Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
2008-07-21 13:25
by Alex Belth



According to Tyler Kepner in the New York Times, Jorge Posada could be out for the year.

2008-07-21 13:28:52
1.   ny2ca2dc
2008-07-21 13:29:45
2.   Alex Belth
Very not good.
2008-07-21 13:32:30
3.   domvjr
This could be the straw that kills there chances for the playoffs this year!
2008-07-21 13:32:42
4.   Rob Middletown CT
Doubleplusungood. It's hard to see them makin the playoffs without Posada and Matsui. Yikes.
2008-07-21 13:35:56
5.   Shaun P
Dear Mr. Cashmoney,

If Jorge is out for the year, and Matsui too, there is only one way to carry Molina's "bat" in the lineup and think about the playoffs.

Please sign Barry Bonds, haste post haste.

Shaun P

2008-07-21 13:36:27
6.   Bob Timmermann
Moli-i-i-i-na, where you goin to ?
Moli-i-i-i-na, where you goin to ?

Shes daughter to the mayor,
Messin with the sheriff,
Drivin in a blue car,
She dont see no red light.


Shes comin in the mornin
Lookin a disaster,
Drivin in the prowl car,
Spent the night in jail.


Sheriff gonna go far
Drivin to the state house,
If she makes a million,
Papa can retire.

2008-07-21 13:36:31
7.   Rob Middletown CT
"I can't catch right now. I'm hurting and every throw hurts. It's been like that the whole year. We're looking at every scenario."
Posada said this surgery would be more intensive that his last surgery, which occurred after the 2001 season. He was ready for spring training the next February, but he said the surgery this time could carry a six-month recovery period. Having surgery now could be Posada's only option to start 2009 healthy."

Sky. Falling. Aaaaaaaaaaaah! Run for the hills!

2008-07-21 13:37:22
8.   Rob Middletown CT
5 I'm Rob and I approve of this comment.
2008-07-21 13:42:00
9.   Yankee Fan In Boston
part of me just died a little.

(the part that was holding out any hope for the slim chance of a playoff run.)

2008-07-21 13:44:34
10.   dianagramr
Can we start rooting for the Rays now?
2008-07-21 13:44:57
11.   Rob Middletown CT
If they go out and trade for Nady now I'll... I'll... rant about it on the Banter. Hear that Cashman?! ;)
2008-07-21 13:45:35
12.   Yankee Fan In Boston
10 i have been already.
2008-07-21 13:45:57
13.   seattleyank
I hope he's able to have the surgery and get his mojo back. At his age, his position, who knows? That 4-year contract could end up being a disaster.
2008-07-21 13:46:22
14.   pistolpete
Then why, pray tell, was he bitching so much about not catching...?
2008-07-21 13:48:06
15.   ny2ca2dc
14 Because he's a tough bastard, and that's why I love him.

Can someone start a frigin online petition or something to sign Bonds. Mats had me past the point of indifference (in favor), now I'm rabidly in favor.

2008-07-21 13:48:23
16.   Yankee Fan In Boston
14 ouch. true.
2008-07-21 13:49:39
17.   Shaun P
14 Well, as Alex likes to say, Jorge does have a bit of the red-ass in him.
2008-07-21 13:50:48
18.   Yankee Fan In Boston
15 unless bonds can pitch, he won't be enough to get the team to the playoffs. i don't trust the moose/ponson/rasner portion of the rotation as far as i can throw sidney.

i feel as though they'd been walking the tightrope for a while. IF this is what is happening, this might have been the deathblow.

...but what the heck do i know?

2008-07-21 13:51:42
19.   pistolpete
17 Hard to argue against what Molina's done, though. If it was me who was hurting and my replacement was lights out behind the plate, I might be inclined to pipe down a bit.

But don't get me wrong, I normally love the red-assedness of our second-in-command.

