2 things....

1 - when is torre's job NOT on the line in big stein's mind?!

2- and this is an honest question, not a smart-ass one... does a team actually have a say in whether an ump can officiate for them? i would think not...

1 It reads stronger than it really is- the article says the guy is retiring so he won't be umpiring ANY games. George's comment almost makes it seem like the Yankees are going to Luco Brasi the guy.

Welcome to the Banter YC

1 , 2 The only way he could umpire any more of their games is if they made it to another round of the playoffs. So what George is really saying is he doesn't think the Yankees are going any further???

It's really not news that Joe is toast if they lose..since 2004, it's amazing how he's held on. I think this is George just trying to pump out what life he has left to light a fire under the team, somehow.

With that said, Piniella really looked impressive managing those heavy favorite Cubs, didn't he?

4 Or maybe he really is going to be sleeping with the fishes?

4 Actually, he'll ump the game tonight. The crews travel with the series in the postseason.

7 You're absolutely right. I should know that.

Also I think there are different crews for the next two rounds.

Common people... think about it.
1) Of all years, this is the year Torre is most likely to win "Manager of the Year"

EVERYONE wrote this team off. There are dozens of "NO Chance" quotes from 'reknown' writers. We set records for rookie pitchers debuts, we have serious injury problems early on. This was a BANNER YEAR for Torre. His hardest and his best.

Just imagine Lou, or someone else at the helm when we were 21-29. You think we would be in the PS now?

George is smart. He would NOT make an announcement like that if it would hurt the team. No owner is his right mind (although is that an issue for George?) would make a statement like that at this point in time.... unless.....
Can YOU think of a better way to light a fire under Clemen's ass, no less Jeter's, Posada's, and everyone elses then to threaten Torre's job?

Maybe Torre will go. And while sitting Giambi and other moves are questionable, our 2 loses so far are primarily on the shoulders of (1) Bugs (2) Wang (3) Posada and Matsui (4) The WHOLE DAMN OFFENSE!

So maybe Torre will go, just because it might be in time. But EVERYONE on the Yankee team credits Torre for holding this team together, when they themselves didn't really believe they would make the PS.

10 I'm with you. Torre's not responsible for these two losses.

But it's been a long time for George, and he might feel change is necessary.

I just like the fact that George feels like he needs to light a fire under everyone's ass. Good ol' George. Glad to see he's still kickin.

yes, torre's job seems to always be on the line. i wonder if vets like jeter, mo and jorgie would/could lobby for JT to stay. i keep seeing if he goes, so would guidry, pena and bowa. i can understand guidry going. i like pena as a base/catcher coach. i'd have less reservations w/ bowa at the helm than girardi/mattingly/other.

if guidry goes, i'm down w/ dave eiland stepping up. i think it's more the talent of the arms that are/were in our system, but he seemed to well harnessing them.

yeah, as far as the umps, that was classic Boss! everyone knows froemming is retiring, big stein just wanted to phrase it like he had some say in the matter. as if. if teams were actually able to pick and choose the umpiring team, laz diaz, cb bucknor and especially angel hernandez, would be outta work.

well, fuck it, let's just go out and win.

GO YANKS!!!

I think it's time to change managers, regardless of the outcome of this divisional playoff series. The Yanks need someone with some fire, like Joe Girardi, especially since the team is now getting younger. Torre has never been good with young players. They usually just rot on his bench. Just look at what happened to Shelly Duncan this year! And at the risk of being excommunicated from the A-Rod love-in that Bronx Banter is known for, I say let A-Rod leave. Do we need any more evidence that his body of work in the playoffs is terrible, consistently? Spend the A-Rod money more wisely on what is becoming a phenomenal minor league system! That having been said, Go Yankees! And I have high hopes for a three-game winning streak against the Indians!

Nice to hear from the old Boss again vs the filtered Boss via the PR flack. That said, Torre isn't the reason why this team isn't winning this series. The offense didn't come thru the first night, and the bullpen sukced in game 1 and 2 (except for MO); Jaba threw 2 wild pitches in that inning while the Indians' shut the Yanks down. I'm tired of the excuses. Play, win, or go home already. I'm hoping they win. Go Yanks!!

