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Nearly There
2007-08-07 14:34
by Cliff Corcoran
Note: The Bronx Banter blog has moved to bronxbanterblog.com.

It's official. Joba Chamberlain and Jason Giambi are on the 25-man roster. To make room for Giambi the Yankees have done what I never though they'd do: designate Miguel Cairo for assignment. It was an obvious decision. With Wilson Betemit on hand, Cairo was worse than redundant, he was obsolete. Now he's gone and Shelley Duncan's good right-handed at-bats remain. Maybe Duncan's baseball bloodlines were enough to outweigh Cairo's veteran experience. Whatever the reason, the Yankees have maximized their bench, resulting in a nearly unassailable group of hitters that looks like this:

Lefties: Bobby Abreu, Hideki Matsui, Robinson Cano, Johnny Damon, Jason Giambi
Righties: Alex Rodriguez, Derek Jeter, Andy Phillips, Shelley Duncan, Jose Molina
Switch: Jorge Posada, Melky Cabrera, Wilson Betemit

(Jose Molina would be the "nearly" part.)

As for the bullpen, well . . . rather than option Jeff Karstens to make room for Chamberlian, as was rumored, the Yankees sent down Brian Bruney. I'm not going to rush to Bruney's defense (he had 30 walks against just 32 Ks in 42 2/3 innings on the season and an 8.68 ERA since July 1), but any pen that includes Karstens, Jim Brower, and Kyle Farnsworth is far from fixed.

Giambi isn't in the lineup tonight against Josh Towers, but Shelley Duncan is. He'll DH while Damon plays left and Matsui gets a day off. The Yanks got to Towers good when they last faced him in mid-July (curiously, Matsui hit one of three Yankee home runs off Towers in that game). More recently, Towers has allowed four runs in 5 1/3 innings in each of his last two games. Roger Clemens, meanwhile, is coming off one of the worst starts of his Hall of Fame career. Clemens held the Jays to one run over six innings when he last faced them, also in mid-July. Here's hoping we see more of that tonight, along with Chamberlain's major league debut, idealy to protect a lead in the eighth. If the Yankees win tonight, they'll take the series from the Jays and thus have accomplished their mission for the cupcake part of their scedule.

Comments (460)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-08-07 15:30:24
1.   cult of basebaal
The Gnome is dead, long live The Betemit! Destroy all Krazies! He is The Warrior! What Would Joe Torre Do??? Wheel of Guts?!?!?!?
2007-08-07 15:36:35
2.   yankz
Good god, I never thought I'd see it either.

My guess is Brower goes down in a few days for Edwar (or Britton, who, unless he's injured more seriously than it appears, is really getting a raw deal). They didn't want to play shorthanded yesterday, and it'd be a total dick move to send the guy down after one game.

Karstens is the long man, and Farns will be put on waivers soon enough. At least, he better be.

2007-08-07 15:41:09
3.   JL25and3
0 I can't really argue with your analysis of the bullpen, but I have a possible explanation.

One of the problems with the Yankee pen, going back to April, is that it's been a bunch of one-inning (or less) pitchers. I don't know if that's Joe's managing or the limitations of the pitchers, but that's how it's been. If the starter gets knocked out early, it takes 5 relievers to get through the game.

Now they've got Villone - who's hardly great but who is versatile and left-handed - and they've got Karstens and Brower. My hope is that they're going to take the next couple of weeks to decide which of them (if any) can help the team down the stretch. Both the righties are easily expendable - Karstens can be sent down, Brower can be released - and then they can bring back Bruney, who's a known quantity

So maybe they can get another middle-inning reliever who can pitch competently for more than an inning at a time. That would be a big help.

2007-08-07 15:41:35
4.   randym77
Holy crap. I never thought I'd see the day.
2007-08-07 15:42:46
5.   ChrisS
Let the Joba era begin, then.

Nice to see Cash do the right thing, this gives me incredible hope that Minky has no place on the team after he heals (though I don't mean that in a nasty way, hopefully he catches on somewhere else). Dandy Andy is doing well enough.

I'd like to see Edwar up here, I can't think of what more he needs to do at AAA other than see regular action. Having strong arms in the 'pen down the stretch can mean a game or two. We already know that Kyle can lose ballgames.

2007-08-07 15:44:40
6.   yankz
It really seems like the Yankees make their minor leaguers watch Jeter interviews. Joba and Phenom choose their words as carefully as he does.
2007-08-07 15:46:16
7.   ChrisS
3 "I don't know if that's Joe's managing or the limitations of the pitchers, but that's how it's been."

A little bit of A, a little bit of B, I'd imagine. Torre emptying the pen when the Yankees have a big lead in a slugfest is one of my gripes.

2007-08-07 15:58:36
8.   JL25and3
I'm with you there. His usage of Vizcaino has been downright bizarre recently.

But I was really talking about early in the season, when the starters were getting rocked - and he was still bringing in relievers for one inning at a time. That really screwed up the bullpen for the next month or two, and I really don't know if that was Joe or the pitchers. There certainly wasn't an obvious "long man," but it seemed awfully strange.

2007-08-07 15:58:38
9.   Hocakes
I think the biggest problem that pitchers making the jump to the big leagues have is with control. The test is when they first get hit on a good pitch, will they get scared of the strike zone and be unable to throw strikes? It seems like that's what happened to Clippard. My hope is that Chamberlain just pounds the zone with his heater and doesn't get shy if they get a hit or two. "Trust your stuff" and all that.

On another note, and I might be jumping the gun here, but who else thinks Joba has the potential to be a HUGE star in NY? He has the skills(so far) the story(not to be cynical, but the Dad-with-polio thing is gold..not to mention the whole 'worked for the Lincoln maintenance department tending the fields but somehow knew, deep in his heart, that he'd make it to the big leagues - thing') and seemingly(again, so far) the charisma.

2007-08-07 16:08:53
10.   OldYanksFan
I will miss Miggy Cairo. Add him to the gritty scrubs list.
I dont know if Jim Dean will recognise this team.
Hutty was supposed to have a weight problem, but he doesn't look bad to me.
2007-08-07 16:11:40
11.   OldYanksFan
Wow... how slow is Glaus
2007-08-07 16:14:09
12.   yankz
Captain's hurting. I wouldn't mind seeing Wilson get a start vs. a righty.
2007-08-07 16:14:50
13.   Peter
9 And he's named Joba. Imagine all the headline possibilities.
2007-08-07 16:15:49
14.   yankz
13 Hopefully tomorrow: JOB-A WELL DONE
2007-08-07 16:26:46
15.   yankz
Phew.

Does Toronto's field look a lot bigger than it really is to anybody else?

2007-08-07 16:30:32
16.   randym77
15 To Posada, apparently. :-P
2007-08-07 16:34:54
17.   JeremyM
The one true hole in Posada's game, he is the worst freaking baserunner and doesn't have the wheels to even come close to making up for it!
2007-08-07 16:40:20
18.   yankz
I think we've got Bad Roger.
2007-08-07 16:41:49
19.   yankz
Maybe not!
2007-08-07 16:49:20
20.   Hocakes
...Chamberlain promises, "Peace in our bullpen".
2007-08-07 16:52:02
21.   JeremyM
I liked the bunt better..........

I wish he would stop fooling around with the sac bunt nonsense, it rarely works out well.

2007-08-07 16:54:39
22.   Knuckles
Nice depth perception, dude.
2007-08-07 16:54:40
23.   Hocakes
Man, you'd think the double play would have killed the inning but these guys just don't quit!
2007-08-07 16:55:12
24.   yankz
Kapleresque
2007-08-07 16:55:46
25.   yankz
I better see Kyle sprinting!
2007-08-07 16:55:51
26.   Knuckles
What a buncha pussies. Do nothing on their last trip to the Bronx, and then keep on with this crap for two games in a row?
2007-08-07 16:55:53
27.   Marcus
21 Haha, nice.
2007-08-07 16:56:21
28.   Mike T
How was that HBP? Alex isn't hurt is he?
2007-08-07 16:57:01
29.   Jeteupthemiddle
Is there anything more hilarious than bullpens clearing during baseball "brawls?"

I'm sure they are all looking at each other in a "do we really have to go out there? I guess we have to go out there. FINE! We'll go out there."

Then they finally get all the way to the mound/home plate area and the hole thing is over without any punches thrown and only harshly worded statements made.

2007-08-07 16:57:09
30.   3rd gen yankee fan
26 Seriously, they're not over it yet? C'mon it was months ago.
2007-08-07 16:57:38
31.   Benjamin Kabak
These Blue Jays sure are a vindictive bunch of players.
2007-08-07 16:57:43
32.   yankz
HA!
2007-08-07 16:58:20
33.   Knuckles
This is Farns' only worthwhile use- put one in Wells' earhole later on tonight.
2007-08-07 16:58:23
34.   Marcus
Did Towers get warned?
2007-08-07 16:58:43
35.   randym77
Whoa. What happened?
2007-08-07 16:58:56
36.   Jeteupthemiddle
Now the bullpens are REALLY pissed because they have to come back out again.

More harsh words exchanged.

Then they have to get back out there.

It is tiring being all the way out there.

2007-08-07 16:59:45
37.   Benjamin Kabak
Matt Stairs, classless.
2007-08-07 16:59:58
38.   Marcus
36 Why did they come back out?

I'd be grateful for some play-by-bench-clearing-play. I'm still at work.

