Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
Boston Red Sox IV: Deal Or No Deal Edition
2008-07-25 12:42
by Cliff Corcoran

The Yankees' current six-game winning streak has been extremely fruitful. By sweeping the A's and Twins, the Yanks have surged into second place in the Wild Card race and enter this weekend's three-game series against the Red Sox just three games behind both the Sox and the Rays in the AL East. Another sweep would put them in a tie with Boston for second place in the east and the Wild Card lead. A 2-1 series loss, however, would put them four games behind Boston, as many as five games behind the Rays (who play the Royals this weekend), and could even drop them back behind the Twins (who play the Indians). It's thus imperative that the Yankees at the very least take two of three this weekend. The question is: can they do it?

Let's look at the pitching match-ups first. The Yankees have two of their best starters going in the first two games. Joba Chamberlain, who starts tonight, has a 2.41 ERA over his last seven starts, including a quality start against the Red Sox at the Stadium three weeks ago. Andy Pettitte has a 2.18 ERA over his last eight starts, but the one real dud in that stretch came at home against the Sox (4 2/3 IP, 6 R). Both have been better on the road than at home, but neither has pitched at Fenway this season.

Opposing Joba tonight will be Josh Beckett, who is one of the few Red Sox pitchers who has pitched worse at home than on the road. Beckett has a 4.82 ERA at Fenway this year and gave up five runs in five innings to the Twins in his last home start two turns ago. At the same time, he's already turned in three quality starts against the Yanks this year, including one at Fenway in April, though he has allowed the maximum three runs in each of those starts for a 3.92 ERA against the Bombers.

Tim Wakefield, who faces Pettitte tomorrow afternoon on FOX, has a 3.04 ERA at Fenway and a 2.43 ERA over his last ten starts, including a quality start at the Stadium that left Chamberlain with yet another no-decision.

The finale, which will be ESPN's Sunday night game, pits Sidney Ponson against Jon Lester. Lester is one of the great stories of this season, having rebounded from non-Hodgkins lymphoma to not only throw a no-hitter, but have a great season overall. Lester has a 3.20 ERA on the season, a 2.93 ERA at home, and needed just 105 pitches to shutout the Yankees on five hits and two walks while striking out eight in his only start against the Bombers this season. That said, he's been inconsistent of late. Lester's no-hitter came in the middle of a run of 11 starts from the end of April to late June in which the lefty posted a 2.13 ERA. Since then, however, he's alternated dominant starts (including his shutout of the Yankees) with non-quality outings. If the pattern holds, he's due for a stinker, but his dominance of the Yankees in their last meeting and overall success this season is the better indicator of what he's likely to do Sunday night.

That means Ponson has his work cut out for him. Before his last start, I wrote that Ponson's surprisingly successful season has been the result of a sharp increase in his groundball rate. The problem is that Fenway Park has a notoriously hard infield, which can cause trouble for groundball pitchers (Chien-Ming Wang's career ERA at Fenway is 5.11, and in his complete-game two-hitter there this April, he got more outs in the air than on the ground). Ponson hasn't faced the Red Sox this year, but historically, the Sox's lineup own him (David Ortiz: .444/.563/.722; Manny Ramirez: .404/.481/.511; Jason Varitek: .317/.364/.561; Kevin Youkilis: 4 for 9 with a double; J.D. Drew: 3 for 7 with a double; Dustin Pedroia: 3 for 3), the only exception being Mike Lowell, who is 0 for 7 with a walk against Ponson. Lester would have to implode completely for the Yankees to overcome what's likely to happen to Ponson on Sunday night.

That means the Yankees hopes for a series win lie in the first two games, both of which have the potential to be tightly-contested pitchers' duels. The Yankees scored 25 runs in their three-game sweep of the Twins and are averaging 6.3 runs per game since the All-Star break, but the Twins helped out with some sloppy and absent-minded play in the field, and the Bomber bats struggled to solve Sean Gallagher and Justin Duchscherer in the A's series, as the Yankees won both games by just one run thanks in large part to strong pitching performances from Chamberlain, Pettitte, and the bullpen. That pattern may have to repeat itself in order for the Yankees to win these first two games.

The good news is that the Red Sox aren't scoring. While the Yankees scored 25 runs in the Twins series alone, the Red Sox have scored just 22 runs since the All-Star break, an average of 3.67 per game. They opened the second half by getting swept in Anaheim with Beckett and Wakefield receiving two and three runs of support, respectively. They then swept the Mariners in Seattle, but averaged just 3.67 runs per game during regulation in that series, requiring extra innings to pull out the finale.

The bad news is that the Sox just activated David Ortiz off the disabled list, which could give their offense the jump-start it needs. Manny Ramirez, despite the affront of his flopping-fish routine in Anahiem, has hit .471/.609/.765 since the break, giving Ortiz the protection he'll need to get back in the groove. Still, one wonders what lingering effects, if any, will Ortiz's wrist injury have on his swing. The Yankees haven't really had to sweat Ortiz yet this year. He's was on the DL during their most recent series against the Red Sox, and when they faced him in April, he was slumping horribly. Ortiz went 1-for-17 against the Yankees in April, his only time on base coming via a single. At the end of that stretch, he was hitting .111/.222/.159 on the season. Starting the next day and leading up to his injury, however, he was back to his old tricks, hitting .313/.408/.626.

So the question is, will Ortiz come off the DL as hot as he was when he went on it, or will he have to fight through a repeat of those April doldrums in order to get back in the swing? The discouraging news is that Ortiz hit .313/.450/.875 with three home runs in his recent five-game rehab assignment. Less discouraging is the fact that nearly all of that, including all three home runs, came in Double-A.

It's up to Joba to get Ortiz off on the wrong foot and the Yankees on the right foot tonight in what will be the biggest start of his admittedly very young career as a major league starting pitcher, and up to the Yankee bats to reward him for doing so by getting to Josh Beckett early. (Seriously, can we get this kid another win already?)

As for the Yankees chances of taking the series, the Red Sox have a 13-2 record in series at Fenway this year (including a 2-1 series win over the Yankees in April) and a staggering .766 winning percentage in home games. They've scored just 4.34 runs per game on the road, but 5.83 R/G at home, while the Yankees have scored just 4.33 runs per game on the road. That alone tilts the odds against the New York nine, but I think Chamberlain and Pettitte can get the job done. The only question is if the offense has built enough confidence and momentum to finish the job. I sure hope so.

Boston Red Sox

2008 Record: 60-43 (.583)
2008 Pythagorean Record: 62-41 (.601)

Manager: Terry Francona
General Manager: Theo Epstein

Home Ballpark (multi-year Park Factors): Fenway Park (106/105)

Who's Replaced Whom:

David Ortiz (DL) replaces Brandon Moss (minors) on the roster and Coco Crisp in the lineup
Jed Lowrie (minors) replaced Julio Lugo (DL)
Clay Buchholz (minors) replaced Justin Masterson in the rotation
Masterson replaced David Aardsma (DL) in the bullpen

25-man Roster:

1B - Kevin Youkilis (R)
2B - Dustin Pedroia (R)
SS - Jed Lowrie (S)
3B - Mike Lowell (R)
C - Jason Varitek (S)
RF - J.D. Drew (L)
CF - Jacoby Ellsbury (L)
LF - Manny Ramirez (R)
DH - David Ortiz (L)


S - Coco Crisp (OF)
L - Sean Casey (1B)
L - Alex Cora (IF)
R - Kevin Cash (C)


R - Josh Beckett
R - Tim Wakefield
L - Jon Lester
R - Daisuke Matsuzaka
R - Clay Buchholz


R - Jon Papelbon
L - Hideki Okajima
R - Manny Delcarmen
L - Javier Lopez
R - Mike Timlin
R - Craig Hansen
R - Justin Masterson

15-day DL: R - Julio Lugo (SS), R - Bartolo Colon
60-day DL: R - Curt Schilling


L - Jacoby Ellsbury (CF)
R - Dustin Pedroia (2B)
L - David Ortiz (DH)
R - Manny Ramirez (LF)
L - J.D. Drew (RF)
R - Mike Lowell
R - Kevin Youkilis (3B)
S - Jed Lowrie (SS)
S - Jason Varitek (C)

Comments (573)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-07-25 14:30:24
1.   Just fair
Reports are that Manny has been scratched from tonight's line-up. So that's good, right? : ) Would anyone have felt bad if Ortiz was still on the shelf? Nah! Here's the Yanks taking at least 2. Let's go JOBA.
2008-07-25 14:30:49
2.   underdog
Apparently the Yanks are scouting Randy Winn now. If they trade for him, please don't trade the Giants anyone good please, thanks.
2008-07-25 14:37:16
3.   yankster
Woo-hah! I've been looking forward to this game for at least a week now. I hope it's tight for a while until we blow them out. GOOOOOOO jOOOOOba
2008-07-25 14:38:41
4.   rbj
Oh wow, Yankees - Red Sox. Why hadn't anyone told me? If only there were something like a, oh to be crazy, a 24 hour sports - news tv channel that could let us know when these important mid July series happen. They don't have to flog it to death, but just let us know about them.
2008-07-25 14:40:42
5.   yankster
And not only is Manny out, but if he comes back Saturday or Sunday, he probably won't be in great form then either. I'm sure he would have played in this game if he could, because he's a warrior. Here's hoping he gets better soon, right after the series is over....
2008-07-25 14:43:25
6.   yankster
4 just another benefit of not having a cable tv- IV hooked up to my arm. Not having a tv at all, for that matter. I get to be legitimately excited about things that are legitimately exciting, while other people are just cynical. I feel sad for you. Might be time rip that cable out of the wall, eh?
2008-07-25 14:43:30
7.   Just fair
For kicks, I just read a an article in the Globe comparing the two teams. The author of said article said Robbie Cano won a batting title in 2006. How do these guys get jobs? Or keep their jobs for that matter?
2008-07-25 15:15:05
8.   Cliff Corcoran
6 My TV comes with this thing called a "power switch." It allows you to turn it off when there's not something on you want to watch. Between that and the DVR, the only things I watch that I haven't planned to watch in advance are the shows my wife planned to watch in advance.
2008-07-25 15:45:07
9.   ChrisS
Encouraging words from Cashman regarding trades over at LoHud.

Go Joba!

2008-07-25 15:59:44
10.   rbj
9 Who's that "Carl Pavano" guy -- is he one of the new signees, and why should he worry about bees or sunburns, he doesn't have a history of injuries does he?
2008-07-25 16:02:22
11.   mehmattski
Oh goodie, NESN. Time Warner seems to randomly choose one game a night to offer both broadcasts. It's Cards-Mets, tonight.
2008-07-25 16:04:14
12.   JL25and3
9 "Cashman said he has faith in Molina and Moeller to catch the rest of the season. Finding a catcher is not high on his list."

I dont count that as good news. I mean, I know it would be just about impossible to get a good catcher, but that shouldn't imply faith in Moellina.

2008-07-25 16:06:11
13.   mehmattski
12 c.f. "We're comfortable with Bubba Crosby as our starting day centerfielder."

Cashman is trying to temper the desperation. Everyone knows the Yankees need a catcher, and this is a classic Cashman tactic to show he's willing to go with what he's got if he doesn't get what he wants.

2008-07-25 16:09:41
14.   RIYank
5 "I'm sure he would have played in this game if he could, because he's a warrior."

Um, sarcasm? Because that's not exactly what folks are saying in New England!

2008-07-25 16:12:58
15.   JL25and3
13 That's what I'm hoping. On the other hand, Cashman has been so risk-averse when it comes to trading that I can't be sure.
2008-07-25 16:14:52
16.   mehmattski
The Boston crowd is quite subdued so far. I expected a prolonged chant about Madonna, at the very least. Poor showing.
2008-07-25 16:16:58
17.   mehmattski
There's the crowd. Nothing like a hitter getting completely fooled to fire up the crowd...
2008-07-25 16:20:15
18.   RIYank
Wow great pitch to get Giambi. Dammit.
2008-07-25 16:20:56
19.   51cq24
i hope he gives joba such a big strike zone
2008-07-25 16:21:34
20.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
Big strike zone so far, hope that holds for Joba..23 pitches for Beckett, could have been more...
2008-07-25 16:22:18
21.   ChrisS
I'm not quite sure how to take that inning, two Ks, two hits. Hmm.

15 I think risk adverse is a good thing when it comes some of the fantasy baseball trade proposals that are floating around. I'd rather Cashman make a good trade than make moves just to make moves. If people want an active GM, they should follow the A's.

2008-07-25 16:23:45
22.   mehmattski
I hope someone gave Joba the Crash Davis speech:

Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring, and besides that, they're fascist. Get more groundouts, they're more democratic.

