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One and Done
2007-06-05 13:58
by Cliff Corcoran

The Yanks need to sweep their way through the remainder of this week's series in Chicago if they're going to close the Wild Card gap on the punchless White Sox, who managed to punch their card six times last night.

As part of that effort, Tyler Clippard will make his fourth major league start tonight. After dominating the Mets in his debut and being pulled early after four poor, but not awful innings in his follow-up, Clippard lost the plate in his last start in Toronto, walking five and allowing a pair of home runs in five innings pitched. On the other hand, other than those two homers, which plated three runs, Clippard allowed just two other hits, both singles, and no other runs.

Taking the hill for the Chisox will be Mark Buehrle, who has been silencing the doubters who saw his poor 2006 season as a sign of his finally being found out rather than as the fluke it increasingly appears to have been. Buehrle's last start was also in Toronto, an eight-inning complete game loss in which he allowed just two hits, walked none, and struck out six. The only problem was that both hits were solo homers and the White Sox were shut out by Roy Halladay and company. Buehrle did not face the Yankees when they were last in Chicago, but was cuffed around by them in their one meeting in 2006 (3 IP, 8 R). Buehrle did not face the Yankees at all in 2005 and was also cuffed around by the Bombers in 2004 (2 IP, 8 R) but just ten days prior to that he held them to two unearned runs on three hits in eight innings.

Matt DeSalvo, who failed to make it out of the second inning last night after he allowed more base unners than outs through 1 1/3, was optioned back to Scranton. According to the SWB Yankee Blog, spring training superstar Chris Basak has been called up to take his (and ultimately Doug Mientkiewicz's) place. Basak, who can play all around the infield, was hitting .265/.321/.423 in triple-A and will be making his first appearance on a 25-man big league roster. He gets the call over Andy Phillips, who is hitting .312/.381/.485 and has moved back to second base. The Yankees will likely move someone to the 60-day DL to make room for Basak on the 40-man roster.

In addition, Kevin Thompson was optioned back to Scranton in favor of Sean Henn. So, really, Basak replaces Thompson, giving the Yankees two no-hit infielders who will never play and no reserve outfielder. That makes about as much sense as Chad Jennings donning a baseball mitt on his blog's header. With just Basak, Cairo, and Nieves in reserve, the Yankees are in essense playing without a bench as all three are replacement-level or, in Nieves' case, below. Then again, they do have a nine-man bullpen.

For his part, Henn had started three of his four games in triple-A and posted a 4.26 ERA, a 1.11 whip and struck out 11 in 12 2/3 innings. His best outing was his most recent: 5 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 1 BB, 4 K. Henn would likely be optioned back down to make room for Roger Clemens's return on Saturday. Then again, if Henn doesn't pitch in relief during the week, and Clemens' groin remains fatigued, Henn could turn out to be the starter on Saturday.

Comments (443)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-06-05 14:40:46
1.   randym77
I think I'd have taken Andy over Basak.

Though Basak did play well in spring training, at least the games I saw.

2007-06-05 14:46:02
2.   cult of basebaal
i wonder if joe just thought that thompson was a bat boy with an impressive early growth spurt.

he certainly didn't ever seem to think of him as a player

i wonder if the basak move is a prelude to finding out that jeter's going to have to sit a couple of days this week to heal up

2007-06-05 14:51:06
3.   Jim Dean
2 Good call. Probably the only reason I can image it was Basak. Indeed, if Cairo gets the start tonight, that answers things.
2007-06-05 15:02:00
4.   Vandelay Industries
Again, as I rambled on about in yesterday's game thread, how is it that we have no bench at all? I understand that we were supposed to pummel the opposition with out starters, but how can Cashman get credit for keeping all these minor league scrubs, while leaving the team with no bat to bring into games late. Is Miguel Cairo going to hit that walk off home run or double that Ruben once did?

Now that the league has seen our call-ups, who is going to want any of them? I keep Clippard and Hughes, but all others are on the block.

