Baseball Toaster was unplugged on February 4, 2009.
The Yankees offered Joe Torre a one-year contract for $5 million. With that, Torre would make an extra million bucks for each round of the playoffs they Yankees won next year. Finally, there was a team option for 2009.
Joe turned them down.
Whatta ya hear, whatta ya say it ain't so Joe!
Joe turned it down! team moving forward quickly now...
I don't blame Joe, and I'm happy for Mattingly if he gets the job... even if these Steinbrothers are going to make his life miserable.
If it was a 'setup', that would explain why Cashman wasn't there. But I'm inclined to believe it wasn't a setup.
Glad Joe walked away from it ...
When is the last time any major league manager has taken a one year contract?
Steve Phillips is a buffoon. Now, managers should get multiple year deals when they fail? What world is he living in?
I doubt they will. Scioscia is still held as some jewel despite bumbling away his team's playoffs twice in four years.
37 From the Yankees' perspective, how can they realistically keep throwing 3-year deals at the guy if this is going to be the end result every season?
I understand why Joe walked away, but I can't see them offering him any much more than what they did.
Shoot, if the Maras and the Tischs could retain ownership of the Giants AND build a new stadium, no reason the Steinbrenners can't do the same thing.
Again, IMHO, the money is a red herring. Its the years.
Bottomline, if you wanted Joe gone you got your wish. Congratulations.
The team will be in good hands with Mattingly or Girardi, that's all that matters.
Remember '95? I have a similar queasy feeling in my gut, but hopefully it all works out for the best.
Just no Donnie.
And to say that Rookie pitchers and injuries caused this is silly. We won because of our rookies, not in spite of them. If Joe had his way we would have spent the entire season with spent washed up veteran free agents in our rotation. If you believe otherwise, you don't know Joe. If we spent 162 games with out pre-season rotation, we likely miss the playoffs altogether.
"Will Torre be back?
I think the answer is no. The team, I suspect, is looking at a way to extricate themselves from a sticky public opinion situation, and they may be canvassing potential managers to guarantee they have someone they want to fill the job. When that happens, they will offer Torre some odd FO job, putting the ball back in his court. He will then retire.
That's my prediction. "
OK, so in retrospect my prediction wasn't perfect, but it played out pretty close to what I thought. the Yankees made him an offer that he could (and probably would) refuse, and he did.
"The Yankees offered Torre a one-year deal with a base salary of $5 million and incentives that would have increased his salary to $8 million based on postseason performance. Under that offer, if Torre reached the World Series in 2008, an option for 2009 would have vested."
Sounds like exactly what everyone is speculating about - if he reached the WS in '08, he gets to come back in '09.
Of course, I imagine that part of the deal could always be changed.
Yikes. Can you say 'Santana'?
76 And all of them dealing with a new catcher to boot!
All I can say is, good luck to the next schnook who takes over.
78 Posada is far and away the best catcher in baseball right now, but handling pitchers has never been his strong suit. Hughes for example seemed to have much better pitch selection the one game he threw to Molina.
He has EXPERIENCE!
We only offer incompetent players multi-year deals.
You'll redefine 'insufferable'.
88 Agree - no Valentine please.
Batting 9th...the short stop...#2...Derek Jee-ter...#2.
If it was guaranteed 2 years at 5 or 6 mil, he'd probably have stayed.
Listening to Cashman, it seems as if his tone is thanks Torre for making me look like an ass.
I would think they gotta get this resolved before the A-Rod deadline.
Hey, maybe hire & fire Torre a couple of times.
71 Alex is right - Bobby V would at least be a show (the ship might sink during the performance, however) - but I'd sooner have Girardi than those two. Great coaches, but poor managers, each in their own way.
or maybe we could trade Farns for Willie...
I hope the heat stays on Cash for the foreseeable future.
