Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
Yanks are Slippin
2008-08-06 09:40
by Alex Belth
2008-08-06 10:40:54
1.   FreddySez
Too many holes. Too many flaws. It's been true all season, but what's slippin' now is the blanket of denial I've held over my eyes since April.

Is this a team that can make the playoffs? Sure, maybe. But are we looking at a team that ought to make the playoffs?


2008-08-06 10:44:46
2.   tommyl
1 Possibly right, but hell there's whole divisions out there like the NL West that bear that description. This team looks a lot like the 2006 Red Sox. Some promise, the ability to contend but likely not quite there yet in the end. I'm actually fine with that. The transition has to happen sometime, and if it gets rid of a few bandwagon morons who think Brosius was the greatest 3B ever than even better.
2008-08-06 11:02:24
3.   pistolpete
2 Brosius? Best ever? Blasphemy — that distinction belongs to the former #13 at the hot corner, Mikey Pags. ;-)
2008-08-06 11:06:29
4.   weeping for brunnhilde
2 Really? Who thinks that?
2008-08-06 11:09:09
5.   dianagramr

no love for Celerino Sanchez? :-(

2008-08-06 11:13:51
6.   JL25and3
2 I don't think they said that Brosius was the best third baseman ever. If I understood correctly, the argument was that (a) you don't need a superstar at every position, so it's OK if some of your players can't hit for crap, and (b) Brosius was a winner who knew how to win and did things to win and was a winner. Rodriguez may hit .315/.400/.600 with 20 SB...but what do those things have to do with winning?
2008-08-06 11:27:29
7.   pistolpete
6 A-Rod may have this "I have to carry the team" mentality and can't snap out of it, but that's not necessarily the fault of anyone around him. The beauty of (most) of the recent dynasty teams was that no one player had all the 'tools' that A-Rod does, they had to do with what they had & everyone complemented each other.

Brosius may have been an underwhelming presence at the plate, but he did have an above-average glove. Knoblauch threw balls into the stands, but the man did have some speed and a pretty decent OBP. No one on those teams was a really significant power threat — Tino hitting 44 in 1997 was considered astronomical at the time...

2008-08-06 11:27:41
8.   JohnnyC
Steven Goldman says Yanks should call up Ajax now. He's been hot (and has an OPS above 900 on the road for the season). Maybe you catch lightning in a bottle for 8 weeks. Elsewhere, on the waiver front, maybe Cashman should seriously consider claiming Aaron Rowand...who has undoubtedly been placed on waivers by the Giants.
2008-08-06 11:33:44
9.   JL25and3
2 Carrying forward your comments from the last thread regarding CG:

Yes, lineups have definitely become harder to get through; the good-field-no-hit Neifi!riffic player isn't held in the same regard as 40 years ago, unless maybe you're Melky Cabrera.

The offensive environment has also changed even above and beyond that. Not only are the bad hitters replaced by better ones, but everyone's getting more hits, and more XBH, than when Kaat was a kid.

And, finally, relief pitching is looked at very differently. A reliever isn't just a failed starter anymore, but an actual asset (even if a more limited one than a starter). Why is it somehow morally superior to let a tired starter gut it out than to bring in a fresh arm who's throwing a lot harder?

When Kaat was pitching, I'm sure Lefty Grove and Carl Hubbell were talking about how pitchers in their day were real men (started 30-35 games and relieved another 15 times). When they pitched, Cy Young was saying it, and before that Albert Spalding was probably calling Young a wuss.

2008-08-06 11:40:15
10.   tommyl
6 So does David Eckstein. Let's also not forget who smacked a double off Rivera in the 9th inning of Game 7. One Tony Womack. That guys a true winner and clutch hitter. We should pick him up.
2008-08-06 11:42:04
11.   cult of basebaal
8 i think you meant to write that randy winn will be placed on waivers and might be available, cause aaron rowand isn't going anywhere.
2008-08-06 11:50:01
12.   ms october
now what you just heard, people, was a little kickin
but let me tell you this while the clock is still tickin
this is the warning, known as the caution

8 if the yanks think jackson could come up and his growth won't be harmed, i could get behind that.
but aaron rowand has a full no trade this year, has a deal through 2012; and an ops+ of 102 which is certainly way better than melky, but nothing to write home about

9 you aren't letting us hold melky in that regard :}

following up on your relief pitching comments jl, how long has the practice of grooming a pretty good pitcher, but someone you don't think will make it as a starter for whatever reason (injury, limited number of pitches, etc) like a mark melancon been going on?
that is - were relief pitchers like that around when kaat was pitching?

