Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
You Buggin
2008-07-01 19:46
by Alex Belth

From the Game Thread:

Millwood's looking like Scott Feldman tonight...

...And the Yankee offense is looking like Marty Feldman.

Rangers 3, Yanks 2.  Mariano takes the loss.  This one hurts like a Molina cross-up to the cubes.

Joe G's got some 'splainin to do.  Yankee fans, please stay away from sharp objects.

2008-07-01 19:57:40
1.   tommyl
Yeah, Joe's explanation makes no sense. Melky bunts, which leads to Damon. Damon has been hitting really well. Then you have Gardner, which gives the opportunity to PH with Jeter, followed by Abreu and A-Rod. Sorry Joe, wrong fucking move.
2008-07-01 20:13:55
2.   Jeb
Great picture. My favorite comment last night was someone writing, "I can't believe we lost to the bizarro Kramer". So, I guess we lost to Fargas tonight (or Gene).

Wow what a bad move by Girardi. I am highly disappointed. I wonder what it would be like it he got fired tomorrow morning and the Yankees hired Willie Randolph, Tony Pena, Bobby Valentine (not that I even know where Bobby is) or someone else. Hank would definitely forge his birthright if he did something like that.

2008-07-01 20:16:21
3.   cult of basebaal
dammit, MARTY FELDMAN's a HALL OF FAME comedian! he doesn't warrant this shameful comparison to the 2008 NY Yankees!


2008-07-01 20:16:46
4.   cult of basebaal
2008-07-01 20:18:04
5.   cult of basebaal
2 jesus, valentine (or davey johnson) i could see, but did you watch willie manage the Mutts????????
2008-07-01 20:18:23
6.   cult of basebaal
2008-07-01 20:23:31
7.   williamnyy23
Being a sports fan can really suck at times. If you are in a relationship that you know is going to end poorly, you get out of it. If you buy a stock and all the fundamental tell you it will continue to decline, you cut your losses and sell. If you car is breaking down and every sign tells you to junk it, you get a new one. But when you are a diehard fan, even if every rational thought tells you there is no hope for the season, you show up the next day and watch Sydney Ponson get hammered, only to be left wondering why.
2008-07-01 20:26:18
8.   williamnyy23
5 I didn't think Willie did a bad job at all. I certainly do not recall a move as egregious as Girardi's tonight...and not because of the outcome, but because of the explanation. I thought Torre's "he looked like he had fire in his belly" reasons were bewildering, but completely misusing stats is far more dangerous.
2008-07-01 20:32:47
9.   Mattpat11
For the people that complain when i say Joe Girardi has no recognizable strategy and just does stuff, explain the bottom of the ninth.

Forget Cabrera. Why the hell did he put in a pinch runner and then do NOTHING with him? Not a stolen base, not a bunt, not a fucking hit and run. He made the point of sending in a pinch runner so he could STAND THERE.

Joe Girardi picks his moves out of a hat. He just does stuff. He really sort of sucks.

2008-07-01 20:35:38
10.   williamnyy23
9 The question with Girardi is how entrenched is he in the job? He not only has a huge contract, but I am sure Hank and Hal don't want to look foolish and fire Girardi so soon, which would kind of be like admitting it was a mistake to let Torre go. Of course, if the Dodgers keep playing so poorly, maybe that perception would be alleviated some. Hey, Donnie Baseball is still out there. Can we have a do over?
2008-07-01 20:44:57
11.   Mattpat11
10 Last year I was here constantly saying that I really don't think the vast majority of major league managers are all that different. I still feel that way, but I think Girardi may be in way over his head. He seems to just be throwing shit at the wall all season long, and its not really sticking.
2008-07-01 20:51:01
12.   claybeez
9 Just got back from the game. The Cabrera thing was baffling. I was about ready to jump down from the tier and throttle Girardi. As you said, why the hell bring in Gonzalez for nothing. Gonzalez didn't seem able to get a good read on the lefty, always heading back to 1st with the pitch. That in now way excuses not even attempting a bunt to move him to 2nd. Bonehead managing.
2008-07-01 22:05:29
13.   monkeypants
Last thread I was spouting off about carrying three catchers. Out of frustration I'll throw out an unrealistic trade idea:

What do you think it would take to trade for someone like Greg Zaun? He could be slotted in as the starting C, with Molina as the BUC and Posada as a full time DH (with occasional starts at C) for the rest of the season.

