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Silva Bullet
2007-07-03 20:22
by Cliff Corcoran

Who are these guys and what have they done with the 2007 New York Yankees?

The Yankees jumped out to an early 1-0 lead last night when Johnny Damon and Melky Cabrera singled and Damon scored on a groundout. Chein-Ming Wang made that hold up by limiting the Twins to a double through the first three innings. In the fourth he ran into some trouble, walking the first three men and giving up a single to Justin Morneau, but he escaped with the lead because the first walk was erased when Jorge Posada caught Jason Bartlett stealing, and Torii Hunter followed Morneau's bases-loading single by grounding into a double play. Wang got another DP following a leadoff single in the fifth. By then his lead had swelled to 3-0 thanks to a two-run Robinson Cano home run in the previous frame. Wang pitched out of trouble again in the sixth and then the Yankees went to town dropping a five-spot on Carlos Silva and Juan Rincon in the bottom of the inning.

The onslaught started when Jorge Posada hit a single to center that bounced past Torii Hunter allowing Posada to head to third as the Yankee dugout erupted in laughter as the sight of their 35-year-old catcher running out a would-be triple. Posada actually had two triples last year, but had gone three years without one before that (and remains without one this year as the hit was scored a single and a two-base error). Posada scored on a wild pitch, but the bases didn't remain empty for long as Hideki Matsui doubled and Bobby Abreu, in the midst of another three-hit night, singled him home. Andy Phillips then flew out to the warning track in left driving Silva from the game. Abreu greeted Rincon by stealing second. Rincon reacted by hitting Cano in the foot. Johnny Damon moved the runners over with a groundout, and Melky Cabrera drove them home with a single, moving to second on the throw home, which Cano avoided by sliding outside of home plate and sticking his left hand in between Joe Mauer's leg and tag. Derek Jeter then singled home Melky to complete the scoring.

Wang, Scott Proctor, and rookie Edwar Ramirez each pitched a scoreless frame to wrap things up, Ramirez dazzling by striking out the heart of the Twins' order on 14 pitches in his major league debut. Ramirez is exactly as advertised. His uniform hangs on his skinny frame, but he throws 90-mile-per-hour fastballs mixed with sliders then puts hitters away with a changeup in the high-70s that just falls off a table when it reaches the plate. Michael Cuddyer, Justin Morneau, and Lew Ford (hitting for Torii Hunter who was ejected in the eight for jawing at home plate umpire Ron Kulpa from the dugout) each went down swinging, missing Ramirez's change by a good foot each.

Some other items of note: Alex Rodriguez went 0 for 4 and came out of the game after popping up to end the Yankees' sixth-inning rally, but didn't seem to be favoring his sore hamstring. He's expected to DH tomorrow, and remains one of just two players to start every game this season (Ichiro Suzuki being the other).

Johnny Damon has a hit in six of his last seven games (including the suspended finale in Baltimore), but he's only hitting .267/.333/.400 over that span and did not play in the only game the Yankees won against Oakland over the weekend. Melky Cabrera, meanwhile, is hitting .320/.378/.469 since taking over in center field on June 1. In 1994, a 25-year-old Bernie Williams hit .289/.384/.453 in his fourth major league season, which made that the best year of his career to that point. At age 22, Melky Cabrera may just have arrived as the Yankee center fielder of the future.

In these first two games against the Twins, Derek Jeter is 5 for 10 from the three-hole. Robinson Cano, who was 2 for 22 coming into the series, is 3 for 6 with a homer and a walk while batting ninth. Hideki Matsui has figured out that he's trying to pull the ball too much. Matsui, who had a single and a double in his last 23 at-bats coming into last night's game, had a single and a double in last night's game alone. Finally, Bobby Abreu, who was 4 for 41 coming in to this series, got a pep talk from Roger Clemens prior to Monday night's game (Clemens told him he was the hitter he had feared most when facing the Phillies the last few years, and that he needed to go back to being that guy) and has gone 6 for 7 with a walk and a monster home run in the first two games against the Twins.

It's my belief that Abreu is the key to the Yankees' season. The offense seems to go in which ever direction he goes. Indeed, during last night's game, YES posted a stat showing that Abreu has hit roughly .350 in Yankee wins and roughly .150 in Yankee loses. As the Yankees saw down the stretch last year, when Bobby Abreu's on his game, he's a difference maker. Alex Rodriguez may be having a monster season, but with Jason Giambi out possibly for the season, and Damon making me wonder how Kevin Thompson or Shelley Duncan might do as the everyday DH, Abreu needs to be the Bobby Abreu Clemens remembers.

Here's hoping facing Johan Santana this afternoon doesn't undo all of that good stuff.

Comments (324)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-07-03 23:04:47
1.   yankz
Damn Cliff, late night interview and a lengthy recap all in two hours. Very nice.
2007-07-03 23:07:39
2.   Just fair
Cut and paste rules!
Sweet interview. Sweet 9th by Edwar. Maybe for good luck, when KrazyKyle pitches from now on, he can hold him in his teeth like a toothpick. Ah, two game winning streaks are good for the Yankee Soul.
2007-07-04 04:25:20
3.   Jim Dean
I would absolutely love for the Melkman to claim CF. But what's that make Damon? With two years and 26 million remain, he won't be traded or benched. And we've already seen he won't hit enough to play 1B.

Actually, if they can "afford" to carry Mghjfd, I expect alot of stories this off-season about Damon and the bigger mitt. Let's just hope he doesn't start bouncing throws to second.

2007-07-04 05:41:44
4.   Bama Yankee
2 Good one. Kyle could be like our version of former KC Royal UL Washington...
2007-07-04 05:48:52
5.   Bama Yankee
Hope everyone has a happy and safe Fourth of July (I got it right this time, Jim). Actually, Jim, that was no typo yesterday it was a hidden message. We are all counting on you to save Fourth of July from the aliens... ;-)
2007-07-04 06:53:50
6.   seamus
apparently, I shouldn't watch the games.
2007-07-04 06:54:42
7.   Jim Dean
5 I'll punch 'em in their fat heads and kick 'em in their gonadless groins. And let's see them bitches run from my Glock.
2007-07-04 07:15:42
8.   Jim Dean
5 Hey Bama -

Check out Mr. David Robertson (22 yo RHRP just called up to Tampa from Charleston) originally from Bama-Tuscaloosa (mL rookie this year):

51 IP 71 K 26 H 15 BB 4 ER

Your new favorite perhaps?

2007-07-04 07:32:28
9.   Jim Dean
One last note: How long before Torre and/or Cashman notices the .388 team SLG against LHP (vs. .453 against RHP)? Meanwhile the only guy in the system that could help (the one with 21 HR in 281 AB) has actually played OF and 1b, but they only consider him a DH?

Weird.

2007-07-04 07:40:35
10.   seamus
9 1. obviously they are aware of it.

2. just because he has played OF and 1B doesn't mean he is any good at it.

2007-07-04 07:49:14
11.   Fabian
The Yankee officials are well aware of Shelley Duncan, he's part of somewhat of a running joke at the office. The problem is that a.) he's a very poor defender and b.) there are serious concerns that he's a mistake hitter who lives on mistakes on the outer half of the plate. One of the divides between major and minor league pitchers is the former's willingness to go inside, which is going to give a guy like Shelley some trouble.
2007-07-04 08:01:18
12.   monkeypants
11 What I don't understand--if this is in fact true--is why they would waste a MiLB spot on him if they don't think he can play at the MLB level? Is the best use of the AAA team to stock it with players whom they think will never call up?
2007-07-04 08:25:39
13.   Fabian
It's not that he's NEVER going to be called up, he might make it at some point. In addition, even if he is never going to get called up, it's not as though he is blocking any stud prospects so there's not a problem with holding on to him. Who knows, maybe he gets called up tomorrow and, like his brother, hits way better than expected.
2007-07-04 08:34:46
14.   RIYank
Anybody besides me watching Venus against the Russian goddess?
2007-07-04 08:39:50
15.   monkeypants
13 Right--I guess my point is that 1B and DH have been a colossal sinkhole this year, and he's hitting the hell out of teh ball at AAA, and they have gone through about six players at 1B (including two out of position and one who was DFA'd). If the circumstances haven't yet arisen for his promotion, then one wonders at what point he ever would get called up?
2007-07-04 08:41:41
16.   seamus
14 i am. great match when sharapova is serving. venus just dominating her serves.
2007-07-04 08:44:05
17.   RIYank
16 I don't think Venus looked this good when she was winning championships. She's just amazing. One of her serves hit 126 mph!
2007-07-04 08:44:45
18.   seamus
17 yeah. it makes the match less interesting though to just blow through her serves like that.
2007-07-04 08:45:06
19.   Chyll Will
(Dashes in quickly) Happysafeandfun4thofJuly,
don'tblowoffanyappendages!! 14 (for more than one reason) HA!
(Dashes out quickly)
2007-07-04 08:48:24
20.   RIYank
18 Now Sharapova's serves are also uninteresting, I guess. Breaking at love is demoralizing.
2007-07-04 08:54:52
21.   seamus
20 it was inevitable. had that feel.
2007-07-04 08:58:42
22.   standuptriple
What, no Happy Birthday wish for The Boss? A W against Cytana would be a fitting gift, you think?
2007-07-04 09:24:38
23.   Jim Dean
2007 vs LHP - SLG (OPS)

Matsui - .367 (.694)
Abreu - .298 (.609)
Damon - .351 (.700)

I don't care how bad his defense is when things are that ugly. And when Damon is the DH that's even more disgusting. Meanwhile:

S.Duncan - .606 (.955)

P.s. The hype on ESPN for the hot dog eating contest is hilarious.