2008-07-25 16:24:07
23.   RIYank
17 Nothing like the return of the hero to fire up the crowd.
2008-07-25 16:24:21
24.   ChrisS
22 Apparently they did.
2008-07-25 16:26:06
25.   mehmattski
Anyone see the Yankees-Red Sox teaser on right now. The side-by-side of Joba and Beckett is kinda creepy...
2008-07-25 16:28:45
26.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
pitch-count worries for Joba today...can't walk Papi here...
2008-07-25 16:29:18
27.   RIYank
Wow, that was a fun confrontation. Show down, whatever. Too bad Jeter missed the tag!
2008-07-25 16:29:52
28.   mehmattski
Pedroia was out. Tagged him on the leg.
2008-07-25 16:29:53
29.   SF Yanks
And I see the bad calls are beginning.
2008-07-25 16:30:11
30.   Eirias
Alright, I'll admit that Pedroia's move was pretty good.
2008-07-25 16:31:16
31.   Eirias
Ah, Angel Hernandez, the Ozzie Guillen of umpires.
2008-07-25 16:31:37
32.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
would we all love Youkilis if he was a Yankee??
2008-07-25 16:31:46
33.   Chyll Will
You can't play anything close with Angel Hernandez. Unfortunate call, but what can you expect, it was close.
2008-07-25 16:32:11
34.   monkeypants
I have to listen to the game on radio, so I didn't see the play. But it sounded like a very gritty slide.
2008-07-25 16:32:27
35.   Chyll Will
32 Would he act the way he does if he was?
2008-07-25 16:32:34
36.   Eirias
34 More gutsy than gritty.
2008-07-25 16:33:16
37.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
34 more like a pesky slide, or maybe scrappy...
NASTY pitcj for the K there
2008-07-25 16:33:28
38.   mehmattski
Haha... expecting the slider, were we, Youk? That swing was almost as bad as A-Rod's.
2008-07-25 16:33:49
39.   Eirias
22 I'll admit, I was rooting for fascism there with Youkilis.
2008-07-25 16:33:49
40.   monkeypants
36 Thanks. Gutsy doesn't come across as well on the radio.
2008-07-25 16:33:52
41.   Chyll Will
34 >;) It was more of a Michael Phelps slide...

Close call moot.

2008-07-25 16:35:32
42.   JoeInRI
32 I've argued with Sawx fans that Youk is their Paul O'Neill
2008-07-25 16:35:39
43.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
btw, anyone read Joel Sherman's "Birth of a Dynasty" book? halfway done now, it's not great but has some good stuff. a few thoughts: Steinbrenner was an unreal bully, Cal Ripken was way more selfish than I knew, and Gene Michael should have a Yankee pension for life...
2008-07-25 16:37:03
44.   Eirias
That Lincecum article was quite interesting, though the dad came off a little poorly.
2008-07-25 16:37:35
45.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
first pitch swinging!! Noooo!
2008-07-25 16:37:40
46.   Jeb
41 better than Ken Phelps, no?
2008-07-25 16:37:40
47.   Jeb
41 better than Ken Phelps, no?
2008-07-25 16:38:27
48.   Jeb
43 Yeah, I did. I thought it was pretty good.
2008-07-25 16:38:34
49.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
Molina vs there any reason for confidence?
2008-07-25 16:39:33
50.   Eirias
Gardner is gonna show Pedroia what gritty is.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-07-25 16:39:44
51.   mehmattski
Before June 14: 269 PA, .217/.260/.316
Since June 14: 127 PA, .361/.381/.546

Is there enough evidence yet that Cano being benched on June 14 turned his season around? Or is it a coincidence?

2008-07-25 16:40:13
52.   monkeypants
Sterling sounds sooo happy when he say's "Here's your everyday catcher, Jose Molina."

You know he's just dying to say "the best .220 hitter you'll ever see!"

2008-07-25 16:41:01
53.   Alex Belth
Pretty great how hot Cano is...
2008-07-25 16:41:12
54.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
52 the bottom 3 of this lineup is really depressing..
2008-07-25 16:41:15
55.   RIYank
51 I say coincidence. Unless they benched him in mid-June last year and the year before, too!

Wow, poor Brett, another great pitch.

2008-07-25 16:41:30
56.   Alex Belth
You know that kid Gardner didn't stand a chance against Beckett.
2008-07-25 16:41:38
57.   mehmattski
That second strike was outrageously outside. And I bet Brett was still thinking about it when Beckett back-doored that curveball.
2008-07-25 16:42:03
58.   Chyll Will
46 ,47 Heh, if Ken could only slide like that, he wouldn't have been part of Seinfeld trivia a decade later...
2008-07-25 16:42:27
59.   ChrisS
nice, glad Gardner is up to take away Melky Cabrera's job.
2008-07-25 16:42:34
60.   rsmith51
I think the Yanks should put Cano in the #3 hole since he is so hot. I realize he doesn't walk, but he is clobbering the ball.
2008-07-25 16:42:40
61.   rbj
53 I think Cano is personally responsible for a 1 degree rise in the global temperature.
2008-07-25 16:43:06
62.   JL25and3
It's really a disadvantage to give away three spots in the order.
2008-07-25 16:43:40
63.   rsmith51
57 I was thinking that, too. The same pitch from Joba was a ball. Gotta beat the umps.

Did you like Batman, Alex?

2008-07-25 16:43:52
64.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
am I a homer or is the ump not giving Joba the same calls he's giving the Texan??
2008-07-25 16:44:09
65.   RIYank
60 I dunno, having Prime Walkers Abreu and Giambi ahead of him makes sense. Them: more likely to get on base; him: more likely to knock them in...
It probably doesn't make much difference in the long run.
2008-07-25 16:44:49
66.   RIYank
Holy cow. A homer in most parks, a single here.
2008-07-25 16:44:52
67.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
Monster single...
2008-07-25 16:45:31
68.   monkeypants
51 Cano's career splits by month:

March/April: .612 OPS
May: .699 OPS
June: .825 OPS
July: .923 OPS
August: .807 OPS
Sept/Oct: .981 OPS

Maybe that has something to with it?

2008-07-25 16:45:35
69.   Just fair
Gardner cocks his arm funny before he throws the ball. As long as he doesn't have a Melky-Like debut out there.
2008-07-25 16:45:42
70.   seattleyank
Leiter just called Mike Lowell a "hooker." Tee hee.
2008-07-25 16:45:44
71.   RIYank
Yeah baby! Take that, Jacoby!
2008-07-25 16:46:01
72.   Just fair
Wow. How times have changed. : )
2008-07-25 16:46:05
73.   Chyll Will
64 Agreed. Offense is gonna have to conjure up some big hits to beat some sense into the ump...

Melky witda Nice dive!

2008-07-25 16:46:37
74.   nick
so why not Christian over Gardner? maybe I'd say platoon, but...Christian's 20some ABs at least resemble a major league ops. Let him prove he's as bad as Gardner...
2008-07-25 16:47:10
75.   Just fair
Double Dope.
2008-07-25 16:47:16
76.   RIYank
Unbelievable. We're going to beat them with defense! Robbie with the leather!
2008-07-25 16:47:18
77.   mehmattski
Great defense? By the Yankees?!?! A-whaaaaaaaaa???
2008-07-25 16:47:23
78.   monkeypants
54 Just think happy thoughts.
2008-07-25 16:47:43
79.   rsmith51
65 Good point. I can live with Robbie in #5 or #6. Unfortunately he will never score...
2008-07-25 16:48:02
80.   RIYank
They really drilled three shots off Joba, not good. The results were very good, but not a good sign.
2008-07-25 16:48:14
81.   OldYanksFan
Really nice to see some excellent D. That could have easily been a big inning for the Sox.
2008-07-25 16:48:14
82.   Chyll Will
2008-07-25 16:48:15
83.   cult of basebaal
damn, cano is a joy to watch at second
2008-07-25 16:48:24
84.   monkeypants
Sterling is just shouting now...were the plays as FAAAABUUULOUS as he proclaimed?

If so, it sounds like Joba is getting hit pretty hard.

2008-07-25 16:48:26
85.   seattleyank
Did the Yankees' defense just turn a 3 hit inning into a 1-2-3 inning?
2008-07-25 16:48:41
86.   mehmattski
74 Umm, one is a 23-year old prospect, and the other is a 26-year old WYSIWYG player. I'll take my chances giving the more promising player more than 56 at bats to prove himself.
2008-07-25 16:49:06
87.   RIYank
84 No doubt about it. Joba got pretty lucky that inning.
2008-07-25 16:49:38
88.   OldYanksFan
JC might start against lefties.
2008-07-25 16:50:21
89.   cult of basebaal
86 true, but when damon is ready to play the field, gardner ought to go back to AAA and play everyday while christian stays up as 4th OF and spot starter against lefties ...
2008-07-25 16:51:09
90.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
78 i'm picking up the slack for some of the missing "cynical" Banter members...
2008-07-25 16:51:58
91.   RIYank
To recap for non-watchers:
The Monster stole a home run from Lowell; Melky stole a double from Drew; Robbie stole a single from Lowrie.

Mean while, man, we have to stop swinging at the Beckett curve. It's unhittable tonight.

2008-07-25 16:52:43
92.   monkeypants
89 Probably the best move. Gardner should be playing every day at this point.
2008-07-25 16:55:20
93.   ChrisS
I really don't see Gardner as much of a prospect.
2008-07-25 16:55:43
94.   RIYank
Nice, Bob. Laid off that vicious curve, then smacked the heater.

Come on, Alex, let's cash in!

2008-07-25 16:55:46
95.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
tater coming from A-Rod, right-center field..
2008-07-25 16:57:08
96.   monkeypants
93 In any case, he's more of a prospect than Christian.
2008-07-25 16:57:08
97.   Alex Belth
I don't know that I can say 'liked' is the right word. It was very accomplished, very well crafted in all aspects. It was the ultimate Batman movie--pushing the violence and nihilism to the edge. It's as far from a Happy Meal super hero movie as you can get. But it was harsh. And it was operatic in scope. At 2.5 hours it was substantial--though he never dragged.

I think Ledger is good but not great. I think the conception of the Joker in this movie is great. But feel that other actors, say Robert Downey Jr or John Leguizano, would be equally as effective in this particular conception of the Joker. I really like the flatness of Ledger's accent though. The madness is there with Ledger--the only tick that distracted me was his habbit of licking his lips that became more prevelant in the second half of the movie.

The movie has a sense of humor, a dry sense of humor, especially in the Bruce Wayne scenes. But there isn't a lot of gleeful madness with Ledger's Joker. It's what made Ceasar Romero so creepy and effective.

This is a graphic novel movie, not a comic book flick. It is serious-minded, ambitious. And I think it achieves it's ambitions, it's very good. It's also hard and detached. Joyless, dark. You don't feel settled when it's over. It's like the "Seven" version of a comic book flick. Relentless, accomplished, cyincal.

There is a soundtrack effect that covers all of the Joker's scenes that is really effective and unnerving.

Worth seeing, top-notch, but but turgid too.

2008-07-25 16:58:01
98.   RIYank
Okay, now Jason, let's go!

I have to admit I wish Rob was up now.

2008-07-25 16:59:09
99.   ChrisS
singles are good, but I want to see an XBH or two. Those Ks are going to limit scoring chances.
2008-07-25 16:59:24
100.   RIYank
Oh yeah Jason! Way to beat that shift!!! STACHE POWER in a new form!
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-07-25 16:59:25
101.   Just fair
That's a riot. Nice job, Big-G.
2008-07-25 17:00:00
102.   RIYank
99 I bet you'll take that, though. And now I get my wish: Robinson is up after all...
2008-07-25 17:00:18
103.   cult of basebaal
FUGLY! but i'll take it!

take THAT, shift!

2008-07-25 17:00:34
104.   ms october
nice shifty run.

i think the stache got some color during the off-day.

and the damn nesn cameran must be drunk - - the camera is shaking like crazy.

2008-07-25 17:01:16
105.   nick
86 you know, Gardner is not a top prospect--his peak will probably be better than Christian's peak, but I think Christian's peak is right now (age 28), and right now is when we desperately need OF hitting--

Giambino--where they ain't!

2008-07-25 17:02:02
106.   ChrisS
99 whatever gets the run across, I guess.

96 Only in the sense that he's younger. I think Christian is already a better ML hitter than Brett will be, and that's not a compliment to Christian.

2008-07-25 17:02:26
107.   rbj
104 Maybe Keith Hernandez and Walt Fraiser visited him.
2008-07-25 17:02:57
108.   claybeez
97 Great mini-review. I loved it for just all that harshness and darkness you mentioned. I did think Ledger, particularly in the 2nd half, was exceptional. I'm not sure another actor could have accomplished as much with the character. He lent The Joker a reality in the midst of his absurdity.
2008-07-25 17:03:24
109.   RIYank
Dammit. Can we replay that and swap his second inning and third inning at-bats?
2008-07-25 17:04:21
110.   Ken Arneson
Apparently, Xavier Nady and Damaso Marte have been traded by the Pirates. Will Carroll says it's to the Yankees. Phil Coke was just pulled from his start at Trenton after one inning, so it looks like he might be involved in the deal.
2008-07-25 17:05:17
111.   SF Yanks
110 Damn, I was really liking Phil Coke.
2008-07-25 17:05:38
112.   OldYanksFan
Beckett is throwing well but a number of balls are up, and he is hittable. Gonna be a tight game and probably determined by the BPs. Beckett with 57 after 3, Joba 29 after 2. It would serve us well to get Beckett out after 6.
2008-07-25 17:06:08
113.   claybeez
110 Mike A. at RAB says it's for Tabata and Ollie + 2 lower tier guys.
2008-07-25 17:06:23
114.   RIYank
108 I agree that the really stunning performance was toward the end of the movie. Truly memorable. I can still see the scene of him, well, upside-down (not to spoil anything). That was also brilliantly shot.
2008-07-25 17:07:35
115.   cult of basebaal
97 yeah serious in the way that freshman english lit majors are serious ...

what did you think of christian bale and his, ummm, affected batman voice?

