense. LESS first pitch hitting? Doesn't seem possible.

2008-08-12 18:26:28
85.   pistolpete
Heh, 14-11. What's the record for most runs in a ML game again?
2008-08-12 18:28:10
86.   rbj
85 26-23 Chicago vs. Philadelphia on August 25, 1922 is one candidate.
2008-08-12 18:31:09
87.   OldYanksFan
14-12 in Boston, Texas with 2nd and 3rd, NO out!
2008-08-12 18:32:01
88.   Just fair
Hughes' line tonight.
ip h r er bb k
5.1 3 2 2 1 4
2008-08-12 18:32:12
89.   OldYanksFan
Sac fly. 14-13 in Boston, Texas with Man on 3rd, ONE out!
2008-08-12 18:33:38
90.   randym77
Good grief. It's a football score in Fenway.
2008-08-12 18:34:04
91.   OldYanksFan
TIED INJ BOSTON!!!!!!!!!!!!
2008-08-12 18:34:54
92.   OldYanksFan
Another hit! 1st and 3rd, 1 out, 14-14!
2008-08-12 18:35:05
93.   williamnyy23
84 I addressed that on a different thread. Patience isn't defined by how many pitches you take, but by what pitches you swing at. Jeter may be seeing the same number of pitches, but it seems clear that his is swinging at more bad ones (and the same is true of Melky and Cano).
2008-08-12 18:35:07
94.   pistolpete
91 HA!
2008-08-12 18:37:20
95.   OldYanksFan
Sac fly. TEXAS UP 15-14. NICE!
2008-08-12 18:38:22
96.   OldYanksFan
Inning ovaH. Going to the bottom of the 6th, 15-14 Texas. It's a battle of the Shitty Bullpens!
2008-08-12 18:38:51
97.   monkeypants
84 I think that it's pretty clear Jeter is not hacking more than he always did anyway. Rather, he is simply not as good at being Jeter this season, whether because of injury or decline or both. He's K-ing less, so he is making more contact but weaker contact (ground ball rate up, line drive rate down). I expect that he is walking less because he is being challenged more in the zone.
2008-08-12 18:39:59
98.   dianagramr
268 pitches thrown in Boston through 5 and a half innings.
2008-08-12 18:40:52
99.   monkeypants
93 But if he is swinging at more bad pitches, how does he end up with same number of pitches per plate appearance? The numbers don't seem to add up.
2008-08-12 18:41:13
100.   dianagramr
Our favorite Texas reliever, Warner Madrigal, is now pitching (he finally got a haircut)
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-08-12 18:42:07
101.   rbj
Imagine that. A team down by ten runs after the first inning and not giving up. Not that I'm saying the Yankees at times look like they'd give up with such a score. No, not implying that at all.
2008-08-12 18:42:30
102.   dianagramr
and Madrigal promptly walks his first batter ....
2008-08-12 18:42:40
103.   williamnyy23
99 Just an example, but if you work the count to 3-2 and then pull a weak ground ball on a pitch off the plate that you used to take for a walk, well, you've seen the same number of pitches, but with an adverse result.
2008-08-12 18:42:41
104.   monkeypants
66 "...I also wouldn't be shocked if he just keeps getting worse, and winds up a .280/.330/.390 guy."

Ummm, isn't that what he is this season?

2008-08-12 18:42:55
105.   Travis08
Scott Feldman is the first pitcher in at least 50 years to give up at least 12 runs and not get the loss.
2008-08-12 18:43:50
106.   dianagramr
Madrigal is now wearing his hear in cornrows.
2008-08-12 18:44:37
107.   Alex Belth
Nice ab by Molina there...
2008-08-12 18:45:12
108.   monkeypants
103 OK, but that only works for 3 ball counts. Otherwise your pitch total would go up. As an example, on 2-0 you swing at a bad pitch and ground out, you have seen 3 pitches. But on 2-0 you take the bad pitch, now you have seen 4 pitches at least.

Are you arguing that Jeter's hacking is largely a product of less selectivity with three balls?

2008-08-12 18:45:22
109.   cult of basebaal
wow ... where's that molina every at bat?
2008-08-12 18:46:25
110.   Alex Belth
Not really sure why Damon offered at that...
2008-08-12 18:46:53
111.   Alex Belth
Ok, Jetes, time for a RBI hit.
2008-08-12 18:47:38
112.   Alex Belth
On Cue!

Chubb Chubb Rock Rounding Third and Scoring!

2008-08-12 18:47:48
113.   Travis08
Hooray for artificial turf.
2008-08-12 18:48:04
114.   dianagramr
Going to top of 7th, 15-14 Texas.
2008-08-12 18:48:31
115.   nick
man, the Jeter argument is my least favorite of all the regular arguments. we don't have fine enough instruments to parse every ab.

big picture: guys with his skills age well, but aging will still begin early 30s. his "approach" change, if it's changed, is most likely a conscious or unconscious reaction to physical decline...

2008-08-12 18:48:46
116.   cult of basebaal
109 cap'n with a hit AND the correct call by meacham, on molina, no less ...
2008-08-12 18:49:18
117.   cult of basebaal
2008-08-12 18:49:52
118.   Just fair
Jeter's gotta come out of the game.
2008-08-12 18:50:08
119.   Alex Belth
Jeter hobbling...

Aw, man, c'mon Alex...we could really use a big base knock here fella.

2008-08-12 18:50:32
120.   cult of basebaal
118 eh?
2008-08-12 18:51:09
121.   cult of basebaal
119 was that on the YES feed? the twins guys didn't mention it (or show it)
2008-08-12 18:51:27
122.   randym77
Jeter is clearly limping. But it looks like he's staying in the game.
2008-08-12 18:51:29
123.   dianagramr
Metrodome turf is probably the worst in the majors in terms of wear and tear on legs.

(see Mauer's injury history)

2008-08-12 18:52:35
124.   Alex Belth
Dammit. First pitch was the one for A Rod, but he was too quick and fouled it off.
2008-08-12 18:52:40
125.   ms october
121 of course not, they spent what seemed like 3 hours talking to last night's pitcher - who would not stop talking

boof bonser is usually good hitting for the yanks

2008-08-12 18:53:26
126.   Alex Belth
2008-08-12 18:54:12
127.   williamnyy23
108 No...I am suggesting that Jeter is swinging at more bad pitches across the board. As another example, swinging at a first pitch off the plate is hacking. Swinging at a first pitch fast ball down the middle (unless you are trailing by a lot late) is a good AB. Both involve one pitch.