2007-07-04 09:30:59
24.   OldYanksFan
YANKEES
Cabrera CF
Cairo 3B
Jeter SS
Rodriguez DH
Matsui LF
Phillips 1B
Cano 2B
Thompson RF
Nieves C
Mussina RHP (4-5, 4.63)

I hate to throw fuel on the JT fire but...
resting Abreu when he has 6 hits in the last 2 days?
And why isn't Miggy batting cleanup?

2007-07-04 09:32:14
25.   OldYanksFan
P.S. If Messina throws a shutout, we have a 50/50 chance of winning.
2007-07-04 09:34:21
26.   Jim Dean
24 See 23

And that lineup shows Brian Cashman's stengths as a GM!

Look at those reserves!

Phillips.
Nieves.
Cairo.
Thompson.

2007-07-04 09:35:51
27.   OldYanksFan
There is a really nice post up at WasWatching. Y'all should take a gander...
2007-07-04 09:37:58
28.   monkeypants
24 Egads and Yikes. Please see 11 12 13 15.

Meanwhile, I stayed home from the office for this?

2007-07-04 09:38:48
29.   monkeypants
26 Now, now.
2007-07-04 09:51:45
30.   yanster
Please Please is there anyone that can explain today's NYTimes game summary from last night? "Rodriguez and Wang Give Yanks Needed Lift" Which Rodriguez? The one that went 0 for 4? The one that left the game early? I'm not faulting A-Rod, he's hurt, but that headline is wrong. Maybe just a mistake - did they mean "Dead War" Ramirez?
2007-07-04 09:52:50
31.   seamus
27 oh, whatever. waswatching will never pass on an opportunity to make arod look selfish. i'm sorry that I even looked.
2007-07-04 09:53:51
32.   seamus
30 I thought that was funny as well. The interesting thing is that how far have we come that Arod gets credit for doing nothing more than playing, from where he was last year getting criticized for hitting his homers in blow out wins.
2007-07-04 09:57:07
33.   ny2
Who other than Jeter hits lefties well?
2007-07-04 09:58:24
34.   monkeypants
31 Yeah, it was yet another bullshit A-Rod jab, so typical of that site. The thing is, A-Rod would get skewered no matter what he decides regarding the ASG. I mean, can you imagine the media if he begged out of the game after receiving the most votes?

Sheesh.

2007-07-04 09:58:43
35.   Jim Dean
And Joey Chestnut with 66 hotdogs and buns! He takes the yellow belt! "The greatest moment in the history of American sports!"

(Too bad that's my sporting excitement for today.)

2007-07-04 10:00:18
36.   monkeypants
33 Phelps has a career .833 OPS v. LHP.
2007-07-04 10:01:37
37.   mehmattski
31 But he then acknowledges later that Jeter and Matsui would do the same thing. And since they're Winners (TM), it can't be that bad that A-Rod's not sitting...
2007-07-04 10:02:49
38.   yankz
35 Holy SHIT that was one of the most amazing races I've ever seen. Heart pounding.

To be honest though, it feels a little like when Mr. T beat Rocky at the beginning of Rocky III. You have to wonder what would've happened under normal circumstances. With the way he was moving, I think a healthy Kobayashi could've hit 70.

2007-07-04 10:04:54
39.   Jim Dean
38 What!? Kobayashi broke his own record AND the world record. That punk was totally playing possum.

And Joey CHestnut brought the belt home!

2007-07-04 10:07:24
40.   RIYank
33 Posada. Oh, you meant somebody playing today?
2007-07-04 10:08:33
41.   Jim Dean
I think I'm going to watch a repeat of the Scripps Spelling Bee. It will be more exciting than today's game.
2007-07-04 10:10:49
42.   mehmattski
41 I don't get it... even with their best lineup the Yankees would have trouble beating Santana. So today either you get to see an unlikely victory against a great pitcher, or a great performance by the best pitcher in baseball. Who cares that it's against your team- watching Santana pitch is enjoyable no matter what.

Or you could, you know, go outside...

2007-07-04 10:11:08
43.   yankz
Oh come on Jeter.
2007-07-04 10:11:32
44.   seamus
can't we bring up duncan to play shortstop? :b
2007-07-04 10:12:57
45.   yankz
39 Doctors said a couple days ago he could only fit two fingers into his mouth.

It seemed too easy for both guys to top 60. My guess is they perform better when competing. Why eat 60 hot dogs when 50 will do?

Big props to Chestnut, it was quite a show, but even he said that he knew this was the year because Kobayashi wasn't 100%.

2007-07-04 10:13:16
46.   thelarmis
jetes just tryin' to make the scrubs more comfortable. you know, make them realize it's okay to make mistakes...
2007-07-04 10:15:14
47.   yankz
46 I think he's testing to see if Moose will unravel.

You're up early...

2007-07-04 10:17:54
48.   Jim Dean
42 Can't watch it on TV - don't get YES. So it's Gameday and Sterling or The Spelling Bee. And sunlight gives me boils.

45 Once again - I let the stats speak for themselves. :)

2007-07-04 10:17:57
49.   bartap74
I'm not sure I understand playing the B lineup (i.e. resting Abreu, Posada; including Nieves, Cairo and Thompson) against the best pitcher in baseball. Shouldn't we save the rests for the weaker pitchers?
2007-07-04 10:17:58
50.   yankz
Jeter better homer next inning.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-07-04 10:17:58
51.   Zack
So that 1 run pretty much ends the game, right?
2007-07-04 10:18:55
52.   thelarmis
i think you're right, yankz. there sure seems to be a lot of errors made when moose pitches. and it certainly does seem to flummox him. rats.
2007-07-04 10:20:43
53.   yankz
48 Either way, it felt like the 1998 Belmont Stakes, except this time the champ never led.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=pIRP4UbrCg8

(That's Real Quiet blowing the Triple Crown...)

2007-07-04 10:22:16
54.   yankz
That is quite the black hole at the end of the lineup.

Perhaps Torre knows they're going to lose, and this is his way of punting.

2007-07-04 10:22:20
55.   RIYank
We're going to get Santana out early. Although the plan I came up with last night is out, because it involved Abreu seeing over 40 pitches in the first five innings.
2007-07-04 10:23:48
56.   rbj
Amazing Hot Dog race. Both broke the world record, but the belt comes back to America, where it belongs -- afterall, we are a nation of overeaters.

And Moose draws the house money lineup.

2007-07-04 10:24:33
57.   yankz
55 I believe it was 48...
2007-07-04 10:27:37
58.   Jim Dean
Cairo = .558 OPS against LHP

And 44 Phillips could play 3B and S.Duncan could play 1B.

You know cause Duncan's SLG of .606 > .558 OPS

2007-07-04 10:28:12
59.   RIYank
57 If the Toaster weren't so balky I'd check. In any case, we need a Plan B.
2007-07-04 10:29:49
60.   Zack
Clearly Chestnut is taking some performance enhancers...you don't see a jump like that without raising some flags :)
2007-07-04 10:31:19
61.   Zack
Sure is great we wasted an out in that inning. Of course, having Cairo there in the first place is a wasted out
2007-07-04 10:33:03
62.   monkeypants
58 See 28.
2007-07-04 10:35:33
63.   Jim Dean
Genizah.
2007-07-04 10:36:19
64.   OldYanksFan
31 The Post was about Lou Gehrig
2007-07-04 10:36:52
65.   Jim Dean
62 See 23.
2007-07-04 10:37:23
66.   RIYank
GODZIRRA!
2007-07-04 10:37:43
67.   mehmattski
Matsui-san!
2007-07-04 10:38:03
68.   Zack
Wow, a run! Hideki!
2007-07-04 10:38:13
69.   thelarmis
honor!
2007-07-04 10:38:29
70.   monkeypants
HA!-deki M-HA!-tsui!
2007-07-04 10:39:47
71.   monkeypants
65 Great minds?
2007-07-04 10:41:27
72.   OldYanksFan
Mr. Nieves needs to be in AA ball... but giving Jorge a scheduled off day is great for him. We take for granted he is an iron man, but if we re-sign him for 2 or 3 more years, sitting 1 day out of 5 will be a good investment.

