Granted it's probably mostly the fault of the endless amounts of listeners who seemingly ALL have to chime in.

Let it die, people!!!

If I were Joba, I would have felt a little dopey celebrating after the guy took me deep a few nights before. Maybe after I had struck him out a few more times in a row. But the two guys were essentially even after the K.

Finally, when you look at the headbutting, and grabassing in the NFL after someone breaks up a pass, even if their team is down 10 in the 4th quarter, MLB is totally tame.

Everyone will have their own continuum here. I disliked Joba's gesture for exactly the reason you suggested: it was too personal, not team situation. It was Joba and Dastardly Dellucci. BUT, I'd cut the kid a ton of slack for a one-timer after his first major system shock, blowing it that badly (I don't count the midges, myself, and it just occurred to me, this may also be a Joba/Cleveland thing, not just Dastardly David!)

But I happen to like the end-of-game twirl the kidlets bring. Is it so differently than the Stargell Pirates doing their elaborate salutes? Yeah, Melky gets higher. But this is an in-team schtick after the game, not an in-the-other-team's-face gesture (like a mound fist-pump is, or a preening home run trot, or languishing delay to enjoy every millisecond of a hr flight).

I actually found it USEFUL to watch Melky and Robbie jump-sandwiching Alex Rodriguez in the dugout after a bomb (in the dugout, note) ... I think it loosened A Rod, gave him an elder statesman feeling with acolytes, and it also loosened an entire team that had begun to suffer from pinstripe-itis, routinely checking into the office, old pros, not enough zest and laughter.

So I'd personally put the one-time (I hope) Joba thing on one side and Melky's twirls on the other while obviously aware that others might scale these differently.

I think Ed Valentine is right and wrong (sort of like william tends to be! :) ) Yes, it is a different culture, no it is not about 'having fun' in the game for the first time ... it is more about trash talk culture and gestures spilling from basketball and football towards baseball. These kids are part of that culture, see the in-your-face, can't-stop-me stuff and want to get in that game, too. You can call it 'fun' but that means you didn't think Ernie Banks ("Let's play two!") was having fun, and I think that's just dumb.

Manny is NOT having more 'fun' homering than Hank Aaron was, I daresay. Though I am aware it is reckless action to even TRY to offer a thought about what Manny thinks, if Manny indeed thinks thoughts.

but since this is specifically about joba - there are two points in particular i would like to comment on:
1. "My problem with Chamerlain letting loose after he retired Dellucci was that it seemed to be all about Joba getting revenge for the home run Dellucci hit off him a few nights earlier. In other words, it was selfish, and had nothing to do with the game situation."

to me, although baseball is a "team game" it really isn't. when Joba gave up the hr to Delluci - that was also about him. He blew it - he messed that up - by and large that was on him. the next night (or the following night) when he came in and got Delluci - it was about him - he got the guy out on a K - so again it was pretty much on him. yes, he probably made a bigger deal of it than it warranted, but again to me, I think it is good to see him in man up or take the challenge in these situations - he knows when he f'd up and he accepts that and he knows when he did his job and he is happy that he did so.

2. "That's just not the Yankee way, what Joba did. Let everyone else do that stuff, but not a Yankee,"

obviously with all of us being yankee fans there is a part of the tradition, mystique, etc that we all appreciate. i am not sure this sentiment is something i fully believe in to the extent that goose is taking it too. what exactly is the yankee way - who is the arbiter - and so on?

I think Jeter follows in an image way upon people like Dimaggio (and that was ALL about image, too!) and I agree that Torre played a big role for the current generation ... Billy Martin's Yankee Zoo was a very different thing.

Anyone know about the hotel lobby dress code, the hair length, beard stuff ... was it Steinbrenner who (re)instated it - shaping a difference between Yankees and 'the other bums'?

The problem that I have with people citing the Yankee way is that it is very selective. Was Babe Ruth's antics the Yankee way? Or is Lou Gehrig the Yankee way? How about Joe. D? Then again, maybe it was Mantle? Is if Jeter and Mo? Maybe, but what about O'Neill or Joba and Melky?

In other words, there is no one Yankee way. Aside from consistently having a good team, there hasn't been a hallmark behavior. Claiming that Melky's glee after a HR and Joba's occassional fist pump are un-Yankee like is absurd. It's especially odd to have Goose and White come out and say it when their 1970s teams didn't exactly win medals for good behavior.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyCksO5mktQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSxFl3le25o

But Melky?

How in the hell can Melky bother anyone is beyond me.

He's so bubbly, so good natured that the worst one could say about him is that he's kind of doofy. It's endearing. How he, of all people in baseball, could engender resentment or disapproval really just baffles me.