Last night's offensive performance, or lack thereof, was one I could actually live with. Lee is a hot lefty and the current lineup simply isn't going to hit those. If they struggle against Byrd again, well, then I think we all need to lower our expectations considerably.

I wonder how long it's gonna take to call up Bonds' agent.

Moose looks real good man.

Well I see our offense still thinks Cliff Lee is on the mound. Guys, its Paul Byrd, without HGH.

tommyl, true, but Abreu hit that ball on the screws, just right at Grady. They'll catch up to Byrd...I hope.

5 Sorry Alex, I'm just looking at Gameday at work, so all I saw was that he had lined out.

Good thing the Yankees didn't ship Matsui away this offseason.

17 game hit streak for Gojira.

Giambi is awful.

9 I am not sure how Bonds would fare, but I know he wouldn't pop up Byrd to the opposite field.

Yeah, but we all know the Bonds thing has NOTHING to do with how he'd actually do on the field. Yeah, the worst part of the Giambi pop up was that it looked like a hittable pitch. Easy for me to say, I know, but still...Is it just me, or has Matsui been terrific at taking the outside pitch to left field this year?

11 hasn't matsui always been good at that?

mussina slowing down his changeup has made him so much better.

I think you are right, but not always...remember when Matsui was dubbed "Groundzilla" in his first year with the Yanks for rolling those outside pitches over and weakly tapping out to second base? Seems like a sure tell for a lefty that they are in a good streak when they can take it to left well.

i'm sure he rolled over outside pitches and grounded to 2nd a lot, but i'm sure a lot of his double plays were hard hit balls and/or groundouts to the left side. he took a little time to adjust to pitching here but i remember him always going to right and left.

Yeah, I've noticed Matsui doing this better this year too.

His first couple of years he was good at it and then he got away from that a little, maybe 'cause of injury?

He's looking sharp this year, which is a joy.

I'll take a guy who hits 20 homers and sprays the ball around any day of the week.

BTW, I love that gameday thinks Moose's fastball is a changeup.

13 Remember? I still call him that in my head every time he hits it right to 2B.

Nice, Damon.

Little pop fly job.

16 Ha ha ah ah !

his first at-bat was a single to left

giambi .... rob deer ....

Ah, the power of negative reinforcement...way to go Giambi.

freaking Casey Blake, I refuse to accept the he is somehow some great hitter with RISP. Well, that lead was nice while it lasted.

This is the Yankee season...Blake is looking to go opposite field, so Mussina gives him the perfect pitch. Then the Yankees have an easy out at the plate, and they botch that too.

It's hard to say, but the 2008 Yankees aren't very good.

Mussina giving up another lead the inning after his team scores for him. Well done Moose. Well done.

25 And chances are, we probably blew our offensive wad for the day against Byrd last inning...

this is beginning to have a Stump Merrill feel to it ....

27 The game or the season?

28

season ...

(btw, didn't realize Jeter had neither a SB or HR to this point in season)

29 And 4 walks...the Captain hasn't been very productive this season.

I'm sorry, my internet must be broken - Yahoo says Cano 'doubled to right'

How will the Yankees NOT score Robbie from third and 1 out...

Girardi has to squeeze here.

32 If you guessed, grounder to short, you'd be right.

Wow...Girardi makes Joe Torre look like Don Zimmer.

What an awful job...this team reaches new depths each game.

9 I love when panic is shown up.

33 Or not.

My TV must be broken a 2-out hit with a runner in scoring position???

36 Yep...a pop fly off of Paul Byrd is definitely a sign that Giambi is ready to take off.

I'd throw that TV out if you see Jeter drive Damon in now...

36 ... over and over.

40 2-0 pitch and Jeter tries to pull an outside pitch. Instead of being patient and waiting on a pitch (like Blake did), Jeter is back to his hack attack.

39 And the usual straw in response.

Wow, its official. The Banter has become way too out of control panic and pessimism. 4 out of 5 comments devoted to pronunciations on just how bad X, Y, Z really is/are, all of which clearly indicates that the Yankees are a terrible horrible no good very bad team...

Thank god, we made it to the BP with a lead. Unless today's Mariano's day to blow up or something... yeesh.

44 Or, it could mean people are watching the game with their eyes open and seeing some very bad play. Take your pick.

william is there anything about this current team you like?

44 The Yankees are not a GOOD team right NOW. And there are reasons why.

I think the Yankees can be and will be a good to very good team this year, but the roster right now doesn't have it in them.

Hey, this looks like an interesting (albeit contentious) game thread!
But I won't be here long.