2008-07-25 17:08:04
116.   JoeInRI
110 Let's hope it's an injury . . .
2008-07-25 17:08:06
117.   OldYanksFan
Update: Peter Abraham is reporting via his blog that Phil Coke, a pitcher at Double-A Trenton has been pulled from his game. It's expected, but not confirmed, that he is one of the players headed to Pittsburgh. I've also just learned that Ross Ohlendorf and at least one other player, perhaps two, will be the cost of Nady and Marte.
2008-07-25 17:08:44
118.   Alex Belth
SI's Heyman has the same on

Wow. Pretty big move.

Go Yanks!

2008-07-25 17:08:48
119.   cult of basebaal
113 oh. joy.
2008-07-25 17:09:03
120.   ChrisS
113 Phil Coke was looking good. I hate losing Tabata no matter the attitude this season. Oh well, there, Cashman made a trade. Yay.
2008-07-25 17:09:11
121.   nick
so we're gonna buy high on Xavier Fucking Nady? DO NOT WANT
2008-07-25 17:09:53
122.   Just fair
6 more of those innings and we'll be good to go. : )
2008-07-25 17:10:38
123.   SF Yanks
If Coke AND Tabata are involved, that would be catastrophic.
2008-07-25 17:11:12
124.   JoeInRI
More runs . . .
2008-07-25 17:11:49
125.   monkeypants
106 Yes, I meant because he's younger, so in effect he is a "prospect" who still has "prospects." Christian is what he is right now.

I think that Gardner will be better than Christian, who has been slow through the system and has batted only a career .799 OPS. in MIL (by contrast, Garner has a career .773 OPS, and has been younger at every stage).

That said, Christian may be more ready to play at the MLB level right now. Plus, if Gardner needs more seasoning, then he is better off at AAA than rotting on the bench with the big club--that job is better suited for Christian.

2008-07-25 17:12:00
126.   Ken Arneson
SI says Tabata, Ohlendorf, Coke, plus one more prospect.
2008-07-25 17:12:04
127.   RIYank
Nady is help for this year only. I can't see him on our team long term. I'm surprised about Marte.

I don't know much about Coke. What's his upside? I always liked Tabata but was starting to give up on the idea that he's got star potential.

2008-07-25 17:12:07
128.   cult of basebaal
coke, tabata, kontos & ohlendorf
2008-07-25 17:12:19
129.   Travis08
"Nady started Friday's game and was removed after one inning. Television cameras caught Marte hugging his teammates in the dugout in the second inning, apparently shortly after learning the news."
2008-07-25 17:12:29
130.   ChrisS
Ugh, the more I look at it, the more I think Cashman got fleeced.
2008-07-25 17:12:41
131.   RIYank
126 Ouch.
2008-07-25 17:13:30
132.   rbj
The Pirates will receive a package of four minor-league players, expected to be Class AAA right-hander Ross Ohlendorf, Class AA right-handers Phil Coke and George Kontos and Class AA outfielder Jose Tabata.

From Fox sports

2008-07-25 17:13:30
133.   JoeInRI
131 Agree
2008-07-25 17:13:31
134.   RIYank
Oh, cripes. That was terrible. Yeesh.
2008-07-25 17:14:20
135.   JoeInRI
If Bay was there instead of Nady, I'd feel better.
2008-07-25 17:14:25
136.   ms october
125 good assessment monkeypants.

130 agreed - what's the point of the deal for this cost.

2008-07-25 17:14:57
137.   cult of basebaal
hey, another awesome call by an umpire! yay!
2008-07-25 17:14:58
138.   nick
Melky does not have good baseball instincts.
2008-07-25 17:15:04
139.   Travis08
Jason Varitek has thrown out fewer than 25% of potential base stealers in each of the last 5 seasons. And he doesn't have to catch Wakefield.
2008-07-25 17:16:05
140.   nick
if we deal those four guys, that is eloquent testimony in favor of the "Yankee fans overrate their own prospects" meme...
2008-07-25 17:17:22
141.   Chyll Will
136 I don't think it ends with this, though... I think a bigger move is in the works, maybe Texeiria?
2008-07-25 17:17:33
142.   rsmith51
I thought Tabata was untouchable. Certainly for the likes of Nady and Marte. I don't think I like this.
2008-07-25 17:17:46
143.   JL25and3
123 Catastrophic? No. Coke's a 26-year-old in AA. Tabata's a few years away, and they may well not be happy with him.
2008-07-25 17:18:19
144.   RIYank
140 I don't get it.
Oh, because it seems like a bad deal to us fans, so that's evidence that we rate them higher than Cashman? Or what?
2008-07-25 17:18:38
145.   OldYanksFan
A lot depends on Tabata. He was the only A-List guy we lost. However, I think due to his personal problems, his stock really sank with the Yankees. Maybe the Yanks know something about Tabata that we don't?
2008-07-25 17:18:58
146.   ms october
this smells to me like an instance of the organization saying we need a rhb and lhrp and we have to get that - blinders fully on

140 either that's the meme or it is we have to make a push for this season after all, and we will sacridice some of the future to do so

2008-07-25 17:19:04
147.   monkeypants
Yikes, that trade is awful, IMHO. They must have really given up on Tabata...that's the only way to explain an organization with just about zero position prospects trading one for a guy having his career year at age 29.

Marte surely means the curtain has fallen on Hawkins; Bruney will stay in MiL and continue to rehab.

2008-07-25 17:19:41
148.   RIYank
143 Right, I think they're concerned about Tabata's attitude + durability. And, it's a little early to tell whether he can really hit, too.
Still, he was kind of exciting to think about.
2008-07-25 17:20:04
149.   Eirias
2008-07-25 17:20:34
150.   JL25and3
147 Well, that's the problem. They don't have any position prospects, so they have to overpay to get anything.

And yes, they probably overpaid. But it's not like they mortgaged the franchise's future.

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-07-25 17:21:01
151.   tommyl
What's Nady contract status?
2008-07-25 17:21:02
152.   ChrisS
125 I apologize, Brett Gardner has the prospects of maybe being slightly better than Christian. They both suck now and will suck in the future as ML hitters.

And Cashman just made a trade for the worst OFer on the market and superfluous left-handed reliever. Happy days are here again!

2008-07-25 17:21:51
153.   Travis08
151 On a one year contract, but not enough service time for free agency. Arbitration-eligible next near.
2008-07-25 17:21:56
154.   Chyll Will
I'll say it, I like Nady earlier on. Short term solution, but a decent RH bat to play the corners. At least better than JC or Gardner.
2008-07-25 17:22:09
155.   SF Yanks
143 I didn't know he was 26. That makes me feel a bit better. Tabata? Eh, he wasn't cutting it for me anyway. Oh well, I guess you gotta give up something to get something.
2008-07-25 17:22:33
156.   nick
144 yeah, my point was that Cashman agrees with other GMs about how good our prospects actually are, rather than agreeing with Yankee fans...
2008-07-25 17:22:36
157.   monkeypants
145 Good analysis.
2008-07-25 17:23:26
158.   OldYanksFan
It might be worse. From PeteAbe-
Update: The final package from the Yankees is Ross Ohlendorf, Jose Tabata, Phil Coke, and George Kontos, according to multiple sources. Rotoworld is reporting a different set of prospects, including Austin Jackson, so I continue to follow this.
2008-07-25 17:23:53
159.   cult of basebaal
i'm pretty fine with the exchange of talent ... it clearly improves the team this year and we didn't up anything that we likely would have missed for several years ...
2008-07-25 17:24:05
160.   RIYank
Marte has a club option next year for $6M. I don't like trading for relievers, though he does seem like a pretty solid bet.
2008-07-25 17:24:11
161.   randym77
Well, Michael Kay seems thrilled with the trade.
2008-07-25 17:24:12
162.   Jeb
Will Carroll says, " Rotoworld is reporting a different set of prospects, including Austin Jackson, so I continue to follow this"

If this is true, Cashman appears to NOT be in charge and would be gone at the end of the season.

2008-07-25 17:24:16
163.   cult of basebaal
158 ... actually, rotoworld isn't stating that at all
2008-07-25 17:24:43
164.   vockins
Nady's going to have to go bonkers for me to come around on that dude.

Marte is great.

I'm not into it, but I don't think it's the end of the world.

2008-07-25 17:24:46
165.   rbj
The trade tells me that neither Matsui nor Posada are coming back this season, and so Cashman had to go out and get an OF.
2008-07-25 17:24:59
166.   JL25and3
148 I suspect you're right. Tabata's got a lot of potential, but if they have doubts about his reaching that potential, then it's the right move.

And the three pitchers are perfect trade fodder. The organization won't miss them at all.

I don't love the deal, and they almost surely overpaid. But I don't think they've done any damage, either.

2008-07-25 17:25:10
167.   Chyll Will
158 That would be very bad...
2008-07-25 17:25:28
168.   cult of basebaal
from the rotoworld writeup:

Others have confirmed. No word yet on the return, but Melky Cabrera is still in the game for the Bombers. The team's top prospect, Austin Jackson, might be involved for that kind of return

now, how you read that to say that austin jackson might be involved, is beyond me. rotoworld is just speculating out their ass.

2008-07-25 17:25:38
169.   RichB
147 Hell yes, that's an awful trade. Three guys who will be quality major league players for a reliever past his prime and a slightly above average outfielder who is late in his prime and hasn't been overwhelming.

Ugh. Hate it.

2008-07-25 17:25:40
170.   RIYank
158 If it's Jackson, then that's bad. But it's also kind of hard to believe.

Whoa, Joba did get that call! But it doesn't matter, dammit.

2008-07-25 17:26:05
171.   monkeypants
150 But I would have rather they overpaid with pitching, which they have in abundance, and not by flipping one of the two position prospects they actually have.
2008-07-25 17:26:27
172.   rsmith51
So this means Gardner will probably go down and play every day and come back in Sept. to be the super Pinch Runner. Can Nady play CF or is he only a corner OF?

Michael Kay reported it as "The Yankees made a great trade."

2008-07-25 17:26:34
173.   SF Yanks
If Jackson is involved, THAT would be catastrophic. This time I mean it.
2008-07-25 17:26:38
174.   vockins
Rotoworld is saying "Jackson might be involved." Total conjecture.
2008-07-25 17:26:56
175.   cult of basebaal
168 sorry, how you read that to state that rotoworld is reporting a different set of prospects is beyond me ...
2008-07-25 17:27:00
176.   Travis08
Damaso Marte:

"June 13, 2001: Traded by the New York Yankees to the Pittsburgh Pirates for Enrique Wilson."

That's got to be one of the worst trades of the Cashman era.

2008-07-25 17:27:16
177.   JL25and3
169 Three guys who will be quality major leaguers? Which three?
2008-07-25 17:27:20
178.   seattleyank
152 Is Nady a great player? No. And he's almost certainly not as good as his stat line this year. But he's undoubtedly better than Brett Gardner. And I don't know why you say Marte is superfluous. He's been a consistently good to very good reliever. You can't really believe that replacing Hawkins with Marte doesn't improve our bullpen.

Tabata is the only high ceiling prospect we gave up. And while losing him hurts a little, my guess is the Yankees decided his combination of attitudes problems and injuries made it unlikely he ever reaches his potential.

2008-07-25 17:27:55
179.   rbj
More from Ken Rosenthal at Fox:
"The Yankees have indicated that they will not give Washburn a contract extension or cash bonus for waiving his no-trade rights, but the source said that Washburn would not necessarily require either inducement, saying, "There are ways around that.""

Yes, Jerrod, the way around it is going from a last place team to a legit shot at the postseason.

2008-07-25 17:28:16
180.   RIYank
Ahhhh, down goes Drew.

Joba's pitching really well, I'm happy. I'll try not to think about the trade for a while.

2008-07-25 17:28:23
181.   randym77
Rotoworld is reporting a different set of prospects being traded to the Bucs. One of them is Austin Jackson.
2008-07-25 17:28:23
182.   randym77
Rotoworld is reporting a different set of prospects being traded to the Bucs. One of them is Austin Jackson.
2008-07-25 17:28:41
183.   Raf
171 No, you hold on to them and make a better deal
2008-07-25 17:29:01
184.   OldYanksFan
After 4. Beckett w/70, Joba w/59. Yankees need to work pitches over these next 2 innings.
2008-07-25 17:29:26
185.   Alex Belth
Agreed. They must really not believed in Tabata. I like Nady fine, he's not great but he's pretty good. Marte too.
2008-07-25 17:29:31
186.   ChrisS
150 And the treadmill continues.

"it's not like they mortgaged the franchise's future"

No but they wasted one of their better positional prospects on a near replacement level OFer having a fluke year. Talk about selling low and buying high. What could Tabata have brought next year or over the winter? Regardless of giving up Tabata, trading for Nady is borderline retarded.

If he's going to trade for someone and give up one of the few decent prospects he has, get someone with value.

This team has been so frustrating over the last 10 years and it's just getting worse.