Mussina and Nieves sittin' in a tree....

2007-07-04 10:43:32
73.   yankz
They're hitting it pretty well...
2007-07-04 10:44:54
74.   Jim Dean
My day will be complete if one of these spelling kids drops an f-bomb.
2007-07-04 10:45:50
75.   Zack
How can ESPN NOT have a full day of baseball on July 4th? Absurd
2007-07-04 10:46:16
76.   yankz
Even if they win this game, I'm still considering this streak a tease. The Twins are our bitch, everyone knows that.
2007-07-04 10:46:53
77.   seamus
64 ah, you should have said so. The first story was on arod.
2007-07-04 10:47:30
78.   OldYanksFan
I wish Michael K. would not get so excited every time an outfielder is obviously going to catch a deep fly. Almost doesn't count in this game.
2007-07-04 10:47:37
79.   RIYank
73 They are. And Moose is pitching well. Adjust the at-bats just a little and it could be 2-0 or 3-0. And 33 pitches so far for Santana.
2007-07-04 10:47:41
80.   monkeypants
72 They have to rest Jorge, no doubt. I do wonder if Mussina really believes that Nieves calls a better game for him? After all, wasn't the story last year how Jorge gave him some super-duper advice in the spring, which was why (supposedly) Mussina had such success in the first half of the year?

Sometimes I think the whole Nieves-Mussina thing is cover story that Torre cooked up to tell reporters.

2007-07-04 10:50:43
81.   yankz
Amazing that Igawa could give up 7 runs in 9 innings tomorrow without affecting his ERA.
2007-07-04 10:52:00
82.   mehmattski
Who is this guy and what has he done with Mike Mussina?
2007-07-04 10:52:04
83.   yankz
That was a beauty from Moose.
2007-07-04 10:52:21
84.   monkeypants
Mussina is a tempermental artist.
2007-07-04 10:54:23
85.   yankz
82 Moose since 5/27: 2-2, 3.35 ERA, 32 K, 11 BB
2007-07-04 10:54:48
86.   yankz
Is this the biggest mismatch in baseball that doesn't involve a pitcher batting?
2007-07-04 10:55:10
87.   thelarmis
the only thing i'm shocked about is that it took nieves 4 pitches to k...
2007-07-04 10:55:12
88.   Jim Dean
Nieves with the .238 OPS on the year. But .333 against lefties!
2007-07-04 10:56:41
89.   iicollies
Oh, leave Igawa alone. Since he's come back, his ERA has only been 4.91!
2007-07-04 10:56:51
90.   monkeypants
Did you see those clips of Bobby Murcer in his playing days? How about the 433ft sign on whatever stadium that was--and that was only in the 70s.
2007-07-04 10:57:05
91.   Jim Dean
85 And he still isn't a league average pitcher.

But he is an above average bitcher!

2007-07-04 10:58:35
92.   monkeypants
86 Funny--I was wondering if they could petition to bat the pitcher and DH Nieves.
2007-07-04 10:59:46
93.   monkeypants
OK, that was off the plate.
2007-07-04 11:01:26
94.   Jim Dean
At least the Yanks didn't sign Cairo for 4 years and 36 million (See Julio Lugo and his .547 OPS).

Whoops, they're ten games back of that team.

2007-07-04 11:01:44
95.   cult of basebaal
OH, BABY! House Money Lineup Day at the stadium!
2007-07-04 11:03:21
96.   Jim Dean
95 You can't act like that in the 4th inning. I thought I missed a single from Nieves.
2007-07-04 11:05:29
97.   Jim Dean
Aniseikonia.
2007-07-04 11:07:52
98.   monkeypants
94 Of course, those same guys play Lugo in the middle IF and get .923 OPS and .964 OPS out of their 1B and DH.

Oop, there I go again.

2007-07-04 11:08:58
99.   yankz
That's probably a run with Damon in the OF.
2007-07-04 11:10:40
100.   rbj
Shoot, missed Godzilla's homerun. But I only had one beer in the fridge, so it was an emergency.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-07-04 11:12:05
101.   thelarmis
rbj - go out and buy more beer!
2007-07-04 11:14:09
102.   Bama Yankee
97 Is that a disease that occurs from wearing a cheap watch?
2007-07-04 11:14:13
103.   yankz
When was the last time Jeter went consecutive days without a hit? Seems like he's on a 100 game hit streak.
2007-07-04 11:14:15
104.   Jim Dean
You know, Melky could still develop enough power and patience to work out okay as a RF.

But I just can't see how the Yanks could take that risk without real power in LF or !1B next year. Problem is: Who could they sign for RF or 1B that would give more than a .450 SLG?

2007-07-04 11:15:06
105.   cult of basebaal
i don't care, torre could be starting the batboy and 8 winos he found pissing on tires at the local Greyhound terminal, i just watched edwar strike out the side in last night's game, my glee is torre proof
2007-07-04 11:15:06
106.   rbj
101 I do have to go back to cleaning the bathroom. . .
2007-07-04 11:16:14
107.   monkeypants
Why is Kay talking about hockey?
2007-07-04 11:16:59
108.   cult of basebaal
Nostril Hockey?
2007-07-04 11:18:03
109.   yankz
I like Murcer.
2007-07-04 11:19:20
110.   tommyl
Hell of an AB from A-Rod here.
2007-07-04 11:20:00
111.   yankz
What an AB.

Also, Bobby, the knee thing is pretty universal. What else is he supposed to do, pick his nose?

2007-07-04 11:21:59
112.   ny2
Jeter's knee seems to be bothering him again .. I think both he and alex should skip the all-star game
2007-07-04 11:22:50
113.   yankz
OK Andy, chance for the lead. Take it, it's yours!
2007-07-04 11:23:02
114.   thelarmis
no DP please AP. keep making santana work.
2007-07-04 11:25:54
115.   monkeypants
Hometown scorer Andy!!!
2007-07-04 11:26:01
116.   yankz
Should be a hit.

Yay Andy!

2007-07-04 11:26:02
117.   thelarmis
yes!
2007-07-04 11:26:39
118.   yankz
115 That was nothing, did you see Jeter's "single" a couple days ago?
2007-07-04 11:27:25
119.   Yankee Fan in Chicago
104 I'd keep an eye on Miranda at Trenton.

His June split at Tampa -- .306/.416/.548 won him promotion and he homered for Trneton the other night.

Given his experience in Cuba already, I could see him helping in the Bronx next season if he finishes strong in Trenton.

He hasn't hit lefties well, but he's pounded righties.

2007-07-04 11:27:26
120.   Bama Yankee
Atta boy, Andy. Roll Tide.
2007-07-04 11:30:08
121.   mehmattski
Grand slam for Nieves here, I can feel it.
2007-07-04 11:30:12
122.   Mattpat11
Johan with 73 pitches through 3.2 IP.
2007-07-04 11:30:31
123.   yankz
121 I must be way behind, KT is still batting.
2007-07-04 11:30:44
124.   monkeypants
...and the bases are loaded for Nieves. Oh well.
2007-07-04 11:30:57
125.   thelarmis
nice job, KT! too bad the little leaguer is up to bat. a hit could seal this...
2007-07-04 11:31:05
126.   JeremyM
Come on, wild pitch or hit-by-pitch.
2007-07-04 11:31:27
127.   mehmattski
Aww, only about 200 feet short...
2007-07-04 11:31:27
128.   yankz
Is Nieves getting that deafening ovation?
2007-07-04 11:31:34
129.   monkeypants
Boy, temptation to PH here.
2007-07-04 11:32:22
130.   Yankee Fan in Chicago
Would it have killed Nieves to take a bleedin strike.
2007-07-04 11:32:37
131.   thelarmis
wow, he hit it out of the infield. BOO.

boston opening the floodgates against tampa.

2007-07-04 11:33:01
132.   Mike T
Nieves swings at the first pitch, flying out. Good job dude. Way to leave 'em loaded.
2007-07-04 11:33:03
133.   iicollies
At least Santana is up to 74 pitches now
2007-07-04 11:33:10
134.   cult of basebaal
at least, with his current pitch count, another decent inning from the top of the lineup and johan should be done ....
2007-07-04 11:34:13
135.   monkeypants
134 I was going to make a smartass comment about the top of the lineup being Melky and Miggy, but Cabrera has been hitting pretty well lately.
2007-07-04 11:34:20
136.   JeremyM
Man, I hate National League baseball sometimes....
Oh, that wasn't the pitcher batting there?!?!
2007-07-04 11:34:56
137.   rbj
My fault -- I stepped in to watch Nieves AB. Heck a strikeout would have at least made Santana throw 2 more pitches. I hate first pitch swinging.
2007-07-04 11:35:39
138.   Jim Dean
Crap - no more Spelling Bee.
2007-07-04 11:37:56
139.   thelarmis
138 yeah, i never would've gotten Serrefine. shit, i don't even think i got it now! i would've gone with "seraphine"
2007-07-04 11:39:16
140.   Mattpat11
71 pitches through five for Mussina
2007-07-04 11:39:20
141.   Jim Dean
Some fun quotes from Big Stein on his birthday:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=philbrick/070703

Now, Mr. Bossman, can you fire Torre and Cashman?