And for God's sake Joe, don't keep going to guys like Villone when we can give the Brittons and Henns of the world a chance. Clearly using Viz, Villone et al. isn't working. So stop doing it!

2007-06-05 15:03:23
5.   monkeypants
This team makes one weird roster move (or non-move) after another. They might as well just play with eight starters, Cairo, Nieves and a 15 player BP.
2007-06-05 15:07:29
6.   Zack
Dear God, as if I thought things couldn't get worse. Even if Joe is going to play Cairo for a few days to rest Jeter (the horror, the horror) either play Cairo and use A-Rod as the ss backup and Andy as the 3b, 2b, and 1b backup, or just DFA the useless Cairo and play Basak. Having both of them on the team is beyond silly. I udnerstand the "need" to have a guy who can back up the IF positions in case of an injury, but are either of those guys really worth it? As in, can they really provide anything? As in, why the heck can't A-Rod play ss for a few games and put someone else at 3b? Ugh, at least with Minky out we can't get the Torre lineup of Cairo, Nieves, and Minky at the bottom...Though if he really is planning on resting A-Rod, we could get Cairo, Basak, Nieves (AGGGGGHHHHHHH!)
2007-06-05 15:08:51
7.   Vandelay Industries
5

Exactly. They do make strange moves. But even stranger, the moves never see any playing time. Joe bent over backwards and downward dog to get Phillips playing time last year, maybe he will at least see if Basak can play? If only so that Phelps doesn't get Jeter killed.

Now that the Yankees are desperate, it is a bad time to make a trade because of our bargaining position. We could have picked up Clark in the Johnson deal. We could have done a lot of things to bring in just one professional bat, but we did not, and now we're screwed. Cashman had said it was a gamble.

2007-06-05 15:09:54
8.   Vandelay Industries
6

There is no way that Joe is going to upset the apple cart by playing Arod at SS. It just wont happen.

2007-06-05 15:11:29
9.   cult of basebaal
carrying over the "real yankee" thread while we wait for the game, i've gotta say, while i'd love to have gary sheffield's RH production this year, i'm sure glad he's no longer around to say things like this (from ESPN):

In an interview in the June issue of GQ magazine, the typically outspoken Tigers designated hitter said Latin players have replaced African-Americans as baseball's most prevalent minority because they are easier to control.

"I called it years ago. What I called is that you're going to see more black faces, but there ain't no English going to be coming out. … [It's about] being able to tell [Latin players] what to do -- being able to control them," he told the magazine.

"Where I'm from, you can't control us. You might get a guy to do it that way for a while because he wants to benefit, but in the end, he is going to go back to being who he is. And that's a person that you're going to talk to with respect, you're going to talk to like a man.

"These are the things my race demands. So, if you're equally good as this Latin player, guess who's going to get sent home? I know a lot of players that are home now can outplay a lot of these guys."

2007-06-05 15:11:48
10.   Bama Yankee
Something tells me that Chris Basak will play a "Wicked Game" tonight...
;-)
2007-06-05 15:12:06
11.   Vandelay Industries
They also have to place Damon on the DL to heal as best he can. Unless he is going to play 1B, he is of absolutely no use to us right now.
2007-06-05 15:13:16
12.   monkeypants
7 Do you mean NOT to get Phillips playing time? This is the same manager who started Cairo at 1B over Phillips, who was designated as Giambi's back-up. He only started 49 games and significant % of his ABs came in odd late inning PH. Often he would let Giambi bat in the late innings and then grudgingly insert Phillips only as a PR of fielding replacement.
2007-06-05 15:13:49
13.   Vandelay Industries
10

I am all for giving him a shot.

2007-06-05 15:15:25
14.   Vandelay Industries
12

He did get to start 49 games, right? Almost 1/3 of the season. I wanted him to succeed as much as the next guy, but he proved impotent, and not exactly stellar with the glove.