2008-07-25 17:30:17
187.   ms october
180 i'm going to join you - joba is pitching quite well and i am not going to think about the trade for a bit.
2008-07-25 17:30:57
188.   rbj
Buster Olney at ESPN is reporting the same 4:
Ross Ohlendorf, George Kontos, Phil Coke and Jose Tabata.
2008-07-25 17:32:03
189.   nick
Michael Kay (also Waldman etc)--those people all think that we're getting this year's Nady--sure, if I think the guy will put up a 140 OPS+ for the Yanks the rest of this year, I pull the trigger so fast it'll make your head spin.....I'm gonna say, hmmm, RHB, Yankee Stadium, tougher league: 110 OPS+ the rest of the year.
2008-07-25 17:32:18
190.   seattleyank
186 I think you're not getting the meaning of "replacement level." Replacement level is a theoretical player you could get from AAA. Replacement level is NOT league average. Nady is average or a little better, which is a lot better than replacement level.
2008-07-25 17:32:54
191.   OldYanksFan
Does anyone know how Nady rates on D? That is a piece of the puzzle.
2008-07-25 17:34:03
192.   RichB
177 Yeah, actually, let me backtrack a bit - I was overreacting. Tabata is very questionable, since he hasn't done well in AA this year. I really like Ohlendorf and think he just needs some more work. And, by all accounts Coke has good potential. To say that they will be quality is over-reaching, granted. Still, Nady and Marte are okay, but definitely not long-term guys.
2008-07-25 17:35:09
193.   rbj
Well tonight's LF is Brett Gardner. I think Nady is an upgrade there.
2008-07-25 17:35:15
194.   nick
Beckett a lucky sob tonight; then again, Joba's had a little of his own..
2008-07-25 17:35:22
195.   tommyl
Still waiting to hear on Nady's contract status. How many years and at what cost? Anyone know?
2008-07-25 17:36:16
196.   monkeypants
191 Will he play much D? Unless Johnny is really, really hurting, he goes back into LF and Nady becomes the DH, no?
2008-07-25 17:36:21
197.   Just fair
Corner outfielder with some right handed pop. Check.
A solid lefty to improve an already solid pen. Check. Like most trades, however, we can't really grade it unless we hop into the Back to Future Delorean and see where everyone stands in 3-5 years.
2008-07-25 17:36:47
198.   Travis08
195 One year, about $3.4 million (pro-rated). Arbitration-eligible next year.
2008-07-25 17:36:55
199.   ChrisS
178 Superfluous because the bullpen is fine and there are good enough arms in the minors to replace Ahoy Latroy. A lefty specialist for $6 mill? Seriously? Relievers grow on trees.

I don't know what I like more about Nady, his career 4:1 K:BB ratio or that he's now on his 5th team in his 5 year ML career.

2008-07-25 17:36:55
200.   JL25and3
183 They've been waiting for that better deal for a long time. There may not be one.

The question is, how willing are you to give up on this season? A 6-man lineup doesn't stack up well. To tell you the truth, I've had some ambivalence about the Yankees making this run, for precisely this reason. It more or less forces them to look for solutions for this year alone.

But if they've soured on Tabata, they haven't hurt themselves, either.

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2008-07-25 17:37:23
201.   SF Yanks
The more I think about it, the more I like the trade. I always start on one side and end up on the other by the end of it.
2008-07-25 17:37:23
202.   RichB
191 His BP card says he 's a minus in center and left, and a mixed bag (depending on your measure) in right.

2008-07-25 17:37:45
203.   Raf
191 Better than Bonds

195 Xavier Nady of
1 year/$3.35M (2008)

* re-signed 1/18/08 (avoided arbitration)
* performance bonuses: $25,000 for 475 PAs, $50,000 for 500 PAs, $55,000 each for 550, 575 PAs, $65,000 for 600 PAs
* 1 year/$2.15M (2007), re-signed 1/07 (avoided arbitration)
* 1 year/$0.427M (2006), signed 3/06
* 1 year/$0.488M (2005)
* 5 years/$2.85M (2000-04)
o $1.1M bonus ($0.1M up front)
o $1.75M in salary, paid 2001-2004
o bonuses based on days on 25-man roster, 2002-04
o earned $0.275M incentive for more than 60 days on roster in 04
* drafted 2000 (2-49), signed 9/00
* agent: Scott Boras
* ML service: 4.059

~from Cot's baseball contracts~

2008-07-25 17:39:06
204.   monkeypants
Nady's OF range factor (career) is 2.22, and for his 394 games in RF it is 2.13.

Is that good?

Now, he can play some 1B (79 G).

2008-07-25 17:39:12
205.   JL25and3
192 You may be right about the pitchers, I don't know. But they've got enough other guys with at least that much potential that losing these two doesn't hurt any long-range plans.
2008-07-25 17:39:13
206.   RIYank
189 But OPS+ is park-adjusted, so your prediction would have to be based on something else.
2008-07-25 17:39:46
207.   OldYanksFan
Nady has an .820ish OPS over the last 4 years. Matsui is an .850 OPS guy with poor D. If Nady is a good glove/arm, he is a solid player. My only issue with Marte is that he has only averaged about 50 IP over the last 4 years.

We should remember that sonething like only 3% of MiLB players have any kind of MLB careers. At least we KNOW NAdy and Marte can be successful in MLB.

2008-07-25 17:40:16
208.   JoeInRI
Joba My Joba
2008-07-25 17:40:45
209.   nick
so: can this team, as constituted after the trade, finish ahead of either Boston or Tampa Bay and snag the WC? my Magic 8-ball says "CHANCES ARE GOOD"--it's a Magic Fanboy 8-Ball, though....
2008-07-25 17:41:08
210.   ChrisS
190 Sorry, I meant league average.

197 And looking back on Cashman's trade history, the guys he brings in have usually been here for a couple of seasons at most. At which point, there is an urgent need to trade away some prospects to fill that hole.

2008-07-25 17:41:23
211.   Just fair
Hey, there's a game on. Joba looks pretty good.
2008-07-25 17:41:49
212.   Eirias
I Heart Joba.
2008-07-25 17:41:52
213.   OldYanksFan
Marte is making under $3m this year. The clun has a $6m option for 2009.
2008-07-25 17:42:01
214.   RIYank
Great inning, except Joba lost his pitch count advantage (largely because of that DP last inning).

I wouldn't be sad if this game came down to a battle of bullpens in the 7th, 8th, 9th...

2008-07-25 17:42:25
215.   ms october
joba has all 4 pitches - for sure 3 - going extremely well tonight
2008-07-25 17:42:41
216.   monkeypants
201 It all depends on Tabata, as 200 et al have pointed out. If Tabata has really fallen that far on the organizational chart, then it's a good trade.

Unless of course the organizational chart is bogus and he turns into Manny Ramirez v. 2.0.

2008-07-25 17:43:10
217.   JL25and3
199 Marte's a lefty, but not a lefty specialist. He can get righties out, too.

I'm on record opposing trades for middle relief. But, again, it all depends on whether you want to win this year. They're close enough that I can't kill them for deciding to make a run for it.

2008-07-25 17:43:18
218.   ChrisS
200 I am absolutely willing to miss the post season this year if it makes the Yankees a stronger team for the next 2-4 years.

And if Michael Kay is happy about the trade, that tells me all I need to know.

2008-07-25 17:43:43
219.   tommyl
203 Thanks. Is he a type A?
2008-07-25 17:43:47
220.   rbj
~raises his beer to the Goose~
2008-07-25 17:44:29
221.   RIYank
216 That's how I'm feeling too.

Well, look at it this way. If we can sign up a good FA OF in the off season, maybe that makes the loss of Tabata quite bearable. I wonder if Cashman has some plan for our OF.

2008-07-25 17:46:08
222.   RIYank
217 I agree completely about not trading for relievers. If we were having real bullpen trouble, I'd be happier about Marte; as it is, he's another guy to plug in and some insurance if one of our guys currently going good starts to fray... but I don't feel like he adds much.
2008-07-25 17:46:09
223.   Travis08
219 Nady won't be a free agent until after the 2009 season. If he keeps up his 2008 production for the next year-and-a-half, he'll be a Type A.
2008-07-25 17:46:53
224.   JL25and3
216 At some point you have to take a chance.

It depends on their thinking. If they think Tabata's going to be really good but, what the hell, let's pay whatever it takes - then it was reckless and stupid. But if they've made their best assessment and decided that Tabata isn't a big-time player in the long run, then it's not a bad trade.

2008-07-25 17:47:07
225.   ChrisS
my last comment on the trade, and I'm going back to the game.

"They're close enough that I can't kill them for deciding to make a run for it."

They've been one piece away every year for the last 6 years and they've tried filling that hole only to open another, which makes them one piece away the next season.

2008-07-25 17:47:08
226.   OldYanksFan
This is not a steal. It is not an Abreu for peanuts deal. But these guys are solid and improve the club. They are not expensive. 3 of the 4 were very expendable, and we don't know the story on Tabata. But maybe the Yankees do.

It might also mean that JD is not 100% and will DH a bit.

This is not a bad deal. I think considering everybody is clamoring for Hughes, IPK and Cano, we did OK.

2008-07-25 17:47:11
227.   JoeInRI
Is Nady an eventual replacement for Abreu?
2008-07-25 17:47:38
228.   RIYank
Lay off that curve!!!
Ah, that's more like it...
2008-07-25 17:47:41
229.   tommyl
According to Rosenthal, Nady is signed through 2009 (but perhaps he's wrong?) and so serves as insurance for Bobby Abreu next year.

Marte has a club option for next year, but the Yankees could decline and offer arbitration, perhaps picking up a few draft picks.

2008-07-25 17:48:08
230.   monkeypants
221 For next year, Nady might be able to replace declining Abreu, of have I made a mistake with his contract. Then you have Damon (and Matsui) for LF. That leaves the same hole in CF--either they ride out another year of Melky or Gardner develops a bit more...and they keep it warm until A-Jax shows up.
2008-07-25 17:48:36
231.   Raf
I don't love or hate the trade, I think they could've done better.

This is a wakeup call for Tabata. The Yanks sold low on him, and bought high on Nady.

2008-07-25 17:49:51
232.   OldYanksFan
What hole did they 'open' with this trade? Tabata, if he made it, wasn't due up until 2011.
2008-07-25 17:49:52
233.   rbj
227 , 229 That's what I was thinking too. Nady in LF for this year, then next year he's in right with Damon in left with Matsui DH. Tex at 1B, with a "see you around" to Giambi?
2008-07-25 17:50:34
234.   monkeypants
225 I know you have finished commenting on this topic, but what have the Yankees given up in the last six years at the trade deadline? What holes have they opened with mid-season trades?
2008-07-25 17:51:03
235.   RIYank
Jeez, lay off that curve, guys. Holy moly.

Oh well. Beckett's just good. But his heater is hittable tonight.

2008-07-25 17:52:21
236.   JL25and3
218 Fair enough. But the Yankees are in a position where they could actually win the division, and I can understand why they wouldn't want to throw in the towel.

Again, I don't think the pitchers they gave up have any bearing on the team's success over the next 2-4 years. It all depends on Tabata. And given his steps backwards this year, how likely is it that he'll be a major contributor in that time frame?

2008-07-25 17:53:52
237.   monkeypants
Wisdom from Sterling: "If anyone looks at this trade from a Yankees perspective and doesn't like it...they are...[pause]...looking at a glass half full."

What does that mean, exactly? Very Delphic.

2008-07-25 17:54:59
238.   JoeInRI
I'm so done on Melky
2008-07-25 17:55:02
239.   RIYank
Argh. Robbie needed to do a little more. Oh well. Ran up Beckett's pitch count at least.
2008-07-25 17:56:17
240.   OldYanksFan
237 Don't you get it? It means 'the glass' is half empty. It also means that Sterling is losing his powers of speech.
2008-07-25 17:57:06
241.   mehmattski
If it's Tabata and not Jackson going, I really like this trade. It makes the Yankees better this year, and doesn't sacrifice the team for years to come. It's exactly the kind of deal I was hoping for.

The Yankees bullpen just got scary good, folks.

2008-07-25 17:57:38
242.   Jeb
My two cents: I'm okay with this deal. If the price for Nady was Tabata + the others and the price for Bay was AJax + the others, I'll take door number 1 and Xavier Nady. (I hope Kay and Sterling know how to pronounce the name Xavier because it's NOT X-Zavier - just a pet peeve of mine).

A lot of people complain that with Melky + Molina + Brett we have 3 nearly automatic outs. So now with Nady, Brett can become a pinch hitter and LIDR and we have 7 decent hitters in our lineup as opposed to 6. (Decent is a relative term of course since most of those 7 are much more than decent).

And no one was going to just give away players to us. Also, who knew the Tabata was going to turn into a mental combination of Carl Everett, Milton Bradley and Manny Ramirez? I don't know the Yanks could have known that to dump him last year for a better player. I wish they had. Hell, Ramirez is supposed to be Tabata's hero and that guy is a Grade-A Asshole.

So if Tabata doesn't make it, it will be a good deal.

2008-07-25 17:57:44
243.   Raf
237 It's Sterling, it doesn't mean anything :)
2008-07-25 17:57:57
244.   monkeypants
240 "It also means that Sterling is losing his powers of speech."

The fourth sign of the apocalypse...

2008-07-25 17:58:12
245.   OldYanksFan
Beckett at 94 pitches, Joba at 75 thru 5. It means we see Beckett in the 7th. We missed. We needed some better ABs that last inning.
2008-07-25 17:58:37
246.   RIYank
Jacoby, did you like that curve?
2008-07-25 17:58:40
247.   mehmattski
Although, folks who agree with me probably shouldn't take a look at Nady's "Similar Players" on baseball-reference. Not who you want to see on there...
2008-07-25 17:58:47
248.   tommyl
Hey, Joba is um, really good. Where's the morons who thought he should stay in the pen?
2008-07-25 17:59:37
249.   rbj
246 Yes I did.
2008-07-25 17:59:47
250.   Travis08
Trades in June or later since 2003:

Marcus Thames for Ruben Sierra.
Jason Anderson, Anderson Garcia, and Ryan Bicandoa for Armando Benitez.
Raul Mondesi and cash for David Dellucci and Bret Prinz.
Brandon Claussen for Aaron Boone.
Robin Ventura for Scott Proctor and Bubba Crosby.
Armando Benitez for Jeff Nelson.
Two minor leaguers for Sterling Hitchcock.

Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2008-07-25 17:59:50
251.   ms october
a stache gets a neck beard out
2008-07-25 18:00:01
252.   monkeypants
242 "So if Tabata doesn't make it, it will be a good deal. "

Or, if Nady/Marte puts them over the tops this year it's a good trade.

2008-07-25 18:00:10
253.   RIYank
245 I totally disagree. It means we see Beckett at low effectiveness (probably) in the seventh. He isn't immune to the drop-off in effectiveness at 95.
2008-07-25 18:00:24
254.   Travis08
Jose Contreras for Esteban Loaiza.
2008-07-25 18:01:03
255.   tommyl
So is Nady signed for next year or not? That makes a difference to me when judging this trade.
2008-07-25 18:01:03
256.   OldYanksFan
Joba-Wang-Hughes could be a really, really good 1-2-3 for years to come. What does Joba need to do before we proclaim him an ace?
2008-07-25 18:02:11
257.   Travis08
Paul Quantrill for Darrell May and Tim Redding.
Ramon Ramirez and Eduardo Sierra for Shawn Chacon.
Justin Berg for Matt Lawton.
2008-07-25 18:02:18
258.   monkeypants
250 Right. So only ONE of those trades (Thames/Sierra) opened up a whole that year or the next (the Yanks would have killed to have Thames as a RH bat/DH/OF). Most of deals were fluff-for-stuff trades.
2008-07-25 18:02:30
259.   RIYank
255 Cot's Baseball Contracts says he's signed only this year.
2008-07-25 18:02:35
260.   tommyl
Ortiz, speedy he is not.
2008-07-25 18:02:59
261.   tommyl
259 But PeteAbe and Rosenthal say he's signed through 2009.
2008-07-25 18:03:21
262.   Travis08
Hector Made for Sal Fasano
Four players (see sidebar) for Bobby Abreu and Cory Lidle.
Shawn Chacon for Craig Wilson.
2008-07-25 18:04:04
263.   tommyl
Rosenthal says:

The addition of Nady, a free agent after the 2009 season, protects the Yankees against the potential loss of right fielder Bobby Abreu, who is a free agent after this season.

2008-07-25 18:04:09
264.   OldYanksFan
Joba w/89 pitches thru 6, 1 BB, 7 Ks. Not too shabby.
2008-07-25 18:04:13
265.   RIYank
261 On what authority? I mean, what's their reference, do they say? Cot's is reliable, no?
2008-07-25 18:04:14
266.   Travis08
259 261 He's not signed for 2009, but he's Yankee property unless they decide not to offer him arbitration. He won't have enough service time to be a free agent.
2008-07-25 18:04:17
267.   mehmattski
Nady is not eligible for free agency until after 2009. He has one more arbitration year, this offseason. He made $3.35M this year, I'd guess it would go up to $8 million or more next year.
2008-07-25 18:04:31
268.   Jeb
252 I can agree with that if we win the world series. Of course, if Tabata turns into Willie Mays and hits 600 homers and bats .310/.414/.620 for his career and we would have won 5 titles with him, then NO, putting us over the top wouldn't be worth it.

Of course, that's a pretty damn unrealistic statement, I'm just saying "what it", but I agree with you.

2008-07-25 18:04:32
269.   Just fair
Dear Bronx Banterers,
Forget the trade talk. Have you seen what my boy is doing? 6 IP. No runs. Not a ball hit hard since the 2nd inning. Not too shabby.
2008-07-25 18:04:50
270.   Raf
255 It appears that he has 4+ years of service time which would imply the Yanks control him for another year
2008-07-25 18:04:50
271.   RIYank
266 Oh, right. You already said that, didn't you?
2008-07-25 18:05:14
272.   claybeez
242 Agreed on the pronunciation. It's my boy's name. Lots of people pronounce it "X" first. We don't sweat it, just offer a simple correction. However, IIRC, Nady is an X-Zavier guy.
2008-07-25 18:05:27
273.   Travis08
Jeff Kennard for Jose Molina.
Scott Proctor for Wilson Betemit.
2008-07-25 18:05:58
274.   Eirias
Leiter is really, really sardonic.
2008-07-25 18:06:14
275.   RIYank
Brett thinking to self: "Whatever. I'm history."
2008-07-25 18:06:39
276.   monkeypants's an 0-2 count on Gardner. That's just freaky...
2008-07-25 18:06:46
277.   Travis08
272 "Xavier Clifford Nady, or Xavier VI, said he did not know much about his early ancestry, other than he pronounces his first name differently, putting a modern-day signature on a 16th-century name. Nady's father pronounces it ZAY-vee-yer — "That's the correct way," Nady said. But Nady, whose Mets teammates call him X or X-Man, prefers EX-ay-vee-yer to, ahem, exaggerate the X."

2008-07-25 18:07:09
278.   OldYanksFan
Nady is ONLY signed for THIS YEAR. No options for 2009.
Nady: 1 year/$3.35M (2008)
Damaso Marte 2 years/$4.7M (2007-08), plus $6M 2009 club option
2008-07-25 18:07:11
279.   tommyl
265 They don't give one, so I don't know. If he's signed through 2009 that makes the move better to me, because it also replaces Abreu next year which was looming as a possible gaping hole. Then you play Melky in CF till Ajax is ready and Melky can be the 4th OF.

Ooooh, that's the deepest Brett has hit a ball yet!

2008-07-25 18:07:24
280.   RIYank
And ironically he gets his second nicely hit ball of the night, with no good result to show for it.

It's been real, Brett. See you again!

2008-07-25 18:07:28
281.   Just fair
Brett, thanks for the effort, but you're headed back to Scranton to play on a daily basis. Practice hitting line drives and balls on the ground.
2008-07-25 18:07:45
282.   monkeypants
274 Sterling is really, really moronic. And bombastic.
2008-07-25 18:08:15
283.   RIYank
I think we get the Nady situation now. Not signed next year, but under Yankee control because of ML service.
2008-07-25 18:08:42
284.   mehmattski
278 See 276 , 277 . Nady cannot become a free agent after this season, as he has only five years MLB service.
2008-07-25 18:08:53
285.   rbj
89 pitches in 6 innings is about 15 per inning. Decent, though I'd like to see him be a bit more economical.

I'd also like to see the Yankees score more runs.

2008-07-25 18:09:12
286.   RIYank
Okay, Beckett took a few more pitches than expected, but I predict he's now lost it...
2008-07-25 18:09:34
287.   claybeez
277 Good stuff. Thanks.
2008-07-25 18:09:43
288.   tommyl
284 So he's arb. elgible then?
2008-07-25 18:10:01
289.   monkeypants
279 Good points. See 230 . ; )
2008-07-25 18:10:23
290.   mehmattski
Aww, I was hoping for some Mike Timlin, but its Delcarmen in the pen.
2008-07-25 18:10:32
291.   RichB
279 Ack, no... We need a replacement for Melky next year too. His defense doesn't remotely make up for his awful offense.
2008-07-25 18:10:49
292.   tommyl
And when Abreu goes as a FA he'll surely be a type A, yes? So we get two draft picks. I'm starting to like this move more.
2008-07-25 18:10:50
293.   Travis08
288 See 153 , 198
2008-07-25 18:11:40
294.   tommyl
289 Sorry mp, was folding laundry and missed that one on the refresh.
2008-07-25 18:11:45
295.   mehmattski
291 Next year's outfield:

LF: Damon
CF: Nady
RF: Dunn

2008-07-25 18:12:06
296.   ms october
to me that the "window" on this team is sort of now but sort of later is what makes knowing what to do difficult and thus how do evaluate this trade.
do you try to make a run for a championship now while most of your position players are still productive but in some stage of decline and you have mo anchoring the bullpen and your rotation is adequate (because of the back end) or do you wait a year or 2 for more of your pitchers to develop but your primary position players have declined further or their deals are up and you have to acquire at least 4 position players?

bah - back to the game.

2008-07-25 18:12:17
297.   tommyl
293 Ah! Missed that too! Thanks guys, sorry for repeating myself.
2008-07-25 18:12:32
298.   Travis08
295 That might be the worst defensive outfield in recent memory.
2008-07-25 18:13:14
299.   tommyl
291 His name is Action Jackson, patience young one.
2008-07-25 18:13:36
300.   OldYanksFan
"Decent, though I'd like to see him be a bit more economical."
Yeah... it's true. Maybe he will be BETTER WHEN HE IS 23!
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2008-07-25 18:13:46
301.   RIYank
Oh, man, dammit.
We've knocked on the door a lot of times.
2008-07-25 18:14:32
302.   Raf
295 You don't think Damon plays CF?
2008-07-25 18:15:05
303.   RIYank
Okay, if Joba pitches another scoreless inning, we have to be significant favorites.
2008-07-25 18:15:14
304.   Travis08
298 Actually, Matsui-Old Bernie-Sheffield might have been worse.
2008-07-25 18:15:20
305.   mehmattski
298 Who knows if Nady can play CF full-time, but he's got a .902 RZR this year, which is pretty good. Damon is in the top 3 among all left-fielders in RZR this year. Dunn is league-average in left this year for the Reds, at .901.
2008-07-25 18:15:20
306.   rbj
300 Yes, indeed.
2008-07-25 18:16:18
307.   RIYank
Uh oh.
2008-07-25 18:16:25
308.   monkeypants
OK, if this score holds, we better see some PH and bench tactics in the 8th and 9th.
2008-07-25 18:16:42
309.   Raf
296 Whatever they don't develop, they'll get on the market.

Shutup Kay, the pitch got away

2008-07-25 18:16:44
310.   Just fair
Never a dull moment.
2008-07-25 18:16:45
311.   tommyl
Well, that should make this game a bit more tense.
2008-07-25 18:16:58
312.   RIYank
What the??? That must have been deliberate, but what the hell is he thinking??
2008-07-25 18:17:05
313.   ms october
damn - it's like this guy wants to be hit by joba
2008-07-25 18:17:06
314.   mehmattski
Haha. What is Joba's problem with Youk? I guess it's just a factor of pitching him inside.

I wonder how Mr. Play the Game Right will respond.

2008-07-25 18:17:38
315.   rbj
I'm not sure it was deliberate.
2008-07-25 18:17:39
316.   RIYank
309 You think it just got away?? With the control he's had all night? I can't believe it.
2008-07-25 18:17:55
317.   RichB
299 Eh... don't count on him until late next year, if that soon. He could easily have an adjustment period in AAA and not be ready until 2010. Not saying that we need to go out and get some big name, but we need someone to give us at least average production.
2008-07-25 18:18:06
318.   tommyl
Now, I think Youk is a crybaby, but he has a right to be upset there. That was at his head.
2008-07-25 18:18:25
319.   OldYanksFan
Jerry Remy says: "With a 2-0 count in a 1-0 game, there is no way that is intentional. The last thing he wants to do is hit Youk. I mean.. common!"

Remy is cool.

2008-07-25 18:18:26
320.   Just fair
Come on back on strike him out, Joba.
2008-07-25 18:18:54
321.   RIYank
Wait, that bean ball was a strike!
Oh, it was a foul.
2008-07-25 18:18:59
322.   bartap74
The Greek God of whining.
2008-07-25 18:19:02
323.   Jeb
I love Joba throwing at Pukulis.
2008-07-25 18:19:07
324.   rbj
316 I just can't think that Joba would be stupid enough to continue head hunting Youk.
2008-07-25 18:19:13
325.   Travis08
Who gets hit next: A-Rod or Jeter?
2008-07-25 18:19:27
326.   RIYank
Well, I hope Remy is right.
2008-07-25 18:20:24
327.   RIYank
324 I like to think that's true. But the thing is, his control has been great, and it would be quite a coincidence if the guy he almost hit, by mistake, just happened to be Youk.
2008-07-25 18:20:31
328.   mehmattski
I think Joba knows exactly what he's doing. To make another Bull Durham reference... he's "throwing one at the Bull."
2008-07-25 18:20:31
329.   Raf
316 The situation doesn't call for it, as referred to post 319
2008-07-25 18:20:47
330.   ms october
joba is still throwing great but he looks either annoyed or upset about the whole thing
2008-07-25 18:20:54
331.   RIYank
Jesus. It's like he's announcing, "Oh, my control is just fine, bros."
2008-07-25 18:20:58
332.   OldYanksFan
All of Joba's Ks are on the curveball. AND THAT'S HIS 3rd BEST PITCH!
2008-07-25 18:21:00
333.   tommyl
Joba is sort of absolutely fucking incredible.
2008-07-25 18:21:21
334.   Just fair
Somewhere Bob Gibson is smiling. Awesome
2008-07-25 18:21:49
335.   tommyl
Ah shit, Abreu, A-Rod and Giambi up this inning. Who's getting a ball thrown at them?
2008-07-25 18:21:59
336.   Raf
328 There's no need for it. Then again, if it provokes Beckett to do something stupid to get himself thrown out of the game, it may be worth it.
2008-07-25 18:22:00
337.   nick
how often has Joba pitched to Molina before?
2008-07-25 18:22:04
338.   randym77
Man, I thought that was a HBP. Seems like it hit something.
2008-07-25 18:22:06
339.   vockins
That half inning was 100% kick ass.
2008-07-25 18:22:42
340.   Jeb
So, Joba gets to be the 8th inning guy tonight? Best of both worlds, no?
2008-07-25 18:23:10
341.   vockins
331 Word.
2008-07-25 18:23:15
342.   tommyl
334 I disagree. Coming inside is one thing, plunking a guy in the back is another. Uncorking 95mph at a guys head (even a Red Sock) is not cool. That could literally be life threatening.
2008-07-25 18:23:25
343.   RIYank
338 It hit the bat. That's how he managed to strike out Youk two pitches later.
2008-07-25 18:23:38
344.   rsmith51
340 102 pitches...

