Baseball Toaster was unplugged on February 4, 2009.
Yankees' Offseason To-Do List
The Yankees have made a three-year, $45-million offer to Mariano Rivera. With an average annual salary of $15 million, the deal would make Rivera far and away the game's best-paid closer. (Billy Wagner will make $10.5 million in 2008 and 2009, B.J. Ryan will make $10 million in each of the next three seasons. No other closer has an eight-digit salary.)
With the team waiting for Rivera to accept and for Andy Pettitte (serving as Roger Clemens understudy in this winter's production of Hamlet) to make a final decision about playing next year, the time has come for the Yankees to turn their attention to third base.
If the 2008 season started today, the Yankee lineup would have Bobby Abreu in right field, Derek Jeter at shortstop, Robinson Cano at second base, and Jorge Posada catching, of course. Melky Cabrera would be the center fielder while Johnny Damon and Hideki Matsui would share time in left field and at DH, with Matsui, who is having surgery on his right knee today, getting the bulk of the time at DH. That would make Jason Giambi the primary first baseman with Shelley Duncan filling in against lefties at first and in right field as needed, and Andy Phillips available as a defensive replacement and second platoon bat at first base. Phillips could also serve as platoon relief for Wilson Betemit, who would be the primary third baseman.
Brian Cashman's assignment at the hot corner is thus finding an upgrade over Betemit or, at bare minimum, a superior platoon partner than Phillips to spell Betemit against lefties. In either case, Cashman should be looking for a right-handed bat. The Yankee lineup as constructed above is contains five lefties (Damon, Abreu, Cano, Matsui, Giambi) and two switch hitters with career OPSs below .700 from the right side (Cabrera and Betemit). That leaves Derek Jeter and Jorge Posada to carry the bulk of the weight against lefties, forcing Joe Girardi to resort to Shelley Duncan and Andy Phillips for additional right-handed fire power.
With the Yankees having closed the door on Alex Rodriguez (or, more accurately, Alex Rodriguez having failed to take the Yankees seriously when they said they would close the door if he opted out), there remains just one righty-hitting free agent first baseman who would indeed represent an upgrade over Betemit. That, of course, is Mike Lowell. Though the Red Sox failed to re-sign Lowell prior to his becoming available to other teams yesterday, it still seems that Lowell will most likely return to Boston. Still, now that he's out there to be had, the Yankees would be foolish not to entertain the idea. Much has been made of Lowell's troubling home/road split in 2007, but few have bothered to note that he was much better on the road in 2006 (.310/.352/.514 against a mere .260/.327/.436 at Fenway), or that he had several strong seasons while playing half his games in the Marlins' pitching-friendly home park. Given the dearth of free agent alternatives, I'm not terribly inclined to fret about Lowell's 2007 splits.
Of greater concern is the fact that he is seeking a four-year deal, which is one reason why he hasn't re-upped with the Sox as of yet (Boston is holding firm at three years). Lowell is reportedly looking for the same sort of 4-year/$52-million contract that the Yankees have recently given to Johnny Damon, Hideki Matsui, and Jorge Posada. If he can't get that four-year deal by going elsewhere, I'd expect him to go back to Boston on a three-year contract, which means it's four years or bust as far as a contract offer from the Yankees goes. Is Lowell worth it?
To begin with, he's older than Matsui and less than five months younger than Damon, both of whom only have two years left on their four-year deals, and both of whom were slowed by nagging injuries in 2007. It's also important to note that, while Lowell is a strong asset, he is not a dominating player. He's a contact hitter, which is good because he's only struck out 80 or more times once in his career, but bad because his on-base skills are modest and more dependent on his batting average than the typical Yankee hitter. Similarly, his power is fairly modest. He's topped 24 homers just twice and his career slugging percentage is .468. In fact, the Yankee Lowell most represents at the plate is Johnny Damon. Just swing him around to the right side, and give him ten more homers a year in place of all those stolen bases. Lowell's greatest asset, however, is his glove. Fret all you want about his swing being made for Fenway, or about the dreadful season he had in 2005 that he said was due to a crisis of confidence, his glove never waivers.
After Lowell, the only righty-hitting free agent third basemen are the washed up Tony Batista and Jeff Cirillo (neither of whom is likely to play in 2008 for anyone), Pedro Feliz (career .252/.288/.433), and Rodriguez's predecessor Aaron Boone. There are no real gems in next year's crop of free-agent third basemen either (Chipper Jones' option for 2009 can vest automatically, and one assumes that if Hank Blalock comes back strong enough from surgery the Rangers will pick up his option—Joe Crede is discussed below). With that in mind, I could see overpaying a bit for Lowell, though I would try to talk him down to a $10- or $11-million annual salary. Mike Lowell for $40 million over four years? Yeah, I think I'd do that.