Torre has proven himself to be the best man for the job when it comes to relating to his players and keeping spirits up, etc. case in point: the 2nd half of this season. The injuries and slumps of the first couple months were not his fault, but he had a lot to do with getting them to the post-season. I know he has a lot of trouble managing the bullpen, but it is the players that blew it on thursday and friday, not joe.

14 What happened to Shelley Duncan?

Also, who plays 3B next year? More importantly, where do you get 54 HR and 156 RBI? The minor leagues?

Give me a break Mr. Yankz. What is Torre's reputation with younger players? How many HR's and RBI's has A-Rod hit in the playoffs? The Diamondbacks and Rockies don't have anyone with that kind of firepower, and they are in the NLCS. Are you telling me that the only way the Yanks make the playoffs next year is if A-Rod is back? If that's the case, then Cashman should be fired, as well, because it is foolish to build your team around a great slugger who never hits the ball in the playoffs.

Give me a break Mr. Yankz. What is Torre's reputation with younger players? How many HR's and RBI's has A-Rod hit in the playoffs? The Diamondbacks and Rockies don't have anyone with that kind of firepower, and they are in the NLCS. Are you telling me that the only way the Yanks make the playoffs next year is if A-Rod is back? If that's the case, then Cashman should be fired, as well, because it is foolish to build your team around a great slugger who never hits the ball in the playoffs.

A Rod carried this team at times this year. No A Rod no playoffs. Yanks already in better position next year with Hughes, Kennedy and Jaba.

I am not sure why anyone would be surprised that Joe Torre is going to be held accountable for the team's performance. Torre has survived poorly managed post seasons since 2003, so it's not like he is being held to an unfair standard.

I agree completely with 14 . Torre has consistently managed poorly in the playoffs since Popeye left his side. Off the top of my head, I think you can pin the following on Joe in this series alone:

1) Not starting Wang at home, despite not one or two, but three years of splits that clearly show he is a full 1.5 runs better at home. That isn't a trivial amount. It's huge...and Torre completely ignored it.

2) Starting Matsui twice despite his having horrendous ABs. What's more, he has kept him in the middle of the lineup, and worse, as Arod's protection in Game 2. One major difference between game 1 and 2 is Arod looked more anxious to swing in the latter. Well, can you blame him? While Posada was providing back up in game 1, Arod looked more willing to take a walk. With Matsui's feeble bat behind him, however, Arod went out of the zone. If you were Cleveland, why would you even throw Alex a strike with Matsui struggling so mightly behind him.

3) Not hitting and running with Arod up to alleviate some pressure, and not putting on many plays at all, despite the offense struggling so much.

4) Giving up on game 1 when it was only 7-3 in the 5th inning. Did it really make sense to bring Ohlendorf in when the game was still in play.

5) Wasting Hughes in game 1 garbage time instead of saving him for game 2, when he would have been a better option than Vizcaino.

6) Not realizing that Joba was completely flustered by the bugs and summoning Mo to save the game. While this one is a pure second guess, I am not paid to manage the team. Joe is. In retrospect, he should have seen that Joba was bothered by the bugs. He could have gotten Mo up at the last minute and then gone out to have a 10 minute argument with Froemming. Heck, he didn't even suggest to Froemming that the game be delayed. As usual, Joe fiddled while Rome burned.

7) Allowing Veras and Ohlendorf to win a roster spot based on end of season innings, while leaving Britton off, even though he has the best track record of throwing strikes.

These are all fair criticisms of Torre and, when combined with his past postseason gaffes (Weaver walk off; no bunting on Schilling; no stealing on Wakefield; Batting Arod 8th; etc.), expose Torre's role in the Yankees failure to win a playoff series in 3 years.

If the Yankees drop out early again, Joe has to go. Bringing him back would be the height of foolishness.

I agree Sarasota. My point is, it is dangerous to build your team around A-Rod. We were lucky he chose this year to have a career year. If he had hit 35 homers and drove in 120 runs, we wouldn't be in the playoffs. Can A-Rod be expected to hit 54 HRs and 156 RBIs every year? Don't think so. And what do we do about his consistently minor-league-like performance?

18 You mean except for all the years that he has? You're right though...it's foolish to build your team around one of the best players in baseball. Sure, it worked with guys like Ruth, Mantle and DiMaggio, but that was just luck.