It is an interesting notion, however, to consider that he might be particularly bad with three balls. And, a quick look at the numbers actually reveals that to be the case:
After Career 2008
3-0 1.459 0.752
3-1 1.154 0.810
3-2 0.908 0.737

2008-08-12 18:55:24
128.   dianagramr
16-14 Texas .... Marlon Byrd gets his 5th hit of game.
2008-08-12 18:55:42
129.   OldYanksFan
And Texas scores another. 16-14 in Boston.
2008-08-12 18:56:14
130.   rbj
16-14 Texas.

Once again, no lead is safe in Fenway Park.

2008-08-12 18:57:11
131.   dianagramr
Okajima now pitching for Sox ...
2008-08-12 18:57:20
132.   monkeypants
127 Right, but swinging at more bad pitches across the board would lead to 1] more strike outs (not fewer) and 2] fewer pitches sen per plate appearance.

One solution that you do not consider is that Jeter always swung at bad pitches in the past, but was able to do more with them (more line drives and fewer ground balls).

2008-08-12 18:57:41
133.   3rd gen yankee fan
I just want to slap Arod.
2008-08-12 18:58:48
134.   Alex Belth
Buckle down Moose, you old goat...
2008-08-12 18:59:33
135.   OldYanksFan
Moose's pitch was up...
2008-08-12 19:00:18
136.   Travis08
Teams that have scored 10+ runs in an inning have only lost 6 times in the 100+ years of Retrosheet game logs.

8/23/2006: Cleveland 15, Kansas City 13.
6/8/1989: Philadelphia 15, Pittsburgh 10.
6/3/1933: Yankees 17, Philadelphia A's 11
9/26/1912 (Game 2): Cubs 11, Cincinnati 10
6/20/1912: New York Giants 21, Boston Braves 12
5/3/1912: Philadelphia A's 18, Yankees 15.

2008-08-12 19:01:12
137.   Travis08
136 The 1989 Pirates lost 15-11, not 15-10.
2008-08-12 19:01:48
138.   monkeypants
127 As a follow up to 132 , I too can come up with a number of scenarios where "hacking" would result in just as many pitches seen as "being patient." But over the long haul, it is very, very unlikely that swinging at bad pitches across the board would result in the batter seeing the same number of pitches per AB. Jeter's #P/PA this season suggest that he is swinging at just about the same sorts of pitches with less success, or he has adopted some bizarre damnable "approach" whereby he sees the exact same number of pitches yet only swings at bad ones. That would be weird.
2008-08-12 19:02:05
139.   randym77
Why is Jason Ellison pinch-hitting for Catalonotto?
2008-08-12 19:02:36
140.   pistolpete
Hysterical quote from Sox board:

"Biily Crystal could put on a Rangers jersey tonight and get a hit."

2008-08-12 19:03:01
141.   Alex Belth
Way to go Moose.
2008-08-12 19:05:50
142.   Jeb
Nice to see Moose painting the black tonight. All I even care about these days is seeing him get 20 W's b/c he's pitched his ass off this season.

I see the Sawx exploded against Bizarro Kramer.

2008-08-12 19:06:13
143.   dianagramr
Rangers load bases with two out ...
2008-08-12 19:07:27
144.   dianagramr
Okajima works out of it, 16-14 bottom 7th.
2008-08-12 19:07:59
145.   cult of basebaal
why would you ever play jason giambi? all he ever does is walk and clog the bases ...
2008-08-12 19:09:11
146.   monkeypants
I'm not watching the game. How is Moose pitching? He's given up a lot of hits but not too very many pitches so far. Is he pitching to a lot of contact? Hard hit balls?
2008-08-12 19:09:20
147.   williamnyy23
132 Swing at more bad pitches could lead to more Ks and fewer pitches, but it doesn't have to. Also, I have considered that possibility that Jeter maybe unable to handle the same pitches he once did, but I don't think that explains the entire decline. More likely, I think his own perceived diminished skill has made him more likely to swing at lesser pitches.
2008-08-12 19:09:26
148.   cult of basebaal
nicely done by nady to let that one hit him ...
2008-08-12 19:10:07
149.   monkeypants
145 You definitely don't want him to clog the bases against a LHP...that's even worse.
2008-08-12 19:10:58
150.   Alex Belth
C'mon, Betemit.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-08-12 19:11:05
151.   cult of basebaal
yup, ROTTEN robbie is in the house, lovely ...
2008-08-12 19:12:04
152.   Jeb
146 I dunno b/c I just flipped it on. I just finished reading "Greatest Game" about the '78 playoff and decided to watch my copy of that game. The Yanks had me a bit nervous, but Bucky Dent got a big hit in the 7th. Big hits by Munson and Reggie too and good defensive play by Sweet Lou in the 9th. They went into Beantown and stole that game.
2008-08-12 19:13:38
153.   Alex Belth
Nice job, Wilson.
2008-08-12 19:14:21
154.   williamnyy23
138 Jeter's drastic drop in performance with three balls could very well explain how he is seeing the same number of pitches, but swinging at more bad ones. By jumping at picthes off the plate (or close), Jeter could be sacrificing both walks and strikeouts in favor of weak contact.
2008-08-12 19:15:32
155.   Alex Belth
Jeb, how did you like that book? I didn't like it at all. It was competent, it was fine but I find that genre of books deadly. With each mini-bio segment starting by using a players full name, "Reginald Martinez Jackson was born..." I didn't learn much that I didn't already know, save the stuff from Munson's old man, who seemed like a right jerk. Guess the apple didn't fall far from the tree...
2008-08-12 19:15:51
156.   Just fair
2008-08-12 19:15:51
157.   OldYanksFan
Sox rallying. 2 on, no out.
2008-08-12 19:16:18
158.   pistolpete
155 Maybe the book is directed at the more casual fan?
2008-08-12 19:16:19
159.   williamnyy23
153 If anyone, including the manager, is surprised by that AB, they haven't been watching all season. Betemit is yet another Yankee who seems to lack any semblance of an approach at the plate. You can't complain about not scoring runners when you have a lineup chock full of guys who simply swing. I don't blame Betemit...I blame Girardi.
2008-08-12 19:16:51
160.   3rd gen yankee fan
My god this is just inhumane!
2008-08-12 19:17:02
161.   monkeypants
147 I never said it had to, but over the long term that is what tends to happen by far. The situation that you describes simply does not seem very plausible to me, and moreover it is based largely on your own subjective view that he is swinging at worse pitches.

I think my explanation is more plausible because it is simpler (Occam's razor): he's swinging at the same pitches and doing less with them. Plus, I simply can't remember all of the pitches good or bad that Jeter has swung at in his long career, so I would hesitate to base a conclusion on my own recollection of such.