2007-08-07 17:00:06
39.   Knuckles
Toronto announcers are saying Towers did the right thing...
2007-08-07 17:00:23
40.   JeremyM
Come on Po, make them pay. I can't believe how bush league they're acting, get over it. Towers should've been ejected, although I don't know that I want that to happen...
2007-08-07 17:01:40
41.   Benjamin Kabak
39 The Toronto announcers also said that Mariano was over the hill yesterday shortly before he struck out the side to end the game. I don't think they're a very reliable source.
2007-08-07 17:01:47
42.   Hocakes
This is probably the one time your happy to have Farnsworth on the club. His brawling ability combined with Jaba's fastball should keep the Yanks in good stead tonight.
2007-08-07 17:01:51
43.   JeremyM
Of course the benches were warned. They always are when the Yanks get drilled.
2007-08-07 17:02:08
44.   3rd gen yankee fan
Suzyn: "Are you talkin ta me?" LOL
2007-08-07 17:02:46
45.   Raf
Yep... Pretty stupid to add baserunners with that type of offense
2007-08-07 17:03:02
46.   Jeteupthemiddle
38 Because Arod and Stairs started arguing again...and the benches cleared again...and so the bullpens had to empty again.
2007-08-07 17:03:05
47.   3rd gen yankee fan
Don't f* with the Yankees, you'll just piss them off and they'll beat you.
2007-08-07 17:03:13
48.   OldYanksFan
Did Po make it to 2nd this time?
2007-08-07 17:03:26
49.   Mike T
Cano getting the respect I see.
2007-08-07 17:03:40
50.   SF Yanks
39 They didn't say that.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-08-07 17:03:46
51.   Knuckles
Reed Johnson with yet another ill-advised dive. A-Rod looked like he was hoping to run over the catcher on his way home. No throw.
2007-08-07 17:04:01
52.   claybeez
Alex rounded 3rd ready to mash.
2007-08-07 17:04:36
53.   JeremyM
It's pretty obvious that virtually the entire league is jealous of A-Rod, going back to the comments from the Kevin Millars and Schillings of the world, and the way HA! was and continues to be blown WAY out of proportion.
2007-08-07 17:05:55
54.   Raf
51 Zaun was nowhere to be found :)
2007-08-07 17:07:24
55.   SF Yanks
51,52 LOL. He looked like he was ready to barrel the catcher when rounding 3rd. I almost thought he was going to barrel him over despite a play at the plate.
2007-08-07 17:07:28
56.   seamus
53 no doubt. He is the best player and gets paid unreal amounts of money. And he was totally prepared to mash at home plate.
2007-08-07 17:09:50
57.   OldYanksFan
Ok.... lets look ahead to the Toronto 6th. Lets see... who's gonna be target practice for Roger?
2007-08-07 17:10:11
58.   SF Yanks
39 They said that it was more or less a "whack" move by Towers, but they also said that if it was intentional, that he threw in the right spot. Below the waist and not up high. They weren't for "it" though.
2007-08-07 17:10:15
59.   Knuckles
50
Right now they're still saying the Blue Jays clearly didn't feel yesterday's throw-behind was enough, so if they feel the need to do stuff like this to make themselves feel better, even if they lose the game, if they go on to win their next 8, then it's the right thing to do, teamwise.
2007-08-07 17:11:39
60.   BklynBmr
52 Man, did he ever. Catcher was smart, got the hell out of Dodge...
2007-08-07 17:12:35
61.   Raf
until I see a player wait in the runway, or head over to the opposing clubhouse, or wait in the parking lot after a game, I'll take the "protection" angle with a grain of salt
2007-08-07 17:12:56
62.   SF Yanks
59 I believe they are saying that as if that's what the Blue Jays are thinking. I'm pretty sure the announcers aren't advocating, just guessing as to what the Jays are thinking.
2007-08-07 17:14:45
63.   3rd gen yankee fan
You know, the other day I heard that Howie Clark isn't even with the Jays anymore, so what are the Jays trying to prove??? I'm completely lost on this one.
2007-08-07 17:15:36
64.   Raf
59 And if there was a brawl and Towers gets dropped on his shoulder, it'll be of little consolation for this nonsense.
2007-08-07 17:18:43
65.   seamus
holy melk!
2007-08-07 17:18:54
66.   3rd gen yankee fan
I f'in LOVE Melky.
2007-08-07 17:19:36
67.   Benjamin Kabak
Apparently, Matt Stairs just cut the video connection to the YES Network.
2007-08-07 17:21:36
68.   SF Yanks
People may think that Arod is a pansy or a girly man, but he's a big boy. I bet you he could throw some blows if it came down to it.
2007-08-07 17:22:01
69.   3rd gen yankee fan
Knuckles I'm still lovin yer Comix.
2007-08-07 17:22:47
70.   BklynBmr
Smart move. Pissing off a team that's been scoring 10 runs a game...
2007-08-07 17:23:07
71.   Hocakes
63 He's probably watching at home saying, "yeah boyeee!" or Maybe the "Ha!" play completely destroyed him, the team feels bad about it and they want to avenge his downfall.
2007-08-07 17:25:24
72.   SF Yanks
I wish Arod had barreled over Matt Stairs when he was sitting on the top step on the cooler.
2007-08-07 17:33:23
73.   ChrisS
71 Nah, he's playing first base for the Syracuse Chiefs tonight about 3 miles from me.

What a lame reason to try and hit a batter - twice.

2007-08-07 17:36:15
74.   yankz
OMG POSADA. You are SLOW, GET OVER IT!
2007-08-07 17:36:48
75.   OldYanksFan
I believe Roger is fired up. He has looked much better since the 'incident'. Maybe Roger goes 7... or rather 6.2
2007-08-07 17:38:13
76.   monkeypants
Robbie with his second 3-BB night! Of course, tonight deserves an asterisk, what with the IBB and all.
2007-08-07 17:38:37
77.   ChrisS
Wow, three BBs for Cano tonight ... If he stays this selective, he's going to be a force.
2007-08-07 17:38:55
78.   yankz
Nothing would be more of a "HA!" than sweeping these pansies.

Humiliation would be nice as well. Ten or twelve more runs, please.

2007-08-07 17:39:14
79.   OldYanksFan
74 Perfect bounce off the wall to the OFer and a perfect throw. The first one he should have beat, but that time he was running hard.

And Cano's THIRD BB

2007-08-07 17:40:05
80.   OldYanksFan
Jeez... I guess the J's are fired up too.
2007-08-07 17:40:17
81.   ChrisS
meanwhile Andy Phillips is starting to make the baby jesus cry.
2007-08-07 17:40:38
82.   Mike T
has Jorge been gunned down twice in this game trying to extend singles?
2007-08-07 17:46:17
83.   Mike T
Roger is taking no prisoners tonight.
2007-08-07 17:47:17
84.   ChrisS
not much bantering going on at the ol' banter tonight.
2007-08-07 17:47:53
85.   Zack
I left for Vegas for two days and come back to no Myers, Bruney and Cairo and Joba and Giambi back, plus Cabrera confirmed by Torre as the CF for good, AND Duncan starting. Life is good. now if they can just trade Brower for Edwar, I'm golden...
2007-08-07 17:49:04
86.   Mike T
Nice, Duncan on the board with a hit.
2007-08-07 17:49:35
87.   pistolpete
84 Sorry, doing my grocery shopping online and watching the game.
2007-08-07 17:49:53
88.   Chyll Will
84 Blah-blah-blah! >;)
2007-08-07 17:51:35
89.   Zack
I heart Duncan
2007-08-07 17:51:55
90.   claybeez
Shelley's slide - I love it!
2007-08-07 17:52:00
91.   pistolpete
Frankenshelley kicked the glove clean off his hand! LOL!!
2007-08-07 17:52:02
92.   Chyll Will
87 FreshDirect?
2007-08-07 17:52:19
93.   Raf
ufff, what an ugly slide; Dunc coulda killed him!
2007-08-07 17:53:16
94.   Zack
93 Look at the replay, Duncan literally kicks the glove. Not dirty at all, actually really brilliant, but probably not intentional...

Seeing Duncan up close for the first time is a scary thing

2007-08-07 17:53:25
95.   nemecizer
Huh, gameday says sac bunt, but Melky is safe. There's also no error.
2007-08-07 17:54:22
96.   monkeypants
95 Yep. An old fashioned FC--throw to second but lead runner was safe, rather than taking the out at first.
2007-08-07 17:56:15
97.   monkeypants
Those last two pitches to Damon were close--I think the Jays pitcher got a little squeezed.
2007-08-07 17:57:25
98.   Mike T
bases loaded, no one out. let's blow this open.
2007-08-07 17:58:16
99.   Raf
94 That wasn't a slide so much as Dunc crash landing @ 2b.

I know it wasn't a dirty play, I'm just saying it was an awkward one

2007-08-07 17:59:40
100.   ChrisS
98 and the hitters don't get any easier for Tallet.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-08-07 18:00:45
101.   ChrisS
And Cap is now 3/4 against Tallet.
2007-08-07 18:01:15
102.   Zack
99 I'm not sure Duncan knows graceful...
2007-08-07 18:01:22
103.   OldYanksFan
It's HA! time
2007-08-07 18:02:08
104.   pistolpete
92 Shoprite from Home, actually. I put the order in and they have it waiting for me the next day... $10 extra but saves me at least 2 hours a week from walking up & down the aisles.

It's worth it.

