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M. Rivera BR BP BC E
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J. Veras BR BP BC E mi
E. Ramirez BR BP BC E mi
B. Bruney BR BP BC E mi
D. Giese BR BP BC E mi
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J. Phelps BR BP BC E MLB STL
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R. Clemens BR BP BC E mi
T. Clippard BR BP BC E mi WAS
L. Vizcaino BR BP BC E COL $7.5m/2yrs
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M. Myers (L) BR BP BC E LAD mL
R. Villone (L) BR BP BC E mi STL
S. Proctor BR BP BC E LAD
J. Brower BR BP BC E mi CIN mL
C. Bean BR BP BC E mi ATL mL

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T.J. Beam BR BP BC E mi PIT mL
B. Kozlowski (L) BR BP BC E mi Japan

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J. Kennard BC mi

Abreu Trade
M. Smith (L) BR BP BC E mi PHI
C. Monasterios BC mi PHI
J. Sanchez mi PHI

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Yankee Panky # 25: And Then There Were Two
2007-09-27 09:08
by Will Weiss

Some quick hits as we prep for the home stretch and hope like hell the Yankees don’t have to deal with Vlad Guerrero, Chone Figgins, Garret Anderson, Howie Kendrick and Orlando Cabrera, at least not yet:

  • The Yankees will be making their 13th straight October appearance. Never mind that they’d have clinched earlier had Joe Torre not mismanaged the bullpen Tuesday night at the Trop (more on that below.)

(It’d be 14 straight had it not been for the ’94 Strike, and Donnie Baseball would have a World Series ring following a five-game dispatch of the Expos. Tony Gwynn would have hit .400, too, but now I’m in Tangentville.)

For all the Yankee haters who relished at the thought of a regular-season failure, and Met fans who currently have no comeback for the line, “Well, at least we know we’re playing in October,” let’s reminisce, shall we? July 2007: 1050 ESPN Radio jock Don LaGreca’s sardonic soliloquy to fans on the last weekend of play before the All-Star break, where he said the Yankees would be interesting and would win games but it wouldn’t be enough. They had too many games to make up. Too many teams to hurdle. I’ll admit, the rant was pretty funny. Anyone else want to join me in submitting recipes for crow?

If any of you reading this happened to tune in to that particular segment of the Saturday show, what made LaGreca’s bit even funnier were the “Ta-dow, how you like me now?” calls from Met fans thinking their team had finally assumed the spotlight. Nope. This is still a Yankees town.

That fact is evident in the way the breadth of coverage the teams have shared lately (except in Newsday, where Mets stories have outnumbered Yankees stories due to a heavy Mets fan base on Long Island). The presentation has been mostly doom-and-gloom for the Queens franchise that borrowed elements from the three previously existing New York baseball teams so it’ll forever have an identity crisis. (It’s never good when the New York Times dedicates includes the Mets’ current nosedive in a special Metro Section bulletin featuring “Greatest New York Collapses.”) Yankees depictions have been mixed, depending on game results. I’ve found for the most part that the articles have reflected the mood of the players who made the news.

As far as how the Mets’ and Yankees’ playoff standings were portrayed, the point was accurately made that the Yankees have a failsafe. It’s a longshot, but the possibility remains that the Yankees can win the division. They’d try to win their remaining four games regardless, but if they don’t tie or pass the Sox it’s not the end of the world because they already have the wild-card locked up. The Mets, meanwhile, have continued to stumble like Maggie Simpson, and are approaching a certain creek and losing paddle supplies. In a week’s time, Phillies shortstop Jimmy Rollins’ “we’re the team to beat quote” from spring training has gone from “are you kidding?” to “he might be right” status. 

  • Comparisons to the 1978 and 2005 Yankee seasons have been made both in this space and throughout the “traditional” media outlets for much of the past 12 weeks. Clearly, there are parallels. The parallel will truly come to fruition if the Yankees and Red Sox end up tied following Sunday’s action.
  • Did anyone else catch Michael Kay go Moose hunting Tuesday on his radio show?

    The short version: Mike Mussina’s comments that the Joba Rules should be done away with (there’s a case for it, sure), and that he deserves a postseason start based on his last three starts and his experience level set Kay into a frenzy. Mussina’s quote on the topic was that it would be “ridiculous” for him not to start. Kay railed back on the air saying it would be ridiculous for Torre to slot him in at all.