111 I agree.
In all of this the Yanlees have come off looking e-v-i-l, and Torre looks like a saint. The former is not off the base, to be sure. The latter? Let's just say Torre is not, in my mind, the innocent lamb that he has been made out to be.
IIRC, even Bucky Dent got a two year deal way, way back in the day.
Something like this, right?
no playoffs=fired immediately
lose 3 consecutive postseason series=fired
fail to make WS after 4 years=fired
The question, to me, is does Joe get extra credit for 1996-00 when evaluating his 01-07 performance? If not, he deserves to go. If you add it all together, maybe he deserves more time. But another long-term contract? I'm doubtful.
Of course, it's possible that the manager should get credit simply for making the postseason. For most teams, this would seem obvious. But the Yanks are unique in this respect....All in all I don't think Joe's a bad manager, and I like him a lot. But I do think that his defenders fail to consider that expectations of a post YES network Yankee managers are LEGITIMATELY unique. Standards are legitimately different.
Given who he's working for, and the environment he's working in, I can't blame him.
"VERO BEACH, Fla. -- Grady Little, the Dodgers' surprising hire as manager more than a year ago, was rewarded Tuesday for last season's on-field turnaround with a one-year contract extension."
Oh, and the next paragraph:
"Little's original contract was for two years plus an option for 2008. The club guaranteed that option and added a 2009 option. His annual salary has been estimated at $600,000, which would be in the bottom quarter of all managers, with Yankees manager Joe Torre's $7.5 million at the top."
So, the Yankees did nothing unprecedented in their offer.
This is not out of any sympathy for Torre, as I've frequently stated I was fine with a change this year. But at some point other people have to be held accountable. Pay scale has nothing to do with how accountable someone is -- if Cashman were living off an inheritance and working for free, I'd still want him gone if the team tanks in 2008.
By the way, how much security does a multi-millionaire need? And wouldn't he expect to be scooped up almost immediately if fired?
Ummm...wouldn't this have been a one year extension?
139 FWIW, I don't think the Yanks disrespected Torre.
140 I don't think I'm going to get you to open your eyes on this, so I'm going to stop trying.
A distinction without a difference. 149 you are dead right.
Look, as a legal matter, you cannot extend a contract that has expired. The old contract is up. Poof. Gone. An extension, by definition, has to occur during the pendancy of the existing deal.
If you are going to get technical, Torre is still under contract until the end of the World Series, so his old contract has not yet expired. Regardless, it's all semantics.
Torre's first deal: 2 years (96-97)
Torre's next deal: 3 years (signed in 2/97, negating the second year of the original deal) (97-99)
Torre's next deal: 2 years (00-01)
Torre's next deal: 3 years (02-04)
Torre's next deal: 3 year extension (05-07)
New offer: 1 year
I do not think Joe Torre was insulted.
I do not think Joe Torre is a victim.
I do not think Joe Torre is in need of financial security*.
*Especially because his 3 year extension signed in April 2004 includes a 6-year consulting agreement
I do see why Joe Torre turned down this offer.
And, by the way - who signs an extension with a lesser salary? If I was being signed to a contract extension, I'd expect to see my salary stay the same, or go up - not down.
Sports is about the only sector of the economy in which this has been true for the past six years. The fact is that Joe's offer was actually in line with what is going on everywhere else in the private sector.
if the proposed extension included that kind of language, it could have very well helped form joe's decision to turn down the offer ...
my take is this: they had no intention of firing him but respected him enough to let him go w/ dignity, so they came up with this plan; this way torre gets the last word, stein and gang don't look as evil, etc.
what is next though? the anticipation is killing me.
You said no one accepts a one year coaching contract, excluding extension. You state that Torre's offer was a one year, new contract. Ergo, the offer was (naturally) unacceptable to Torre.
I countered that we should not envision the offer as a one year, new contract because 1] his current contract is not up, and 2] in any case the situation is de facto a contract extension. If we envision this as an extension, not a new contract, then your assertion that no coaches are offered one year contracts is rendered moot.