He is done.

2008-07-25 18:24:46
345.   OldYanksFan
338 Hit the bat and was a strike. And then Youk chases a curve out of the zone for a K. Priceless. Pitchers have been warned. If we are hit now, there will be a suspension... and hopefully a brawl.... WITH FARNSWORTH TAKING DOWN YOUK!
2008-07-25 18:24:46
346.   mehmattski
337 He's thrown to 144 batters with Molina, versus 221 with Posada (and 25 with Moeller).
2008-07-25 18:24:58
347.   tommyl
Well, here comes Kyle into a 1 run game. This should be interesting...
2008-07-25 18:25:03
348.   rbj
327 Agreed. But Joba should know that deliberately targeting Youk's head -- even just being in the area is going to cause problems simply because of the history. I think Joba was throwing inside, but that one just got away. It can happen even when you have good control, one pitch slips a bit.
2008-07-25 18:25:42
349.   monkeypants
340 Nope--it's gonna be Farnsworth.

What more could Joba have done tonight? I guess they could have let him bat...

2008-07-25 18:26:23
350.   Shaun P
Remy says that no way Joba intentionally threw at Youk. I've always liked Remy.

I'm happy with the trade. One thing to keep in mind on Tabata; so far, all his value is in his batting average. He was a highly-regarded prospect because, at 18, he hit over .300 in the FSL with a little pop. This year, he's sucked. He's shown little power, ever, and for a future RF, that's not good. Maybe it develops, but right now, I'm skeptical. Yes, he's only 19, but he seems to have at least another 3 years of development to get anywhere. And he's got to go on the 40-man after the 2010 season; anyone really think he'll be ready for the majors by then? I don't.

I wish it was Bay coming back, not Nady, but I'm not concerned by what the Yanks gave up.

Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2008-07-25 18:26:30
351.   tommyl
349 He does sort of look like Babe Ruth ;)
2008-07-25 18:27:11
352.   OldYanksFan
Plus, Joba hitting Youk in the head intentionally would be a second offense, and the suspension could be serious. No reason for Joba to do that. Could change the complexion of the game. He overthrew that pitch and it got away.
2008-07-25 18:27:23
353.   Raf
345 Just make sure no one tries to throw a ball into the dugout.
2008-07-25 18:27:29
354.   Jeb
342 Life threatening? Goose nailed Cey in the head and he didn't die. The last time someone died from that in the Majors was in 1919 or 1920 when they didn't wear helmets. NO OFFENSE, I just think that's maybe a bit dramatic.

My thought is that Joba doesn't hate him or anything, but Youk is a damn good hitter and Joba has to own the inside part of that plate in order to get him out. If Joba gets in his head, so much the better. That's pitching, my man. Hitting is about timing and pitching is about disrputing timing and that's been the same for over 100 years.

It's not about being cool -- it's about intimidating him and moving his arrogant ass off that plate. That's baseball.

The sox have understood that everytime they bean one of our players.

2008-07-25 18:28:03
355.   RIYank
348 Okay, that's a logical explanation. He was telling Youk, "I'm still coming inside, even though I'm supposed to be very careful with you." And then he missed by a little.

I can buy that.

2008-07-25 18:28:45
356.   Raf
And it's not like Joba was struggling; there's no need for him to throw at anyone. The pitch got away.
2008-07-25 18:28:48
357.   tommyl
350 I'm more soured on Tabata's attitude problems. The guy's been suspended multiple times this year, and that was before the injury. Still, the potential is there. Ohlendorf and Kontos are decent, but I don't see them as irreplaceable. We've been clamoring for them to flip some of their pitching depth, who else should they have added. Coke I was high on, but the Yankees have seen him a whole lot more than I have.

As for Bay, I'm guessing the price was more in the IPK or Austin Jackson territory, in which case I'm not for that.

2008-07-25 18:28:51
358.   rsmith51
Yanks need some runs. Robbie will deliver...
2008-07-25 18:30:12
359.   RIYank
I think Joba might come back out for the eighth.
2008-07-25 18:30:45
360.   Jeb
And now for the important question, what will Sterling's Nady homer call be?
2008-07-25 18:30:52
361.   tommyl
354 Ah Jeb, you misunderstand me. I believe that pitch just got away from Joba, I wasn't getting on him. I was more upset about the people on here saying how awesome it was. Had he just thrown inside I'd be with them, but anything at the head is just really not cool to me. I was a bit overdramatic but a 95mph fastball at someone's head is a scary, scary thing.
2008-07-25 18:31:19
362.   Travis08
360 "X marks the spot."
2008-07-25 18:31:21
363.   RIYank
Oh, crud. Come on, Alex, you can hit that. Fug.
2008-07-25 18:31:21
364.   51cq24
uh, i'm not surprised that a guy who sets himself up almost in the strike zone gets pitches thrown near him
2008-07-25 18:31:24
365.   randym77
353 That was pathetic. I hope that guy gets jail time.
2008-07-25 18:33:37
366.   OldYanksFan
I think because of the Justice and Abreu deals, fans expect magic, high impact deals all the time. That's not real. The Molina trade WAS very important. Proctor was done, and while Betemit is no great shakes, that was a good deal. And this deal was a good deal too. We got some talent that we needed, and traded some potential talent.

But the Yankees probably know something about Tabata, and I'm sure this deal works in concert with plans for the near future.

Folks... Cashman AIN'T NO DUMMY. I'm sure the deal was discussed amongst many FO people and a lot of thought went into it. I'm mean, maybe Cashman isn't as knowledgable as ChrisS, but he ain't dumb.

2008-07-25 18:34:12
367.   Gagne55
357 "Coke I was high on"


2008-07-25 18:34:13
368.   Raf
365 If he does, I'm sure he'll be comforted by the fact that he played the game the right way and had his teammate's back.
2008-07-25 18:34:16
369.   monkeypants
360 "Put that in the X-Files!"
2008-07-25 18:34:19
370.   RIYank
Very interesting bullpen use! Not 100% intentional, but interesting anyway.
2008-07-25 18:34:41
371.   nick
354 I'm with Jeb here--but really, I think the way to cut this whole Gordian knot would be to strictly enforce the batter's box, strictly to the extent of one violation=automatic strike, second=automatic out. that way the whole dangerous game could be avoided...
2008-07-25 18:34:46
372.   Jeb
361 I gotcha. I like him throwing OVER his head occasionally (and don't want him to hit him in the head) so that he gets inside Pukilis's head and makes him back up a little.


2008-07-25 18:34:49
373.   OldYanksFan
360 The X-Bomb!
2008-07-25 18:35:58
374.   nick
giambi goes deep here....
2008-07-25 18:36:32
375.   Raf
366 Don't think the cheap shot was necessary.
2008-07-25 18:36:35
376.   monkeypants
371 Moreover, I agree with Bil James--they should move the batters box a couple of inches away from the plate, to compensate for batters hanging over the inside half, with their elbows in the strike zone.
2008-07-25 18:36:44
377.   RIYank
Okay, this long half inning will mean we see Kyle, not Joba.
2008-07-25 18:36:49
378.   rbj
371 And get rid of all the bleeping elbow armor batter wear.
2008-07-25 18:37:45
379.   RIYank
Whoa. So, Giambi has been terrible at bat tonight, and yet he's got the game's only RBI, and the only RISP hit.
2008-07-25 18:39:10
380.   OldYanksFan
375 True. Sorry. I guess I'm just reacting because maybe we fans should at least allow for the possibility that Cashman knows more then we do.
2008-07-25 18:40:06
381.   RIYank
Kind of interesting that Joe let Giambi bat against Okajima and then swapped Sexson in. I'm not saying it was wrong, but I'm surprised.
2008-07-25 18:40:23
382.   Jeb
I really like all these X calls for Sterling.

I tend to think that Sterling will yell out "EXXXXXX-cellent!", which is far less original than yours.

Someone said to look at the comparables for Nady. How in the hell is Shane Spencer a 971 career match?

2008-07-25 18:40:33
383.   RIYank
Uh oh. Don't tell me Bad Kyle has returned at a most inopportune time!
2008-07-25 18:40:36
384.   Raf
371 No need to get rid of it; if a batter's hit and is in the zone, the pitch is called either a ball or strike
2008-07-25 18:40:53
385.   OldYanksFan
Crap. Not a good time for the return of the real Farnsworth.
2008-07-25 18:41:11
386.   RIYank
A-Rod thinks Tek might bunt?
2008-07-25 18:41:17
387.   vockins
It's the Karl Farnsworth Experience, folks.
2008-07-25 18:41:42
388.   RichB
Argh! With one run? Farnsy?
2008-07-25 18:41:43
389.   RIYank
Oh, sweet. Thank god for Tek.
2008-07-25 18:42:06
390.   monkeypants
Girardi better have Mo ready to come in at any moment.
2008-07-25 18:42:23
391.   Raf
Look @ Tek trying to wave the ball foul :)
2008-07-25 18:42:37
392.   OldYanksFan
ARod has a funny way for calling popups: "Jeter... Jeter... Jeter.... Jeter..."
2008-07-25 18:42:40
393.   mehmattski
That was Farnsworth's first hit in 9 innings, by the way. He's very due.
2008-07-25 18:43:04
394.   monkeypants
384 But how often have you ever seen that call made?
2008-07-25 18:43:04
395.   RIYank
390 For five outs, definitely. Yes, he's up.
2008-07-25 18:43:22
396.   nick
if Kyle pitches the shutout inning, I'll officially believe. not yet.
2008-07-25 18:43:36
397.   51cq24
371 378 there should just be a rule that any pitch within a foot of the strike zone can't turn into a hbp. the current rule, that you should make an effort to avoid the pitch, is stupid because it makes you a better hitter if you just stay in on pitches and take them when they hit you.
2008-07-25 18:43:45
398.   RIYank
Yankees when leading after 8 innings:
2008-07-25 18:45:14
399.   OldYanksFan
Joba's ERA now at 2.30. 9 Ks, 1 BB in 7 IP.
2008-07-25 18:46:45
400.   rbj
397 Molina's knee was within a foot of the strike zone. I'd just say that if it hits any protective device (except helmets) then it isn't a HBP.


Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2008-07-25 18:46:49
401.   OldYanksFan
Farns need to get Crisp and Ellsbury...
2008-07-25 18:46:56
402.   RIYank
Come on, Kyle, blow one more by this Crisp...

Oh my god.

2008-07-25 18:47:00
403.   Jeb
397 Molina didn't avoid that pitch last Saturday.
2008-07-25 18:47:07
404.   Alex Belth
2008-07-25 18:47:26
405.   RIYank
Good call, Joe. I feel better.
2008-07-25 18:47:33
406.   monkeypants
Please don't blow this f-ing game.
2008-07-25 18:47:39
407.   mehmattski
Rivera for five outs. Gotta lock this one down.
2008-07-25 18:47:51
408.   51cq24
400 and although i like winning that game and you have to take it because it happens to other teams, that shouldn't have been a hbp
2008-07-25 18:48:02
409.   Alex Belth
Mo Time! Big task tonight.
2008-07-25 18:48:09
410.   weeping for brunnhilde
Wow, some game, eh, Team?

Here comes the Man Himself...

2008-07-25 18:48:22
411.   rbj
And Commissioner Girardi has turned on the Mo-signal.
2008-07-25 18:48:41
412.   Raf
394 Rarely. But the rule's there in the books, waiting to be enforced. Pads, shields and guards aren't going away.

oh boy... They wouldn't have gotten him anyway.

Mo's in

2008-07-25 18:48:51
413.   RIYank
The Farns knows more than one way to blow a game, huh? I bet you all thought it was HR or K...
2008-07-25 18:49:04
414.   OldYanksFan
It looked to me that Farns could have fielded that with 2 hands and flipped to first. Did he have plenty of time to do that? And Coco was well on the grass. How far 'out' do you need to be to be out of the basepath?
2008-07-25 18:49:25
415.   Jeb
400 So, Alex, you're predicting that Mo nails this one down....right?
2008-07-25 18:49:42
416.   51cq24
i thought he made the right play, that was the only way to get him and it looked to me like it was staying fair
2008-07-25 18:49:50
417.   RIYank
Okay, Ellsbury doesn't scare me, but Pedroia's just the kind of guy who can slap or bloop or broken-bat an RBI. I'm nervous. I am.
2008-07-25 18:49:56
418.   standuptriple
360 Yankees take another tab of "X"?
2008-07-25 18:50:52
419.   51cq24
414 i think 1b was empty
2008-07-25 18:51:13
420.   OldYanksFan
And again, defense may play a vital role in this game.
2008-07-25 18:51:27
421.   RIYank
Sit down, Jacoby.
2008-07-25 18:51:32
422.   Alex Belth
Mo vs Ellsbury.

