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Done...but no Details
2007-12-13 08:18
by Alex Belth
Note: The Bronx Banter blog has moved to bronxbanterblog.com.

It's official. The Yankees announced this morning that they have signed Alex Rodriguez to a ten year contract. No specifics are available at this time. Word of the deal was first heard hours after the Barry Bonds fiasco went down, and now this, just hours before the release of the Mitchell Report. Man, the Yanks do move in mysterious ways sometimes. Then again, perhaps they anticipate having to deal with some unpleasentness later and want to have something encouraging to lean on.

It's now snowing in earnest in New York City. The leaks are starting to leak...Bombs to be dropped shortly.

Update:

Pete Abe has audio from Alex Rodiguez.

Another Update:

I have seen a list of the names from the Mitchell report from three different people (it's the same one that is listed in the comments section below). It could be complete baloney. We shall shortly see. But it's close to the one that Will Leitch just posted at Deadspin.

Again, an Update:

Over at SI.com, Jon Heyman reports that Clemens, Pettitte, Mike Stanton, Chuck Knoblauch, Miguel Tejada, Brian Roberts are named in the Mitchell Report. Also, heard from a reliable source that Albert Pujols is not in the report.

Comments (190)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-12-13 08:27:04
1.   RIYank
I predict they'll announce that he's waived all fees and will be playing for the pure joy of it.
2007-12-13 08:28:17
2.   weeping for brunnhilde
Ten years.

Whoa.

He'll be what, then, 43?

Damn.

Welcome aboard, Alex, and remember your headphones!

2007-12-13 08:28:33
3.   mehmattski
I took steroids for an ear infection once. I guess that means my GRE scores should have an asterisk.
2007-12-13 08:28:39
4.   weeping for brunnhilde
1 :)
2007-12-13 08:28:56
5.   Alex Belth
3, that is hilarious!
2007-12-13 08:29:00
6.   weeping for brunnhilde
3 ha ha ha haha !
2007-12-13 08:30:48
7.   JL25and3
3 Didn't anyone notice how big your ears got?
2007-12-13 08:31:37
8.   RIYank
3 Excellent. I'm going to steal that and modify it for personal use.
2007-12-13 08:32:15
9.   mehmattski
7 http://tinyurl.com/2vr9eq
2007-12-13 08:35:41
10.   yankz
Comment 38 on the RLYW thread is a supposed leaked list.
2007-12-13 08:35:51
11.   Yankee Fan In Boston
9 turturro (sp?) juiced for "the bronx is burning."
2007-12-13 08:36:31
12.   Raf
10 my coworker just sent me a list of names...
2007-12-13 08:40:28
13.   RIYank
10 12 Same list?

If that's right, we get off pretty easy.
Clemens, Pettitte, Giambi, Damon, and Farns.
Well, the first three are no surprise, for different reasons. Damon scorches the Sox as much as the Yanks. And Farns, whatev.

2007-12-13 08:41:18
14.   RIYank
Neifi Perez.
Hmmmm.
2007-12-13 08:42:24
15.   mehmattski
Isn't Juan Gonzalez listed twice on the list? And I think that I probably came up with quite a few of them in the previous thread. It's a bunch of names we already knew, plus maybe a few surprises (Pujols?).

And given that the report is supposedly a thousand pages long, it will be a week before anyone figures out the "evidence" leading to a player being on the list. Which, unfortunately, is more than enough time for someone's reputation to be irreversibly damaged. And that's the greatest shame out of all of this.

2007-12-13 08:43:19
16.   mehmattski
14 Also not a surprise, since he's been suspended for failing two drug tests, one this year.
2007-12-13 08:44:14
17.   mehmattski
Farnsworth wouldn't be a surprise either, given this:

http://reid.mlblogs.com/scoreboard_26_6/images/lg_fight_ap.jpg

2007-12-13 08:46:24
18.   JoeInRI
Quite a few Sawx names on there . . .
2007-12-13 08:46:32
19.   RIYank
16 I know, it's just that....
What does 'performance' mean? Or maybe it's 'enhancing' that I'm having trouble with.

Agree entirely on 15 .

2007-12-13 08:47:15
20.   pistolpete
Where's this list everyone's looking at?
2007-12-13 08:47:24
21.   wsporter
7 Yeah, but his ear lobes got really small.

There's only one name I couldn't live with on that list and I wont even mention it in this context.

2007-12-13 08:47:56
22.   Raf
13 Could be; the list he IM'ed me was as follows

Mark Prior, Neifi Perez, Rafael Palmiero, Albert Pujols, Brian Roberts, Juan Rincon, John Rocker, Pudge Rodriguez, Sammy Sosa, Scott Schoenweiis, David Segui, Alex Sanchez, Gary Sheffield, Miguel Tejada, Julian Tavarez, Fernando Tatis, Maurice Vaughn, IJason Varitek, Ismael Valdez, Matt Williams and Kerry Wood, Brady Anderson, Manny Alexander, Rick Ankiel, Jeff Bagwell, Barry Bonds, Aaron Boone, Rafaeil Bettancourt, Bret Boone, Milton Bradley, David Bell, Dante Bichette, Albert Belle, Paul Byrd, Wil Cordero, Ken Caminiti, Mike Cameron, Ramon Castro, Jose and Ozzie Canseco, Roger Clemens, Paxton Crawford, Wilson Delgado, Lenny Dykstra, Johnny Damon, Carl Everett, Kyle Farnsoworth, Ryan Franklin, Troy Glaus, Rich Garces, Jason Grimsley, Troy Glaus, Juan Gonzalez, Eric Gagne, Nomar Garciaparra, Jason Giambi, Jeremy Giambi, Jose Guillen, Jay Gibbons, Juan Gonzalez, Clay Hensley, Jerry Hairston, Felix Heredia, Jr., Darren Holmes, Wally Joyner, Darryl Kile, Matt Lawton, Raul Mondesi, Mark McGwire, Guillermo Mota, Robert Machado, Damian Moss, Abraham Nunez, Trot Nixon, Jose Offerman, Andy Pettitte