48 Exactly...if Hughes, Arod and Posada all return healthy and back to form...if they can find a stable 4th starter...if Cano wakes up.

They can still be a good team, but they aren't now and wont be until a lot of things change. There is nothing wrong with acknowledging that now.

I find it mildly annoying that we have four runs, and yet Byrd is on track to pitch eight innings.

47 I like Wang, Pettitte, Moose, most of the bullpen as well as the offensive development of Melky and the professionalism of Matsui. Sadly, that isn't enough right now to win more than 50% of their games.

51 It's alarming. As I mentioned before the game in 1 , not hitting Byrd would be a seriously bad sign.

This is a game the Yankees should win going away...instead, they are one pitch from another loss. That's how mediocre teams play.

Why is Joba at least warming up?

54 ISN'T

53 But they are hitting him. Batting .300, slugging .500.

56 They've hit into a couple of double plays and been swinging early in the count.

57 Yeah. And no walks. That's what I find annoying.

C'mon, Ohllie - one more. Stay aggressive.

56 An .800 OPS against Byrd isn't very good. That's pretty much in line with his career averages. If the Yankees aspire to be a league average team on offense, they wont win much.

Very nice job by Ohlendorf. Very nice.

Attaboy, Ross. Now a couple of real Joba innings and we chalk up the W...

62 Only need one from Joba and one from Mo.

What I'd like is a couple of insurance runs.

63 Insurance runs? You're insane!

For those who prefer uplifting thoughts, Cano has looked good today. He has been more patient ....as I type this, he goes deep again, so no need to point out the obvious.

Time to call the cable company.

Robbie Cano!!

65 Could the worm be turning?

66 ROFL!

Cano could easily be 3-3 today with two dingers and a double.

He hit that hard.

67 The Yankees desperately need Cano. With Arod still a week away at least, another bat would be welcomed. Still, Arod holds the key...I don't see how one can be optimistic until he returns. Arod is the straw who stirs the drink.

70 Totally agree. Also, Robbie has always tended to break out of a slump by going on a rampage. If is coming around and A-Rod comes back a week from today, and the Yankees are no more that 5-5.5 games out, then they'll be OK.

Bronx Bombers indeed. 4 dingers on the day.

So we've hit 4 HRs and we're up 6-3, with Moose decent, 'Dorf lights out and people are still being negative?

To be fair, we hadn't hit 4 HR's until about 6 minutes ago.

All fastballs from Joba. Need to put him away with a slider right here.

TV watchers - how is Joba looking today?

76 All fastballs, has missed his location a few times. Looks good, but not classic Joba.

Oh please just make Delucci look silly and you're redeemed, Joba... ;-)

76 Painted the outside corner twice on Dellucci has him 1-2. And puts him away on a slider and pumps his fist. That was CLASSIC Joba

74 And dorf wasn't lights out until 15 minutes ago. Being positive or negative isn't strictly about the results. The Yankees should be counted on to win today's game...the more important question is will they win the next three, six and nine?

80 Amen.

Maybe he needs that emotion, in which case, you have to live with it. But that K didn't warrant such a reaction. When Dellucci took him deep, he put his head down and ran around the bases, and that was a much bigger AB.

78 Happy?

82 I'd have to assume that was more of a personal reaction than a 'game situation' fist pump.

82 I know. I'm not fond of the histrionics, but everything I've seen from Joba suggests he's a really stand-up guy, not looking to show anyone up.

He seems to make an effort to turn his back when he pumps his fist, so that's something.

Anyway, I'd prefer he be more like Mo, obviously, but if that's what he needs to do to be successful, I'll take it.

84 I am sure it was, but man do I love the classic cool of Mariano. With Joba being so demonstrative, I can no longer kill Papelbon and Krod when they do it. No big deal...as long as his teammates support it.

Jeter is all screwed up...I wonder if Long can approach him, or does he have to wait for Jeter to come to him.

85 I've always seen it as a gut reaction that's over & done with pretty quick. Like a WR spiking the ball when he makes a TD.

Guys like K-Rod seem to want to put on a show, almost like one of Chad Johnson's end zone celebrations...

88 I think Krod's reaction is in the same class as Joba, although I do agree premeditated responses like Chad Johnson's are lame.

Pitch like that, and he could do the running man or the cabbage patch on the mound, for all I care :)

85 I hate it when hitters do the sky point too. If it's supposed to show how religious they are and thanking GOD for that great hit (as if GOD would care), how come you don't see priests/rabbis, etc. walking around all day pointing to the sky.