2007-07-04 11:39:39
142.   cult of basebaal
138 something happened to Mfzatgxwicz?
2007-07-04 11:39:52
143.   yankz
They should redo that Jeter "Stealin'" commercial with Moose. Call it "Dealin'."
2007-07-04 11:40:53
144.   Mattpat11
142 Last I heard he was threatening an August return
2007-07-04 11:41:09
145.   yankz
141 Those are so money. Baseball, the Yankees, and NY are really going to miss him when he's gone.
2007-07-04 11:43:58
146.   Jim Dean
144 Never negotiate with terrorists.
2007-07-04 11:44:01
147.   Mike T
Did Melky really just lead off the inning with a bunt? That's what Gameday said.
2007-07-04 11:45:11
148.   yankz
"Closing in on 34"?? He's got more than 11 months to go!
2007-07-04 11:45:35
149.   Mattpat11
Nine pitch inning
2007-07-04 11:46:08
150.   yankz
147 He was trying to get a single, and he almost did. Great play by Punto.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-07-04 11:47:07
151.   thelarmis
142 hilarious.

well, they certainly didn't make johan work that inning...

2007-07-04 11:47:37
152.   cult of basebaal
134 ok, i'll take the blame for that inning, i should never have opened my big mouth
2007-07-04 11:48:32
153.   thelarmis
c'mon moose, don't let the leadoff runner get to you. no runs this inning, bro!!!
2007-07-04 11:49:52
154.   yankz
Since Joe Mauer's batting, I think I'll repost this video to remind everyone why we watch every game:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=JMcxIZiO1qQ

2007-07-04 11:50:42
155.   Mattpat11
Wil Nieves sucks
2007-07-04 11:52:05
156.   cult of basebaal
oh boys, looky what i got here ... from fabian mcnally over at minor yankees blog:

-I mentioned this in the Liveblog, but it needs to be repeated, Phil Hughes' first minor league rehab start will be this Monday. That means he should be back by the last week of July, which means no more Kei Igawa in the rotation.

2007-07-04 11:53:05
157.   yankz
156 Who's Phil Hughes?
2007-07-04 11:53:58
158.   OldYanksFan
Why is the Infield NOT IN!!!!
2007-07-04 11:54:12
159.   Mattpat11
walking him wouldn't be so bad here. sets up the DP
2007-07-04 11:54:26
160.   Max
154 That was really, really cute. Can we get him over to our side to pinch hit for Nieves...please?
2007-07-04 11:55:04
161.   OldYanksFan
Smart hitting there
2007-07-04 11:55:14
162.   thelarmis
156 sweet!

141 speaking of birthday boy quotes. today was also Calvin Coolidge's b-day. i live by a quote of his. the end portion is:

"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent."

i absolutely love that!

fuck, tie game. aaarrrggghhh!!!

2007-07-04 11:55:24
163.   Mattpat11
Dang.
2007-07-04 11:55:39
164.   yankz
160 Did you see him squat and throw? He's already got a better arm.
2007-07-04 11:56:29
165.   monkeypants
158 I'm not a fan of the IF in during the middle innings, especially with the lead.
2007-07-04 11:57:24
166.   yankz
I'm starving, I'm going to go eat 67 hot dogs. Back in 12 minutes.
2007-07-04 11:57:44
167.   thelarmis
alex doesn't have a hit since the collision. he really needs one here...
2007-07-04 11:58:35
168.   williamnyy23
Wil Nieves has to be the worst player in the game. He can't hit and he can't throw. Why exactly is he the BUC. If the Yankees lose this game, you can pretty much pin it on him. So, why he is still here?

165 You HAD to play the IF in, but it's too late to expect Torre to help the team get a win.

2007-07-04 11:58:40
169.   thelarmis
d-rays doing their best to comeback. it's now 7-5.
2007-07-04 11:58:54
170.   OldYanksFan
Neither am I. But could there conceivably be a better time then against a team like the Twins with Santana on the mound, with the lineup we have today?

This situation was the definition of when you bring the infield in.

2007-07-04 11:58:58
171.   Mattpat11
Cashman should be fired if for no other reason than Wil Nieves.
2007-07-04 11:59:34
172.   thelarmis
anybody know where fasano ended up after toronto dfa'ed him?
2007-07-04 12:03:40
173.   JL25and3
168 It's probably one of the various skills that are usually cited for BUC's that appear to have none. My favorite is, "He frames the ball well."
2007-07-04 12:04:17
174.   monkeypants
170 I disagree. Mussina is always two steps from a meltdown, so I don't want to compromise the D at all. I would rather give up the tie than chance the big inning. Also, I'd play for the tie at home.
2007-07-04 12:04:36
175.   tommyl
We want Edwar
2007-07-04 12:05:26
176.   Mattpat11
168 He can't hit or throw and he has trouble catching. I've never seen a catcher jumping up to corral a ball so much.
2007-07-04 12:05:38
177.   monkeypants
168 See 170.
2007-07-04 12:06:31
178.   williamnyy23
177 That might make sense ...until factoring the relative quality of both bullpens. Playing for the tie is putting the game in the hands of an awful bullpen.
2007-07-04 12:07:25
179.   Mattpat11
Ballgame.
2007-07-04 12:07:25
180.   thelarmis
175 he won't go today. torre was pleased but said he needs to see him more before he puts edwar in a tight game...
2007-07-04 12:07:31
181.   cult of basebaal
162 i didn't catch the show last night thelarmis, i ended talking about my burningman project with a couple of friends and desperately trying to avoid the advances of this cute, but horribly drunk girl, who had this travelocity gnome like talking gnome recorder, with which she kept recording herself saying "i looooove you" and then shoving it to my ear
2007-07-04 12:08:28
182.   Mattpat11
THIS TEAM SUCKS
2007-07-04 12:08:33
183.   thelarmis
and that's it. there goes the ballgame. moose will give up the lead. torre will make 3-4 pitching changes and the minn. pen will shut us down and that'll be that...
2007-07-04 12:09:04
184.   monkeypants
177 Hmmm...maybe I should amend my evaluation.
2007-07-04 12:10:28
185.   yankz
Oh my god, that Williams/Sharapova game was probably the best I've ever esen.
2007-07-04 12:10:57
186.   williamnyy23
And now you see how not cutting off the run comes back to haunt you. As O'Neill is explaining, it is a lot difficult to pitch when you need to be perfect. Now, Moose is gone, the bullpen is in and Santanna is rolling. Joe's incompetence combined with Nieves futility will be the recipe for another loss...something this team can no longer afford. Torre's dismissal and Nieves release should be no brainer changes on a team fighting for its playoff life...instead, the team stands pat and everyone wonders why we are stuck in neutral.
2007-07-04 12:11:43
187.   Mattpat11
If Wil Nieves isn't DFA immediately after this game, Cashman should be fired on the spot. He broke the bank on fucking Kei Igawa but couldn't find a BUC that can hit, catch or throw. He's a fucking handicap on the team in one of the most massive ways I've ever seen. Its embarrassing.
2007-07-04 12:12:17
188.   thelarmis
moose can be infuriating. this season is so frustrating...

181 sounds like an interesting nite, cult! yeah, too much alcohol can really make hot girls so unattractive sometimes. don't worry, i'm sure my buddy will be playing there more and he'll email me the info. i'm gonna see him this coming weekend as we'll both be visiting home in NY...

2007-07-04 12:12:32
189.   Yankees Brasil
The game was lost on that bases loaded Nieves AB.. theuy should have knocked Santana out of the game..
2007-07-04 12:12:45
190.   monkeypants
I really like listening to Bobby Murcer, et al, talk about the Old Stadium and the early remodelled years. But I have to say, they really don't know as much as you would expect. The dimension now (ex. 314 on the RF line) were not teh dimensions in 1985, let alone 1976; the area behind the permanent wall in LF (with the retired numbers) was not all in play--the LF bleachers used to extend to that point--instead, the moved homeplate forward, and they extended the lower deck accordingly, etc.
2007-07-04 12:13:25
191.   cult of basebaal
speaking of our buc dead horse, i've been trying to think of who is out there and might be cheaply available (yes, i know, almost anyone would be better than nieves, but i'm trying to think of someone who might actually be an asset)

i was thinking about larue over with KC, he was a starter for CIN only 2 years ago ... he hasn't hit much in his buc role, and the Royales don't seem to truly trust buck as a fulltime starter, so he might be more expensive than would be practical

texas might be willing to let melhuse go for cheap, i can't remember if he's supposed to have much of a glove, or not

2007-07-04 12:13:31
192.   Max
Moose drops more precipitously than Edwar's changeup. Talk about a flame-out.

