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The Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim
2007-08-20 14:44
by Cliff Corcoran
Note: The Bronx Banter blog has moved to bronxbanterblog.com.

In case you had forgotten, the Yankees kicked off their current hot streak by taking three of four from the Twins and then two of three from the Angels at Yankee Stadium in the final two series before the All-Star break. Since then, the Angels have gone a modest 19-16 in the second half. Along the way they've lost series to the D-Rays, Twins, A's (twice), M's, Blue Jays, and most recently split four games with the Red Sox. The bad news is that the Halos have maintained their considerable home-road splits over that stretch, going 8-12 on the road and 11-4 at home, the latter including a series win against the Red Sox and sweeps of the Twins and Tigers. Indeed, the Angels have a losing record on the road for the year, but have played .702 ball at Angel Stadium. Meanwhile the Yankees are still a game below .500 on the road.

The good news is that the Yanks, who have played .717 ball dating back to that Twins series, have also gone 12-5 on the road since their disastrous swing through the NL West in late June. That sets up the three-game series in Anaheim that kicks off tonight as a real battle of the titans. Indeed, the Angels are just 2.5 games ahead of the Yankees in the overall American League standings and are one of just three teams in baseball that has won more games than the Bombers (Boston and upstart Arizona being the other two). Of course, every stat about the Yankees recent success comes with the caveat of the quality of their second-half competition, but now that the Yankees have taken six of seven from the Indians and Tigers, with three of those coming on the road, one needn't sound that warning quite so loudly.

As for the Angels, rookie sensation Reggie Willits has crashed back to earth in the second half, returning the left field job to Garret Anderson, who had a hot July, but has been awful in August. With Anderson in the field, Mike Scioscia has been using the DH spot to give rotating rest to his three outfielders, with Willits picking up most of those spot starts and some extra time at DH himself. Elsewhere, the team's young catcher Mike Napoli just can't seem to stay healthy. That's why Jose Molina was starting for the Angels earlier in the year and that's why backup Jeff Mathis is doing so now. Mathis, who started five games over the season's first four months,has started 19 games since Molina was traded and has hit .237/.299/.373 over that span, which is actually a fair upgrade from what Molina had done as the Angel starter. Fortunately, Molina, who should get a start against his old team as Posada has now started four straight, has stepped up his game since coming to New York.

Tonight, the Yankees send Phil Hughes, who has been excellent in his two major league road starts, to the hill to face fellow rookie Dustin Moseley. Though a starter by trade, Moseley has spent most of the year in the Angel bullpen after opening the year with two solid starts in place of the injured Jered Weaver. Moseley returned to the rotation in late July after the Angels optioned the disappointing Ervin Santana to triple-A and Bartolo Colon hit the DL with elbow trouble once again. Moseley's made four starts since then, but failed to make it out of the sixth inning in any of them alternating stinkers against Detroit and Boston at home with solid, but short outings against the A's and Jays on the road. Moseley's back home facing another good offense and due for one of those stinkers. Here's hoping his trend continues. Either way, with Santana having made a triumphant return in Boston on Friday, it appears Moseley will be heading back to the pen after tonight.

Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim

2007 Record: 72-51 (.585)
2007 Pythagorean Record: 69-54 (.563)

Manager: Mike Scioscia
General Manager: Bill Stoneman

Home Ballpark (2007 Park Factors): Angel Stadium (95/96)

Who's Replacing Whom?

Jeff Mathis replaces Jose Molina behind the plate while Ryan Budde (minors) replaces Mathis on the bench
Joe Saunders (minors) replaces Bartolo Colon (DL)
Marcus Gwyn (minors) replaces Chris Resop (DL)
Justin Speier (DL) replaces Kendry Morales (minors)

25-man Roster:

1B – Casey Kotchman (L)
2B – Howie Kendrick (R)
SS – Orlando Cabrera (R)
3B – Chone Figgins (S)
C – Jeff Mathis (R)
RF – Vladimir Guerrero (R)
CF – Gary Matthews Jr. (S)
LF – Garret Anderson (L)
DH – Reggie Willits (S)

Bench:

R - Robb Quinlan (1B)
S - Maicer Izturis (2B)
L - Nathan Haynes (OF)
R - Ryan Budde (C)

Rotation:

R - Kelvim Escobar
R - John Lackey
R - Ervin Santana
R - Jered Weaver
L - Joe Saunders

Bullpen:

R - Francisco Rodriguez
R - Scot Shields
R - Justin Speier
L - Darren Oliver
R - Chris Bootcheck
R - Dustin Moseley
R - Marcus Gwyn

15-day DL: R - Mike Napoli (C), S - Erick Aybar (IF), R - Bartolo Colon, R - Chris Resop
60-day DL: R - Juan Rivera (OF), L - Dallas McPherson (3B)

Typical Lineup:

S - Chone Figgins (3B)
R - Orlando Cabrera (SS)
R - Vladimir Guerrero (RF)
L - Garret Anderson (LF)
S - Gary Matthews Jr. (CF)
L - Casey Kotchman (1B)
R - Howie Kendrick (2B)
R - Jeff Mathis (C)
S - Reggie Willits (DH)

Comments (844)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-08-20 19:36:19
1.   Mike T
Hey Rob, we expect you to field all of the balls that come your way, not just half of them.
2007-08-20 19:36:52
2.   seamus
cano having a rough night.
2007-08-20 19:37:40
3.   Mattpat11
We're getting lazy Robbie tonight.
2007-08-20 19:38:22
4.   RIYank
Was Phil rattled by the mistake?
2007-08-20 19:38:36
5.   Ravenscar
Ugh - that 5-pitch first inning is getting erased right here.
2007-08-20 19:38:37
6.   Mike T
Uh oh.
2007-08-20 19:39:03
7.   bobtaco
Come on Phil, use the Force
2007-08-20 19:39:54
8.   RIYank
It's not the pitch count I'm worried about.
2007-08-20 19:40:10
9.   Ravenscar
oh crap. That's on you, Robbie.
2007-08-20 19:40:14
10.   JeremyM
God dammit, this is all Cano's fault.
2007-08-20 19:40:20
11.   Mattpat11
So much for that
2007-08-20 19:40:43
12.   RIYank
Hooooooo boy.

I'm gonna go get a beer. Somebody fix this while I'm gone.

2007-08-20 19:40:44
13.   Ravenscar
OK, it's not entirely on you, Robbie, after seeing that hanging curve.
2007-08-20 19:40:55
14.   Mike T
Hughes deserved that. He needs to focus.
2007-08-20 19:41:09
15.   Mattpat11
I really hope we get red faced Larry Bowa in Cano's face telling him to cut the bullshit out.
2007-08-20 19:41:12
16.   Yankees Brasil
there goes the game..
2007-08-20 19:41:42
17.   JeremyM
I had a feeling this would be a rough start for Hughes after hearing he was from nearby. He looks totally rattled, it's easy to forget he's very much a rookie.
2007-08-20 19:42:20
18.   bobtaco
17 I'm not ready to concede yet.
2007-08-20 19:43:07
19.   rsmith51
Walks to the Angels always seem to score.
2007-08-20 19:43:12
20.   Mattpat11
I really wish O'Neil was in the booth. The first time Kay suggests that this is okay because "Anaheim has our number" Paul could break his jaw.
2007-08-20 19:43:26
21.   fansince77
WTF does Hughes expect? You can't find the zone? with a 1-0 lead he is pitching with such a tight schvincter - THIS REALLY SUCKS!
2007-08-20 19:43:57
22.   bobtaco
20 I'll trade you for the Angels booth right now.
2007-08-20 19:44:11
23.   Yankees Brasil
he can't throw a curveball for strike to save his life
2007-08-20 19:44:45
24.   JeremyM
18 I'm not conceding, hopefully he can settle down and stop the bleeding. I think the Yanks will score some more runs yet.
2007-08-20 19:44:55
25.   fansince77
Hughes got lucky with that K...He is really biting it right now. You just can't let the Angels do this do this to you.
2007-08-20 19:45:04
26.   RIYank
Weird.
I think he should stick with the fast ball for a while.
2007-08-20 19:45:32
27.   Ravenscar
Nice high heat. One more.

I'm thinking you guys will actually bang out a bunch of runs tonight. If he keeps it to 3 runs, I'm pretty confident the yankees will win. Maybe Hughes will bear down now.

2007-08-20 19:45:48
28.   rsmith51
Do these Angel announcers ever shut up?
2007-08-20 19:46:12
29.   Yankees Brasil
25 Can't give a bases clearing double to their worst hitter..
2007-08-20 19:46:25
30.   Mattpat11
Holy shit. A ball was hit to Robinson Cano and he tried.

The game really is turning around.

2007-08-20 19:46:31
31.   RIYank
He's thrown some nice pitches. (I feel like I'm watching a different game from some of you.) But he's thrown some really bad ones, too.
2007-08-20 19:46:32
32.   Mike T
I don't like being nervous when the ball is hit to Cano.
2007-08-20 19:46:38
33.   claybeez
Hughes is definitely capable of limiting the Angels the rest of the way. That being said, I still wish he hadn't lost velocity so soon. I hope he gets the mechanics back that allowed him to work at 93-94 MPH. I would think that would help how batters handle his curve.
2007-08-20 19:46:52
34.   bobtaco
It's like a boxing match. Hughes took a good shot to the chin, hopefully that will wake him up and he'll settle down -- and the Yankee's bats will beat on their rookie a little.
2007-08-20 19:47:44
35.   JeremyM
As far as announcers, you guys could be listening to Sutcliffe right now--I'd rather listen to cats mating. He just said that Hughes has "struggled with Jorge catching this year." Yeah, in which one of his 5 freaking starts that you have to choose from? You're able to discern a trend already?
2007-08-20 19:47:49
36.   Mike T
22 No shit. Wasn't this game supposed to be on ESPN?
2007-08-20 19:48:01
37.   RIYank
27 I agree. And our bullpen isn't too bad either tonight: Mo and Viz. So it's up to Phil now, he has to smoke from here on in.
2007-08-20 19:48:07
38.   williamnyy23
For a pitcher that is supposed to be as dominant as Hughes, it seems as if he is reticent to attack hitters. There was no reason to pitch so carefully to Kotchman and Kendrick in the 2nd inning. Whether it's Hughes or Posada, they need to be more agressive with the hitters.
2007-08-20 19:48:28
39.   Mattpat11
35 Has Sutcliffe started his annual push for Jason Varitek as the AL MVP yet?
2007-08-20 19:48:39
40.   SF Yanks
28 Better than the ESPN annoucners.
2007-08-20 19:49:03
41.   RIYank
33 Funny, I checked Gameday and it says his heater is consistently 93ish.
2007-08-20 19:49:09
42.   Yankees Brasil
35 Heard that shit also.. my ears are bleeding already
2007-08-20 19:49:34
43.   Mike T
34 Our guys have to hit something other than fly balls.
2007-08-20 19:49:51
44.   JeremyM
39 Not yet, but I'm waiting for the Chone Figgins case to be made any second now...
2007-08-20 19:50:19
45.   bobtaco
Damn, I thought Lackey was fugly, but they just had a closeup of Saunders. Why do all of their pitchers look inbred?
2007-08-20 19:50:58
46.   Mattpat11
44 No. He would never betray Varitek like that.
2007-08-20 19:51:12
47.   SF Yanks
41 Yeah, he's actually been around 94-95 tonight.
2007-08-20 19:52:06
48.   JeremyM
46 To be fair, that was a John Kruk argument a few years ago, not Sutcliffe. "He plays so many positions, and you can bat him anywhere in the lineup. And he can steal a bag."
2007-08-20 19:52:11
49.   Ravenscar
I know that Joba is being limited as far as innings and whatnot, but is Edwar available on consecutive nights? I would imagine he could come in later if not Joba.
2007-08-20 19:52:25
50.   OldYanksFan
Why is Giambi sitting tonight? With a righty on the mound?
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-08-20 19:52:52
51.   RIYank
My take is that Hughes just had mechanical of physical problems. He couldn't locate the curve.
2007-08-20 19:53:28
52.   claybeez
41 47

On YES, the highest I saw pop up was 91.

2007-08-20 19:53:41
53.   OldYanksFan
We are hitting the ball well. Its just a matter of time.
2007-08-20 19:53:57
54.   Mike T
This pitcher has settled down, and is owning us now. Our guys better get their shit together.
2007-08-20 19:54:10
55.   RIYank
50 I think Moseley has better numbers against lefties.
2007-08-20 19:54:31
56.   Yu-Hsing Chen
yeah, we're having pretty solid contact off this guy right now
2007-08-20 19:54:41
57.   OldYanksFan
52 The guy on 2nd rattled him. He was not paying attention to the guy at the plate.
2007-08-20 19:54:46
58.   RIYank
Check it out: our righties have three hits. Our lefties have none.
2007-08-20 19:56:03
59.   JeremyM
In other words, Duncan should have been the DH tonight.
2007-08-20 19:56:11
60.   williamnyy23
51 I think (hope) Hughes less than dynamic performances since coming back are the result of the injury he suffered.

There is no reason the Yankees shouldn't hammer Moseley, but already you see less than encouraging body language on the field. The nine men in gray are much better than the nine for the home team. If the Yankees drop this game, it would be a big dissapointment, especially with Escobar and Lackey lined up for the last two games.

2007-08-20 19:56:13
61.   Yankees Brasil
58 Might have been a good game to have Duncan playing..
2007-08-20 19:56:36
62.   fansince77
oh Fuck Hughes- are we gonna fall behind EVERY hitter?
2007-08-20 19:57:14
63.   OldYanksFan
Sudcliff simply does not know what he's talking about.
2007-08-20 19:57:33
64.   bobtaco
59 We may see him if Damon keeps weakly flying out...
2007-08-20 19:57:45
65.   tommyl
He's still missing with location...argh, c'mon Phil, you're better than this.
2007-08-20 19:57:58
66.   williamnyy23
52 I've observed the same...Hughes has topped out at 92mph on the YES gun.

We have yet to see the Hughes from Texas since he returned from the DL.

2007-08-20 19:59:11
67.   Vandelay Industries
I actually don't mind Kay's comments. It isn't "ok," but it is up to the team to shut him up, because as of today, they absolutely do have our number. There is no denying it.
2007-08-20 19:59:30
68.   fansince77
And yet another hitter fell behind.
2007-08-20 20:00:25
69.   Ravenscar
A lot of early swinging there by the Angels, seems like.
2007-08-20 20:01:05
70.   Yu-Hsing Chen
holy shit Prince Fielder caught A-rod ...

prediction: A-rod doubles, Matsui Single, Posada Walk, Cano Homer

2007-08-20 20:01:20
71.   Vandelay Industries
69 To be fair, PHil os only giving them about one pitch per AB to swing at.
2007-08-20 20:01:40
72.   RIYank
FYI, here are Moseley's OPS splits:

vs. righties .837
vs. lefties .648

2007-08-20 20:02:28
73.   williamnyy23
72 The Yankees have three hits...Jeter, Arod and Phillips...all righties.
2007-08-20 20:03:19
74.   Vandelay Industries
70 When was Arod's last HR anyway? I think it helps the Yankees keep him, as there are a few guys out there capable of equalling Arod's numbers, or surpassing them. Hard to ask for 30 million when you finish the year behind four or five guys.
2007-08-20 20:03:33
75.   Zack
Hughes' control has been off, hes nibbling etc. Thats the problem, not velocity, which, at least to espn has been around 93-95. Just remember Hughes is 21, hes still developing strength and as a pitcher in general, and will be for at least 3 more years. Add that to that he has consistently needed some time to adjust to each level (not much) and had almost no AAA time, plus is rusty from a long time off, and it all adds up to: DON'T WORRY!