2007-12-13 08:47:56
23.   RIYank
18 There are, yeah. Esp. if you include the guys who have been on the Sox recently.

The snow has just begun here. Beautiful. I'll be heading home soon!

2007-12-13 08:49:09
24.   RIYank
22 Hard to tell, since they're in a different order, but it looks like the same list.

Wow, I really do have to get going...

2007-12-13 08:49:13
25.   Yankee Fan In Boston
21 "his ear lobes got really small"

brilliance.

2007-12-13 08:50:35
26.   pistolpete
22 Oh no, Rich Garces?

Is he now called, "El HGHuapo?"

2007-12-13 08:51:46
27.   Eric Stephen
The details:

2008: $29m ($27m salary + $2m bonus)
2009: $33m ($32m salary + $1m bonus)
2010: $33m ($32m salary + $1m bonus)
2011: $32m ($31m salary + $1m bonus)
2012: $30m ($29m salary + $1m bonus)
2013: $29m ($28m salary + $1m bonus)
2014: $28m ($25m salary + $3m bonus)
2015: $21m
2016: $20m
2017: $20m

Total: 10 yrs, $275m

Plus bonuses of $6m for each of HR 660, 714, 755, Bonds (currently 762), Bonds + 1 (763).

http://tinyurl.com/3awybk

2007-12-13 08:51:48
28.   yankz
Raul Mondesi? IS THERE NOTHING SACRED
2007-12-13 08:52:09
29.   dianagramr
21

and his partner therefore was never satisfied when she talked to him?

2007-12-13 08:53:39
30.   mehmattski
To speculate only slightly more than those who composed this list in the first place, I'm guessing one of the Juan Gonzalezes is supposed to be Luis Gonzalez, who was named in the Grimsley statement.

"Kyle Farnsoworth" That's great.

The great legacy of Ishmael Valdez has been ruined!

2007-12-13 08:54:32
31.   yankz
From some asshat at MLBTR: "I hope the MFY go 0-162 for the next decade"

So, they just punt nine years or something?

2007-12-13 08:55:42
32.   JoeInRI
. . No Bernie!!!
2007-12-13 08:55:54
33.   wsporter
Andy and Tek are bummers, that's depressing. Can't believe Wally World made the cut though; way to go dude!
2007-12-13 08:56:57
34.   JoeInRI
30 There were two Troy Glaus' on RLYW's list too
2007-12-13 08:57:18
35.   mehmattski
One of the known side effects of steroids is unchecked aggression, including failure to remove a face mask when fighting.
2007-12-13 08:57:47
36.   dianagramr
22

Brady Anderson .... what a shock!

2007-12-13 08:58:21
37.   standuptriple
Damn you, Run Fairy!
2007-12-13 08:59:29
38.   pistolpete
You know who I'm shocked isn't on there? Pudge Rodriguez - remember how much he slimmed down before going to the Tigers?

Damon kinda bums me out and so does Andy, but I'm not really shocked seeing as how much he was hanging around the Rocket.

"Rocket Fuel" is the headline in tomorrow's Post. I bet money on it.

2007-12-13 08:59:51
39.   mehmattski
34 Perhaps it's Troy Percival, or Troy Tulowitski?
2007-12-13 09:00:40
40.   yankz
38 Damon doesn't bum me too much. I haven't forgotten game 7.

All in all, I think that if that list is accurate, it could have been a lot worse.

2007-12-13 09:00:47
41.   mehmattski
38 Don't forget Damon was in Oakland too, with both Giambis in 2001.
2007-12-13 09:01:45
42.   rsmith51
If Tek is on the list, is he no longer the captain???
2007-12-13 09:01:52
43.   dianagramr
39

or .... Troy McClure ...

"You may know me from such teams as the 2004 Boston Red Sox"

2007-12-13 09:01:54
44.   Yankee Fan In Boston
38 i read the list three times looking for his name. that can't be the full list.

eckstein and his GEDs are on their way to toronto for one year.

2007-12-13 09:02:29
45.   Shaun P
Where's the beef? Err . . . the corroborating evidence? This is going to be a huge mess. I wonder if Don Fehr's head will explode.
2007-12-13 09:03:07
46.   JoeInRI
39 Beautiful . . .
2007-12-13 09:03:36
47.   mehmattski
43 According to BR.com, Adam Dunn's middle name is Troy. And his nickname is... Big Donkey?

You know who I bet's on steroids? Guisseppe Franco.

2007-12-13 09:03:52
48.   dianagramr
41

Given the type of recent injury history, I'm not THAT surprised by Damon possibly being on that list.

