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A. Aceves BR E mi

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J. Veras BR BP BC E mi
E. Ramirez BR BP BC E mi
B. Bruney BR BP BC E mi
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D. Robertson BR BC E mi
H. Sanchez BC mi

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Abreu Trade
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J. Sanchez mi PHI

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Yankee Panky #35: What's Next?
2007-12-12 05:55
by Will Weiss

Christmas is approaching, and the Yankees have yet to buy fans their big offseason present. Because they haven’t cannonballed into the deep end and splashed everyone at the pool party, media types are circling like starving wolverines, bandying theories about why the Yankees will or won’t be successful in 2008.

The Detroit Tigers were the news, with their acquisition of Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis. Thanks to Steve Phillips and fellow Ithaca College alum Karl Ravech, I know the AL pennant will return to Motown in ‘08. Do the Tigers have a great lineup and a solid top three starting rotation? Sure. Does any of that guarantee even a wild-card? Ask the Pittsburgh Steelers how their guarantee worked out last week.

The Tigers included a top-flight prospect in Andrew Miller to get Cabrera and Willis. They were willing to mortgage some of their future to get two bona fide All-Stars. The Yankees weren’t willing to do the same, and they’re left Sans-tana. Depending on what you read and who you believe, the Yankees’ firm stance of conservatism is the correct approach. Newsday's Wally Matthews goes so far as to say it’s making them likeable. Do Yankee fans want the team to be likeable outside the bounds of New York and Boston?  

Maybe the key to that is Joba Chamberlain, ESPN Magazine’s newest cover boy and the winner of ESPN.com’s fan poll of the young star will have the greatest impact on the 2008 sporting landscape. With triple-digit power on his fast ball and a slider that dances like a wiffleball in a 20 mile-per-hour gust, it’s not a stretch. Maybe people just like his name. Look at all the fun we had with it in this space when he burst onto the scene in August.

I still maintain the young Cornhusker could make a bigger impact by remaining a devastating set-up man for Rivera and eventually inheriting that role. But the LaTroy Hawkins signing all but assures the Joba Plan involves pitching every fourth day. That is, unless Brian Cashman does a 180 on his public support of Kyle Farnsworth and deals the reliever. This is the same man who was 100 percent positive Bubba Crosby was the Yankees’ 2006 starting center fielder, until he signed Johnny Damon for that job six weeks before spring training.

* * *

Elsewhere, the Winter Meetings coverage was bland. I’ll admit, I lost interest myself when the Yankees announced they were withdrawing their entry in the Santana Sweepstakes.

The lefty’s situation is reminiscent of Alex Rodriguez’s four years ago, between the posturing, the interested teams involved, and the hype surrounding his next destination. Would anyone else be shocked if the Yankees, after months of lying in the weeds, landed him in a blockbuster deal right before Spring Training, as they did with A-Rod?

Until that happens, the faux deadlines of Hank Steinbrenner and “doors are still open for Santana” stories will dominate coverage. And since it wouldn't be a Yankees offseason without trade rumors, stories like the ones that surfaced regarding Hideki Matsui will continue. It's the cycle of the Yankees Hot Stove, which right now, is on low heat.

Next week … Mitchell Report fallout, and a friendly game of Where In the World Is Johan Santana?

Comments (100)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-12-12 06:17:35
1.   rbj
"This is the same man who was 100 percent positive Bubba Crosby was the Yankees' 2006 starting center fielder, until he signed Johnny Damon for that job six weeks before spring training"

I've got no problem with that. To me, it's ok to state that "A" is what we're going with, but still look around to see if there's an upgrade.

Same with Santana; it's ok to make a deal for him but I just don't want to rape the farm system for him. I'd rather have a team with a bunch of very good players than one with a couple of superstars and a bunch of pieces. Of course the Yankees won't be that bad, I just don't want a return to the 1980s. Ugh.

