Baseball Toaster was unplugged on February 4, 2009.
"Man, I'm just happy to do something special like that. I'm not trying to show up anybody out there. I'm just trying to go have fun. If somebody strike me out and show me up, that's part of the game, I love it. I like that. I like to compete, and when people strike me out and show me up, it's all good. It's not a hard feeling. I ain't trying to go out there and show anybody up."Manny Ramirez
Reggie Jackson spoke to a group of reporters in the Yankee dugout last week before Game 4 of the ALDS. Initially, he talked about Alex Rodriguez, but soon, he was talking about himself. He recalled how he used his large ego to help him succeed in the playoffs. He talked about how tough Fausto Carmona's sinker was against the Yankees in Game 2, and then about how daunting it was facing Tom Seaver, Jerry Koosman and John Matlack in the 1973 World Series.
Eventually, someone brought up Manny Ramirez, and Jackson smiled. "Did you see that?" said Jackson referring to Ramirez's game-winning home run in Game 2 of the Red Sox series against the Angels. Jackson mimicked Manny's celebration at home plate and cracked everybody up.
Clearly, Reggie admires Manny. He likes the chutzpah, he likes Manny's flakiness. ("How can you be offended by Manny?" he suggested.) Mostly, he likes the fact that nothing fazes Manny and that Manny hits bombs. How much better can it get?
Ramirez, who has been ridiculously locked-in at the plate this October, pulled his usual home run schtick the other night even though the Red Sox were losing 7-3. Mike Lowell wasn't sold on the routine, but most of the Indians didn't seem to mind. Nobody really cares because it's just part of Ramirez's make-up, because showboating is an accepted part of the game, and because, like Reggie, most players simply admire Ramiez's talent.
Yesterday, Manny told reporters:
"We're not going to give up," he said. "We're just going to go, play the game and move on. If it doesn't happen, so who cares? It's always next year. It's not like the end of the world."
Now, how do you bother somebody with that kind of attitude? Perhaps you can't.
I was talking to the baseball writer Pat Jordan the other day and suggested that CC Sabathia should brush Ramirez off the plate--not hit him necessarily, just give him something to think about.
"No, that won't work. You can't outsmart a dumb guy."
Then Jordan, who pitched in the minor leagues for close to three years, told me a story.
"There was a game in the Midwest League, 1960, where I faced Jimmy Ray Hart, who was a dumb guy. There were two out in the first inning. I had walked the bases loaed and struck two guys out, which is the way it went for me. Hart comes up and he's a dead fastball hitter. The count goes to 3-2. I'm throwing him nothing but fastballs. So I decide to throw him an overhand curve, figuring that even if it bounces in the dirt there is no way he'll be able to lay off it. So I throw a curve, a good one. It falls right off the table and is at his ankles and Hart rips it over third base for a double. My manager comes to take me out and as I'm leaving I turn to Hart and say, 'Hey, Jimmy, how the f*** were you sitting on a curve ball?' And Hart says, 'Curve ball? Hey, was that a curve ball?'"
"The secret to a dumb guy is that you can't guess along with him. They are irrational and there is no way to predict what they are thinking. You can outsmart a smart guy because you can figure out a smart guy's intelligence and then outguess him. But you can't outsmart a dumb guy like Manny."
Sabathia has been wild in both of his October starts this year. He didn't want any part of Ramirez in Game 1. It will be interesting to see if he challenges Ramirez tonight. On thing seems certain though; he won't get in Manny's head.
Dusting or drilling him won't make a difference, hell, you may wind up upsetting him. If he's real dumb, I don't think you would want to make him mad, he's liable to do something stupid that will get someone hurt.
OK, ok, it's kind of a strained analogy, but it was the first thing I thought of when I read Jordan's comments.
I think he's more fearless than dumb.
I thank the Good Lord for not making him a Yankee.
8 Probably because hitting him doesn't work, just adds to his OBP (career .409; he doesn't need any help in that dept.). And as potent as the Red Sox lineup can be, do you really want to add unecessary baserunners?
No matter what, though, the dude is entertaining.
BTW, agree with 8 , we should pitch him inside more.
like intentionally throwing a baseball 90 mph at someone?
5 why do people romanticize the old school tough guy game? is it good that people like bob gibson would potentially end manny's career just because he stands and watches his home runs? i agree that it is showboating and annoying, but in the end who really cares? his showboating doesn't add to their score. throwing a baseball at someone is not such a great thing. maybe we've gotten more civilized than that.
the problem with baseball now, i think, is that with all the armor hitters can stand right in the strike zone and are still awarded 1st base if a ball grazes their elbow pad. i don't think the solution is to take away their armor, the solution is to make a rule that says that when a hitter is hit by a ball within a foot or so of the strike zone, it's just a ball (or strike if it's a strike, which does sometimes happen).
and by the way, i don't see any evidence of him being dumb.