That would leave only Melky/Gardner as a major hole in the lineup (assuming Cano keeps coming around).

I know, this is crazy and borne of frustration and lack of sleep. I'm just trying to think of some move that can fill some of the gaping holes in the lineup, because if this team is going to do anything this year, it needs to start slugging the ball.

2008-07-01 22:25:35
14.   a O
Leche definitely should have bunted AND THEN NOT SLID INTO FIRST.

The guy's a good CF, but he's got some holes out there and he's not that smart a ballplayer. Trade bait.

But Gardner's got to hit. And, ironically, the biggest need right now is someone who can hit at the bottom of the lineup.

If Hideki comes back, you've got a DH. And a second one in Giambi. Got a LF. Got a RF. Strong catcher. SS. 3B. Only weak spots are are 2B and CF.

Time to live with two catchers. Trade Melky and Cano for an infielder who can play second and hit.

Anybody got any ideas?

2008-07-01 22:57:18
15.   SF Yanks
14 Yeah, don't trade Cano.
2008-07-02 04:18:24
16.   JL25and3
14 Melky's trade value right now is zero.
2008-07-02 04:21:31
17.   JL25and3
This is from Brian Heyman over at LoHud:

'Joe Girardi said this about Melky Cabrera: "Melky is our center fielder." But Cabrera is on a career-high 0-for-19 skid and batting .240. The manager indicated that rookie Brett Gardner is here to play and said, "Competition is great. I think it brings out the best in people." But Girardi just said that Gardner, a natural center fielder, could give Cabrera a break on occasion.'

I want to see the pictures Melky has of Girardi. They must be awesome.

2008-07-02 05:02:59
18.   rbj
Hell no to Valentine. I cannot stand that smug self-important SOB.

What bothers me most is not Melky hitting into the DP, c'mon we all saw that coming like it was coming down Broadway with all lights flashing, but his calm reaction going back into the dugout afterwards. I appreciate that not every player is going to throw a tantrum after every bad AB, but right there I was hoping for Melky to go all Paul O'Neill on the water cooler.

2008-07-02 05:03:49
19.   Rob Middletown CT
I went to bed when Mariano gave up the run. I'm glad I didn't watch the end.

18 innings. 3 runs. AGAINST THE RANGERS.

4 runs surrendered by the pitching staff. Major kudos to them for that - and all the more frustrating to see two L's result.

2008-07-02 05:04:39
20.   Rob Middletown CT
Ack. I meant 5 runs surrendered. Still, point stands.
2008-07-02 05:12:33
21.   Rob Middletown CT
Sign the bad man. Do it. This team still has a shot, but it needs help.
2008-07-02 05:18:56
22.   stringtheorist
A friend pointed me to this site. I will be at tomorrow's game. I am from out of town and will have a backpack. Anyone know a place near the Stadium where I can check in a bag for the duration of the game?

Thanks for any pointers.

2008-07-02 05:38:24
23.   Knuckles
Bowling alley across the street has a bag check.
That or leave it at a hotel.
2008-07-02 06:08:17
24.   RIYank
Yeah, when Betemit came up to bat I was thinking, "Hm, new pitcher, might be a little wild, a walk and then Melky could bunt..." And it looked like it was unfolding according to plan, too!

Of course, down a run you aren't bound to play for one run. Win Expectancy goes down with a successful sacrifice. But with Melky batting, it just seems like a no-brainer; his chance of getting a hit in that situation was minuscule.

2008-07-02 06:12:20
25.   3rd gen yankee fan
Put me down for another who saw Melky's GIDP coming.

I remain unconvinced that we are trying to get into the playoffs this year.

2008-07-02 06:19:20
26.   monkeypants
24 Whatever the decision, letting Melky swing away should have been the last option. Either you have him bunt, or you pinch hit for him. I would have batted Jeter then and worried about Gardner later.
2008-07-02 06:24:24
27.   monkeypants
13 Last night, in a fit of frustration while watching Toronto play out west, I advocated trading for someone like Greg Zaun. I still stand by this position to a degree: if the team feels that it must carry three catchers, two of them cannot flat out suck.