    Here’s the catch: If William R. Clemens and his pro-rated $28 million hamstrings aren’t healthy, Torre’s alternatives will be slim.

    To me, the rant sounds like it had personal overtones. Maybe I’m reading too much into it. Even if Kay is right -- that Mussina’s experience does not entitle him to a postseason start -- is that a reason to let whatever hostilities may exist between the two of them spill into his diatribe? Such incidents lead to “I wonder if they hate each other” banter on discussion boards like this.

    So my question to you, the reader, is this: If you were a commentator and were forced to cover and discuss a player you may dislike – for whatever reason -- how would you present your opinion in a situation where said player issues a comment that touches a nerve with you? Me, I wouldn’t avoid the issue, but I would try to argue for or against it using hard data and try to maintain an even temper. At the very least, I’d invite the player on my show to interview him and get his side. If the situation escalates from there, so be it.
  • To my first bullet point…I’ve posed the question at various times throughout the season – most recently with the Joba Rules – about Joe Torre plugging certain relievers into situations to either hold big leads or keep the Yankees in a game, and pulling the wrong string. Tuesday night’s mess was a perfect example. Blowing a five-run lead in one inning and allowing the Devil Rays to score five runs with two outs is unacceptable, especially when you want to clinch a playoff spot and keep the division title within reach.

    I turned on the game in the bottom of the 6th (had to watch House first), when the Rays had runners on first and third and Edwar Ramirez on the mound protecting a 5-1 lead. When Torre called on Brian Bruney to replace Ramirez, I said to my wife, “This game will be 5-5 in about five minutes.” I flipped channels and when I returned to YES, it was 6-5 Rays.

    The move that really irked me, though, was summoning Jeff Karstens to pitch the 10th inning. I understand the philosophy of calling on a guy who can potentially eat innings at that stage of the game. But you need to bring in someone who has shown he can get batters out. Karstens hasn’t done that at all, at least, not since his return from a broken leg. Karstens’ H/IP ratio at the time of his Tampa appearance was almost 2-to-1, and his ERA was 10.43. Moreover, pitching in a similar situation Saturday, had it not been for Melky Cabrera, Robinson Cano, and an assist from the pitcher’s mound, Karstens may have cost the Yankees a victory. All Kay and Al Leiter could say of the move when reciting Karstens’ stats was, ‘The numbers aren’t good, but he’s had a long run of bad luck.” That may be true, but at this point, as a fan, I don’t want to hear a “sprinkles on poop” rationalization of a bad move.

    Johnny Damon told reporters following Tuesday’s loss that Torre is “trying to find the guys he’s going to use” in pressure middle relief spots in the postseason. I was surprised at the lack of commentary on that point. Winning games trumps second chances. Play the people who give you the best chance to win. Period.

Torre didn’t have to massage anyone’s ego last night, as the Yankees broke the game open in the middle innings and Chien-Ming Wang was on the mound. His only real decision, predictably, was to give Mariano Rivera some work. He pitched the ninth to nail down the eight-run, berth-clinching win.

Aside from Rivera, Joba, and maybe Vizcaino and “I’m good if I can pitch from the windup” Farnsworth, there simply isn’t anyone who can consistently get outs. If Torre doesn’t know how he’s going to use his guys by now, the Yankees will not win.

Next week … awards and a playoff coverage survey.

Comments (271)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-09-27 09:20:52
1.   rilkefan
"Play the people who give you the best chance to win. Period."

Posada should start every game. If we don't win the division we should refuse to take the WC.

2007-09-27 09:22:06
2.   rbj
"Johnny Damon told reporters following Tuesday's loss that Torre is "trying to find the guys he's going to use" in pressure middle relief spots in the postseason. I was surprised at the lack of commentary on that point. Winning games trumps second chances. Play the people who give you the best chance to win. Period."

Unless Torre plans on using just Mo & Joba he does need to see how relievers work in certain situations. Yankees were all but guaranteed the WC at that spot anyhow, as the magic number was 1.

AS for crow, it goes well with a nice chianti and fava beans.

2007-09-27 09:30:19
3.   Bob Timmermann
If Cleveland wins in Seattle tonight, the Yankees will almost assuredly miss the Angels in ALDS. Cleveland holds the tiebreaker edge over the Angels and would be no worse than #2 in the league.