Or mute. ; )
That said, I am STUNNED!
Yes, the 1 yr. term and the paycut are somewhat insulting, but JT knew there were issues and the FO wasn't real happy. All in all, it was not the best, but a decent deal, circumstances considered.
I guess Torre's ego is bigger and more bruised then I thought. Considering this is the Stadium's last year, I would have thought Joe would have 'reluctantly' taken the deal.
I guess he didn't was to manage the Yankees that badly.
I'm very bummed. VERY BUMMED! I hope this team does not get too screwed.
Assuming Cashman was instrumental in getting this offer made to Joe, I wonder if he holds any ill will toward Torre? After sticking his neck out for Joe last season, would it have killed Torre to swallow his pride and take an incentive-laden deal?
Levine emphasized that Torre would have remained the highest-paid manager in baseball, and said that it was a fair offer. Levine said there would have been no other conditions placed upon his return, such as a change in coaching staff, simply a different salary. Since Torre has not spoken on his reasons for turning the offer down, it's not clear what was the breaking point. The fact that it was only a one-year deal could have been the breaker.
Bottom line is that the team made an honest effort to bring Joe back on what they thought were fair terms. Joe didn't like it so he left the deal on the table. I love Mo, but he really can't play for another manager (which he'll have to anyways most likely)? He doesn't respect and like Mattingly or Girardi?
"'It is difficult, near impossible, to accept a salary cut,' Boras said. 'Successful people can afford their principles. They understand if they accept the position, there is a great risk the message to all under him is dissatisfaction.'"
The offer was arguably fair, but it was also arguably not the best that could have been made to someone with Joe's track record. The guy declined it, life goes on. You got your wish -- we have a new manager. Why keep s***ting on him on his way out?
If they don't want to show the Yankees some allegiance, then good riddance.
In fact, I think this would be a great way to stick it to Pavano, should he ever pitch against the Yanks. Have Alyssa Milano sing the National Anthem! In the spirit of bringing joy here, I give you: http://tinyurl.com/yq7zhc (may be NSFW, depending on where you work)
203 I would watch BBTN again if Joe was on it. I would also pay money to see him flash his rings in Steve Phillips' face - frequently. Say, five times each half hour. "Well you know, Steve, when you've won the World Series 4 times like I have . . ."
I did present a counterargument, and you responded with an insult -- which pretty much says it all about you.
Dear god, let it be her shirt!
You're a saint, Shaun P.
Also, I would have offered Joe one year at the same salary. It's pocket change to the Yankees, it's still just one year, and then people can't claim too much disrespect.
"And, also, that just because you're 6-foot-5 and 260 pounds, it doesn't mean you're big all over."
(She later clarified that she was talking about his hands. Uh-huh.)
Needless to say, we disagree on what kind of moral ground the various players in this drama stand on based on existing speculation, but ultimately I don't really care. Joe is gone, we can both agree its time for a new direction, and hopefully discuss the substance of those matters (resignings, a new manager, etc).
I'm flabbergasted at that logic. They didn't even have to fire him. They didn't even need to make an announcement. He's a free agent! They could just say thanks and go ahead and start interviewing. Instead, they offer him another year at a completely retarded pay level, completely above and beyond the market rate even for a genius, and it's an insult?
Some people are just looking for something to whine about. How did you feel about Bernie leaving?
230 Do you think that is a low enough offer? I'm not worried about the shirt's dignity, just that it refuses the offer and leaves.
223 Do you think if mention that she's a huge Dodgers fan some of the DT guys will appear? =)
If by "job" you mean "as manager", right now, the other team with an opening is the Pirates, and I just don't see that happening.
Joe, I'll miss you, but go Yanks in 2008 and beyond.
Finally, it needs to be pointed out that Joe Torre will be 69. At most, a 2-year deal would make sense. In other words, the Yankees came up one guaranteed year short (and that second year would have vested at $8mn for making the World Series).
