Baseball Toaster was unplugged on February 4, 2009.
"Listen, I loved the way our guys reacted," [Ray's manager, Joe] Maddon said. "I thought it was tremendous. The unity that was displayed, it's part of us growing as a group. Unfortunately, we did not win the game, but I do like the fact that our guys did defend one another. I think that's great and speaks well for us. I'm very pleased with every one of them."
(Tampa Bay Online)
I caught the end of the Sox-Rays game the other night just in time to see Coco Crisp's hard slide into second base and the ensuing reaction from the Rays. Last night, I saw the full highlights from the Shields-Crisp/Rays vs. Crisp fight. It wasn't really all that as far as fights go. Shields plunked Crisp, Crisp charged the mound, Shields threw a haymaker and missed, Crisp landed a soft jab, and then Crisp was tackled. The Rays played dogpile on the rabbit but it didn't look as if anyone got any real shots in (Gomes looked as if he was, but that wasn't really the case), just a lot of poking and scratching like you see in football. After the game, a defiant Crisp talked about how the Rays fight like "girls."
Later, Manny and Youk got into it a little something in the Sox dugout. Oh, and the bottom line: the Red Sox pounded the Rays. Swept them out of first place. I think Crisp comes off looking like a punk. Then again, if I was waiting for a full day for someone to plunk me, perhaps I'd charge the mound as well. The Manny-Youk thing is really a non-story. I'm sure this kind of thing happens all the time, just not in the dugout. Hell, the great Yankee teams of the late 70s were built on that kind of creative tension. I sure don't see it impacting Youk or Manny on the field.
The Rays are a work in progress. The Sox are World Champs. 'Nuff said.
There hasn't been as much fighting in recent years. Remember, the 98 Yanks had a few, including that famous one against the Orioles. The 86 Mets had more than a few. Oh, and one last thing on the punch Shields threw at Crisp. It reminded me of the roundhouse that Dave Winfield once threw, and landed, on Nolan Ryan. Remember that one?
Far be it from me to defend a Red Sox, but in the previous game, Crisp was absolutely right about how the Rays cover 2B. Iwamura does it all the time and now Harris seems to be employing the practice of blocking the base with their leg. This can be very dangerous for runners (broken fingers and sprained ankles), so I don't blame Crisp for his ire, nor for going in very hard in his next slide attempt.
Also, Shields explicity stated that he threw at Crisp in the post game, which continues the Rays macho crusade from the spring (and puts the Shelley slide into a new perspective for me). In any event, if Joba/Hawkins/Farnsworth can all get slapped for allegedly throwing at batters they didn't even hit, then I would hope Sheilds gets a suspension long enough to last two starts.
http://tinyurl.com/5cnv4p
Shields probably should get a suspension for intentionally throwing at a batter, but I give him full credit for doing in the 'right way', so Crisp wasn't going to get hurt by it.
Coco is a fool. He's likely hurt his team badly. Any chance Epstein goes to get Bonds now to DH???
That said, the Rays are indeed proving themselves to be the most cocked up bunch of assholes in the game. I truly hope they get their comeuppance, and don't care who delivers it. Weird how I hate them so much.
By the way, the best fight of all time is not on that video - Pedro vs. Zimmer :)
Crisp didn't slide with his spikes up, but he gave Iwamura a forearm as he came up. That's definitely not legal.
I certainly don't defend Maddon, Josh, but what Crisp did was just foolish. He planned to charge the mound.
Yeah, I can't really argue with that. I didn't hear his post-game comments, but I think in his mind he'd evened things up the day before, so things were uneven again when he got plunked. Not saying that line of thinking is right, but I don't know if I would have been able to do any differently either, though I'd hope I would have had the presence of mind to charge Maddon, not his "errand boy" (to quote Col. Kurtz).
Also, Coco's dad was a boxer, so maybe it's just in his blood to want to mix it up a little.
15 Blocking the base without the ball should be enforced, but then again, so should the strike below the letters.
I guess we just disagree on Crisp's slide...I don't think he gave Iwamura a "forearm". Most runners who slide hard wind up popping up quickly and then using their forearm to prevent their face from slamming into the runner. I don't think Crisp was intending to deliver a shiver (Arod slides like this all the time).
Finally, Crisp may have planned to charge the mound, but that's because Shields and the Rays planned to hit him with a pitch. Two wrongs dont make a right, but in this case, the Rays were the instigators both times. Crisp is just guilty of not being able to turn the other cheek.
18 That's good news...Shields' admission definitely warrants a stiffer fine. Gomes also needs a serious suspension he seems to relish the role of being an enforcer (see the ST game against the Yankees).
With all the injuries and suspensions coming to both teams, it BEHOOVES the Yankees to take advantage of an easy schedule and good behavior to get back into the race.
And intentionally plunking someone, I don't like it but (a) practically every ML pitcher does it, and (b) Shields threw at Crisp's leg, not to hurt him. Charging the mound is a whole different thing.
Crisp makes his living with his legs...a broken knee cap and his career is probably over. I don't really see the distinction. Shields purposely used the ball as a weapon, so I have no problem with Crisp planning on using his fists. At least Shields could protect himself. It is hard to fend of a major league fastball thrown right at you.
A broken kneecap is very painful but it wouldn't end Crisp's career. Jeff Keppinger is on the DL right now with that injury -- I bet you he's back before the All Star break. And I've never heard of a guy's getting his patella broken by a pitch, either. Beanball etiquette says you plunk a guy in the quads or the butt to show you mean business but aren't trying to injure him.
But no. He charged the mound, having clearly planned on doing so.
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