2007-12-12 06:41:06
2.   Andre
"Sans-tana" - nice ; )
2007-12-12 06:42:26
3.   JL25and3
Repeating a post from the last thread:

This will probably be in Alex's post today, but I have to mention it anyway. Warning to Mattpat: this article might give you an aneurysm. http://tinyurl.com/yvphbo

My favorite line: "O'Connell said Pavano was concerned because he was only 11 days from accruing 10 years' service time in the majors and thus a full pension." Excuse me? By next year this guy will have stolen - er, "earned" - almost $50 million, and he's worried about his pension?

For that matter: if Pavano can pitch again, he'll get those 11 days. So he's concerned about accruing ML service time even if he can't pitch anymore. As if he hasn't already stolen enough service time, either...

2007-12-12 06:54:02
4.   rbj
3 F'ing release him. Or see if Tony Soprano is looking for some "work."
2007-12-12 06:56:07
5.   ms october
0 i think steve phillips still has his detroit hat from when he was a kid. maybe he is the faux gm there.

and a 180 on farns is would be nice - even a sharp right turn.

i wonder how much impact the media - especially someone like espn - has on influencing trades - their coverage of the potential santana trade with the yanks and red sox offers was their usual slant.

3 that carl is always one step ahead.

2007-12-12 06:58:27
6.   OldYanksFan
The winter meetings ending up in Sans tana (good one!) tells me the Yankees have a plan, and are thinking carefully about their youth, future and payroll. In some ways, this is the best news we could get. Having a financial advantage is nice. Having a 'Smarts' advantage is much better.

It's easy to outspend other teams. I personally would like out-planning and out-thinking to be the priority, and then use our money in the most efficient manner.

2007-12-12 07:02:47
7.   Alex Belth
Is anyone invested in what's going to shake down in this Mitchell Report? Howard Bryant has a long investigative piece on it today at ESPN.com.
2007-12-12 07:11:07
8.   ms october
7 i read that piece - i believe the report is compromised on many levels.
oyf talked about the "hierarchy" or "pyramid" of who was being investigated the other day - and this aticle indicates that the owners are being given a pass - while the management and obviously the players are the main ones being held accountable
2007-12-12 07:15:59
9.   cercle
It would be nice if the Mitchell Report finally closed the door on the steroid era, but I think that's unlikely to happen.

It's non-tender day. Matt Wise is supposedly going to be NTed by the Brewers, if he hasn't been already. Worth taking a shot? Not sure what other relievers might hit the market.

2007-12-12 07:17:23
10.   williamnyy23
7 I have to admit that steroids has been a very minor issue for me, so I am looking forward to the report just so I don't have to keep hearing about it.

How about this game for a little pre-Mitchell fun. Let's all go on record with one surprise name that we think will appear in the report. My candidate is Jose Reyes.

2007-12-12 07:18:39
11.   williamnyy23
9 He'd be worth a spring invite. Not sure if a guaranteed deal would make sense without knowing exactly how the bullpen will shake out.
2007-12-12 07:20:32
12.   williamnyy23
If you really wanted to improve your team, I wonder if adding Barry Bonds would be more palatable now that so many names will be released by Mitchell. From the Yankees perspective, they could trade Matsui to the Giants for Sanchez and a prospect and then sign Bonds. Bonds would easily surpass Matsui's production and probably come at half the price.
2007-12-12 07:28:52
13.   ms october
12 i suspect the indictment came down when it did to make sure bonds does not play again - i wouldn't be surprised to see him in court most of the summer
2007-12-12 07:30:41
14.   ny2ca2dc
10 Good idea. Shea Hillenbrand & uh, I duno, Kyle Farnsworth and how about AJ Pierzinski. Wait, is this a douche bag list or PED list?
2007-12-12 07:38:09
15.   williamnyy23
13 Actually, a recent NYT articles stated the case wasn;t likely to be tried until after the 2007 season.
2007-12-12 07:38:28
16.   cercle
Latest I've heard is that Bonds' trial won't start until this time next year and that he'll probably sign with the A's.