"This is a team that makes it policy not to include incentive clauses in player contracts."
I haven't checked Cot's to see if this is true or not, but if so, wow.
OK, now I looked, and Matsui was given a performance bonus; Kyle was given a bonus (may earn additional $0.5M annually if he leads club in Rolaids relief points); Igawa got a performance bonus (# may earn $0.5M annually in performance bonuses * $0.125M each for 180, 190, 200 & 210 IP); Villone got performance bonuses in 05-06 ($1.1M in performance bonuses; $0.1M based on appearances; $1M bonus for making 30 start).
And I think that's it. A-Rod has bonuses, but obviously the Yanks didn't sign him to that deal.
249 Shoot, Maier is out of college now, he might be lurking over the outfield fence.
I wish Torre well, he has served the Yanks with class and he gave me so much joy that I will always hold him in extremely high regard.
He will probably be the best Yankee manager in my lifetime, and I have a long way to go before I pass. I hope!!!
When you look at all he has done in the past 12 years, then another manager from here on out will have a mountain to climb in order to achieve the same level of success.
Mr.T, THANKS FOR THE MEMORIES!!!!
Wil Nieves is a free agent.
I wonder if Torre's declining will make him reluctant to re-sign here?
I didn't think they'd offer more than one year anyway. Well, there's only 4 pieces left from the dynasty (Mo, Po, Jete, Andy)....
Oh and BTW, I'd take Girardi over Mattingly.
Of course, I have no idea who I pick.
the idea that torre is a victim here is totally absurd. anyone who sees it that way should be ashamed of themselves. how crazy do things have to be when a person who is offered $5 million + gets sympathy for being low-balled? this is a guy who had tears in his eyes just thinking about not being here next year. considering all the blunders he's made, he was lucky to get this kind of offer.
when bernie williams had a $16 million or so option for 2006, the yankees turned it down and gave him a $1 million 1 year contract. when mussina had a huge option for this year they renegotiated with him. it's a little different because as players their physical abilities were fading. but is it that different than this situation? torre has, by the yankees' standards, underperformed in his last few years as manager. he has not taken the team deep into the postseason, and he has made highly questionable decisions in the process. he has worn down relievers, he has insulted star players, he has not done the best he could do. it is totally understandable that the yankees would want to rework his contract so that he would be making something more reasonable, something closer to the his actual market value. AND THEY STILL OFFERED HIM MORE MONEY THAN ANYONE HAS A RIGHT TO MAKE IN HIS LIFETIME.
i'm sorry, but this media spin is absurd. this is a fucked up world when people making the most money are insulted by slight pay cuts. i loved joe torre the person the whole time he was here. he was always classy, always respectable. but this is not classy whatsoever. this is pure greed. fuck joe torre, we'll go get someone who knows what he's doing during a game.
no one is owed millions of dollars. certainly not a baseball manager.
265 I would like to see Mattingly go to the minors before he becomes the manager. I would actually prefer Pena over Bowa if that is the only choice, but I don't want a fire as soon as things become rough manager.
i say girardi.
You are up in arms because if you were offered 5 million dollars then you'd take that job, so it is relative. What is relative to you is different than for someone like Torre who has made that and more, it was about the message being sent from the organization's higher ups. He knew that would make him powerless in a clubhouse full of superstars - look at this poor sap, he took a cut in pay and is being forced to live up to incentives.
Here it is: http://tinyurl.com/2q4ynp
Wow, I hadn't even thought of that. I know they've gotten along well in the past. I sure as shit hope Cash warned him.