As for those other four righties, Feliz can pick 'em, but even so that dismal .288 on-base percentage means he doesn't even meet the bare-minimum requirement of being a meaningful improvement over Andy Phillips as a potential platoon partner for Betemit. Boone's a similar case with more OBP, but less glove. That means if not Lowell, then a trade.
Three potential targets are eliminated right away by virtue of their being not only left-handed hitters, but lefties with steep platoon splits. Eric Chavez has seen his career stalled out in his late 20s, in part due to injuries, and in part due to a supposedly apathetic approach to self-improvement. Given his past glories, multiple Gold Gloves, and wily general manager, he's sure to be far too costly both in terms of the quality of players Billy Beane would demand in a trade, and the $37 million left on his contract. Arizona's Chad Tracy and Kansas City's Mark Teahen haven't gotten much attention in the third-base market, though they should. Tracy was Wally Pipped by Mark Reynolds last year, and with the younger, cheaper, more highly touted Conor Jackson at first base, Tracy's the odd man out in the Arizona infield. That said, Old Man Tracy won't turn 28 until late May and is a career .288/.348/.468 hitter. Teahen had a break out year at third base for the Royals in 2006 before being bumped to the outfield by überprospect Alex Gordon last year. Part of the A's Moneyball draft in 2002, Teahen is just 26 and a solid on-base threat. On the downside, both get more significant boosts from their home parks than Lowell gets from Fenway, and still the power Teahen showed in '06 went missing last year. For the Yankees purposes, none of these three lefties need apply.
Moving on to the righties, Garrett Atkins of the Rockies is one name that frequently popps up as Colorado has Ian Stewart ready to take over at third. Though Atkins looks like a great get on the surface, he's a butcher in the field and, like Tracy and Teahen, has even more troubling splits than Lowell. On his career, Atkins OPS is 146 points lower outside of Coors Field. To make matters worse, in 2007, both Atkins' OPS on the road and against lefty pitching was below .800. Of course, in 2006, Atkins tremendous breakout season, he hit very well on the road, but that's the only time he's done so in his career, and, with just three full seasons under his belt, the soon-to-be 28-year-old Atkins hasn't provided enough evidence to assure a team such as the Yankees that he could put up similar numbers outside of Denver. The end result is a large gap between that what the Rockies are selling—a third baseman with consecutive 20-homer, 110-RBI, .300-average seasons who played on the team with the best fielding percentage in major league history—and what the Yankees might be getting—perhaps a .280/.350/.430 hitter who plays third base like an aspiring first baseman.
Another name that surfaces a lot is that of the White Sox's Joe Crede. Crede could likely be had for much less than Atkins as Crede is coming off a dismal season cut short by back surgery and his replacement, Josh Fields, has already established himself in the bigs, hitting a very Crede-like .244/.308/.480 with 23 homers in 100 games in 2007, whereas Colorado's Stewart has had just 43 big league at-bats. By now you've already had two alarms go off: back surgery? .308 OBP? There's the rub. Crede's a career .259/.305/.446 hitter, which means he's typically been less productive than even the diminished version of Atkins. Crede is, however, a legitimately spectacular defender. Of course, his back surgery throws that into question, but we said the same about Doug Mientkiewicz coming into the 2007 season, and the older and more fragile Minky flashed his leather just fine at first base for the Yanks this year. If Crede could be had cheaply enough, he would be, at worst, a fine platoon partner for Betemit. Given that he'll be entering his walk year, earned nearly $5 million in 2007 (though that could go down in arbitration this winter), has already become obsolete on his own team, and is coming off a major surgery, I can't imagine the White Sox would be able to demand too much for him. The White Sox also make good trading partners for the Yankees because they don't have any gaping holes in their starting rotation and are thus less likely to demand any of the Yankees top young arms. Then again, the Sox could use a center fielder, so they might try to snag Melky. It almost goes without saying, but one year of Joe Crede is not nearly worth surrendering Melky Cabrera's future, though it might be worth a marginal relief pitcher or two.
The Reds' Edwin Encarnacion has also been discussed in the rumor mill, but the Reds wouldn't be unloading Encarnacion because they have some one younger and potentially better in their system. They'd be getting rid of him because he's a problematic fielder who has frustrated management with occasionally indifferent play. Sound attractive? What if I told you he too gets a mighty boost from his home ballpark? Moving on . . .