I'll take 5-6 innings and 3-4 runs from a 21 year old. We have just come to expect more since a) he does and b) hes that good...

2007-08-20 20:04:37
76.   bobtaco
75 Plus the Angels are not the Rangers, they actually take pitches.
2007-08-20 20:04:43
77.   Eirias
That is a very nice season ticket seat.
2007-08-20 20:04:44
78.   Zack
God I hate the Angels. There is no reason we shouldn't be killing this guy
2007-08-20 20:04:47
79.   tommyl
Argh, and Mosely looking like Cy Young right now. Sigh.
2007-08-20 20:04:56
80.   Mike T
67 Definitely. As much as we don't like to listen to those obnoxious tools from Orange County talk about how their team owns us...they do. It's like the Yankees are afraid of the Angels.
2007-08-20 20:05:18
81.   Vandelay Industries
Hi-Dek-EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
2007-08-20 20:05:27
82.   Zack
Nice Hideki, the rare 3 bagger!
2007-08-20 20:05:27
83.   Mike T
Holy shit, a hit! Someone mark the date and time.
2007-08-20 20:05:40
84.   bobtaco
Nice Hideki, way to make Matthews eat that wall.
2007-08-20 20:05:47
85.   Shaun P
Go go Godzilla!
2007-08-20 20:05:50
86.   Ravenscar
Nice triple - I'm kind of surprised Matthews didn't get that one.

Too bad A-Rod wasn't on base.

2007-08-20 20:05:54
87.   tommyl
75 Sorry if I was misunderstood. I'm not worried about Phil long term. I am worried about this game though.
2007-08-20 20:06:23
88.   RIYank
Interesting, I'm sure Hideki was looking for that pitch! Low and off the outside corner.
2007-08-20 20:06:24
89.   seamus
GODZILLER!
2007-08-20 20:06:24
90.   Zack
76 Exactly. A much better offensive team.

Wow, that was very satisfying! Getting the run in from 3rd on an out!

2007-08-20 20:06:27
91.   Mike T
Damn, just a couple feet short on that. We'll take the run on Jorgie's groundout though.
2007-08-20 20:06:51
92.   Vandelay Industries
We can certainly win this game...but it does seem like the smell is off the roses that were Arod and Posada.
2007-08-20 20:07:27
93.   monkeypants
They're hitting the ball fairly sharply all over the field, but most of them seem to be finding Angels' gloves. This is shaping up to be a very frustrating evening. Just like that near miss by Cano.
2007-08-20 20:07:29
94.   tommyl
That is beyond fan interference.
2007-08-20 20:07:32
95.   williamnyy23
74 Arod is the league's OPS leader playing gold glove 3B...I am not sure four or five guys will finish "ahead" of him.
2007-08-20 20:07:37
96.   Ravenscar
Wow - that WAS close. I think it's about 6 inches foul, though.
2007-08-20 20:07:40
97.   Zack
87 Ok, good. Not allowed :)
2007-08-20 20:08:00
98.   tommyl
92 Sorry, A-Rod was something like 9-24 against the Tigers. That's bad?
2007-08-20 20:08:34
99.   Vandelay Industries
It would have landed foul, but the rule is that if the fan touches the ball in fair territory or otherwise interferes, its a double, which is exactly what the fan did.
2007-08-20 20:08:38
100.   Mike T
Dammit! Rob just missed a round tripper.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-08-20 20:08:41
101.   tommyl
97 Like I said, Rocket had an over 4 ERA his rookie year. I think he turned out pretty ok.
2007-08-20 20:08:53
102.   JeremyM
Isn't that interference?
2007-08-20 20:08:55
103.   seamus
92 huh? Arod is hitting .371 in his last 10 games.
2007-08-20 20:09:23
104.   Mike T
Unreal.
2007-08-20 20:09:24
105.   RIYank
92 You think? A-Rod is the VORP leader.

Hey, there is a reason that we're having trouble with Moseley: he's very good against lefties. That's the reason. It isn't some weird, inexplicable thing!
We need a few walks, and we'll be okay.

2007-08-20 20:09:30
106.   monkeypants
...and the return of ol' hacking Cano.
2007-08-20 20:09:37
107.   Yu-Hsing Chen
ehe, that Cano Homer predict came about 3 inch close lol
2007-08-20 20:09:53
108.   Vandelay Industries
98 No, I just don't remember seeing him pound the ball recently. I'm not being critical, just an observation.
2007-08-20 20:10:06
109.   williamnyy23
92 Arod's August OPS is .999; Posada's OPS in August is .927. That still smells pretty good to me.
2007-08-20 20:10:39
110.   tommyl
92 Do you literally want him to hit a HR every single AB? He's leading the majors in HRs, RBI, SLG and he's second in VORP to Hanley Ramirez. He'd be first if he was still playing SS.
2007-08-20 20:11:34
111.   tommyl
108 I guess if you mean he's having a worse month than April, then sure. He's slightly less than Roy Hobbs this month. This month he's just one of the best hitters in the game.
2007-08-20 20:11:35
112.   RIYank
109 Mmmmmmmm.

Okay, I'm gonna go smell that beer now. Get Hughes into line while I'm gone.

2007-08-20 20:12:04
113.   Zack
110 I love that Hanley has turned into an absolute beast, far more valuable than Beckett :)
2007-08-20 20:12:30
114.   williamnyy23
106 I think he is anxious to make amends for his two misplays, the last of which is probably responsible for all three runs.
2007-08-20 20:13:20
115.   Vandelay Industries
110 Yikes, I wasnt being critical, just noticed he has been hitting a lot of singles lately is all.
2007-08-20 20:13:51
116.   Zack
I would love to see a chart of Hughes' last three starts that show the location of his pitches vs. what was actually called a strike, b/c it sure seems like he has been given a very narrow zone to work with, and he keeps trying to nail the corners despite...therefore falling behind...
2007-08-20 20:14:21
117.   JeremyM
For you Sutcliffe fans, guess what the first name that came up was when the other idiot started talking about Little Leaguers in the majors. "The Red Sox captain!!!!!"
2007-08-20 20:15:07
118.   Mike T
Cathers wear white nail polish so the pitchers won't miss the signs. I didn't know that.
2007-08-20 20:15:07
119.   bobtaco
116 I'll agree with that, I think he was getting squeezed earlier.
2007-08-20 20:15:10
120.   OldYanksFan
Hughes is over-throwing. Do you see how many of his pitches are head high?
2007-08-20 20:15:37
121.   Zack
Nice inning Phil!
2007-08-20 20:15:46
122.   Mike T
Have a seat son.

Let's go guys!

2007-08-20 20:15:47
123.   Yu-Hsing Chen
I'm sorry Vandelay, but your string of comments in recent weeks have just been ridiculas, every time a guy goes 0 for 2 your on the brink of talking about releasing him or something
2007-08-20 20:15:50
124.   tommyl
Hughes is way more efficient this game. I know the Angels are a bit of a free swinging team, but the kid seems to learn.
2007-08-20 20:15:57
125.   williamnyy23
116 I think he was squeezed abit in the Kendrick AB. For some reason, Hughes seems to have an inning where he loses confidence and starts nibbling. It's almost like the Cano misplay made him more concerned about preventing that run than making quality pitches.
2007-08-20 20:15:57
126.   Ravenscar
Wow, even with that "Cano" inning he's only at 51 through 4. I'll take that. Now, RUNS, people.
2007-08-20 20:16:11
127.   JeremyM
120 The fastball appears to have good movement though.
2007-08-20 20:17:04
128.   tommyl
118 Its white out. Jorge was doing it earlier in the year too.
2007-08-20 20:17:16
129.   Zack
120 127 Agreed Jeremy, and the Angels seem to be swinging at it. I think its some overthrowing and somewhat on purpose
2007-08-20 20:17:42
130.   Max
75 At least he figured out how to pitch to Mathis this time. I know he's only 21 and recovering after being out for a while, but that second inning was Igawa-esque.

Hopefully, he's settling down now.

2007-08-20 20:17:53
131.   Mattpat11
Is Wakefield good in all domes?
2007-08-20 20:18:09
132.   Yu-Hsing Chen
you just said plenty of guys being able to catch him, dude, Gary Sheffield with 10 less HR is 4th in the AL, your essentially saying Sheff is going to hit 10+ for the rest of the season and A-rod isn't gonna hit any... AND another guy will do the same!
2007-08-20 20:18:29
133.   monkeypants
Andy Phillips...you can only hope to contain him.
2007-08-20 20:18:36
134.   Mattpat11
GO ANDY.
2007-08-20 20:19:07
135.   Yu-Hsing Chen
very strangely, Phillips seem to hit righties that does better against lefties or lefties that does worse to righties better
2007-08-20 20:19:27
136.   tommyl
Oh man, please do not bunt.
2007-08-20 20:19:29
137.   Mattpat11
130 No need to use the I word. Lets keep this civil.
2007-08-20 20:19:34
138.   Yankees Brasil
135 confusing..
2007-08-20 20:19:37
139.   monkeypants
Please, someone forbid Melky from bunting.
2007-08-20 20:19:38
140.   JeremyM
Maybe Melky and Posada should swing right-handed.....
2007-08-20 20:19:47
141.   williamnyy23
130 I put a little of the blame on Posada. Not only did he not "make" Hughes throw to the middle of the plate, but he seemed to call first pitch curve on every batter after Anderson (and Cabrera/Vlad) jumped on 1st pitch fastballs.
2007-08-20 20:20:13
142.   Zack
130 I think Igawa-esque is a bit harsh. He lost some control and gave up a double. That is hardly Igawa, who would have given up at least three HRs...
2007-08-20 20:20:30
143.   williamnyy23
135 Moselely is Phillips dream matchup.
2007-08-20 20:20:34
144.   OldYanksFan
Most of the Fox and ESPN announcers are bad, but Sudcliff makes me sick to my stomach. He is one long running verbal blowjob of the players.
2007-08-20 20:21:25
145.   tommyl
130 Unlike Igawa though, he recovered, got out of the inning and is pitching well since.
2007-08-20 20:21:35
146.   Vandelay Industries
123 Dude, I haven't talked about releasing anyone, relax. I was just making an observation. He has three home runs in August. His AVG. and OBP. are fine, I was simply pointing it out.
2007-08-20 20:21:45
147.   Mattpat11
143 Then buy him and trot him around the country with us. Anything to prevent a Stink return.
2007-08-20 20:21:50
148.   williamnyy23
144 The only time I enjoyed Sutcliffe is when he went on as a guest in San Diego, but just happened to also be drunk.
2007-08-20 20:22:32
149.   Zack
I hate the Angels...
2007-08-20 20:22:34
150.   tommyl
Way to run yourself out of an inning. Morons.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-08-20 20:22:36
151.   JeremyM
Geez, you think you should slide Phillips?
2007-08-20 20:22:41
152.   Mattpat11
Well that failed.

Perhaps Melky wanted a tee.

2007-08-20 20:22:56
153.   Mike T
Absolutely no excuse for that.
2007-08-20 20:22:56
154.   williamnyy23
Is it any wonder why the Yankees lose to the Angels? That's an awful job by Cabrera and a bad send by Joe, I think.
2007-08-20 20:23:02
155.   ny2ca2dc
117 What the hell is a Sutcliffe fan? some kind of brainless mutant?

chill actual Sutcliffe, if you do actually exist, just poking fun at one of the few guys to challenge Joe Morgans Supreme Idiocy.

WTF kind of steal was that. Someone better have missed a hit and run sign or something...

2007-08-20 20:23:02
156.   Vandelay Industries
Wow! Ugly play. I hate the Angels, but they so play some fundamentially sound baseball.
2007-08-20 20:23:05
157.   fansince77
Nice job Melk...that was shit on a shitstick.
2007-08-20 20:23:11
158.   tommyl
And now Damon will hit a double.
2007-08-20 20:23:24
159.   Benjamin Kabak
That's not exactly an ideal situation to send the runner.
2007-08-20 20:23:40
160.   monkeypants
Now the Angels are bringing out the overmanaging in Torre. This team is a curse.
2007-08-20 20:23:46
161.   Zack
Sutcliffe some how manages to mix up Hughes and Phillips
2007-08-20 20:23:59
162.   tommyl
154 Kay said, "Do you send him on 3-2?" And I yelled (to myself), "No!"
2007-08-20 20:24:16
163.   JeremyM
My mind can not comprehend what just happened there. What were they thinking?!?!
2007-08-20 20:24:28
164.   tommyl
See, you could have 1-2 with 1 out and Jeter up.
2007-08-20 20:24:31
165.   Benjamin Kabak
Yup. That just makes it even worse.
2007-08-20 20:24:32
166.   bobtaco
Jeter is going to hit a HR
2007-08-20 20:24:42
167.   Yankees Brasil
154 can't blame Joe.. Melky should have swung the bat there..right down the middle..
2007-08-20 20:24:50
168.   Benjamin Kabak
162 "Textbook" managing though :-p
2007-08-20 20:24:59
169.   Mattpat11
160 I think he sort of hoped that Melky might protect the plate in a two strike count.
2007-08-20 20:25:05
170.   mehmattski
156 Other than the whole loafing-on-a-easy-fly ball by Vlad thing that led to the first run. But that's the great thing about selective memory, I suppose...
2007-08-20 20:25:08
171.   Vandelay Industries
This would be a nice time for Jeter to pull a ball over the fence.
2007-08-20 20:25:08
172.   Benjamin Kabak
166 He doesn't do that anymore.
2007-08-20 20:25:22
173.   Zack
Why do ESPN announcers insist upon worshiping at the altar of the Angels?
2007-08-20 20:26:06
174.   ny2ca2dc
167 et al, K-zone had that pitch to Melky right on the inside, somewhat high. Not right down the plate.
2007-08-20 20:26:44
175.   tommyl
167 I can blame Joe. Its the 4th inning. Andy Phillips is slower than slow. He has no chance to steal the base, hell if the ball is hit hard to an infielder he might get thrown out at second anyways. Its the 4th inning, you're down a run against a spot starter and you have the best offense in the majors. Why play small ball? You don't trust Damon, Jeter or Abreu to get a run in?
2007-08-20 20:26:45
176.   Benjamin Kabak
174 It was a little inside but not exactly a borderline pitch. He shoulda swung.
2007-08-20 20:26:45
177.   monkeypants
167 I blame Joe for sending Phillips there. This is not a game, and that especially was not a circumstance, to gamble with baserunners. Cabrera failed in execution, but Tore (or whoever made the call) put his players in worse position to succeed.
2007-08-20 20:27:02
178.   Zack
How can a manager possible be intimidated by Torre? Respecting Torre is very different than being "afraid" of Torre. Suckcliffe is an idiot..
2007-08-20 20:27:06
179.   Vandelay Industries
172 I think he would hit more if he batted third. Which is what makes Alex such a freak, he can hit for power and average. I'm sure Ichiro could hit 30+ too, but he wouldn't be batting .300.
2007-08-20 20:27:36
180.   williamnyy23
177 I don't think it's a horrible move, but Phillips lack of speed combined with Moseley being a flyball pitcher seemed to suggest that you don't send the runner.
2007-08-20 20:27:38
181.   ny2ca2dc
176 Don't know what broadcast you're watching, but K-Zone had it right on the inside, well placed.
2007-08-20 20:27:38
182.   fansince77
If the Yankees lose...let's take a look at this fucking debacle!
2007-08-20 20:27:55
183.   Mike T
Jeter went to the Cano Golf School on that one.
2007-08-20 20:28:02
184.   monkeypants
177 That was meant for 175 .

And there the runner went on a hit and run, forcing Jeter to fish on a low ball. That's just squandering opportunities.