2007 MLB manager salaries
Clint Hurdle, COL $800,000 - in '07 World Series
Charlie Manuel, PHI $800,000 - '07 NL East champs
Willie Randolph, NYM $700,000 - '06 NL East champs
Jerry Narron, CIN $600,000
Grady Little, LAD $600,000 - '06 NL Wild Card, '03 AL Wild Card
Sammy Perlozzo, BAL $600,000
Ron Washington, TEX $600,000
Joe Maddon, TAM $550,000
John Gibbons, TOR $500,000
Manny Acta, WAS $500,000
Bob Geren, OAK $500,000
Total for 11 managers - $6.8 million dollars
'Disrespected' Joe Torre, NYY - $7.5 million dollars
"ugh. money is always relative? what the fuck does that mean?"
Well... I guess if it's NOT relative and 5+M is more then enough money, we should offer ARod 5.1M (the 0.1M being motivation incentive).
Randy Levine seems even slimier now. Yuck.
Pay cuts are not insults if your employer thinks you haven't met your performance goals. Maybe it's unfair to expect the manager to win a playoff series over the past three season? Perhaps...while it may be a lofty standard, I just don't get the "insult" part.
I don't agree that he has 'clearly' not performed up to their standards. I suppose if you thought you'd been performing up to standards and someone told you you hadn't, you would think that was an insult. In fact, that seems to me glaringly obvious.
So, now. WHO SHOULD REPLACE HIM?
sounds eerily like a line from the 6th Harry Potter.
I don't think the Yankees should simply ordain a candidate. I think they need to do an extensive search and pick the man whose philosophy best matches the organization's.
I'm way late to the party and have yet to read a single response, but oh my God.
I don't know quite what to say. This leaves me speechless.
Joe turned them down?
That must mean he's really done.
My heart wants him to stay and my head thinks it's time for him to move on.
314 this is a decent point. technically he is rejecting a lot of money, so it isn't greedy. the greedy part is that he is saying that he deserves more money from the yankees than what they offered him. if he didn't think that, he wouldn't be so insulted.
Actually, if you're over 18 and haven't read the 6th HP by now, you probably never will.
Is the basic point that this move is definitive and Joe's really truly gone, or is there some gamesmanship at work?
But yeah, Joe's gone, no doubt about it.
Beckett's stuff looks pretty good...on a related note, that 15-day DL stint may have been a blessing in disguise if it helped keep him fresh in the post season.
"only a 2-hitter by Beckett so far
Is there a greater postseason pitcher than Beckett."
I'm going to have to go with Mariano Rivera, for one.
One quote: "On September 8, 2007, he announced that he would resign at the end of the season in order to spend more time with his family."
I wonder if his family would be down with him entering the zoo.
334 Yankz, there is so much I would like to tell you, but I cannot.
I realize it's only Joe (hopefully only him) leaving, but if I see him in a another uni, I just may wish well for his team. Depending on where he goes of course.
It's all about the laundry. Ask Vandelay Industries, he'll explain it.
It's been a dozen years. Even for a 60-year old, that's 20% of his life. It deserves a happy ending.
I rooted for Andy when he was an Astro. I'd root for Jeter or Mo if they sign with the Sox. But I draw the line after them.
Ahhhhh... no need to answer. I'm getting carried away, but sometimes I wonder where the line is drawn when rooting for a team.
Look, I wanted Shelley Duncan to win the WS this year. Didn't you?
Shelley didn't win the WS. So, are we to conclude, then, that Shelley didn't perform up to expectations?
As a matter of fact, I think it's nuts to hold a manager responsible for winning a WS.
The point of the example wasn't that Shelley is expendable! My point works just as well if you substitute A-Rod for Shelley. Didn't you want him to win the WS? And he didn't. So, he underperformed... uh, no. Obvious non sequitur. Okay, so, he's expendable? Uh, no. Obvious non sequitur.
how are they saying that this replay is not conclusive? it clearly hits off the corner of the wall and bounces back onto the field.
I'm not enjoying this game (the actual baseball one, not the bantering!) at all. I'm going off to do something else now.
Cheers, friends! :)
Btw, is Boston fighting for their season right now?
(I'm buried in the middle ages these days.)
anyway, maybe their expectations instead are that he makes consistently intelligent in-game decisions. if those are their expectations, he has failed to meet them.