2008-08-12 19:17:54
162.   OldYanksFan
OMG! A Costly throwing error by the Texas pitcher lets the Sox back in the game. Shitfuck!
2008-08-12 19:20:36
163.   pistolpete
159 You getting the feeling some coaches might take a hit?
2008-08-12 19:20:54
164.   OldYanksFan
161 William, I got to agree with MP on this one. Jeter has ALWAYS been a hacker, but when he hacked a .310 BA, we considered him a good hitter, and didn't notice his hackitude as much. Now he is missing or fouling of pitches he used to put in play, giving him the additions #P he's not seeing due to less BBs and Ks.
2008-08-12 19:21:23
165.   Just fair
So the Twins are better because they are less talented?
I think I know what you mean, Mr. Flaherty.
2008-08-12 19:21:26
166.   williamnyy23
161 Observation is definitely prone to error, but I simply can't recall a season in which Jeter has swung at so many bad pitches. It might not be the simplest answer, but it is the one that makes sense to me.
2008-08-12 19:21:33
167.   monkeypants
162 When both teams have scored more than 14 runs, neither is ever "out of the game."
2008-08-12 19:23:31
168.   Jeb
155 Wow. See I thought Munson was a GOOD guy because he made an effort to see his children frequently. In fact, I'd say that it was because his father was so ugly to Thurman that he reacted to that and wanted to be a good Dad. Unfortunately, flying home all the time ultimately killed him. He may not have been nice to the media or to Reggie, but the impression I've always gotten was that he was wonderful to his family and I respect that.

Thurman's Dad even made some ugly comments after he found out his son died --- total asshole. I don't think the apple was that close.

I also didn't know that Dent was adopted and spent a lot of his life looking for his Dad.

I agree that the book is mostly competent. It was a quick and easy read. I much prefer Roger Kahn's "October Men" which is more focused on the entire season than just that one game, but the quality of the writing is better.

2008-08-12 19:23:46
169.   Alex Belth
Considering Moose didn't have his best "stuff" tonight, he did a nice job.
2008-08-12 19:24:25
170.   williamnyy23
164 I disagree...Jeter has always been a free swinger, but never a hacker. You might think that's semantics, but I don't. A free swinger is ready to hit his pitch regardless of the count, while a hacker is simply ready to swing regardless of the pitch. I have seen Jeter swing at more balls of the plate, pull more weak grounders on outside pitches, swing early in the count in situations that screamed for patience, etc. That is not the Jeter I have watched over the previous 13 seasons (and sadly, I have probably seen 95% of his career ABs).
2008-08-12 19:24:48
171.   Alex Belth
I never read "October Men." I know Kahn worked for Time magazine during those days, right?
2008-08-12 19:25:18
172.   Jeb
162 Shitfuck? OYF are you quoting Joe Schultz? You can also use fuckshit.
2008-08-12 19:25:31
173.   OldYanksFan
Could have been worse. Texas error allows 1 UNearned run to score. 16-15 Texas, after 7.
2008-08-12 19:25:57
174.   Alex Belth
Good job, Johnny. We need mo runs...
2008-08-12 19:26:32
175.   Alex Belth
Man, nice peg from right.
2008-08-12 19:26:33
176.   dianagramr
337 pitches thrown through 7 innings in Boston, 16-15 Texas.
2008-08-12 19:29:16
177.   Jeb
171 You got me there, Alex. Kahn wrote that book around 2000 or 2001 (I think). I think he was long done with Time, unless he wrote it and waited to publish it.

It was very well written. Plus Kahn was actually in the stands at the playoff in Boston and got a little more "feel" for being there than what's his name.

2008-08-12 19:29:41
178.   monkeypants
170 "I have seen Jeter swing at more balls of the plate, pull more weak grounders on outside pitches, swing early in the count in situations that screamed for patience, etc."

I suspect this is the key point, and where our analyses mainly differ. You argue (I assume) based on memory that Jeter has been swinging at these outside pitches where in the past he took the pitch. I argue that in the past he swung at the same outside pitch but lined it to RF; this year he rolls over and grounds out just as his increased ground ball rate and decreased line drive rate would suggest.

If I am correct, then the question is not "why is Jeter less patient?" but "why is he less successful?"

2008-08-12 19:30:19
179.   Alex Belth
We needed a break.
2008-08-12 19:31:33
180.   cult of basebaal
i'll take the break, but god has the umpiring been awful this year.

bring on the umpbots!

2008-08-12 19:32:32
181.   pistolpete
C'mon, Al-Rod. Put this one a little further out of reach.
2008-08-12 19:33:10
182.   dianagramr
Bobby Crosby homers, Oakland up 2-0 over Rays in 2nd.
2008-08-12 19:33:23
183.   williamnyy23
171 October men was pretty good. Kahn included some inside stories about what it was like to cover baseball in the 1970s that were interesting. The account of the season was also very good. I'd recommend it to anyone intersted in those teams.
2008-08-12 19:34:29
184.   dianagramr
Michael Phelps just won his 4th gold medal ... now has 10 lifetime.
2008-08-12 19:35:25
185.   pistolpete
Sheff put on waivers... do we dare?
2008-08-12 19:36:25
186.   Just fair
Time for a Mustache, Alex. : [)
2008-08-12 19:36:34
187.   Alex Belth
Talk about bad luck...
2008-08-12 19:37:29
188.   monkeypants
185 Nope. Was he put on waivers because of his latest gripe, which is that he wants to "play full time" and not DH. What would he do for the Yankees? Play part time and DH...
2008-08-12 19:37:53
189.   cult of basebaal
wow ... another great game for arod

obviously, he angling to suck so hard for the next 40 games that no one else on the team will be noticed ...

2008-08-12 19:37:56
190.   3rd gen yankee fan
:::slaps Arod:::
2008-08-12 19:38:03
191.   williamnyy23
178 Again, I am not arguing that Jeter used to take more pitches. I am suggesting that his entire approach has changed, and part of that is swinging at pitches he normally wouldn't have. I think some of his diminished results stems from a change in approach.
2008-08-12 19:38:40
192.   Max
This is truly the road trip from hell for A-Rod.
2008-08-12 19:38:47
193.   williamnyy23
That's only a DP because Abreu decided that a take out slide wasn't needed. That's what I mean when I question the Yankees effort.
2008-08-12 19:40:27
194.   williamnyy23
192 Arod is hitting the ball hard, but everything is on the ground. Maybe he is wearing down a little?
2008-08-12 19:42:27
195.   Shaun P
Hey all, I can't believe Texas came back - and the Yanks are winning (phew!).

I was at Hughes's start in Pawtucket tonight, and he looked very sharp. His fastball was 93-94 consistently by the stadium radar gun (though I have no idea how accurate it is). He was getting everything over for strikes, and I'm pretty sure I saw his new cutter as well. Here are some pics I took of Hughes warming, and then one pitch in the first inning, if you're interested. They're from my cell phone, so they aren't the greatest:

(Oh, and the last one is Gardner beating out an infield hit. Damn he is fast.)

