Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
Tampa Bay Rays IV
2008-07-08 12:01
by Cliff Corcoran

Most likely this is simply another period of transition as the 24-year-old Garza works to establish himself alongside lefty Scott Kazmir (also 24) and righty James Shields (26) to give the Rays the best trio of starters their brief existence, prospects from Longoria and Brignac to 2007 top pick and potential ace David Price continue to fight their way toward the majors, and established starters such as Upton and catcher Dioner Navarro attempt to mature on the job. The rate at which each of those things happen will determine the rate of the Rays' improvement. Heck, by the All-Star break, this team could have Longoria and any of a handful of pitching prospects in place, Garza, Upton and company could be thriving, and the Rays could be well on their way to that 88-win projection, but given their bad luck and self-defeating maneuvers such as the demotion of Longoria, I just don't see it happening.

While the Rays' have made incremental improvements in their pitching and defense, their offense should break even as Carlos Peña regresses from his monster breakout season of a year ago. The result is likely something resembling a well-balanced 75-win team, which is a nice step up from a duck-and-cover 67-win team, but it's not about to change the complexion of the division. At least not this season. -Cliff Corcoran, April 4, 2008

Uhm . . . oops.

To be fair a lot of those "things" that I said needed to happen for the Rays to become a winning team have happened. Longoria was called up and installed at third base just a week after I wrote the above and has since emerged as the second-best third baseman in the American League behind Alex Rodriguez by hitting .283/.354/.535 while playing fantastic defense. Longoria, who has hit .331/.397/.653 since June 1, is probably the most deserving of the Final Vote candidates for the final spot on the AL All-Star roster. Dioner Navarro, who is hitting .317/.371/.436, is already on the All-Star roster and has been the second best catcher in the league in the first half. B.J. Upton has lost a lot of the power he showed last year, but has made up for it with an tremendous improvement in his approach at the plate as evidenced by the drop in his K/BB ratio from 2.37 in 2007 to 1.21 and his .391 on-base percentage against a .277 average. Garza overcame some early-season elbow trouble and has posted a 3.02 ERA in his last 14 starts. Reid Brignac and pitching prospect Mitch Talbot have had tastes of the major leagues already this year.

Everything has gone according to the Rays' plan in the first half. They have the best defensive efficiency in baseball. That has lifted their pitching from last in the league to third, with both Garza and lefty ace Scott Kazmir, who starts against Andy Pettitte tonight, benefiting greatly on balls in play with BABIPs in the low .260s. Former Dodgers prospect Edwin Jackson, still just 24 year old, has gotten a lift as well with a .281 BABIP and a league-average major league ERA which is more than a run better than his career mark. Rounded out by Andy Sonnanstine, who has a 3.15 ERA in his last seven starts, the Rays have a solid five-man rotation of which the 26-year-old James Shields is the oldest member. More good pitching out of the bullpen and a surprisingly strong offense led by the rookie Longoria, a career year from four-corner utility man Eric Hinske (.264/.349/.524), and the robust on-base percentages of Upton and Navarro, have put the Rays in a position from which they could post a .446 winning percentage the rest of the way and still fulfill PECOTA's bold 88-win projection.

Odds are they'll do better than that. Despite all of the above going their way, the Rays have still suffered from repeated injuries to closer Troy Percival and DH Cliff Floyd. Garza and Kazmir have both lost time to injury as well, and Rocco Baldelli hasn't played above A-ball all year. What's more, shortstop Jason Bartlett, who came over in the deal for Garza, was supposed to be the anchor of their improved defense, but has been a disappointment in the field and an embarrassment at the plate (.204/.268/.358, only slightly better than Jose Molina). Bartlett is on the DL with a knee sprain right now, opening the door to an improvement at his position as prospect Reid Brignac battles Ben Zobrist for playing time at shortstop. In addition to the upgrade at Bartlett's spot, the Rays should be able to expect more pop from Upton and more than the league-average production they've received from Carl Crawford in the first half.

Good health and those slight improvements on offense could offset some of the expected regressions elsewhere. With 74 games left to play, if the Rays merely played that the level the Yankees have in the first half (.528 winning percentage entering tonight's game) they would win 94 games, a total that could put them in the postseason, as it did for the Yankees a year ago.

Given all of that, the Yankees have done well to split their first ten games against the Rays this season. However, four of those five wins came in April. In their last meeting in mid-May, the Rays took three of four from the Bombers at the Trop. Coming into this week's brief two-game set in the Bronx, the Rays are red-hot having won 11 of their last 13 including a three-game sweep of the Red Sox.

The good news is that Kazmir has cooled off after a stretch of six starts in May, including one against the Yankees, in which he allowed four runs in 41 innings. Since then, Kazmir has posted a 4.67 ERA and turned in just one quality start in five tries, that coming back on June 11. Kazmir still isn't giving up very many hits, but the ones he is giving up are traveling, as he's allowed a .471 slugging percentage over those five starts with nearly half of his hits allowed going for extra bases. He's also getting wild again, walking 5 men per nine innings over those last five starts. Over the same stretch, Andy Pettitte was dominant for four starts (4-0, 1.00 ERA) before his ugly outing against the Red Sox on Thursday.

Despite yesterday's off-day, Jose Molina will make his third-straight start behind the plate tonight with Jason Giambi getting a day off against the lefty Kazmir. Jorge Posada will DH with Wilson Betemit at first base. Those two are hitting fifth and sixth in the order ahead of Robinson Cano despite the fact that Cano is hitting .396/.400/.625 over his last dozen games (note the complete lack of walks, those extra OBP points are from a HBP).

Tampa Bay Rays

2008 Record: 55-33 (.625)
2008 Pythagorean Record: 52-36 (.596)

Manager: Joe Maddon
General Manager: Andrew Friedman

Home Ballpark (multi-year Park Factors): Tropicana Field (98/100)

Who's Replaced Whom:

Ben Zobrist (DL) has replaced Jason Bartlett (DL)
Willy Aybar (DL) has replaced Andy Cannizaro (minors)
Reid Brignac (minors) has replaced Scott Dohmann
Grant Balfour (minors) has replaced Troy Percival (DL)

25-man Roster:

1B - Carlos Peña (L)
2B - Akinori Iwamura (L)
SS - Ben Zobrist (S)
3B - Evan Longoria (R)
C - Dioner Navarro (S)
RF - Eric Hinske (L)
CF - B.J. Upton (R)
LF - Carl Crawford (L)
DH - Cliff Floyd (L)


R - Jonny Gomes (OF)
L - Gabe Gross (OF)
L - Reid Brignac (IF)
S - Willy Aybar (IF)
R - Shawn Riggans (C)


L - Scott Kazmir
R - Edwin Jackson
R - Andy Sonnanstine
R - James Shields
R - Matt Garza


R - Grant Balfour
R - Dan Wheeler
R - Gary Glover
L - Trever Miller
L - J. P. Howell
R - Jason Hammel

15-day DL: R - Jason Bartlett (SS), R - Troy Percival, R - Al Reyes, R - Chad Orvella
60-day DL: R - Rocco Baldelli (OF)

Typical Lineup:

L - Akinori Iwamura (2B)
L - Carl Crawford (LF)
R - B.J. Upton (CF)
L - Carlos Peña (1B)
R - Evan Longoria (3B)
L - Cliff Floyd (DH)
S - Dioner Navarro (C)
L - Erik Hinske (RF)
S - Ben Zobrist (IF)

Comments (274)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-07-08 15:28:41
1.   Xeifrank
150:1 Baby!
vr, Xei
2008-07-08 15:29:35
2.   Alex Belth
I say the Yanks sweep the upstarts.
2008-07-08 15:36:55
3.   kylepetterson
Upon gazing upon the manliness that is Mr. Giambi and his mustache, the Rays of Sunshine will simply give up. 2 game sweep, my friends. 2. Game. Sweep.
2008-07-08 15:45:23
4.   Sliced Bread
dag, ESPN says Cubs get Harden.
break up da Cubs!