2007-08-07 18:03:39
105.   OldYanksFan
105 Really? $10 per order flat fee?
2007-08-07 18:04:57
106.   pistolpete
105 Yessir. Why, too much, ya think?
2007-08-07 18:09:49
107.   Cliff Corcoran
Okay, the YES guys (Leiter and Kay) keep saying no one swung and missed in Clemens' last start. That is not true. It only happened twice in 39 pitches, but it happened.
2007-08-07 18:12:05
108.   rsmith51
107 Did you go back and check, Cliff?
2007-08-07 18:13:33
109.   SF Yanks
108 I was just going to ask that. How do you know that Cliff? Just curious.
2007-08-07 18:14:27
110.   Cliff Corcoran
108 Didn't have to because I charted pitches for that game for my SI.com column linked above. The two swing-and-misses were Pierzynski and Dye, the last two batters he faced. Both were splitters low in the zone.
2007-08-07 18:15:26
111.   Schteeve
110 It's best to ignore the facts when they don't fit your worldview. Haven't you learned anything from politics?
2007-08-07 18:18:29
112.   OldYanksFan
106 Not if ya make more then $10/hr. I wonder if Walmart offers that.

Man, Roger is just on CRUISE CONTROL.
He looked crappy until ARod got hit.

2007-08-07 18:19:03
113.   monkeypants
4 BB...

The end is nigh!

2007-08-07 18:19:56
114.   3rd gen yankee fan
FOUR WALKS IN A GAME FOR ROBBIE?????
2007-08-07 18:20:00
115.   Mattpat11
Do you send Rajah out there to knock someone's head off and then bring in Joba?
2007-08-07 18:20:27
116.   JeremyM
113 I think that HBP saved the world from spinning off it's axis....
2007-08-07 18:20:30
117.   Mattpat11
THE END IS NIGH
2007-08-07 18:20:38
118.   monkeypants
113

Phew, it hit him. I thought we were going to see four horseman next.

2007-08-07 18:21:05
119.   Knuckles
I heard the bj ryan bobblehead doll comes broken, but jp ricciardi doesn't tell you until two weeks later.
2007-08-07 18:21:16
120.   Knuckles
I heard the bj ryan bobblehead doll comes broken, but jp ricciardi doesn't tell you until two weeks later.
2007-08-07 18:22:04
121.   Comrade Al
20 Good thing there is noone in the big leagues named Churchill (as far as I know).
2007-08-07 18:22:42
122.   monkeypants
115 I send Roger out to get two outs, then send in Farnsworth to level the next guy.
2007-08-07 18:22:47
123.   rsmith51
I am still shocked that Cairo is no longer on the Yankees. Does Minky even come back to the Yanks?
2007-08-07 18:22:59
124.   Mattpat11
It really seems like announcers go out of their way to suck off Lyle Overbay.

He's not hitting a lick, but but being the most overrated player in baseball, they have to praise him somehow, so they praise his ability to catch the ball.

2007-08-07 18:24:10
125.   Eirias
Stop that Detroit! To think, they were on such a roll last week.
2007-08-07 18:24:26
126.   Mattpat11
RAJAH!
2007-08-07 18:24:36
127.   rsmith51
Didn't see that one coming...

Not!

2007-08-07 18:24:47
128.   SF Yanks
I KNEW that was coming any pitch now.
2007-08-07 18:25:07
129.   Zack
Awesome Rog...Think that was planned?
2007-08-07 18:25:17
130.   Jersey
I'm incredibly relieved by Clemens' start tonight, after all the disconcerting dropoff talk about him. Is he pitching as well as his line would indicate?
2007-08-07 18:25:38
131.   Jersey
I'm incredibly relieved by Clemens' start tonight, after all the disconcerting dropoff talk about him.
2007-08-07 18:25:46
132.   Mattpat11
129 Think?
2007-08-07 18:25:54
133.   Zack
Clemens TOWERED over that ump..hes freaking huge
2007-08-07 18:26:19
134.   Comrade Al
Farnsworth time?
2007-08-07 18:26:21
135.   Simone
Nice to have the Enforcer Clemens back.
2007-08-07 18:26:50
136.   3rd gen yankee fan
Damn I'd love to know what Roger said.
2007-08-07 18:27:17
137.   ny2ca2dc
Welcome back Rocket. Nice that Brower was already warming... and now Joba will have plenty of time to get warm & start the 8th.

couldn't'a happened any better. hmm....

2007-08-07 18:27:37
138.   monkeypants
123 He was moved to the 60 day DL, and I am sure they will find reasons why he can't come back, at least not until after a lengthy rehab stint in Tamp. He will be made to go a way quietly.
2007-08-07 18:27:40
139.   JeremyM
I love it. Shut them down for 6 innings and wham. Now the bullpen needs to keep the door shut, I would be sick if Toronto came back here!
2007-08-07 18:28:21
140.   Mattpat11
137 Almost as if it was planned.

Not that I'd suggest Roger Clemens or Joe Torre would ever do any such thing.

2007-08-07 18:28:29
141.   Jersey
Wow - DRays tie it up in Detroit with a 4-run 8th. And Baltimore takes a 1-run lead in Seattle. Come on, teams I never, ever root for!
2007-08-07 18:28:34
142.   Chyll Will
Might as well, he's reached his inning quota after all... >;)
2007-08-07 18:28:34
143.   OldYanksFan
Roger walked by ARod and said... HA!
2007-08-07 18:28:50
144.   Marcus
Jim Brower? WHy not Joba? Seems like a fine opportunity.
2007-08-07 18:29:19
145.   ny2ca2dc
143 priceless
2007-08-07 18:29:22
146.   Mattpat11
138 Keep him away at all costs until the beginning of September. Then call him up and let him rot on the bench.
2007-08-07 18:29:38
147.   Alex Belth
Lookit the Yankees with some cock'n'balls. Dude, if they make the playoffs, this will be the game people remember. The Yanks make a good move dropping Cairo, they rally around A Rod--Shelley and then Roger. (Now, they just can't blow this game.) Shelley's slide just adds to his budding popularity. As a matter of fact, that slide pretty much secures his mini-legend. Remember the last time a Yankee came in that hard? Neither do I. And the fact that it led to a run makes it even sweeter.
2007-08-07 18:29:43
148.   cult of basebaal
thealarmis and I say HI! from the ATL! ... here's to the 1st MLB appearance of The Hut!!!
2007-08-07 18:29:44
149.   Mattpat11
144 They don't want to bring Joba in with runners on
2007-08-07 18:30:15
150.   Chyll Will
133 Angel Hernandez is a small man in many ways...
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-08-07 18:30:42
151.   ny2ca2dc
147 Josh Phelps taking out... who was it? Johjima?
2007-08-07 18:31:26
152.   OldYanksFan
[140} Torre didn't have to say a thing. Destiny was made in the 2nd inning. No talk was needed. I did think Roger would wait until 2 outs, but I guess he wanted to make sure there was no one on at the time.

Torre and Clem having a beer in the clubhouse, watching the game, having a good laugh.

2007-08-07 18:31:30
153.   Comrade Al
Farnsworth could have done that.
2007-08-07 18:31:43
154.   ny2ca2dc
Brower's a good enough choice here. Might as well let Joba start & finish the 8th. I'm about to piss myself in anticipation...
2007-08-07 18:31:45
155.   Mattpat11
151 He nailed Johjima for no apparent reason. He was like three feet off the plate.
2007-08-07 18:32:22
156.   Mattpat11
153 No reason to being Worthless in a game. Let him rot.
2007-08-07 18:32:27
157.   monkeypants
The only problems--

1] Now they have to trust Brower, who just added another baserunner.

2] Clemens may get suspended (it always seems to work that way).

I would rather Farnsworth drilled a guy, and then got suspended.

2007-08-07 18:32:54
158.   ny2ca2dc
155 right, that's the one i'm talking about. that was a little TOO much cock'n'ballz
2007-08-07 18:33:03
159.   seamus
we're going to need joba NOW!
2007-08-07 18:33:25
160.   Mattpat11
Brower isn't very good.
2007-08-07 18:33:39
161.   Comrade Al
156 Sorry,
2007-08-07 18:34:11
162.   JeremyM
If Roger is suspended, something is seriously wrong with the game of baseball right now.
2007-08-07 18:34:29
163.   Alex Belth
Good call on Jojima. That play was borderline dirty.

Nice play, Johnny.

2007-08-07 18:34:33
164.   Comrade Al
{156]161 That was supposed to be </sarcasm>
2007-08-07 18:34:39
165.   Mattpat11
158 After the game, Kenji said something like "he must have been excited about getting a hit"
2007-08-07 18:34:42
166.   monkeypants
Well played by Damon.

So, does Brower only give up line drives (outs or hits)?

2007-08-07 18:34:45
167.   Eirias
Brower is not endearing himself to me.
2007-08-07 18:35:07
168.   OldYanksFan
WTFWT?
2007-08-07 18:35:27
169.   ny2ca2dc
157 Ideal would be Farns coming in, plunking a mother, then getting DFA'd. Plausible deniability.

Oops. that'll be the end of JD, LF.

2007-08-07 18:35:39
170.   Chyll Will
153 You can't leave delicate operations like that to a man who could easily balk with no one on.

Okay, time for Mr. LuvaMan to make his debut...