2007-12-13 09:03:54
49.   JoeInRI
Sorry, I meant 43
2007-12-13 09:05:33
50.   pistolpete
44 Here's one I found:

http://tinyurl.com/2gjt74

Pudge is on that one.

I don't think anyone has the right to spout off about this list at all. Every team basically gets killed here.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-12-13 09:06:28
51.   pistolpete
"Maurice Vaughn" - had to stop on that one for a couple seconds...
2007-12-13 09:08:21
52.   JoeInRI
Can't believe Juan Pierre's not on the list . . .
2007-12-13 09:08:30
53.   mehmattski
Of course, there's also new Yankees pitcher La*Troy* Hawkins...
2007-12-13 09:08:47
54.   williamnyy23
50 Newschannel 4's Jonathan Dienst has obtained names of baseball players expected to be on George Mitchell's list of players linked to performance enhancing drugs in major league baseball. Baseball officials are refuting several names on the list.

A high-ranking MLB official said there are several errors in the list provided to WNBC.com by two sources. Original sources are standing by the preliminary list provided to WNBC.com. Therefore, we working to clarify the list at this time.

2007-12-13 09:08:58
55.   standuptriple
They couldn't leave Daryl Kile off could they? Somebody should tell Sen. Mitchell that he's no longer with us and dragging his name out does nothing for the report.
2007-12-13 09:09:33
56.   yankz
44 Might as well crown them champions right now.
2007-12-13 09:10:49
57.   Bob B
No Red Sox except Damon on the list? How can that be? Big Papi wasn't so big when he was with the Twins and didn't hit that many homers either. Brady Anderson.Hah. He was Cal's big Pal and everyone knew those 52 Home Runs were from the Steroids. What's so weird is I assumed certain guys were doing Steroids but It never bothered me since there was no policy against it in MLB. Pudge is on the list BTW.
2007-12-13 09:11:24
58.   JoeInRI
ESPN First Take has a graphic saying Prominent Yankees Named as one of the key points of the report.

Incredible.

2007-12-13 09:11:30
59.   dianagramr
55

Well .... isn't there a connection between PEDs abuse and heart disease? I mean I know he died from drugs, but if PEDs had compromised his heart to begin with ...

2007-12-13 09:11:42
60.   yankz
I can't believe the Astros traded for Tejada a day before this bomb dropped.
2007-12-13 09:11:46
61.   williamnyy23
If these circulated lists are correct, man does Arod coming out smelling like a rose. Not only does he ink a $275mn deal, but he escapes being tainted along with several other high profile sluggers. Knowing Arod, something embarrasing has to happen...I think he'll be found guilty of shredding those CIA tapes.
2007-12-13 09:12:53
62.   JoeInRI
57 Nomar, Nixon, Varitek, Garces, Vaughn are all on the list.
2007-12-13 09:13:36
63.   rsmith51
57 List I saw has Varitek and Trot Nixon.
2007-12-13 09:13:57
64.   yankz
57 Varitek + Damon? That's huge for the cursebreaker year.
2007-12-13 09:13:58
65.   pistolpete
61 My guess is someone in the Yankees FO got a peek at the list as well, pulled the trigger on the A-Rod announcement.

Puts Alex in a better light in comparison to all this ugly stuff coming out today...

2007-12-13 09:14:44
66.   williamnyy23
57 Nixon, Nomar and Varitek are also rumored to be on the list, as well as secondary type guys liek Manny Alexander and Rich Garces. The Sox definitely don't get off easy on this one.
2007-12-13 09:15:19
67.   yankz
I love this idea from the BTF thread:

"we should flood the blogosphere with totally random bogus lists, right at 1:00 :)
It would take the media a good 6 hours till they caught up .."

2007-12-13 09:15:56
68.   williamnyy23
65 I also think they didn't want the Arod Press Conference being about the Yankees on the list.

The Pettitte press conference is more curious because it seems designed to shield him from questions.

2007-12-13 09:15:58
69.   JoeInRI
Is Clemens as big a deal as Bonds?
2007-12-13 09:17:48
70.   rbj
When I first saw the deadspin list, I saw Manny Alexander. For a second I thought it was the other Manny.

Oh well.

2007-12-13 09:17:59
71.   yankz
69 I think so. As I posted on the last thread, I can easily see Mitchell going after Clemens specifically. Who's the one guy in baseball who, if brought down, would put all the racism claims to rest? Rocket.
2007-12-13 09:18:38
72.   dianagramr
I hear its actually Kellen Clemens named in the report ...
2007-12-13 09:18:47
73.   JL25and3
26 I hear Garces weighed 165 before he started juicing.
2007-12-13 09:19:33
74.   dianagramr
Nomar would be no big surprise, given the types of injuries he has sustained ...
2007-12-13 09:20:17
75.   dianagramr
73

you mean 165 kilograms, right? :-P

2007-12-13 09:25:29
76.   williamnyy23
69 On a scale of baseball prominence...absolutely. It all comes down to what evidence backs up the claim. If it is only McNamee's word, then I am not sure if the stigma will be the same. Bonds, after all, has had a book and a federal case authored against him.
2007-12-13 09:28:42
77.   yankz
Somewhere, Ed Wade is looking for a reset button.
2007-12-13 09:30:29
78.   williamnyy23
Because Mitchell is relying on the source of the steroids, I think Latin America guys will escape discovery more easily because they often get the products in their home country (where, in some, it is available OTC).
2007-12-13 09:31:00
79.   JL25and3
77 If Ed Wade didn't see this coming, he's even more of an idiot than I thought.
2007-12-13 09:35:11
80.   Sliced Bread
No Bernie, correct?
I can now resume not giving a shit about this list.
2007-12-13 09:39:11
81.   standuptriple
65 Upstaging Boras again? If that was the intention, I love it. Telegram for Scotty: You and the people you represent are not bigger than the game. Stop.
2007-12-13 09:39:36
82.   yankz
Pete: "Rodriguez said that he didn't fire Boras because this will be his last contract. But he claimed only to have spoken to him once since and that the agent was not involved in negotiating his return to the Yankees.