So there's this guy named Miguel Cabrera. Joe Girardi managed him in 2006. Seems Cabrera is the best young hitter in the game, has gotten an undeservedly poor reputation in the field, and after a season in which he totally let himself go and still hit .320/.401/.565, the 24-year-old Cabrera has decided to whip himself into shape for the 2008 season. Sound interesting? To put it simply, any opportunity to acquire a player of his ability at this stage in his career (he'll be 25 in April) should be taken very seriously. Cabrera is the sort of hitter who can fall out of bed and get a hit, but he absolutely creamolishes lefties (.316/.423/.578 career) and, despite his reputation, he's an above average defensive third baseman. You read that right. Looking at Dave Pinto's Probalistic Model of Range for third basemen in 2006 (Pinto hasn't posted 2007 yet), Cabrera is nearly dead center on the list, comfortably into the positive and just two notches below Chavez (Crede, incidentally, is way out in front, while Atkins and Encarnacion are well into the negative, curiously right below Wilson Betemit and Alex Rodriguez's dismal 2006 defensive performance). Those numbers are backed up by Baseball Prospectus's less reliable Rate stat. Cabrera's fielding may have slipped with the weight he put on this past season, but put him back under Joe Girardi's guidance, surround him with positive influences such as Tony Peña, Jorge Posada, and his countryman Bobby Abreu, and put him his first real pennant race since he was a 20-year-old rookie, and he could easily blossom into the best player in baseball.
The only real question is how much can the Yankees afford to give up for Cabrera. The way I see it, Joba Chamberlain, Phil Hughes, and Robinson Cano (fortunately the Fish have the keystone covered with Dan Uggla) should be untouchable regardless of the return (Johan Santana included), but I'd give up just about anyone else to get Cabrera, who would be under team control for three more seasons (albeit at very steep arbitration prices, he made $7.4 million in 2007). Cabrera's so good that, given his age and his price, he could actually represent an upgrade over Alex Rodriguez over the next three seasons and, even if his defense takes an irreparable fall, he hits well enough to be among the best in the game at first base or in an outfield corner, all of which will be positions of need for the Yankees in 2009 and beyond.
Thus my third-base wishlist is looks like this: 1) Cabrera for anyone but Joba, Hughes, or Cano; 2) Lowell for something in the area of $40m/4yrs, 3) Crede on the cheap. It could be that none of those three players can be had at those prices. If so, the Yanks should resign themselves to helping Wilson Betemit realize his potential while trolling the non-tenders for someone like Morgan Ensberg who could challenge Phillips for the job as Betemit's platoon partner.
While we're talking about the infield, I'll wrap up with a quick word on first base. With Jason Giambi finally in the last year of his contract (the Yankees will most surely buy out his $22 million option for 2009 even at the steep $5 million buyout price), it appears the Yankees are willing to stick him at first base and see what they can get out of him. Sure, they'll suffer on defense, but with Phillips, Duncan, and possibly Betemit available for late-game replacements, it seems worth the gamble to try to get one more monster season out of the Giambino. Remember, he hit .253/.413/.558 with 37 homers and 113 RBIs just last year, and he's had an OPS+ of 148 or higher in five of his seven season in pinstripes. With no need to keep him healthy for 2009, the Yankees might as well wring every last hit out of him this year, and prior to last year's injury-addled season, he's always hit significantly better when he plays the field. If he breaks down and they have to turn to Duncan and Phillips with more regularity, so be it. Maybe lefty-swinging Juan Miranda (who hit .265/.352/.480 at Trenton this year and is currently tearing up the Arizona Fall League to the tune of .295/.423/.551) will be ready to help out by then, or maybe the Braves will be looking to unload Mark Teixeira at the deadline. Giambi's upside is worth the gamble. Heck, they've come this far with the guy.
Wow, I never thought I'd feel nostalgic about old Jason.
The times they are a-changin', eh?
Cabrera, eh?
You promise me he's serious about being serious, Cliff?
and when i say "taken at least 10 days", i mean, at least returned the initial phone calls from the GM and new owner BEFORE opting out in the middle of a world series game ...
whatever ... no matter how much i stuck up for you while you were here, a-rod, you're dead to me ...
2 Agreed, now let's make him a dead issue in comments.
*pps ... and by "one of us" ... i mean bat-shit-crazy-fanboy"!!!
sigh ...
Corey Koskie might be a 3B available cheap althought he too is left handed.
ergh!
old age?!?!?
shiite!!! i remember the Azocar years!!! ...
Koskie has post-concussion syndrome. His career is likely over.
I can feel myself drawn to the talent, but it almost feels like a deal with the devil.
I mean really, Manny is something to behold, and indeed, when I'm not busy fearing him, I'm just awed by his talent at hitting a baseball. His antics actually endear him to me, serving as a kind of comic foil to the danger he poses.