2007-06-05 15:15:35
15.   monkeypants
11 These are the non-moves I was referring to. It happened last year with Sheff--instead of putting a player on teh Dl, they sit him for a few days, then he plays here and there ineffectively, then sits again, then finally goes on the DL after essentially occupying a roster spot for two weeks. He should have been DLed weeks ago, and that spot freed up (along with Giambi's, which also should have been opened two weks ago).
2007-06-05 15:16:58
16.   monkeypants
14 Maybe 49 games is enough--that's not the point. It is just inaccurate to say Torre bent over backwards to get him playing time. He got 200+ ABs despite Torre, not because of his efforts.
2007-06-05 15:19:09
17.   Vandelay Industries
15

I could not agree more. Johnny cannot play defense right now, cannnot hit, and his only benefit to us is on the basepaths, but he has to get on them first. Just put him on DL so he can be of some use to us later on. Not ever being on the DL is not a streak for God's sake! Its a sign of both good conditioning, but more likely, just plain and simple good luck. Luck is not a reason to let someone gobble up a roster spot. But why not have a guy with an OBP of .350 lewading off? Makes sense to me.

2007-06-05 15:21:01
18.   Vandelay Industries
16

And he wasted eight out of ten of them. This isn't little league. You make the most of the chances you get, and if you don't, you get replaced. I like Andy, but this persistence on the part of many here to believe he is a MLB player, makes me sleepy.

2007-06-05 15:23:20
19.   monkeypants
18 You're missing my point. If he is not ML quality, then take him off the roster. But he was put on the roster to be the back-up 1B, and early in the season especially Torre moved heavan and earth not to play him. I am not arguing the merits of Phillips as a player, I am contesting your statement thet Torre bent over backwards to get him PT, when if fact he seemed to go out of his way not to play him.
2007-06-05 15:25:46
20.   monkeypants
{18} In fact, if Torre has gone out of his way to get anyone PT, it's Miguel Cairo, by playing him as BU 1B and even throwing him in the outfield, in addition to his designated BUIF role. He is also the primary pinch runner (which, admittedly, he seems to do admirably). It's like Torre needs a Cairo/E. Wilson/Soho clone on the bench or he gets the willies.
2007-06-05 15:27:46
21.   Vandelay Industries
19

Agreed.

On a happier note, my silver lining this year is that I am getting to see a lot of young guys play. I have to hang my hat on something, right?

I just wish Joe would stop using Villone and Viz and give Britton, Bruney, Proctor, Myers, Henn, and Mo every chance to succeed.

Oh wait, and that Farnsworth guy. Let him pitch once in a while too.

2007-06-05 15:30:29
22.   monkeypants
19 Sorry--many typos in that one. Must preview comment first...

21 Agreed. That's why I am so disappointed about Hughes. I figure the season is pretty much a was, I would rather watch prospects (Hughes) and no so prospects (Clippard and even De Salvo), then known dregs.

2007-06-05 15:31:29
23.   Vandelay Industries
20

I actually like having Cairo on the bench. He may not be used properly, but runs the bases well, can lay down a good bunt, and is tough to strike out. Not to mention his defensive use at many positions. It is who is sitting next to him on the bench that is the problem, not Cairo. If he was sitting next to Tony Clark and Hatteberg, no one would care that Cairo is on the team.

2007-06-05 15:35:05
24.   monkeypants
22 "than known", not "then..."

Dammit Monkeypants, get it together.

2007-06-05 15:36:08
25.   Shaun P
2 3 I'll bet you guys are right. Hoo-boy.

Cairo has 2 hits (1 double) and 3 RBIs vs Buerhle (in 6 ABs, so .333). He's also hit .293 vs LHP in his career.

I'll bet Damon and Jeter sit, Melky plays CF, Basak at SS, Phelps at DH, and Cairo at 1B.

Gosh, I hope I'm wrong.

2007-06-05 15:40:15
26.   cult of basebaal
25 I guess that would be "The House Money Lineup w/ Special Sauce"

I wonder if there's anyway to work Wil ".091" Nieves into there somehow ...