I (sadly) missed Melancon because my 2-year-old little Yankees fan decided she was tired and wanted to go home. Which was OK, seeing she sat and watched the game for that long. =)

RIYank was supposed to be there too, and probably still is as the game was tied 2-2 going into extra innings last I checked. And I believe he was going with teenagers, not a 2 year old.

I expect we are going to see Hughes in pinstripes again very soon.

2008-08-12 19:43:21
196.   Just fair
2008-08-12 19:44:00
197.   pistolpete
195 Got a zoom lens on that thing? ;-)
2008-08-12 19:44:06
198.   cult of basebaal
2008-08-12 19:44:12
199.   monkeypants
191 No, but you are arguing that he used to take more pitches in some situations and swing more pitches in other situations such that he is seeing the same number of pitches overall...and that this is the result of a fundamentally new approach that results in him swinging at more bad pitches than you ever remember, and that results in worse results.

My explanation is simpler and better accounts for the statistical data, IMO.

Anyway, we can go around like this for ages.

2008-08-12 19:44:52
200.   cult of basebaal
195 good news, good news ...
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2008-08-12 19:45:16
201.   monkeypants
194 Or different approach? ; )
2008-08-12 19:46:14
202.   dianagramr
16 all in Boston.
2008-08-12 19:46:23
203.   monkeypants
Okey-dokey...let's see if the boys can get Moose another W.
2008-08-12 19:47:06
204.   OldYanksFan
Pedroia ties it with a wallball double. Papi up, man on 2nd, 2 out.
2008-08-12 19:47:34
205.   OldYanksFan
Papi walks, Youk up.
2008-08-12 19:48:30
206.   OldYanksFan
Man, ARod is just sucking big time.
2008-08-12 19:48:57
207.   OldYanksFan
3 run bomb from Youk. Shitfuck.
2008-08-12 19:48:58
208.   dianagramr
Youk 3-run HR, 19-16.
2008-08-12 19:49:02
209.   williamnyy23
199 Well, the stats do show a dramatic decline in walks and slugging with three ball counts, which would encompass part of my theory. I don't think Jeter's problems stem from not being able to handle the 3-2 pitch, for example, as much as from the types of 3-2 pitches he is swinging at.
2008-08-12 19:49:40
210.   monkeypants
205 et al. I gotta give some of you guys credit for being to scoreboard follow with such vigor...I can barely keep my mind on one game, let alone two, let alone with 40 games left in the season.
2008-08-12 19:50:56
211.   dianagramr

Having the Extra Innings cable package helps ...

2008-08-12 19:50:56
212.   Shaun P
197 I would have brought my SLR with its telefoto zoom lens - but lugging that plus my daughter plus her stuff was just not meant to be. =)

204 Crap.

2008-08-12 19:52:11
213.   williamnyy23
210 Here I agree with you. I have to admit that my biggest concern in this game is getting Moose a win. It's hard to get worked up over the Boston score when the Yankees can't put together consecutive well played games with any regularity.
2008-08-12 19:52:43
214.   Just fair
So, shorten up the swing here, Betemit, and go the other way. You know, a little ol' line drive over the ss's head.
2008-08-12 19:55:34
215.   cult of basebaal
if at first you can't hit a curveball, try, try again ...
2008-08-12 19:55:35
216.   tommyl
Hey, another baserunning gaffe! Its the Yankee way!
2008-08-12 19:56:19
217.   Just fair
4 double plays tonight. Bollocks.
2008-08-12 19:56:21
218.   williamnyy23
Nice to see Cano add baserunning to his do not concentrate list.
2008-08-12 19:56:41
219.   randym77
2008-08-12 19:56:58
220.   Shaun P
210 I'll presume that OYF, and all the other Boston-area Banterers, agree that a demoralizing loss for Red Sox is much preferred to a dramatic win, because those types of wins get over-hyped by every facet of the local media, from the 5AM morning news to the local NPR radio stations and so on.

Hence, its easy to scoreboard watch and hope you don't have to avoid all forms of local media tomorrow.

2008-08-12 19:58:07
221.   OldYanksFan
210 You're watching the game? No wonder you are not gaining any ground on William.
2008-08-12 19:58:17
222.   3rd gen yankee fan
218 He's thinking about Doritos.
2008-08-12 19:58:34
223.   nick
did Betemit not single, Cano to second?
2008-08-12 20:00:00
224.   tommyl
Oh good, now we can blow the game! Yay!
2008-08-12 20:00:19
225.   randym77
$30 million will buy a lot of Doritos.
2008-08-12 20:00:23
226.   dianagramr
19-17 .... Texas has tying run at plate with one out versus Papelbon
2008-08-12 20:00:35
227.   pistolpete
Wow does Marte suck at the moment.
2008-08-12 20:00:35
228.   OldYanksFan
220 I was SOOOOOOOOOOO looking foward to the Postgame in Boston after blowing a 10-0 lead. Too bad.

Althought it's now 19-17, 1 out, tying run at the plate against Papsmear.

2008-08-12 20:01:07
229.   Max
220 Well said.

Thanks for the report from the PawSox game about Phil. I have to make it to a game there sometime.

2008-08-12 20:04:02
230.   monkeypants
210 ???

I'm not sure what you mean, but I've got the Yanks on the radio. Sterling and Waldman is all that I can handle...

2008-08-12 20:04:39
231.   williamnyy23
227 And yet he has apparently convinced Girardi that he should be the dreaded "8th inning guy".
2008-08-12 20:07:10
232.   Shaun P
229 You're welcome. Pawtucket is a really nice place to watch a game: easy to get to (couple of minutes off 95S just over the RI border), the view from every seat is awesome, food is reasonably priced and good (for ballpark food), and the priciest ticket is $10. (And, for beer connoisseurs, they also serve Guinness, which has guaranteed that next time I go, my wife is coming too. =)
2008-08-12 20:07:17
233.   williamnyy23
Girardi's strength had been managing the bullpen. He has even bungled that over the past 10+ days.
2008-08-12 20:07:20
234.   pistolpete
Holy crap. Not again.
2008-08-12 20:08:01
235.   Shaun P
Nady good.

Marte bad.

2008-08-12 20:08:01
236.   cult of basebaal
hey, nice to see marte imploding in his 1st inning pitched this time ...
2008-08-12 20:08:33
237.   3rd gen yankee fan
Guiness in a minor league ballpark, that's a nice find.
2008-08-12 20:09:35
238.   Just fair
I have to think that Marte is going to have a better Yankee career than Farnsworth.
2008-08-12 20:09:58
239.   monkeypants
236 Well, with the Yankees leading Mo was going to come into the game in the 9th, so this would have been Marte's last inning. Maybe he always implodes in his last inning, rather than his second inning?
2008-08-12 20:10:40
240.   dianagramr
oh my ....
2008-08-12 20:10:44
241.   tommyl
You have to be fucking kidding me. This is not happening.
2008-08-12 20:10:44
242.   randym77
I like McCoy Stadium, too. It's kind a kind of residential neighborhood, so it is very easy to get to. Free parking and low prices.