That said, I don't know how I'd bear having him be our guy, dealing with those antics day in, day out.
Maybe I'm boring, but I prefer to play it straight. Eccentricity on the ball field makes me very nervous.
That said, I could take a chance on Cabrera, especially if at least I could cling to the hope that Girardi'll straighten him out. Baseball's serious business, you know, not some kind of circus.
I don't want to see the bearded lady at 3B, but rather a third-baseman.
The D-Backs could move Chad Tracy to first even.
And where does the resolving the first-base/DH logjam happen if not in the offseason? Spring training? Are all the parts there? I've been convinced for months that Yankees have to move Damon or Melky to bring Matsui's subpar defense back to LF and allow Giambi to DH because neither Damon nor Melky has enough pop for a corner outfield position.
http://tinyurl.com/3boyf3
Assuming there's any truth to these rumors, I don't think we have a comparable package that doesn't include Hughes, Joba or Cano. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, though.
That's a solid #2 starter, IMO. How many guys in the AL can match up with that? Not many, I'd think. Maybe 10-15 guys.
I wouldn't make Wang totally untouchable, but I do think people are underestimating his value.
He's going to cost close to $40m one way or the other. That way either the Sox give him 4 years for more, or we get a decent AAV on him.
I would pay him a signing bonus of $4m and $10m/annually. If we need to dump/trade him next year he has 3/$30 left on his contract, which might make him moveable.
In general, I don't like semi-power RH pull hitters in the stadium. Is Lowell and up-the-middle type hitter?
Mo, the 3 year/$45 mil is generous. Please take it.
2 , 3 Who is this "A-Rod"?
Tejada is really perfect for us. a RH batter, a + batter, and not too expensive. His stock his low now. I say buy low, sell high. If you are not worried about MCabs attitude, Miggy's shouldn't bother you. Playing in Baltimore has to be depressing. My guess is he comes to life batting in the middle of our lineup.
I'm guessing, but as Bonds wants to come here, he might come cheaply... around $10m. If he bats 4th for us, it totally changes the dynamic of our offense. Maybe when Mitchell announces 30 other 'steroid abusers', the Bonds stench will be easier to take.
For me, bottom line, I want to compete with, and beat Boston this year. I think our future is bright, and in 2009, there are quality FAs and we have over $60m coming off the books.
For 2008, unless Cashman does some magic we aren't anticipating, Bonds is our best bet to substantially improve our offense.
Without having to play defense, it's not unlikely for him to post close to ARod/MCab numbers and less then 1/2 the price. Can that be ignored?
19 I agree. The Yanks need to reduce the number of too long contracts, not add to them. There was no way to get Posada without the extra year and the other catcher options were bad to horrible. But some other 3b options might present themselves besides having to give Lowell a 4th year. If the Yanks are forced into these type of deals, they need to get cheaper buy-outs for the end of contracts though.
ARod was 103.37 and Crede was 110.62 (2nd highest of all 3B). Mike Lowell had a PMR of 106.24
Signing Lowell would be a significant miscalculation on the Yankees part, made all the more worse if it prompts Boston to find a much better replacement.
Lowell's hitting charts:
http://tinyurl.com/3bwzcd
His power is all pull, baby. He sprays his singles a bit, but anything deep is going to left.
Lowell isn't a bad option if he can be had cheaply (which doesn't seem to be the case), but I'm thinking he's Robin Ventura part II more than anything else.
29 I think this is accurate: As dead as A-Rod may be to all of us, he's actually the perfect fit for our team. What's more, by voluntarily taking ourselves out of the A-Rod negotiations, we REALLY damage our overall leverage: Not only do we eliminate the best possible option at the position, we also drive down the market value on him, making him more affordable to Boston or LAA.
One more point to consider re trading for MCab: If there's any lingering animosity between Girardi and the Marlins' FO, it makes it that much less likely they'll cut us any sort of sweetheart deal (which wasn't going to happen in the first place) -- they can't have any interest in watching Cabrera AND Giradi win someplace else.
13 I don't think Wang is untouchable, no. Of course, I'd prefer to keep him, but I'd move him in the right deal, and a trade for Cabrera is the right deal if it's there to be had (though 15 makes a convincing case that it's not). I would not, however, trade both Wang and Kennedy. If one is moved, the other must stay.
29 MFD, it is a bad place, and you have a point . . . but bringing A-Rod back is going to cost a huge fortune. $300M/10 years + 40% luxury tax = $420M. Maybe the Yanks can get under the tax threshold, but if not, is A-Rod worth a cost of $42M/year for the next ten years?
IMO, Choice 1 ain't going to happen in any reality-based universe, Choice 2 isn't very good, and Choice 3 is a fallback position at best.