2007-08-20 20:28:13
185.   bobtaco
166 Well, that didn't work.
2007-08-20 20:28:35
186.   JeremyM
173 Why do the Yankees insist on playing their most bone-headed baseball against them? Ugh.

Sutcliffe just said that some managers don't "manage" against Torre (i.e. call pitch-outs, etc.) because they like him. Huh?

2007-08-20 20:28:57
187.   tommyl
170 or the double play. Look Sciosia just is super duper aggressive. Sometimes it works and then everyone goes, wow, see how the Angels put pressure on teams. Sometimes it doesn't and no one says anything.

Its like 2 years ago with the White Sox. Everyone said they were winning because of Ozzie ball, but really they were winning because they were like second in HRs in the AL. They'd have scored more if Ozzie had bunted and ran them into stupid outs.

2007-08-20 20:29:01
188.   Vandelay Industries
178 I tend to agree. Again, I hate the Angels, but Mike Scoscia is a very good in game manger. I don't know how he is with the players, but he is as good as anyone out there when it comes to managing the game on the field.
2007-08-20 20:29:03
189.   williamnyy23
Very bad AB by Jeter...2 runs against Moseley in 5 innings is unacceptable.
2007-08-20 20:29:04
190.   Mattpat11
And now we can't hit Shane Mosely.

Quite the half assed effort by everyone involved.

2007-08-20 20:29:17
191.   Zack
186 Worse than that. He said b/c they "are intimidated" by him
2007-08-20 20:29:32
192.   Benjamin Kabak
181 Dude. What are you talking about? I said it was inside but not borderline. In most people's worlds, that means an inside strike. Not a questionable call at all, as I said.

And I'm watching the YES broadcast.

2007-08-20 20:29:56
193.   Mike T
Yankess 6 hits 2 runs
Angels 3 hits 3 runs
2007-08-20 20:30:22
194.   Yu-Hsing Chen
HR in the AL

1.A-rod 39
2.Monraeu 28 <---

IF ANYONE in the league catches A-rod there, i'd eat my hat

2007-08-20 20:30:38
195.   tommyl
187 That's "had not"
2007-08-20 20:30:40
196.   Mattpat11
188 Everytime someone praises Scioscia, I like to point out how he basically single handedly cost the Angels the 2004 playoffs.
2007-08-20 20:31:04
197.   Benjamin Kabak
193 Yankees 0 BB
Angels 2 BB

There ya go. The Yanks are really making Moseley work the zone here I guess.

2007-08-20 20:31:19
198.   JeremyM
This is just some terrible managing from Torre, trying to out-Scioasa Scioasa or something.
2007-08-20 20:31:22
199.   Zack
hey Reggie,back to that batting cage you call a house!
2007-08-20 20:31:43
200.   claybeez
Hughes now seems to be spotting the fastball well, and low in the zone.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-08-20 20:32:02
201.   ny2ca2dc
192 For the third time, what i am saying is that Kzone had it right on the border. right. on. the. border.

and now Kzone just had Hughes' strike 3 a couple inches outside. ho hum

2007-08-20 20:32:52
202.   williamnyy23
188 Scoscia is good, but the Yankees are losing because:

1) Cano misplayed an out into a double.
2) Hughes had a momentary bout of wildness.
3) The Yankees have hit balls hard right at people and run themselves out of inning.

In other words, the Angels are winning because the Yankees are playing poorly. If anything, I don't think the Angels play particularly well against the Yankees, but instead the Yankees play poorly against the Angels.

2007-08-20 20:32:58
203.   Benjamin Kabak
201 Right, and I'm agreeing with you. But whatever.
2007-08-20 20:33:13
204.   Zack
Hughes is gonna be up and down in starts and even within games. As he develops and gains confidence and learns how to pitch major league hitters, he'll seem a bit spotty at times and probably throw more pitches than he should, but so be it. He does seem to be jamming the Angels a lot
2007-08-20 20:33:21
205.   Mattpat11
201 So he shouldn't be protecting the plate on a 2 strike count hit and run?
2007-08-20 20:34:01
206.   Mike T
Definitely not the guy to walk.
2007-08-20 20:34:14
207.   Benjamin Kabak
There ya go, Jorge. Great play.
2007-08-20 20:34:22
208.   williamnyy23
A 3-2 breaking ball to Figgins? That's what I don't get. Sure Hughes thre the pitch, but Posada has to demand the fastball.
2007-08-20 20:34:32
209.   JeremyM
I would not have went with the curve on the 3-2 count.
2007-08-20 20:34:49
210.   tommyl
Dear G-d Jorge Posada is good.
2007-08-20 20:34:51
211.   Mike T
Of course if you're gonna gun him down....
2007-08-20 20:34:58
212.   rsmith51
Way to go, Po!
2007-08-20 20:35:03
213.   Zack
That Soscia, terrible manager!
2007-08-20 20:35:16
214.   Benjamin Kabak
208 , 209 Now, that's more on Jorge than Phil, right?
2007-08-20 20:35:31
215.   monkeypants
198 Agree totally! Tha Angels are sucking the Yankees into their game. They 'put pressure' on the opposing team, or whatever--that's what the announcers keep saying. So, down by one run in the fourth or fifth inning, and Torre decides he has to put pressure on the Angels. So, he runs with Phillips (a slow runner), and tries to bunt with Cabrera (a terrible bunter), and then finishes the hat trick with a hit and run (or so I assume) with Jeter.

I'm not saying never bunt, or never try to steal...but you have to maximize your personnel's individual talents.

2007-08-20 20:35:49
216.   fansince77
F'in Hughes- Posada bails you out and you go three and o to Cabrera WTF!
2007-08-20 20:35:50
217.   Zack
Jorge doesn't seem to be the best at calling rooks, probably b/c he has had to do it so rarely...
2007-08-20 20:36:00
218.   JeremyM
214 I would agree, but I guess he just wanted to throw out that pest.
2007-08-20 20:36:07
219.   williamnyy23
That first pitch was a strike by the way...at least it has been all game.
2007-08-20 20:37:29
220.   Zack
216 Dude, take it easy. You have been all over Hughes all game...
2007-08-20 20:37:45
221.   Benjamin Kabak
Phil can't really be walking Orlando Cabrera. He'll swing at everything.
2007-08-20 20:37:49
222.   Mattpat11
Phil is DETERMINED to have someone on base for Vlad.
2007-08-20 20:37:55
223.   Mike T
This whole walking the Angels thing is not working for me, at all.
2007-08-20 20:38:05
224.   rsmith51
C'mon Hughes, throw freakin' strikes!
2007-08-20 20:38:14
225.   williamnyy23
The walks kind of concern me a little, more so in the short-term than the long-term.
2007-08-20 20:38:22
226.   fansince77
This is about to be Ballgame. Not a good combination. Hughes to Guerrero. Disaster
2007-08-20 20:38:36
227.   ny2ca2dc
215 Well said; one of the fundamentals of baseball is to not rashly get away from the approach that has brought you success - but the manager seems to think that doesn't apply to overall game management, at least when the Angels are involved...
2007-08-20 20:38:39
228.   Zack
See, no sweat
2007-08-20 20:38:42
229.   rsmith51
Phew, Phil!
2007-08-20 20:38:54
230.   fansince77
OK= gotabreak. But I don't think a high fastball was the best pitch.
2007-08-20 20:39:01
231.   Yu-Hsing Chen
wow, Hughes got Vladdy out 3 strait time with basically the same thing, fastball up and in.
2007-08-20 20:39:22
232.   3rd gen yankee fan
I trust Phil.
2007-08-20 20:39:31
233.   monkeypants
I just hope Torre doesn't panic and yank Hughes after 75 pitches or something crazy like that. Yeah, he's walked a few, but he is not pitching that bad of a game overall. He deserves a longer leash than Mussina got in that disaster on Thursday (which ruined my annual trip to the Stadium, by the way).
2007-08-20 20:39:31
234.   rsmith51
227 Remember that missed hit and run in 2005?
2007-08-20 20:39:38
235.   Benjamin Kabak
231 That's tempting fate :)
2007-08-20 20:40:43
236.   JeremyM
Hughes looks like crap in a lot of ways, yet you can still see where he's going to be a good and probably great pitcher. As opposed to a guy like Desalvo, who can look good but you can see is going to be a crappy pitcher.
2007-08-20 20:41:00
237.   Yu-Hsing Chen
230 it is against Vlad, he's a guy with a very weird zone, they went there everytime this game against him and got him out
2007-08-20 20:41:23
238.   Benjamin Kabak
236 That's a pretty strong indictment. I would hardly say Hughes looks like "crap." He may not be blowing everyone away (a la Joba), but he's certainly looking pretty good all things considered.
2007-08-20 20:41:36
239.   monkeypants
Gotta strike quick here, before the real Angels BP comes calling.
2007-08-20 20:41:37
240.   Mattpat11
Shane Moseley out of the game. Good job boys. You really took advantage of a poor starter.
2007-08-20 20:41:45
241.   williamnyy23
Damn it! Moseley is one pitcher you don't want out of the game. Not piling on runs against a mediocre pitcher is a real shame.
2007-08-20 20:41:56
242.   Mike T
Wow, we're into the Angels' pen already.
2007-08-20 20:42:05
243.   seamus
so, why is mosely done already?
2007-08-20 20:42:38
244.   SF Yanks
Alright, I've been switching back and forth between the Angels feed and ESPN and the ESPN radar is a consistent 3mph and sometimes 2mph ahead of the Angels radar. So I'm not sure whether Hughes is sitting around 95-96 or 92-93. Probably 92-93 since that's much more realistic. At first I was shocked to see him throw so hard but this helps explain things.
2007-08-20 20:42:48
245.   seamus
sweet!
2007-08-20 20:42:58
246.   Mike T
Come on Alex.
2007-08-20 20:42:58
247.   Benjamin Kabak
243 He's utterly terrible in that 75-100 pitch range.
2007-08-20 20:42:59
248.   JeremyM
238 Crap is too strong, but he's walking guys, missing spots, and really, really missing with his curve.
2007-08-20 20:43:00
249.   ny2ca2dc
243 cuz of 241 and 242 ....

Way to get'r going Bobby. And shut up Shitlift

2007-08-20 20:43:01
250.   fansince77
Hows that suttcliffe "the style" of an annoying fucking announcer...are you on crack or something?
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2007-08-20 20:43:05
251.   williamnyy23
243 Scioscia is quitting while he is ahead. Moseley was going to get tagged sooner or later.
2007-08-20 20:43:11
252.   Mattpat11
236 People disagree with me, but I really think DeSalvo was the worst of the whole lot of AA pitchers we saw this year. Even in his good games you saw disaster around the corner.
2007-08-20 20:43:36
253.   seamus
247 ok. I was surprised because he was at least good on getting ahead of the hitters. this guy has gone 1-0 on both abreu and arod.
2007-08-20 20:44:10
254.   ny2ca2dc
248 Changeup hasn't been great either - he uncorked a number of em.

244 Ah. that helps

2007-08-20 20:44:23
255.   rsmith51
Nice, Alex!
2007-08-20 20:44:23
256.   bobtaco
WOW!
2007-08-20 20:44:26
257.   seamus
that was for vandelay! :)
2007-08-20 20:44:29
258.   Mattpat11
Kay had the good kind of jinx
2007-08-20 20:44:29
259.   Zack
There's that A-Rod bomb, take that Prince!
2007-08-20 20:44:30
260.   Mike T
Just what we needed.
2007-08-20 20:44:30
261.   JeremyM
That was beautiful!! OH HELL YES!!
2007-08-20 20:44:30
262.   tommyl
yeah, he has now power anymore.
2007-08-20 20:44:34
263.   williamnyy23
There's your power.
2007-08-20 20:44:46
264.   monkeypants
A-Rod just isn't driving the ball lately. Only singles. The bloom is off that rose.
2007-08-20 20:44:47
265.   ny2ca2dc
How do you like me (A-Rod) now, Mr. Vandelay Industries?!?!?!

How you like me now, Prince Fielder!

2007-08-20 20:44:51
266.   Benjamin Kabak
That one got out in a hurry.
2007-08-20 20:45:07
267.   williamnyy23
Cashman should hire Boras as the new equipment manager.
2007-08-20 20:45:09
268.   Yu-Hsing Chen
Meh.. expected
2007-08-20 20:45:25
269.   3rd gen yankee fan
238 I agree, I think he looks exactly like a 21-year-old pitching phenom should look.

and YAY AROD.

2007-08-20 20:45:31
270.   Zack
Wow, did you hear those #s A-rod had against this pitcher? How can you let him face him if you are Soscia?
2007-08-20 20:46:34
271.   rsmith51
Nice of Mikey to take out Mosely...
2007-08-20 20:46:49
272.   JeremyM
I love Was Watching, but I can hear Steve typing his A-Rod likes to hit in Anaheim and is going to sign there story already.....
2007-08-20 20:47:01
273.   ny2ca2dc
Here it comes now. Payback for all those sharp liners right at outfielders in the earlier innings.
2007-08-20 20:47:08
274.   Yu-Hsing Chen
270 because his Soscia, he got balls, he manage a gritty team.
2007-08-20 20:47:14
275.   monkeypants
OK...no hit and run, no weird bunting by Posada, etc.
2007-08-20 20:47:59
276.   monkeypants
272

: )

That's funny stuff!

2007-08-20 20:48:05
277.   tommyl
Also Scioscia is a great manager. Taking out a guy with 72 pitches who has basically kept the Yankees down, to bring in a guy that A-Rod has dominated.
2007-08-20 20:48:25
278.   williamnyy23
Ouch Jorgie...those were two nice pitches to hit!
2007-08-20 20:49:16
279.   williamnyy23
3-2 count...I'm going on record...DONT send the runner.
2007-08-20 20:49:17
280.   tommyl
C'mon Jorgie, get on base. I want a big inning.
2007-08-20 20:49:26
281.   Mattpat11
270 This is a man, who, in a do or die situation in an elimination game in extras on the road in the playoffs, brought in any old lefty to pitch to David Ortiz.

He's not NEARLY the genius people think he is.

2007-08-20 20:49:33
282.   seamus
nice AB!
2007-08-20 20:49:47
283.   rsmith51
I really like Bootcheck...
2007-08-20 20:49:48
284.   monkeypants
277 To be fair, you can't blame Scioscia too much for pulling him. He's a spot starter, and opposing batters hit .400 off of him after he reaches 70 pitches. They got exactly what they hoped for from him--five or six innings and only a couple of runs.
2007-08-20 20:49:58
285.   Benjamin Kabak
Good to see Joe having another not-so-fast runner going on a 3-2 pitch with no outs...even if Jorge did walk.
2007-08-20 20:50:02
286.   RIYank
You guys did a GREAT job while I was gone. I passed a screen that showed the K-CS DP and was getting irritated, but you juiced one for Hobbes, so no problem.
2007-08-20 20:50:22
287.   3rd gen yankee fan
Didn't we kick the crap out of Bootcheck earlier in the year too?
2007-08-20 20:50:24
288.   Mike T
Come on guys, good opportunity here.
2007-08-20 20:50:26
289.   rsmith51
You win a WS and you are all of a sudden a genius.
2007-08-20 20:50:32
290.   williamnyy23
284 I agree...Moseley was a candidate to get rocked too. I would have pulled him and went to the bullpen for 4 innings.
2007-08-20 20:50:45
291.   tommyl
284 I know, but I'm sick of people pointing out every great move he makes and ignoring the ones that don't work out.
2007-08-20 20:50:51
292.   monkeypants
279 I agree with you. But he did send Matsui (though fortunately the pitch was a ball).
2007-08-20 20:51:15
293.   seamus
does sutcliffe have a clue?
2007-08-20 20:51:38
294.   Mike T
Oops.
2007-08-20 20:51:44
295.   tommyl
I repeat: I hate the Angels.
2007-08-20 20:51:47
296.   williamnyy23
More bad luck...I think...crap.
2007-08-20 20:52:15
297.   JeremyM
I love Cano, I hate Cano, I love Cano, I hate Cano, I love Cano, I hate Cano, I love Cano, I hate Cano, I love Cano, I hate Cano, I love Cano, I hate Cano.....
2007-08-20 20:52:24
298.   Yu-Hsing Chen
Sutcliff is da jinx!!!