2007-08-07 18:35:39
171.   Mattpat11
This game is getting a bad Bill Mueller feeling.
2007-08-07 18:36:22
172.   rsmith51
I guess Clemens is getting his...
2007-08-07 18:36:32
173.   JeremyM
So eight years of a poor MLB track record does mean something after all?
2007-08-07 18:36:36
174.   monkeypants
162 But in a sense, he should be suspended. It was clearly a premeditated act. The problem is that suspensions, warnings, ejecttions, etc. are not applied consistently. The Jays' starters yesterday and today should have been ejected for intentionally throwing at A-Rod, and should probably face suspensions.
2007-08-07 18:37:00
175.   nyy jim
Nice decoy Johnny except it didn't fool anybody
2007-08-07 18:37:02
176.   Yankees Brasil
Why even have Brower in your major league team??
2007-08-07 18:37:31
177.   Comrade Al
Man, Glaus is glost now.
2007-08-07 18:37:35
178.   seamus
how long does brower stay in there?
2007-08-07 18:38:13
179.   Mattpat11
176 He has "major league experience"
2007-08-07 18:38:18
180.   seamus
and detroit threatening.. :(
2007-08-07 18:38:22
181.   Yankees Brasil
178 I just hope they don´t bring Farnsworth after him..
2007-08-07 18:38:51
182.   rsmith51
Brower is not going to last long, is he?
2007-08-07 18:39:13
183.   Zack
I imagine Brower will be sent down soon...NO room for mediocrity with Edwar tearing up the mL...

Ok, why is Viz up? Jesus, someone save Joe from himself!

2007-08-07 18:39:21
184.   Mattpat11
178 He can't come in in the middle of a inning either. Not because they're protecting him like Joba. Largely because he's worthless.
2007-08-07 18:39:21
185.   ny2ca2dc
Clearly, Brower can only give up line drives. Christ. Suxorz for Brower, who up till now was having the best year of his life..... was nice while it lasted.
2007-08-07 18:39:34
186.   Chyll Will
At least we know who Edwar replaces tomorrow...
2007-08-07 18:39:59
187.   rsmith51
You may run like Little Egypt, but you hit like shit.
2007-08-07 18:40:08
188.   monkeypants
Hey, Vizcaino is warming--that's a shock.
2007-08-07 18:40:15
189.   ny2ca2dc
186 True
2007-08-07 18:40:35
190.   Mattpat11
183 Can't use Chamberlain, can't use Worthless, Karstens isn't very good.
2007-08-07 18:40:59
191.   Eirias
174 Was it premeditated, though? It has become the trend for announcers to declare a every plunking as "intentional" or "payback" if there is the slightest hint of friction between the two teams. Clemens did hit him in the middle of the back, but that doesn't necessarily mean it was on purpose, despite the furor earlier in the game. He is whipping a ball at a 4.5 square foot box at 90+ miles per hour.
2007-08-07 18:41:01
192.   seamus
and detroit and seattle take leads...
2007-08-07 18:41:12
193.   Comrade Al
That should end Brower's career on a nice note!
2007-08-07 18:41:15
194.   monkeypants
Phew...damage minimized. Brace yourself for Jobamania.
2007-08-07 18:41:17
195.   rsmith51
Nice job, Brower.

Joba for the eighth?

2007-08-07 18:41:29
196.   ny2ca2dc
PHEW! now get Viz to a massage chair or something
2007-08-07 18:42:03
197.   Yankees Brasil
Just glad we survived this inning..
2007-08-07 18:42:11
198.   ny2ca2dc
191 Are you serious?
2007-08-07 18:42:56
199.   Eirias
198 Yes. I am only listening to the game, but yes.
2007-08-07 18:43:12
200.   Mattpat11
191

Roger Clemens doesn't miss that badly by accident

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-08-07 18:43:16
201.   ny2ca2dc
Damnit, Detroit & Seattle just retook their leads
2007-08-07 18:43:45
202.   Eirias
198 If it was intentional, why would Clemens be so pissed, as Sterling says he was, that he was booted from the game?
2007-08-07 18:43:50
203.   ny2ca2dc
As usual, MLB.TV takes a crap 'round the 7th/8th inning....
2007-08-07 18:44:11
204.   rsmith51
Not worried about Seattle. Am worried about Detroit, Cleveland, and Boston.
2007-08-07 18:44:22
205.   monkeypants
195 Unfortunately, Viz warmed, and apparently that dictates he must come in teh game. Viz for the 8th and Joba for the 9th?
2007-08-07 18:44:32
206.   ny2ca2dc
202 Because the Jays pitchers should'a been ejected a long time ago. the double standard probably. It was pretty blatant...
2007-08-07 18:44:53
207.   OldYanksFan
Suspension? So the FIRST pitcher to intentionally hit someone gets it free, while the guy who evens things up is suspended? That's not fair. Getting throw out of the game is one thing, but a suspension is rediculous.
2007-08-07 18:45:23
208.   monkeypants
Where are the Jays playing Melky in thhe OF--he's reached the wall every AB.
2007-08-07 18:45:31
209.   Zack
Chubby Melky is en fuego
2007-08-07 18:45:38
210.   ny2ca2dc
Melky just padding his SLG now... Thats my boy!
2007-08-07 18:46:04
211.   rsmith51
I always thought when Melky bats LH, he looks like Brian Giles. Does he look like Marcus Giles batting RH?
2007-08-07 18:46:27
212.   Mattpat11
202 I think he's furious about this whole situation.

He didn't accidentally hit a man between the shoulder blades at the beginning of the seventh inning after they threw at one of his players.

2007-08-07 18:46:50
213.   Chyll Will
191 I agree with you for the most part, but Clemens not only pegged him square in the back, but threw it less hard than he would if he were aiming for the plate. There was know slip in his hand, either.
2007-08-07 18:47:56
214.   ny2ca2dc
Man, Andy Phillips the only one to not reach base - when can he be re-relegated to backup 1B & Shelly made the everyday 1B. Can you imagine the sickness of that.
2007-08-07 18:49:40
215.   ny2ca2dc
212 I think you're right, he was really piping mad. Love it. Joba ready, oh man, the anticipation.
2007-08-07 18:49:54
216.   monkeypants
214 I can, until the league figures Duncan out and he regresses. I'm just happy the choice is between those two, and not Cairo and Minky.
2007-08-07 18:50:11
217.   Chyll Will
212 I would be, too.
2007-08-07 18:50:52
218.   Mattpat11
217 I didn't mean to suggest that he was wrong in feeling that way.
2007-08-07 18:50:56
219.   Zack
Dang, cap'n hit it hard there
2007-08-07 18:52:39
220.   RIYank
This is my kind of retaliation. Forget the plunking crap, just beat them senseless.
2007-08-07 18:52:52
221.   Mattpat11
I really want to humiliate the Blue Jays here.
2007-08-07 18:53:27
222.   Zack
Soooo, with Abreu's hot streak since May, do the Yanks resign him next season for less $?
2007-08-07 18:53:42
223.   monkeypants
220 Agreed. A-Rod got plunked and then scored. Rios got plunked and then scored.
2007-08-07 18:53:43
224.   ny2ca2dc
DET & SEA pulling away a bit, darn it.
2007-08-07 18:53:59
225.   Chyll Will
218 No, I get it; I would be as mad as he was if it were me.
2007-08-07 18:54:46
226.   ny2ca2dc
222 Maybe he'd go for a Moose deal (~10-11mil per for 2 years)? That would be good for both sides... And no no-trade. ;)
2007-08-07 18:54:55
227.   Mattpat11
223 We can afford it. We had a seven run lead. Yankees can't send the message that they'll just allow they best player to repeatedly get hit.
2007-08-07 18:56:09
228.   monkeypants
227 In hindsight they could afford it. Brower made that inning pretty interesting.
2007-08-07 18:56:32
229.   ny2ca2dc
227 Right. The pitch behind him yesterday I thought was quite appropriate - but this shit today not cool. Pegging Cano (accident, but still) made it egregious.
2007-08-07 18:57:44
230.   Zack
Oooh, here we go...and my pizzas out of the oven, bad timing!
2007-08-07 18:58:29
231.   Zack
I think Clemens is a pretty good guy to send a message too, not many guys will pursue anything with him...
2007-08-07 18:58:33
232.   Mattpat11
229 Frankly, I don't think any of it was appropriate. Their whole point seems to be that Howie Clark sucks and that's Alex Rodriguez's fault.
2007-08-07 18:58:39
233.   RIYank
Oh boy.
2007-08-07 18:59:13
234.   ny2ca2dc
231 I still would've preferred Farns coming out to meet out justice - so he's good for SOMETHING... Not that Roger would've allowed such a thing.
2007-08-07 18:59:28
235.   Zack
232 Duh. It's ALWAYS A-Rod's fault...
2007-08-07 18:59:52
236.   Mattpat11
Here we go.
2007-08-07 18:59:53
237.   Chyll Will
That Grey Goose commercial was obviously not meant for me...
2007-08-07 19:00:51
238.   ny2ca2dc
I think Kay just misused "Glib"
2007-08-07 19:01:17
239.   Zack
The whole "joba is better than Hughes" stuff is so shortsighted to me...but it is fun to hear :)
2007-08-07 19:01:19
240.   pistolpete
IMO, THIS guy looks like the 2nd coming of Rocket - Hughes looks more like a Mussina-type with his stuff.
2007-08-07 19:01:46
241.   Mattpat11
238 Its a hard word to correctly use in a sentence.
2007-08-07 19:02:11
242.   ny2ca2dc
Holy shit, he's shaking off Po...

And here comes the (legit) sob story.

2007-08-07 19:02:13
243.   RIYank
Slurp.

Slider?