I would rate re-sign A-Rod despite his folly and trade for Tejada above any of the options listed above. The latter scares me as a PED user, but his contract is shorter than Lowell's will be.
That said, the Yankees took a public stance by declaring they would not negotiate with Rodriguez if he opted out. Much as it might seem wise to go back on that in this specific case, they simply cannot lest they lose credibility in all of their other negotiations moving forward. They have to stand by their word. Put more simply, they made a big bluff, Rodriguez and Boras called it, and now they have to prove they weren't bluffing or it will be assumed that everything else they say ("we're not trading the kids" "we can't give you that extra year" etc.) is a bluff as well.
Oy, indeed. I agree a Crow Pie Summit in Tampa might be the least unappealing of the unappealing hot stove options we're chewing over.
Ah, fug it. If I'm Cashman, I'm playing "super model at the buffet" for the next few weeks: appearing vaguely interested in everything, but at the same time, nothing at all.
This will accomplish nothing baseball wise, mind you, but Cash will look svelt in those reindeer sweaters he seems to love so much.
Meanwhile, it seems Hank Steinbrenner requires a cooling-off period when making big name purchases. His "the ball's in his court" needling of Rivera makes him look impatient, like he's standing over a cold pot demanding it to boil because he's just flipped the heat switch to high. Wonder where he got that trait from.
Moose - how many ever innings he can pitch (200 max)
IPK - cap ~180 IP*
Hughes - cap ~150 IP*
Joba - cap ~130 IP*
5th starter de jure - 150 IP
Total: Maximum of 710 innings
*Note the IP cap includes any postseason time and time spent in minors
Maybe the Yanks could get creative, and cycle through a number of 5th starters to up those IP totals, but trading Wang seems to leave a huge hole to me.
BTW, the innings caps don't include postseason games.
It's incredible to me that our best chance to win means ignoring the top two free agents at 3b, but I can't think of any other way around it.
I suppose the stars could align in some way that would allow us to obtain MCab: Boston could re-sign Lowell, A-Rod could go to LAA, and LAD might decide to save their chips for Johan (Colletti has stated that he plans to trade for pitching and man do they need it), which might leave us the most attractive suitors, but that's asking for a lot of things to go our way in an unlikely timeline. Still, stranger things have happened, I suppose.
I thought the 'rule of 30' included postseason time as well, but I could be wrong. To me, it seems like it should. I'd be concerned if Joba threw 142.1 regular season innings (30 over his previous high) and then added another 25 in the postseason. Even if that brought the Yanks a Serious win.
45 That's a good point I didn't consider.
Cliff, if the Yanks needed a FA pitcher, who would you advocate? A short term deal for Colon or Wolf has got to be better than a Pavano-type overpay for someone like Silva, right?
As for the money Texas "should be paying," that's in the past and has to be forgotten. Never mind anything about the past contract, and just look it it this way: the Yankees need a third baseman, and they need a right-handed power hitter to bat cleanup. There's a free agent available who amply fills their needs. The question is whether they want to sign him at that price - which they may not. That's all that matters.
If ARod doesn't want to be a Yankee, none of this matters. However, if it's still an option, this is the perfect opt out scenerio.
If nothing else, ARod definitely wants to know what he's worth. I dont think anyone will go higher then 8/$250, but as many GMs have said, it only takes one moron (T.Hicks) to ruin the market.
Had the Yankees 'officially' offered 8/$240, ARod could use that as a base to go to other teams and say 'do better or I stay in NY'. Now, he does NOT have that option. If teams think NY is OUT of the bdding, they will make/start with lower offers. Cashman knows this.
My guess is IF IF IF ARod would still like to play for us, when it's all oover, he will take his best offer to us and allow us to match it. IF. This is his 'cake and eat it too' scenerio.
The WS announcement, the 'blowing the Yanks off', the no phone calls to Cano, etc., all smacks of Boras game plan/manipulation. I think we take this ARod situation too personally. It's one giant game. This is the biggest sports contract in the history of the world. ARod's ego needs it, and Boras is the master at playing for bucks.
ARod also wants to win. So this way, he gets to come back to the Yankees after the dust has settled (manager, coaches, Mo, Po, Pet, Abreu).
Lets be honest... with ARod back, we really don't HAVE to do much with our offense. We can put a post a 1st base (or Giambi) and still score 900 runs. Cashman could concentrate 100% of one SP and 2 BP guys.
I personally think the Yankees and NY is too much for ARod. But if this is NOT the case, the door is still open. I'm waiting to see what the offer is from the Angels. They are really the only ones that might pay him as much as we would.
And while the $21m is a lot... lets be honest. We just overpaid Mo/Po more.