1 out. Men on first and second.

Cutter, foul ball.

Cutter up in his kitchen, ties him up, swing and a miss, 0-2.

Fastball, outside, 1-2.

Fastball, outside corner, called strike three.


2008-07-25 18:51:36
423.   OldYanksFan
2008-07-25 18:51:38
424.   JL25and3
Good move by Girardi. Win this game rather than planning for tomorrow.
2008-07-25 18:51:56
425.   Alex Belth
2 out.

That dang, Pedrioa...

2008-07-25 18:52:02
426.   mehmattski
420 You mean like in the second inning when the Yankees' defense was excellent (Cabrera, Cano, and Jeter)?
2008-07-25 18:52:05
427.   standuptriple
414 I believe it's 3'. 1B line they have to stay in the "runners box" though. I'm on radio feed, so I defer.
2008-07-25 18:52:14
428.   Jeb
Mo, thou art great.
2008-07-25 18:52:21
429.   RIYank
How about moving Melky and Bobby in a couple of steps? Brett is already shallow. I like the fact that our OF has a decent chance of throwing Lourie out at the plate if there's a bloop or something.
2008-07-25 18:52:22
430.   Raf
If a pitcher hits the same spot twice in a row, more often than not the second time that pitch is called a strike, if it's borderline.
2008-07-25 18:53:08
431.   OldYanksFan
426 Yes. I cuts both ways.
2008-07-25 18:53:18
432.   OldYanksFan
IT cuts...
2008-07-25 18:53:18
433.   RIYank
430 Good point! And Mo got a break to strike out Ellsbury.
2008-07-25 18:53:26
434.   standuptriple
Sox announcer is claiming Joba should have been tossed.
2008-07-25 18:53:37
435.   Jeb
ok Mo...changeup now....
2008-07-25 18:54:02
436.   RIYank
That's how it's done!
2008-07-25 18:54:13
437.   mehmattski
<3 Mo.

Get this man some runs!

2008-07-25 18:54:14
438.   Alex Belth
Mo vs Dusty P

Cutter, outside corner, taken for a strike.

Cutter, outside, not a strike, fouled off. He poked at that one, 0-2.

Molina stands up at the last minute, but it is a cutter tailing too far outside, 1-2.

Molina goes out to talk to Mo.

Cutter, little come backer to Mo.

End of innning.

2008-07-25 18:54:18
439.   weeping for brunnhilde
Mariano Rivera, ladies and gentlemen.
2008-07-25 18:54:23
440.   rsmith51
I heart Mo...
2008-07-25 18:54:27
441.   standuptriple
Mmmm, softie.
2008-07-25 18:54:36
442.   rbj
Now please score some more runs.
2008-07-25 18:54:37
443.   ms october
sit down dustbin - that is the great mariano rivera you are facing.
2008-07-25 18:54:43
444.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
Mo is Buddha! stoic,calm, eternally wise and of the best players I have ever seen..
2008-07-25 18:54:50
445.   Raf
414 The ball would've stayed fair, Sexson & Farns were converging on it with Cano covering first. With Crisp's speed, that's an infield hit.

Regarding baseline, Farnsworth's obstructing him anyway, so he could've been awarded 1b.

2008-07-25 18:54:58
446.   OldYanksFan
And we dodge another bullet! God is on our side. And I mean that literally!
2008-07-25 18:55:10
447.   Chyll Will
2008-07-25 18:55:56
448.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
ugh, are they playing "Sister Golden Hair" on the PA at Fenway??!!
2008-07-25 18:56:09
449.   weeping for brunnhilde
444 It's really kind of unfathomable.
2008-07-25 18:56:13
450.   standuptriple
I would not want to see Mo after spending a significant time on the DL and your only prep is feasting on AAA pitching.
Show/Hide Comments 451-500
2008-07-25 18:56:13
451.   Jeb
What a gritty effort by Pedroia there. I could almost hear the grits shaking in his back pocket like a bunch of little maracas. In fact, he had a box of Jim Dandy grits waiting for him in the dugout.
2008-07-25 18:56:42
452.   vockins
The Alpha and the Omega
2008-07-25 18:57:25
453.   monkeypants
420 And yet defense proved not pivotal in that inning.
2008-07-25 18:57:47
454.   RIYank
450 Yeah, but did you really want to see Papi with the bases loaded or something? Gulp.
2008-07-25 18:58:13
455.   standuptriple
Sox announcer says the Pedroia pitch he was called out on was "outside by 9 inches". I have a hard time believing that.
2008-07-25 18:58:34
456.   Alex Belth
Grit this.
2008-07-25 18:58:47
457.   monkeypants
PH for Molina?
2008-07-25 18:58:53
458.   standuptriple
454 I'm thinking ahead a bit.
2008-07-25 18:59:57
459.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
Tipsy McGrittystaggers does scare me though, he gets great ABs..
Papi, Youk and Lowell coming up in the 9th!
2008-07-25 19:00:11
460.   monkeypants
457 I guess not. Old habits die hard...Girardi still thinks that he has a one man bench.
2008-07-25 19:00:17
461.   RIYank
455 No, very close, could have gone either way.

458 Ah, with the bases empty... Well, we're about to see it.

2008-07-25 19:01:22
462.   RIYank
I actually like having Molina in. What if Papi walks, or somebody hits a flare, and the Sox put in a pinch runner...
2008-07-25 19:02:10
463.   Travis08
457 Why would you pinch hit for Molina? His defense in the 9th in a one-run game is more important than the small chance of scoring with 2 outs, no one on, and Gardner on deck.
2008-07-25 19:02:28
464.   Alex Belth
Well, this is what they get paid the big bucks for...
2008-07-25 19:02:33
465.   standuptriple
459 Evil standuptriple is calling for Mo to buzz Youk.
2008-07-25 19:02:34
466.   Jeb
Tanpa up 3-1 in the 6th.
2008-07-25 19:03:43
467.   Alex Belth
Mo vs Cookie Monster.

Molina sets up inside for the cutter, pitch goes wild outside, Oritz swings and misses, 0-1.

Cutter in, Ortiz lofts a little fly ball to Abreu.

One out.

2008-07-25 19:03:44
468.   RIYank
That was soooo close to a typical Rivera single!
2008-07-25 19:03:51
469.   rbj
One down.
2008-07-25 19:03:54
470.   weeping for brunnhilde
I never like seeing him swing like that.

I was a little scared, I'll admit.

2008-07-25 19:03:56
471.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO strike out Big Baby Youk please!
2008-07-25 19:04:26
472.   RichB
So gamecast is saying that the Sox have, at the start of the inning, a 15% chance to score 2 or more runs...

I'm betting that they're not counting Mo in those probabilities.

2008-07-25 19:04:44
473.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
470 yep, Papi always scary
2008-07-25 19:04:47
474.   monkeypants
463 Maybe. I'm just musing, really. I would like to see the somewhat deeper bench used a little more agressively. FOr example, Sexson was added to hit against LHP, not as a defensive replacement for Giambi (hell, Sexson's defensive stats are worse, I believe).

If we must go with the toothless duo behind the dish, let's see some PH.

2008-07-25 19:05:14
475.   RIYank
Uh oh.
Yooooouk. Dammit.
2008-07-25 19:05:26
476.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
2008-07-25 19:05:28
477.   Alex Belth
Mo vs Youk

Cutter, outside, fouled off, 0-1.

Fastball, up and in, 1-1.

Fastball, away, fouled off, 1-2.

Cutter, in, gets too much plate, single past A Rod into left.

2008-07-25 19:05:48
478.   Alex Belth

C'mon DP.

2008-07-25 19:06:15
479.   51cq24
boy i love when the strike zone halves in the last inning
2008-07-25 19:06:16
480.   standuptriple
465 Shoulda buzzed 'em.

STFU Evil standuptriple!

2008-07-25 19:06:30
481.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
wasn't that the same pitch as the first one called a ball??
2008-07-25 19:06:32
482.   Raf
turn 2 here please
2008-07-25 19:07:21
483.   51cq24
481 yes
2008-07-25 19:07:48
484.   Raf
481 refer to 430
2008-07-25 19:07:53
485.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
put him away please, Mo! no Nancy with men on base..
2008-07-25 19:08:19
486.   RIYank
Oh, come on. I was sure he had Lowell with that pitch. Low.
2008-07-25 19:09:14
487.   RIYank

That's right, Mike. Sweet.

2008-07-25 19:09:15
488.   weeping for brunnhilde
2008-07-25 19:09:16
489.   Eirias
Sit down, Lowell!
2008-07-25 19:09:17
490.   ms october
he's fouling everything the same way and then the k!!!
2008-07-25 19:09:30
491.   rbj
Two down.
2008-07-25 19:09:32
492.   Alex Belth

Fastball, just away, 1-0.

Fastball, same place, this one better, strike, 1-1.

Fastball, away, fouled away, 1-2.

Fastball, away, but over the plate, foul. Decent swing by Lowell.

Fastball away, fouled off again.

Mo is just pounding that one spot.

Comes inside, at last, but it's low, 2-2.

Outside, late swing, but he gets a piece and spoils another one. Nice job by Lowell. Hanging tough.

Fastball, high and inside, Lowell goes nuts.

Wow, you rarely see that.

He got tossed.

Holy cow, you never see that.

He's trying to rattle Mo now.

2008-07-25 19:09:40
493.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
STFU Lowell, you're OUTTAHERE!
2008-07-25 19:09:51
494.   weeping for brunnhilde
Sit Down, Mike fucking Lowell!!!

Haa ha ahha a ahah!!!

2008-07-25 19:09:52
495.   Eirias
I always want to know what they say when they yell at the umps.
2008-07-25 19:09:54
496.   RIYank
Good lord. That wasn't close. Mo got a break on that one!
2008-07-25 19:10:45
497.   standuptriple
Boo hoo.

"Not even close" - Sox game callers

2008-07-25 19:11:02
498.   RIYank
This really is one of the worst-called games in a long while. And we've seen some bad ones.
2008-07-25 19:11:37
499.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
cmon Mo!! K this Bible Boy now!
2008-07-25 19:11:47
500.   standuptriple
You usually don't see 1-0 games called horrendously. Weird.
Show/Hide Comments 501-550
2008-07-25 19:11:57
501.   tommyl
2008-07-25 19:11:57
502.   rbj
Yes! Mo!
2008-07-25 19:11:59
503.   Raf
7 straight!
2008-07-25 19:12:03
504.   Chyll Will
2008-07-25 19:12:03
505.   Alex Belth
JD Drew.

Cutter inside, fouled off, 0-1.

Fastball, high and inside, 1-1.

Fastball, right over the outside corner. High and outside, 1-2.

Fastball, outside corner, called strike three!


2008-07-25 19:12:10
506.   weeping for brunnhilde
Hah qh ah ah aha a a ah ah !!!!!


Simply, the Greatest of them All.

Good Christ.

2008-07-25 19:12:10
507.   RIYank
God damn. God damn. Beautiful.
2008-07-25 19:12:13
508.   ms october
yes. big win!

that was mo riffic.

now let's get tomorrow's game too!!!!

2008-07-25 19:12:13
509.   standuptriple
I'm off to Napa now kids. Go Yanks!
2008-07-25 19:12:32
510.   OldYanksFan
Really. Way inside. What is the matter with these Umps. The damn call is right in front of them.
2008-07-25 19:12:45
511.   Shaun P
498 This is the worst strike zone I've seen all year. No consistency; its barely worth mentioning that its not even close to the rule book zone. Almost no ump calls it by the book. But this guy makes Joe West look good.
2008-07-25 19:12:57
512.   weeping for brunnhilde
I swear, I want to weep with awe.

Mariano Rivera, ladies and gentlemen.

2008-07-25 19:13:00
513.   rbj
And Joba gets his second win as the starter. I nominate him as player of the game, followed closely by Mo.
2008-07-25 19:13:23
514.   Emma Span
... whew!

I don't think I've breathed in two innings.

2008-07-25 19:13:27
515.   51cq24
hey i love mo as much as anyone, but let's give joba his due. he out-dueled beckett.
2008-07-25 19:13:37
516.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
506 indeed, Mo is simply the best!

time for a good saturday, some Sasebo Burgers and Hoegaarden beer!

2008-07-25 19:14:12
517.   RIYank
What a game. Very poorly called; Beckett gets away with too many hits, getting out of lots of jams; Giambi gets the game's only RBI with a shift-beating roller; Joba shows his stuff; Kyle flirts with disaster; Mo saves the day.


2008-07-25 19:14:43
518.   Alex Belth
That's a huge win.

Wonder if Joba, Youk III, Clubber Lang Edition will lead to more beef this weekend. Wouldn't be surprised.

Sox were doing a lot of moaning there at the end of the game.