2007-06-05 15:41:33
27.   Vandelay Industries
I guess my way of thinking has always been that you never release a player unless you have someone of equal or better value to replace them. This has been my issue with Cashman all along. He has made some great deals, don't get me wrong. But we could have El Duque, Lieber, and a Tony Clark on the team for 10 Mil. between them. Instead we have Villone, Vizcaino, Cairo and other scrubs.
2007-06-05 15:45:36
28.   monkeypants
26 Is the point when people can finally stop saying the team "has enough offence" so they can start Minky/Cairo/Joe Schlobotnik at 1B?
2007-06-05 15:46:24
29.   cult of basebaal
27 well, to be fair, Lieber was a industry valuation miscalculation that resulted from Happy Omar dishing out 7 mil per for Anna Benson's uglier half ... still, point taken ... the haphazard way this teams leverages its resource advantage drives me crazy
2007-06-05 15:52:15
30.   Vandelay Industries
29

Cashman is just shortsighted is all. Sometimes you take a chance on a trade, and hope for the best. I understand that. But when you just let guys walk because you think you're smart enough to replace them, is just bad management. Duque had never been any good in the post-season for us, right? Lieber wouldn't be a better spot starter or relief guy, would he? It was a good idea to just assume that Igawa would be MLB ready, right? Cashman takes the easiest GM job in all of sports due to resources, and turns it into rocket science. He, Isiah, and Mitch Kupchak should be drinking fruit drinks in the Bahamas right now, not GM's of professional sports teams.

2007-06-05 15:55:01
31.   monkeypants
26 Is the point when people can finally stop saying the team "has enough offense" so they can start Minky/Cairo/Joe Schlobotnik at 1B?
2007-06-05 15:55:22
32.   Vandelay Industries
All this is actually making me follow NASCAR. I'm following NASCAR for God's sake! Help me Mr. Steinbrenner, please!
2007-06-05 15:55:43
33.   monkeypants
28 31 How did that happen?
2007-06-05 15:56:13
34.   Vandelay Industries
31

Dude, I was hoping we could get Dusty Baker's kid to play a little 1B as well, no?

2007-06-05 16:02:42
35.   markp
I

"Is the point when people can finally stop saying the team "has enough offence" so they can start Minky/Cairo/Joe Schlobotnik at 1B?"

I hope so, but I doubt it.

2007-06-05 16:10:26
36.   Vandelay Industries
It's time for Cashman to get the fires burning for Mark Teixeira. Texas isn't going to sign him to a long term deal. He's only 27, and we have no plan at 1B. I can assume that the Yankees will buy Giambi out. We need a long term plan at 1B, and Mark Teixeira is that plan.

But instead, Cashman will probably sign an aging Hunter, or blow a bunch of cash on one of the Tampa Bay outfielders. Do the right thing Cash, do it!

2007-06-05 16:11:10
37.   randym77
2 What impressive early growth spurt? KT is about 5' tall. ;)
2007-06-05 16:13:08
38.   Vandelay Industries
This just in. Larry Flynt has offered one million dollars to anyone who can teach Joe Torre how to use a bullpen. He was going to offer one million to anyone with proof of an affair with Joe, but even he couldn't imagine anyone having sex with him willfully.
2007-06-05 16:18:47
39.   Sing Sing Platypus
36 Realistically, what do you think it would take to get Teixeira? And is it a price they should pay for someone who's probably going to be a rental?

And 38 eeeeeeewwwwwwwww!

2007-06-05 16:19:13
40.   Schteeve
This season makes my eyes hurt.
2007-06-05 16:21:17
41.   Vandelay Industries
39

Whatever it takes, less Hughes, get him. He won't be a rental, they should sign him to a long term deal. He's only 27 and averaging 36 HR and 114 RBI in four seasons.