The only drawback is it doesn't have a lot for kids to do, like some of the newer stadiums (that have playgrounds and the like). Not a problem if you don't have kids, of course.

2008-08-12 20:10:54
243.   williamnyy23
Moose can't get the reason to keep watching. Good night all.
2008-08-12 20:11:03
244.   Raf
I rushed home for this?
2008-08-12 20:11:35
245.   monkeypants
Well kids, that might be the last straw...the death blow..the symbolic end...
2008-08-12 20:11:47
246.   pistolpete
Jesus f*ck on a popsicle stick.
2008-08-12 20:11:59
247.   Max
Marte having a really rough stretch currently. The thing is, it's feast or famine with him...when he's good, he's very good and very efficient.

But 19 pitches and only one out is clearly bad Marte.

Wow, I guess our season really is over now...Mo can't clean up Marte's mess...again.

2008-08-12 20:12:07
248.   randym77
Oh, Mo.
2008-08-12 20:12:10
249.   OldYanksFan
How is this possible?
2008-08-12 20:12:14
250.   Just fair
I have enjoyed hearing how disappointing Delmon Young's season has been up to this point. f$#$ a duck
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2008-08-12 20:12:17
251.   cult of basebaal
you manage like your pants are on fire, joey joe joe jr, eventually you're gonna end up smelling like burnt shit ...
2008-08-12 20:12:32
252.   nick
well, that about sums it all up for 2008, folks....
2008-08-12 20:12:33
253.   monkeypants
243 Grrr...I forgot about that for a moment.
2008-08-12 20:12:36
254.   OldYanksFan
Moose gets screwed again.
2008-08-12 20:13:20
255.   Shaun P
Fuck the heck?!

Well, it is August, I guess its time for "What's Wrong With Mariano Week"?

Can we send Marte back to Pittsburgh, postage paid? Sheesh.

2008-08-12 20:13:25
256.   Raf
Delmon Young looks like Keroppi
2008-08-12 20:13:29
257.   3rd gen yankee fan
Extreme cursing in this house. Sad.
2008-08-12 20:13:39
258.   OldYanksFan
Even Mo is imploding.
The End is near.... repent....
2008-08-12 20:14:39
259.   nick
has EVERY SINGLE RUN Mo's given up this year been a killer?

has he ever given up a solo shot in the course of a save with a 2-run lead, something like that?

jesus christ....

2008-08-12 20:14:41
260.   Just fair
They just have to pick up Mo and come back and win it. And if they don't, well, it won't be surprising.
2008-08-12 20:15:11
261.   Shaun P
242 This is true. Fortunately, they have a lot of colorful signs on the outfield walls, so you can play "count how many green/white/yellow/blue signs you see" - at least for a couple of innings.

Paw and Sox (neither of whom we saw tonight, to my daughter's dismay) help too.

2008-08-12 20:16:11
262.   monkeypants
245 Ha! Shows you how much I was paying attention...I assumed that the Twinkies went ahead. And you know what, I don't much care that they didn't. Moose can't get a win, and now we get to listen to the Yankees slumber through extra innings--and Christian is in for Giambi to boot.
2008-08-12 20:18:43
263.   pistolpete
Hey, good thing Damon's in tonight.
2008-08-12 20:21:10
264.   monkeypants
Jeter should steal, but he has looked a step woo slow this season.
2008-08-12 20:21:47
265.   Jeb
255 can we send rivera to pittsburgh too?
2008-08-12 20:22:13
266.   Jeb
I see Dennis Reyes still has the Mumps.
2008-08-12 20:22:24
267.   Just fair
If Abreu doesn't gidp, Alex should hit a homer. Then we call all go home happy.. Somewhat.
2008-08-12 20:23:06
268.   monkeypants
264 too slow
2008-08-12 20:24:00
269.   monkeypants
267 except Moose, who has to be wondering what more he needs to do...
2008-08-12 20:25:10
270.   cult of basebaal
264 even the twins announcers are now pointing out that jeter is still limping when he runs ...

watching the replay, yikes, he's running like he's got 1 wooden leg ... lovely.

2008-08-12 20:26:04
271.   pistolpete
Alex IBB?
2008-08-12 20:26:51
272.   randym77
Damon earned his keep today. So did Giambi. Heck, even Betemit had a RBI.

I like this lineup over yesterday's. It's not their fault Marte's struggling and Mo had his first blown save of the year.

I am even more ticked at Cano's baserunning idiocy, though.

2008-08-12 20:26:54
273.   Jeb
269 he should demand a waiver deal to a team with a prayer.
2008-08-12 20:27:36
274.   cult of basebaal
man ... this season really is turning out like 2006 did for the red sox ... hang in there, hang in there ... then utter collapse
2008-08-12 20:27:45
275.   OldYanksFan
Poor Moose can not catch a break.
2008-08-12 20:28:42
276.   Jeb
I absolutely guarantee that the Twins will get a walkoff basehit in the 9th. I wish I had $100 and a bookie because Mo will NEVER pitch a shutout inning in a tie game in 2008. Guaranteed loss.
2008-08-12 20:29:19
277.   randym77
So who's playing SS?
2008-08-12 20:29:25
278.   Start Spreading the News
why was Melky running for Cabrera???
2008-08-12 20:29:43
279.   monkeypants
270 Just as I heard Sterling say ..."so Melky runs for Jeter..."

Great, now Jeter is hurt again. And that also means Betemit to SS and Sexson to 1B.


2008-08-12 20:29:53
280.   OldYanksFan
What now? Betemit at SS and Sexy at 1st? Giambi and Jeter out. Mo will be used up. Any real reason to keep watching?
2008-08-12 20:31:00
281.   OldYanksFan
Do we have anyone else who can play the infield?
2008-08-12 20:31:19
282.   pistolpete
278 Say again?
2008-08-12 20:31:33
283.   randym77
278 Jeter's been limping. Possibly because he fouled a ball off his foot. Joe decided he wanted someone who could steal 2B, and put in Melky. Who was out on the force on the next pitch.
2008-08-12 20:32:31
284.   Shaun P
276 Recent crappy history aside, he is facing Carlos Gomez (.292 OBP) and Nick Punto (.318 OBP), and is Span (.401 OBP) gets on, then Redmond (.307 OBP) is due up. Unless Punto grounds into a double play.

So I'm not worried.