Now, let's stomp these Rays Of Light.

2008-07-08 15:48:46
5.   ms october
nice pre-series write-up as always cliff.

well the only two of my pre-season thoughts that have panned out by the asb is the rays being for real and moose having a nice season - both have been interesting, with only the latter being good for the yanks.

i know the spot one hits in the order is overblown, but if there is the slighest chance robi is more comfortable in the 7th spot, i am okay with leaving him there.
though i am not looking forward to betemit flailing at pitches from the right side, so let's hope to avoid that one.
but i do hope to see the yanks few speedy guys, obviously particularly gardner, try to get on base against kazmir and put some pressure on him - as well as that 471 slg% version showing up tonight.

2008-07-08 15:48:54
6.   Sliced Bread
CHICAGO -- The Chicago Cubs have acquired pitcher Rich Harden from the Oakland Athletics in a six-player trade, a day after the rival Milwaukee Brewers landed CC Sabathia.

The Cubs will receive the right-handed Harden and righty Chad Gaudin for pitcher Sean Gallagher, outfielders Matt Murton and Eric Patterson, and minor leaguer John Donaldson.

Harden, scheduled to be a free agent after the 2009 season, is 5-1 with a 2.34 ERA in 13 starts this season.

The oft-injured righty missed a month earlier this season because of a right shoulder strain. It was his sixth trip to the disabled list in his six-year career.

Copyright 2008 by The Associated Press

2008-07-08 15:49:49
7.   williamnyy23
Does Girardi have access to splits? Melky is batting .216 as a righty, so naturally he is in line to get the most ABs.

4 That's a big move. Talk about seeing your Sabathia. Isn't this the game the Yankees and Red Sox are supposed to be playing?

2008-07-08 15:51:33
8.   nick
hey, Cliff, fwiw, if you check out RLYW, they have #s that the Rays are 22 (twenty-two!) runs better defensively already at SS (Bartlett being around average, the guys he replaced being terrible....)

Betemit is just utterly terrible against lefties--we need a RH bench bat, but instead, we carry Moeller--hard to figure....Think the Mariners would basically give us Sexton if we ate some $? He still hits lefties...

2008-07-08 15:52:20
9.   cult of basebaal
6 wow, that's big. and yet, not big enough, imho, for harden AND gaudin.
2008-07-08 15:54:28
10.   nick
Wow--does anybody the As get in that trade have a 50% chance to be an above-average MLB player?

If they get even 10 more starts out of Harden this season, that's a hell of a deal

2008-07-08 15:57:42
11.   nick
....AND Gaudin? Frankly, it's not enough for Harden alone.

I mean, I would've offered IPK, Melky and any one minor-leaguer for Hardin alone....

2008-07-08 15:57:44
12.   cult of basebaal
10 and they threw gaudin in on top and he's been as good as gallagher this year ... a real head-scratcher from beane ... just weird to think that this was the best deal he could get, especially this far before the deadline.
2008-07-08 15:58:35
13.   williamnyy23
10 Gallagher is a well thought of arm and Murton moonlighted as a top prospect. He is an Aa's kind of player, so I am sure they they think he'll blossom with playing time.

As good as Harden is when healthy, he has been on the DL six times. That fact surely lowered his trade value. I was kind of hoping the Yankees could steal him in a similar deal. He isn't a great bet to stay healthy, but he represents that kind of crap shoot that I think the Yankees need to turn it around.

2008-07-08 16:00:10
14.   cult of basebaal
frankly, i owe everyone whose trade deals i've insulted over the past couple of weeks a coke, i wouldn't have believed that brian sabean would make a deal that looked this bad, let alone beane ... especially not after the deals he made this spring.

of course, there was the tim hudson deal, that one looked pretty stinky at the time and even stinkier with hindsight (seriously, charles freakin' thomas???)

2008-07-08 16:03:11
15.   williamnyy23
Speaking of big news, it was reported that Phil Hughes might not pitch until September. Not only does that not bode well for this year, it also means 2009 will be another work in progress year with an innings limit. Every time I read an injury update on Hughes, it feels like a Pavano flash back.
2008-07-08 16:05:17
16.   cult of basebaal
13 right, but the cubs were doing nothing with murton and the pressure's on hendry to do something to answer the brewers. the only way that this makes sense for beane is if he really has a gut feeling that harden's not going to stay healthy until the trade deadline ... otherwise you wait and let the pressure build on everybody else.

in any case, the nl central race just got a whole lot more interesting this week ...

2008-07-08 16:05:49
17.   cult of basebaal
15 well, at least it sounds like phil wants to be healthy and pitching for the yanks ...
2008-07-08 16:08:39
18.   williamnyy23
16 Waiting to trade Harden has risk though. He has pretty much been one pitch away from the DL his whole career. Gallagher and Murton are not insignificant players.
2008-07-08 16:16:29
19.   williamnyy23
Swinging at a pitch a good foot off the plate is not what you need from your leadoff hitter.
2008-07-08 16:18:04
20.   nick
18 Gallagher + Murton= IPK + Melky, though, more or less...
2008-07-08 16:18:24
21.   OldYanksFan
No matter how badly we need a win, Posada does NOT catch, meaning we lose Giambi or another significant bat. I guess that tells us just how bad Po's shoulder is.

And Betemin is better against LHP then Giambi?
And Melky leading off against a LHP? What a waste.

And there he goes.

2008-07-08 16:19:49
22.   cult of basebaal
18 and i don't see gallagher as much more than gaudin. murton? well, who knows what murton is, he's been jerked around by the cubs so much. what has that done his development? he can't really hold down CF and nobody really thinks he has the bat to excel at a corner spot. and he was blocked. and he was down in the cubs plans. who knows? i hope i'm wrong, i'd like to see murton do well, since he was so mishandled by the cubs, but i think beane could have gotten more for his chits.
2008-07-08 16:21:07
23.   OldYanksFan
2008-07-08 16:25:22
24.   williamnyy23
20 Going into the season, I might agree with that assessment, but Gallagher, who is younger than IPK, has better "stuff" than Kennedy. I really think Kennedy hurt his trade value by being so awful and probably isn't viewed as highly. Gallagher, meanwhile, has probably improved upon his preseason rankings.

On the offensive side of the ball, Melky has value on defense, but I am sure the A's value Murton's patience at the plate. Even though Melky is only 23, his track record could now be scaring off suitors.

2008-07-08 16:27:19
25.   williamnyy23
21 Get used to Posada not being behind the plate.