Bootcheck is great gets bombed

Cano will hit it hard yeah.. but right back at the pitcher

2007-08-20 20:52:41
299.   rsmith51
Crud... I was hoping for one more...
2007-08-20 20:52:42
300.   Yankees Brasil
Need more runs..
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2007-08-20 20:52:59
301.   Benjamin Kabak
297 That wasn't Cano's fault. He hit the ball hard and Bootcheck had to basically defend himself.
2007-08-20 20:53:06
302.   williamnyy23
Not scoring more runs gives me that "this could come back to haunt them" feeling.
2007-08-20 20:53:07
303.   ny2ca2dc
297 Decent approach by Robinson though, going up the middle. Real good pick by Bootcheck. Bastard
2007-08-20 20:53:44
304.   tommyl
From Pete Abe:

Most 40-home run seasons
Babe Ruth 11
Barry Bonds 8
Hank Aaron 8
Harmon Killebrew 8
Alex Rodriguez 8

That's some rarefied air up there, huh?

2007-08-20 20:54:53
305.   williamnyy23
If you looked at this game aside from results, you'd think the Yankees were the much better team, yet, it is still 4-3.
2007-08-20 20:55:48
306.   Zack
Ahh, unnecessary Nolan Ryan love...
2007-08-20 20:56:00
307.   Yu-Hsing Chen
Fox talks about Nolan Ryan, Mets fan commite suicide
2007-08-20 20:56:03
308.   tommyl
C'mon kid.
2007-08-20 20:56:35
309.   Mattpat11
Kay does a lot of little things that irk me that I should probably overlook.

But the fact that this man CAN NOT READ OUTFIELDERS is unacceptable for a baseball announcer. His inability to read the ball of the bat isn't even as bad as this.

He seems to look at the swing, decide what he thinks the ball "should" do and call that play, completely ignoring the massive right fielder that is standing waiting for the ball to land in his glove. He thought that ball would bloop, so he was going to call it a blooper as Vlad stood under it.

It DRIVE ME NUTS.

2007-08-20 20:57:02
310.   cult of basebaal
c'mon hughes ... mow 'em down
2007-08-20 20:57:17
311.   Vandelay Industries
See guys, all I had to do was point it out and BANG, Arod dinger. You should be thanking me :)
2007-08-20 20:57:31
312.   SF Yanks
306 Never unnecessary. Nolan's the man.
2007-08-20 20:57:47
313.   williamnyy23
309 At least on TV you can judge for yourself. False hope only btohers me on the radio.
2007-08-20 20:58:22
314.   SF Yanks
Great story Sutclif! That was fantastic! Thanks for sharing!!!!
2007-08-20 20:58:38
315.   Mattpat11
313 I'm not always staring right at the Tv though. I was typing here when he made that call.
2007-08-20 20:58:44
316.   Zack
312 To me, always unnecessary. Nolan's the overrated man. Me, I'll take Gibson any day.
2007-08-20 20:59:01
317.   Vandelay Industries
Only 77 pitches? Does Joe bring him out for the seventh if he gets out of this inning with 10-12 more pitches?
2007-08-20 20:59:19
318.   seamus
hughes looking good now. (knocks on wood)
2007-08-20 20:59:59
319.   tommyl
Hughes is just crrrruuuuuiiissssingggg
2007-08-20 21:00:09
320.   Vandelay Industries
315 I know. How dare he put the K record and BB record out of reach forever!
2007-08-20 21:00:10
321.   seamus
great, sutcliffe. glad you were going to try and hit the guy in the head and ruin his career. ass.
2007-08-20 21:00:14
322.   Zack
Def Phil for the 7th
2007-08-20 21:00:18
323.   RIYank
This ump is just terrible. For both sides. Phil got a very generous call there.
2007-08-20 21:00:26
324.   Max
215 227 I didn't like all the running and small ball tactics against a spot starter and flyball pitcher early in this game, but I think it's a bit extreme to complain about "getting sucked into" someone else's game. We "got sucked into" their game when we beat them 14-9 in our house, and though it wasn't pretty, we got our share of runs going first to third and getting extra bases.

But if A-Rod wants to hit HRs like that last one, I'm OK with that too.

2007-08-20 21:01:00
325.   cult of basebaal
i'd keep him in for the 7th ... get The Deuce stretching at the beginning, though, just in case ...
2007-08-20 21:01:03
326.   Shaun P
289 See also: Guillen, Ozzie.

I don't think Ozzie is a genius either, but he does manage his bullpen very very well. Come to think of it, that's supposed to be Scoscia's hallmark too.

So, Hughes back out for the 7th, Viz and Mo to finish?

2007-08-20 21:01:14
327.   williamnyy23
Hughes first strike curve seems to be a much loopier than his out pitch curve. It seems as if when he gets hit on the curve, it's the get me over variety.

Even though his velocity seems to be down, his fastball is definitely explosive. If he refinds the extra 1-2 mph, he definitely as ace potential. If he stays at 92mph, he may "only" be a Mussina-type.

2007-08-20 21:01:15
328.   RIYank
322 Yeah, because then Viz and Mo can finish. Though I think Phil is tiring -- the fastball is a little slower.
2007-08-20 21:01:38
329.   tommyl
Hughes can go 8 maybe? He's only at 81 right now.
2007-08-20 21:01:39
330.   Mattpat11
Who would want that folder?
2007-08-20 21:02:03
331.   RIYank
324 Well said.
2007-08-20 21:02:26
332.   tommyl
327 Dude, Moose was a legit ace earlier in his career.
2007-08-20 21:02:26
333.   SF Yanks
316 I just love Nolan. He may be overrated to some. Not to me.

Hughes is looking SHARP right now. He's attacking the hitters like he did in the 1st inning, which seems like he does in the 1st inning of every game. Now why can't he have the same approach every inning?

2007-08-20 21:02:55
334.   Vandelay Industries
It is a sad day indeed when Rex Hudler and company here on the west coast are more professional and better "broadcasters" than the "Worldwide Leader." Shouldn't Sutcliff be drunk by now anyway?

I am surprised they found the time to braodcast an MLB game with all their mouths wrapped around Goddell's cock so tightly.

2007-08-20 21:03:03
335.   RIYank
Bootcheck has nothing.
2007-08-20 21:04:01
336.   Vandelay Industries
333 I find it had to believe that Nolan Ryan is considered overrated by anyone. But then again, some think Rose was overrated too. Go figure.
2007-08-20 21:04:11
337.   Zack
327 Moose wasn't an ace type?
What will make or break Hughes is not is velocity but his control, thats always been the case. He has been throwing 91-93 all game and for the past few starts. Thats good. He may add a mph or two as he ages and gets stronger, but, like Santana, his games is control and nasty off speed stuff
2007-08-20 21:04:52
338.   williamnyy23
332 I was being a little facetious (hence, the quotes around only). Moose had several season of ace quality and is a border line HoFamer, but he lacked the consistency of a dominant ace. If Hughes could have Moose's career, I'd sign up right now.
2007-08-20 21:04:56
339.   Mattpat11
332 Hell, he was an ace in 2001. I still don't understand how he not only didn't win the Cy Young, but finished no where near it.
2007-08-20 21:05:29
340.   Vandelay Industries
337 I sure hope the Sox don't have the prospects to get him next year.
2007-08-20 21:05:49
341.   Zack
336 Why is it hard to believe? The guy is often cited as the greatest pitcher ever or even in the top ten almost entirely because he could throw very very hard...

333 Fair enough

2007-08-20 21:06:02
342.   williamnyy23
334 Anyone else hear the priceless audio of Sutcliffe drunk in the San Diego booth last year (or two years ago)?
2007-08-20 21:06:03
343.   Mike T
Nolan Ryan has seven no hitters. He played for something like 26 seasons. Overrated? Ummm....
2007-08-20 21:06:24
344.   tommyl
Um, no Giambi PH here?
2007-08-20 21:06:51
345.   RIYank
341 Those no-hitters were kind of impressive, even if he did get them just by throwing very hard.
2007-08-20 21:06:54
346.   Mike T
342 That rings a bell.
2007-08-20 21:06:59
347.   SF Yanks
336 Yeah, I don't know what else you can ask for in a pitcher. I know he walked a ton, but c'mon, 7 no-hitters!! The man was a machine.
2007-08-20 21:07:04
348.   Zack
340 Oh they do. And If I were them, I would, without a doubt, offer Bucholhz and Ellisbury for Santana. They have the $ to sign him long term, and a big three of Santana, Dice-k, and Beckett would be sick
2007-08-20 21:07:48
349.   Mike T
Exactly what we didn't need.
2007-08-20 21:07:49
350.   Mattpat11
This game has that bad feeling.
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2007-08-20 21:07:55
351.   tommyl
339 He didn't win 20 games. Everyone who knows baseball knows that's the only benchmark for a pitcher. Not this fancy shmancy WHIP stuff. You into bondage? (Ok, I'll stop channeling Chass now).

Great job Johnny.

2007-08-20 21:08:02
352.   JeremyM
Damn, that was a good play.
2007-08-20 21:08:08
353.   Yu-Hsing Chen
Wow... shitty luck
2007-08-20 21:08:10
354.   williamnyy23
Another missed opportunity forfeited by bad luck...there goes that queasy feeling again.
2007-08-20 21:08:23
355.   OldYanksFan
Could our luck get worse? Geez. We will score some more.
2007-08-20 21:08:54
356.   tommyl
I have a bad feeling about this.
2007-08-20 21:08:56
357.   RIYank
344 Anyone to PH. Duncan. Betemit. Molina. Damon could be the worst hitter on the team right now.
2007-08-20 21:09:15
358.   Vandelay Industries
343 Yup yup. There isn't a guy pitching right now who will have more than two, if that. One can be a fluke, two can be lucky, but seven is seven is seven is seven for God's sake. Who was the last pitcher who could walk to guys on purpose because he knew he could strike out the third guy and get out of the inning?
2007-08-20 21:10:36
359.   williamnyy23
340 Boston is a "lucky" because from what I have read, their can't miss prospects really aren't as can't miss as the Yankees. I've already started reading some scouts back away from Buchholz' projections.
2007-08-20 21:10:43
360.   JeremyM
I honestly think the Red Sox could offer Alex Cora and Doug Mirabelli and some dubious can't-miss* "prospect" for Santana, and they'd get him. Look at what they gave up for Pedro- a whole lot of overhyped nothing.

*per Peter Gammons and Baseball America

2007-08-20 21:11:04
361.   RIYank
Very, very strange. When Bootcheck was completely distracted by Melky, he threw only strikes (except for the pitchouts), and decent ones. With nobody on he walked Melk on four, and can't throw strikes to Jeter.
2007-08-20 21:11:07
362.   tommyl
358 Cone, David.
2007-08-20 21:11:19
363.   monkeypants
336 343 Nolan Ryan is definitely overrated by those who think he was the greatest pitcher of all time, as 341 points out. An all time great? No doubt. One of the very few best? Nope. No matter how many no-hitters he threw.
2007-08-20 21:11:26
364.   Vandelay Industries
348 And the Yankees won't, and shouldn't. But that makes for one scary rotation in beantown.
2007-08-20 21:11:48
365.   Zack
347 he also walked 2,795 guys, lost 292 games, had a career era+ of 112. Yeah, the no hitters are awesome, don't get me wrong. And I'm not even saying he wasn't a very good pitcher. But even top 50? Nah
2007-08-20 21:12:24
366.   Mattpat11
363 Agreed.
2007-08-20 21:12:34
367.   SF Yanks
363 How do you figure? Just curious.
2007-08-20 21:12:41
368.   RIYank
If you go to the Hall of Fame, look at the wall of no-hitters. Ryan is all over the place. It feels the way looking at the Babe's numbers feels.
2007-08-20 21:13:01
369.   Vandelay Industries
360 That is silly. They will have so many offers, and the Pedro situation could not have been more different. A stud vs. a skinny "maybe."
2007-08-20 21:13:45
370.   tommyl
368 If you go to the hall of fame, you won't see Burt Blyleven's plaque, or Goose Gossage's. What's your point?
2007-08-20 21:15:05
371.   williamnyy23
369 Skinny maybe? What about the NL CY Young award in the season before?
2007-08-20 21:15:14
372.   Mattpat11
Or Jim Rice.
2007-08-20 21:15:26
373.   Zack
let me put it this way: if i wanted a pitcher to throw the ball really hard or give me a lot of innings, I would choose Ryan. But if I wanted a pitcher to win me a game, pitch a huge inning, or even strike out one guy, would I take Ryan? Nope, strikeout record and all. And I would probably take about 50 guys before Ryan to win the game...
2007-08-20 21:15:27
374.   RIYank
370 Huh?
That the seven no-hitters are mind-boggling when they're displayed graphically.

What do Gossage and Blyleven have to do with it?

2007-08-20 21:15:34
375.   JeremyM
365 I'm not being funny, but I think wins/losses are a terrible way to judge a pitcher. I see what you're saying, but he played for some pretty lousy clubs.
2007-08-20 21:16:08
376.   Mattpat11
Here we go. The double plays come back to haunt us this inning.
2007-08-20 21:16:15
377.   Zack
Ugh, now Joe will pull Hughes. This game makes me nervous
2007-08-20 21:16:17
378.   williamnyy23
Uh oh...why does that hit feel like big trouble?
2007-08-20 21:16:29
379.   JeremyM
369 I'm being facetious of course...
2007-08-20 21:16:55
380.   Mike T
Bunt this!...lol
2007-08-20 21:17:20
381.   RIYank
Look, if you are going to get one great season, take Pedro or Koufax or someone else. But for a career? Ryan is in the stratosphere. Maybe Rocket is up there too, but who else?
2007-08-20 21:17:50
382.   Vandelay Industries
371 There was still a lot of speculation about his frame and ability to stay healthy. Not the case with Johan. Hey I like Pedro, but many were right, the guys career is over and he is in his low 30's. Clemens has pitched for more than 10 years past the age that Pedro is now.
2007-08-20 21:18:06
383.   williamnyy23
381 I don't think Ryan is even in the top-20 to be honest.
2007-08-20 21:18:27
384.   monkeypants
367 See 365 . Ryan was a freak, no doubt. He was super-durable and threw really hard. He was teh greatest K pitcher of all time. But he was wild, and his career ERA was not all that good. A few days ago there was a debate over whether Glavine belonged in the HOF, just because he was very good (but not great) for a really long time. But looking at his ERA+, Glavine has had a better career than Ryan. In fact, Ryan only had one season with a peak ERA+ (1981) better than Glavine's peak seasons. Now, I'm not saying that one is better than the other, but if you look beyond the Ks, Ryan had some real weaknesses as a pitcher.
2007-08-20 21:19:07
385.   tommyl
374 My point was that the HOF isn't always the great arbiter of things.
2007-08-20 21:19:14
386.   Yu-Hsing Chen
I think there's no question that Nolan's a slam dunk hall of famer though, but yeah saying he's the best of all time is pushign it, he's career ERA+ is significantly worse than a guy that many here are bashing into oblivion these days... Mike Mussina

It's ridiculas, Mike Mussina, if he has either 2 more good seasons or a great playoff performance... is a hall of famer. he's career is really exactly equal and somewhat better than Curt Schilling's minus the post season dramatics

2007-08-20 21:19:17
387.   williamnyy23
382 I think Pedro's 1995-1997 seasons dispelled those notions.
2007-08-20 21:19:31
388.   Zack
382 Longevity doesn't make a career great per se. Like I said, i would take at least 50 guys before Ryan. But that's me...
2007-08-20 21:20:21
389.   tommyl
I love how Gameday has that ball literally on the corner (outside and low) but called a ball.
2007-08-20 21:20:27
390.   williamnyy23
That's how important Melky's arm is...if that's Damon, Kendrick is on 2nd.
2007-08-20 21:20:41
391.   Mattpat11
384 And Mussina has had a better career than Glavine and he gets no Hall consideration.