Unless the Yankees won the division, then it gets a little more complicated.

2007-09-27 09:44:11
4.   NJYankee41
Michael Kay hates Mussina. He admits that they have their differences, but its obvious he hates him. After last season Kay's irrational disdain for Mussina was at its peak when he faught hard with arguments that Randy Johnson had a better year simply because he had more wins than Mussina. He was unable to come up with anything other than wins are important and Randy pitched to the score better. It was pathetic and thats when Kay cemented my view of him as a two-faced shmuck.

Does anyone even know the reason for Kay's hatred of Moose?

2007-09-27 09:52:25
5.   bp1
I heard Kay's rant toward Moose. I actually agreed w/ Moose's comments re: Joba (paraphrasing) "we need him" and "when you're in the playoffs, you are ready to play every day". Those are sentiments I would expect from players on the team. Joba is a guy who has proven he can get outs, and be the bridge to Mo. What Moose said is what we all said.

I believe Kay uses things like that just to drive conversation on his show and to get callers excited. I understand that, so I don't blame him. I'm sure half the guys on radio say things they don't actually believe just to generate discussion. Yeah - MK has a beef w/ Moose, but I don't think that was the reason he went off as much as that Joba is news and talking about "the rules" will generate phone calls.

Go Moose.

2007-09-27 09:52:46
6.   RichB
0 Hey, on any other day, I'd be first in line to criticize Torre about bullpen management. But, in this situation, I think we have to give him a break. With a magic number of 1 and 5 games left after Tuesday's game, it makes sense to start auditions for the post-season. The question that should be on Torre's mind now is not "how do I use these guys" but "who do I take for my 10th & 11th pitcher in case I am forced to use them"? The answer he should have gotten on Tuesday was "not Karstens" and "maybe not Edwar or Bruney". All of those guys can reasonably be put in the question mark category. Karstens is still not right after coming back from the injury, but one assumes they've been working with him to get him straight. Edwar is young and Bruney has been so inconsistent and one assumes that they're trying to straighten out both of those guys too.
2007-09-27 10:03:50
7.   Shaun P
6 Auditioning is fine, but why not audition Britton - the guy who has sustained ML success in pressure situations, having pitched the 8th inning for Baltimore last year - instead of Bruney, who's control is awful. And instead of Karstens, who's waaayyyyy down the list on "possible middle relievers", why not throw Ohlendorf out there?

Trying to get Edwar going is fine with me, as the kid is (outside of Mo and Joba) more likely to strike batters out than anyone else in the pen. Unless Hughes goes into the pen.

2007-09-27 10:14:02
8.   RichB
7 Britton got the last out of the 7th in that game, so he was put out there. And Ohlendorf pitched the night before (and pitched a perfect inning).
2007-09-27 10:23:32
9.   Shaun P
8 That's what I get for not paying much attention. Sounds like Torre did the best he could, without using VizJoMo - except he went to Britton too late. I humbly withdraw my criticism.

Will, the trick IMHO to covering a guy you personally dislike who says something that strikes a nerve is to take a big deep breath, and remind yourself that even a semi-public confrontation is NOT a good thing (whatever ratings might say about shock stuff). It destroys your credibility in terms of being able to at least claim to be objective.

2007-09-27 10:23:50
10.   Kered Retej
0 I m assuming that "Mo" should be substituted for "Torre" in the first sentence of the last paragraph.
2007-09-27 10:24:41
11.   ChrisS
The bullpen frightens me to no end. I like Edwar and his lack of success makes me wonder how someone can be so dominant at AAA and be so hittable at the ML level. His fastball must have zero movement on it.
2007-09-27 10:31:07
12.   ChrisS
It seems kind of weird that no team will reach 100 wins this year.

But then I looked at the seasonal win totals for each league and found out that it's not all that uncommon.

2007-09-27 10:42:25
13.   Mattpat11
Will, you idiot.

"Innings eaters" don't have to actually be capable of getting anyone out.

They just need to be the worst pitchers on the team who can "give breaks to" the good relievers while creating situations that necessitate the use of the good relievers.

Or so I'm told.

2007-09-27 10:50:28
14.   weeping for brunnhilde
And btw, Shaun (non-sequitur alert), perhaps Sloth says "Hey you guys" in Goonies, but I swear to God, that battle cry "Heyyyyy yoooouuuuuuu guuuuuuuyyyyyyyyssssss!" comes from PBS, I'm nearly certain from the beginning of the Electric Company.