Not defending Torre at all, but I mean, what can a manager do there? Even Krazy Kyle doesn't melt down that fast. He prefers the slow-drip torture method in order to piss off tthe maximum number of Yankee fans. But at least he gives you time to apply the hook.

2007-07-04 12:14:33
193.   monkeypants
186 Actually, I see how not cutting off that run is irrelevant, since they would now be down by a run anyway (assuming the batter last inning didn't ground one through for a basehit to tie the game).

If we're going to play hindsight, the best thing would have been to pull Moose after the sixth.

2007-07-04 12:15:31
194.   thelarmis
instead of igawa, perhaps we could've found a BUC in japan. johjima has been pretty damn excellent in seattle. there's got to be more...

this game is mostly on nieves.

2007-07-04 12:15:41
195.   monkeypants
191 Wasn't Sal Fasano just DFA'd? He's awful, and probably still better than Nieves.
2007-07-04 12:16:05
196.   yankz
Via LoHud: "Santana has not beaten the Yankees since July 27, 2005."

WOW. I had no idea.

2007-07-04 12:17:01
197.   Mattpat11
194 Maybe we could have traded one of our hall of famers for a back up catcher. Besides breaking the bank on Igawa, Cashman is quite adept at trading great players for pocket lint.
2007-07-04 12:17:05
198.   thelarmis
191 i don't think melhuse ever got to play enough in oakland to know much of anything about him. at this point though, i'd take anybody. hell, todd pratt would be better. maybe barry foote...
2007-07-04 12:17:08
199.   williamnyy23
192 I don't think you can kill Moose. Jeter's error caused the first run and the second resulted from Nieves not being able to throw (Bartlett should have been an easy out) and Torre falling asleep by keeping the IF back. He made a couple of bad pitches, but with no margin for error, that is going to happen.

The Yankees as an organization are not putting the team in a good position to win. In this game, fielding an awful lineup like this one (especially Nieves complete lack of skills) and having a manager who doesn't anticipate the flow of the game has put all the onus on the handful of star players. With enough organizational support, Mussina's performance would have been more than enough today.

2007-07-04 12:17:27
200.   Mattpat11
191 He HAS to be better
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-07-04 12:17:57
201.   cult of basebaal
if vizcaino is gonna keep coming in and getting people out, i won't be able to keep calling him The Deuce ... 'course, with his shitty walk rate, i doubt i'm going to retire the nickname for any length of time ...
2007-07-04 12:18:15
202.   Jim Dean
Okay, since this game sucks, I've been doing a bit of research:

RF next year -

1) Abreu at 16 million
Pro: Cheaper than other free agent options and gives the Yanks one more year to see if Melky can develop enough power to be a RF.
Con: .722 OPS in first half of 2007 and an average fielder who often looks awful.

2) Ichiro at 60 to 70 million.
Pro: Contact hitter and speedster with plus defense.
Con: Old (34 yo), expensive, and won't SLG enough for a team that needs it. Another lefty bat.

3) Fuckudome at 40 to 60 million.
Pro: Comes cheaper and younger (31 yo) than other FA and without a posting fee.
Con: If he loses power like Godzilla (numbers in Japan are very similar), another anemic OF. Another lefty bat.
???: Defense unknown.

4) Andruw Jones at 1 year/15 million?
Pro: Might be able to snag him cheap if his year still looks terrible in November. Righty bat.
Con: Otherwise will be very pricey.

I'm saying Abreu or Jones (if he's cheap). Of course, trading some of that pitching for a Matt Kemp would be nice.

2007-07-04 12:18:21
203.   OldYanksFan
186 Hey! I don't like you calling Monkeypants incompetant.
2007-07-04 12:18:28
204.   yankz
Vizcaino since 5/28: 2-0, 1.93...but 12K vs 11 BB.
2007-07-04 12:18:34
205.   williamnyy23
193 That's the fallacy of the predetermined outcome. If the Yankees cut off the run, Moose has a margin for error and probably pitches alot differently. The bottom line is that with Santana and the Twins bullpen, playing for a tie was a recipe for disaster. Joe fell into the trap and now the Yankees are staring at another loss.
2007-07-04 12:18:35
206.   thelarmis
197 as much as we liked igawa the person in spring training, it still reeks of trying to match boston's dice-k splash and that is just ridiculous. we never needed quest...
2007-07-04 12:18:40
207.   yankz
I love Mo.
2007-07-04 12:19:48
208.   yankz
202 Someone, somewhere will give Andruw a multi-year deal.
2007-07-04 12:19:51
209.   thelarmis
202 i'd take abreu next year over andruw.
2007-07-04 12:20:50
210.   monkeypants
203 ???
2007-07-04 12:20:52
211.   thelarmis
damn, jimmy rollins has 15 HR's & SB's already...
2007-07-04 12:21:38
212.   monkeypants
Hey, Nieves didn't drop that little pop fly!
2007-07-04 12:21:41
213.   yankz
I think Nieves forgot how many outs there were.
2007-07-04 12:23:36
214.   yankz
Moose with Nieves catching: .668 OPS against
With Posada: 1.052 (!) OPS against
2007-07-04 12:24:47
215.   Max
205 And how is your argument not similarly fallacious? A veteran like Mussina can't pitch in a tie game, whereas with a one-run lead, he can pitch looser and not give up a double and a home run to the first two batters of the seventh?

Give me a break. The Torre bashing is all too warranted these days, but this loss (if the margin holds up) is not on the manager. It's on a pitcher that doesn't have it for more than six innings/80 pitches, and a GM that can't find a BUC that hits or plays like a major leaguer.

2007-07-04 12:24:50
216.   Jim Dean
208 209 Problem is, if Boras isn't getting the multiyear offers he likes he might be willing to consider a well-priced one year deal.

And if the Yanks are going to pay Abreu 16 million, they could give that same one year deal to Andruw, esp. cause he'd bring some balance back to the lineup and better defense.

Problem is: There's probably a date that Bobby's option needs to get picked up by, and Boras is never in a rush.

2007-07-04 12:24:58
217.   Mattpat11
Carlos Pena. Another man our GM threw out.
2007-07-04 12:25:11
218.   cult of basebaal
202 as long as you don't think we're getting matt kemp ... dodgers don't need any of our pitching (that we're willing to give up) and they're not trading kemp in a fair value deal, anyway)

208 if andruuw keeps hitting this badly, it might be in his best interest in only pursuing a 1 year deal then hoping he could put up big numbers and go back on the market for a big money deal ...

2007-07-04 12:26:02
219.   OldYanksFan
I am not sure allowing a batter to hit a 320 ft flyball is a meltdown. A 370 ft flyball to the alley in LF is an easy out. Is that a melt down?

Moose pitched well. The infield should have been in and stadiums should not allow fields to have distances less then 330 ft.

Some of the really old stadiums were rectanglar tracts and 260' down the lines, and like 500 in CF. We cherish the HR record, but over 16 years, your home park has a big effect on things.

And why did the Giants, home of Barry Bonds, create such a huge RF? With a really high wall to boot. I think it's 420 in one spot.

2007-07-04 12:27:59
220.   williamnyy23
215 No one said he can't pitch in a tie game, but I think it's common sense that a pitcher like Mussina benefits from having a lead. I also think it's common sense that the Yankees shouldn't relish a battle of the bullpens, which was likely to lead from playing for a tie.

Mussina pitched well today. Only Torre decides that he can't throw more than 80 pitches. As for Nieves, I agree that he is the #1 culprit, but Torre is right behind him in line.

2007-07-04 12:28:49
221.   williamnyy23
216 Why do you assume Jones would sign a 1-year deal?
2007-07-04 12:28:54
222.   Mattpat11
AND FARNSWORTH IS WARMING
2007-07-04 12:29:22
223.   thelarmis
ooh, i would've liked to see jopo batting in the 4th. rewind! day off be damned!
2007-07-04 12:29:32
224.   cult of basebaal
is The Whacker warming up for the 8th?
2007-07-04 12:29:35
225.   monkeypants
Now, PH Posada here, with two outs and no one on, down by two, seems pretty silly.
2007-07-04 12:30:01
226.   cult of basebaal
222 there's the answer ...
2007-07-04 12:30:26
227.   Jim Dean
218 Yeah - Kemp is a dream. But a new GM might be willing to trade a few of the fifteen C pitching prospects (Marquez, White, Smith, Rasner, Karstens) for a young OF, especially since Joba and Kennedy will be ready next year with Wang and Hughes already in the rotation with crappy Moose, Igawa, and Pettitte.
2007-07-04 12:30:27
228.   thelarmis
do we get to face nesheck and nathan in the 8th/9th? oh, the joy never ends...
2007-07-04 12:31:31
229.   monkeypants
219 Whoah--there's a whole lot going on in that post.
2007-07-04 12:33:15
230.   williamnyy23
225 Exactly! Posada could have been used to hit for Cairo, Phillips, Thomson, etc. Now he is slotted in the 9th spot and not guaranteed to come up! Again, this is an example of a manager not putting his team in the best situation to win.