22 Not sure why you are so down on Gallagher. He has a mid-90s fastball with a very good curve. The knocks on him are command, which is something a 22-year old can learn. In many ways, his arsenal is similar to Phil Hughes, but without the polish.

2008-07-08 16:28:21
26.   nick
since I'm forced to depend on John fucking Sterling, did Melky "drift back" or did he make a great "running catch" "against the wall"? both together seem rather unlikely...
2008-07-08 16:30:18
27.   williamnyy23
26 The ball drifted, but Melky did make a nice catch, albeit one he should make.
2008-07-08 16:31:59
28.   OldYanksFan
It sounds like the Rays are set for a long run of being very good.
2008-07-08 16:32:49
29.   williamnyy23
Kazmir looks unhittable...the real unhittable, not the kind that awful lefties and mediocre righties look when facing the Yankees' hitters.
2008-07-08 16:33:08
30.   Xeifrank
wow, Kazmir is off to a great start. 5Ks in 2-IPs.
vr, Xei
2008-07-08 16:33:10
31.   ny2ca2dc
Man, Kazmir's good, but have the Yankees come back from the off day yet?
2008-07-08 16:33:45
32.   williamnyy23
28 I think they still need one or two of their prospects to emerge to cement that statement.
2008-07-08 16:34:02
33.   OldYanksFan
2008-07-08 16:34:09
34.   nick
who are these hackers? it's like we're the Angels or Twins, minus the luck....
2008-07-08 16:35:42
35.   Bruce Markusen
I don't see where Girardi has many options against left-handed pitching. If Posada can't catch, then he has to play a light-hitting catcher. Cabrera and Betemit have always been better as left-handed hitters.

This is yet another example of Cashman doing a poor job with the construction of this roster. Once it became obvious that Ensberg and Duncan weren't helping, Cashman hasn't been able to supply one capable righty bat.

It shouldn't be that difficult to acquire a Kevin Millar caliber player. (I'm not saying that Millar is necessarily the answer, but I'm just using his name to indicate the caliber of player.)Did the Yankees even talk to the Cubs about Murton, or the Cardinals about Phelps, or the Tigers about Thames? There are some decent role-playing righty bats out there that shouldn't cost an arm and a leg in return.

2008-07-08 16:37:48
36.   3rd gen yankee fan
All right, I'm here now, this hacking must cease immediately.
2008-07-08 16:38:50
37.   ny2ca2dc
35 Agree. Cash doesn't seem to like to work the edges. This team could really use any kind of RH bat - there are enough holes he could be a corner IF, OF, even a DH-only... I've advocated Josh Phelps because he could replace Moeller and be the emergency third catcher - if you're behind he could pinch hit in the 8th maybe and catch the rest of the game.
2008-07-08 16:40:03
38.   ny2ca2dc
Before I say I'm unimpressed with the return Beane got for his TWO pitchers, anyone know the contract status of Hardin and Gaudin?
2008-07-08 16:43:13
39.   williamnyy23
No bunt? Interesting.
2008-07-08 16:44:23
40.   ny2ca2dc
At least Molina is putting together an at bat.
2008-07-08 16:45:16
41.   williamnyy23
39 Score one for Girardi.
2008-07-08 16:45:52
42.   nick
Molina power! he's actually a non-worthless hitter vs. lefties...
2008-07-08 16:45:53
43.   Xeifrank
30. Jinx!
vr, Xei
2008-07-08 16:45:59
44.   ny2ca2dc
See guys, grind out an at bat, good things happen. You remember, right?
2008-07-08 16:46:45
45.   williamnyy23
Now the bunt?
2008-07-08 16:46:50
46.   nick
42 721 OPS; 565 (!) vs righties...
2008-07-08 16:48:00
47.   williamnyy23
The Yankees have to score here...I would absolutely try the squeeze.
2008-07-08 16:48:42
48.   nick
47 I would've with Gardner...
2008-07-08 16:48:50
49.   dianagramr
Ummm .... I'm late to the party .... where is Michael Kay tonight (not that I miss him).
2008-07-08 16:48:50
50.   cult of basebaal
47 i would have tried the squeeze, isn't gardner supposed to be a good bunter?
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-07-08 16:49:19
51.   cult of basebaal
50 and lord knows i have no faith in melky to manage anything
2008-07-08 16:49:59
52.   williamnyy23
48 So would I...the Yankees have had so many situations that seemed ideal for the squeeze, but Girardi has never tried it. With Gardner and Melky prime K candidates, I would have thought this would be the right time. Girardi's sit on his hands approach (and his poor lineups) continue to cost this team.
2008-07-08 16:50:18
53.   ny2ca2dc
Melky is really really reaching, swinging entirely off his front foot, arched over like crazy. Ugly.
2008-07-08 16:50:26
54.   OldYanksFan
2nd and 3rd, 1 out. I think Melky should swing harder.
2008-07-08 16:50:57
55.   nick
we don't score here....leading off Melky against a lefty is borderline insane....
2008-07-08 16:50:59
56.   cult of basebaal
51 yeah, like that.
2008-07-08 16:51:10
57.   dianagramr
re: Cubs/A's trade .... the A's should have gotten Pie and Rich Hill at least ....
2008-07-08 16:51:10
58.   OldYanksFan
Good God!
2008-07-08 16:52:12
59.   Eirias
Thank you!
2008-07-08 16:53:07
60.   nick
YES! the Captain backs up his rep...
2008-07-08 16:53:09
61.   ny2ca2dc
I remember this Derek Jeter!
2008-07-08 16:53:54
62.   cult of basebaal
phew. forget the team, I needed that hit.
2008-07-08 16:55:28
63.   nick
gotta get on here Bobby...
2008-07-08 16:56:09
64.   ny2ca2dc
I swear we've had more outs at the plate in any given month this year than all of last season.
2008-07-08 16:56:28
65.   williamnyy23
Not to pick on Jeter, especially after he got the big hit, but he has really slowed down.
2008-07-08 16:56:34
66.   nick
oh, man.....A-Rod on deck....
2008-07-08 16:58:55
67.   williamnyy23
66 And apparently not directing the runner. Did anyone notice Aarod waving Jeter to the outside in the replay? I didn't even see him in the screen.
2008-07-08 17:00:31
68.   bobtaco
According to

"Perrotto wrote that (Jack) Wilson is the Dodgers' primary trade target. He says "a Dodgers source indicated that Los Angeles might be willing to deal center fielder Matt Kemp."

How about the Yankees throw something together and get Kemp? How about trade Betemit back for him.

2008-07-08 17:01:28
69.   williamnyy23
68 That would be insane.
2008-07-08 17:02:56
70.   Alex Belth
Moose got away with one there to Pena...way to--doh! nice hop?!?! What the hell was that?
2008-07-08 17:03:30
71.   Alex Belth
Betemit is good for something!
2008-07-08 17:05:27
72.   nick
71 the sad thing is that Betemit is by far our best bench player....

I don't think the Dodgers have any intention of dealing Kemp; the LA media has a weird hate-on for him, but there's no actual evidence that they wanna deal him...