2008-08-12 20:33:30
285.   monkeypants
Sterling keeps saying that the Yankees are out of players. What about Pudge? And don't give me that "you need to keep an emergency catcher" nonsense. This team is in free fall...the last thing they should concern themselves with is the off chance that they 2nd catcher gets hurt in extra innings (if it gets that far).
2008-08-12 20:33:47
286.   Start Spreading the News
282 Heh. I was so surprised that I couldn't type straight. Got the names all mixed up.
2008-08-12 20:33:48
287.   Jeb
[Melky watching Nick Punto's head-first slide]...."Hmmmmmm I need to keep doing that"
2008-08-12 20:33:53
288.   RIYank
Hey, Shaun, I guess you left early.

Extra innings after a low-scoring nine innings; the SWB Yanks score four runs in the tenth, 3-run Chad Moeller homer. But then Scott Strickland goes to pieces and the PawSox tie it! Yanks get two more in the eleventh, Eric Duncan double, and it holds up.

Melancon seemed to me to have really good stuff, not so great control. He allowed both inherited runners to score, but then settled down and pitched well. We also got to see Phil Coke baffle a few betters.

I see you didn't mention the oddest play of the game: Shelley Duncan stole second base.

2008-08-12 20:34:29
289.   Just fair
When was the last walk-off-cat-walk win?
2008-08-12 20:34:47
290.   randym77
Punto does the Melky slide.
2008-08-12 20:37:19
291.   pistolpete
Melky should slide himself right onto a Greyhound headed for Scranton, PA.
2008-08-12 20:38:29
292.   pistolpete
Ok, so who's ready for the Edwar granny in the 11th?
2008-08-12 20:38:36
293.   Shaun P
288 Shelley stole a base!?!? Wow, we missed that entirely; when the SWB Yanks were batting is generally when we made our (slow) walks to get food.

Damn, I missed Coke too . . . but I'm glad they won. Sounds like I missed a heck of an ending. Thanks for filling in the gaps for me!

Fortunately for the Yanks, Gardenhire seems to have an aversion to using Nathan in a non-save situation, so a win should be imminent.

2008-08-12 20:38:43
294.   Max
There you go...Mo gets a scoreless inning in a tie game.
2008-08-12 20:39:31
295.   RIYank
291 He'd have to go to Pawtucket, I tell ya. Also, they have a pretty good CF already, name of Gardner. Tonight he was out at second trying to advance on a sac fly. He would have been safe but he began his slide about six feet too early.
2008-08-12 20:41:06
296.   Shaun P
293 Clearly I am "watching" this game online. D'oh.
2008-08-12 20:41:22
297.   RIYank
293 Yeah, he stole second and then scored on a single.

285 Hey, look, monkeypants, it's Pudge!

2008-08-12 20:42:17
298.   Alex Belth
ah the game that is designed to break your heart and bust your gdamn balls.
2008-08-12 20:42:31
299.   randym77
Wow. Pudge was the last batter on the bench, wasn't he?
2008-08-12 20:44:43
300.   monkeypants
297 Yay!!
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2008-08-12 20:44:55
301.   Just fair
299 There are a few pitchers left. : )
2008-08-12 20:45:39
302.   Alex Belth
No way the Yanks win this one...and we can forget Moose winning 20 too.
2008-08-12 20:46:36
303.   randym77
301 Oh, boy. If someone gets hurt, we might see a pitcher as an outfielder.

And remember that game where Jaret Wright pinch-ran for Giambi?

2008-08-12 20:46:55
304.   Alex Belth
loo-sers, loo-sers...
2008-08-12 20:47:23
305.   monkeypants
299 It's too bad that pitchers have become so useless...when Jeter went out in the 9th, that might have been a good time to use a pitcher as a PR and save Melky's bat.

Then again, that would imply that you would bat Melky for anyone besides a pitcher...

2008-08-12 20:47:23
306.   Shaun P
Who's coming in?
2008-08-12 20:47:30
307.   pistolpete
Looking at 6 back in the WC? UGH.
2008-08-12 20:48:37
308.   Shaun P
305 Hey, if Paul Byrd could out-hit Melky, its entirely possible that some of the Yanks' pitchers could as well.
2008-08-12 20:48:54
309.   Alex Belth
Morneau will go yard...
2008-08-12 20:48:57
310.   RIYank
306 Veras.
2008-08-12 20:49:39
311.   Alex Belth
It's Veras time...
2008-08-12 20:50:25
312.   RIYank
Yeesh. Alex Belth has joined the ranks of the depressed.

I'll catch you guys later. Like maybe September.

2008-08-12 20:51:02
313.   randym77
305 The Reds use Bronson Arroyo as a pinch-runner when he's not starting.
2008-08-12 20:51:05
314.   pistolpete
The sad thing is that Boston is entirely ripe to be caught. If they're still up by at least 3-4 going into September, it's over.
2008-08-12 20:51:46
315.   Just fair
Boy. Morneau's had that feel. I do kind of hope it'll be quick and painless. This blows.
2008-08-12 20:51:50
316.   Shaun P
309 Breathe, Alex! Its not over yet!
2008-08-12 20:52:05
317.   Alex Belth
Nice slide, Jackass.
2008-08-12 20:52:42
318.   Alex Belth
Okay, let's all applaud again...
2008-08-12 20:54:04
319.   monkeypants
303 I wonder which actually happens more in a season--a team in the AL runs out of position players (or is left with only the BUC on the bench and effectively runs out of players) OR the 12th or 13th pitcher gets into the game.

I wonder if the pendulum of orthodoxy will ever swing back and teams decide that it's better to carry that extra player instead of the extra pitcher.

When Booby Murcer passed away, Alex posted the baseball-reference box score of a game that he saw where Murcer performed some heroic feat. This got me looking at some old box scores of games I had attended. It is interesting to see how much more frequently PH were used earlier in the game, even as recent as the 1980s.

2008-08-12 20:55:06
320.   Alex Belth
Nathan is gone...this is their chance...or are they just messing with us? Is THIS going to feel like the worst loss of the year? Which one of these? It's late and I'm getting delirious.
2008-08-12 20:56:20
321.   randym77
I just hope this doesn't match the longest game on record. Which was played at McCoy Stadium. It went 33 innings.
2008-08-12 20:56:32
322.   Alex Belth
Late on the 1-2 heater...that was there...
2008-08-12 20:58:07
323.   OldYanksFan
319 I think they had a 4 man rotation then, so that is another spot for a position player. They also didn't have pitch counts.
2008-08-12 20:59:09
324.   monkeypants
313 Maybe there is a tactical niche for a "utility pitcher." You could carry a RP/PR instead of, say, a LOOGY. Ideally you could use such a player in double switch situations, but there probably aren't enough of those situations in the AL to make such a player much more than a novelty. A starter, however, would rarely be used to pitch on off days, so you could use him more freely as a PR (with increased injury risk, of course).
2008-08-12 20:59:37
325.   OldYanksFan
This is somewhat masochistic, staying up late to watch a game where there is little chance of winning... in a season where there is little chance of winning.
2008-08-12 21:00:18
326.   Alex Belth
...Like MICE, not men, MICE.
2008-08-12 21:00:51
327.   monkeypants
323 Were four man rotations common in the 1980s? I think the 12th and 13th pitcher is a pretty recent trend, since the 1990s...but I'd have to check.
2008-08-12 21:00:55
328.   Alex Belth
325, you are so right. What the hell are we doing? LOL. We must be knuts.
2008-08-12 21:02:06
329.   Shaun P
325 328 My wife is going to kill me - I was supposed to go to bed an hour ago. But I feel compelled to keep "watching".
2008-08-12 21:02:49
330.   Alex Belth
super hustle
2008-08-12 21:03:53
331.   Alex Belth
Ha. Em's given up on me. Won't be able to whine to her tomorrow about being tired.