It really is a sham in a lot of ways.

2007-08-20 21:21:38
392.   Zack
391 If Moose were a self promoting blowhard who made sure everyone knew he had a bloody sock, it might be a different story
2007-08-20 21:21:47
393.   RIYank
384 Fair enough. But ERA+ is an average statistic. It ignores the length of Ryan's career.
2007-08-20 21:21:51
394.   cult of basebaal
seems to me, the purpose of pitchers is to prevent runs ... on the whole, nolan ryan wasn't exceptional at that ... his career era+ is only 112

he had one exceptional year when he had a 194 era+, he had another 2 at 130+, everything else was good but not great (in the context of preventing runs)

for comparison ... santana's had 6 consecutive years of 150+

ryan threw a ton of innings and had a wonderful career, he's a hall of famer, but he's nowhere close to my idea of a guy i'd pick for 1 season or 1 game ...

2007-08-20 21:22:04
395.   williamnyy23
391 I disagree...Glavine's 1,000 extra innings count for a lot.
2007-08-20 21:22:26
396.   williamnyy23
Come on Phil...don't lose the zone now...we all know Willets is taking.
2007-08-20 21:22:38
397.   RIYank
385 I wasn't appealing to it as an arbiter.
2007-08-20 21:22:47
398.   Zack
Come on Phil!
2007-08-20 21:22:57
399.   Mike T
3-0 to a guy he's struck out twice?
2007-08-20 21:23:12
400.   monkeypants
381 Look objectively at his career ERA and ERA+, and at his peak years. There are plenty of comparable or better pitchers--Rocket, Seaver, Carlton, Glavine, Maddux, Unit, Blyleven, just to name some guys since the 1960s.
Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2007-08-20 21:23:16
401.   williamnyy23
Damn I hate that pitch out! Why put the kid in the hole of the bat.
2007-08-20 21:23:35
402.   Mattpat11
386 I will say it until I'm blue in the face. Mike Mussina is a Hall of Famer. But he doesn't have OMG WINS, so the idiots that consider this overlook him.
2007-08-20 21:24:04
403.   Zack
Ugh, not good. And here comes Joe to bring in the bp.
2007-08-20 21:24:12
404.   cult of basebaal
argh ... fucking walks
2007-08-20 21:24:12
405.   JeremyM
Ugh, come on Phil.
2007-08-20 21:24:26
406.   RIYank
Crap. I thought he had Willits.
2007-08-20 21:24:27
407.   Yankees Brasil
that stupid pitchout
2007-08-20 21:24:32
408.   tommyl
I hate the Angels
2007-08-20 21:24:46
409.   Vandelay Industries
Fucking Joe Torre sometimes. He let Hughes walk right into that with the unessesary pitch-outs and throws over. UGH!
2007-08-20 21:24:54
410.   Mattpat11
395 Thats 1000 estra innings in 4 more years.
2007-08-20 21:24:55
411.   williamnyy23
It's amazing...these games against Anaheim are all the same. The Yankees squander opportunities and then give it up late.

I think Torre's decision to pitch out is going to loom large here. Willet's MO is to take a strike, so there was no need to throw one wide.

2007-08-20 21:24:55
412.   Zack
So now we have Viz for an inning+
2007-08-20 21:26:15
413.   JeremyM
411 You think Torre would pitch-out to Wade Boggs on the first pitch too?
2007-08-20 21:26:35
414.   Vandelay Industries
393 I agree. Mickey Mantle must be horrible because he wasn't a .300 hitter at the end right?
2007-08-20 21:27:06
415.   williamnyy23
410 And? Glavine has an ERA+ of 119 in 4,200 IP, while Moose is at 123 in 3,300. If Moose pitches 1000 more, he wont be at 119.
2007-08-20 21:27:22
416.   RIYank
414 And Mays.
2007-08-20 21:27:33
417.   tommyl
I can barely watch this.
2007-08-20 21:27:33
418.   williamnyy23
I feel like I am watching a horror movie.
2007-08-20 21:27:54
419.   Yu-Hsing Chen
dispite him doing well for a while now, i have little faith in the Viz
2007-08-20 21:28:36
420.   monkeypants
393 Ryan had a 27 year carer, though his first couple of years and last year were abbreviated. Nearly all the guys I mentioned in 400 pitched 20+ years. At a certain point, longevity produces diminishing returns.
2007-08-20 21:28:39
421.   Vandelay Industries
I do like this move. At least Joe is going to his best option first!
2007-08-20 21:29:00
422.   Zack
Come on Viz!
2007-08-20 21:30:03
423.   williamnyy23
Every foul ball scares me even more.
2007-08-20 21:30:05
424.   Vandelay Industries
Again, another reason why even if Farny were any good, it was a bad signing, too much money for a piece of shit who can't pitch two days in a row.
2007-08-20 21:30:13
425.   cult of basebaal
414 well, you might have a point if ryan had a decline phase, but he was essentially the same pitcher right until the end ... if anything, the end of his career saw an increase in his era+, he pitched fewer innings but was more effective
2007-08-20 21:30:46
426.   JeremyM
I feel the same way about Viz as Don Corleone felt about Hyman Roth: I respect him but I don't trust him.
2007-08-20 21:30:54
427.   monkeypants
414 You can do better than that. BA is a relatively silly average stat to look at. Why not focus on Mantle's career OPS or OPS+?
2007-08-20 21:31:11
428.   tommyl
I fucking hate the Angels and Chone Figgins.
2007-08-20 21:31:12
429.   cult of basebaal
fucking walks, fucking angels
2007-08-20 21:31:17
430.   Zack
Fuck, who didn't see that coming. F'ing Angels and f'ing Figgins
2007-08-20 21:31:19
431.   RIYank
Yuck.
2007-08-20 21:31:28
432.   Yu-Hsing Chen
419 oh lord...
2007-08-20 21:31:52
433.   monkeypants
Sigh. This game is so predictable.
2007-08-20 21:31:55
434.   Vandelay Industries
FUCK! Was it too much to ask to just let Hughes go after the batters without all the damn pitch-outs! He's 21, let him go after the batters, don't screw with him!
2007-08-20 21:31:58
435.   JeremyM
This day started off bad, with my passenger window bashed in and my CD player ripped off. And now this, the same old freaking story.
2007-08-20 21:32:09
436.   williamnyy23
Incredible...I don't know if the Yankees think they can't beat the Angels, but I know I don't. All those opportunities really hurt now...if the Wild Card means playing the Angels, the Yankees better win the division.
2007-08-20 21:32:12
437.   Mattpat11
And the Yankees ONCE AGAIN invent a way to lose to this fucking team.

We'll meet them in the playoffs and lose to them in humiliating fashion AGAIN because they're in our heads.

2007-08-20 21:32:18
438.   Zack
Freaking inherited runners and LOB
2007-08-20 21:32:47
439.   RIYank
A DP would be huge here. Otherwise, Vlad with a chance to break it open...
2007-08-20 21:33:27
440.   tommyl
Oh hell, we're losing this game.
2007-08-20 21:33:28
441.   JeremyM
Why did I even bother watching?
2007-08-20 21:33:31
442.   Zack
Ridiculous.
2007-08-20 21:33:41
443.   Yu-Hsing Chen
I want to say fuck you Viz, but he really just isn't that good to begin with
2007-08-20 21:33:47
444.   Benjamin Kabak
Stellar. Just stellar. Maybe Luis Vizcaino saying his arm is sore is a warning sign, not an invitation to bring him in after just a day off.
2007-08-20 21:33:49
445.   bobtaco
Well, just think if Joba Rules didn't apply, they would have won tonight.
2007-08-20 21:34:09
446.   cult of basebaal
jesus, i can't stands no more ... i'm just glad i didn't go to the game tonite ... goddamn angels
2007-08-20 21:34:10
447.   williamnyy23
434 I agree...maybe I am looking for a reason to blame Torre, but I really think that pitch out set up the inning.

Viz was bound to implode...he really isn't a good matchup for an Angels team that slaps the ball the other way.

Another text book loss to the Angels...fucking incredible.

2007-08-20 21:34:14
448.   Mattpat11
Yankees lose.

THAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Yankees lose.

Fucking embarrassing. No other words.

2007-08-20 21:34:16
449.   RIYank
Ouch. That one really hurt.
Late inning rally?
2007-08-20 21:34:17
450.   tommyl
Might as well bring in Kyle Farnsworth at this point.
Show/Hide Comments 451-500
2007-08-20 21:34:18
451.   Zack
Don't worry, now that both IR have scored, we
'll get the dp.

And now Sutcliff is saying that being fast on the basepaths is better than hitting hrs...

2007-08-20 21:34:26
452.   Ravenscar
Edwar up a day late and a dollar short, Torre.
2007-08-20 21:35:08
453.   Zack
445 The Joba rules are a good thing
2007-08-20 21:35:08
454.   cult of basebaal
445 and if your aunt had balls, she'd be your uncle ... as they say
2007-08-20 21:35:28
455.   Yanks Fan in Chicago
I fucking hate the Hell's Angels so much!
2007-08-20 21:35:30
456.   Mattpat11
449 No. We can't beat this team. Why even bother trying?
2007-08-20 21:35:41
457.   Yankees Brasil
Our BP has to lead the league in inheritted runners being allowed to score..
2007-08-20 21:35:58
458.   bobtaco
Did Jeter forget how many outs there were?
2007-08-20 21:36:10
459.   Vandelay Industries
What can you do? They are simply better than we are head to head, year after year, nothing more can be said.
2007-08-20 21:36:17
460.   Ravenscar
Jesus, they can throw a 55 mph meatball to A-Rod now leading off and it won't matter that much.
2007-08-20 21:36:19
461.   tommyl
I wouldn't bring in Edwar here. He threw 2 innings yesterday. Bring in Kyle, this game is over anyways.
2007-08-20 21:36:21
462.   cult of basebaal
alright ... i gotta run an errand ... anything to switch this shit up ...
2007-08-20 21:36:24
463.   51cq24
so vizcaino goes to joe and tells him he's too sore and tired to pitch, joe gives him the day off, then puts him in the biggest situation of the next day's game.
2007-08-20 21:36:25
464.   seamus
458 no chance at the DP there.
2007-08-20 21:36:29
465.   Mattpat11
453 If we're going to bring a player up only to handcuff ourselves, we might as well leave him in the minors.
2007-08-20 21:36:47
466.   Vandelay Industries
Don't hate the Angels. That isn't where the anger should be directed.
2007-08-20 21:36:54
467.   williamnyy23
Great...if I ever get to sleep I am going to dream about a pitch out.
2007-08-20 21:36:56
468.   Mike T
This game is most likely over. I hope I'm wrong, but I doubt that I am.
2007-08-20 21:36:57
469.   bobtaco
453 Not saying it's bad. I agree with the rules. It's just that if Joba was in, he would have held the lead.
2007-08-20 21:37:16
470.   Vandelay Industries
Finally! A Yankees Suck chant that I actually agree with.
2007-08-20 21:37:17
471.   JeremyM
These Yankees suck chants are so ball-less it blows my mind. Anyone can chant that when their up, I didn't hear a peep before this inning. Assholes.
2007-08-20 21:37:18
472.   Mattpat11
Can't say I disagree with the crowd.
2007-08-20 21:37:24
473.   Zack
459 No, the problem is, they aren't better. They just seem to outplay us and Torre screws things up often as well.

Ok, down by two, we can do this.

2007-08-20 21:37:26
474.   RIYank
Sure.
Now.
2007-08-20 21:37:43
475.   Max
This is all on the rook. Walking the number 9 hitter and giving up a bases clearing double to Jeff Mathis? Sorry, it's nice to blame the Viz, but he didn't walk into an ideal situation.
2007-08-20 21:38:11
476.   3rd gen yankee fan
We need to win this gane. We need to shut these guys up.
2007-08-20 21:38:12
477.   rconn23
we're done. Vizcaino sucks and the Mariners just won't lose and we can't beat the Angels in LA. Can't wait to watch K-Rod embarass us again and do his histrionics. UGHHHH!
2007-08-20 21:38:16
478.   williamnyy23
465 That's a ridiculous statement. I'll take 3 IP of Joba a week over Bruney/Proctor/etc.
2007-08-20 21:38:30
479.   Yankees Brasil
That fucking pitchout... what a retarded decision..
2007-08-20 21:38:33
480.   Vandelay Industries
465 Matt,

Joba is like sex when you're single. It's better to enjoy it when you can, rather than not at all.

2007-08-20 21:38:42
481.   tommyl
465 Are you kidding me? We bring up a player, who is lights out, helps us when games but we should leave him in the minors because he can't pitch on back to back days? Hell, Kyle Farnsworth can't do that, sucks and we keep him up here. If losing a game or two this year means Joba is healthy for the rotation next, I'm fine with that. What? no one else on the Yankees can pitch an inning every other day?
2007-08-20 21:39:44
482.   Yanks Fan in Chicago
Ye of LITTLE faith!
2007-08-20 21:40:00
483.   monkeypants
453 They are a very good thing. It's too bad the team doesn't utilyze them more effectively. Like not burning him for one inning with large leads (like 6-1 on Friday, or even 3 runs on Sunday).
2007-08-20 21:40:01
484.   51cq24
481 how does that change when you're not single?
2007-08-20 21:40:06
485.   rconn23
Viz' job is to not let inherited runners score. He threw two pitches right over the plate and they got creamed. He did not do his job. He sucks.
2007-08-20 21:40:09
486.   rconn23
Viz' job is to not let inherited runners score. He threw two pitches right over the plate and they got creamed. He did not do his job. He sucks.
2007-08-20 21:40:25
487.   51cq24
i meant 480
2007-08-20 21:40:30
488.   williamnyy23
You can blame Torre/Hughes/Viz, but to only score 4 runs against Moseley and Bootcheck is the reason why the Yankees lost.
2007-08-20 21:40:32
489.   Mattpat11
467 You know what? Fuck the pitch out. How about the "Next Roger Clemens" rebounds from the DEVASTATING 1-0 count and shows some fucking balls against REGGIE WILLITS.
2007-08-20 21:40:33
490.   Zack
Sutcliffe is so glad the Angels are back ahead so he can return to orally servicing them
2007-08-20 21:40:47
491.   Yankees Brasil
I wanna know how is Pete Abe going to defend Joe's decisions...
2007-08-20 21:40:59
492.   tommyl
PH Duncan for Phillips and Giambi for Damon. You have to do that.
2007-08-20 21:41:51
493.   Vandelay Industries
Ill say one thing. Not only would neither Piniella or Leyland have oitched out, neither would have pulled Hughes from the game.

Man, I would love to see what those guys could do with the talent the Yankees have.

