Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
Let's Hope They Can Get This One In
2008-07-23 06:51
by Alex Belth

Thunderstorms are in the forecast...could be a long, damp one for the Yanks and Twins.

2008-07-23 06:55:45
1.   dianagramr
Hmmm .... that skyline looks suspiciously like "the city of Townsville"

(parents of young girls and fans of cartoons might get that reference)

2008-07-23 07:02:30
2.   Yankee Fan In Boston

watching this game was just about the only way i was going to survive the work day.

...i might have to go with plan b: liquor.

let's hope it doesn't come to that.

2008-07-23 07:15:42
3.   Sliced Bread
2 don't hit plan b just yet.
looks ok in NY right now. They'll dance between the rain drops. It'll probably be a busy day for team tarp. Here's hoping delays dont mess with the Moose.
2008-07-23 07:17:34
4.   monkeypants
Crap. Day games are about the only Yankees games televised here, unless the Yanks are playing the Jays. I'm home playing hooky and everything...
2008-07-23 07:17:42
5.   Knuckles
I'm in meetings from 4-7pm, so I was really hoping they get the game in and it goes quickly...but I'll take a win any way they happen.
2008-07-23 07:19:21
6.   monkeypants
3 Moose just seems cursed not to get 20 wins. Watch this game get washed out and he loses a start somehow, or he'll be leading after 2 or 3 innings and then they call the game.

OK, that's enough pessimism for today!

2008-07-23 07:25:55
7.   JL25and3
Oh, I can get a lot more pessimistic than that, because I'm going to the game today. Since I work down the street, I might be able to avoid sitting in the rain for an hour before the game starts. But I'm predicting two other in-game delays.
2008-07-23 07:36:33
8.   Sliced Bread
7 at least you can have the pleasure of swaggering past the Stadium security today, conspicuously flaunting yer sunblock.
2008-07-23 08:01:22
9.   joe in boston
A month ago, I was trying to figure out which game to take my kids to (first time for them) - either next wed or today. Glad we're going next week (I think). Couldn't take a rain delay/thunderstorms with a 3 year old and a 5 year old. BTW, what CAN bring into the Stadium ? Water, sandwhiches ? I also have to drive and park - any advice ?

My cousin:

Good stuff.

2008-07-23 08:15:32
10.   cult of basebaal
lineup's in, it's chock full o' ugly:

Damon DH
Jeter SS
Abreu RF
Rodriguez 3B
Sexson 1B
Cano 2B
Cabrera CF
Molina C
Christian LF
Mussina RHP

2008-07-23 08:19:28
11.   JL25and3
9 Yes, you can bring in sandwiches. Some people have reported problems with water and soda bottles, but I bring them in all the time. I haven't even been asked to take a swig to prove that they're not explosives.
2008-07-23 08:25:01
12.   RIYank
Hm, Richie Sexson batting fifth, Robbie Cano batting sixth. The mysteries of Joe Girardi's brain deepen.
2008-07-23 08:26:08
13.   Yankee Fan In Boston
9 i always love a "nice guy finishes first" story. that's great.
2008-07-23 08:30:18
14.   monkeypants
10 It's not that much more full of ugly than the normal lineup. Right now Christian = Gardner, Molina is the starting C, and Damon can't play in the field. The only significant difference between this and the regular lineup is Sexson instead of Giambi.

Now, you and I both know that Giambi is the better option even against LHP, but this is more or less what they got Sexson for.

It's going to help when Damon can move back to the OF.

2008-07-23 08:36:40
15.   ChrisS

Sexson was a bad pick-up and this was why. There's absolutely no reason he should be taking ABs from Giambi - regardless of whether Damon is DHing or not. Sexson should be on the bench until Damon takes the field.

And this was where a lot of the criticism of the Sexson acquisition was rooted, whether he takes ABs from Giambi.

2008-07-23 08:39:28
16.   Jehosephat
Can we call the bottom of the line-up the Killer C's. We'll use Molina's "C" for Catcher to make it work. C'mon, whaddya say?

Take it straight up if you are an optimus prime
...or dripping with sarcasm if you are megatron

2008-07-23 08:40:22
17.   tommyl
15 Guys, its one game. Maybe Giambi needs a day off (he did one hell of a split yesterday). If this keeps him healthy I'm fine with it.
2008-07-23 08:42:17
18.   Shaun P
9 Good for your cousin!