Williamnyy23, is that your understanding of Yankee history? That it was just Ruth and a bunch of hacks who played with him? Those guys that you mentioned were just one piece of an incredible machine. In addition, check the stats. You'll see that Ruth, Mantle and DiMaggio performed in the World Series as you would expect great players would. A-Rod's post-season performance is an embarrassment when you compare it the Yankees of yesterday.

14 You're forgetting that NOBODY is hitting. Not just Alex. Not one Yankee is hitting. How you can put the blame on Alex is beyond me.

Re: Torre leaving. What I think about when Torre leaves are the players. I almost feel like Jete, Mo, Po, and some others will treat the new manager like some new kid that doesn't belong. All those guys know is Torre. It must be weird for them having to listen to "get fired up" speeches from some newcomer. Are they going to celebrate just as much if they win the '08 regular season with their new adopted father? It's just weird. It's Torre's team, the players love him, so do I, let him stay for cryin' out loud.

Are Mo and Po really going to want to re-sign and play for a new manager? What if they don't resign because of it? Isn't it then a huge mistake to let Torre go?

I almost want to see Mo and Po leave along with all the coaches and the for the team to fall apart because of this. Not really, but in another world.

SF Yanks, you're right, no one is hitting. But A-Rod's past post-season performance suggests that he will continue to stink. Can you really say that about Jeter, for example? I doubt players are going to act against their own best interests just to have a major-league caliber temper tantrum and sign with another team. But if Mo and Jorge are as petulant as you say they are, why haven't we seen any evidence of this kind of juvenile behavior so far?

24 Are you calling the team the Yankees have on the field a bunch of hacks? If not, your point is irrelevant. Having Arod doesn't mean the Yankees can't field a strong team. Losing him, however, considerably weakens it.

As for Arod's post season performance, have you even bothered to look at his numbers, or do you just prefer to make baseless statements. Arod's career post season numbers are .268/.357/.464. He has been very good in 4 series and bad in 4 series. That's hardly the record you portray. What's more, do you know what Dimaggio's post season line is...it's .271/.338/.422. Compare that to Arod. As for Mantle, check out his numbers from 1961 to 1963. Like any superstar, Mantle wasn't perfect and suffered a pretty bad 3 year post season run. Why, exactly, do you think Arod should be condemned for having similar struggles?

You keep talking about facts...I suggest you actually check them out.

21 William, are you Yankee 21 over at LoHud? If not then your long lost twin is residing just over yonder.

Why do I get the feeling that if Torre did all those things you suggested, you would "create" another list of things to hound him with? I could be wrong, but I think its gotten to the point that you look for any reason at all to add to your list. Thing is William, if you watch every post season game, you and I could compile a list like that for every manger. So what is it you really want? A perfect managger? Not gonna happen. You're going to get your wish, I just hope you know what you're wishing for.

Mr. Williamnyy23, you need a reality check. Would you rather have A-Rod over DiMaggio or Mantle in the playoffs? If so, then you deserve a seat next to Mr. Torre, who hopefully will be gone after the post-season, and my vote is for Joe Girardi.

26 I haven't checked the stats but since game 4 in '04 who has been hitting? Alex is very capable of hitting in the post season and has done so in the past. Its not like its only his bat that has went cold the last few years. Everyones has.

28 I do not post on LoHud.

What in the litany above do you disagree with? If it was one or two, that'd be one thing, but each post season, Torre racks up a laundry list. Unless Torre is the only manager who can handle a clubhouse, I don't see why the team should continue to put up with his poor game management. Torre has had a very long and lucrative run as Yankee manager. He isn't a sacred cow and he isn't owed anything. The only way I would retain Torre would be if I didn't believe I could find a better candidate. I find it hard to believe there isn't one good manager in waiting out there.

I hope A-Rod proves me wrong tonight and breaks out in a huge way and carries the Yankes to the ALCS and beyond.

29 I take that to mean you didn't bother to check the stats? You said Arod has never hit in the post season...that's wrong. You implied DiMaggio and Mantle were always good in the post season...that's wrong too. All three players have had their ups and downs in the post season. I'd take any of the three because I realize that it's silly to condemn superstars for struggling. You can't seem to understand that...and seem willing to ignore facts so you can keep believing in your argument.