2007-06-05 16:26:22
42.   Jim Dean
Cairo is at 1B tonight. Not sure about the others.
2007-06-05 16:27:25
43.   Jim Dean
Ok, here you go:

Damon DH
Jeter SS
Abreu RF
Rodriguez 3B
Posada C
Matsui LF
Cano 2B
Cabrera CF
Cairo 1B

Why not just DFA Phelps? Really, what's the point anymore?

2007-06-05 16:28:59
44.   Vandelay Industries
43

Because I dont want to go through what I had to go through last year with another career minor leaguer who many think is a baseball player.

2007-06-05 16:32:09
45.   seattleyank
I'm curious what the Banter community thinks about this: if the Devil Rays put Elijah Dukes on the trading block (and it sounds like they will), should the Yanks take a run at him? Should his character issues (re: he's an asshole) make us want no part of him? If not, what would you (the collective you) be willing to give up for him?
2007-06-05 16:32:17
46.   randym77
43 Why am I not surprised?

At least Joe might have played Andy over Miggy.

2007-06-05 16:39:55
47.   Jim Dean
46 There's no Andy - he's at The Office.
2007-06-05 16:42:14
48.   Jim Dean
45 I don't care about a-holes. If he can play, get him. And have him earn his spot next year.
2007-06-05 16:43:01
49.   JL25and3
30 Whatever you may say about the Sheffield and Johnson deals of the last offseason, they certainly weren't shortsighted. You can argue - OK, Jim Dean can argue - that they weren't the right deals, but they were still made for the long term.
2007-06-05 16:43:31
50.   JL25and3
48 Elijah Dukes is more than an a-hole. He's dangerous.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-06-05 16:45:39
51.   Jim Dean
49 I didn't have a problem with the Shef deal.
2007-06-05 16:48:36
52.   JL25and3
51 Yeah, I know. And if that was a cheap shot, I hope it was at least gentle enough.
2007-06-05 16:53:05
53.   Jim Dean
52 No, at all - I could see how a reasonable person could think that. :)
2007-06-05 16:53:53
54.   cult of basebaal
44 but you're perfectly fine with the sucking chest wound of offensive ineptitude that is miguel cairo???
2007-06-05 16:58:19
55.   bartap74
That's starting first basemen Miquel Cairo. God help us if he gets 2 hits and Torre decides to make him the regular.
2007-06-05 17:02:32
56.   cult of basebaal
i mean, this whole phelps thing is a perfect reminder of torre's modus operandi with his bench ... sit somebody until they're good and rusty, then throw them in the fire, watch them fail and then bury them

unless, of course, they've got that shiny stamp of veteran approval ... then, they get to plenty of opportunities to prove that first failure wasn't a mirage

this season has been and will be, a test of creative, thoughtful (and patient) managing ... too bad torre has essentially managed it as if medicated, punching the same tired buttons in numbingly rote fashion

gah.

2007-06-05 17:09:53
57.   BklynBmr
Oh. Good. The Chicago feed is on EI tonight. Three hours of Hawk.

51 Same here. Good riddance.

2007-06-05 17:11:21
58.   williamnyy23
If you MUST start Cairo at 1B, why not DH Phelps and give Damon a rest against a lefty against whom he has a career .547 OPS in 44 PA? Oh wait...Phelps has a .237 OPS against Buerhle in 13 PAs.

Geez...not many exciting options here.

2007-06-05 17:11:54
59.   bartap74
I don't care if he's dead - I want Billy Martin back. If I can't have him, I think Earl Weaver is both alive and available.
2007-06-05 17:16:24
60.   Yankees Brasil
Jeter needs to get some rest soon..
2007-06-05 17:26:14
61.   seamus
clippard really almost missed the bag. still. like the DP.
2007-06-05 17:26:17
62.   williamnyy23
Baseball can be a funny game...all afternoon, we debated Phelps inability to throw and wouldn't you know, his replacement starts a 3-6-1.
2007-06-05 17:31:39
63.   monkeypants
44 You do realize that the career minor leaguer who caused you so much distress last season outhit tonight's starting 1B? Whatever you think about Phillips, you cannot rationally prefer to see Cairo ou there.
2007-06-05 17:47:02
64.   Jim Dean
Did Sterling just keel over? I heard a loud thud on the mic and Suzyn finished the play-by-play.
2007-06-05 17:48:06
65.   monkeypants
64 Well, I never root for an injury, but...
2007-06-05 17:48:46
66.   monkeypants
Oh god, that seals it.
2007-06-05 17:48:51
67.   Jim Dean
Damn, Sterling is alive.