Nice swipe, J. C'mon, big fella.

2008-08-12 21:04:17
332.   Just fair
Damon should sit again tomorrow so he'll be doubly rested for Friday.
2008-08-12 21:04:41
333.   pistolpete
I just struck out Sexson in my PS3 game.. Hopefully my console isn't psychic.
2008-08-12 21:04:59
334.   Jeb
Has it really come to this? Richie fucking Sexson?
2008-08-12 21:05:18
335.   Alex Belth
Jeez, Sexson was swung about four feet over a hittable slider...
2008-08-12 21:05:36
336.   cult of basebaal
you guys got wives and you're watching this instead?

that's some hellofa argument for being single ...

2008-08-12 21:06:02
337.   Alex Belth
There is just no way the Yanks are winning this game.
2008-08-12 21:06:32
338.   Alex Belth
Dude, our wives are asleep.
2008-08-12 21:07:05
339.   tommyl
336 To be fair, my gf lives 100 miles away at the moment and I was just playing guitar for an hour. It had calmed me down, anger rising again. Maybe I should get the acoustic out and play some Simon and Garfunkel. Or grab the electric and just bang power chords till I feel better?
2008-08-12 21:07:40
340.   Alex Belth
If the Yanks can get to the 12th, A Rod will go yard...but that's a big "if"
2008-08-12 21:07:57
341.   monkeypants
That's interesting...the piece of shit radio station just cut from the game to talk radio at midnight. Bye-bye game...
2008-08-12 21:08:15
342.   Just fair
338 Mormon? I've only got one. : )
2008-08-12 21:10:52
343.   Jeb
342 love those magic underpants.
2008-08-12 21:10:58
344.   Shaun P
336 Our two little ones have my wife tired out most nights - so yeah, AB is right, my wife's long been asleep.

I will have no excuse for not getting up with the kids ~6AM tomorrow morning . . . yet here I am stilL!

2008-08-12 21:11:09
345.   Alex Belth
Way to go, Veras! I thought for sure he'd lose him and walk the lead off man. Good job.
2008-08-12 21:11:18
346.   OldYanksFan
329 Like a highway accident....
2008-08-12 21:11:18
347.   Jeb
so this loss will start with a walk...
2008-08-12 21:12:13
348.   Alex Belth
So, naturally he falls behind Everett 3-0...
2008-08-12 21:12:33
349.   cult of basebaal
343 ah! magic underpants! that explains how Step 2 works ...
2008-08-12 21:13:06
350.   Alex Belth
Hey, whaddaya say! Veras didn't suck there.
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2008-08-12 21:13:08
351.   Jeb
this loss will begin with a walk..then a walk off hit.
2008-08-12 21:14:17
352.   Alex Belth
Here we go! A Rod's gunna come through, baby!
2008-08-12 21:15:35
353.   Jeb
Alex-- we're holding you to the Arod homer, particularly after you turned Mo into Kyle Farnsworth last month.
2008-08-12 21:16:02
354.   tommyl
352 Alex, your enthusiasm is so cute. I hope you're right. I'm trying to hold on here.
2008-08-12 21:16:32
355.   pistolpete
Farnsworth poisoned the drinking water before he left, it's the only explanation.
2008-08-12 21:17:46
356.   Alex Belth
bum luck for bobby
2008-08-12 21:17:47
357.   Just fair
343 Over my head. ?
2008-08-12 21:18:15
358.   tommyl
Alex Belth, you are the man!
2008-08-12 21:18:16
359.   Alex Belth
So smooth, so easy, so fresh and so clean, clean
2008-08-12 21:18:32
360.   randym77
Holy jeez, Alex is psychic.
2008-08-12 21:18:46
361.   Jeb
Alex you are redeemed.
2008-08-12 21:19:05
362.   Alex Belth
Dude, I'm stressed about the prospect of Edwar though...they've just GOT to win this one. C'mon Pudge, how about back to back?
2008-08-12 21:19:07
363.   cult of basebaal
352 pure gold, baby, pure gold ...
2008-08-12 21:19:14
364.   tommyl
Please, please, please hold this lead. Please.
2008-08-12 21:19:29
365.   thelarmis
alex and alex!!! way to go both of you! hey belth, keep doing that for the next 8 weeks or so!!!! : )
2008-08-12 21:19:38
366.   Alex Belth
Yes, we'll take it. Bring that Pudge home now!
2008-08-12 21:20:12
367.   OldYanksFan
340 Give that man a root beer.
I'm pretty sure that one qualifies as close and late.
2008-08-12 21:20:21
368.   Jeb
357 Mormon thing. They wear magic underpants. google it.
2008-08-12 21:20:47
369.   3rd gen yankee fan
we're gunna wiiiiiin we're gunna wiiiiiin

i need sleep.

2008-08-12 21:20:48
370.   Alex Belth
2008-08-12 21:20:59
371.   tommyl
Wow, Nady is awesome.
2008-08-12 21:21:29
372.   Just fair
I was close. : ) 267
2008-08-12 21:21:37
373.   Jeb
fuck you minnesota, particulary the ONE guy I could hear screaming at Mo and Arod.
2008-08-12 21:21:38
374.   pistolpete
Right now I don't care if Marte sucks. Nady's been well worth the expense.
2008-08-12 21:21:57
375.   OldYanksFan
Downright Bomberlike.
2008-08-12 21:22:00
376.   randym77
I'm really getting to like this Nady guy.
2008-08-12 21:22:03
377.   Start Spreading the News
Does this mean that the Arod homer is no longer clutch? ;)
2008-08-12 21:22:44
378.   Jeb
Magic underpants:
2008-08-12 21:22:46
379.   thelarmis
former yanks and palindromic numbers:

sheff hit homer #492
big unit got win #294

2008-08-12 21:23:18
380.   cult of basebaal

more and more like craig wilson, everyday cliff, more and more every day ...