2008-07-08 17:05:36
73.   cult of basebaal
68 if colletti trades kemp for wilson (even if the trade expands and he gets bay back), i'm popping some popcorn and heading over to Dodger Thoughts for the evening!
2008-07-08 17:05:37
74.   dianagramr
Matt Kemp for Jack Wilson????? OMG!
2008-07-08 17:05:40
75.   ny2ca2dc
70 Ya MOOSE is pitching pretty good today, that Moose, who's pitching today...
2008-07-08 17:07:52
76.   Bob Timmermann
Matt Kemp is not a "ballplayer."

So why has every online source of info for this game come to a dead stop?

2008-07-08 17:09:48
77.   3rd gen yankee fan
76 ESPN conspiracy?
2008-07-08 17:11:04
78.   Bob Timmermann
How did the Yankees make the third out in the third?
2008-07-08 17:11:12
79.   nick
"eight inches, ten inches, whatever", says Sterling--Susan doesn't take the bait...
2008-07-08 17:11:29
80.   nick
78 Jeter thrown out at plate!
2008-07-08 17:12:35
81.   ny2ca2dc
I don't see why Wilson (and I'm probably one of his biggest bantering fans) ever faces lefties, especially over The Stash. (OK I know, but will deny deny deny.)
2008-07-08 17:12:51
82.   Biscuit Pants
Can we call up Ben Broussard already??
2008-07-08 17:13:34
83.   Bob Timmermann
OK, from what I could tell, the Yankees third out was the result of an Executive Order.
2008-07-08 17:13:38
84.   cult of basebaal
again, singleton is extolling the virtues of hitting .250 ... kenny, kenny, it ain't 1976 anymore ...
2008-07-08 17:14:08
85.   williamnyy23
76 Probably because the person inputting the plays screwed up the play at the plate and now they are in the process of undoing the error.
2008-07-08 17:15:19
86.   williamnyy23
84 Giambi is hitting around .250. Singleton's point is still valid. Batting average means little...OBP and SLG tell much more.
2008-07-08 17:19:05
87.   cult of basebaal
86 except he was talking about cano (whose triple splits at .250 is that weak)and he wasn't really making that distinction, he was simply talking about batting average.
2008-07-08 17:19:16
88.   Eirias
What are the restrictions on a Player to be Named Later? Is there a shortlist agreed upon by both teams as to whom it can be?
2008-07-08 17:19:30
89.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
Ohayo Gozaimasu! up 2-0 on the TB Rays, nice start to the morning. the Cubs really got Harden?? got to check ESPN for the details on that..Big Z and Harden 1 and 2 in a series..ouch..
2008-07-08 17:20:01
90.   cult of basebaal
87 he was saying that once you get to a .250ish BA that's "respectable".
2008-07-08 17:22:02
91.   williamnyy23
87 From what I heard he was...he specifically mentioned that there were lots of guys who hit .250 and knocked in 100 runs "because a lot of those hits left the ballpark". If anyone understands the value of .OBP over BA, it's Singleton, who was kind of a "walk" pioneer in the free swinging 1970s.
2008-07-08 17:22:17
92.   Biscuit Pants
Hey Jonny's hitting like Manny . . .
2008-07-08 17:23:08
93.   Biscuit Pants
and 67 pitches for Pettite after 5 . . .
2008-07-08 17:23:13
94.   williamnyy23
88 Yep...usually an agreed upon list from which to choose.
2008-07-08 17:26:12
95.   Eirias
Kazmir has got nothing. Take him out, Gardner.
2008-07-08 17:26:49
96.   Eirias
Put him in a body bag.
2008-07-08 17:27:26
97.   OldYanksFan
Did you hear those numbers on Molina? That's insane.
2008-07-08 17:27:49
98.   ny2ca2dc
Ha ha, a throw over for Molina. I bet Jose's flattered!
2008-07-08 17:27:57
99.   cult of basebaal
91 that quote's still a bit of a non-starter, since an quoting rbi amount doesn't really speak to the concept of a low ba, high obp, high slg player like jack cust ... or jason giambi ... whom i haven't heard singleton make the ".250 is now respectable" argument about. i've heard him make make that argument twice now, both times about cano. and cano isn't the type of player who can hit .250 and be very useful.
2008-07-08 17:28:48
100.   Biscuit Pants
I like this Gardner kid . . .
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-07-08 17:28:49
101.   cult of basebaal
speed kills! you watch yer ass, hacky mcheadfirstslide!
2008-07-08 17:29:43
102.   OldYanksFan
Man... Gardner seems to be up to full speed in 2 steps.
2008-07-08 17:30:21
103.   nick
and Sterling tells me that Melky's bunt is "beautiful"--your job is not "play anticipation" man, Sterling, you dumbass...
2008-07-08 17:31:51
104.   cult of basebaal
it is foul.
2008-07-08 17:32:13
105.   ny2ca2dc
101 hacky mcheadfirstslide, you're killing me. Who are you, Chyll Will?
2008-07-08 17:32:53
106.   cult of basebaal
3 at bats, 3 swinging k's on high fastBALLS.

pine time calleth, hacky.

2008-07-08 17:33:03
107.   ny2ca2dc
Flash pulling no punches on Melky. Good.
2008-07-08 17:33:57
108.   OldYanksFan
It's as if Melky WANTS to get sent down or traded...
2008-07-08 17:34:28
109.   cult of basebaal
107 yeah, i'll give him that. he's been very consistently calling hacky out for his horrid approach in the games i've watched.
2008-07-08 17:34:38
110.   ny2ca2dc
106 Trouble is - who's going to replace him? With no Damon, there's no alternative, save frigin Justin Christian, who I don't have the stomach for.
2008-07-08 17:36:06
111.   nick
the point of a batting order is for your best players to bat more over the course of the season: putting Melky Cabrera in the lead-off spot does not exactly demonstrate an understanding of this principle....
2008-07-08 17:36:10
112.   OldYanksFan
110 Coco Crisp?
2008-07-08 17:36:35
113.   bobtaco
108 Two nice catches tonight, however...
2008-07-08 17:37:11
114.   Biscuit Pants
112 Bite your tongue
2008-07-08 17:37:24
115.   cult of basebaal
110 oh, i know nothing's going to happen until damon returneth, but gardner's post-ab stock is rising, while melky's is ... well, not.
2008-07-08 17:37:38
116.   OldYanksFan
I missed the Jeter play at home. Should he have scored?
Oops... I recognize that guy.
2008-07-08 17:37:43
117.   bobtaco
110 Trade for Matt Kemp ;-)
2008-07-08 17:38:30
118.   OldYanksFan
115 It's now Melky.OB
2008-07-08 17:39:55
119.   Max
Melky can't advance the runners and swings at cheese, Cap hits into a DP. Just another day at the office for the O.