Surely someone can confirm that this is correct and that I'm not on drugs.

:)

2007-09-27 11:07:51
15.   Chyll Will
14 I couldn't resist, especially since I might be a set PA on a pilot episode of the new version of this show very soon XD

The call originated from Rita Moreno as the introduction to "The Electric Company" in the early seventies; in fact she began doing that the second season. From what I understand, it kinda started as a running joke during the first season as all the actors were kinda crazy. Lots and lots of people have imitated it since, including The Goonies. The DVD of the original series has lots of insights, but you'll get much the same from Wikipedia... hey, I remember we talked about this at length before! If anyone remembers that particular thread, you're a genius... >;)

2007-09-27 11:09:48
16.   Will Weiss
14 You and Shaun P are both correct. The "Hey you guys ..." is from The Electric Company, which Sloth used as the battle cry to get One-Eyed Willie's loot in "The Goonies." Long live Chester Copperpot.
2007-09-27 11:12:43
17.   JeremyM
Here's a link to one intro of the show: http://tinyurl.com/2z8dz6

There's no "hey you guys" but there is a young Morgan Freeman. Not as funny as "Larry" Fishburne as Cowboy Curtis on the Pee-Wee Herman Playhouse show, but still funny.

2007-09-27 11:17:53
18.   weeping for brunnhilde
15 16 Cheers!
2007-09-27 11:33:35
19.   weeping for brunnhilde
17 :)

That was heartwarming, thanks, Jeremy.

2007-09-27 11:34:33
20.   weeping for brunnhilde
Oh, and good luck getting the gig, Will!
2007-09-27 11:34:36
21.   Bama Yankee
Here's the opening with the "Hey you guys":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOVuT1xpI2M

Man, I loved that show when I was a kid.

2007-09-27 11:36:23
22.   JeremyM
http://tinyurl.com/2scuqv For those interested, there's Cowboy Curtis, in action.
2007-09-27 11:37:54
23.   rbj
Gosh, haven't thought of The Electric Company in years. Decades even. Nice.
2007-09-27 11:39:02
24.   JeremyM
21 Holy sh-t, that's awesome! My fiance loves Goonies (as do I and all properly raised kids from the 80s), but Electric Company was before our time. She's going to love that.
2007-09-27 11:46:02
25.   Chyll Will
20 Thanks; the producer called me about it and said, "You've heard of The Electric Company?" Heh-heh; Okay don't let me tell you my life story, I said >;)
2007-09-27 11:47:42
26.   Bama Yankee
For those of you who also remember watching Sesame Street as a kid:
"The Bronx Banter has been brought to you today by the letters N & Y and by the number 27"
2007-09-27 11:48:05
27.   Chyll Will
24 I'll bet you liked "The New Zoo Revue", but please don't tell me you liked "The Smurfs"...
2007-09-27 11:55:28
28.   Alex Belth
Yo, I LOVED the Electric Company. And Morgan Freeman was the MAN as Easy Reader. Loved that dude. Mostly, I loved them because they had Spidey. (Remember the Letter Man animated bit, with Joan Rivers narrating?) Know who one of the creators and head writers of the show was? Character actor Paul Dooley.
2007-09-27 11:58:34
29.   Sliced Bread
I was only about 6 years old when The Electric Co. started, but had already acquired a taste for more "mature" fare: Bugs, Popeye, Rascals, Munsters etc. Educational PBS kid shows were already in my rear-view mirror.
Oh, the stuff a first-grader could learn watching "F-Troop" and "Get Smart."

What's a Goonie? Seriously, I have to look that up.

2007-09-27 12:01:00
30.   pistolpete
27 The Smurfs had its moments - the 'Is it much further now, Papa Smurf?' gag comes to mind.

Vanity Smurf had to be one of TV's earliest gay characters...

2007-09-27 12:06:23
31.   Chyll Will
30 Snagglepuss had him beat by a good 20-30 years...

28 The voice of Letter Man? Gene Wilder.

26 Yunnow you can do the Harlem Shake to that funky groove Sesame Street used to close out to with the production credits. I wonder if Thelarmis could do the drum beat on that number...