Hey, thanks for letting me give that awesome sermon (kiss the cross, point to the sky).

Hey, I was pretty good today during that bris (tip of the yarmulke, point to the sky).

I'm sure Mo is happy about that double play.

87 the problem is that you take pessimism way too far into small fluctuations. everything together is looking pretty bad, but jeter is definitely not all screwed up. he's still batting around .300, he's just swinging at too many pitches. i'm sure he'll be fine.

Game of inches, indeed.

Almost a gorgeously-executed hit and run.

Hideki's really got his bat control back and it's great to watch.

88 Same here. If you watch the replay, Joba pumps his fist and does a little turn, but settles down real quick - almost like he didn't know what he was doing and then caught himself.

91 Ha ha hah ah ah!

I actually like when they point to the sky, but only because every time they do, a little voice in my head goes, "You da Man, God!" and I start chuckling at the absurdity of it all.

Here's Mo.

96 Even when Tom Gordon did it with the Yanks it irked me.

Oh my God.

Did Flash just say "no walks" for Mo?

Not one?

Wow.

How sweet would it be for Mo to keep this ERA all season? (knock on wood)

93 Is everything critical pessimistic to you? Talk about taking things to extremes. Jeter is lunging badly at balls. He has abandoned a patient approach that has served him well (only 4 walks). If you don't think he is screwed up, we'll have to agree to disagree. Citing his .300 batting average just isn't very convincing.

abreu is really a terrible outfielder

101 What a pessimist!!

97 Man, good old Tom Gordon.

Seems like another lifetime.

Oh, him plus Rondell White and the rightfielder. What the hell was his name, the one who couldn't hit the slider.

Not Sierra...who the hell did we have in right back then?

Mondesi!

Oh, God, Mondesi.

You da man, Mo!

100 I think the thing is, you often take criticism to stifling levels. The way the team is playing right now, there's plenty to complain about, but if you send 5 posts over the span of 10 minutes, each stating the team's suckitude in different and detailed ways, and arguing about exactly how sucky they are, how can anyone possibly carry on a conversation? It's the opposite of banter - it's like being bludgeoned with negativity.

And 0.00 is intact for another game!

Nice job, Yankees.

We're treading water, people, things are looking good.

105 By the same token, I don't think "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all) works for a game thread. When the Yankees are playing like crap, I have no problem pointing it out. I guess that could be stifling, but I'd imagine the teams poor play does more to discourage comments than my willingness to point it out.

107 Yup, tread water while A-Rod &Posada are down and we're still trying to figure out the back end of the rotation. Once all the pieces get put in order, watch out.

100 if he had walked just 4 more times (since 4 is such a small number 4 more must not be that different, right?) he'd have a .365 obp, much closer to his career average, and you wouldn't be talking about how bad he's been. it's such a minor thing to be pessimistic about. abreu, on the other hand, has a history of terrible play near the wall.

108 Maybe you have to look at it this way:

If you were sitting next to someone, in person, at the game and every 1.5 minutes they had something 'critical' to say about the action on the field, would you enjoy the game or would you have to change your seat...?

:)

108 William, I'm all for criticism, but the thing is, the team just won 6-3, hit four homers, with good pitching all around and you are still acting like they played horribly.

109 To say nothing of Jason and Robby.

108 I don't think anyone's advocating a shiny happy people 100% positive all the time board. Just keep some perspective and realize that there's not really anywhere to go with an argument that consists of "Cano sucks right now," "no he doesn't" exchange back and forth for 10 minutes.

Btw, special tip of the hat to Hideki.

He's really stepped it up in that quiet way of his.

He's like his old self.

His body must be feeling good or something.

111 If they were pointing out legitimate concerns, I wouldn't mind at all. Of course, the spoken word is more intrusive, so the analogy doesn't work. I don't mind when others use their posts to cheerlead, so don't really feel like I need to put a positive filter on. When the Yankees play better, I'll be positive. Right now, the signs are decidely more negative.

110 It about more than the walk total...but yes, 4 more walks would be significant, so I wouldn't dismiss them.

Like I said, if you want to be critical of Abreu, go crazy. I am not trying to police your posts.

Just want to chime in with my two cents. I saw the Dellucci at bat. Joba completely man-handled him. It was, from a pitching standpoint, a thing of beauty, that was spoiled by Joba's emotional outburst. I realize that it is part of the game today, and I accept that, but even given that it's not my cup of tea, I think this was a selfish display. It was about JOBA, about him gaining some measure of revenge for the other night. This wasn't situational, big game vs the Sox, striking out Manny with the tying runners on. This was a three run lead and all about Chamberlain. I don't like it. Don't like it at all. Again, I realize he uses his emotions, and that's the kind of guy he is, but really, he could learn a thing or three from Mr. Rivera.