Prior to A-Rod returning I was in favor of signing him as I thought it was the only conceivable way to replace that middle of the order production. The idea of replacing Matsui with him makes some sense, too. I doubt the Yankees will go there, but it's not a bad idea.

2007-12-12 07:45:22
17.   Rob Middletown CT
"I still maintain the young Cornhusker could make a bigger impact by remaining a devastating set-up man for Rivera and eventually inheriting that role."

It should be fun finding out, and arguing over where the dividing line between the value of ~75 innings of (spectacular) relief and ~200 innings of starting is. Obviously if he's spectacular as a starter, this is no debate (and I think we all hope that happens). But if he's merely "pretty good" well, then it will be interesting.

2007-12-12 07:49:40
18.   ms october
15 thanks - i didn't see that.
my speculation led me to think what i wrote - since someone (arod) would need only 8 more hrs than aaron to break bond's record if he never plays again - and i would think the powers that be don't want bonds adding any more hrs to his total

if matsui is traded i do wonder where that leaves things. it doesn't seem wise to bank on giambi being healthy the entire year. as someone (maybe yankz) pointed out yesterday - shelley's health issues seem pretty serious and no telling how and how long that will effect him.
so 1b/dh still seems very much a need.

2007-12-12 07:50:08
19.   williamnyy23
17 If the Yankees make Joba a reliever now, there is pretty much no going back. I'd rather give him a crack as a starter and then make a final decision based on how he performs. The bets case would be you have a #1 ace and the worst case would be you have dominant closer.
2007-12-12 07:52:06
20.   Raf
7 8 10 - Check out the response over @ River Ave Blues; http://tinyurl.com/24henh
2007-12-12 08:02:13
21.   Alex Belth
My call would be Clemens (and, if it's Roger, then count Andy in too), and Pudge Rodriguez as the two big guys. Other Yankees? I fear there will be one guy I love who gets named. So let's go to my favorite Yankee--Bernie. How about minor guys like Brosius or Mike Stanton? I'm just guessing of course.
2007-12-12 08:10:19
22.   ms october
21 do you think there will mostly be names of guys who are no longer playing rather than active players?
2007-12-12 08:15:50
23.   Schteeve
7 I barely care. I'm mildly worried that Jeter will be implicated in a Viagra stockpiling offshoot of the investigation but that's about it.

As far as surprise names in the report, here are my picks with my estimated odds.

1) David Eckstein : (HGH) 4000-1
2) Darin Erstad: (Mainlining Grit and Hustle for the past 12 years) 1:1
3) Rocco Baldelli.

2007-12-12 08:22:23
24.   Orly Yarly NoWai
My bet: the number of current and former Yankees greatly exceeds the number of current and former Red Sox.
2007-12-12 08:37:16
25.   williamnyy23
21 With Clemens and Pettitte already tacitly linked, I don't know if I'd count those two guys as a surprise, especially if the report simply cites the same reference that was debunked a while back.

Bernie doesn't strike me as a candidate because his career path pretty much followed the pre-steroid era player. If he was using steroids, boy did they not work.

2007-12-12 08:39:11
26.   williamnyy23
22 Considering that Radomski left the Mets in 1995, and his cooperation is supposed to be the main source of names, I'd guess most on the list will be long-term vets or recently retired.
2007-12-12 09:02:08
27.   standuptriple
If the Mitchell report doesn't implicate (I doubt it will even suggest) that management turned a blind eye then I'll consider it a failure. When was the last thing Big Gov't got involved with that actually produced results? I would be shocked if there were more RedSox than Yankees though. I've been very pessimistic about the whole report since day one.
2007-12-12 09:09:41
28.   williamnyy23
27 The Bryant article already lists 4 or 5 ex-Red Sox who are known to be steroid users. From more recent teams, I think Oritz and Nixon candidates. I think only two names could rock Yankees Universe and Red Sox Nation...those would be Jeter and Ortiz.
2007-12-12 09:13:02
29.   tommyl
28 Jason Varitek, or...Dustin Pedroia would upset a lot of people ;)
2007-12-12 09:18:34
30.   NJYankee41
10 My surprise pick is Johan Santana. That would be a media frenzy.
2007-12-12 09:19:12
31.   larylegnd
I generally try not to get sucked into this kind of, I'll just say, stuff, but I could not help it this time.