To me, it sounded like a son finally standing up to his controlling father. The soap opera continues."

Alex updated this post to include a link to audio.

2007-12-13 09:44:43
83.   yankz
That list is B.S. No Ivan Drago? I mean, I saw a freaking video tape of it.
2007-12-13 09:46:09
84.   Alex Belth
I've heard from a credible source that Albert Pujols is NOT on the list. But add our man Chuck Knoblauch to it...
2007-12-13 09:46:17
85.   Flip Play
While this list may be inaccurate, I breathed a sigh of relief when I noticed that Bernie, O'Neill, Tino (the one I was most worried about), Coney, and Brosius weren't on.

Of course, the first thing I did was check for Jeter -- twice.

2007-12-13 09:47:05
86.   standuptriple
84 Maybe Knoblauch was aiming for the list but he ended up in the 1st base seats?
2007-12-13 09:48:24
87.   yankz
85 Same. HUGE sigh of relief.

84 Warning: Steroids may reduce ability to throw a ball 90 feet.

2007-12-13 09:50:11
88.   dianagramr
86

kudos!

2007-12-13 09:50:21
89.   joe in boston
WBZ (Boston Radio) just had a sports report - of course they only mentioned Clemens and Pettite - no mention of Varitek, Nomar, etc.
Par for the course up here in (snowy) RSN.....
2007-12-13 09:51:04
90.   williamnyy23
84 There has been a lot of backtracking with these lists...it might make sense to just wait.

Damn that Arod!! First he upstages the World Series and now the Mitchell Report. What a media hog!!

2007-12-13 09:51:41
91.   weeping for brunnhilde
86 :)

Dear old Chuck.

2007-12-13 09:52:39
92.   weeping for brunnhilde
80 Andy doesn't concern you?
2007-12-13 09:53:13
93.   mehmattski
55 Caminiti is no longer with us either. And considering both young deaths were probably the result of years of doping, I think it's entirely appropriate to include them on the list.
2007-12-13 09:53:26
94.   weeping for brunnhilde
83 Ivan Drago.

You're insane, yankz.

How 'bout Clubber Lang?

2007-12-13 09:53:59
95.   weeping for brunnhilde
90 Heh heh heh heh.
2007-12-13 09:54:36
96.   JL25and3
78 Good point.

As everyone's discussing this, I realize that the owners will wriggle away without consequence regardless of what Mitchell says. The focus is, and will be, entirely on the players named.

Each of them will be fined or suspended, their reputations tarnished or ruined, their meal ticket taken away in some cases, asterisks by their names (if only figuratively).

Deservedly so, perhaps. But meanwhile, some lip service will be paid to the role of "the owners," as a nameless group. They will suffer no individual or specific consequences. Undoubtedly, Selig will issue a statement about how they were wrong, but look how they changed things, all better now. Tomorrow morning none of them will be suffering.

That's not right. Without taking any responsibility away from the players, the owners implicitly - but very clearly - allowed, condoned or even encouraged steroid use. To change the rules a few years later and punish only the players for that is wrong, wrong, wrong.

2007-12-13 09:54:57
97.   dianagramr
92

If we presume that we kinda suspected that Rocket WAS juicing, and that he and Andy had become training buddies, its NOT that much of a leap to think that Andy may have been juicing also.

In this respect, I'm not surprised if he shows up on the list. Disappointed? Yes. Surprised? No.

2007-12-13 09:55:46
98.   yankz
94 Ooh, probably. He was definitely raging.

Guess that "Come home with a real man" comment he made to Adrian was probably a lie...

2007-12-13 09:57:17
99.   dianagramr
96

well said ....

perhaps some kind Congress subcommittee will enter the fray and demand that all clubs cut their ticket prices by 15% for the next decade to make it up to the fans.

(One can hope .... can't they?)

2007-12-13 09:58:26
100.   Sliced Bread
How did "Suzyn Waldman's emotions" not make the list?

Oh, I'm just tickled about Captain Cheapshot, and his unmitigated 'roid rage. Gear up, and shove yer angry little mitt in Mitchell's mug, Mr. Varitek.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-12-13 09:59:59
101.   dianagramr
Adam Everett was just signed by the Twins.

So I guess Wade is stuck with Tejada now. :-)

2007-12-13 10:01:38
102.   weeping for brunnhilde
98 Oh my God, you're even more insane than I thought: you actually remember dialog from that movie?

:)

2007-12-13 10:09:53
103.   wsporter
100 Re: Suzi

Nice work Slice!

2007-12-13 10:14:40
104.   mehmattski
A-Rod, on his conference call:

"I wouldn't have been surprised if Hank hung up on me when I called."