2007-08-07 19:02:20
244.   Comrade Al
Here comes uncle Charlie!
2007-08-07 19:02:37
245.   Zack
Nasty!
2007-08-07 19:02:45
246.   Chyll Will
Sick Slider...
2007-08-07 19:02:54
247.   ny2ca2dc
i need to change my underpants....
2007-08-07 19:03:08
248.   Mattpat11
240 People always laugh at me when I say this, but I'd certainly take another Mike Mussina. I really think Mike is a HOF pitcher.

Don't get me wrong, I'd rather the next Roger, but I don't consider the next Mussina a bust

2007-08-07 19:03:08
249.   Zack
We need one of those Joba roars
2007-08-07 19:03:24
250.   Comrade Al
242 I'm still getting over Kay's "Faulty Towers" remark.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2007-08-07 19:03:48
251.   Mattpat11
242 We'll hear it 25 times before the year ends.
2007-08-07 19:04:17
252.   Zack
248 I agree 100%. People seem to think the Moose of the last two or so years is the Moose of old. The Moose until two seasons ago was a great pitcher.

And, comparing people to Roger is silly b/c there simply won't be another "Roger." Period.

2007-08-07 19:04:23
253.   pistolpete
Also, stop with the whole 'stunt his growth as a starter' nonsense.

Two words: Johan Santana

2007-08-07 19:04:26
254.   Comrade Al
Detroit wins. Carp!
2007-08-07 19:04:46
255.   Chyll Will
Do you see how easy he's throwing, and he's hitting upper 90's?
2007-08-07 19:05:24
256.   pistolpete
If you squint he looks like Roger!
2007-08-07 19:05:26
257.   ChrisS
what's he hitting on the gun?
2007-08-07 19:05:57
258.   RIYank
Hm, a little nervous?
2007-08-07 19:06:18
259.   Zack
253 Yeah, but Santana was used for 2-3 innings every 6 days. Sort of mimicking a starter. Joba will, within the week, be pitching the 8th inning every day/other day if Joe has his way
2007-08-07 19:07:24
260.   Mattpat11
I'll take it Mike.

That's just the kind of player Overbay is. he takes ball four when its not in the zone. Alot of people probably don't realize how good Lyle Overbay is like that. Overbay is just a great player.

2007-08-07 19:07:47
261.   pistolpete
259 Somehow I don't think so. I think Joba pitches every 3-4 days for an inning or two, which isn't horrible for a potential starter.
2007-08-07 19:07:48
262.   Mattpat11
257 97
2007-08-07 19:08:17
263.   ny2ca2dc
Nice try Melk! Good sell attempt!
2007-08-07 19:08:32
264.   Chyll Will
That was actually funny!
2007-08-07 19:08:37
265.   Mattpat11
Nice inning.
2007-08-07 19:08:49
266.   RIYank
257 Topped out at 98. Two or three times. A few more at 96.
2007-08-07 19:09:01
267.   Comrade Al
CHAMBERLAIN DOES NOT WILT ???
2007-08-07 19:09:05
268.   Eirias
I like it that Joba immediately walked off the mound as the ball was hit. He didn't even need to look.
2007-08-07 19:09:39
269.   Schteeve
I kinda have a feeling we just watched something.
2007-08-07 19:09:43
270.   ny2ca2dc
Pretty damn impressive. Couple more tries, he gets his nerves worked out, and look out.
2007-08-07 19:10:07
271.   rsmith51
253 I am surprised that Santana isn't mentioned more as a reason to start in the bullpen
2007-08-07 19:10:32
272.   Mattpat11
268 Clearly he wasn't watching Damon in left on the Frank Thomas double.
2007-08-07 19:10:32
273.   Chyll Will
(Cough-cough) How long were you waiting to dust that one off, Kay? (cough-cough)
2007-08-07 19:10:38
274.   Chyll Will
(Cough-cough) How long were you waiting to dust that one off, Kay? (cough-cough)
2007-08-07 19:11:23
275.   Eirias
Kason Gabbard, one run on three hits through five. Go Schadenfreude!
2007-08-07 19:11:27
276.   pistolpete
A Giambino sighting!
2007-08-07 19:11:46
277.   Mattpat11
3-0 on Cano
2007-08-07 19:13:29
278.   Shaun P
271 Liriano started last year in the pen too. Given the way the Twins turn out pitchers, you'd think someone way say something. Classic Earl Weaver, though he said to work in a rookie starter as the long man in the pen, not in short relief. Close enough for Joba for right now.
2007-08-07 19:14:11
279.   RIYank
Andy breaks through!

Hey, is Joba going to pitch the ninth too?

2007-08-07 19:14:18
280.   Mattpat11
I'm not entirely sure Kay knows how old Shelley Duncan is.
2007-08-07 19:14:44
281.   Chyll Will
Shelly reminds me more of Quasimodo than Frankenstein, but they're both well represented there...
2007-08-07 19:15:17
282.   ny2ca2dc
278 Well, just give Joba the Farnsworth-baby treatment. Joe knows how to do that.

sorta

2007-08-07 19:15:25
283.   pistolpete
Kay you dummy, there's no 'ee' sound in 'plantar fasciitis'...
2007-08-07 19:15:26
284.   Eirias
Giambi beat out a DP?
2007-08-07 19:15:37
285.   Schteeve
There goes that bum Giambi clogging up the bases again.
2007-08-07 19:15:57
286.   JL25and3
Michael Kay also just gave us his Irony of the Day: Jason Giambi is pinch-hitting for Shelley Duncan...and when Shelley Duncan was a kid, he probably knew Jason Giambi because his father was pitching coach for the A's.

Dripping with irony.

2007-08-07 19:16:22
287.   Schteeve
280 He clearly had no idea.
2007-08-07 19:16:47
288.   Chyll Will
You could say a loose boxcar is "running okay"...
2007-08-07 19:17:28
289.   Mattpat11
286 And apparently Shelley was ten in 1995.
2007-08-07 19:19:15
290.   ny2ca2dc
286 People who don't know how to use that word should just say "neat" or, i duno, 'interesting'. Don't out-think yourself Mikey.

Hopefully we'll see a lot of Giambi as the starting DH with Damon pinch running for him in the later innings. I just worry about his foot while running, and JD is SLIGHTLY different than PR with Cairo and then having Cairo come around to hit in an important spot.

2007-08-07 19:19:43
291.   Mattpat11
The visual of Curtis Thigpen next to The Big Hurt must be kind of funny
2007-08-07 19:20:03
292.   monkeypants
Two innings for Joba--interesting. Maybe they are going to use him only every few days?
2007-08-07 19:20:07
293.   Schteeve
Pinching Thigpen for Thomas is like throwing raw meat at a lion.
2007-08-07 19:20:11
294.   RIYank
Oh, that slider. It's a good slider.
2007-08-07 19:20:52
295.   Eirias
286 Irony is kind of like steely, right?
2007-08-07 19:21:12
296.   ny2ca2dc
Man, that's ANOTHER pair of underpants. christ.
2007-08-07 19:21:20
297.   rsmith51
290 I think coincidentally generally works for most times people use irony. Though, they have different meanings.
2007-08-07 19:21:40
298.   Mattpat11
292 You have realize. We still have Kyle Farnsworth to be a setup man.

He throws 100 mph, donchaknow.

2007-08-07 19:21:57
299.   Shaun P
Is Joba just setting up a DP? Why throw 4 straight balls to Hector Luna?
2007-08-07 19:22:04
300.   Chyll Will
293 That's exactly what I was thinking...
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2007-08-07 19:22:16
301.   RIYank
Still nervous?
He didn't walk anyone in relief in the minors, right?
2007-08-07 19:22:28
302.   monkeypants
A little nerbes, and even average ML players can lay off the pitches just off the plate. But his 'stuff' looks awfully good.
2007-08-07 19:23:51
303.   monkeypants
299 Good call!
2007-08-07 19:23:55
304.   Comrade Al
Thuuuuh Yankees ... you know.
2007-08-07 19:24:02
305.   rsmith51
299 Nice idea, Shaun.
2007-08-07 19:24:15
306.   Mattpat11
Maybe Worthless should sit down with Joba and discuss how to be a fastball/slider pitcher.
2007-08-07 19:24:31
307.   Shaun P
Is he throwing mostly sliders? Gameday has his last 9 pitches as all low and around the outside corner.

299 HA!

2007-08-07 19:24:36
308.   Schteeve
Seriously, this guy is gonna be bananas. He looks like an absolute stud in his first MLB appearance.
2007-08-07 19:24:39
309.   pistolpete
Nice recovery, Joba. Way to...um... freeze those batters in, uh... carbonite.

Ugh, sorry all.

2007-08-07 19:24:47
310.   monkeypants
302 Sigh--'nerves', not 'nerbes.' Hmmm...maybe ML players have nerbes, also?
2007-08-07 19:24:53
311.   RIYank
HA!

That was a good pounding. I would have preferred 16-0, but that was good enough.

Now Wang can shut these turkeys down tomorrow and we can leave these birds with a nasty taste in their little beaks.

2007-08-07 19:26:03
312.   Mattpat11
I want to humiliate the Toronto Blue Jays. Everyone from the players on the field to the manager to Ricciardi to Ted Rogers.

Go for the jugular tomorrow.

2007-08-07 19:26:33
313.   3rd gen yankee fan
HA! indeed. Screw you, Taranna.
2007-08-07 19:26:33
314.   nyy jim
Is it possible we have somebody dependable in the pen besides MO? Great outing for his first time out.
2007-08-07 19:26:37
315.   Shaun P
303 305 Thanks. I just figured he was toying with these puny mortal Blue Jays hitters. ;)

How psyched will we all be on Friday? Hughes starting, and if he pitches well (and long) enough, Joba can come in after him, and then Mo. EI better have that game.