(and yes, I know Cap got a big hit earlier, it just drives me crazy how many times this type of inning has played out this season)

2008-07-08 17:39:58
120.   williamnyy23
That's a big missed opportunity. Not only had Girardi's stupid decision to bat one of his worst hitters against lefties in the lead off spot come back to bite him, but it appears as if the coaching staff has better things to do than actually teach Melky how to bunt. Missed opportunities have been a 2008 Yankees trademark, and part of the blame seems to be a lack of preparation.
2008-07-08 17:41:02
121.   cult of basebaal
113 two catches gardner makes (in all likelihood). melky's not a great CF (except for the arm) he doesn't get great jumps and his routes aren't that good either. he generally makes the plays he should, but he also has a tendency to make them more difficult than he should.
2008-07-08 17:41:25
122.   ny2ca2dc
117 I wonder what it would take to get Pie or Kemp. I wonder if trading Abreu plus a minor league pitcher would get it done (not that the Cubs need a RF, but just in general). I think the Dodgers would jump at that, and be surprised when Abreu isn't an upgrade over Kemp even right now...
2008-07-08 17:42:29
123.   ny2ca2dc
121 Get out of my head!
2008-07-08 17:42:51
124.   williamnyy23
115 It's nice to be excited about Gardner, but he did enter the game with an OPS of .351. It seems like the Banter is turning Gardner into David Eckstein. I know he is gritty, but ...
2008-07-08 17:43:03
125.   cult of basebaal
man, i do enjoy a good andy start.
2008-07-08 17:44:00
126.   OldYanksFan
120 I agree. The coaching staff and Girardi must take some of the blame for Melky. With JD injured, it's tough. I would bring up JC (for a week), send Melky down, and do nothing but drill him on fundimentals, bunting, plate discipline and maybe get himto choke-up a bit.
2008-07-08 17:45:20
127.   williamnyy23
121 The last time I checked, Melky rates very, very highly in most defensive metrics. I don't get all this Gardner love at the expense of Melky. Heck, Gardner is actually older than Melky too!
2008-07-08 17:46:33
128.   ny2ca2dc
126 Hell, why not just let AJax get his feet wet.
2008-07-08 17:47:11
129.   OldYanksFan
124 It's not that Brett is so good, as much as Melky is so bad. When you consider his speed, it seems time to swap them (when JD comes back).
2008-07-08 17:52:09
130.   cult of basebaal
124 eckstein's career obp is .355 and his ops+ is 89. same as melky's actually. if gardner can hit like an average eckstein season, he's a better player than melky ... or at least this year's current version of hacky mcheadfirstslide. as i have repeatedly said with gardner, who knows if he can hack it up here, but he deserves a shot, because i think he's a better fit for this team's needs, even as an ecksteinian hitter.
2008-07-08 17:53:30
131.   williamnyy23
129 Yes, but Gardner has been even worse in his short 30 PA stint. I know he has speed, but so do Tony Womack, Michael Bourne and Juan Pierre.
2008-07-08 17:55:14
132.   williamnyy23
130 If Gardner can hit like Eckstein, that means he's also be hitting like Melky, so why does that make him a better hitter than Melky? Gardner has shown very little in his short stint to make me so anxious to install him as a starter.
2008-07-08 17:55:20
133.   seattleyank
Gardner's approach seem so much better. Gardner's making outs, and has on occasion been overpowered, but he at least seems to be having good at bats. Melky, by contrast, seems to be giving at bats away cheaply and carelessly.
2008-07-08 17:56:11
134.   williamnyy23
Pettitte has to bear down here...the Yankees have squandered chances so he has no margin for error. With the middle of the order up, the game could be decided here.
2008-07-08 17:56:55
135.   Max
I'm not exactly in love with Gardner just yet, but Melky has been incredibly useless on offense these days...Womack levels of uselessness. I'm just gritting my teeth and hoping the ASB allows him to clear his head.
2008-07-08 17:57:39
136.   williamnyy23
133 I agree that he is more patient, but also doesn't take a full swing. I don't know how productive he can be slapping balls the other way. Of his three hits so far, only one has been struck well.
2008-07-08 17:58:11
137.   Eirias
Major league pitching truly amazes me. I mean, I'm not too bad at it as an abject amateur, but it seems like a miracle that balls ever miss bats.
2008-07-08 17:58:19
138.   cult of basebaal
132 it makes him a better player than melky once defense and speed (and high SB rate) are accounted for. and, if he hits for the same ops+ as melky, it will be obp heavy, which, well, is more important, especially with that speed, especially in the 9 slot.

and frankly, melky's not shown me much since may to keep him as the starter, other than inertia.

2008-07-08 17:59:20
139.   williamnyy23
135 But didn't RLYF do an analysis showing that Melky's defense was so good, he has pretty much been break even this year? If the Yankees had a clear better choice, I'd agree with the anti-Melky crowd, but I haven't seen anything from Gardner to suggest he is the answer.
2008-07-08 18:00:19
140.   OldYanksFan
Tremendous jump
2008-07-08 18:00:23
141.   ny2ca2dc
re: Melky vs Gardner, the situation has actually made this pretty easy: They both start until Damon is ready to come back, then you decide. It should be enough time to get some kind of read on Gardner.
2008-07-08 18:01:24
142.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
131 not a Juan Pierre fan? but he "sets the table" and is the "sparkplug" who "gets things going"...
2008-07-08 18:02:22
143.   bobtaco
122 Colletti + Torre + Abreu = You never know

I wonder if Cashman would be interested...

2008-07-08 18:02:48
144.   ny2ca2dc
142 see 114
2008-07-08 18:03:22
145.   cult of basebaal
141 spot on.

meanwhile, NICE PITCH ANDY!!!

2008-07-08 18:04:10
146.   OldYanksFan
139 I don't think Brett is the answer. I just don't think you can let Melky have such bad ABs and continue to play him. Maybe I'm being parental, and I don't want to 'punish' Melky, but something has to change with him.
2008-07-08 18:04:35
147.   seattleyank
139 I don't think Gardner's a long-term solution either. But he does seem to be making some things happen. As a stop gap, his speed is intriguing. Melky seems to be going backwards, actively regressing before our eyes.
2008-07-08 18:05:05
148.   williamnyy23
138 Again, RLYW did an analysis showing Melky as the third best CF'er in the league on defense. He has been so good with the glove, that it has almost offset his very poor hitting. So, if we factor in defense, I think the advantage goes to Melky.
2008-07-08 18:06:23
149.   OldYanksFan
148 With his speed, might Gardner be as good on defense?
2008-07-08 18:07:20
150.   bobtaco
Hell of a start by Pettitte and a hell of a play by Jeter!
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-07-08 18:07:34
151.   williamnyy23
149 Maybe, but we know Melky "has been" that good. Also, Melky has a + arm, while Gardner's is solid at best.

Great play by DJ...this is the kind of the game the Yankees will need from him until Matsui and Damon get back.

2008-07-08 18:08:11
152.   ny2ca2dc
OK cap, attaboy! In fairness that's the play Jeter gets overrated on, but F it: Boo Ya!
2008-07-08 18:08:47
153.   Max
Farns or Veras in the 8th?

Great start by Andy.

2008-07-08 18:10:49
154.   OldYanksFan
152 That was a great play. He was well into the OF. Credit where credit is due. Was Andy pumped after that play or what?
2008-07-08 18:12:01
155.   ny2ca2dc
153 Good question - and a nice time to praise Girardi's BP management. He still does some of the orthodox baseball crap, like no closer tied on the road, and no closer at the highest leverage point even if that's the 7th. But besides that, I think he's been very very good. The relievers have been mentioning it in their interviews, but there are no roles in the BP besides Mo (and maybe Hawk as the towel boy), and Girardi has been getting yeomans work from the likes of Farns, Veras, Edwar, etc.
2008-07-08 18:15:04
156.   Alex Belth
Okay, I don't mean to project bad things, but as nice as the 2-0 lead is, and as nice as it was to get rid of Kazmir early, the Yankees have had some horrible at bats (Melky thrice, Betemit twice), and are still in a vulnerable position.