116 i don't think anyone is trying to police your posts either, but some of us don't think all your criticisms are legitimate

70 I'm uneasy about two left-vs.-lefty matchups in Detroit. They hit lefties and we don't.

I'll be at Comerica for Pettitte vs. Robertson. It will be my third time seeing Nate live:
1) Out-dueled Lieber 2-1 in 2004
2) Out-dueled by Wang 1-0 in 2005
3) Pounded by White Sox in 2006

Nice thing about Robertson pitching (especially against Lieber and Wang) is that that I could just about promise my wife that I would be home by 4. With Pettitte, I may half to bump it up to 4:15.

116 >> If they were pointing out legitimate concerns, I wouldn't mind at all. >>

For the entire game you'd be okay with it? You're a better man than I...

>> so the analogy doesn't work. >>

Well in some ways it's almost worse when reading critical thoughts on the screen – there's no inflection, no humorous tone, no wafting smell of hot sausage to ease the pain. ;-)

112 Uhmm no, I am not. I am responding directly to those who don't agree with being critical. I realize many people prefer to cheerlead, but I save my positive analysis for when its warranted. You are free to look on the bright side if you want though. I have no problem with that.

114 I've never said Cano sucks, so I don't quite get your point.

117 Well, yeah, but who couldn't learn a thing or two from Mr. Rivera?

111 Excellent analogy.

Well, that game, sort of a must win with the match-ups this weekend, was quite a nice afternoon (well morning here) distraction. Would love a lot more of that.

And Ohlendorf has looked pretty good these last three appearances.

120 If you consider 6 or 7 comments over the course of a 2:30 game, then we have different ideas about "entire" game.

You can also ignore the written word...if those who prefer to remain positive can't stomach a negative commentary, they can glance over the posts. I know I do that with many posts. I think that's a better apporach than complaining about someone having a different take than I do.

117 Or four or five.

124 While I'd love to debate this endlessly into the night, I've gotta run. I doubt it was only '6 or 7' though...

Good things happen when i miss a game I intend to watch >;)

Watching recaps, great bounce-back game, especially against a pitcher that the Yanks should by all rights beat with their eyes closed (but somehow don't). especially good that the offense was supplied by the guys that had been struggling the most. That's got to be a helluva confidence booster for the lineup in general, not to mention those three.

Hideki keeps doing it, too. Who wudda thought?

So glad Joba got Delucci the way he did, I don't mind the histrionics at all in that situation. He needed that. It's mild in comparison to some of the things we've seen from nameless others. He's not Mo, guys, he's Joba.

I only hope that the defense focuses from here on; for all of Robbie's struggles, he's been great with his glove, so it's a matter of time when his bat catches up for good. Bobby, on the other hand, might be a problem... not gonna bury him for missing that catch, but a RF without wall issues wouldn't have had a problem with that.

Molina deserves credit for the way he's calling games, provided the pitchers listen to him. I'd like to see his defense pick up a little, though his arm is nicer than we expected.

Welcome back Wilson. 'Nuff said.

And that's all I have to say about that... >;)

127 Oh yeah, good job, Moose. You deserve credit, too >;)

127 Oh, God, Robby's glove.

Did you see that play he made last night? Ranging towards the middle, stopping the ball and then making that easy motion, yet strong and true throw to first?

That was a thing of balletic beauty.

128 Mooooooooooossssse!!

126 As much as I enjoy being the center of attention, I can't control the debate. It ends easily when you don't question the legitimacy of other's opinions.

127 Yes, Molina, too! He's amazing.

We've got a lot to be enthusiastic about with this team.

Yay, a win!

The team isn't playing very well, and it's annoying, but ARod and Posada are HUGE losses. One has to temper expectations a bit with those guys out.

I hope Robbie Cano is ready to go nuclear on the league now.

131 people can question the legitimacy of others' opinions, as you often do.

117 He'll grow out of it, B. So many other teams have guys with "annoying" quirks that they generally get away with, yet it happens with a Yankee and he gets jumped on by everyone in and out of NY. I appreciate the fire he shows for his own teammates, something I think has been missing the past few years. That said, with Mo around, he'll channel that in time, given that the wins become more routine with him. I'm not worried >;)

People, people, people.
Theee Yankees win, Theeeeee Yankees win!

Let's just all enjoy the moment.