Oh, and it turns out he and Suzyn are big Cairo boosters.

How nice!

2007-06-05 17:50:52
68.   monkeypants
67 Well, as Sterling would say, he is the best .125 hitter you have ever seen.
2007-06-05 17:53:49
69.   Jim Dean
68 That Cairo....He....does....so....many...things...right.
2007-06-05 17:54:14
70.   Yankees Brasil
Jeter needs some rest now..
2007-06-05 17:54:43
71.   Jim Dean
"Right there is Damon" - I'll drink to that!
2007-06-05 17:55:31
72.   RIYank
Yo.
I see the Captain is responsible for an unreasonable number of outs so far.
How's T-Clip going?
2007-06-05 17:56:51
73.   Jim Dean
72 Dancing in and out of trouble - seems with his control waxing and waning.

2 K's this inning.

2007-06-05 18:00:32
74.   randym77
Meanwhile, in St. Louis...Bennet gets beaned by Harang. Molina has a broken wrist, so it's Kelly Stinnett to the rescue.
2007-06-05 18:01:15
75.   bobtaco
Psssst.... start the runners.....
2007-06-05 18:02:58
76.   Yankees Brasil
3 GIDP in 4 innings ... doesn't look good
2007-06-05 18:03:27
77.   Jim Dean
75 Nah...why do that? Wouldn't that involve the manager [gasp] managing?
2007-06-05 18:05:03
78.   seamus
aren't folks normally complaining that torre does that too much?
2007-06-05 18:05:44
79.   bobtaco
77 Maybe the bench coach could mention it.
2007-06-05 18:09:15
80.   monkeypants
What was A-Rod doing on that play?
2007-06-05 18:10:15
81.   MVB
What just happened? Gameday showed Dye at first, and then a ground out by Piersynski that sent Dye all the way to third!
2007-06-05 18:11:16
82.   bobtaco
81 He went to back up Jeter and then Dye beat him to 3rd.
2007-06-05 18:12:03
83.   Jim Dean
78 What? You mean how he ran on Varitek's solid 1 for 18 caught stealing percentage?
2007-06-05 18:12:31
84.   RIYank
Big K.

I see now, Clippard is really all over the place. His curve does seem pretty hard to hit. (Of course, it's the White Sox, so slow pitch softballs are hard to hit too.)

2007-06-05 18:13:19
85.   bobtaco
Man, Jeter looks terrible in all facets right now.
2007-06-05 18:14:12
86.   seamus
83 I'm not specifically talking about Varitek. Just pointing out that folks have consistently criticized Torre for running too much. The first time it isn't work for us, folks criticize Torre for not running. It is an observation.
2007-06-05 18:14:41
87.   Jim Dean
So Torre takes out Clippard this inning or next inning?

(And yes, I'm very chippy tonight. It took exactly one game for Cairo to start at 1B)