2008-08-12 21:23:36
381.   OldYanksFan
Girardi is the man. Really. Red Bull enemas after the 10th inning. Who wudda thunk?
2008-08-12 21:23:41
382.   Shaun P
THIS is why I stayed up!

Alex, your hopeful optimism trumps your defeatism. Nice call in 340 !

2008-08-12 21:23:45
383.   thelarmis
X-Man!!! hell yeah!!!

our pen should certainly hold this...

2008-08-12 21:24:43
384.   Shaun P
383 But, just to be on the safe side, how about another 5 runs?

What is Pete Abe saying now?

All of a sudden, I'm wide awake!

2008-08-12 21:24:49
385.   pistolpete
383 Oh no you di'int.
2008-08-12 21:24:53
386.   Alex Belth
I'm a twin, what can you say, I runs hot and cold, from dark pessimissm to upbeat optimism. Freakin Gemini too.
2008-08-12 21:25:30
387.   Max
374 Word. One of Cash's best mid-season acquisitions.
2008-08-12 21:26:08
388.   OldYanksFan
By the by, Mr. Sheffield on waivers hit 2 HRs today... but Detroit lost anyway. They are now 3 games under .500. They were the common pick to go into the PS. Baseball is a funny game.
2008-08-12 21:26:19
389.   Alex Belth
Please, no more homina homina homina moments. Let us get three outs before they score three runs so we can all go to sleep with that peaceful easy feelin.
2008-08-12 21:26:22
390.   pistolpete
386 Same here, when's the b-day?
2008-08-12 21:26:40
391.   thelarmis
383 i know, i know. i was thinkin that. that's why i wrote should, i didn't say will... good enough disclaimer?! hoping so!

384 pete abe saying he pulled an alex belth and also called the A-Bomb...

2008-08-12 21:26:41
392.   tommyl
Ok guys, 3-run lead, 3 outs. Lets get this one!
2008-08-12 21:27:51
393.   Alex Belth
Millar's boy, ol gopher ball Edwar...oy.
2008-08-12 21:28:18
394.   tommyl
2 more
2008-08-12 21:28:20
395.   Alex Belth
Yes! One away...
2008-08-12 21:28:44
396.   monkeypants
388 You just can't predict baseball...
2008-08-12 21:28:51
397.   pistolpete
whew, one down.
2008-08-12 21:30:53
398.   OldYanksFan
Speaking of PeteAbe:
UPDATE, 9:23 p.m.: Hughes is finished. 5.1 3 2 2 1 4. 84/50. He left with a 2-0 lead with two runners on base, having reached his pitch count. Mark Melancon then allowed two hits, leaving Hughes charged with two runs.

Meanwhile, Bobby Meacham is having another rough night at third base. Among the many things the Yankees need to address is the makeup of Girardi's staff. Their inexperience is certainly a factor in this season.

UPDATE, 10:15 p.m.: Scott Proctor has a sore elbow that will need surgery and he may not pitch again this season. They should still try and trade Wilson Betemit back for him.

UPDATE, 10:54 p.m.: I take it all back. Betemit is awesome, even if they did just intentionally walk Cano to get to him.

UPDATE, 11:10 p.m.: Unbelieveable. First blown save for Mo. Costs Mussina a win that he should have had.

Marte has been brutal. 7.1 innings, 9 hits, 9 ER.

UPDATE, 11:31 p.m.: No idea what is wrong with Jeter. He did foul a ball off his foot earlier in the game.

UPDATE, 11:54 p.m.: There's a woman sitting in front of the press box with a Doug Mientkiewicz Twins jersey on. He last played for the Twins in 2004.

Meanwhile I can spell Mientkiewicz without looking it up.

A-Rod is now 5 of 31 on the trip with two RBI. … Good fans here in Minnesota, not too many folks have left.

UPDATE, 12:17 a.m.: OK, I'm calling a HR for Alex here.

UPDATE, 12:19 p.m.: Wow, I was right. Mark Feinsand of the Daily News is my witness. Just ask him. Not that calling a HR by a guy with so many of them makes me a genius. But still.

2008-08-12 21:31:30
399.   thelarmis
Phantom Warrior! that's 2...

1 more out...

2008-08-12 21:31:46
400.   pistolpete
Pavano stunk it up in AA tonight too, btw.
Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2008-08-12 21:31:49
401.   randym77
Poor Craig Wilson. He ended up getting surgery on his shoulder. I think that's why he didn't hit very well for us. He had shoulder tendinitis, and finally had surgery for it in 2007. He's still working his way back from it.
2008-08-12 21:32:44
402.   tommyl
YES! Good Edwar!
2008-08-12 21:33:06
403.   pistolpete
Is it over? (emerges from under his desk)
2008-08-12 21:33:16
404.   Alex Belth
gentle peoples, it's been a pleasure watching this one with youse...sweet dreams! Thanks A Rod.
2008-08-12 21:33:30
405.   thelarmis
ballgame! it probably doesn't matter, but let's hope oakland holds on and beats tampa. last licks for the rays...
2008-08-12 21:33:40
406.   Jeb
Doctor, we may have a's faint...but it's definitely a pulse.
2008-08-12 21:34:33
407.   thelarmis
401 i always liked craig wilson. i hope he'll be okay and play somewhere again...
2008-08-12 21:35:21
408.   Shaun P
Hey, Edwar got a save!

Well, it still sucks that Moose didn't get the win, but it was worth sticking around to see the end.

'Night, all!

2008-08-12 21:36:11
409.   tommyl
404 Ditto man, get a good night's sleep. Ok, all wired now, need to calm down so I'm coherent at work tomorrow.
2008-08-12 21:36:44
410.   OldYanksFan
William and MP stop arguing and we win the game. Coincidence?
2008-08-12 21:37:21
411.   3rd gen yankee fan
oh thank god. gnite.
2008-08-12 21:38:35
412.   monkeypants
410 Be nice!

MP: "Jeter got three hits and the Yankees win. Coincidence?"

W23: "Jeter left the game and the Yankees win. Coincidence?"

2008-08-12 21:39:16
413.   tommyl
Oh wow, Phelps: 2 more golds, 2 more world records. That's 5 races, 5 golds, 5 world records. That's um, insane.
2008-08-12 21:39:38
414.   randym77
407 Wilson is currently playing for the Tacoma Rainiers, the Mariners' Triple-A team. (Their replacement for Bronson Sardinha?) He's doing pretty well there. Someone will give him a shot next year, I'm sure.
2008-08-12 21:41:24
415.   thelarmis
414 awesome, thanks so much for the update, randy! : )
2008-08-12 21:42:58
416.   OldYanksFan
Icing on th cake: Rays just lost 2-1.

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