"It was a mistake. Number two, I felt I was a hundred percent sure from the information I was getting that the Yankees had zero interest in my services. As for the World Series, the announcement, that was handled very poorly... the whole thing was a huge debacle."

"The mistake I made is I should have called Hank and Hal from

"I've known Scott since I was sixteen... he talks to teams and I play baseball... but if someone from 645 would try and come give me hitting tips, I would have told them to go f-themselves. That's the last thing I wanted to do to his situation, but I realized our interests were... not aligned, that's when I had to call Hank and Hal."

"I was very angry about the whole situation... I voiced that to [Boras], the one time we spoke, I conveyed that message."

"The whole thing didn't feel right. I knew from taking to management, to Cash, to Gene, to Randy, that there was mutual interests and respect, and that the negotiations would be simple. So when I was getting that information [that the Yankees weren't interested], that was surprising, and upsetting."

"Once the season was over, I knew two things: I wanted to be a Yankee, and I wanted to negotiate exclusively with the Yankees."

2007-12-13 10:18:37
105.   rbj
104
Jeepers, lots of big names getting tainted, A-Rod playing the humility card. . . the whole steroid thing was a plot by Scott Boras to make Alex look good!

Waddya mean, "put down the bong"?

2007-12-13 10:18:50
106.   mehmattski
Bob Klaspich: "So given this misunderstanding, why is Scott Boras still representing you?"

Alex Rodriguez: "Well, to be honest, when this contract is over, I'll be 42. After that I'll be playing in a softball league with you. I don't need any agent."

2007-12-13 10:19:24
107.   Simone
Whatever, Alex.

96 The owners made sure that they escaped any direct blame by having one of their own conduct the investigation which smears the players without providing any substantial evidence against them. No wonder Mitchell took his kid to get autographs before publishing the report. I bet some of the Red Sox players wished they had written a "f' you" instead.

2007-12-13 10:20:07
108.   Sliced Bread
92 Oh, I'm plenty bummed about Andy. I'm bummed about the whole mess actually. But Varitek.. whoo boy... that's delightfully rich.
2007-12-13 10:22:31
109.   Sarasota
............I don't think Andy is a real surprise. But disappointment for sure.....
2007-12-13 10:25:53
110.   YankeeInMichigan
Don't get so excited. I'd say there's a 70% chance that the leaked list is a complete fabrication. Unfortunately, I am inclined to believe the Clemens/Pettitte rumor.
2007-12-13 10:27:31
111.   mehmattski
I do think it's clear that announcing the contract today is not a coincidence. Granted, it is the day after non-tender night, so the roster spots have finally opened. But, in the introduction to the press conference, the Yankees official makes it clear that A-Rod will not be answering any questions about the Mitchell report. So by announcing the contract, and having the conference call, before the Mitchell report is released, even if it's by a couple of hours, they avoid anyone having to ask any messy questions.
2007-12-13 10:30:51
112.   vockins
I'm calling BS on that leaked list. If the real list is 40 something people, half already known, I'm calling BS on that one, too.

40 something people since 1995? Come on, man.

2007-12-13 10:32:08
113.   yankz
Is that why Andy was so surprised to see his elbow heal fully?
2007-12-13 10:32:27
114.   wsporter
I'm still wondering what genius decided this "Mitchel Report" format was a good idea. Bud, Bud, Bud, Bud ... maybe we've been selling you short.

You wouldn't ask a used car dealer to investigate a rolled back odometer scandal would you? Oh wait ...

2007-12-13 10:33:44
115.   yankz
112 What are you expecting? The real list is supposed to have somewhere between 50 and 70 names.
2007-12-13 10:34:24
116.   vockins
113 I guess Pettite has different supplier than Prior and Wood.
2007-12-13 10:35:19
117.   vockins
115 For twelve years, double that, absolute minimum.
2007-12-13 10:36:43
118.   williamnyy23
117 This isn't a definitive list...it is only a group of players about whom Mitchell was able to compile circumstantial evidence.
2007-12-13 10:39:25
119.   mehmattski
118 Man, the standards for circumstantial evidence must be higher these days. I would assume one could connect nearly every player in baseball from 1985-present to some sort of PED. Maybe $20 million wasn't enough?
2007-12-13 10:44:36
120.   williamnyy23
119 I am not sure I get your point?
2007-12-13 10:44:49
121.   rbj
Man, gotta say that today is like the anti-Christmas, don't want to unwrap the Mitchell report.
2007-12-13 10:48:43
122.   mehmattski
120 I was just joking about the fact that the Mitchell report is a whole load of circumstantial evidence, and if they could only dig up circumstantial evidence for 50 players, then maybe they weren't looking hard enough. If they had hard evidence of 50 players, that would be surprising and shocking, but a big list of names, most of whom we already know, is a big ho-hum.
2007-12-13 10:49:04
123.   Sliced Bread
121 "he's makin' a list,and checkin' it twice. Gonna find out who's naughty or nice, Selig Claus is coming to town...

"he sees you when you're juicing...
he knows if you're a fake..."

oy, this is the worst anti-Christmas carol ever.