2007-08-07 19:26:43
316.   JL25and3
306 Come on. Ol' Struggling Mightily has nothing left to learn.
2007-08-07 19:26:50
317.   Chyll Will
Torre needs to figure out a way to get Farns to talk to this kid...

Mr LuvaMan (JOBA!!) Champ-yun Luva!

2007-08-07 19:28:17
318.   Comrade Al
317 Monkeys read philosophy; they just don't understand it.
2007-08-07 19:29:01
319.   RIYank
306 But Joba has to promise not to listen.
2007-08-07 19:29:50
320.   Mattpat11
To be completely honest, I'd authorize Kerrigan to use whatever force necessary to keep Farnsworth away from him.
2007-08-07 19:31:26
321.   ny2ca2dc
317 I want Farns nowhere near Joba. No Where Near.

I really hope they don't suspend Clemens - Shenanigans with the rotation we do not need....

2007-08-07 19:31:32
322.   pistolpete
Did Kay just say Joba's heritage was from the 'Winebago' tribe? I don't think I heard that right...
2007-08-07 19:32:18
323.   Comrade Al
322 Rootabaga?
2007-08-07 19:32:25
324.   Chyll Will
317 By that I actually meant "learn something from Joba", not "talk Joba into mediocrity." But as I jinx Mattpat, I acknowledge that JL is probably right.

Big up to my "Native American" fam, HA!!

2007-08-07 19:32:59
325.   Mattpat11
322http://tinyurl.com/yw7syy
2007-08-07 19:35:19
326.   pistolpete
325 I did hear that right...

So was that the tribe who moved across the country in oversized RV's? That must have helped repel arrows and gunfire really well!

2007-08-07 19:36:32
327.   RIYank
No, seriously, Winnebago. He is.
2007-08-07 19:37:03
328.   rsmith51
Winnebago was in our conference in high school in northern Illinois.
2007-08-07 19:38:12
329.   Comrade Al
Winnebago Wunderkind?
2007-08-07 19:42:38
330.   Chyll Will
322,323 Winnebago, which was meant to be pejorative by neighboring tribes. The real name is Ho-Chunk (their original native name was Hotcâŋgara - big fish people).

More info than anyone cared for, I bet >;)

2007-08-07 19:42:44
331.   OldYanksFan
Doesn't look like we're gaining much ground tonight, but we look like a well oiled machine. Wang tomorrow for the sweep.
2007-08-07 19:43:59
332.   3rd gen yankee fan
Hey, there's a team in Anaheim that's not letting Boston walk all over them... might be worth watching...
2007-08-07 19:45:01
333.   RIYank
330 Holy carp. Nice use of entities, too, Will!
2007-08-07 19:45:26
334.   Mattpat11
Rocket's YES photo is much more flattering than his gameday photo.
2007-08-07 19:45:58
335.   pistolpete
332 1-1, Wakefield letting multiple men on in every inning. This could be a very good thing.
2007-08-07 19:47:01
336.   JL25and3
327 http://tinyurl.com/2e8dv2

Bottom of the page.

2007-08-07 19:47:08
337.   Shaun P
331 Dare we dream - back to back sweeps?
2007-08-07 19:48:15
338.   RIYank
Jerry Owens reaches on a passed ball in the bottom of the ninth! (In Chicago.)
2007-08-07 19:49:19
339.   Chyll Will
Duncan looked like he was gonna kill somebody when he came charging out. And why would anyone think anybody in the dugout would enjoy A-Rod getting hit like that at this point? A-Rod has carried this team most of the year; I don't see anyone saying "fu@#-im" if he takes a cheap shot, not even Jeter who wants to win above anything else. If they came out like that, I'm damn sure they didn't like what happened.
2007-08-07 19:51:51
340.   Mattpat11
337 I really want this sweep. I don't like this team. I don't like the players, I don't like the manager, I don't like the GM. I want to embarrass them.
2007-08-07 19:53:42
341.   Mattpat11
I also don't like Blue Jays fans
2007-08-07 19:55:50
342.   RIYank
What about LaBatt's Blue? Do you like LaBatt's? Everybody does, you must like it.
2007-08-07 19:56:49
343.   Mattpat11
Skunk beer
2007-08-07 19:58:04
344.   Chyll Will
Why do most sports reporters remind me of that jerky kid who always taunted someone when the bully was doing his thing?
2007-08-07 19:58:31
345.   RIYank
Hmmmm.

Maple syrup?

2007-08-07 19:59:39
346.   RIYank
AJ Pierzynski chokes with two on and two out and Cleveland wins 2-1.

No WC motion tonight.

2007-08-07 19:59:42
347.   Shaun P
343 Boo! Hiss! Ummm . . . Labatt's . . . (drooling noises)

I don't dislike the Blue Jays, but I don't like 'em either. I do appreciate that they seem to hate the Red Sox, and play them hard.

2007-08-07 19:59:42
348.   Mattpat11
Clemens said he respects Angel Hernandez. Surprisingly, he was not hit by lightning on the spot.
2007-08-07 20:00:02
349.   Chyll Will
Rajah trying his best not to get fined by MLB (and keep the suspension at a minimum)...
2007-08-07 20:03:54
350.   Chyll Will
348 Lightning tried to take out the pitcher and the man at second already >;)
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2007-08-07 20:04:37
351.   Mattpat11
347 The Blue Jays really got under my skin when they decided they were good and somehow convinced the talking heads that they were a player in the AL East. If I had to hear "with the acquisition of Lyle Overbay, could the Blue Jays be the team to beat in the AL East?" one more time I would have screamed. And that's before he told us to watch our backs or some such nonsense.

Gibbons and especially Ricciardi are smarmy SOBs that have never accomplished a god damned thing but carry themselves like they are the masterminds behind a juggernaut.

Ricciardi in particular certainly doesn't behave like the massive failure he has been.

2007-08-07 20:05:53
352.   Chyll Will
Me and Joba, we're gonna get along just fine...
2007-08-07 20:06:41
353.   RIYank
Did Matthews just rob Cocoa of a homer? That's how it looks on Gameday. I should listen to the game.
2007-08-07 20:09:41
354.   RIYank
Angels take the lead!
2007-08-07 20:11:38
355.   Chyll Will
Holy shyt. A-Rod has done a complete 180 from last year attitude-wise. I love it! It's like I always said it should be. I really hope he stays, but whatever he does I hope he keeps this attitude, it's definitely made a difference.
2007-08-07 20:12:36
356.   Chyll Will
Okay, g'nite people! zzzzz...
2007-08-07 20:35:14
357.   Mattpat11
LAA is catching up
2007-08-07 20:40:40
358.   seamus
the angels are giving a valiant effort. bases loaded, no out. down 4-3.
2007-08-07 20:42:15
359.   seamus
And the Angels take the lead 5-4. 1st and 2nd, still no out. Casey KOtchman is up.

Wakefield must have crappy control of his knuckler or something.

2007-08-07 20:44:18
360.   seamus
I hate how gameday sometimes fools me by flashing single again. Pitching change = Manny Delcarmen.
2007-08-07 20:48:12
361.   seamus
Kotchman grounds out to the pitcher. 2nd and 3rd and 1 out and since no one is here, i'm going to stop with this...
2007-08-07 20:50:10
362.   Mattpat11
6-4
2007-08-07 20:52:44
363.   Raf
756!
2007-08-07 20:53:09
364.   BklynBmr
Bonds* just did it. Zzzzzzzz...
2007-08-07 20:53:31
365.   seamus
363 thank god. now maybe in a few days the whole bonds watch and talk can be over with.
2007-08-07 20:53:48
366.   seamus
364 don't you mean it*
2007-08-07 20:54:24
367.   seamus
This Angels game is fun. 7-4, bases loaded again, 1 out.
2007-08-07 20:55:04
368.   Mattpat11
Oh Thank God. Its over.
2007-08-07 20:55:22
369.   BklynBmr
366 My bad. Thanks. ;-)
2007-08-07 20:58:55
370.   Raf
Well, if we could sit through Ripken & McGwire, we can sit through Bonds.

The message from Aaron was a cool touch.

2007-08-07 20:59:31
371.   Mattpat11
Its is amazing. One of the biggest records in sports has been broken and I don't care. Not even a little.
2007-08-07 21:00:28
372.   Raf
Next up, Sadaharu Oh
2007-08-07 21:00:42
373.   Mattpat11
370 I've sat through Major League Bonds for the last seven years
2007-08-07 21:01:05
374.   Shaun P
I would if Bonds will retire, or will chase 3000 hits too.

I'm glad that the very nuanced, very shades of gray issues surrounding Bonds will stop receiving the black and white treatment most of the MSM gives them.

Delcarmen stops the Angels, but still 7-4. =)

2007-08-07 21:01:59
375.   Raf
371 Chalk that up to the media and the Bonds witch hunt. But it was fun to watch.
2007-08-07 21:02:00
376.   seamus
So in all seriousness, how long is this brower thing gonna last. He can't pitch lots of innings if he can't get people out.
2007-08-07 21:02:58
377.   BklynBmr
371 It's too bad it was so joyless. The 'ol home run crown and heavyweight championship ain't what they used to be...
2007-08-07 21:03:28
378.   monkeypants
374 Ah yes, nuance. He was the best player in teh game. He decided he wanted to hit lots more HRs. He took PEDs. He broke the record. John Miller fellates him at every opportunity.