2007-08-20 21:41:52
494.   51cq24
488 lost?
2007-08-20 21:42:19
495.   tommyl
489 Agreed here. It was a stupid call by Joe, but c'mon its 1-0. Its not like Joe called 3 straight pitch outs after 2 IBB.
2007-08-20 21:43:46
496.   williamnyy23
489 Hughes is 21...expecting him to be the Rocket is silly. I said it at the time, so I stand my criticism of the pitch out. I think it put Hughes in an unnecessary hole.
2007-08-20 21:44:18
497.   Yanks Fan in Chicago
Fuck yeah!
2007-08-20 21:44:19
498.   Zack
Woah, so much Hughes hate here. The guy tires in the 7th and suddenly hes not man enough or something? Easy.
2007-08-20 21:44:24
499.   RIYank
Ha!
Still breathing. Bring on K-Rod....
2007-08-20 21:44:30
500.   monkeypants
489 Dude, chill out--the kid ran out of gas. It would be nice if the BP occasionally didn't let every inherited runner score.
Show/Hide Comments 501-550
2007-08-20 21:44:52
501.   Zack
11 freaking hits, 4 runs...thats the issue here
2007-08-20 21:44:57
502.   Yu-Hsing Chen
I would have taken 6IP 3ER out of Hughes any day .

As for head and head, but in the amazing sample of 1 game, your still suppose to go out and win it instead of drop down and die. and look, even being the best team against us, the Angels only barely beat us more than half the times, this isn't the same thing as the Royals in YS.

and Ryan: you know, you have a poitn if Ryan didn't have 2 of his top 3 season after the age 40. he's a incrediable pitcher, but his overall result still were somewhat overrated.

2007-08-20 21:44:59
503.   Yanks Fan in Chicago
Everybody shut up and watch the game!
2007-08-20 21:45:24
504.   Ravenscar
That's my boy.

C'mon, Matsui, shut this horrendously ugly city up.

2007-08-20 21:45:27
505.   williamnyy23
Can the Yankees get back to back hits?
2007-08-20 21:45:51
506.   Vandelay Industries
494 Not yet. But like I've been saying, this team will lose most every game in which they fail to score seven or more runs from now until the end of the season. Which is why I have little hope we will overtake Seattle or Boston in the end. I sure hope I'm wrong, but we cannot hold teams down, and that means we have to score to win.

"It's the pitching stupid."

2007-08-20 21:46:29
507.   Yu-Hsing Chen
the good news at least is that the final parts of the Angel bullpen have been crapy lately. but it's against Boston, who owns them more than they own us
2007-08-20 21:46:32
508.   Yankees Brasil
that first pitch to Matsui wasn't even close to being a strike
2007-08-20 21:46:33
509.   Mattpat11
496 So fucking what? If a pitch out and a 1-0 count intimidate Hughes to the point where he's going to shit away the game, he's far too young and immature to be in the major leagues.
2007-08-20 21:46:59
510.   williamnyy23
Thanks Matsui...that's an awful swing.
2007-08-20 21:47:02
511.   Yanks Fan in Chicago
FUCK!!!
2007-08-20 21:47:24
512.   monkeypants
506 Uh...don't all teams have to score to win?
2007-08-20 21:47:56
513.   Yanks Fan in Chicago
I'm calling that the Gator Phone!
2007-08-20 21:48:19
514.   Mattpat11
500 He ran out of gas? I thought Joe Torre sabotaged him. By asking him to pitch to Reggie Willits with a 1-0 count.
2007-08-20 21:48:27
515.   51cq24
509 i guess we should call igawa back up
2007-08-20 21:48:35
516.   Yanks Fan in Chicago
C'mon Jorgie!
2007-08-20 21:48:36
517.   3rd gen yankee fan
503 post of the day
2007-08-20 21:48:39
518.   RIYank
506 Dude, our staff just held the Tigers to 6 runs in the last three games. The Tigers are the best non-Yankee run-producers in baseball.
2007-08-20 21:48:48
519.   Bob Timmermann
Shields is not available for the Angels in this game as the team thinks his mechanics are out of whack.
2007-08-20 21:48:59
520.   JeremyM
OH HELL YES!!!!!!!
2007-08-20 21:49:01
521.   tommyl
Holy shit!
2007-08-20 21:49:01
522.   Zack
Jorge!! See, no worries!
2007-08-20 21:49:02
523.   51cq24
ok so everyone can calm down maybe?
2007-08-20 21:49:02
524.   Yanks Fan in Chicago
YES
2007-08-20 21:49:06
525.   Knuckles
Jorge!
2007-08-20 21:49:08
526.   seamus
HA!

serves y'all right for giving up on this game. punks.

2007-08-20 21:49:11
527.   williamnyy23
509 Purposely throwing balls a two feet off the plate can take any pitcher out of their rhythm, especially a rookie.
2007-08-20 21:49:23
528.   RIYank
Hip hip!
2007-08-20 21:49:27
529.   Yu-Hsing Chen
forget about A-rod winning the MVP, Jorge for MVP!!!
2007-08-20 21:49:27
530.   monkeypants
Yep...pitching and defense wins every time. Slapping singles is so much more consistent than HRs.
2007-08-20 21:49:29
531.   Ravenscar
See? Tsk tsk. Count on a Mets fan to will you guys thru all this. ;-)
2007-08-20 21:49:33
532.   Vandelay Industries
Jorge! Who loves the PO man!

I take it all back! We are almost at my seven run rule, one more run and we win!

2007-08-20 21:49:36
533.   3rd gen yankee fan
That's what I'm sayin.
2007-08-20 21:49:40
534.   Knuckles
Speaking of guys we smack around...anyone notice how fat Pedro looked in his latest rehab start?
2007-08-20 21:49:47
535.   claybeez
Didn't you doom and gloomers learn your lesson while the team was busy making up all that ground?
2007-08-20 21:49:50
536.   Yu-Hsing Chen
now lets make it back to back robby
2007-08-20 21:50:06
537.   williamnyy23
Come on Cano...patience please!

The Yankees better score more here...the pen is empty today.

2007-08-20 21:50:11
538.   RIYank
517 No kidding.
I'm crediting YF in Chi with that homer.
2007-08-20 21:50:29
539.   Yu-Hsing Chen
Wow, Spier just had his best Jeff WEaver impression there
2007-08-20 21:50:42
540.   Yanks Fan in Chicago
Does Sutcliffe ever sound not drunk?
2007-08-20 21:51:21
541.   williamnyy23
Who pitches the 8th?
2007-08-20 21:51:42
542.   Vandelay Industries
I have to say I enjoyed the high strike zone of the 80's a lot more than this four foot wide plate we have today.
2007-08-20 21:51:49
543.   Ravenscar
534 - He's on the El Guapo rehab regimen.
2007-08-20 21:52:03
544.   bobtaco
He just missed that.
2007-08-20 21:52:18
545.   Yu-Hsing Chen
damn, Jason just missed that one
2007-08-20 21:52:35
546.   monkeypants
Tie game. But now the fun of watching the BP v. the Angels' dinks and dunks...
2007-08-20 21:53:02
547.   RIYank
541 I hate to say what I'm thinking.
2007-08-20 21:53:42
548.   monkeypants
541 I suspect Farnsworth. Or has Edwar earned his spot on the wheel?
2007-08-20 21:54:32
549.   Mattpat11
NOOOOOOOOOOOOO
2007-08-20 21:54:35
550.   williamnyy23
This game is still following the script...usually the Yankees have a lead, cough it up...come back and then lose it late. If they can get through this inning, Mo has to pitch the 9th, ahead or tied.
Show/Hide Comments 551-600
2007-08-20 21:54:43
551.   tommyl
Oh good, Joe is taking my advice an inning too late.
2007-08-20 21:54:44
552.   RIYank
548 No, Edwar threw too many pitches last game, right?
2007-08-20 21:54:57
553.   Zack
Oh God Joe why????
2007-08-20 21:55:13
554.   williamnyy23
Oh damn it! What's the point...I am going to sleepwalk through the day tomorrow for this?
2007-08-20 21:55:14
555.   Vandelay Industries
That's just silly. Joe shouldn't even be able to do that.
2007-08-20 21:55:15
556.   Yanks Fan in Chicago
uh oh
2007-08-20 21:55:28
557.   bartap74
I can't believe he's going to Farnsworth instead of Edwar. I mean, I believe it, but I'm extremely unhappy about it.
2007-08-20 21:55:30
558.   Mattpat11
I'm in a pissy mood tonight to begin with. This game has done nothing to change that.
2007-08-20 21:55:35
559.   Ravenscar
HOLY CRAP

Where's Edwar?

Farnsworth? OK, he DID have that one good outing.

But.

Eek.

2007-08-20 21:56:34
560.   Mattpat11
557 Edwar did throw 2 IP last night.

I can't believe Farnsworth is still on this team.

2007-08-20 21:57:02
561.   bartap74
It's like one of those formula horror movies where you're yelling at the screen, "Don't go in there! Don't!" and the character marches to their scantily clad doom anyway.
2007-08-20 21:57:04
562.   williamnyy23
Chris Britton would be perfect in this situation.
2007-08-20 21:57:11
563.   Vandelay Industries
I hate to say it, but he's the best option available to him. He did try to go to his best option first. Although that stunt in pulling Viz after the break to get more time shouldn't be allowed.
2007-08-20 21:57:30
564.   Ravenscar
Can't you just see Sciosia chortling with glee when he sees this loser jog in from the bullpen?
2007-08-20 21:57:34
565.   Mattpat11
561 And then they run up the stairs instead of out the front door.
2007-08-20 21:57:35
566.   williamnyy23
Here comes the walk...great.
2007-08-20 21:57:52
567.   RIYank
Good lord. It's bad old Farns.
2007-08-20 21:58:00
568.   Yanks Fan in Chicago
Could we invite some broads into this forum now? Just in case we need to ease the pain.
2007-08-20 21:58:11
569.   Zack
I can't watch. Freaking 3-0
2007-08-20 21:58:15
570.   Mattpat11
I need a drink
2007-08-20 21:58:36
571.   tommyl
Um, is the YES gun a bit off? Kyle throwing 87?
2007-08-20 21:58:44
572.   williamnyy23
I can't believe with all the talent this team has at its disposal, Farnsworth is going to cost them another precious, valuable game.
2007-08-20 21:58:57
573.   51cq24
what the fuck was that??
2007-08-20 21:59:02
574.   Yanks Fan in Chicago
A JOB!
2007-08-20 21:59:06
575.   RIYank
I can't believe we're out-hitting the Angels 12-6, and have two homers, and the game is tied.
2007-08-20 21:59:10
576.   Vandelay Industries
What the hell! He cannot move two fucking feet to the side of that rail?
2007-08-20 21:59:14
577.   Ravenscar
Yeah, Alex, that was an odd route.
2007-08-20 21:59:15
578.   Zack
Why didn't arod just move over a foot where he could get further?
2007-08-20 21:59:30
579.   Mattpat11
Kay so desperately wants Worthless to be good that he's blaming A-Rod.
2007-08-20 21:59:45
580.   Yanks Fan in Chicago
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!
2007-08-20 21:59:45
581.   williamnyy23
Catchable ball...Kyle needs all the help he can get.

This is quickly becoming a Torre loss.

2007-08-20 21:59:48
582.   Yu-Hsing Chen
umm... MO plz?
2007-08-20 21:59:51
583.   tommyl
You suck Kyle Farnsworth. Why the fuck is he still on this team? Chris Britton. Say it with me: D F A.
2007-08-20 21:59:52
584.   Mattpat11
I HATE HIM.
2007-08-20 22:00:13
585.   Zack
Oh God I hate freaking Farnsworth. Bring in Edwar now. Period, Farns sucks Joe, and no matter how many meaningless innings he throws won't change that.
2007-08-20 22:00:28
586.   williamnyy23
Why not bring in Henn? Letting Farns blow games is absurd.
2007-08-20 22:00:32
587.   51cq24
blaming arod? catchable ball? it was right next to him and he stood there watching
2007-08-20 22:00:48
588.   Ravenscar
You know, for a second there, I actually thought this was the 9th inning.
2007-08-20 22:00:54
589.   tommyl
The only silver lining of this game, is might it finally convince Joe that Kyle sucks once and for all.
2007-08-20 22:00:55
590.   Mattpat11
I HATE HIM.
2007-08-20 22:01:00
591.   Vandelay Industries
Not a Torre loss. Too many LOB. Sloppy and lax defense, and then Arod fails to catch a pretty easy pop up. No one is to blame, they are all to blame.
2007-08-20 22:01:01
592.   Yankees Brasil
Joe Torre must be drunk
2007-08-20 22:01:04
593.   bartap74
This is painful to watch
2007-08-20 22:01:11
594.   Zack
YOu know, i didn't think this game could get worse after last inning, and yet, here we are. TAKE HIM OUT RIGHT NOW!!
2007-08-20 22:01:13
595.   Yanks Fan in Chicago
3BB!
2007-08-20 22:01:17
596.   williamnyy23
Why aren't Mo and Henn up? What is Torre doing in that dugout? Did they really not expect this? Really?
2007-08-20 22:01:27
597.   Mattpat11
589 Nothing will ever convince Torre or Cashman that Kyle sucks. He'll be on this team until we die.
2007-08-20 22:01:50
598.   Zack
JOE TAKE HIM OUT
2007-08-20 22:01:51
599.   Ravenscar
In A-Rod's defense, it's not his stadium, so as he was looking mostly up at the ball, he couldn't know exactly that going around that corner was going to work.
2007-08-20 22:01:57
600.   bartap74
Is someone at least warming? I'd rather have Guidry on the mound.
Show/Hide Comments 601-650
2007-08-20 22:01:59
601.   51cq24
589 how many times has that been a possible silver lining?
2007-08-20 22:02:05
602.   3rd gen yankee fan
He's a piece of shit.
2007-08-20 22:02:08
603.   Yanks Fan in Chicago
What does Jorgie say? You completely suck..here comes Joe.
2007-08-20 22:02:19
604.   williamnyy23
591 It's a Torre loss because in spite of everything it was a tie game and yet he brought in a pitcher not capable of performing in a key situation. Everyone knew Farnsworth was going to blow the game...so why not Joe?
2007-08-20 22:02:29
605.   Zack
Forget anything else, this is on Kyle and Joe's "trust" in him. Yeah, the offense should have scored more, but they tied it up...
2007-08-20 22:02:30
606.   tommyl
Yes, this game is all A-Rod's fault. He's gone 3-4, with 3 RBI and 2 Rs scored. He's responsible for nearly their entire offense. But he sucks for not catching a foul popup after Kyle Farnsworth went 3-0 on every hitter the Angels have.
2007-08-20 22:03:24
607.   Zack
How is it possible that I can hate fanrsworth more? Somehow, he makes it possible
2007-08-20 22:03:30
608.   nemecizer
I really, really, really, really, really, really hate Kyle Farnsworth.
2007-08-20 22:03:36
610.   williamnyy23
589 Joe is incapable of learning...the Yankees have to win in spite of Joe.
2007-08-20 22:03:38
611.   Mattpat11
606 Michael Kay agrees.
2007-08-20 22:03:45
612.   51cq24
599 i'm pretty sure he could have caught it where he stood if he had lunged a little. he recoiled stupidly
2007-08-20 22:04:04
613.   Mattpat11
610 What about Cashman? WHY IS THIS MAN STILL HERE?
2007-08-20 22:04:08
614.   Ravenscar
Hmmm.... am I wrong in walking this guy and gambling on a DP? Probably.
2007-08-20 22:04:31
615.   Yanks Fan in Chicago
A Rod causes feline AIDS too! :-)
2007-08-20 22:04:31
616.   monkeypants
I am on record that I do not agree with pulling the IF in here. I know it's the right move, but I wouldn;t do it.
2007-08-20 22:04:44
617.   51cq24
that was incredible
2007-08-20 22:04:45
618.   claybeez
Awesome play Wilson!
2007-08-20 22:04:48
619.   Mattpat11
Kyle needs to buy Wilson a watch.
2007-08-20 22:04:49
620.   Zack
Wow, holy crap, Betimit just saved our ass!
2007-08-20 22:04:52
621.   Vandelay Industries
WILSON! WILSON! WILSON! WILSON! WILSON! WILSON! WILSON! WILSON! WILSON! WILSON! WILSON! WILSON!
2007-08-20 22:05:00
622.   Yu-Hsing Chen
thank you Wilson, looks like lady luck hasn't completley abandoned us yet
2007-08-20 22:05:07
623.   Ravenscar
WOW

Great play. That might have been a game-saving play, in fact.