Mariano was owned Upton so far in the young guy's career. I can recall at least three occasions where Upton whiffed, totally over-matched against Mo. But Upton is swinging a really hot bat. And if the Yanks don't score some extrie runs, looks like he'll face Mo. I just hope nobody is on base when he gets up. It'll be a good test to see where he's at.

2008-07-08 18:15:07
157.   cult of basebaal
148 as of june 21st, SG has him at -8 pBRAA and +4RS, for a total of -4, which places him tied for 10th among eligible AL CF's.

so his glove takes back half of the value his bat gives away.

2008-07-08 18:15:11
158.   nick
Andy's era back under 4....100 pitches, 71 strikes--is he coming out for the 8th?
2008-07-08 18:17:47
159.   bobtaco
156 Who says Andy isn't going the distance?
2008-07-08 18:18:40
160.   williamnyy23
156 Actually, Upton has been really struggling (.637 OPS over his last 28 games). Of course, you could probably argue that only means he is overdue.

Your main point is valid, however. The Yankees have not had many good ABs, but then again, they don't really have many good hitters in the lineup.

2008-07-08 18:19:13
161.   Shaun P
155 I agree completely. Girardi's bullpen management is the last thing I worry about.

151 Right, but its not like we have nothing to judge Gardner on. Only 30 ABs at the MLB level, so I won't look at those numbers . . . but his #s in the high minors translate very nicely. BP's Davenport Translations take his minor league numbers and give us .279/.401/.429. That's not what he should hit in the bigs right now*, but if he could manage a .350 OBP, and I believe he could**, he's immensely more valuable than Melky and his Neifi-tastic sub. 300 OBP over the last 2 months, defense be damned.

*Davenport explains: "Everybody, from every park, is translated to the same underlying
standard. Hitters go to a league that hits .270/.330/.420 with a .260 EqA"

**FWIW, the average AL line this year is .264/.332/.410, awfully close to the translated standard, so I think expecting Gardner to manage a .350 OBP is very reasonable.

2008-07-08 18:19:31
162.   Eirias
159 Is he going for speed?
2008-07-08 18:20:01
163.   ny2ca2dc
160 Roger that; the hitters Alejandro fairly called out both can't hit lefties at all.
2008-07-08 18:20:14
164.   williamnyy23
157 Exactly...Melky's glove has been very good this year, so Gardner would have to hit much better than he has to warrant taking over the job.
2008-07-08 18:21:53
165.   ny2ca2dc
164 Or chase 'em down as well - and I don't think that's a stretch.
2008-07-08 18:21:59
166.   nick
160 we are playing three bench guys tonight (Molina, Gardner, Betemit)--I don't think this team can afford to EVER play three bench guys...
2008-07-08 18:22:30
167.   Eirias
What kind of hat was Suzyn Waldman wearing? And fuck yeah, Pettitte!
2008-07-08 18:23:36
168.   bobtaco
162 He's rolling. His 5th 1-2-3 ??

I know you go to Mo for the 9th, but it would be nice if someone other than Roy Halladay could pitch a CG once in awhile.

2008-07-08 18:23:56
169.   nick
eg: Molina should basically play only against lefties and late innings; Betemit against righties and late innings...
2008-07-08 18:24:08
170.   williamnyy23
161 Gardner is a 24 year old in the minors. I wonder what numbers 23-year old Melky would put up in the minors, and then to what that would project? Besides, Melky already has a career .OBP of .334 in the majors, so I think that counts for more than a projection about what Gardner would do.
2008-07-08 18:24:15
171.   ny2ca2dc
167 Here little hair hat there

2008-07-08 18:24:50
172.   Shaun P
BTW: for those wondering why Giambi sat, my guess is because his career numbers vs Kazmir flat out suck:

.125/.176/.125, 1 BB, 7 K, 2 singles, 16 AB

Besides, the Porn Stache of Doom is 38; what better time to give the 'Stache a night off? Seems pretty hot and humid in the Bronx tonight . . .

2008-07-08 18:24:52
173.   nick
Andy!--114 pitches, 8 is enough...I'd send him out if he was under 105, but not here--
2008-07-08 18:25:17
174.   williamnyy23
165 So basically, Gardner might be as good as Melky running down balls..and he might be as good as he is with the bat. Again, I don't see why that warrants taking Melky's job.
2008-07-08 18:25:48
175.   Eirias
Sit that man!
2008-07-08 18:25:54
176.   williamnyy23
Take that Melky haters!! That's my boy!
2008-07-08 18:25:59
177.   bobtaco
167 Maybe she is a whirling dervish in training?

2008-07-08 18:26:27
178.   Alex Belth
Redemption for Melkawitz!
2008-07-08 18:26:33
179.   seattleyank
The Gardner contingent (myself included) just lost the debate (for one evening at least).
2008-07-08 18:26:49
180.   nick
good god! ok, I'll allow Sterling surprise on that one, given the situation...
2008-07-08 18:27:01
181.   ny2ca2dc
Like we've been saying, Melky suxorz
2008-07-08 18:27:10
182.   williamnyy23
172 I don't think it was a bad decision to sit Giambi against Kazmir...with Monday's day off, I am sure Jason will benefit from the back-to-back.
2008-07-08 18:27:30
183.   cult of basebaal
164 only if melky has a couple more aprils in his bat. which i'll gladly take. but he's not playing like a -8 yearly total player right now. he's much worse.

hahahah. i could take this post back but i won't. well done melky, no golden sombrero for you!

2008-07-08 18:29:21
184.   ny2ca2dc
Some more platoon players, at least a RH 4th OF, could really help Melky (especially). My kingdom for Reed Johnson and Kevin Millar...
2008-07-08 18:30:29
185.   Shaun P
170 I don't know, but I'd like to find out.

Let me be clear - I think Melky is the better player in the end, and much more likely to have a better career than Gardner, because he got to the majors and preformed reasonably well at age 21. I do think Melky will bounce back.

BUT - he's been lost at the plate for over 2 months now. And while his career OBP is .334, the track record is:

21 - .360
22 - .327
23 - .312

Here's OPS+:

21 - 95
22 - 87
23 - 78

Those numbers are going the wrong way. Melky ought to be getting better. That he isn't suggests something is wrong. Hence, why not try Gardner?