Mo's comment: "The Yankees are one of 30 teams now."
Personally, I think a small crack has developed in the dike.
is he insulted by the incentives? maybe. but is it unfair to put incentives on making the postseason? why? they want him to lead the yankees to the world series. if he does that, he will make a ton of extra money.
again, he can only be insulted by this offer if he feels that he is entitled to what he had been making. otherwise he would take it as a wonderful offer, considering the team that he leads has failed to perform in the way the front office expects, and that he is still being offered considerably more than any other manager in the game.
368 mariano is my favorite player. but if he really means this, he is completely wrong.
If Mo goes, Jorgie might follow. If Jorgie goes...
I can't believe it's come to this.
Oh please, God, let's not go out like that.
The organization should kiss Joe's ass, plead on bended kneee for him to stay.
I don't like where this is going...
I'm not saying he's duty-bound to stay on behalf of us fans, but for Christ's sake, a little recognition would be nice.
One of thirty teams, indeed.
let's say you're the president of a car company. as such, you make $700 million a year. over twice as much as the next-highest-paid car company president. you love your car company and all the people under you. but over the last 7 years other car companies have outperformed yours. you think you've done everything possible to dominate the car market. your contract is up, and your bosses tell you that they want you to stay, but they offer you a $500 million contract with $300 million in incentives if you lead the company to the top of the car industry. this salary is still considerably higher than the salary of any other car company president. is that unreasonable? is it so unreasonable that you would not take the offer out of principle?
If Torre ushered Yankee Stadium out, and we had Mo, Po, Arod and Andy locked up, would it have been that big a deal to let him go after this year?
I am sick to my stomach. This reminds me of the past 'dark years', when petty bickering and petty minds in the FO made decisions that threw the franchise under the bus.
While Willy, Mat and 51cq24 celebrate, I simply wonder if the Yankees, as we know them, will survive.
If the next manager is the 2nd coming, we go from PS losers to PS winners. That's the best that can happen. Wanna have a thread on the worst that can happen?
This is a sad day for NY.
372 373 I don't think Mo or Posada will go, I think it will just be more expensive to keep them. And I think that the FO was quite surprised by Torre's reaction and will make an effort to make it clear that there isn't a route coming (I hope).
But if they do leave, and A-Rod and Pettitte as well, where does that leave us? It's not good, but it's not the end of the world. It probably means a 3rd place team next year, but who knows after that? It could give us the chance to get kids in there, something that we have had good success with over the past 3 years.
The only thing that would make me truly freak out is if Mo/Po/A-Rod/Pettitte leave and the FO freaks out and trades prospects for washed up free agents. Then we are in the wilderness for 5+ years, and that I refuse to think about.
Come to think of it, OYF, please go find more pictures like in 370 , I need to take my mind off what i just wrote.
"There just isn't a way to spin this where the Yankees look anything but awful. There is no way you make Torre this offer and expect him to take it. And if he does, he is coming back like a beaten dog, so his leadership is undermined. Just horrendous.
The Yankees have a long history of callousness and disrespect for their players. After the 1957 season, Mickey Mantle actually had a better year than 1956 but he didn't win the Triple Crown, so the Yankees tried to cut his pay. They unceremoniously dismissed Casey Stengel to start the team's downward spiral in 1960. Yogi Berra wouldn't set foot in Yankee Stadium for years after ill treatment by Steinbrenner. They fired Bucky Dent in Boston. And so on
But this one ranks with any of them.
Joe Torre did exactly what he should have done with this offer, he told the Yankees to stick it where the sun don't shine. Joe Torre is the picture of dignity and class, as he has always been.
The Yankees look like idiots, but of even deeper concern is that, in recent years, they haven't been doing business in this way. If this is the way the Steinbrenner Bobsie Twins are going to run this business, we have rough times ahead. The Yankees had once become a team where players didn't want to play. Now, everyone wants to play for the Yankees. If we're going back to the days of handling the organization in this way, we'll find that a lot fewer players want to come here."