Also, while we're at it, when you have such a weak lineup, why in god's name would you decide to bat CAIRO in the 2-hole? So he could bat more than Jeter or Arod? Or, maybe to ensure the bases are clear when they get up? If you must play your B-team against the best pitcher in baseball, fine, but why not stack your best hitters together?

Maybe this team isn't good enough to win anyway, but as long as Torre is at the helm, the task will only be all the more difficult.

2007-07-04 12:33:42
231.   Jim Dean
221 If his numbers stay terrible Boras may choose to have him re-establish his true value if the Soriano prices aren't being offered. One 16 million year might provide that incentive.
2007-07-04 12:34:10
232.   OldYanksFan
210 Is was a joke in poor taste, In 186 Willy said " Joe's incompetence combined .."
for playing the infield back. You wanted it back to. I thought in was right.

We differ in opinions. Big deal. Often, intelligent, knowledgeable people disagree on an issue. I don't think that makes either incompetant.

2007-07-04 12:35:35
233.   williamnyy23
232 Who is Willy? Randolph?
2007-07-04 12:36:16
234.   thelarmis
nothin like letting that leadoff man on. it'll be 7-2 in no time...
2007-07-04 12:36:18
235.   Jim Dean
225 Duh - catcher batting, replace with catcher. Yeesh.
2007-07-04 12:36:48
236.   monkeypants
220 I guess my point is that pulling in the infield is a high risk-high reward tactic, and at best a judgement call at that point in the game. It was certainly not a no brainer.

We tend to assume (invoking your fallacy of the determined outcome) that if the IF was in, the subsequent grounderout would not have resulted in a run. But if a cue shot or a blooper fell in for a hit, the run still would have scored, Moose would have faced greater pressure anyway, and he still would be in the sixth inning.

2007-07-04 12:38:12
237.   monkeypants
232 I get it--I'm a little slow today.
2007-07-04 12:38:49
238.   tommyl
That was the luckiest inning ever by Kyle. A single, a laser and a foul ball into the upper deck.
2007-07-04 12:39:24
239.   OldYanksFan
202 NOBODY is giving Abreu $16m next year, unless he has an amazing 2nd half and posts well above average numbers.

If he likes being a Yankee, and posts an .800+/- OPS, he might be had for $12-13m.

Ichiro looks in great shape. Have you seen him run? He still flys. He has a body type that ages well. I don't know what he will cost, but in terms of speed, defense and balance, he is the type of guy the Yankees need to start targeting.

2007-07-04 12:39:51
240.   cult of basebaal
238 Who says Krazy can't go 1-2-3, baby!
2007-07-04 12:40:09
241.   williamnyy23
236 I guess I think it's a no brainer because I strongly believed the Yankees best chance to win this game was to avoid having to score more runs off Santana and the bullpen.

Great job by Farns...scoreless inning with only 3 balls hit very hard.

2007-07-04 12:40:20
242.   monkeypants
235 I hope you're being sarcastic (I'm having trouble picjing up humour today). I would tend not to use my best hitter off the bench in a low leverage situation (2 outs, no one on). In that case, I would have grit my teeth and sent Nieves up there.

Now, the fourth inning with the bases juiced--that's another story.

2007-07-04 12:40:48
243.   thelarmis
bosux won...
2007-07-04 12:43:13
244.   tommyl
I wish we had Neshek. How can you not love a guy who still waits outside hotels to get autographs? That's hilarious.

Oh, and he's an actual setup guy.

2007-07-04 12:43:59
245.   monkeypants
239 Ichiro only makes sense if they target him as the CF, because .820 OPS (career) is probably not going to cut it in RF, especially with the expected production in the rest of the OF.
2007-07-04 12:45:09
246.   Jim Dean
239 But Abreu WILL get a multiyear deal if the Yanks don't pick up his option. And that WILL be more than 16 million.

And Ichiro is fine as a CF. But he won't SLG .450 if his AVG drops below .350. That's a problem for an already anemic OF group of Matsui, Damon, and Matsui.

2007-07-04 12:45:47
247.   OldYanksFan
True! Do we have a great bench today of what!
2007-07-04 12:45:51
248.   cult of basebaal
hmmm ... damon pinch hit ...this ought to get interesting defensively in the 9th

phillips to 3rd? damon to 1st?

2007-07-04 12:45:54
249.   tommyl
Now who plays 3rd?
2007-07-04 12:46:01
250.   OldYanksFan
OR what...
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2007-07-04 12:46:06
251.   Jim Dean
So now Torre's going to put Phillips at 3b? Or lose the DH?

Great roster Cashman!

2007-07-04 12:46:44
252.   Mattpat11
251 No time to build a bench. Need to sign Japanese pitcher. Any Japanese pitcher.
2007-07-04 12:46:47
253.   williamnyy23
246 Do you honestly think that if Abrue doesn't completely turn around his 2007 season another team would come close to $16 per in a long term deal? Instead, I think a more likely scenario would be the Yanks pick up the option and deal Abreu for prospects, just as they did with Sheffield.
2007-07-04 12:47:41
254.   RIYank
Phillips will play 3rd and Damon 1st?

Yes.

2007-07-04 12:49:25
255.   cult of basebaal
i miss bubba crosby ... if only for his name and his high socks ... i'm gonna start calling bruney, bubba.

besides, he looks like he could be a Bubba in his gameday picture ...

Bubba Bruney, it has a nice ring

2007-07-04 12:49:49
256.   monkeypants
Hey, Andy Phillips is playing 3B now. So that means Shelley Duncan could be called up for a tryout at 1B...

The thread comes full circle!

2007-07-04 12:50:58
257.   Mattpat11
255 Don't say that name. He could return. Like a horror movie villain
2007-07-04 12:51:38
258.   Jim Dean
253 No, but I bet he can get 36 million for three years, espcially since he'll get his OPS above .850 by the end of the year. I can't see the trade you speak of, though.
2007-07-04 12:51:39
259.   williamnyy23
Here's something that occurred to me earlier in the game...has there ever been a bigger mismath in the history of MLB than Nieves versus Santana? I'm sure there must have been, but my complete disdain for Nieves makes me think otherwise.
2007-07-04 12:52:30
260.   RIYank
253 He won't get $16M/year, but he'll get a long term deal. It may be worth paying him $16M to get him for one year instead of losing him. Offering him, say, $10M for one year isn't going to get it done.
2007-07-04 12:53:02
261.   cult of basebaal
257 does it frighten you when i say the name ... TANYON "Keyser" STURTZE!!!
2007-07-04 12:53:21
262.   Jim Dean
Bring in Edwar for three more Ks!
2007-07-04 12:53:38
263.   williamnyy23
At what point do the Yankees look toward names like Ramirez and Britton for the bullpen. I think it's clear that this mix is not going to work. I've never seen so much inaction by the front office of a team with so many obvious holes.
2007-07-04 12:54:40
264.   Mattpat11
261 Not nearly as much as a potential return of Bubba Crosby.
2007-07-04 12:55:56
265.   OldYanksFan
246 You think if Abreu continue to slump and posts a sub .750 OPS, someone will give him 3 years at $16m? Maybe. He's certainly not worth that (as Phily knows) but the FA market is nuts, and there is a lot of desperation buying these days.

245 To talk only about OPS, and not what outatanding D, a great arm, and excellent speeds brings is myoptic (no insult meant).

Were you here for the Best Catcher discussion of Piazza vs. IRod? Jay Jaffe posted that IRod has 350 winshares more. 350! Defense is an important factor in a players value.. but many of us are wowed by offense (OPS).

I mean Giambi is great at the plate, but how much is he devalued because of his D and liability on the bases?

2007-07-04 12:56:04
266.   williamnyy23
Does O'Neill watch these games? Bruney doesn't fall behind and walk people?
2007-07-04 12:56:04
267.   cult of basebaal
263 i suppose you could blame the FO, except both of those guys have been brought up by the FO, but then not given meaningful work by Joey Joe Joe Get-a-Clue
2007-07-04 12:56:40
268.   Jim Dean
263 "A team that sucks has to earn the trades."