It really is a very complicated issue.

2007-08-07 21:04:39
379.   Shaun P
376 I'd rather Brower pitch than Farnsworth. Of course I'd rather see Edwar and Britton than both of those guys, but I'm trying to be realistic. =)

I don't think Brower will last long. Torre is easily angered by guys who don't throw strikes, and Brower does not have very good command.

2007-08-07 21:04:53
380.   Just fair
Go Screw, Barry.
2007-08-07 21:05:39
381.   Raf
377 Joyless? Looked like there were a lot of happy people in SF to me.
2007-08-07 21:05:42
382.   monkeypants
377 I'm glad it was joyless. Thse motherfuckers (players and owners) made it joyless, and they reaped what they have sowed.

The good news is that if the next player to challenge the record is clean, that will be doubly magical to folow.

2007-08-07 21:08:26
383.   Raf
378 "Cheating is baseball's oldest profession. No other game is so rich in skullduggery, so suited to it or so proud of it." - Thomas Boswell
2007-08-07 21:08:32
384.   Jersey
I really hope ARod, Pujols or one of these guys plays til they're 45, however long it takes, to break Barry's record*.

The one moment that got to me - just a little bit - was when he cracked mentioning his father. That was touching no matter what you think of Bonds.

2007-08-07 21:09:19
385.   monkeypants
376 379 I think Brower is a stopgap and they know it. Britton is back from the MiL DL--they'll give him a few days to see if he is performing OK. Edwar and Karstens are still floating around. In a couple of days, when the rotation is regularized (another time through with Hughes in place, and hopefully giving them 5 or 6 innings at least) and they see how Joba works out in the BP, they'll cut Brower loose.
2007-08-07 21:10:31
386.   Mattpat11
375 I really didn't enjoy it. I might consider it a witch hunt if he didn't actually do all the things he's accused of. This was essentially a man who was a Hall of Famer, deciding that wasn't enough for him. He then marched to the all time record, giving everyone the finger along the way.

Ah well. Nothing you can do now. Just hope he goes away.

2007-08-07 21:11:04
387.   yankz
Yeah, it seemed really...not unhappy, but it was nothing compared to Aaron. Anyway, congrats Barry.
2007-08-07 21:11:56
388.   monkeypants
383 Hmmm..I though racism and segregation were? Let's keep all the great old traditions in baseball.
2007-08-07 21:12:28
389.   Knuckles
I wish he'd done it in Philly, or Shea maybe.
That woulda been fun.
2007-08-07 21:13:18
390.   Mattpat11
I happier news, Eddie is off Ultimate Road Trip.

This show will be much easier to watch.

2007-08-07 21:14:05
391.   Raf
Say what you want, but had Bonds had the disposition of, say, Kirby Puckett, the media would be falling all over him. I'm glad he was able to do what he has done while all the time telling the powers that be "f- you."

Until they remove Gaylord Perry from the Hall of Fame, baseball has no moral high ground to take on Bonds.

2007-08-07 21:15:15
392.   Mattpat11
388 To be fair, Barry did try to turn it into a racist issue. The Man didn't want the black man to break...well, the other black man's record.
2007-08-07 21:15:35
393.   monkeypants
386 Agreed. The most amazing thing he did, and perhaps the most angering, was that he (and all his compadres of that era) took the most revered record in the America's most cherished sport--or at least the sport whose records are most cherished--and rendered it blasé. Congrats!
2007-08-07 21:16:26
394.   Mattpat11
391 If Barry Bonds had the disposition and mentality of Kirby Puckett, he probably wouldn't have decided that going down as an all time great wasn't enough for him.
2007-08-07 21:16:45
395.   3rd gen yankee fan
The Angels game is truly awesome.
2007-08-07 21:16:51
396.   seamus
angels lead 8-4. poor, poor...

make that 9-4.

2007-08-07 21:17:34
397.   yankz
If Bonds knowingly took illegal steroids, isn't that, you know, against the law? I think that's a little worse than a spitball.

392 I think monkeypants' point is, just because it happened in the past, doesn't mean it should happen again. I might be wrong.

2007-08-07 21:17:59
398.   Raf
383 If they could make money off of it, they'd have kept it around.
2007-08-07 21:18:17
399.   3rd gen yankee fan
377 Well, guess what. When Arod wins it -- it's gonna be fantastic. (I hope he's still with the Yankees.)
2007-08-07 21:18:23
400.   yankz
389 Did you see the guy who caught the ball? A Mets fan!
Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2007-08-07 21:19:51
401.   Raf
392 Compare and contrast the coverage between McGwire's run at the single season record, and Bond's run at the single season record.
2007-08-07 21:19:55
402.   Mattpat11
399 Well, my point was that in Barry's warped, steroid riddled mind, he's the still heroic black man that's only getting shit because he's black. He thinks the racism in baseball is still here.
2007-08-07 21:21:36
403.   monkeypants
389 Nah, he sandbagged enough a few days ago to guarantee he'd do it in friendlier territory.

391 That's a BS argument. 'Baseball' is not synonymous with the HOF ( seperate, private organization that sets its own rules for admissions). The HOF can decide what behaviour it will or will not tolerate. That doesn't vindicate Bonds from the perspective of the MLB or of the fans (or at least of this fan).

Second, no one need argue that Bonds does not deserve to be in the HOF--he did already years ago.

Third, Gaylord Perry's HOF status bear on the present discussion. Bringing him up is obfuscation via false dichotomy.

2007-08-07 21:21:55
404.   seamus
shut up about bonds already. who cares.

(i figure it can't hurt to try)

2007-08-07 21:24:05
405.   BklynBmr
394 If Bonds had the mentality of Kirby Puckett, he wouldn't have cheated on his wife — reportedly, the IRS — reportedly, and law — reportedly. Doing that — reportedly — while telling all who would take exceptions to those actions to stick it. Nice.
2007-08-07 21:24:30
406.   Raf
397 Tom House mentioned that steroids has been around in baseball since the '70s. So why the outrage now?

Fact is that MLB was too busy counting the $$ during the "home run explosion" and decided to look the other way.

The moral outrage from fans, owners, and players rings a bit hollow. ESPECIALLY given the names that have shown up as suspended. Neifi Perez? Matt Lawton? Guillermo Mota? Damian Moss? Are you kidding me?

2007-08-07 21:26:02
407.   Mattpat11
401 What about Chico Escuela? Sosa wasn't getting the Barry Bonds treatment.

Or does The Man just hate the black man?

With Bonds in 2001, it was readily apparent what was going on. In 1998 with Sosa and McGwire, not as much.

2007-08-07 21:27:39
408.   Mattpat11
405 he also threatened to kill that mistress
2007-08-07 21:28:11
409.   monkeypants
401 But even that is a bit misleading. The historical circumstances were different: MLB had recently come out of the strike, so they were looking to use the HR chase to win fans (yes, there is lots of blame to go around--I agree). But also, there was a white man and a black man (well, a minority--I guess Sosoa isn't 'all black' on teh Sheffield brown bag scale) chasing the record, and both were embraced. It's not like Sosa was ignored while the media favored McGuire.

Third, the single season record was at that point over thirty years old, so the chase was a novelty. When Sosa went over 60 multiple times and Bonds broke the record only a few years later--yawn.

Finally, by the time Bonds broke the record the tide of opinion had turned against players using steroids, as more and more came out (and more people dropped their willing disbelief).

To say that people loved Big Mac and ignored Bonds because of racism is very suspect, and best oversimplified.

2007-08-07 21:29:12
410.   yankz
406 What? Everybody who took steroids did something wrong. Bonds, Lawton, Random Scrub, Dude from the '70s, anyone. Period.

The fact that MLB dropped the ball doesn't make it OK.

Cheating is bad. Cheating by breaking the law is worse. I've always thought that, and if I had known McGwire was juicing in '98 (I wasn't as much of a baseball fan back then, I really had no idea), I would've been pissed then too. I don't know about you, but I'm sure most here would agree wth me.

2007-08-07 21:29:38
411.   Shaun P
404 For that, I will not post the 6 paragraph rant I just spent the last 25 minutes writing in response to 378.

I will say this - to say there isn't nuance involved when it comes to PEDs and sports, and especially Barry Bonds, is very naive. John Perricone does a far better job laying it all out than I ever could:

www.onlybaseballmatters.com

Good night all, and go Angels! (Still 9-4 as I type this.)

2007-08-07 21:30:36
412.   monkeypants
404 I agree with you. Sorry, silence is the best all the way around on this, but I got sucked in.

Let's get back to Brower and Farnsworth--the last two pieces of the puzzle as far as I see it. Ideally Britton and Edwar replace them, but I am not confident.

2007-08-07 21:32:38
413.   monkeypants
411 My only response to that--and I have read it before--is that far too often 'nuance' is a cover for abrogating personal culpability. And that applies to a whole range of things far beyond the world of sport.
2007-08-07 21:33:09
414.   yankz
411 I will always love that site. A Giants fan friend sent an article to me, and I found Bronx Banter through the links.
2007-08-07 21:34:01
415.   Shaun P
OK, one more thing:

410 Possession of amphetamines was illegal according to federal law in the 60s and 70s. I don't care if you consider them performance enhancing, performance enabling, or no big deal. They were illegal. So you'll need to add Pete Rose, Mantle, Mays, and a whole lot of other baseball icons (maybe even Hank Aaron himself) from those days to your list. As well as all the undocumented users from the 80s, 90s, and 00s. Law breakers the lot of 'em.