I think this hilarious clip from earlier in the season shows a bit of Manny's bizarrely endearing qualities:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmFX_RGX0hU
On the other hand, I do think that such behavior shows poor taste and poor sportsmanship, and I do think that there is still a place for such atiquated values in the professional game. To encourage more sportsmanlike behavior, the league would simply need to introduce penalties for unsportsmanlike conduct. The tough part would be what sort of penalties--would they include game penalties (loss of a base, automatic out, ejection, etc.) or non-game penalties (suspensions, fines, etc.).
I also don't buy that Manny is so dumb or childlike or unaware as his apologists say. It is pretty easy to tell spontaneous celebration in sport from more or less scripted or even ritual showboating.
Smart, dumb, whatever, the fact of the matter is the guy is unfazed about anything. That's sort of different than not caring in my opinion. He cares, he just isn't rattled by anything. Perfect player for a place like Boston or New York.
Penalty= fastball up around his coconut...
If Beckett can do it to Ryan Howard in a Spring Training game, there's no reason why Manny shouldn't be fair game.
how would you like having a hard object thrown 90 mph at your head? you're talking about risking serious injury here because of showboating.
"I starting telling myself 'Why are you so nervous? This is supposed to be fun. What's the worst thing that could happen? If you lose, you'll be back home in Colorado hunting elk.'" - Goose Gossage
"I think about the cosmic snowball theory. A few million years from now the sun will burn out and lose its gravitational pull. The earth will turn into a giant snowball and be hurled through space. When that happens it won't matter if I get this guy out." - Bill Lee
12 Besides, once the pitcher throws the ball, he has nothing to defend himself with. The hitter, however, still has the bat. Ask Jose Offerman, or Juan Marichal or Bert Campaneris what they're liable to do with that bat... And for what?
Winning the WS is so flukey. You can't judge your team a failure for getting beat in the playoffs. You come back out next time and try again.
There's a great quote that I love so much I have it tattooed on me and I think it's a more eloquent way of saying what Manny is trying to articulate:
"A man is not finished when he is defeated
A man is finished when he quits."
http://tinyurl.com/342g3l
If the comments were coupled with a lack of effort, then I'd see a problem. But to put things in perspective like Manny did, I see nothing wrong with that.
Manny is pretty near the bottom of the list of guys in baseball who bother me.
"A man is an a-hole when he celebrates his defeat."
I think he's a great hitter, but all that "Manny being Manny" stuff gets under my skin.
At least save the showboating for a "game winner", not a "brought us to within four runs-er"...
A Red Sox fan loved Manny and Big Papi so much that he got their faces tattooed on his butt (one player on each cheek). He just had to show his new body art to his friend (who was a Yankee fan). The friend's response: "That one on the left kinda looks like Manny and that one on the right sorta looks like Papi... but that one in the middle is a dead ringer for Youkilis..."
I can promise you that Manny isn't intending to "show up" anyone when he does these things, its just who he is. A lot lot lot of people hated Paul O'Neil for his "act," yet we as Yankee fans loved it. Just enjoy watching one of the greatest right handed hitters ever to play the game. Ever.
But I would agree with 29 Beckett is the type of insufferable, holier than thou, I play the game the right way and you don't no matter what I actually do, type of player that drives me insane. That is being an A-hole, and baseball is filled with them...
35 Joba turns his back to the hitter when he does the fist pump. It is clearly a spontaneous celebration of his own success.
O'Neill took out his frustrations on water coolers and other equipment, which could never be mistaken for opponents.
Big difference between that and Manny's tired act which could still easily be perceived as upstaging/grandstanding etc. no matter how he explains it.
I think if you're offended by him, you're taking him too seriously, and that's thinking about him the wrong way.
P.S. Manny is like my favorite player.
Perhaps you should consider the unendearing qualities of others that you consider assholes, then you could select common personality failings and compile a Grand Unified Theory of Assholism!
Now that I think about it... wouldn't it have actually been better to substitue Paplebon (ol' "Preparation H"-mouth himself) in for Youkilis in my joke (maybe you could use Youk in place of Willie in your joke)?
After submitting this comment I don't intend to waste another brain cell on Manny today, let alone define for you, or his fans why I consider him an a-hole. I think you and them know exactly where I'm coming from even if you disagree.
You have some beef with me, cult? Are you doggin' me for some reason?
If the disincentives don't work, and I don't see how they could with Manny (I got a car to sell in Atlantic City) Ramirez. In the end the fans would be the only ones to lose out. Do you really want to reject one of the great hitters of our era from the game for essentially peripheral and relatively harmless reasons? We let steroid takers, greenie poppers, wife beaters, and drunk drivers stick around.
I'm not a fan of Manny's Muhammad Ali pose - but his dedication to the art of hitting and of having a clear mind at the plate is extraordinary. I don't suggest to know what he is thinking, but what if he is thinking, "wow, something special just happened!" In some kinds of Buddhism that sort of beginners mind and happiness is the whole goal. Do we really want to throw a baseball at the head of someone like that?
Prepare to groan: Maybe we can learn from Manny to have more delight.
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