Right now, as far as production goes, Po is worth 3/$36. The market forced us to pay more. Mo is worth 2/$24 at most. He is not the best anymore, and probably won't be in 2009.
So lets be honest. It just cost us $30m+ to resign two lifetime Yankees. So what should we expect from ARod? If we are so pissed at ARod, why aren't we really pissed at Po/Mo? I mean... does Mo really have to think about 3/$45? He might as well put a gun to our heads. In 2010, we will have a 39 yr old catcher making $13m and a 41 yr old closer making $15m.
I still wouldn't mind trading Melky/IPK/Tabata or Jackson for Cabrera. The problem then shifts from 3B/1B to CF, where I'm not entirely sure that the best man on the market (Andruw Jones) is an option for the Yankees, given that Scott Boras is dead to them. Settling for Torii Hunter or Aaron Rowand would be a big mistake, and Brett Gardner is not entirely ready for the big time yet.
Cliff, you didn't mention internal moves like Jeter to 3B and AG playing short... is this because it will never happen?
I don't think anyone will sign ARod for 10 years guaranteed. It may be a 10 year deal, but it will have some "opt out" clause at the 5 year mark (player or team) so ARod can become a FA again in 5 years and cash in once again as he closes in on the HR record. I can see the Sox giving him a guaranteed 5 yr / $150 (with Boras announcing it at a 10 yr deal, yet knowing they will opt out after 5)
http://tinyurl.com/2e874m
At the end of the day, isn't that for the best? Also, as far as losing face, Cliff, you're making too much of it. Agents and players rarely take anything at 100% anyway, and I hardly think that you give up arguably the best player in the game to maintain your credibility in contract negotiations. As they say, money talks, bs walks...
http://tinyurl.com/24u8fu
Maybe he could be had in an Abreu-type salary dump?
PS - Rolen's agents are Sam and Seth Levinson, the guys who also represent Posada (and Lowell)
Well, if that were to come to fruition, I can't say I'd be too displeased. He really is the perfect fit.
So if A-Rod were to return, who would have to eat the most crow: Cash? Hank? Boras? A-Rod? Or...us?
Do crows come with wishbones?
Unspeakable Craphead might come back if he ate the $30 mil. he stole out of the mouths of Yankees children. That would save the strength of Cash's negotiating word. He could also easily fire Boras (saving himself 5% or about half the 30mil!) and blame him for the opt out ("Boras was like a father to me, but when I realized how he was hurting the game, the team I love, and even me, I just had to do something about it. I'm sorry for any pain I've caused.")
It is Boras that has done all the talking. Craphead, to his credit (and he needs a hell of a lot of credit), has kept his mouth shut and stayed out of the press.
Since when is 27 mil over ten years below market? I don't see anyone else falling over themselves trying to lock him up even at that price. More like eight years at 220.
51 And Boras NEVER gives teams opt outs. EVER.
I like the Rolen idea because it would cost less than Cabrera and there's really no way the Marlins are going to trade him unless they get major value in return. From the Yanks, that means Joba or Phil plus other major league ready or able players (like the Melkman). If the Yanks can get Miguel Cabrera for Sanchez, Horne, Marquez and Gardner, they'd be crazy not to do so; but the Fishies won't go that low just yet.
Bruce Chen
Eric Gagne
Jose Hernandez
Andruw Jones
Matt LeCroy
Travis Lee
Kyle Loshe
Rodrigo Lopez
Corey Patterson
Kenny Rogers
Ron Villone
Jeff Weaver
Brad Wilkerson
Byung-Hung Kim
Not that there is anyone other than Jones (and maybe Loshe) that the Yanks would be interested in. But cutting off the #1 agent in the game is not a winning strategy.
On the other hand, this could all be part of Boras' strategy to pump up the player's negotiating strategy by putting the Yankees back in play. Scott would be fine having player - owner direct negotiations if it helped his bargaining position with all the other teams.
rodriguez wanted out. that is what the timing of his announcement said to me. he won't ever be a yankee again.
73 I basically agree with your conclusion. But stranger things have happened.
Did you just get off the phone with him?
I would take A-Rod back if he ate serious crow, the deal made financial sense for the Yanks, and weakened Scott Boras.
63 Using Boras's top lieutenant would certainly be possible - though, obviously, Boras would be the equivalent of a manager who's been ejected, not physically present but still running things.
I'm not sure about firing him altogether at this point. I think Boras would have a very strong lawsuit.
When you opt out from your $27M contract with the New York Yankees .... then, "yes it is".
Cashman said: "the team had no plans of sweetening Rodriguez's deal in an effort to keep him on the team. It's the same thing with Mariano Rivera, Jorge Posada and all other guys," Cashman told the paper. "He's got a significant contract he's earned, and we hope he stays."