2008-07-25 19:14:47
519.   OldYanksFan
Home plate umpo had a hot date. Didn't want any extra innings.
2008-07-25 19:14:56
520.   ms october
yes - joba really is the feature story of the night.
i am happy he finally got to pick up the win after all these great starts.
2008-07-25 19:15:05
521.   Chyll Will
509 Bring back some Moldavi if ya can? >;)
2008-07-25 19:15:23
522.   Alex Belth
How many of you yelled out loud when Mo got Drew there?
2008-07-25 19:15:32
523.   RIYank
"weeping for rivera", from now on.
2008-07-25 19:16:32
524.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
522 hah-hah, yep! the missus told me to pipe down and not wake the wee-one!
2008-07-25 19:16:54
525.   OldYanksFan
Great game, but honestly, I HATE it when an ump decies the outcome of the game. If that game was Ques-tek'd (sp), that ump is out of a job.
2008-07-25 19:16:56
526.   nemecizer
I think I am going to go to the doctor and get my blood pressure checked after that game. What a great game! But Lowell totally got robbed on that call.

7 in a row and 1 down from the Sox in the loss column. I like it!

2008-07-25 19:17:08
527.   monkeypants
513 Yeah, Joba got the win, but Farnsy almost threw it all away in the 8th inning. Makes you think about the whole Joba-starter-reliever debate, huh?
2008-07-25 19:17:19
528.   51cq24
522 i fist pumped joba style
2008-07-25 19:18:19
529.   51cq24
i'm not gonna cry for lowell when beckett got every pitch remotely close to the zone
2008-07-25 19:18:24
530.   Jeb
522 Me.
2008-07-25 19:18:56
531.   OldYanksFan
Let us not forget that soon Gardners .400 OPS gets replaced by Nady's .900 OPS.
2008-07-25 19:20:05
532.   Chyll Will
527 No, it only makes me think of the why-is-Farnsworth-still-here conundrum...
2008-07-25 19:21:12
533.   Jeb
527 no, not at all. Joba's 7 innings were great. It's not his fault we got 9 hits and couldn't plate more than 1 run.
2008-07-25 19:21:31
534.   nemecizer
522 The cat jumped when I yelled.
2008-07-25 19:21:46
535.   51cq24
i still think farnsworth made the right play by trying to get the quick tag. there was no other way to get him out because sexson had already given up on it, and it looked to me like there was a good chance it was staying fair.
2008-07-25 19:21:46
536.   OldYanksFan
Minn. and Detroit lose also. TB up 3-2 after 6.
2008-07-25 19:21:53
537.   Chyll Will
522 I started breathing again 504 >;)
2008-07-25 19:21:58
538.   RIYank
529 And a ball earlier in the count was actually strike three.
But it's still ugly to see that kind of thing. Kind of taints the at-bat, if not the game.
2008-07-25 19:22:37
539.   RIYank
I think I can speak for monkeypants when I say 527 jk! jk!
2008-07-25 19:24:20
540.   ms october
well kc scored a run in the bottom of the 6th so it is now 3-2 tampa in the top of the 7th. hopefully that is not too much to ask for them to get 2 more.

ah - back tomorrow for another one - we'll have two obnoxious guests joining us - buckeroo and timmy too

2008-07-25 19:25:13
541.   rbj
And hey, we're up to the mid 500s in comments for a July game. I think the Banter is in fine shape too.
2008-07-25 19:26:23
542.   OldYanksFan
We are currently on pace to win 90 games. ESPN odds of making the PS at 34.2%
2008-07-25 19:27:01
543.   horace-clarke-era
Well, a 1-0 win and a big trade will get me to pop into the game thread! I see Alex was around and about too...

Hugely entertaining, gorgeous Rivera (and Joba). Dreadful plate umping. He was wide for both pitchers and that's a big factor in a 1-0 score. The K of Lowell was (hate to say it) a disgraceful call, but Beckett had several including the K of A Rod that was absurdly inside too.

I want to add that I LIKE a Yankee team that flashes D (Melky and Robbie in same inning) and pitching.

The trade. I'm a big plus on it, and blinked a bit at all the naysaying ... are people going overboard on home talent evaluation here? Wasn't it only this week when the Banter was filled with laments that Cash never pulls the trigger, that talent needs to be USED ... Nady (It Ain't Over Till the Fat Nady Swings) is no supertalent but he answers an obvious need in this year's team, may be a legit part of the mix for 2-3 years, and Marte is a GOOD pitcher. Period. The arms we dealt are no better than maybe-mediocre and Tabata is a long, long way off, if he arrives with his head functioning (and his wrist).

Nady had a LOT of interest, and here's rotoworld on evaluating this:

Pittsburgh came down off its initial price tag an awful long way then. Tabata still has very exciting potential and is incredibly young, but his wrist problem are scary and he's looking like a headcase. Ohlendorf has never been a good bet to develop into anything more than a sixth- and seventh-inning guy. Pitcher Phil Coke is also believed to be in the deal, and he's a true long shot to help.

2008-07-25 19:27:12
544.   weeping for brunnhilde
522 Oh, I jumped up and down like a madman and screamed like we just won Game 7!

523 Indeed!

2008-07-25 19:27:46
545.   weeping for brunnhilde
524 Oh, I know, I get that a lot!
2008-07-25 19:28:56
546.   Travis08
Mariano is now 2/3 IP away from qualifying for the career ERA+ title.
2008-07-25 19:32:14
547.   RIYank
I had to pour (and slurp lustily) a celebratory drink. Gin and tonic for a warm summer evening.

That was my favorite game of the season.

2008-07-25 19:35:26
548.   RIYank
546 Cool, I knew that was coming.
If there is any justice, he'll get another save in this series and the moment when he takes the crown will be really memorable. Of course, since ERA+ is a geeky, ungritty statistic known only by mother-basement dwellers, no sports announcer on the planet will be aware of what's happening. But we'll know.
2008-07-25 19:40:20
549.   weeping for brunnhilde
Whoa, hey! A trade?

Fuck, I totally missed that...who'd we get?


2008-07-25 19:40:24
550.   OldYanksFan
Plus, Mo will replace Pedro in the #1 spot. I believe he is the only reliever on the list?
Show/Hide Comments 551-600
2008-07-25 19:40:31
551.   RIYank
Last guy at the party. Well, I'll just clean up... Man, you guys can really make a mess...
2008-07-25 19:41:30
552.   RIYank
Oh, hey! Good to see I'm not alone.

Yep, we get Xavier Nady and Damaso Marte. And we traded Tabata, Ohlendorf, Phil Coke, and somebody.

2008-07-25 19:41:49
553.   weeping for brunnhilde
Oh, Nady!

He's a decent bench guy, no?

He seemed to do well enough by the Mets, right?

2008-07-25 19:42:42
554.   weeping for brunnhilde
552 Did we need a Xavier Nady?

(Of course, if he's a high contact, low homerun guy, I'm all for him! :)

2008-07-25 19:44:57
555.   Travis08
550 Quisenberry and Wilhelm are tied at #4. Almost every modern reliever with over 1,000 innings is somewhere on the list.
2008-07-25 19:45:46
556.   monkeypants
554 553 Bench guy? I suspect that he will be the starting LF.
2008-07-25 19:48:18
557.   RIYank
554 Nady was decent, but this year he's very good. Yes, we did kind of need him, assuming Matsui will not return.
2008-07-25 19:51:12
558.   JL25and3
554 Sorry, weeping, he strikes out too much for you. But he's a pretty fair hitter having a tremendous year. (Btw, I'm still trying to figure out why HRs are bad. Even Don Mattingly hit HRs.)
2008-07-25 19:52:57
559.   JL25and3
556 If he's not the starting LF, something's seriously wrong.
2008-07-25 19:56:21
560.   williamnyy23
Wow...over 500 posts...too much to read through!

What was the general reaction to the deal. My take is Ohlendorf and Coke are unimportant, and in fact, can be replaced with better prospects if the Yankees let Marte walk and pocket the two draft picks (he will be a level A free agent).

That leaves Kontos and Tabata. Kontos definitely has upside, but he is already 23 and not exactly tearing up AA. He is a project, which makes him expendable. The real risk for the Yankees here is Tabata, who while still a good prospect has seen his star dim. Tabata could be anything from a bust to a star, so the jury will be out on this one for quite a while. What you can debate, however, is whether Tabata could have been a chip in the offseason.

As for what the Yankees received, I think both Nady and Marte will a need and will definitely improve the team this season. Marte should be solid this season and then he will likely leave, yielding two draft picks. Nady is the more interesting acquisition. He has always hit lefties very well and is very competent against righties. Even though he may not be more than a league average bat playing every day, it is also possible that he is in the midst of a prime that could see him hit in the 110-120 for a year two. He could not only help this year, but be a useful part for a year or two.

2008-07-25 20:00:36
561.   monkeypants
558 "Btw, I'm still trying to figure out why HRs are bad. Even Don Mattingly hit HRs."

Well, no one's perfect.

2008-07-25 20:01:04
562.   Bruce Markusen
Well, I've been bashing Cashman all season, then I come back to the house, catch the end of an exciting win, then turn to Banter and am delightfully shocked to hear about the trade for Nady and Marte.

Cashman has shut me up good with this one. I love this trade. Of the four guys the Yanks give up, only Tabata has a real high ceiling, and he's been derailing himself with a bad attitude. Nady is exactly what the offense needs, a right-handed hitting outfielder with power. He's also versatile, can play first base, and can even play third in an emergency. As for Marte, he makes a strong bullpen that much better. On paper, the best lefty reliever they've had since the prime years of Mike Stanton. Wow.

2008-07-25 20:15:41
563.   weeping for brunnhilde
Oh, I love you guys. You kill me.

Maybe I'm confusing Nady with someone else, but wasn't he merely a solid player with the Mets? Not a big guy or anything?

He's having a good year? Terrific.

So, is he a Justice/Abreu type pickup?

(Wow, now I'm excited!)

2008-07-25 20:17:31
564.   weeping for brunnhilde
Fuck, he's hitting .330????


Goddamn, now that's my kind of guy!

2008-07-25 20:19:06
565.   weeping for brunnhilde
Man, when does he suit up?


2008-07-25 20:23:44
566.   RIYank
Yes, exactly, he is a merely solid player who's having a terrific year.

Bruce, your saying that makes me feel more confident!

William, approximately your view was probably the majority, or at least plurality view. Some people hate the deal.

2008-07-25 20:27:35
567.   JL25and3
[560 You can always wonder if you could get more in a different deal. They may not have gotten any stars, but they got a starting outfielder and a good lefty reliever for this year and next. That actually strikes me as a damn good haul. It's possible Tabata could have brought back more - but, really, how much more?

Losing the three pitchers basically has no effect on their system. Tabata's 19, with a wrist injury and something of an attitude problem. He's probably at least three years away, and I assume they have doubts about that.

The Yankees also - surprisingly - have a chance to win the division this year. I think this trade materially increases their chances of that, and that's of some significant value.

2008-07-25 20:33:57
568.   RIYank
567 On winning the division:
Check out the Pythagorean records. If runs were distributed more evenly, the Sox would be in front of the division by about seven games. We'd be in second, and leading the WC race, with the Rays a game or two behind us.

That suggests that a 'correction' is coming. The Rays are playing over their heads. The Sox are apt to be even stronger in the coming weeks -- Pythagorean correction plus they get a whole lot of home games. But yeah, we have a surprisingly good shot I'd say.

2008-07-25 20:47:13
569.   williamnyy23
567 I agree...I was just factoring opportunity cost.

It hasn't gotten alot of play, but Marte being a type-A free agent is very significant. The deal is essential 3 pitchers and Tabata for Nady, Marte and possibly 2 draft picks, both of whom have a good chance to be more valuable than the pitchers (and which could come in handy if the Yankees forfeit picks for CC and/or Texeira).

2008-07-25 21:02:40
570.   OldYanksFan
559 He's a much poorer LFer then JD but I suspect he will play there some to rest JD. For some reason his ZR is about 50 pts better in RF. It seems he is an average fielder at best. Girardi will use him to rest Abreu also. Bobby has played 99 of 102 games, so I suspect he will be rested a fair amount to keep him rest for October.
2008-07-25 21:20:53
571.   cult of basebaal
as i said during the game (before i had to leave for a burgundy tasting, damn poor timing) i like this deal ... and i think i like it even more with reflection. it sacrifices almost nothing in the short term to make the team demonstrably better this year. trading tabata might end up being regretted, but it very well might not, with his lack of power, injuries and attitude issues this year. even if we do regret it ... it won't be for 3-4 years.

everything else is pretty much filler and a duplicate of someone we already have in the system.

good trade by cashman.

2008-07-25 21:21:37
572.   tommyl
522 I jumped up, screamed and did a Jeter fist pump. My friends over to watch with me were a bit shocked.
2008-07-25 21:25:02
573.   OldYanksFan
560 Good assessment which I believe is in sync with the majority opinion here. I believe any disappointment is because 1) we didn't get a more impact player (Bay, Dunn, Holliday, Bonds) and 2) I think out of excitement about our farm, many of us are guilty of overvaluing our prospects. We forget the very long odds any one player has of making the show.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the Yankees have a number of people evaluating talent on the farm. It's possible the powers that be have given the thumbs down on Tabata, and to trade him for value while his value is still pretty high. We can't and won't know, and will have to trust that the Yankees know what they're doing. I don't believe they would have let him go if they thought he still had star potential.

This was not a GREAT trade, but a fair move that strengthens our team and gives us some options next year, depending on how getting FAs works out. Both players are under contract for this year only, so we have taken on no commitment. However, it they work out well, the Yanks can resign them if they choose.

I don't think Nady was anyone's first choice (or 2nd or 3rd) but with Mats and Po out, our need for a RH OFer was pretty serious. There are certainly worse deals we could have made, and better prospects we could have lost.

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