2007-08-07 21:34:06
416.   Mattpat11
409And people forget, Griffey was in on that hunt for a while as well and may have been the biggest fan favorite. I can only assume that Barry thinks THE MAN sabotaged that run.
2007-08-07 21:35:45
417.   Raf
407 Not as much? A reporter questioned McGwire on a bottle of andro in his locker was chewed out by LaRussa. You don't remember the Bill Gallo cartoons going around during the time?

As for Sosa, he was for all intents and purposes run out of Chicago.

2007-08-07 21:35:58
418.   seamus
I believe that Brower is the solution to our problems. I expect him to dominate and we should DFA this chamberpot dude.
2007-08-07 21:36:53
419.   seamus
What do y'all think about using Brower as an 8th inning guy?
2007-08-07 21:36:57
420.   yankz
[415} Really? I had no idea. That's not cool of them, at all.

Is there nothing sacred! Please, god, just tell me Jeter and A-rod stayed away from this shit.

2007-08-07 21:38:11
421.   monkeypants
417 He was run out of Chicago in 2004, when his OPS+ dropped to 110. But as long as he was slammin', they loved him.
2007-08-07 21:38:55
422.   Shaun P
413 You have a point, to which I would respond, I am not excusing anything Barry Bonds has (or has not) done. I just think the issue is far less settled, and far less clear ("Bonds is EVIL!") than one would be led to believe from reading the MSM.

We are, all of us, done a great disservice when instead of having an objective discussion of the issues, and their nuances, we are instead fed trash. And like you say, that applies to plenty of things outside the world of sports. =)

2007-08-07 21:39:32
423.   monkeypants
419 Not sure I agree. Farnsworth throws 100. I think you get him straightened out for the 8th, Brower and Viz for the 7th, and Chamberlain for long relief.
2007-08-07 21:40:28
424.   yankz
419 Can't be worse than the 8th inning guy we've been chucking out there all year.
2007-08-07 21:40:32
425.   Raf
410 After reading Ball Four, and the Pittsburgh Drug Trials, I am a bit jaded about drug use, performance enhancing, or otherwise, in baseball.
2007-08-07 21:40:43
426.   seamus
423 No, you can't waste Brower's veteran experience that early in the game. At least I don't think you should.

Any chance Cairo could come back and DH?

2007-08-07 21:41:48
427.   yankz
423 You kidding me? Chamberlain can barely buy a beer. He's getting Edwar'd.

Seriously though - Edwar struck out the side in his first appearance. I mean, frankly, he did better than Joba did. Why should I think Joba won't get Edward?

2007-08-07 21:42:07
428.   Shaun P
423 Shoot, why pitch Chamberlain at all? He's a rookie, fercryinoutloud! He doesn't get to pitch unless its a blowout, or unless its been two weeks since he last pitched. Don't you remember that other rookie, Edwin something-or-other? You know, he threw a great curveball?
2007-08-07 21:42:45
429.   monkeypants
426 You would have to demote Phillips or Duncan, but I'd make that swap any day.
2007-08-07 21:43:20
430.   yankz
428 Ok dude- get out of my head!!!
2007-08-07 21:43:24
431.   Raf
419 I'd rather have Edwar or Britton than Brower. Nice guy, don't get me wrong, but the Yanks have better options
2007-08-07 21:43:59
432.   seamus
Is Jeff Nelson available?
2007-08-07 21:44:23
433.   yankz
Oof. Check out LoHud. Hilarious, in that way Pete is.
2007-08-07 21:47:03
434.   BklynBmr
Well, if nothing else, the very mention of Bonds* (of which I'm partly to blame) is sucking the joy out of a sweet Halo beat down (so far) of our friends from Beantown.

LAA hangs on and it's 5 games. What a season so far. I'm already out of breath...

2007-08-07 21:48:02
435.   Mattpat11
410 People seem to think that mentioning the culpability of Bud Selig negates that of Barry Bonds. Or they try to defec6 the issue from Barry Bonds personal situation to one of the over all era. I assume they feel that if "every body" (heavy emphasis on the quotes) did it, they can convince people that Barry did nothing wrong.

Or they bring up someone like Matt Lawton who seemingly got worse on the juice and try to use that as some proof that steroids don't help you. This of couse, completely ignores the astronomical jump in Bonds' slugging percentage in that "disputed" period.

2007-08-07 21:48:47
436.   yankz
434 I've posted this a bunch now:

You know, we have 6 games left with the Sox...

2007-08-07 21:49:20
437.   Raf
434 They're two separate events, the enjoyment of one shouldn't take away from the enjoyment of another.
2007-08-07 21:50:33
438.   monkeypants
Meanwhile, in other "news", Was Watching manages a post that discusses tonight's game and still bitches about A-Rod somehow.

What's the deal with that dude's fixation?

2007-08-07 21:50:44
439.   yankz
435 Yeah. I agree. If everyone did it, they're all SOB's.
2007-08-07 21:51:20
440.   yankz
438 Yeah, I saw that. His commenters (apparently, that's not a world) are calling him out, at least.
2007-08-07 21:51:58
441.   seamus
438 a-rod yelled HA while he was trying to pick up a lady and he blew it.
2007-08-07 21:54:17
442.   seamus
Angels lead 10-4.
2007-08-07 21:57:34
443.   Raf
435 Point was that everyone is dirty, and that the the current finger pointing and the gnashing of teeth and rendering of garments rings a bit hollow.

One of the problems I had (have?) is that the public wants to have it both ways. Either the stuff helps or hurts. You can't gripe and groan and piss and moan about Bonds, McGwire, Palmiero, etc making a mockery about the integrity of the game (whatever that means) and say "well, they were always scrubs" about Lawton, Sanchez, Moss, Mota, etc.

2007-08-07 21:58:58
444.   BklynBmr
437 Agreed, though everyone here is enjoying one, but not everyone the other. I live in SF. The moment this media clusterfu*k ends can't come too soon for me...
2007-08-07 21:59:27
445.   seamus
431 no way edwar or britton are a better choice than Brower!
2007-08-07 22:01:36
446.   Mattpat11
417 People as a whole didn't understand what andro was at the time.

And when you talk about Scammin Sammy, whose attitude was getting out of control and whose production was in the process of falling off a cliff, you need to say he was run out of town by THE MAN.

When you play the race card and don't use the words "whitey" or "the man" it kills the affect you're going for.

Which, I can only assume is take attention of the actual issue at hand and make it about race, something that scares people off an argument because they don't want to be branded a racist. Its an old Jesse Jackson scare tactic. You can make anything about race and people will back down

2007-08-07 22:01:41
447.   Raf
438 Well, at least he isn't talking about Joba's velocity, or lack thereof :)

Or should we give him time :D

At the risk of reviving a dead horse, does anyone find it amusing that no one mentioned last year that Rodriguez performed better at home than on the road?

2007-08-07 22:05:00
448.   seamus
ok. good night all. angels about to seal the deal and we're down to 5 games behind the sox.

Tomorrow's game of Wang v. Halladay looks to be a good one.

2007-08-07 22:05:07
449.   BklynBmr
Wow. Wakefield has earned a decision in every one of his 25 starts this season...
2007-08-07 22:05:41
450.   3rd gen yankee fan
5 games, baby.
Show/Hide Comments 451-500
2007-08-07 22:07:28
451.   BklynBmr
450 5 and surging, baby!
2007-08-07 22:07:39
452.   Raf
446 There were articles explaining what Andro was at the time.

They get scared off because they don't believe in their convictions. If you don't want to believe racism exists, in either MLB or in the world, that's fine by me.

Anyway, the "diva" attitude is nothing new in ballplayers. Sosa wasn't the first franchise player to have that attitude, nor will he be the last.

2007-08-07 22:13:07
453.   Raf
450,451 Should be fun. Two more weeks until the "showdown." Hope they have somehow whittled the lead down to 3 games by then.

This season's shaping up to be a lot of fun

2007-08-07 22:14:08
454.   yankz
I'm not saying the Yanks are going to win the East. Chances are, they don't. But where are all those dbag Boston fans who were talking smack in May?
2007-08-07 22:18:11
455.   Raf
454 They'll probably show up depending on how things go 8/28-30
2007-08-07 22:21:58
456.   Mattpat11
452 And now I don't believe in racism in the world. Another classic Jackson scare tactic.

Barry Bonds, and, apparently you, are using racism as crutch in a situation that has nothing to do with racism. People don't hate Barry Bonds because he's a black man. Hell, people are furious that he just stole the major league record of a BLACK MAN. People hate Barry Bonds People hate Barry Bonds because of the shitty way he's behaved, both on and off the baseball field. Racism is a ridiculous cop out that distracts from legitimate examples of racism

And Sammy Sosa had stopped hitting, was rapidly becoming a PR nightmare, as his easy going Chico Escuela gimmick was rapidly being exposed as a fraud, and his teammates hated him. Perhaps Kerry Wood is THE MAN.

2007-08-07 22:23:14
457.   monkeypants
448 You fought the good fight.
2007-08-07 22:29:24
458.   BklynBmr
Maybe this will put the B*nds crap to rest for a while...

http://tinyurl.com/yqdt52

2007-08-07 22:35:31
459.   yankz
Damn, new thread up already. Guess Cliff isn't the only one of us up ridiculously late.
2007-08-07 22:39:31
460.   Raf
456 And lemme guess, you get to make the call as to what grievance is or isn't legitimate?

And what does Jesse Jackson have to do with anything?

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