Is the success of a baseball team comparable to that of a widget company?
I'd need to be convinced...
I don't like the blow-it-all-up approach. As a fan, I find the prospect traumatic.
"We won't talk until November. Andy may or may not play next year. Joe was and is a special person to Andy."
Joe Torre got run out of pinstripes by two guys who couldn't pick Phil Hughes out of a lineup. One of their vice presidents is Felix Lopez, a landscaper who had the good fortune to marry Steinbrenner's daughter.
Meanwhile Randy Levine grabbed every second of airtime he could on the conference call today. This is the same guy who gathered the writers during spring training and tried to get us to do a story on all his accomplishments. Nobody was interested.
The power over baseball operations Brian Cashman gained had started to slip away. Hank Steinbrenner "insists" that Joba Chamberlain be a starter. Thanks for the input, Branch Rickey. Can't wait to see what he insists happens next.
I feel sicker every hour that passes.
This whole affair reeks with bad Karma.
Sorry for the long post to follow, but I believe this is the biggest event/upheaval for the Yankees in decades.
I don't know if it's standard 'hatred' or these guys really don't get it, but 51cq24, William and everyone else who thinks the $5m was a good offer, should check these videos out, and see what some fairly knowledgable others (most of whom get paid way less then $5m) have to say.
Mo and Po are absolutely coming back if Joe stays. Since Andy said he was feeling very good (physically) I think he would have come back for another shot at a WS. I think ARod now likes and respects Torre, but that alone won't effect his decision that much, aside from the aspect of the organization's 'dysfunctional' behavior.
I do believe the Red Sox want him badly (as a SS no less) and would be happy to overpay him to have him. Not only as a great player, but the ultimate slap in the Yankee's face (which it would certainly be). I wonder if Theo might dial a wrong number (oh gee, how did that happen) and 'accidentally' speak to Boras within that 10 day window.
At the end of this year, I though we had a VERY strong team coming into 2008. It was basically the same leam that lead MLB in wins the second half, with a more seasoned and usable Hughes, Joba and IPK, as well as a winter to tweak the BP and 1st base. While are 1-2 would still not be considered elite, our 1-4 (Wang, Andy, Philip, Joba) looks to be one of the best in baseball.
Now I fear that 2008 and beyond may be in jeopardy. I don't know who will be the first one the Yanks negotiate with (ARod, Mo or Po), but I think it absolutely CRUCIAL that the first is signed. I think the Yanks go FAST for Po with something like $45m/3. Mo will need a LOT of 'respect' for a fast signing, in the area of $42m/3.
But if they negotiate with the 1st and DON'T sign him, it could start a chain reaction.
As much as I respect and even like (a little bit) Big George for his emotional and financial committment to winning, and the fact that I know he has done many charity acts over the years, I simply can't forgive many of the atrocious things he did pre-Torre.
While I am/was a BIG Torre supporter, I am a Yankees fan first. I loved Joe simply because even with all his BP and lineup mistakes, that he is/was far and away the best man for this team and this city.
Even without Torre, I simply want this team back, with a great opportunity to get a ring. If this 'affair' ends up deconstructing this team, it will be a horrid flashback to those terrible years of the 70's thru 1995.
There are some here who wanted Torre out because he 'only' brought up to the PS 7 times in the last 7 years, but no rings to show for it. They wanted Torre gone so we COULD WIN the WS. Yet now, in light of possible unwanted changes (no Mo, Po, Andy and/or ARod), all of a sudden they are Mannyish in a 'so what, it ain't so bad' kind of way.
So I ask: Is there ANYONE here who thinks if we lose any combination or Mo, Po, Andy and/or ARod, that we will do better in 2008 then in 2007? That losing either of 2 LIFETIME YANKEE GREATS is just par for the doin' business course?
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