Some of the benches this team had the last couple of years were bad, but right now is pretty bleak. After Betemit (who has been a decent BUIF and lefty bat), you're looking at Molina, Moeller (who is never used), and AG (who is never used).


2008-07-02 06:38:50
28.   horace-clarke-era
I dodged the game thread again, knowing the mood there would be so bad as to kill a night's sleep, but the Yanks did it to a degree, anyhow. It is easy (and correct!) to dump on Joe G, and Melky needs some time off or a time out in his room, but the game was lost over 9 innings of continued bad hitting. It is painful to get 3 runs in two games off Texas when our iffy starting rotation gives us such a good pair of starts. That feels like a massive opportunity wasted to put big pressure on (it turns out) Boston.

The pinch runner was fine for me, whatever you decide to do. He still needs to score and there's nothing else Gonzalez is going to do. But either Melky bunts or if you have a sabr-like desire not to bunt away an out, Jeter has to pinch hit there. If the kid is good enough to bat lead off for you, and then bat 2nd, he's good enough to swing away if Damon hasn't delivered. If you feel otherwise, bunt Melky. In other words, yes to 26 .

But as I said, this game was lost over 9 bad hitting innings and by Mo's dislike of seeing the mound in tie games.

Melky + IPK +PKH for Johan Santana. Hmm, you coulda talked me into it.

2008-07-02 06:52:01
29.   Bama Yankee
3 is your friend. ;-)
2008-07-02 06:52:36
30.   Felix Heredia
Girardi has genrally played by the book and doesn't have too much to show for it. Perhaps by letting Melky hit he was showing some faith in him in the hopes that Melky might get a hit that shakes off his slump and helps ignites the offense. This is what Girardi was lauded for in Florida - encouraging young players to suceed. What did the Yankees have to lose - another game? One game doesn't matter if they can't liven up and get on a consistent roll.

Girardi may also have been giving Melky a last chance to see whether he's really the Yankees' centerfielder for the forseable future.

2008-07-02 06:56:35
31.   rbj
28 Only if Santana can hit.
2008-07-02 07:17:02
32.   Bama Yankee
I still can't believe we lost that game.
At least my boy David Robertson looked better than his last outing. How about Michael Kay shouting a big "Roll Tide!" after Robertson's first inning. I thought there was no way we were going to lose the game after that... but I guess Girardi did not get the memo. Don't get me started on the "no bunt" issue. If he thought Melky could not get the bunt down in that situation, then go with Jeter (or use A-Gon as a pinch hitter instead of pinch, make that "pinch stander"). However, Melky's lack of bunting skill should not be an excuse. Have him work on bunting everyday until he gets it down (get him a bunting tutor if he needs it). Maybe Melky needs one of those Cano "days off" (aka benching) that Girardi used earlier this year.
2008-07-02 07:29:14
33.   horace-clarke-era
I actually accept the idea, and have argued it here, that you manage for 162 games and sometimes longer range issues trump immediate 'best strategy' especially if the strategy does have a downside (bunting an out away). But in this case my sense is and was at the time that the vote of confidence was more likely to be a confidence-crusher. Also, Melky, over and above the slump, is much weaker vs lefties (.192 this year). This felt like sending a soldier over the top at the Somme. (The Yankees will remember you with honor, Private Cabrera!)

Abother query: can he now be benched tonight, or is that too much like yanking a player off the field mid-game (Billy did that to Reggie and it started a fistfight in the dugout). How much 'confidence' does it show if the guy's yanked after messing up one at-bat's vote of confidence.?

I actually feel badly for the Melkster today. He was handed a bad, bad order. People slump, this is a long one, managing for 'the long haul' is partly a case of the art of the possible. Laying a bunt down on orders, getting the high-fives for it lets a kid feel he's contributed.

Is he that bad a bunter? I confess I missed that little stat. If so then yes, a middling hitter at bottom of order MUST be taught how to bunt. Period.

2008-07-02 07:54:45
34.   JL25and3
30 Jeez, how much of a chance does he get? I mean, I really want to like the kid, but he's been terrible beyond belief, and he just keeps getting worse.
2008-07-02 07:55:11
35.   tommyl
33 Yes, he's a bad bunter. They're still trying to teach him to not belly flop into first base. Once they teach him that they can move on to bunting.

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