2008-08-06 12:04:52
13.   JL25and3
12 Interesting question, and the best I can do is anecdotal.

There were relief specialists in the majors, but I believe most of them were given a chance as starters first. Jack Aker's one I've found who was never anything but a reliever in the majors, but he seems to have started his MiL career as a starter.

Sparky Lyle seems never to have been anything but a reliever, majors and minors. I think those cases were vary few and far between.

2008-08-06 12:11:10
14.   OldYanksFan
Not to mention today's pitchers faced a lot of guys on steroids and the real oldtime pitchers had a higher mound. OBPs were also lower, as walks weren't looked at as being as productive as a hit.

We are definitely cooked. 8.5 games out of the WC. No chance.

2008-08-06 12:15:29
15.   OldYanksFan
From PeteAbe:
RHP Chris Britton is on his way to Texas and presumably will be added to the roster tonight. That means somebody (Joba Chamberlain) is headed to the disabled list as Britton was optioned down on Friday and can't be recalled this soon otherwise.

More on this as it becomes available. Joba is meeting with Dr. James Andrews today in Pensacola, Fla. Don't read too much into Joba likely going on the DL. That was going to be the case regardless.

2008-08-06 12:21:57
16.   JL25and3
15 Obviously, this means that Kennedy will be called up to make a start this weekend. Otherwise Britton might stay on the roster for more than a couple of days, and we know that can't be allowed to happen.
2008-08-06 12:36:46
17.   ms october
13 thanks jl. interesting. it does seem like sparky lyle's career was odd for those times.

feinsand's reporting kennedy is coming up and will make saturday's start

2008-08-06 12:50:19
18.   dianagramr
Its gittin its gittin its gittin kinda hectic ...
2008-08-06 12:50:59
19.   bp1
1 If Hughes and Kennedy were league average starting pitchers this season, the Yankees would be playoff bound and the team's holes would be annoying but not defeating. Their 0-9 start put the team in a position they were (so far) unable to come back from. Cashman took a gamble that the team could get young, cheap, and still be a playoff contender this year. Doesn't appear that is going to happen.
2008-08-06 12:54:18
20.   cult of basebaal
19 and if arod, posada, wang and matsui hadn't gotten hurt, we'd be just as well off if not better than where ipk and hughes would have gotten us.

in any case, last time i checked, we are a playoff contender

2008-08-06 12:58:29
21.   dianagramr
Indians have blown 7-4 lead in 9th. Rays still batting tied at 7.
2008-08-06 13:05:52
22.   dianagramr
Pena hits 3-run HR to give Rays 10-7 win.
2008-08-06 13:06:10
23.   thelarmis
jesus christ, cleveland gives up 6 in the 9th w/out getting 1 freaking out. tampa wins...
2008-08-06 13:16:33
24.   thelarmis
according to pete abe, wang is still in a large boot and on crutches. looking like spring training before we see Tiger again. : (

let's hope for better news on Joba...

2008-08-06 13:18:39
25.   pistolpete
22 At some point, I think we may have to concede that Tampa is a team of destiny this year. Lot of gritty wins, lot of breaks, lot of career years out of their guys.

Still a long way to go, but they're sure not showing any signs of slowing down yet.

2008-08-06 13:23:24
26.   Max
22 25 I commented on this in the previous thread, but based on our remaining schedule on and those of the other potential playoff teams, I think catching the Rays is the longest shot. They would have to have a Met or Mariners level breakdown for us to even dream of catching them.
2008-08-06 13:32:00
27.   cult of basebaal
24 heal fast and good luck in your post-season rehab, doodles, see you in march!
2008-08-06 14:38:38
28.   nick
chris young breaks up jeff karstens' perfecto with two outs in the 8th...

Comment status: comments have been closed. Baseball Toaster is now out of business.