Funny... 4/$52 and 3/$45 look pretty sweetened to me. Anyone want to kick Cash's ass for going 'back on his word'.
"New York said repeatedly that it would not negotiate with Rodriguez if he opted out."
That right... they will not negotiate. They will offer him "X"... take it or leave it. What exactly does negotiate mean?
What if ARod accepts arbitration? He made $27 this year and was MVP? $30m is probably a reasonable figure. So.... If ARod now has a 1 year contract, how about if the Yankees talk about a 'contract extension'?. Say... 7/$200m?
There are DOZENS of ways Cash and the Yankees can get around 'losing face'. And just how much face does one lose by signing the best player in the game?
I've said 100 times, I don't know if ARod wants back, but its possible. If he want back, he will be back. 100% guaranteed.
If we're resigned to having a "traditional" (read: lousy) number four and/or five starter, I'd much rather go with Karstens or DeSalvo than waste money or resources to acquire a bad pitcher.
"Most of this is about Alex trying to salvage his image," said another source close to the negotiations. "He's upset over the way this whole thing has played out and the way he's being portrayed now, because of Boras."
2 different sources saying the same thing.
78 My understanding is that Bill Madden was/is the mouthpiece for "undersirable" members of the Tampa Cabal. They have used him before to plant rumors for their own reasons, without regard for whether there was any truth to the rumor. (And of course the Boss did the same thing himself many times over the years.)
All other considerations aside - I don't trust anything from the Daily News that references an anonymous Yankee source of any kind. Not trustworthy, and so often wrong.
Dude, the guy was will to give up 28 MILLION to go to the Sox. He has already proved you wrong. Then he GAVE UP HIS POSITION TO DEREK JETER to be on a winner.
From CBS Sports, 12/18/2003.
The proposal from the Red Sox that the players' association rejected a day earlier would have cost Rodriguez $28 million, according to the team's evaluation, and $30 million, according to the union's analysis, Boras said.
Are you telling me I can look at ONE decision you made 8 years ago, and definitively know how you feel now?
Maybe someone can confirm, but I believe it is $21m. I think $9m is deferred, and Texas still eats it.
How about lifelong Yankee Crapheads Mo and Po? The just stole more then $21m 'out of the mouths of Yankees children'
How about a little hate for them?
http://tinyurl.com/24u8fu
I'm not going to begrudge the man his $$, but the situations are a bit different. I don't know Rodriguez's motives for opting out, nor do I really care, but on the surface it seems like a money grab on his and Boras' part.
Maybe he ALSO wanted an 8-10 year deal, and though this might be a good time to get that? Possible?
Maybe he is just doing the same thing that Mo, Po, JD Drew and 95% of all MLB players do. Get more money and more years when they have the leverage.
Again, I don't read minds and I haven't spoken to ARod in a few months now, so I don't know what's really on his mind. I can talk educated guesses, but I certainly can't say anything definitively.
Is paying $30m to ARod, an every day player, crazier then paying $15m to Mo for 80 innings in 2008? 2009? 2010?
We spend money to put a winning team on the field and ALSO to maintain having certain players.
63. This fan won't embrace A-Rod. He is a plague on team unity.
Anyone think IPK for Andy LaRoche and some equalizer would be a good trade?
As for MO and PO taking their time and squeezing the necks of their lifelong employers, thats what the yankees get for playing it safe and waiting for the off-season. There was a risk/reward determined, and cashman chose risk averse. it could have worked out either way, and this time it ended up working for the players. announcing that they wanted joba to be a starter before the rivera negotiations was stupid, but it was done, and he has them by the proverbial balls. andy wont say anything until rivera is signed, because among many personal things, it puts rivera in a tougher negotiation position, as they will have the flexibility to put joba anywhere they need.
Great minds and all that. =)
98 104 I'm not sure if these rumors are Boras-plants or not, but I do believe Boras/A-Rod would do anything to improve their leverage.
I will also be shocked if A-Rod returns.
And as for all the "he's dead to me" stuff, if he's back on the team next year, I will be thrilled.
In effect, maybe it's quite the reverse of what you say.
Personally, at this juncture, I don't think Boras/ARod can fool Cashman/Steinettes. I don't know if this is really going down, but I am NOT afraid that Cashman will let himself be used.
105 I agree. And Mo and Po using leverage to get more money/years is WHAT BASEBALL PALYERS DO. I have no problem with it. They had us by the balls, and they squeezed a bit.
My problem is the hatred ARod gets for doing the same thing, while Mo and Po will still be loved.