2007-08-20 22:05:09
624.   monkeypants
616 And I would be wrong. I am happy to admit that mistake.
2007-08-20 22:05:24
625.   williamnyy23
Oh my Wilson...Joe...that bullet is your signal to get Kyle out of there immediately. He didn't get an out...an out got him.
2007-08-20 22:05:29
626.   Zack
Ok Kyle, you now have a chance
2007-08-20 22:05:35
627.   tommyl
Betemit saves his ass.
2007-08-20 22:05:36
628.   3rd gen yankee fan
That's our team, boys.
2007-08-20 22:05:39
629.   RIYank
Chalk one up to the Jim Dean Memorial Bench!
2007-08-20 22:06:00
630.   51cq24
606 what does his offense have to do with him missing an easy pop up?
2007-08-20 22:06:24
631.   tommyl
Well, the YES gun is 3 mph slow, so was Hughes really sitting at 94 tonight?
2007-08-20 22:06:27
632.   Vandelay Industries
629 Here here!
2007-08-20 22:06:35
633.   Mattpat11
There was a game in Oakland in extra innings earlier this year that was similar. The ball was hit to Mink the Stink. He fell down and Oakland walked off.

Hopefully this is a good omen that times have changed.

2007-08-20 22:06:54
634.   Yanks Fan in Chicago
Farns is almost comical
2007-08-20 22:07:30
635.   Zack
Kyle you lucky lucky lucky bastard!!!!
2007-08-20 22:07:41
636.   Ravenscar
Farnsworth, you do not deserve that scoreless inning.
2007-08-20 22:07:41
637.   claybeez
Bailed out by Blue.
2007-08-20 22:07:43
638.   tommyl
630 Because he sucks on pop ups, we all know that. The idea that this loss could in any way be A-Rod's fault just ticks me off.

Wow, Kyle, you suck so much and yet you manage to stay on the wheel of guts.

Duncan for Damon?

2007-08-20 22:07:49
639.   Mattpat11
He didnt go there.

We need to capitalize on these gifts.

2007-08-20 22:08:00
640.   Yanks Fan in Chicago
Siddown you fat overmanaging fuck
2007-08-20 22:08:02
641.   3rd gen yankee fan
YES!!!!!!
2007-08-20 22:08:19
642.   nemecizer
I can't believe we got out of that. I am sending Farnsworth my cardiac bill from my doctor.
2007-08-20 22:08:21
643.   Zack
I don't need to see Soscia run ever again...Tweedledum
2007-08-20 22:08:26
644.   RIYank
Super Kyle notches another scoreless inning!
The guy is unreal. He's worth his weight in gold.
2007-08-20 22:08:26
645.   51cq24
so i guess farsworth just won his setup man job back
2007-08-20 22:08:46
646.   williamnyy23
Whew...thank you mr. umpire.

In the post game, Torre will laud Farnsworth's guts. Cashman...that is your queue to eat the contract and DFA him immediately and recall Britton.

2007-08-20 22:08:58
647.   Mattpat11
Can we dump him? PLEASE?

He didn't get out of it. He got a sac bunt, a great play and a bad call.

2007-08-20 22:08:58
648.   Yanks Fan in Chicago
Too bad Scioscia he couldn't bunt the ump over
2007-08-20 22:09:06
649.   Ravenscar
630. Calling a pop-up where you have to run around a camera well and reach into the stands "easy" sorta makes taking your argument not seriously pretty easy.
2007-08-20 22:09:29
650.   Yu-Hsing Chen
hard to belive but i agree with O'brien / Sutcliff somewhat that from the thrills perspective this game is pretty good... back and forth and close plays and lots of management.
Show/Hide Comments 651-700
2007-08-20 22:09:29
651.   Mattpat11
646 he won't. Its Pavano but taller.
2007-08-20 22:09:31
652.   SF Yanks
I love how none of you guys criticized Torre for bringing in Farnsworth right away, but then decided to criticize Torre after he gave up two hits. Had he done a good job, you would have said, "Oh well, it was his only option."

A bunch of hindsighters.

2007-08-20 22:09:42
653.   tommyl
BTW, I love Betemit. Another amazing pickup by Cashman. No more Cairo's for years to come.
2007-08-20 22:09:53
654.   51cq24
638 we all know that mientkiewicz is an awful hitter, but that doesn't stop anyone from rightfully calling him out when he sucks
2007-08-20 22:10:13
655.   tommyl
652 What are you talking about? I said it was a bad move right off. Before he brought him in.
2007-08-20 22:10:31
656.   Zack
Why the heck do you need your coors light bottle to tell you when its cold enough?
2007-08-20 22:10:41
657.   williamnyy23
That wasn't a swing...hopefully the good fortune translates into some runs.
2007-08-20 22:10:51
658.   tommyl
Is Jeff Weaver up in the bullpen?
2007-08-20 22:10:56
659.   Yanks Fan in Chicago
Not so, SF Yanks
2007-08-20 22:11:27
660.   williamnyy23
Now...will Joe use Mo next inning?
2007-08-20 22:11:29
661.   SF Yanks
655 Alright 1, maybe 2 people said it right away. Everyone else waited.
2007-08-20 22:12:08
662.   Zack
652 Yeah, I think we all were pretty horrified, and said so
2007-08-20 22:12:16
663.   51cq24
649 you mean a pop up that lands in the field of play about 3 feet from where the 3rd baseman is standing and watching it? he didn't even lunge at it from where he stood.
2007-08-20 22:12:17
664.   bartap74
652 That's sarcasm, right? There were at least half a dozen posts decrying the call to Worthless before he threw a pitch.
2007-08-20 22:12:20
665.   Vandelay Industries
652 I did in fact say it was his best available option.
2007-08-20 22:12:28
666.   williamnyy23
652 Are you kidding? Go back and read the thread.
2007-08-20 22:13:01
667.   Yanks Fan in Chicago
Do u think Michael Kay calls himself K-Rod when he dances naked in front of himself in the mirror?
2007-08-20 22:13:05
668.   Mattpat11
661 I count seven people.
2007-08-20 22:13:28
669.   Zack
So who comes in for the 9th? Edwar? Mo?
2007-08-20 22:13:58
670.   Vandelay Industries
667 I know Kay is big, but is he big enough to actually dance in front of himself :)
2007-08-20 22:14:22
671.   51cq24
667 if i had the power i would ban you for life for bringing that image in here
2007-08-20 22:14:23
672.   Zack
Does Sutcliffe work for the Angels or something? I mean, its like every inning is "stuff you didn't know or care about but I'll tell you anyway about the Angels" time
2007-08-20 22:15:10
673.   williamnyy23
No Mo in the 9th...no Arod in the 10th. It's that simple.
2007-08-20 22:15:12
674.   Vandelay Industries
That might have been the best slider Ive ever seen.
2007-08-20 22:15:16
675.   Yanks Fan in Chicago
oh well
2007-08-20 22:15:52
676.   tommyl
669 Didn't you read? the Yankees claimed Jeff Weaver off waivers. He's warming in the bullpen. Its a tie game, on the road.

Seriously, Edwar threw 2 innings last night. I'd go to Mo first, since you have Abreu, A-Rod and Matsui due up in the 10th. Then if Mo has a short inning, trot him out again. If not, go to Edwar. Then Villone. Then Henn for however long it takes.

2007-08-20 22:16:00
677.   51cq24
krod just fell down throwing that fastball
2007-08-20 22:16:07
678.   tommyl
Whose throw day is this?
2007-08-20 22:16:10
679.   Zack
Figgins leading off next inning. blah
2007-08-20 22:16:34
680.   Yanks Fan in Chicago
i wonder if krod will accidentally hurl himself into the stands one day?
2007-08-20 22:16:41
681.   Mattpat11
678 Andy
2007-08-20 22:16:57
682.   Ravenscar
667 - OK, that was really funny.
2007-08-20 22:17:51
683.   Mattpat11
I don't see Abreu turning this into 1-4
2007-08-20 22:18:06
684.   Vandelay Industries
682 He has Love is a Battlefield by Pat Benetar playing on the radio.
2007-08-20 22:18:06
685.   SF Yanks
Alright I take it back. I'm just as pissed as everyone else that he was brought in and I started reading the comments and I keep forgetting that I'm a few minutes behind on the thread. I interpreted it as everyone waiting. That's my own stupidity and for that I apologize.
2007-08-20 22:18:17
686.   Yanks Fan in Chicago
btw what is that sheep's bladder on abreu's arm?
2007-08-20 22:18:39
687.   tommyl
681 Belay that, Mo, Edwar, Andy, Villone, Henn.
2007-08-20 22:18:46
688.   51cq24
closers usually only have one pitch, like mariano?
2007-08-20 22:19:05
689.   Mattpat11
684 No knocking Pat Benetar.
2007-08-20 22:19:26
690.   tommyl
685 No worries, we're just all a bit on edge methinks.
2007-08-20 22:19:37
691.   3rd gen yankee fan
Sweet.
2007-08-20 22:19:58
692.   51cq24
hey, that pitch used to be a strike!
2007-08-20 22:20:00
693.   Yanks Fan in Chicago
love is a balk-lefield
2007-08-20 22:20:55
694.   tommyl
K-Rod up to 19 pitches.
2007-08-20 22:21:09
695.   3rd gen yankee fan
C'mon I gotta got to BED!
2007-08-20 22:21:10
696.   Vandelay Industries
689 I'm sorry. I got my hair cut today at this palce near my apartment staffed by all gay men, and well, they had Pat Benetar playing, and then 1980's Madonna. I had to throw it out there.
2007-08-20 22:21:26
697.   Zack
Dangit Bobby
2007-08-20 22:21:34
698.   51cq24
oh come on that pitch never looked like it would be close
2007-08-20 22:21:49
699.   Yanks Fan in Chicago
K rod gives a shout out to the god of bad glasses
2007-08-20 22:21:57
700.   SF Yanks
FFFF..........KKKKK!!!!
Show/Hide Comments 701-750
2007-08-20 22:22:49
701.   williamnyy23
This just doesn't seem meant to be...it looks like things are setting up for another Arod clutch 9th inning and then Abreu swings at a pitch in the dirt.
2007-08-20 22:22:51
702.   Vandelay Industries
Hey, Posada gave us a shot. We just didn't capitalize.
2007-08-20 22:23:19
703.   Mike T
Mattingly needs to get with our guys to help them recognize a pitch near the dirt, and not to swing at them.
2007-08-20 22:23:39
704.   Mattpat11
Matsui is 4-9 with two HR and a double against K-Rod.

Get it to him.

2007-08-20 22:24:11
705.   51cq24
no way
2007-08-20 22:24:20
706.   Vandelay Industries
Come on MO! Show me the four seamer up in the zone. Please, I beg of you.
2007-08-20 22:24:22
707.   Mattpat11
MO!
2007-08-20 22:24:41
708.   Yanks Fan in Chicago
Let's go sizlak!
2007-08-20 22:24:42
709.   williamnyy23
Shut up Kay...there is only one move here...it's Mo. Any second guess would be moronic...win or lose.
2007-08-20 22:24:52
710.   51cq24
ok everyone who has wanted this for 4 years (including me), you gotta know he's gonna lose this game here
2007-08-20 22:25:10
711.   Vandelay Industries
Wow! The ump is calling that inside pitch tonight.
2007-08-20 22:25:33
712.   Mattpat11
We are strong. No one can tell us we're wrong.
2007-08-20 22:25:51
713.   Zack
Nice, Figgins=big out
2007-08-20 22:26:04
714.   bartap74
Wow, Mo actually does the right thing (he NEVER brings in Rivera in this situation) and Kay is criticizing! Perhaps he wanted to see Farnsworth blow it.
2007-08-20 22:26:13
715.   tommyl
Holy, wow, he brought in Mo! Whatever happens, this was the right move.
2007-08-20 22:26:13
716.   williamnyy23
710 If Mo blows this, at least I'll get one hour of sleep. If Torre let Villone lose it here, I wouldn't sleep all night.
2007-08-20 22:26:48
717.   Yanks Fan in Chicago
Darren Oliver sighting!
2007-08-20 22:27:00
718.   marc
Unfortunately I don't have much confidence in Mo at the moment but I'll feel better with 5 more outs
2007-08-20 22:27:16
719.   Yanks Fan in Chicago
We two are one...heartache to heartache
2007-08-20 22:27:21
720.   Mattpat11
Here comes Big Bad Vlad.
2007-08-20 22:27:38
721.   Zack
Come on Mo!
2007-08-20 22:27:47
722.   51cq24
that was not a good pitch
2007-08-20 22:27:49
723.   Vandelay Industries
We are young, heartache to heartache we stand
2007-08-20 22:28:01
724.   williamnyy23
718 I always have confidence in Mo because I know he has confidence in himself.
2007-08-20 22:28:08
725.   tommyl
714 Michael Kay also criticized the RJ trade because we'd never be able to replace his 17 wins. There's a great post at FJM with a radio call in:

http://www.firejoemorgan.com/search?q=kay+randy+johnson

2007-08-20 22:28:53
726.   Mattpat11
Do I stand in your way, or am I the best thing you've had?
2007-08-20 22:29:29
727.   51cq24
cutter looks better today, not as loopy as it's been
2007-08-20 22:29:35
728.   Yanks Fan in Chicago
sometimes i wanna get meta and start a FJM FJM blog
2007-08-20 22:29:36
729.   Vandelay Industries
MO! That four seamer at the letters is what, a wooly mammoth? Saber toothes tiger? Glacial Ice?
2007-08-20 22:30:19
730.   Zack
That was ridiculous and oh so typical of the Angels vs. us
2007-08-20 22:30:22
731.   Mattpat11
Jesus Christ.

Come on Mo.