30 Exactly...also, while Arod has been bad, anyone who has actually watched all the ABs can attest to the fact that he hasn't received many pitches to hit, probably because no one else has been hitting either. Look at 2004, everyone slammed Arod, but he had a .381 OBP. Why? Because the Angels game plan was to never give a strike. The same has been true in this series. It's easy to blame Arod, but when judged in the context of the entire offense, he doesn't stand out for blame at all.

To all of you A-Rod lovers: Excuses, excuses, excuses. Did the Dodgers want to pitch to Mr. October? And why does A-Rod swing at balls that are obviously out of the strike zone? He knows better, he just can't help himself, because he is choking in the post-season. It's called panic-attack, anxiety, etc. The DSM-IV has very useful information about A-Rod and why he is so predictable in how he chokes when you need him to maintain his composure.

35 Your "Arod lovers" comments exposes your true motivation, so I probably shouldn't indulge your argument, but I'll try one more time to ask you back up your claims with facts?

By the way, do you know what Mr. October's LCS averages were. How about .227/.298/.380. Reggie did all his damage in the World Series, but seldom did much to get his team there. Had Reggie's teams slumped as much as Arod's have, he would never had gotten the chance to be Mr. October and guys like you would be making similar baseless claims.

mainline... that's exactly what I said about a-rod earlier on this thread - he needs some therapy, prozac, and perhaps the soothing words of the yankees chick to ease his anxiety.

he is painful to watch such a talented guy psych himself out. i can hardly watch when he's up to bat.

does that mean we should count him out? no. i'm still holding out hope that he'll come through.

Mr. Williamnyy23, your use of statistics to prove your point demonstrates the pointlessness of statistics. Let me be the one to bring you down to earth. When has A-Rod ever had a "Reggie" moment in the post-season? Try never! Your post proves my point, that Bronx Banter is comprised of a bunch of kids who suck up to A-Rod and know nothing about Yankee history.

I agree Yankees Chick. As much as I think the Yanks' reliance on A-Rod is wrong-headed, I am rooting for A-Rod tonight and it will be a great story if he snaps out of his funk.

More fun facts that make baseless arguments difficult to justify:

Willie Mays in the post season: .247/.323/.337

Why did the Giants put up with the bum?

38 Thank you MainLine...you've pretty much exposed yourself as someone who doesn't need to be taken seriously. I am sorry to scare you with those big bad stats...it's ok to come out from under your rock now.

I will let you have the last word Mr. Williamnyy23. I have to go mow my lawn. Go Yankees!

For those not frightened by scary stats (aka, the Truth), here are some post season series when Arod did well:

1997 alds: .313 .313 .563
2000 ALCS: .409 .480 .773
2004 ALDS#: .421 .476 .737
2004 ALCS#: .258 .378 .516

#with the Yankees

21 Joe, blah, blah ... I bet you make out with Joe in your sleep.

28 I remember when the same spiels about Mel were overtaking the Banter. Rick Peterson or any other pitching coach was supposed to be the answer to the Yankee pitching woes. Mel was fired/forced out and nothing has changed.

44 Thanks for reading.

A Rod and Torre are not the problem, nor are they the ultimate answer......pitching is.
It should be expected that a NY Yankees team with Petite, Jaba, and Mo pitching be accountable in the playoffs to hold onto a 1-0 lead.
Finally, why isn't Cashman taking more heat. He's the damn architect isn't he??

46 I think 1 bug aided run in 10 innings is pretty much all you can ask from Pettitte, Joba and Mo. You can't fault the pitching for losing game 2.

Cashman isn't taking more heat because he has been rebuilding while keeping the team in contention. There are areas he could have done better, but if the manager and players performed better, the team wouldn't be getting bounced in the first round.

46 No excuses. They failed to execute the pitches in the 8th.

I don't think A-Rod looks that nervous. He's just getting beat. When he was spraying bug spray on everyone, including the umps, he was laughing and seemed to be enjoying himself. The numbers are bad, there's no doubt. But he's not a choker. I just hope he starts hitting tonight so all this bullshit will go away.