2007-12-13 10:50:06
124.   MetsSox
What a shock. Clemens who was already hated by most of the non-yankee world did steroids. Not shocking @ all. The same jackass that could've ended Piazza's career twice, the same piece of crap who's been honored as one of the best pitchers ever, has cheated. Shocker!!! Why would such a jerk do such a thing??? And, his good buddy Pettite. Another great guy...this is so depressing.
I find it very funny that the man who has retired a thousand times was given a huge contract last yr and SUCKED. What a waste there...HAH!
Lets all cry for Roger...boo hoo...he deserves as much crap as Bonds. Both are jerks and both cheated to get to the top. Clemens should and can go to hell.
2007-12-13 10:52:11
125.   williamnyy23
122 Gotcha...I thought that was it.
2007-12-13 10:53:04
126.   williamnyy23
123 Very nice!
2007-12-13 10:56:59
127.   williamnyy23
The real list is a lot different.
2007-12-13 10:57:40
128.   williamnyy23
Justice, Knoblauch and Ron Villoneon the list.
2007-12-13 10:59:43
129.   JoeInRI
Where are you see the real list?
2007-12-13 11:00:23
130.   JoeInRI
*seeing
2007-12-13 11:00:31
131.   williamnyy23
129 A reporter was reading it over the air on WFAN...it was a random read quickly pulling names from the document. He stopped abruptly once the conference started.
2007-12-13 11:01:51
132.   wsporter
122 Usually circumstantial evidence is viewed as far more reliable and useful than direct evidence. Circumstantial evidence needs to be closely knit so that you can walk you're way through connecting the dots.

The problem here is that they seem to be relying on direct evidence of sales from the club house minions that may or may not be reliable. This doesn't address the issue of whether these guys actually used the steroids. To show that without testing they need to employ circumstantial evidence. This may play well in a court room but not in the Court of Public Opinion which after all is where this cock-a-mami nonsense is designed to play.

2007-12-13 11:03:53
133.   JoeInRI
Mitchell is indicating his list is incomplete
2007-12-13 11:04:01
134.   Schteeve
I would be shocked beyond belief if Clemens wasn't on every PED known to man. Pettitte isn't surprising either. He famously was a disciple of Clemen's "training regimen."
2007-12-13 11:05:46
135.   wsporter
Oh hell I forgot, this is about the kids. Sorry, never mind.
2007-12-13 11:07:20
136.   dianagramr
Please lay some blame on Bud and the owners .... please please please.
2007-12-13 11:07:26
137.   rbj
Randy Velarde?! (p 137 of the Mitchell Report)

I don't believe nuthin' no more

2007-12-13 11:10:26
138.   JeremyM
137 Velarde is actually an old name.
2007-12-13 11:11:53
139.   Schteeve
124 Did that make you feel better?
2007-12-13 11:16:06
140.   Raf
129 A link to the report's posted @ the griddle
2007-12-13 11:16:54
141.   rsmith51
How convenient, no 2004 Red Sox...
2007-12-13 11:18:26
142.   dianagramr
141

... but an Eric Gagne sighting!

2007-12-13 11:19:28
143.   rbj
138 Tongue in cheek, but I remember from when he came up with the Yankees.

Now that there are big name pitchers & hitters out there, does that lessen the negativity around Bonds' accomplishment? How many juiced homers did he hit off of juiced pitchers?

2007-12-13 11:19:45
144.   mehmattski
Mitchell just recommended that no punishments be levied against anyone named in his report, "unless the Commissioner deems violations so damaging to the game of Major League Baseball."
2007-12-13 11:25:36
145.   mehmattski
"While the interest in names is understandable, I hope that the media, the fans, and major league baseball will take them in context, which is to the investigation of a greater pattern of steroid use that must be corrected."
2007-12-13 11:26:55
146.   JL25and3
144 He made it pretty clear that he doesn't think any of his findings reach that standard.

It's a good recommendation, especially since he makes it clear that the violations are well in the past and took place under very different rules. It gives the players a chance to make their mea culpas without having to take the brunt of it alone.

2007-12-13 11:28:37
147.   Raf
145 Yeah, good luck with that...
2007-12-13 11:28:55
148.   williamnyy23
Here is the best list I could cull fromt he report: no Red Sox and a lot of dregs.

Segui
Bigbie
Roberts
Cust
Laker
Manzanillo
Hundley
Carreon
Hal Morris
Matt Franco
Rondell White
Clemens
Pettitte
Knoblauch
Grimsley
Zaun
Justice
Santangelo
Glenallen Hill
Mo Vaughn
Neagle
Villone
Ryan Franklin
Chris Donnels
Todd Williams
Phil Hiatt
Todd Pratt
Kevin Young
Mike Lansing
Cody McKay
Kent Merker
Adam Piatt
Miguel Tejada
Jason Christiansen
Mike Stanton
Stephen Randolph
Jerry Hairston, Jr.
Paul Lo Duca
Adam Riggs
Bart Miadich
Fernando Vina
Kevin Brown
Eric Gagne
Mike Bell
Matt Herges
Gary Bennet, Jr.
Jim Parque
Brendan Donnelly
Chad Allen
Jeff Williams
Howie Clark
Nook Logan

2007-12-13 11:32:02
149.   rbj
If MLB tried to take action against most of those named, a lawsuit would get most of it knocked out as a lot of the evidence is hearsay. IMO.
2007-12-13 11:32:23
150.   williamnyy23
There is a lot of detail about Clemens. From what I can tell, it alleges he used used steroids half wway through the 1998 season. Stopped after being traded to the Yankees, but resumed half way through 2000. The third time McNamee stated Clemens used steroids was during August 2001. He stated that was the last time he was aware of his use and added Clemens did not use HGH.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-12-13 11:32:28
151.   markp
I'm shocked, shocked that there are no Red Sox on the list. (None that were juicing while on the team, anyway.)
2007-12-13 11:33:45
152.   wsporter
Maybe I'm missing it but I don't see McGuire listed.
2007-12-13 11:34:47
153.   williamnyy23
On Pettitte:

McNamee began serving as Pettitte's personal trainer and started assisting Pettitte in off-season workouts after the 1999 season. According to McNamee, during the 2001-02 offseason, Pettitte asked him about human growth hormone. McNamee said that he discouraged Pettitte from using human growth hormone at that time.