And hope you have a good time at the game. I drove when I went, but I think I got lucky in finding a spot in a garage down River Ave from the Stadium. I'm guessing its an afternoon game you're going to, in which case, be prepared to hit horrid traffic leaving (as I did).

2008-07-23 08:44:14
19.   tommyl
Via Pete Abe:


Jorge Posada stepped up with the information. The MRI showed that his labrum is worse and that he has capsule damage. He will need surgery and a six-month rehab. However … he will try rehabbing for the next two weeks and consider trying to return as a DH and first baseman.

Posada said the Yankees are willing to have him play again this season even if it means missing part of next season. But if he comes back this season, he won't catch.

"Catching is out of the question," he said.

It seems curious to me that they would not want Posada ready to start next season, especially given how ineffective he was as a hitter. Obviously the injury has hampered his ability at the plate. But we'll see what happens in a few weeks.


So what the hell is he doing trying to rehab? So we can have another so so hitting DH? Get the surgery Jorgie, get it right freakin' now.

2008-07-23 08:54:52
20.   joe in boston
11 13 18 Thanks guys.
2008-07-23 08:55:36
21.   weeping for brunnhilde
12 Maybe he doesn't want to turn up the pressure on Robby by moving him up in the order.

Anyway, is this man hitting, or is this man hitting!

2008-07-23 08:55:51
22.   Schteeve
I frankly think it's irresponsible of the Yankees to not insist that Po get the surgery now. This season is shot (where he is concerned) why on earth compromise part of next season? It's really dumb. It's not as if his bat was all that frisky when he was playing this season.
2008-07-23 08:56:40
23.   Sliced Bread
hey, the Posada Plan is exactly what the Sliced Bread ordered yesterday!

and hot dog, it's sunny in NY right now!

2008-07-23 08:57:19
24.   JL25and3
19 Yeah, that sounds like a really bad idea. I'm not sure what two weeks of rehab is supposed to accomplish.
2008-07-23 08:59:42
25.   tommyl
22 Yes it is, especially when Posada has said the shoulder has hampered his hitting. He's shown no power since coming off the DL. What is the point? I don't think he can help much now anyways. Jorge's season is over, the sooner they admit that, the sooner he can start getting ready for next.
2008-07-23 09:01:43
26.   cult of basebaal
19 seriously, WTF???

go get surgery, cletus!


2008-07-23 09:01:45
27.   Shaun P
19 Bad news all around. Sigh.

In the above Cano vs Cuba thread, Rob points out this might just be disinformation, to drive down the price of a bat. That makes sense, and I hope he's right.

2008-07-23 09:03:20
28.   Sliced Bread
dudes, what if... yeah.. big WHAT IF... Po can swing in a few weeks?
Worth the wait. Two weeks is nothing in the big picture.
2008-07-23 09:04:18
29.   dianagramr

way to protect your $40 million investment Hal!

2008-07-23 09:07:08
30.   tommyl
28 If taking off a month or so earlier in the season didn't help it, I don't see how two weeks now will. If anything its more damaged than it was before and it hurts when he swings. I understand he's proud and all, but this is bordering on stupidity. Order him to get the surgery.
2008-07-23 09:09:45
31.   Shaun P
28 "Big" is an understatement, Sliced.

Posada already took SIX weeks off to rest his shoulder. The result?

.248/.380/.371, 2 HR in 105 AB

and most of that came the first two weeks back, against awful competition (KC, SD, HOU). He's hit .205/.314/.288, 0 HR since 6/20/08.

I just fail to see how two more weeks of rest is going to do anything.