I am a big Yankees fan, and I have to SERIOUSLY question the entire setup and contention of this column, Yanky Panky #35.

The very first sentence of this column, and I quote, "Christmas is approaching, and the Yankees have yet to buy fans their big offseason present."

Really??? Now I'm not saying nothing else will happen, but the Yankees HAVE spent $400 million so far this offseason, all on guys who had already hit the free agent market.

And speaking of those free agents, where on this year's list of free agents did Alex Rodriguez, Mariano Rivera, and Jorge Posada rank?

Had the Dodgers gone out and spent $400 million to sign Alex Rodriguez, Mariano Rivera, and Jorge Posada (and they could have, by the way. Again, all three were free agents into the signing period), would anybody be saying the Dodgers "have yet to buy fans their big offseason present."???

2007-12-12 09:25:47
32.   NJYankee41
31 I think it was more of a tongue-in-cheek type comment targeting the media's perspective on such things. I don't think anyone would debate that its not a great thing to have those three back, not to mention Pettitte too.
2007-12-12 09:34:51
33.   JL25and3
Cubs sign Fukudome, 4/48.
2007-12-12 09:35:33
34.   51cq24
24 what's your definition of "greatly"?

25 these wouldn't be a surprise; that wouldn't happen (would be a surprise)
bernie would be a huge shock and disappointment. but the biggest for yankee fans would be mo, i think.

2007-12-12 09:43:39
35.   rbj
My prediction for the Mitchell report:

"Most teams, especially the NYYankees had players using steroids & HGH. Only the plucky Red Sox had a system in place to guard against steroid users & thus maintain the purity of the game. When the RS thought certain players were using steroids (Damon, Clemens)they made sure to get rid of them."

Not that I think Sen. Mitchell would be biased, simply because he's associated with them.

2007-12-12 09:52:41
36.   NJYankee41
I don't believe George Mitchell will be bias in the overall sense, but I tend to believe if Ortiz showed up in the investigation Mitchell would want to surpress it to avoid questioning of the 2 world series they have won. It just seems that it would be far too damaging to the Red Sox for him to let a big name like Ortiz be implicated.
2007-12-12 10:05:44
37.   vockins
I could not care less who gets named in the Mitchell Report.

Bonds - whatever.
Jeter - whatever.
Eckstein - whatever.
Tris Speaker - whatever.

2007-12-12 10:06:24
38.   wsporter
O's moved Tejada to the 'Stros for what looks like not much. I wonder if the compensation or lack thereof may indicate that he's on Mitchell's fecal roster.
2007-12-12 10:11:52
39.   rbj
Any chance Yankees could get Pavano's name on Mitchell's report & thus boot him from the team without having to pay him his outrageous salary.

And I've been mostly out of the loop, but just heard somewhere that the Phillies have some interest in Moose. It is eastern PA, so he should be comfortable there, it'd be kinda nice to move him.

2007-12-12 10:13:52
40.   Schteeve
39 I saw that thing about Moose yesterday. Assuming everything stays the same, we've got three guys with innings caps in Kennedy, Joba, and Hughes, so I think having depth at SP is a good thing, and unless the return on Moose would be game changing, I wouldn't make the move.
2007-12-12 10:19:50
41.   vockins
39 OK, Pavano would be cool.
2007-12-12 10:31:43
42.   mehmattski
The Tejada trade lends evidence to OYF and others who think that Santana can be had in a 6 (mostly mediocre players) for 1 trade. Of course, Santana >>>> Tejada, but those trades do happen.
2007-12-12 10:35:25
43.   Rob Middletown CT
Well, the MN front office >> the Oriole front office, too. So no, I don't think a package of lots of mediocre prospects is going to land Santana.
2007-12-12 10:43:55
44.   yankz
I'd be pretty shattered if Jeter was named.
2007-12-12 10:44:28
45.   williamnyy23
42 I think your comment combined with 43 pretty much speaks to why the Twins wont settle for quantity over quality.