From April 21 to June 14, 2002, Pettitte was on the disabled list with elbow tendonitis. McNamee said that Pettitte called him while Pettitte was rehabilitating his elbow in Tampa, where the Yankees have a facility, and asked again about human growth hormone. Pettitte stated that he wanted to speed his recovery and help his team.

McNamee traveled to Tampa at Pettitte's request and spent about ten days
assisting Pettitte with his rehabilitation. McNamee recalled that he injected Pettitte with human growth hormone that McNamee obtained from Radomski on two to four occasions. Pettitte paid McNamee for the trip and his expenses; there was no separate payment for the human growth hormone.

According to McNamee, around the time in 2003 that the BALCO searches became public, Pettitte asked what he should say if a reporter asked Pettitte whether he ever used performance enhancing substances. McNamee told him he was free to say what he wanted, but that he should not go out of his way to bring it up. McNamee also asked Pettitte not to mention his name. McNamee never discussed these substances with Pettitte again.

2007-12-13 11:35:17
154.   rsmith51
150 And the only times Roger was good for the Yanks was in the 2000 post-season. Interesting...

151 And to think he is getting paid by the Red Sox... What a joke!

2007-12-13 11:35:58
155.   williamnyy23
152 Names like McGwire were listed in the section on cases that were already publicized...that is simply a list of players culled from Radomski.
2007-12-13 11:37:37
156.   williamnyy23
It seems like the case against Clemens is more damning than Pettitte. Andy is alleged to only have taken HGH during an injury rehabilation during a period when it was neither an illegal subtance or listed on MLB's list of banned substances.
2007-12-13 11:38:55
157.   ms october
the best part is the copies of the cancelled checks made out to radomski
2007-12-13 11:42:07
158.   JL25and3
I'd just like to say: Gary Sheffield didn't do no steroids. Steroids are when you stick a needle in your butt. Gary Sheffield didn't do no steroids.
2007-12-13 11:42:52
159.   wsporter
Odd that a guy on the Red Sawx BOD would rely on two NY guys as primary club houses sources. That seems at best a little 'tin earish'. Perhaps an unfortunate reflection of the only game in town and a reflection and result of a flawed process.
2007-12-13 11:43:04
160.   Sliced Bread
ah well. Varitek's still on my list.
2007-12-13 11:44:42
161.   Knuckles
Why are these players not named? (below)
Everyone in the world knows the first is Manny Alexander,

With the benefit of hindsight, it is clear that baseball missed the early warning
signs of a growing crisis. Then, beginning in the summer of 2000, a number of incidents
involving steroids or drug paraphernalia came to the attention of club and Commissioner's
Office officials, and the Players Association. They included:
In June 2000, state police in Boston discovered steroids and hypodermic needles
in the glove compartment of a vehicle belonging to a Boston Red Sox infielder;
SR-15
Also in June 2000, a clubhouse attendant found a paper bag containing six vials of
steroids and over two dozen syringes in the locker of a pitcher with the Florida
Marlins;
In mid-September 2000, a clubhouse employee discovered a bottle of steroids and
several hundred diet pills in a package that had been mailed to the ballpark for an
Arizona Diamondbacks infielder;
In October 2001, officers with the Canadian Border Service discovered steroids,
syringes, and other drugs in an unmarked bag that came from the entourage of a
Cleveland Indians outfielder;
In September 2002, a bullpen catcher with the Montreal Expos was arrested for
trying to send marijuana back to Florida with the Florida Marlins' luggage. He
later told Major League Baseball security officials that he had supplied drugs to
nearly two dozen major league players, including eight players for whom he said
he had procured steroids.
Further inquiries were made in the Arizona and Montreal incidents, but in some of
these cases, little investigation was conducted. Almost without exception, before this
investigation began active major league players were not interviewed in investigations into their
alleged use of performance enhancing substances.

2007-12-13 11:45:35
162.   williamnyy23
I wonder what Clemens response will be...there are big allegations against him, but no direct proof (no checks, memos or support for McNamee's allegations).
2007-12-13 11:47:07
163.   ms october
william - i have only glanced at the report and didn't see this, but did mitchell make an attempt to interview players who were implicated by these sources? and is there any explanation why these sources were considered credible? thanks.
2007-12-13 11:50:35
164.   wsporter
163 He says he offered each player named an opportunity to "speak" to him.
2007-12-13 11:52:34
165.   yankz
Will, you got a page number for the Clemens info?
2007-12-13 11:53:21
166.   williamnyy23
161 Alexander is in the report in a section that details media reports on alleged steroid use.
2007-12-13 11:54:04
167.   Shaun P
164 None, I imagine, took advantage of that opportunity. I can't blame them.