2008-07-08 18:31:03
186.   williamnyy23
183 Melky has been awful lately, but we have seen him have long stretches at league average or better, and his defense has improved so much to the point that he may actually be among the best in the game. Absent a clear alternative, I don't want to pull the plug on a 23-year old who still has potential, especially not for a 24-year old slash and bunt type.
2008-07-08 18:32:09
187.   OldYanksFan
173 Ditto. No reason to let him throw 125+ pitches. No way Girardi does that. Mo for a stat-padding Save.
2008-07-08 18:32:31
188.   williamnyy23
184 The Yankees do desparately need a RH bat and someone like Millar seems as if it would be a perfect fit.
2008-07-08 18:33:11
189.   cult of basebaal
mommy, can i watch this team play EVERY night???
2008-07-08 18:33:12
190.   Alex Belth
Didn't it look like Jeter slid into home and then just looked DEAD tired, and old?
2008-07-08 18:33:47
191.   cult of basebaal
187 it's edwar time.
2008-07-08 18:33:48
192.   OldYanksFan
187 Oops. Here comes Farnsworth. This game situation has A-Bomb written all over it.
2008-07-08 18:34:19
193.   nick
bring in the RHP and we get happy!

Looking at bb-ref, our lefties hit lefties fine; it's our righties who, relative to league, can't hit lefties for shit: 76sOPS+

2008-07-08 18:34:55
194.   Alex Belth
C'mon Alex!
2008-07-08 18:34:59
195.   ChrisS
187 Let Edwar get the 9th.

186 I'm firmly in the camp that there's no overwhelming reason to bench Melky for someone not much better than him, and a year older. Gardner is a nice 4th OFer type with pinch runner game-changing speed. I like him as a bench guy.

2008-07-08 18:35:06
196.   ny2ca2dc
188 Kevin Millar has been a perfect fit for 2+ years running. Do you know how painful it is to type that.
2008-07-08 18:35:20
197.   Alex Belth
Poor swing on the first pitch, A Rod reaching...
2008-07-08 18:35:21
198.   dianagramr

A-Rod kept Jetes up til 3 am last night playing Wii ...

2008-07-08 18:35:25
199.   rsmith51
190 My wife said the same thing.

Farns for the ninth...

2008-07-08 18:35:43
200.   williamnyy23
185 If you agree that Melky has more talent and will likely wind up with a better career, the question should be, why would you try Gardner?
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2008-07-08 18:35:49
201.   Alex Belth
2008-07-08 18:36:08
202.   Eirias
Alright Giants, time to take Timmy Lincecum out behind the barn and shoot him.
2008-07-08 18:36:21
203.   Alex Belth
C'mon Jorge!
2008-07-08 18:36:22
204.   nick
190 dude, you're so literary!--cue the voice of Howard Cosell: "the aging Je-tah climbs up and heads for the dugout"
2008-07-08 18:36:23
205.   williamnyy23
Arod is pulling everything...he usually goes into these mini-pull fests before quickly correcting it. Hopefully, he figures it out quickly.
2008-07-08 18:36:54
206.   Alex Belth
There ya go.
2008-07-08 18:37:41
207.   Alex Belth
2008-07-08 18:37:43
208.   rsmith51
200 I think Gardner will make an outstanding 4th OF/PR. His ceiling is probably Brett Butler, which would be great, but not too likely.
2008-07-08 18:37:48
209.   Eirias
Seriously, Minnesota? Seriously? Thanks.
2008-07-08 18:38:04
210.   nick
cmon, pad those stats, Betemit...
2008-07-08 18:38:07
211.   Shaun P
189 Yes cult, there is a Santa Claus.

188 Would Angelos sanction a trade to Steinbrenner's team though?

2008-07-08 18:38:29
212.   Alex Belth
Well, at least he put a good swing on it.
2008-07-08 18:38:33
213.   williamnyy23
The Twins should have won both yesterday and today, but both times they refused to use their better relievers in the 8th inning. Damn it.
2008-07-08 18:38:42
214.   ny2ca2dc
185 If you think resting or sending Melky down would help him now and in the future. Let him get his swing right. See if Brett can be lighting in a bottle while the team teeters in contention.

Again, it's all moot (mute?) now, Brett has Damon's slot. And if he can't pair his nice at bats to nice swings on hittable pitches, he'll be gone when JD comes back. I like his at bats, but agree his swings are pretty weak. Just like his book said.

2008-07-08 18:38:55
215.   Alex Belth
The Twinkies freakin stinkies.
2008-07-08 18:39:04
216.   Max
Minny choking for the second night in a row...ugh. It was shaping up to be a really great evening.
2008-07-08 18:39:25
217.   Alex Belth
C'Mon Robbie!
2008-07-08 18:39:28
218.   nick
god damn Twinkies had to come back to earth this week....I hate that team....
2008-07-08 18:40:18
219.   williamnyy23
Crap...a nice win for the Yankees and then the Sox come back and you realize Ponson is pitching tomorrow.
2008-07-08 18:41:07
220.   OldYanksFan
196 Actually, having Millar, JD and Giambi in the clubhouse might be real good for these guys.

Jeez... Minn leading the Sox 5-2 after 7.5 IP, and then give up 4 runs in the bottom of the 8th. Sox up 6-5.

2008-07-08 18:42:02
221.   cult of basebaal
195 208 and i think melky will make a wonderful 4th OF. he's got the range and arm to fill in anywhere.

why not try something else?

you can always go back to melky until you can find something better.

2008-07-08 18:42:30
222.   Shaun P
200 Having Melky play through not hitting isn't working; the last week doesn't offset the past 2+ months. Having him sit for a week might clear his head, focus him, motivate him, get him back on track. At this point, its worth a shot . . .

Except that, with no Damon and no Matsui, its not happening now, and if Melky keeps hitting, its a moot point.

2008-07-08 18:43:39
223.   ChrisS
Robbie is cooking up something good here, I feel it.

221 Frankly, I think they're both 4th OFers, but there's one's got a higher ceiling.

2008-07-08 18:43:43
224.   OldYanksFan
Papsmear in for the Sox.
2008-07-08 18:43:51
225.   williamnyy23
220 And never used Crain or Nathan, while only letting Reyes face two batters. Gardenhire made the same mistake yesterday when he went to Bass in the 8th. This is what sucks about being in the have to rely on other teams to do your dirty work.
2008-07-08 18:45:32
226.   williamnyy23
222's worth a shot if you have viable options.
2008-07-08 18:45:53
227.   cult of basebaal
222 and it'll be a mute point for us, we'll find something else to banter about ...
2008-07-08 18:45:57
228.   Alex Belth
Dare I say, that was the best at bat of the season for robbie.
2008-07-08 18:46:31
229.   cult of basebaal
there's the RIPPER I know and love.


2008-07-08 18:46:33
230.   ny2ca2dc
I know this guy!
2008-07-08 18:46:43
231.   williamnyy23
Bobby Meacham is really a horrible third base coach. Good thing Jorge isn't a kamikaze.
2008-07-08 18:46:47
232.   Alex Belth
I will always contend that Jorgie was a worse, re: more reckless, base runner than Bernie, who was always knocked for his base running.
2008-07-08 18:46:50
233.   vockins
2008-07-08 18:47:54
234.   nick
any career opportunities you'd care to suggest for Meacham, william?
2008-07-08 18:48:01
235.   ny2ca2dc
My kingdom for Larry Bowa
2008-07-08 18:48:26
236.   cult of basebaal
227 like go-go bobby meacham and his indefatigable arm of waving!
2008-07-08 18:48:31
237.   ny2ca2dc
234 I hear double-A needs a third base coach.
2008-07-08 18:48:38
238.   williamnyy23
234 Third base coach for the Red Sox would be a perfect fit.
2008-07-08 18:49:12
239.   Shaun P
215 et al

F'in Gardenhire. He sucks. I was at last night's game. Baker baffles the Red Sox for 7 innings, 98 pitches. So with the heart of the order up in a 0-0 game, and Papelbon warming, what does Gardy do? Uses Brian Bass - he of the 55 IP, 9! HR, 18 BB and 22 K. His chief setup guy, Crain, doesn't start to warm up until after the damage is done. Of course Nathan rots on the bench for the save opp that never comes.