2008-07-23 09:12:00
32.   Sliced Bread
look, Posada's most likely postponing the inevitable, but it's worth waiting a few weeks to see if he heals enough to swing.
I don't like the 1b idea, but if can come off the bench and pinch it for someone at the bottom of the order I say that's worth the wait.
2008-07-23 09:15:06
33.   tommyl
The way the Yankees handle injuries is starting to become maddening. For a team with a $200 million payroll its just laughable. Why is this even Posada's call? Its clear at this point he can't catch (where his bat is more valuable). As a DH he's much, much closer to league average even when he's hitting well. He's stated that the shoulder affects his swing and since coming back from six weeks off he's had no power at all. None. Of course Posada wants to play, any player (aside from Meat) would. Still, its the FO and manager's jobs to make that decision for him and tell him what to do.
2008-07-23 09:15:11
34.   Sliced Bread
31 but throwing is what exacerbated the injury, right?
Clearly, Po shouldn't throw...which is why I think 1b is a bad idea... but again..let's see if he can hit off the bench. That's the best case scenario. The worst case, we're already dealing with.
2008-07-23 09:16:33
35.   horace-clarke-era
14 Agreed. Felt same way with the 'ugly' comment for last night. I think people are spoiled, the idea that right through a lineup you have threats feels odd to me. Maybe, maybe, the Tigers healthy and at their best have that, but look where they are. I have no essential problem with a defensive CF and our defensive catcher is a no-choice right now, anyhow. Not happy with Christian-Gardner but that's injury-related and part of the season. (I'm not a Gardner fan, myself, a good eye needs to be married to the ability to hit when you DO get the pitch and haven't seen it ... it is also comical how shallow the OF plays him. Reminds me of little league when the smallest hitter comes up.)

I have NO idea why we'd want Jorge to risk catching next season to be an extra DH this season. None. The best I can do is count months and note that a couple of week's testing before surgery still has him healed by late February but if he DOES DH the year, has surgery in fall, he's gone until May-June next year. Doesn't feel like a smart trade-off to me. So I disagree with my good man Sliced Bread on this. Two weeks is nothing, the season is a lot. And he WILL need the surgery.

Final comment after watching last night ... at risk of jinxing them, have to say the bullpen since Joba's a starter (but we MISS him in the 8th!) has been a pleasure to watch, and Bruney may be back soon. They have been a key to our having - check it out - the best record in the league with Angels since June 7, that famous arbitrary date. Minny was there, till we beat 'em twice.

2008-07-23 09:17:18
36.   weeping for brunnhilde
22 et. al.


Hard to fathom why they'd fuck around like that.

2008-07-23 09:20:09
37.   Shaun P
32 Posada as pinch hitter, career:

.223/.339/.330, 124 PA

I have no idea when those appearances have come.

Posada as a DH, career:

.205/.320/.337, 197 PA

I am not as hopeful as you, o' Sunny Sliced.

2008-07-23 09:21:11
38.   tommyl
32 So we're hoping he can PH and occasionally DH? How many ABs is that for the rest of the season? You wouldn't play him over Giambi or Damon in that spot the way he's hitting. So we're talking a few platoon DH starts and some PH. Without running the numbers I'm willing to bet that adds up to less than a single win over the rest of the season. Now factor in that any delay adds on to any time he might miss next season. It just doesn't add up to me. If they can't find a guy who can PH at that level I'd be shocked.
2008-07-23 09:21:53
39.   JL25and3
34 Except that it hurts to hit, also. And if it hurts, it's aggravating the injury.

The best case scenario, I think, is that he continues to produce the way he has this year. We've already seen that that's the most rehab will accomplish. The tradeoff for that will be carrying Molina's bat again, full-time, for a month or more of next season. Bad deal.

2008-07-23 09:24:23
40.   Schteeve
34 Here's why I don't think it's worth it:

1) As others have pointed out, to date the "rest it and see what happens" approach has paid zero dividends.

2) They have 4 years and $40 million tied up in this guy. One and $10 million are pretty much wasted. Why jepoardize 2 and $20 million?

3) The 6 month rehab time assumes everything goes smoothly. What if he has setbacks? He's 37 and shoulders are a lot harder to rehab than say...elbows.

4) If he gets the surgery now, he can start working out full bore in January. If he waits 2 weeks which will realistically be a month, that puts him in Feb assuming everything goes smoothly. That gives him one month prior to ST to get in shape. That's cutting things really really close.

Shut it down now, be prudent. He's too valuable to risk the next 3 years by worsening the injury even more.

2008-07-23 09:24:50
41.   JL25and3
35 If you have to carry a defense-only catcher, or a defense-only CF, or a AAA player in the OF, you can live with that. Carrying all three is downright ugly.
2008-07-23 09:41:58
42.   cult of basebaal
41 no, it's STARTING all 3 that's ugly.

the gardner issue will be resolved when damon can throw again, probably next week ... but molina and hacky are back to back black holes of suck.

and this lineup is worse than last night. there are 4 legitimately mediocre hitters hacking tonite, which just isn't a long term winning situation.

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