162 "Look, I've been a workout fiend since I was a kid. There isn't anyone who follows baseball who doesn't know this. These allegations are completely false - the result of " and then we find out why McNamee no longer works for Clemens. If this were in court, that's exactly how I'd attack McNamee's allegations - his credibility.

After all, right now this guy is famous.

2007-12-13 11:54:09
168.   dianagramr
165

begins on page 215 ..... he's mentioned 82 times!

2007-12-13 11:54:16
169.   williamnyy23
165 Starts on page 167 (of the report section, not the entire .pdf).
2007-12-13 11:55:11
170.   dianagramr
168

that should read page 215 of the total 409 pages .....

page 167 in the body of the report

2007-12-13 11:56:31
171.   Shaun P
"We also received significant cooperation from individuals who are no longer
employed in Major League Baseball, including executives, managers, coaches, athletic trainers,
doctors, and clubhouse personnel. We interviewed over 100 former club employees and other
individuals with relevant knowledge."

I bet you got plenty of cooperation from anyone with an ax to grind, Senator. Sheesh.

2007-12-13 11:57:15
172.   ms october
164 thanks.
i'm not naive enough to think (most) people on this list didn't do something - but i would like to think an official document would have to meet a higher standard of credibility
2007-12-13 11:57:42
173.   Shaun P
"Although I was not able to obtain every relevant fact, I did receive enough
information to be able to describe the history and current status of the illegal use of performance
enhancing substances in Major League Baseball."
2007-12-13 11:58:08
174.   YankeeInMichigan
The only thing Pettitte is cited for is HGH while recovering from an injury. I don't think that qualifies him as a "juicer."
2007-12-13 12:00:22
175.   williamnyy23
174 Especially because it wasn't a banned substance (as opposed to steroids, which while not tested for, were banned) before 2005. Does anyone know the legal status of HGH at that time?
2007-12-13 12:00:23
176.   wsporter
So who comes out with the "Clemens/Andy is a Disgrace" article first? Kernan or the Malignant Dwarf?
2007-12-13 12:02:57
177.   Shaun P
This report ought to be the "Kirk Radomski" report. All the evidence in the appendix is stuff Radomski gave them, nothing more. A lot of canceled checks, some notes and shipping labels.
2007-12-13 12:03:48
178.   YankeeInMichigan
148 Your list excludes the BALCO section of the report. That section lists:
Benard
Bonds
Estalella
Giambi (both)
Santiago
Sheffield
Velarde
2007-12-13 12:05:47
179.   rbj
171 Not to mention those whom Selig could punish without running afoul of the MLBPA.

Now, I'm sure there is at least some, if not a lot of truth to what's gone on. Still, it is probably incomplete and may be over inclusive too.

2007-12-13 12:10:36
180.   williamnyy23
178 Right...but I assumed those names were already known. I just compiled what I thought were "new" names.
2007-12-13 12:10:37
181.   Shaun P
176 MFD, if the Malignant Dwarf aka Gollum aka the writer formerly known as Mike Lupica? My guess is Lupica.

175 I don't know, but I'm trying to find out. For once, google is not very helpful.

2007-12-13 12:14:09
182.   ms october
181 i googled it too to little avail. i do remember when the pauly byrd stuff came out before game 7 - it was reported that hgh is legal with a prescription for very limited uses (for example, NOT for the pituitary condition byrd mentioned)
and i bet we get a lupica speech tomorrow.
2007-12-13 12:18:37
183.   Shaun P
175 According to this document, which I think its legitimate, the possession of hGH without a valid doctor's prescription has been a federal crime since at least February 27, 1991 - possibly earlier, but if Congress went out of its way to make it explicit in 1990, that suggests there was something wrong with the previous statute.
2007-12-13 12:20:28
184.   wsporter
181 MFD, it ain't Jimmy Cannon. :-)
2007-12-13 12:26:56
185.   Shaun P
183 Drat - of course I left out the link!

http://tinyurl.com/2nahqw

2007-12-13 12:40:19
186.   dianagramr
183 175
this from Will Carroll's on-going chat right now ...

Will Carroll: The cream (testosterone) and clear (THG) were not banned until 2005, when MLB expanded their drug list after the congressional hearings. HGH was placed on the banned list at the same time.

McGwire never played during the testing era, which for all intents and purposes means that all substances save for "drugs of abuse" were not banned. Illegal? Yes, but not banned.

2007-12-13 12:40:58
187.   yankz
This is ridiculous. Almost all the guys named were from the trainer in NYC. Yeah, like trainers in Boston and Miami and Chicago and L.A. are totally clean.

It's no wonder the '01 Yanks look like a bunch of criminals. Only their trainer spoke up.

2007-12-13 12:49:23
188.   yankz
Years ago, some asshat on ESPN claimed that if you put Tejada in Jeter's place in 1996, you'd have the same result.

Who's laughing now biatch

2007-12-13 12:50:46
189.   JeremyM
Not one Red Sox player. Come the f-ck on. (Jeremy Giambi, Eric Gagne, and Canseco don't count.)
2007-12-13 12:54:47
190.   YankeeInMichigan
189 Also Vaughn and Donnelly. Okay, neither of them count either.

Bottom line is that Mitchell only had two cooperating sources. One of them happened to be a strength coach with the Yankees.

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