2007-09-27 12:08:58
32.   RIYank
Leftover from last thread:

Weeping, yes, I did see the Mientkiewicz interview and actually it was because of that that I thought of Andy P. Mientkiewicz seems like a pretty cool guy. I liked his point about his knowing how other teams look at the Yankees in mid-summer and how the vision seems to change in late September.

2007-09-27 12:09:11
33.   Bama Yankee
15 Hey Chyll, is this the thread you were talking about:
http://bronxbanter.baseballtoaster.com/archives/599092.html

(also, as weeping said, good luck on the new job)

Not sure if you got to see my latest creation that I posted in the last thread:
http://tinyurl.com/3yce3w

2007-09-27 12:09:58
34.   RIYank
Wow.
I'm actually too old for Electric Company. My little sister watched it, so I know what it is, but I was a sophisticated 8 year old at the time and wouldn't deign to watch.
2007-09-27 12:15:51
35.   Chyll Will
33 Sheer genius on both counts >;)

(I still never got an answer to my question about the that cocaine-laced Meow-Mix disco version of "Take Me Out To The Ballgame"...)

2007-09-27 12:17:20
36.   Chyll Will
34 You're not too old to watch it now; you missed a lot. The outtakes have got to be special...
2007-09-27 12:19:46
37.   Shaun P
14 et al

I remember the Electric Company, but only vaguely, and only from the reruns (which wikipedia says were just the last 2 seasons of the show). I was born the year the EC ended ('77).

Now 3-2-1 Contact, THAT I remember!

2007-09-27 12:21:45
38.   Sliced Bread
34 that's what I'm talkin' bout.
2007-09-27 12:29:21
39.   Sliced Bread
33 Sweet, Bama.
2007-09-27 12:29:23
40.   Chyll Will
Zoom, anyone?
2007-09-27 12:29:50
41.   RIYank
38 Oh, right, there ya go.
I can't remember what I was watching at the time. Ah, yes I do: I was a big Hawaii 5-0 fan. Also Mannix.
2007-09-27 12:31:18
42.   RIYank
Yeah, I did watch "Zoom"! I think I may have been embarrassed about it. But hey, at least now I have a Boston ZIP code burned into my primal memory.
2007-09-27 12:33:02
43.   Just fair
I was a sucker for "The Bloodhound Gang" on the E. C. long before there was the O.C. I can't remember what specific shenanigans they were up to, I just know it was cool.
2007-09-27 12:34:25
44.   Jen
Kay hates Mussina because he wasn't cooperative during their first interview. Apparently Moose rolled his eyes or something and Kay has never forgiven him. Once in a while Kay will tell the story on his show.
2007-09-27 12:34:50
45.   Bama Yankee
28 I loved the Letter Man also. Here's a clip of how he got his start:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCqoB7ZFrF4

Here's a good one of Easy Reader:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTGd22xn2B4
(the fact that he turns the word WEEP into the word SWEEP has got to be some kind of sign)

Also, here's some Spidey for you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQytDV0Jy24

2007-09-27 12:43:57
46.   Bama Yankee
45 Spidey was a Mets fan... Who knew?
(Could that "Up against the wall" sketch be a bad sign for the Mets?)
2007-09-27 12:44:59
47.   RichB
When I was very wee, I was a dedicated Captain Kangaroo fan. When I was school age, they showed us Electric Company every day (I think the teacher just wanted a break). I vividly remember sitting in a darkened classroom with plastic crayola colored chairs listening to "Hey You Guys!". 3-2-1 Contact came later (same darkened classroom, same plastic chairs but only one color for the older kids).

How any Great Space Coaster?

2007-09-27 12:47:12
48.   Raf
There was New Zoo Revue, Great Space Coaster, 3-2-1 Contact, Electric Company, Viva Allegre & Vegetable Soup.

Seems the last two weren't all that well known.

2007-09-27 12:49:43
49.   Sliced Bread
40 Zoom fell into the same category as Electric Co. for me. I was over it before it started.

I see a similar thing now with my sons.
Some kid shows are cool to them, and some kid shows make them go 'meh.'
I think a lot of it depends on where they're at when they're introduced to a show.
Seems there's a window to introduce certain shows and concepts, and if you miss that window (too early/too late) they're gone.

2007-09-27 12:50:29
50.   Bama Yankee
35 & 39 Thanks.

41 Hey, I remember Mannix. I thought that was a pretty cool show.