2008-07-21 13:52:20
20.   thelarmis
today has already been incredibly stressful. now this. damn, shit can always get worse, huh.

might not be our year...

still, we can make up an awful lot of ground this week vs. the twinkies and shit sox, if we can somehow pull out some victories. not looking great w/ gardner & leche in the OF and ponsoon & razzle fizzle on the bump... : /

2008-07-21 13:53:50
21.   Rob Middletown CT
18 You win by scoring more than you allow. Bonds helps with scoring. He doesn't help with run prevention. They still will need help at the back end of the rotation, no doubt. But signing Bonds has ZERO IMPACT on being able to upgrade their pitching. It's not like this is an either/or proposition. They could sign Bonds and trade for (or call up) a pitcher.
2008-07-21 13:54:09
22.   Raf
14 Ah, you know, it's the 5 stages thing; denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance...
2008-07-21 13:56:12
23.   Raf
18 The pitching is doing better than expected. It's the offense that needs to get going, and quick.
2008-07-21 13:56:16
24.   Rob Middletown CT
22 I'm presently in the anger stage.
2008-07-21 13:58:58
25.   kylepetterson
5 Does anyone really believe that a 44 year old player with bad knees who hasn't seen live pitching in almost a year is going to come in here and carry this team to the playoffs?
2008-07-21 13:59:13
26.   Shaun P
15 Done and done!

2008-07-21 13:59:34
27.   pistolpete
Man, I really hope Damon comes back with a vengeance now...
2008-07-21 14:02:56
28.   Shaun P
25 I don't know if he can, but why not try?

What is the worst that can happen? He sucks?

2008-07-21 14:03:15
29.   a O
Just for the record, I'd rather lose every game for the remainder of the season than sign that cheating nutjob and soon-to-be felon Bonds. Every effin game!!

And look, Jorge wasn't hitting that well and he obviously can't catch until he gets this thing fixed, so everyone's better off if he gets ready for the start of 09.

2008-07-21 14:03:42
30.   Just fair
Bad news for the Toros. Take care of yourself, Jorge, so you're raring to go in 09. I am still amazed how some of the BB's look at Bonds as a solution for team that has had one too many old guys who have broken down of late. Damon, Matsui, A-Rod briefly, and now Posada. I didn't realize Bonds had discovered the fountain of youth.
Mr. Bonds remains a sore subect for me. You all can beat repeatedly in the face with his numbers over the years, but none are available from the last 10 months. end rant.
2008-07-21 14:09:07
31.   monkeypants
Well, this is not good. But let's step back for a moment. Can he still hit? If so, make Posada the full-time DH and suffer with Molina at C with Moeller at BUC.

If Po can't hit, then shut him down for the year. That still leaves Molina as C with Moeller as BUC. That leaves a hole at DH, to be filled in the short run by the Betemit-Sexson wonder-duo.

Damon will be back soon, which will either displace Betemit-Sexson from DH (if Johnny can't play the field), or displace Gardner from LF.

In either case, Moeller is going to be absorbing ABs for the rest of the season, unless Cashman can swing a trade for Greg Zaun or whatever. Also, in any case there is going to be room for one more bat, either a legit DH or a legit corner OF.

Many will cry for Bonds, and from a baseball perspective he makes sense for this year--though I am still skeptical that he will be ready to play all that soon. But anyway, let's get more creative. I would be in favor of trading some MiL pitching for a younger OF who will stay for a few years, and replace Abreu when he gets dumped after the season.

2008-07-21 14:12:09
32.   Shaun P
31 Hey, so far "many" is me and Marion Jones (whoever that is):

Let me bridge the last thread and this one.

Rob Neyer points out that:

"Well, the Rangers, right now, have four MLB-ready catchers. They have 24-year-old Teagarden, who didn't hit in the minors this season, but is regarded as a fine defender and entered the season as the Rangers' No. 4 prospect. They have 23-year-old Max Ramirez, who's sort of Teagarden's mirror: there are real questions about his glove, but almost none about his bat. And of course they've still got Gerald Laird, an established major leaguer, and Jarrod Saltalamacchia, who's struggled in the majors but is seven months younger than Ramirez."

What do the Rangers always need? Pitching!

2008-07-21 14:13:13
33.   cult of basebaal
21 pitching is not going to keep this team from the playoffs.

i'll bet money right now that the 4th & 5th starters (combined) will be league average (for their slots).

it's the bats.

we won't win averaging 2.5 runs a game unless koufax and gibson come walking through that door

2008-07-21 14:16:01
34.   RIYank
I hate to say it, but it's not clear to me that a non-throwing Posada (by which I mean the model we've been seeing) is better than Jose Molina.
If Jorge gets the surgery, yeah, we'll lose a lot of runs, but we might prevent almost as many (compared to this recent version, not compared to a healthy Posada).