134 You can question the validity...not the legitimacy.

If you think the Yankees are playing well, go ahead and provide evidence supporting your point. Simply insisting one shouldn't be negative because it annoys you is another story.

If I ever question the legitimacy of someone's perspective, please point it out so I can offer an apology.

135 The key is how do his teammate feel. Ultimately, there are the only ones Joba should feel accountable to.

137 i don't know what the difference between validity and legitimacy is.

139 Legitimacy is compliance. An opinion that follows the BB rules and regs is legitimate. Validity is soundess. An opinion that can be supported with evidence or observation is valid.

If I say the Yankees can't hit lefties, that may be negative, but it's a valid point. If you say they can hit lefties and I reply that you have no idea what you are talking about and should keep to yourself, well, that's an illegitimate opinion.

It's probably semantics, but that's why I prefer to refute opinions I don't like with facts instead of how I feel about them.

So after 36 games the Yankees are 18-18, 9-9 at home 9-9 on the road, 5-5 over their last 10 games. Pretty mediocre but I guess it could be worse. Five teams in the AL have a better record. The team ERA is a horrible 4.23, but I guess that's not bad when you factor in that IPK and PH were both over 9.00. It would be really nice if they went on one big tear after A-rod returned. St Louis won a WS a few years back with the 12th best record in baseball so there is some reason for optimism. This doesn't sound like me (must be my new medications)

140 i understand your point but it's a fine line between the definitions you are actually using. no one is telling you that you are going against rules or anything like that. people disagree with your opinions, just as you disagree with others' opinions.

As for the 0 , I feel guilty at times for having grown up a mere 45 minutes from Cooperstown. I always try to make it for induction weekend, but it's nice being able to go any weekend I choose.

142 Actually, the "debate" seems to be your negative observations may be valid, but we don't want to hear them.

Hopefully, Arod will get healthy, Rasner will be stable and the team will play better so I can start pointing out the positive things the team is doing. This way, everyone will be happy, including myself.

141 The League ERA is 4.56, so I guess 4.23 isn't really 'horrible'.
By the way, Mo doesn't have an ERA+. (Baseball Reference says he has an infinite one.)

'Actually, the "debate" seems to be your negative observations may be valid'

Simply, conceitedly, absurdly false.

Hey, haven't had the time to go back through the entire thread but I think Williamnyy23 had it right when he said if you don't care for his take, just skim over his comment and go to the next one. Yes, I realize that williamnyy23 posts frequently, the guy is passionate and I think we can all appreciate that. Our only rule is that people don't get personal and vicious with each other, but otherwise, this forum is open for people to agree to disagree. So long as it is done with a degree of civility, Cliff, Ken and I are cool with differences of opinion. Again, if you don't like someone's take, try your best to ignore it.

Check out the following suggestion for the Reds.

http://tinyurl.com/18r

------
Have owner Bob Castellini ring Hank Steinbrenner and tell him you've got a way to move Joba Chamberlain into the Yankees' rotation. Offer Jared Burton, who's whiffing hitters in bunches, and Jeremy Affeldt for Phil Hughes. Sell Burton as Chamberlain's eighth-inning replacement and Affeldt as the situational lefty the Yanks lack. Throw in Arroyo if they want. Make it an owners deal. Castellini and Hank will love it; GM Brian Cashman will hate it. The bottom line is that Aaron Harang, Johnny Cueto, Edinson Vólquez and Hughes would give Cincy four very different looks.
-------

I won't say whose brilliant suggestion this is. You'll find it on ESPN.com. It's pretty much too stupid for anyone except...

149 Maybe they can add Mo Vaughn after that. I hear he's available ;)

147 Fair enough, and for the record William I wasn't attacking you. I was attempting to get you to see that its not all bad. Don't always look for the stormcloud ;).

I still can't get over this "have a catch" crap! The first time you said it (er..typed it) I told my wife (who's from New York). Her response was "that's right, have a catch". What the hell!?!? It's play catch. Play not have, play! Anyways, end rant. Way to go Yanks, way to go Cano. I'm off to have a Tetris.

PS If it matters I'm from rural Washington state.

151 Alex has a post on this somewhere in archives.

eh my apologies, it was a discussion in the comments to this post:

https://bronxbanter.baseballtoaster.com/archives/602468.html

151 "I'm off to have a Tetris"

LOL. That's a good one.

So if someone in New York says "I have a catch in my neck"... what do they mean?
;-)

153 I remember that. That's when I first heard it. I like this post from that page:

35. seamus
pavano shut em down!

I don't recall a pitcher by that name, but according to yankees.com he's still here...