Then tonight - 3 run lead, top of the order up, Crain and Nathan sit again, he goes to Guerrier (47 IP, 4 HR but 21 BB vs 33 K). What a frickin' moron.

2008-07-08 18:49:50
240.   Max
232 I never had high expectations for Jorge as far as baserunning smarts, given his wheels. Bernie, though, was more baffling to me, given his athleticism...but Bernie was a baffling guy generally.

But yeah, they both suck on the bases.

2008-07-08 18:50:48
241.   williamnyy23
232 Man I miss Bernie.
2008-07-08 18:50:52
242.   ny2ca2dc
Maybe we can trade Melky to LAD for Bowa.
2008-07-08 18:50:53
243.   nick
the Molina OPB now above 250!
2008-07-08 18:51:13
244.   OldYanksFan
Nick Punto with a 10 pitch Ab so far... and a bloop single to CF... pastadiving Coco.
Lead off double!
2008-07-08 18:51:16
245.   Travis08
232 Posada's career highlight as a baserunner:

YANKEES 12TH: Velarde struck out; Boggs walked; POSADA RAN FOR BOGGS; BELCHER REPLACED NELSON (PITCHING); B. Williams walked [Posada to second]; O'Neill flied to left; Sierra doubled to left [Posada scored, B. Williams out at home (left to shortstop to catcher)]; 1 R, 1 H, 0 E, 1 LOB. Mariners 5, Yankees 5.

2008-07-08 18:51:30
246.   OldYanksFan
Sac bunt. Man on 3rd, 1 out.
2008-07-08 18:51:59
247.   nick
Bernie was absolutely my favorite Yankee...
2008-07-08 18:52:36
248.   OldYanksFan
Jason Kubel up. 1-1 count.
2008-07-08 18:53:26
249.   Eirias
Houston, we have lift-off.
2008-07-08 18:54:13
250.   nick
Edwar hitting 93!?...and ballgame!!!
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2008-07-08 18:54:14
251.   vockins
Huge win.
2008-07-08 18:54:15
252.   OldYanksFan
Full count.
2008-07-08 18:54:16
253.   ny2ca2dc
Has Edwar's command improved while I was sleeping?
2008-07-08 18:54:35
254.   williamnyy23
245 I was at that game...the most fun game I've ever attended.
2008-07-08 18:54:35
255.   OldYanksFan
Swinging K for Paps. 2 out.
2008-07-08 18:54:38
256.   nick
Edwar to Pete Abraham: "Suck....on...this!"
2008-07-08 18:54:42
257.   ny2ca2dc
2008-07-08 18:55:41
258.   williamnyy23
255 Why not keep Gomez in and squeeze? Against dominant closers, the squeeze play seems like such a potent weapon. This was such a poorly managed game by Gardenhire.
2008-07-08 18:55:44
259.   cult of basebaal
if when a batter strikes out on a nasty fastball, he gets the "gas face" ... when a batter strikes out on edwar's change-up, does he get the "laughing-gas face"???
2008-07-08 18:56:23
260.   OldYanksFan
Minn. loses... Sox win. Shit.
2008-07-08 18:57:15
261.   nick
...and the horseshoe seems to have fallen out of the Twins' ass...
2008-07-08 18:57:50
262.   Shaun P
I wonder if the Fenway crowd just cheered, because TB lost and the Sox are on the verge of winning - or booed, because the Yanks beat Tampa? I'll bet they booed.

I took the Fenway tour yesterday, which was very neat - but it might as well have been a Yankees history lesson! Half the spiel was about our Bombers.

I'm guessing if one takes the Stadium tour, there is not so much mentioning of the Red Sox.

2008-07-08 19:02:16
263.   Shaun P
Oh, and one other thing - I'm no hip hop listener, but I'm pretty sure that Pedroia comes to the plate to the Intro from Dr Dre's "The Chronic".

Mike Lowell uses Sabbath's "Iron Man", which is awesome. I always liked that guy.

2008-07-08 19:05:08
264.   rsmith51
241 247 Agreed about Bernie. Even with his sometimes awful instincts and the GOB phase, I loved Bernie.

7 straight 900+ OPS for a CF is freaking awesome.

Man, the Yanks should have signed Beltran...

2008-07-08 19:06:44
265.   rsmith51
263 Oh, and never resigned Brosious, Lowell was the up and comer.
2008-07-08 19:17:09
266.   Alex Belth
Nice win.
2008-07-08 19:19:51
267.   williamnyy23
266 But can they win the Posnon and Rasner games, which will be the question that dogs the Yankees this summer.
2008-07-08 19:27:11
268.   cult of basebaal
267 oh ye of little faith, don'tcha know that carl pavano threw a BP session today???
2008-07-08 19:44:54
269.   Marek
239 I was there too. How frustrating that was! An incomplete list of things that I thought Gardenhire did wrong (before the results were manifest, i.e., not second-guessing):
1. Pitching to Manny.
2. Pinch-hitting for Kubel with the bases loaded.
3. Not trying a steal or hit-and-run with Castilla on first via bunt.

The relief pitching choices have already been addressed.

(Long time lurker, first time poster! Hi everyone!)

2008-07-08 21:06:34
270.   Shaun P
269 Welcome!

Yeah, I was surprised when he lifted Kubel for Monroe too. I know Kubel doesn't hit lefties, but Monroe doesn't either, and in that situation, you'd think he'd go with the superior hitter. At least it was a quick game.

2008-07-09 02:01:29
271.   TimBrow
Wow,it is interesting that a long term Yankee fan has no rights in the first amendment. I am 3 for 3. Great that the guys chat about this and that. Is this site covered by a Yankee (I'd say the word, but can't). I gave a fairly eloquent argument the other day. Deleted. Follow on, deleted. Tonights, deleted. Does anyone care? I am no idiot. Trust me, I forgot more than most know. The truth hurts. I am not trying to be malicious. I am trying to provide a point of view that is factual. I guess I am on the wrong site with the wrong crowd. So, #4. If per chance, drop me an email so we can discuss this. I would appreciate your perspective. I am moving forward either way. Many people are on the tracks. Train is running and they are going down, trust me. Not my problem. Bernie Williams number retired and the eradication of the person solely responsible for the current State of the Union. This is baseball, the Yankee drive is to win WS. Sell Girl scout cookies if you don't get my point.
2008-07-09 03:14:48
272.   TimBrow
Cashman needs a longgggg vacation
2008-07-09 05:16:58
273.   Rob Middletown CT
What the hell is this Tim guy talking about?
2008-07-09 09:46:47
274.   Shaun P
273 Beats me. He's no legal scholar, as the First Amendment keeps only the government from regulating speech. A private enterprise can do whatever the hell they want.

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