I'm still rooting against the Rays.

2008-07-21 14:16:27
35.   cult of basebaal
31 there's one problem with that approach. if the damage is as bad as they think, immediate surgery is the only way posada is likely to be ready for the start of the next season.
2008-07-21 14:18:34
36.   cult of basebaal
34 see 35 likely any time posada doesn't miss for the rest of this season, he would have to miss next season.
2008-07-21 14:21:57
37.   cult of basebaal
also, don't overlook the fact that the shoulder issue appears to be bothering posada at the plate ... here are his splits for July:


that say to me it's directly affecting his ability to drive the ball. if so, there's no reason for pitchers to not attack him, which means that pretty obp isn't going to last long ...

2008-07-21 14:28:01
38.   RIYank
35 36 Maybe. I don't know much about this kind of surgery. You're saying the recovery time is more than 5 months? More than 6 months? Or you really mean it's so long that he'll miss three whole months next year if he doesn't get the thing done now?
2008-07-21 14:28:44
39.   ms october
well when i said the catcher situation could get murkier the other day - i guess what i really meant was really f'd up.

somebody on the yankees' payroll must have been realistic about this situation to keep moeller around so long.

damon has to get in the field asap to get gardner (or nod to the melk detratctors, melky) out of the lineup.
then another bat has to emerge from somwehere - or this playoff thing ain't going to happen this year.

2008-07-21 14:33:04
40.   rbj
32 I'd trade IPK, plus 2 bullpen arms (excepting the obvious) for a catcher. Jorge's going to need a replacement anyhow, so get a young guy who can be groomed.

Everyone else needs to step up their offense.

2008-07-21 14:33:27
41.   Knuckles
This is a backwards argument. The only reason he's available is because he doesn't have any numbers available for the past 10 months. And why not? Because there's been some likely unspoken collusion throughout MLB. The numbers prior to 10 months ago indicate a guy with a command of the strike zone, and the ability to hit the damn ball. And at some point, a playoff contender is going to decide that outweighs the drawbacks of Barry's recliner taking up 20% of the clubhouse, and find themselves with a bigtime mid-season upgrade at almost no cost. Why the hell shouldn't it be the Yankees? Everyone already hates them anyway- might as well give them a real reason to do so...
2008-07-21 14:45:55
42.   Just fair
41 "likely unspoken collusion" I just don't believe this to be the case. It is a matter of opinion, or course. But I just don't see anyone signing him this year, or ever again due to his excessive baggage. Which is simply my oversimplified explanation. All I can say is good riddance. That's just me.
Could there have been a double secret probation meeting to screw Bonds over? Maybe. Will we ever know for sure? Probably not.
2008-07-21 14:47:47
43.   cult of basebaal
40 IPK = pocket lint.

until he proves this disastrous season wrong and that he CAN pitch successfully in the bigs (hell, successfully in AAA would be a start), he's just not a very valuable chit.

2008-07-21 14:53:33
44.   rbj
Wow, the Giants have just traded Shockey to the Saints. Happy trails, Jeremy.
2008-07-21 14:54:13
45.   cult of basebaal
38 i'm going with 6 months minimum, based on what the articles have said. it'll be curious to see what details wil carroll can provide.
2008-07-21 15:16:13
46.   monkeypants
35 37 No problem with my approach at all. I was merely pointing out that Molina is going to start at C the rest of the season regardless. So, the team (and we, in our banter) need to proceed from that starting point.

As you point out, Posada is probably toast, so then shut him down for the year. This also improves the chances that he is healthy for the start of 2009.

Even so, Molina will C, and Damon will DH for now, leaving the same hole in the lineup at corner OF. When Damon goes back in the field, then Sexson-Betemit will DH.

This leave the team few options to improve: 1. get a catcher who can hit some, whose bat outweighs Molina's glove. 2. get a legit corner OF/DH.

1. Will be difficult and costly.

2. Cries out for Bonds, even though I hope against that for personal, irrational reasons. A solution could also be found by trading pitching talent to the Pirates, for one of their corner OFs, as OYF brought up the other day.

2008-07-21 20:10:04
47.   Sonya Hennys Tutu
39 Indeed I had the exact same thought about Moeller when I heard this news. They knew all along that Po was a huge beta - he'd either recover just fine or go under the knife. Alas.

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