On the surface, it does look like the Astros didn't get much, but Tejada seems to be a player in decline. The fact that he has been rumored as a steroid user doesn't help much either. Scott is a very nice bat (and may actually out hit Tejada this year), but at 29 years old is only a stop gap player. The young pitchers range from a rejuvenated bullpen arm to back-end of the rotation prospects, so it really does look more like a salary dump as well as addition by subtraction.

2007-12-12 10:47:21
46.   Shaun P
43 I'd add in that the MN front office >> the Oriole front office >>>> the Houston front office.

The Astros have no good starting pitching after Oswalt, and yet they trade away their two best young pitchers in Albers and Patton? They are going to try to bludgeon opposing teams to death - if its possible to do that while having a lineup including Ausmus, Adam Everett, Kaz Matsui, and a pitcher every day. "Roy and Wandy, they better be dandy!"

Sheesh. Ed Wade still has no clue. He probably thinks they'll win the division.

2007-12-12 10:54:49
47.   rbj
40 I agree that with innings caps another starter will be needed. It's just that based on last year I honestly don't think Moose has anything left in the tank. I don't mean to be a hater, just that Cashman should look for a different 6th starter.
2007-12-12 10:55:03
48.   mehmattski
45 I agree with you, was just pointing out that 6-for-1 trades do exist under the right circumstances (salary dumps, terrible GMs like Ed Wade).

In the pre A-Rod re-signs days, I was very opposed to acquiring Tejada. Not just the steroid accusations (which I don't really care about except that Tejada's pre-2004 production may have been inflated), I was very dissuaded by Tejada's apparent lack of interest when playing the Yankees last year. I frequently saw him failing to run out pop-ups or weak grounders... and his fielding was just as lazy. Sure, it sucks to play for a loser like the Orioles, but I'd rather have players with good work ethics.

I have a feeling the Astros just got a giant lemon.

2007-12-12 11:04:15
49.   williamnyy23
46 I'm no so sure I agree with you. Albers and Patton are at best 5th starter types. Luke Scott wasn't going to play everyday and Costanzo, who was just acquired in the Lidge deal, is also a second-tier prospect at best. So, if Tejada can come close to his 2004-2006 performance, and stay in good enough shape to play defense at SS or 3B, the deal might be worth it.

From the Orioles side, while they aren't really getting much more than stop gaps and end of roster filler, it is kind of addition by subtraction as well as a salary dump. Coming off a bad season and steroid implications, I am not sure that there would have been a bigger market for Tejada. You can question why the Orioles didn't deal Tejada sooner, but I don't think they could have gotten much more now.

2007-12-12 11:13:11
50.   MetsSox
The Tigers are not the favorites in 2008. Come on now, people we all know its the Red Sox. Can u say 3 titles in 5 years? Hell yea, I can with or without Santana.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-12-12 11:31:29
51.   pistolpete
50 Hysterical!
2007-12-12 11:34:28
52.   Shaun P
49 All that may be true, but the odds are significantly greater that one of Albers, Patton, or Costanzo will be on the next contending Orioles team, whereas the odds of Tejada having been on the next contending Orioles team have got to be near zero.

I don't think Tejada was going to get back to his '04-'06 production in Baltimore, and while Albers and Patton may not seem like much, as they say with pitchers, youneverknow.

In any case, I do think Ed Wade (and Drayton McClane) think they just won the Astros the division with this deal, and I'm not convinced of that at all.

2007-12-12 11:57:23
53.   JL25and3
36 I think people underestimate George Mitchell's basic decency. I would be astonshed if he didn't just let the chips fall where they may.
2007-12-12 12:05:45
54.   MetsSox
51 I don't really see what is so funny.
2007-12-12 12:17:45
55.   yankz
Your user name is MetsSox. You a