I don't like seeing people/players being demonized. I use Mo/Po simply as an example to show the 'selective' hatred ARod gets. If you accept,m without question, 2 lifelong, core Yankees doing this, they you should feel the same way about ARod.
Seems like he would cost the least in a trade (since the Cards would be looking for a salary dump) and we would always have Betemit as an insurance policy.
I agree with 103 , I think Rolen will be rockin' in 2008. I say we give him a shot to prove that he's got something left in the tank. Who knows, maybe we get another .300/.400/.600 seasib (like 2004) out of him. Heck, even if he goes .280/.375/.500 (career avg) that would probably be better than what Lowell does next year.
But his shoulder is a huge question mark.
Please give us a bad pun alert before you do that.
However, if Po had 2 yrs left on a contact for $11m with an opt-out clause, I guarantee he would have opted-out and gotten his 4/$52. The exact specifics of the situations are different, but the motivation is the same.
'GET MORE MONEY AND MORE YEARS WHENEVER YOU CAN'
Thats the bottom line. In that context, Mo, Po and ARod did the exact same things. The real difference is that Mo and Po should have more allegiance to the Yankees. But they were never going anywhere. Mo to the Dodgers? How silly is that?
So the Yankees shouldn't base their decisions on what they think he's thinking; they should base them on what they need and want. They could use a righty power-hitting third baseman.
"But a three-year, $45 million offer is so far unacceptable to the Rivera camp, which is said to be seeking $50 million for the closer's last long-term contract. Rivera turns 38 later this month, and he'd be 41 in the final year of his deal."
The highest paid reliever in baseball gets what? $12m? I love Mo but I thought 3/$45 was grossly overpaying him. Now he wants $50? Am I nuts... or is this really greedy?
How can you guys be so reactional to all this bullshit? Repeat after me.
"Johnny Damon will get 7/$100"
"Johnny Damon will get 7/$100"
"Johnny Damon will get 7/$100"
By the way, where did Damon end up anyway?
I'll again agree on Rolen; I think he'd be a great pickup regardless of whether another 3B is picked up (A-Rod or M-Cab or Lamb or no one or whoever the heck else). He could also be part of the mix at 1B, or in left. I'm all for picking up Righty Power on the cheap, and if he's an injury risk that's what the wads-o-cash are there to cover over. We're saving all this money after Clemens and A-Rod, but there are so few places to spend it, Rollen is obvious. Not only would he be cheaper & possibly shorter term than Lowell, the prospects required to get him would be less valuable than the 1st rounder we'd hand to the Red Sox for signing Lowell. I really think that draft pick is the biggest reason to avoid Lowell.
One dead horse is enough for today, I know. But I do think it's kind of ironic for the Yankees to take umbrage at his not being sufficiently classy, and for refusing to negotiate. (That's real irony, not Michael Kay irony.)
"10/$350m? Ha Ha Ha Hahahahahahahahahahah"
"10/$350m? Ha Ha Ha Hahahahahahahahahahah"
"10/$350m? Ha Ha Ha Hahahahahahahahahahah"
Look, I'd go into more detail, but Alyssa Milano and myself have to go pick up Pam Anderson and Jessica Biel, and a gallon jar of Viagra. So ya all later.
You keep quoting specifics of a given situation as if that makes a difference. 95% of ALL MLB contract nogotiations are about one thing:
MORE MONEY, MORE YEARS.
Everything else is bullshit.
MORE MONEY, MORE YEARS.
Mo, Po, JD Drew, Soriano, Zito, Meche, ARod, 95% of everyone else (except Bronson Arroyo... and look where it got him).
MORE MONEY, MORE YEARS.
(although winning does enter the equation... especially for the very rich).
But I do have a question, a fantasy-like question: What is the deadline for A-Rod to accept or reject arbitration after cash offers it? If Boras is feeling a bit spiteful for the yankees' refusal to participate in his Manifest Destiny plan, could he gain an ounce of leverage by having A-Rod accept arbitration and thus slow down or halt their other plans until they deal with him in one way or another, or is that too much of a political thriller?
138 Mike Hampton's a 5%er? Has he suddenly changed his name to Michael 13X Wise Intelligent and started walking around the streets confronting bad guys and cops and anyone else who "disrespects" him and his people and beaning people in the head with pocket-sized Qu'rans? Wowzers, I have been away from the world a while... (oh yeah, >;)
Nope, he was told if he opted out the Yankees were off the table. He walked. He can whine all he wants about being the same as MoPo but its not even close. Hell, MoPo had a more legitimate gripe in that they wanted to negotiate extensions in the spring and were turned down by the Yankees. A-Rod was just a schmuck. Hell of a baseball player and I used to love him, but he was a schmuck.
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