Forget about why they suck in the first place though.

2007-07-04 12:57:05
269.   Mattpat11
Ohforchristsakes
2007-07-04 12:58:25
270.   RIYank
269 Now we can relax.
2007-07-04 12:58:37
271.   JeremyM
268 Yeah, what was that? Your job is to make the team better. I'm a little confused by Cashman's performance this season.
2007-07-04 12:59:10
272.   Max
Luis Rodriguez. Unbelievable.
2007-07-04 13:00:26
273.   Jim Dean
265 "To talk only about OPS, and not what outatanding D, a great arm, and excellent speeds brings is myoptic"

Preventing runs means little if they can't score runs. And an OF with no player that can slug .450 is going to have a very hard time scoring runs to be any more than a .500 team.

2007-07-04 13:00:50
274.   williamnyy23
268 That was a comment that perplexed me. Personally, I think Cashman has given up on this season and, perhaps, is looking at it as a chance to do one final purge and rebuild in his own image and likeness. Dumping Nieves and reshuffling the bullpen seem to be such obvious moves...what else would explain the inaction?
2007-07-04 13:02:07
275.   fansince77
with today's line up I feel that Joe was conceding the victory- 6-2 sounds about right. Did anyone expect much more?
2007-07-04 13:02:20
276.   williamnyy23
273 Matsui is a much better bet to slug .450 than Abreu at this point. I too like power in the OF, but it isn't coming from Abreu anymore.
2007-07-04 13:02:25
277.   Mattpat11
274 Stubborness.

If he gets rid of the horrific Farnsworth, for example, he has to admit that he was wrong on that move from the beginning.

2007-07-04 13:03:34
278.   williamnyy23
275 At 2-1 in the 6th, I expected Torre to manage hard for what would have been a huge win. Now, the Yanks need to rely on Igawa to avoid a split. Talk about having a complete lack of foresight!
2007-07-04 13:04:29
279.   cult of basebaal
265 interesting discussion on that very comparison over at BBTF yesterday

http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/newsstand/discussion/the_soul_of_baseball_posnanski22/

BP's perspective on the comparison is that two are roughly equal overall, with the defensive advantage of I-Rod washing out the Offensive advantage of Piazza

2007-07-04 13:05:41
280.   thelarmis
well, i was close - i thought it would end 7-2...
2007-07-04 13:06:54
281.   monkeypants
265 I-Rod/Piazza comparison is not really appropriate here, though. As Jay Jaffe pointed out, Piazza has been a historically bad C, and I-Rod a historically good defense C.

Ichiro won't hit his position in RF, and especially not at age 37, and his defense will be wasted in RF in Yankee Stadium. As a CF, fine, but he's not going to be worth a fat multi-year contract as a RF.

2007-07-04 13:07:18
282.   Mattpat11
If Nieves isn't already released, I'd fire Cashman. I'm serious.
2007-07-04 13:08:12
283.   cult of basebaal
well, that was fun, in a cold war, behind-the-iron-curtain-miasma-of-grey-concrete-apathy kind of way ... so, i'm off to get drunk and float in a pool, enjoy the 4th everyone ...
2007-07-04 13:08:53
284.   williamnyy23
281 If the Yankees did sign Ichiro, why would he not be the CF? Who would be better than he?
2007-07-04 13:12:37
285.   monkeypants
268 274 As I read the comment, it basically made sense to me. It's not worth trading away a bunch of prospects to help a team that is performing so poorly--it's just a poor use of resources. If the team were in contention, then it would be worth making some big moves (like signing Clemens when they were only about three games out).

268 Now, JD's question about how the team got to this point this season is valid.

271 The job of the GM is not always to make a team better that year, but to balance the present with the future.

2007-07-04 13:14:33
286.   williamnyy23
285 All valid points, except that doesn't explain why Nieves remains on the roster, the team has no 1B and the bullpen continues to blow games. The Yankees could probably add a guy like Hatteberg, Chris Britton and any living catcher over night for little and immediately improve the team.
2007-07-04 13:15:49
287.   monkeypants
284 I agree with you, but then what to do with Damon? If I ruled the universe, Damon woul dride the pine. But, as many have pointed out, there are 26 million reasons why he'll start--either at DH or 1B. But he won't hit nearly well enough for those positions (nor if he played RF), so the team would just be swapping one problem position for another.

And if that's the case, I would rather they saved the money they would spend on Ichiro, stick Melky in CF, and and throw as much as they can at A-Rod or a real 1B who can actually hit.

2007-07-04 13:18:33
288.   monkeypants
286 I agree entirely, though see 287. Britton up means someone has to go. In a rational world that would be Meyers or Farnswhacker or Villone. There is no defense for Villone, but they have relatively a lot of $$$ bound up with the other two clowns.
2007-07-04 13:20:20
289.   Jim Dean
284 Oh, sure, he'd be the best CF. But who plays RF?

See while Melky could emerge as an average CF, they still need to score runs.

285 I'm not going to re-live the Cashman argument (for once). But suffice it to say, this team was very poorly constructed from the off-season. And he's done nothing to improve it even as he has plenty of second class prospects to do so.

2007-07-04 13:23:26
290.   Jim Dean
287 They need A-Rod AND a 1B that can hit.

288 Myers only makes 1.5 million.

2007-07-04 13:24:28
291.   OldYanksFan
"Preventing runs means little if they can't score runs"

Jim... its about run differential.
run saved = run scored.

I guess you don't believe games are won by 'pitching and defense'? Especially in the PS?

2007-07-04 13:29:17
292.   yankz
216 There's no way. What if Andruw tanks again next year?
2007-07-04 13:29:55
293.   OldYanksFan
281 Of course. Why wouldn't he be in CF? Melky is fine in LF... covers a lot of ground. If we can't get a power 1Bman, I'd try Mats and 1B. He was never great in the OF, but since the injury, it is obvious he is playing scared.

A lot depends on resigning ARod. If he leaves, we HAVE to get power at one OF position and 1B.

2007-07-04 13:32:47
294.   monkeypants
293 Melky is fine in LF, except that he won't hit the position (Matsui at this stage in his career would be at best an average 1B, if he can make the transition). So once again, you'd swap one problem for another.
2007-07-04 13:34:24
295.   monkeypants
293 294 In fact, if I read your suggestion correctly, you would have Ichiro in CF, Melky in LF, and Damon in RF, with Matsui at 1B. Hoo boy, that's sacrificing a good bit of offense at two (maybe three) slugging positions.
2007-07-04 13:37:41
296.   Jim Dean
"run saved = run scored"

Uh, no.

Today, for example. Or the terrible record in 1 and 2 runs games.

Or the Oakland A's - the third fewest runs allowed and yet they're barely a .500 team (one that just took 2 of 3 from the Yanks).

You could have a team of Ichiros, Ozzie Smiths, and Pudges with 12 Johan Santanas and it won't mean thing if you don't score runs.

2007-07-04 14:02:26
297.   Rich
Keep Melky in CF and trade Matsui.
2007-07-04 14:59:00
298.   Vandelay Industries
266

Umm. Do you watch? Bruney does exactly that. 24BB in 34IP? Umm, I think that's a tad high. I had him in my fantasy league while he was with Arizona, where he fell off a cliff after looking good for a short while.

Why the hell would Joe sit Abreu just as he gets hot with the All-Star break coming up? Makes no sense, but that's Joe. No matter that the team is .800 in games that Abreu hits well. Sit him anyway right? He does play such a demanding position. Ugh!

Britton needs to get a shot and quick. If Edwar can pitch well, we could go Britton, Ramirez, MO. Proctor and Farny are cooked. When will it become clear to Joe that no one in that bullpen is worth a shit other than Mo, an occasional Proctor, and Myers against righties?

2007-07-04 15:37:09
299.   Mattpat11
Is Nieves gone yet?
2007-07-04 16:00:26
300.   Vandelay Industries
I still say we should make a run at Mark T. We will be looking for a full time 1B next year anyway, and if we cannot sign him at years end, then so be it. But this team is capable of getting back into this. We could have won today but for Joe removing Jorge and Bobby in the same game. Our relief pitching isnt going to get any better unless Joe and Cash are willing to give Britton and others a chance. Which I don't believe they will, so bashing our oppenents is the only option, making our bullpen irrelevant. Hopefully Mo and Ramirez (God willing) can keep us in the game.
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2007-07-04 17:03:06
301.   Rich
If, as Cashman said, Hughes, Joba, Tabata, Horne, Kennedy, and Betances are untouchable, it's pretty tough to see a way to get Texeira.

I wouldn't trade Hughes for Joba for almost anyone.