2007-08-20 22:30:23
732.   tommyl
Oh man...stupid bleeders. At least Mo is Mo again.
2007-08-20 22:30:32
733.   williamnyy23
OK...the Yankees just aren't meant to beat the Angels. How ridiculous.
2007-08-20 22:30:36
734.   Yanks Fan in Chicago
Fire Ken Tremendous!
2007-08-20 22:31:01
735.   3rd gen yankee fan
no promises no demands
2007-08-20 22:31:06
736.   tommyl
Please don't let steroid boy win the game
2007-08-20 22:31:18
737.   Benjamin Kabak
I hate Michael Kay. I blame him for this. Noting that Rivera had thrown five pitches...
2007-08-20 22:31:21
738.   Yanks Fan in Chicago
They're all Sux fans anyways
2007-08-20 22:31:26
739.   Mattpat11
Come on Mo. You're the right kind of sinner to release my inner fantasy.
2007-08-20 22:32:09
740.   51cq24
729 put to rest by andruw jones on 6/18/99
2007-08-20 22:32:13
741.   Benjamin Kabak
I wonder why Rivera doesn't ever break out that change up he deployed so well in spring training.
2007-08-20 22:32:22
742.   Vandelay Industries
739 Dude! LOL.
2007-08-20 22:32:54
743.   Mattpat11
742 I'll try anything.
2007-08-20 22:33:09
744.   Yanks Fan in Chicago
Mo is dialing it up
2007-08-20 22:33:40
745.   Vandelay Industries
Every one of those way outside pitches used to be a high fastball at the eyes! Throw that fucking pitch! There are only a handful of guys who can hit it, but yet you never throw it.
2007-08-20 22:33:48
746.   Zack
HE GONE!
2007-08-20 22:33:49
747.   51cq24
whoa cano wake up
2007-08-20 22:33:49
748.   williamnyy23
This is torture.
2007-08-20 22:33:51
749.   Benjamin Kabak
This game is heart attack city. I feared another chop hit there.
2007-08-20 22:33:52
750.   tommyl
I heart Mo
Show/Hide Comments 751-800
2007-08-20 22:34:11
751.   Mattpat11
Get it to Matsui guys.
2007-08-20 22:34:11
752.   Yu-Hsing Chen
whew, though it wuold have been fitting if the game ended on a shitty chop like that
2007-08-20 22:34:39
753.   3rd gen yankee fan
Yeah. Shit my boss is gonna hate me tomorrow.
2007-08-20 22:34:41
754.   claybeez
741 It might mess with his cutter. I've heard Pettitte and other SP talk about how it's difficult to throw both effectively.
2007-08-20 22:34:56
755.   Mike T
This game is taking years off my life.
2007-08-20 22:35:07
756.   51cq24
741 i'm pretty sure he mixed it in a couple times at the beginning of the year and it was messing up his control.

745 he still throws high pitches, but i don't think he ever throws a straight 4 seamer anymore.

2007-08-20 22:35:24
757.   Yanks Fan in Chicago
take me down to heart attack city where love is a battlefield
2007-08-20 22:35:37
758.   JeremyM
749 Me too, I thought for sure that was an infield hit. Whew! Now if they can't score on Oliver, they don't deserve too win.
2007-08-20 22:36:04
759.   Mattpat11
755 So are you asking it

Why do you hurt me so bad?

2007-08-20 22:36:22
760.   williamnyy23
753 I have to wake up at 5:30am ET...if the Yankees lose, I may call in sick.
2007-08-20 22:36:24
761.   Zack
How the heck can oliver still be pitching?
2007-08-20 22:36:28
762.   nemecizer
That was a little too close for comfort.
2007-08-20 22:36:32
763.   Mattpat11
751 Nevermind
2007-08-20 22:36:42
764.   Vandelay Industries
You come on like a flame

Then you turn a cold shoulder

Fire and Ice

2007-08-20 22:37:08
765.   Yanks Fan in Chicago
i blame the moose in seattle
2007-08-20 22:37:54
766.   Zack
THIS IS DARREN OLIVER!! For the love of God
2007-08-20 22:38:14
767.   williamnyy23
Damn Arod...can't you do it every time!
2007-08-20 22:38:30
768.   Mattpat11
Matsui is 1-2 and Posada hits Oliver.
2007-08-20 22:38:32
769.   Yanks Fan in Chicago
told ya
2007-08-20 22:40:06
770.   Vandelay Industries
763 The deepest cuts are healed by faith
2007-08-20 22:40:18
771.   Mattpat11
Sorry. That was Kaz Matsui
2007-08-20 22:40:58
772.   Vandelay Industries
Roberto Hernandez is coming down from LA. I don't suppose they could hit him either.
2007-08-20 22:41:02
773.   JeremyM
He's throwing meatballs, come on guys.
2007-08-20 22:41:02
774.   williamnyy23
Can they at least get one good swing against Oliver?
2007-08-20 22:41:12
775.   bobtaco
So... Farns if they don't score?
2007-08-20 22:41:58
776.   51cq24
it's 1:40am to them too
2007-08-20 22:42:25
777.   williamnyy23
Posada is guessing here...I hope he guesses right.
2007-08-20 22:42:47
778.   Mattpat11
Giambi crushes Oliver if we can get it there
2007-08-20 22:43:09
779.   Zack
Ok, that was ridiculous. Darren freaking Oliver.
2007-08-20 22:43:30
780.   Zack
Now Henn has to come in after having pitched rarely
2007-08-20 22:43:35
781.   JeremyM
Giambi already pinch-hit and Farnsworth already pitched.
2007-08-20 22:43:55
782.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
2:45pm here in Japan, listening to the game online, zero work getting done...Enjoying all the commentary, thanks everyone!
2007-08-20 22:44:21
783.   El Lay Dave
Farnsworth and Giambi are already out of the game.
2007-08-20 22:44:27
784.   JeremyM
779 Horrible inning, I'm thinking 51cq24 is right--they're asleep now.
2007-08-20 22:44:28
785.   3rd gen yankee fan
All right guys I have to go to bed -- you're gonna have to keep the faith for me and I MEAN IT! We CAN beat the Angels! GO YANKEES! nite
2007-08-20 22:44:28
786.   williamnyy23
That was an awful inning...now we get treated to the perils of Sean Henn. I wish Edwar could go 1 IP.
2007-08-20 22:44:47
787.   Yu-Hsing Chen
WTF we got shut down by Darren freaking Oliver? ... oh lord with Henn comming in.. cuold this possibly work out?
2007-08-20 22:44:49
788.   Vandelay Industries
And no Shields.....come on guys.

Does Land Rover think that people that can afford $80,000 cars actually live in flood plains and avalanche areas?

2007-08-20 22:44:49
789.   Mattpat11
lefty
2007-08-20 22:44:51
790.   El Lay Dave
or what 781 said.
2007-08-20 22:45:53
791.   Vandelay Industries
782 A lot of ugly talk tonight. Don't hold it against us.
2007-08-20 22:46:03
792.   tommyl
Duncan is still on the bench. I'd have gone with Edwar here, but he might be tired. Joe is running out of pitchers and he did go to Mo. I can't hate him here.
2007-08-20 22:46:17
793.   Mattpat11
I dont wanna give in
Id be playin with fire
You forget, Ive seen you work before
2007-08-20 22:46:38
794.   Vandelay Industries
All Fired Up, Now I believe there comes a time, All Fired Up, When everything just falls in line, All Fired Up

Shut them down and end this!

2007-08-20 22:48:04
795.   Zack
Oh nerts
2007-08-20 22:48:04
796.   JeremyM
Not good, damn it.
2007-08-20 22:48:11
797.   williamnyy23
My head feels like it is going to explode. I need sleep...a loss here is going to be insult to injury.
2007-08-20 22:48:11
798.   Mattpat11
And I wont be takin in by fire and ice
2007-08-20 22:48:22
799.   Vandelay Industries
The Humanity!
2007-08-20 22:48:42
800.   Mattpat11
I think Pat may have failed us.
Show/Hide Comments 801-850
2007-08-20 22:48:51
801.   williamnyy23
Of course that couldn't go foul...anyone think Henn has a chance to egt out of this?
2007-08-20 22:49:23
802.   tommyl
Hey, its the Angels version of Will Nieves. Wanna bet we lose to him?
2007-08-20 22:49:29
803.   Mattpat11
801 There's a chance
2007-08-20 22:50:00
804.   51cq24
what a joke
2007-08-20 22:50:09
805.   bobtaco
fuck. just like Bubba Crosby.
2007-08-20 22:50:10
806.   tommyl
Wow, a guy with a .091 OBP hits a game winning double. That hurts.
2007-08-20 22:50:12
807.   Mattpat11
HOW?
2007-08-20 22:50:13
808.   Zack
F'ing pathetic. What a waste. What was that guy hitting, .091? Figures. I hate the Angels
2007-08-20 22:50:32
809.   Benjamin Kabak
I just stayed up until 2 a.m. for this shit. Lovely.
2007-08-20 22:50:37
810.   williamnyy23
Mother fucker...that has to be caught.

Ryan mother fucking Buddy...incredible. This series has sweep written all over it.

2007-08-20 22:50:57
811.   Yu-Hsing Chen
that's like a comical ending to a drama... jesus
2007-08-20 22:51:33
812.   Zack
Seemed like Melky was a step or two slow all game, just missing this shit...

But when you go down meekly against Darren Oliver with your three best hitters, well, you deserve this fate

2007-08-20 22:51:35
813.   Mattpat11
HOW DOES NO ONE CATCH THAT?
2007-08-20 22:51:49
814.   Vandelay Industries
I can read it already, "The Yankees, following a defalting loss on MOnday, went on to drop the next to games to the gritty Angels, falling 3.5 games behind the Mariners, and a game behind the Indians in the Wild Card race."
2007-08-20 22:52:23
815.   Mattpat11
I don't understand this team. I really don't.
2007-08-20 22:52:25
816.   SF Yanks
Should we have expected anything else? Fu*kin LAME
2007-08-20 22:52:39
817.   JeremyM
Terrible stuff from Henn, he served that one on a f-ing platter. Send his sorry ass down. I'm sick of having a "long man" just to have one. Give us Chris Britton already.

I hate to be so negative, but this has sweep written all over it. Ugh.

2007-08-20 22:53:12
818.   bobtaco
Rule 5 Unprotected guy.
2007-08-20 22:53:13
819.   Yu-Hsing Chen
813 because it's a righty, the CF usually shift toward LF queit a bit and RF will shift towards the line.
2007-08-20 22:53:30
820.   Vandelay Industries
813 The communication issues which Abreu and Melky have had all season finally come home to roost. That's how, by not fixing what has been going on out there all year between the two of them.
2007-08-20 22:53:40
821.   Mike T
The Yankees got what they deserved tonight, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. They had plenty of opportunities to get ahead in this game, and keep a lead.
2007-08-20 22:53:52
822.   williamnyy23
The Yankees had no business being in extra innings in this game. Like I said before, this team folds when it comes time to play the Angels. Winning the WC is not going to mean much if they continue to blow games to the Angels. If they were going to blow this one, they should have done it 2 hours ago.
2007-08-20 22:53:55
823.   JeremyM
They got their ass beat by two backup catchers today.
2007-08-20 22:54:44
824.   Yu-Hsing Chen
820 oh yeah, of course that's the issue! instead of you know, umm the Yankees playing the OF by the books against a right handed guy and he dunks one in the hole against them
2007-08-20 22:54:53
825.   Mike T
"I hate to be so negative, but this has sweep written all over it."

Yep.

2007-08-20 22:55:01
826.   Mattpat11
Here's where we look at all the mishaps that would have won the game for us.

I'd like to look at Robinson Cano's three run second inning.

2007-08-20 22:55:26
827.   Vandelay Industries
815 How does it feel to have a slice of what Sox fans went through? A team which starts badly, gives you hope that they will get to the promised land, and then falls apart in situations which are clearly winnable.
2007-08-20 22:55:43
828.   williamnyy23
Bad offense, bad managing, bad defense and bad pitching...why do they even get on the flight.
2007-08-20 22:56:19
829.   Mattpat11
819 That suggests that you think the shitbag player at the plate is going to pull the ball.
2007-08-20 22:57:34
830.   Vandelay Industries
Look on the bright side. The NFL was purged of yet one more pile of human garbage. Maybe his piece of shit brother can join him.
2007-08-20 22:57:39
831.   Benjamin Kabak
I don't think that was a Melky/Abreu issue. The outfielders were positioned poorly and Sean Henn — scrub — threw one of the worst pitches to a 28-year-old rookie who was 1 for 11 with 4 Ks in the Majors. The fact that it was almost caught was a testament to the efforts Bobby and Melky put in. That was otherwise just pathetic pitching.
2007-08-20 22:58:34
832.   Mattpat11
830 I'd really have preferred that society would lose him for 15 or so years.
2007-08-20 22:58:44
833.   williamnyy23
Henn doesn't belong in the major leagues. Chris Britton is wasted in Scranton while guys like Henn and Farns blow games. This stretch is way too brutal to give away games, especially when the matchup favors you heavily. After 4 fucking hours, I am still going to have a sleepless night thinking about a pitch out. Thanks Joe!
2007-08-20 22:59:11
834.   Mike T
I hate to say it, but I think that, mentally, have made up their minds that they are no match for the Angels. That's what the Yankees' performance says to me every time these teams play. It's pathetic.
2007-08-20 23:00:21
835.   Mattpat11
I'll ask this question again.

WHO IS THE OUTFIELD COACH?

Who in this staff of catchers and infielders is positioning the outfield to play for Gary Sheffield?

2007-08-20 23:00:37
836.   Yu-Hsing Chen
829 unless you know a righty is particularly good at going the oppsite field, that's the way you play. though i suppose with the game on the line and a single probably woulda scored it anyway, they probably shoulda shifted more toward middle than that
2007-08-20 23:01:33
837.   Benjamin Kabak
Let me say this again: Sean Henn served up a meatball to a 28-year-old rookie, fourth string catcher who can't hit much. It ain't the outfielders' faults.
2007-08-20 23:01:48
838.   JeremyM
Seriously, do the Yanks need a long man right now? There's 10 days left until expanded rosters, they can patch it together until then. Call up Britton, who is actually, well, good. They keep calling up Henn, and I don't see any usefulness in the guy. So he throws hard and with his left hand. So what? If you can't get Buddy out, you're not a pitcher.

Then again, it's the Angels, Tony Danza is out there in the outfield every time they play the Yankees.

2007-08-20 23:02:50
839.   Vandelay Industries
832 It is a testament, in some ways, to baseball. If a pitcher had refused to correct his mechanics for seven seasons, he's be pitching in Staten Island. If you can run in the NFL, you just haven't been given the right opportunity to succeed. By far the least athletic of the three major sports...but I digress. I cannot help but think that Petrino is happy as a clam right now. He has a QB who will take direction, not spend seven years throwing off the wrong foot and blaming everyone around him.
2007-08-20 23:03:55
840.   Mattpat11
836 I think you sort of have to assume he's no good at anything and isn't going to be getting around on any kind of fastball.
2007-08-20 23:04:44
841.   JeremyM
839 I really dislike the NFL. A baseball player gets arrested what, once every 6 months or so? It's a weekly occurrence there. By and large, football players are morons.
2007-08-20 23:05:38
842.   Mattpat11
839 I disagree. The 97 mph fastball is to baseball what speed is to football
2007-08-20 23:05:50
843.   Vandelay Industries
836 I think so. Not to mention that it was still a catchable ball. What can you do though? Until proven otherwise, the Angels are the only team in the league better than we are year after year head to head, and the record shows it.
2007-08-20 23:08:40
844.   Vandelay Industries
841 I do love it when they say things like Russell won't be able to play because he won't have time to learn the system and coaches work 20 hour days because its so complicated. It's not, and it isn't, and he'll be fine. Football is in many ways the least complicated of all the sports, but since ESPN is had by the balls by them, you have to be preached to that 45 guys who couldn't change their own oil are learning rocket science or something.
2007-08-20 23:16:11
845.   Vandelay Industries
842 When it hits the backstop it isn't effective, and when all you can do is run, but have rotten mechanics or cannot catch the ball, you are equally of little use. While in baseball, many who can throw 97 MPH are given the opportunity to pitch, a guy like Vick is given the opportunity to pitch and fail. He should have fixed his mechanics or gone the way of Rick Ankiel and done something that would have been of use to his team. Speed is great, yes, but as with baseball, the NFL gives it a front seat to skill. Jerry Rice was never faster than most over the DB's that covered him, but yet, he was pretty damn good. Speed aint everything, in either sport, whether it be MPH, or a 4.3 forty yard dash. Vick was a freakish athlete, but either a lack of skill or a lack of disclipine kept him from being as effective at his chosen position as he could have been. I don't think that anyone would argue that Manning or Brady are fast, but they are very good QB's.

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