2007-07-04 18:09:34
302.   yankz
You know, for the most part, these Yankee fans are pretty smart, which was a nice surprise:

http://tinyurl.com/yonges

2007-07-04 19:14:40
303.   bob34957
299 That's an easy issue to defend. Totally obvious. 282 It is easy to criticize the present and attempts to make the future better when it is an unknown!
2007-07-04 19:18:48
304.   bob34957
300 I can't believe the hype over one inning of work and partial minor league experience. The organization is wishful when those expectations are present..
2007-07-04 19:21:17
305.   Mattpat11
303 I don't see how putting Wil Nieves on a major league team makes the present or future better.
2007-07-04 19:25:03
306.   markp
The run prevented = run scored statement is true, but the difference in defense for most MLB corner OFs (for instance) has very little to do with preventing runs. Obviously, pitchers have a much greater impact than all of the IF & OF combined, and corner OFs have much less to do with preventing runs than middle IFs.
That's why the good hitters who aren't good enough to play 2B or catch but can catch a fly ball and throw well enough to hit the cut-off man end up as corner OF. The guys who can't catch fly balls or throw at all, but can hit end up at 1B or DH.
2007-07-04 19:33:31
307.   monkeypants
306 I was also under the impression that the difference between the best and worst offensive players at a given position is generally greater than teh difference between the best and worst defenders. Of course, there are probably exceptions to this.
2007-07-04 19:58:54
308.   williamnyy23
298 Umm. Do you read :) I was being sarcastic because O'Neill was complementing Bruney for going after hitters and not walking people.
2007-07-04 21:50:11
309.   yankz
Good article on Edwarrior:

http://tinyurl.com/yps3ls

2007-07-05 02:05:42
310.   Jim Dean
306 "run prevented = run scored"

I disagree heavily with that characterization for one simple reason: They're on opposite sides of the ledger.

Juan Pierre, no matter how well he plays CF, doesn't score runs if he doesn't get on base.

Julio Lugo may be the second coming of the Wizard, but if he doesn't accumulate hits and walks, he's of little help at scoring runs.

Wil Nieves, even if he was the Johnny Bench clone of defense, would still have to score runs to help the team win.

The point: Defense is half of the game but having better gloves doesn't mean, or equal, scoring more runs. It might increase the likelihood of winning, but that's only if the team is already scoring enough runs to do so.

(P.s. 306 - I'm with you on the rest of the post. The Yankees have their best hitters at 3B, C, and SS. Since they don't currently have above average hitters at any other position, their offensive advantage is rendered moot and they become an average team. That's exactly what we're seeing.)

2007-07-05 06:06:37
311.   monkeypants
[310} Along similar lines, and following up on 307, it seems to me that the difference between playing defense in the minor leagues v. MLB is smaller than the difference between hitting at different levels. In other words, you use the same basic skills to play, say, RF no matter what level you play at: the fields are about the same size, you use the same glove, you get to the same balls while the same gappers fall in, etc. This does not mean that there is no development defensively: minor league infielders often make a lot of errors, and over time a player may learn to position themselves better, get better jumps, master certain maneuvers (like scooping the ball at 1B) through repetition, and so forth. Players will often be moved around the diamond to positions that better suit their skills. But rarely--it seems to me--are players "exposed" defensively as they climb the ladder in MiLB. It's not like a player is a CF for his whole MiLB career, then gets to AAA and suddenly can't catch the ball anymore because the batted balls are more difficult.

But you do see batters exposed all the time as they progress. A guy may slug the hell out of the ball in the low minors, but as he progresses in levels the pitchers become much more difficult to hit and his margin for error dwindles. That big swing which he got away with in HS or A makes him powerless at AAA. This is why you often see a players hitting numbers decline at least somewhat as he advances levels; it's predictable enough that they have developed offensive equivalency formulas to translate minor league stats into major league stats (that is, predict the level of decline with the last change in level).

Likewise, the same sort of progression is seen with pitchers: a junkballer with poor command may fool batters consistently in the low minors, but as he advances in levels, the hitters become more selective (and more skilled at hitting a variety of pitches).

So, where am I going with this? I suspect that by the time the vast majority of players reach MLB, they are already playing the position that suits them the best (though with age they may slow down and switch to a less challenging position). Most of the players at that position are already more or less competent--some are better defensively, but the worst have already (probably) been shifted to a more suitable position (that's why a Josh Phelps comes up already as a DH/1B, not a CF or 2B). Overal, by the time they reach MLB, the difference betwen the best and worst player at a given position is (usually) not that huge. But all one needs to do is skim the various rosters to see that relative offensive production at a given position can vary wildly, without even considering players out of position due to injury.

2007-07-05 06:47:49
312.   drodd1039
if anyone is interested, I found this page that has up to date Yankees news feeds

http://www.dcdeal.com/redsox

2007-07-05 06:55:12
313.   JL25and3
311 By and large, I'd agree with you. Still, it's not all that uncommon for a player to be moved a notch on the defensive spectrum after reaching the majors. In particular, I think organizations tend to keep shortstops and catchers in place as long as possible. The tolerance at those most important positions in the minors is probably greater, because you want to give someone every chance to develop there. Off the top of my head, examples include Bobby Murcer, Craig Biggio, and BJs Upton and Surhoff.

With the catchers it may be a matter of saving their bodies rather than defensive shortcomings. Still, their defense certainly didn't demand that they stay put.

2007-07-05 07:36:27
314.   Shaun P
311 313 I tend to agree too. To support your theory on catchers, JL, note that Carlos Delgado, Mike Sweeney, (and our old friends) Josh Phelps and Craig Wilson (among many others) all came to the bigs as catchers.
2007-07-05 07:48:11
315.   monkeypants
314 It is interesting to think more about catchers (remember Posada was a 2B in low-A?), since it is so highly specialized defensively.
2007-07-05 08:48:42
316.   Jim Dean
One more instance of where Teaman is a fool:

Damon CF
Cabrera LF
Jeter SS
Matsui DH
Posada C
Abreu RF
Cano 2B
Phillips 1B
Cairo 3B

Where you ask? Why Damon in CF, over Melky, of course!

Let's see:
a) Melky covers more ground.
b) Melky's got the much stronger arm.
c) Melky falls below Damon on the BFoG
d) Melky goes into LF.

You know, you can't embrass Damon by putting him in LF.

And I think it's time Jorge hurt his hammy. Cause the only thing missing from that lineup is Wil the Thrill.

2007-07-05 08:49:23
317.   Jim Dean
311 Great post by the way. I'd never thought of it like that.
2007-07-05 09:11:13
318.   monkeypants
317 Thanks!

316 Yeah, there are a couple of head scratchers here. Damon apparently can play 1B, but can't play corner OF? BTW, they KNOW A-Rod may be out, or at least day-to-day until the ASG or later, so why not call up another position player?

2007-07-05 09:15:38
319.   monkeypants
316 We all know that Jeter's range is declinig at SS. Maybe the team should just position him in short OF today, sort of like the 'rover' in softball. Depending on whether a LH or RH is batting, he could shift around so that Damon and Abreu wouldn't have to run in on the ball, and he's already be positioned to receive Damon's throws.
2007-07-05 09:26:22
320.   Jim Dean
319 Brilliant!

And RLYW has an analysis of defense that doesn't depend on RATE - relying on ZR instead (which has more limitations).

The verdict?

Jeter is, by far, the worst defender on the team.

Otherwise, things don't look so bad and the Yanks would appear to have the best defense they've had in years - helped by pluses at 2B, 3B, and CF.

After Jeter, next worst is Matsui, then the Mhfgxdkjf abortion, then Abreu (just a tick below average), CF (Damon and Melky), A-Rod, and Robby.

2007-07-05 09:32:42
321.   JL25and3
The one thing I'll say in Torre's defense is that left field is a particularly tough position to play in Yankee Stadium - especially in the afternoon, although it's overcast now. Damon's never played there, Melky has.

I'm not saying that's a decisive factor, just that it should be included in the list.

2007-07-05 09:39:02
322.   tommyl
Eh, maybe Damon will run into a wall and let himself actually be DLed for a couple of weeks (not that I'd ever root for anyone to get seriously hurt).

At this point, I've stopped caring about Torre's lineups and in game moves. Its like looking up at the sky when its raining and asking why?

2007-07-05 09:46:54
323.   Jim Dean
321 Fair enough. But Damon has a huge BFoG score!

322 I go back and forth on not caring. Right now it's like watching an accident in slow motion where the driver is asleep at the wheel, the mechanic would wash the windows while the brake fluid leaks, and the owner is playing with his "ships" in the bathtub.

(Thanks to Zack for the car analogy).

2007-07-05 09:55:08
324.   JL25and3
323 On the bright side, here's Joe on Edwar (from this morning's Times):

"He's been released twice by the same club," Yankees Manager Joe Torre said. "If that doesn't make you quit, I don't know what does. To keep fighting back says a lot about him."

So Edwar already has a high BFoG index. That helps.

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