2007-06-05 18:15:39
88.   Jim Dean
86 Who are these "folks" you speak of. I've never heard that criticism.
2007-06-05 18:15:56
89.   bobtaco
87 He's thrown a lot of pitches (60+) but I think Torre has to give him a longer leash this time, no?
2007-06-05 18:16:05
90.   RIYank
87 Hey, he's 1-for-1 and started a tough double play. Get pissed off after he grounds out a few times.
2007-06-05 18:16:07
91.   monkeypants
87 Well, he just gave up a run on two grounders past Jeter and a goofy defensive lapse, so I'm surprised he let him finish the inning.
2007-06-05 18:17:13
92.   monkeypants
90 No--that's the biggest reason to get pissed. Now he has earned three weeks of starting!
2007-06-05 18:18:53
93.   monkeypants
WSox middle infield has been really well-positioned the last couple of innings. Matsui and A-Rod hit balls well up the middle, fielded with ease.
2007-06-05 18:19:21
94.   RIYank
By the way, I think Uribe should be ejected. On Matsui's grounder he fielded the ball on the wrong side of second base! I'm sure that's illegal.
2007-06-05 18:20:08
95.   thelarmis
89 well, with what an 8 or 9 man bullpen, he may be walking to the mound often. : ~
2007-06-05 18:20:38
96.   bobtaco
when Cano is going well, it is so beautiful.
2007-06-05 18:21:03
97.   thelarmis
94 only if it was fielded like that by alex. get with the program! ; )
2007-06-05 18:21:20
98.   mehmattski
Just checking in, after catching up on DVR. Man, Jeter needs to take some time off. Is Basak even here yet? Why didn't he start? Cairo at 1B makes me sick; PeteAbe's sarcasm about it makes me sicker.

In happier news, I <3 Robbie Cano.

2007-06-05 18:22:16
99.   thelarmis
i was hoping WGN would be showing the game, but it's one of those nights that the cubs play a rare night game. oh well, i can get some practicing in...
2007-06-05 18:22:31
100.   RIYank
REmember when Abreu couldn't get on base and Cano couldn't hit? That sucked.
Of course, this sucks too, but in a different way.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-06-05 18:23:50
101.   SpoonG91
The strength of the bottom of the order is horrible. We really need Damon at first... nice hit there by Cairo, though.
2007-06-05 18:23:51
102.   mehmattski
Oh no. Now Cairo's gonna start the rest of the season. I've never been less happy about an RBI.
2007-06-05 18:23:55
103.   bartap74
55 Uh oh.
2007-06-05 18:24:06
104.   thelarmis
detroit is losing big early. we can gain a game on both central teams. as cliff noted in his post, we really need to take these 3 final games vs. the pale hose...

CAIRO!

did i just type that?

2007-06-05 18:24:18
105.   RIYank
Oh yeah, Miggy makin' JD eat those words!
2007-06-05 18:24:37
106.   monkeypants
Ladies and Gentlemen, meet your 2008 starting 1B for the New York Yankees!
2007-06-05 18:24:56
107.   thelarmis
that seals josh phelps' fate...
2007-06-05 18:26:15
108.   SpoonG91
106 God help us all!
2007-06-05 18:26:21
109.   Jim Dean
106 I just threw up and swallowed it. Then threw up again.
2007-06-05 18:26:51
110.   mehmattski
Wait, guys, he got picked off. Maybe he'll get Charles Gipson treatment!
2007-06-05 18:27:04
111.   RIYank
Too bad he can't run. Otherwise he'd be the perfect first baseman!

I seriously considered getting a new Toaster handle and showing up as someone who really admired Cairo and wants him to get more time. But then I decided that would be childish.

2007-06-05 18:27:39
112.   SpoonG91
How much time to you guys figure Basak will see?
2007-06-05 18:30:21
113.   mehmattski
111 You'd have competition from whoever edited Cairo's wikipedia page:

"Further evidence of Cairo's value is that he led the league in percentage of productive outs this year for players with a minimum of 40 at bats. "

"In fact, Miguel Cairo has the highest winning percentage of team wins when he plays in a game of any player in the majors this year (for players with over 100 games played)."

Not sure what "this year" means. 2005, maybe, when he played exactly 100 games.

Talk about your cherry picking...

2007-06-05 18:31:06
114.   SpoonG91
Damn, that pitch was nasty!
2007-06-05 18:31:14
115.   Jim Dean
What is it - the idiot club in the booth? Feisand is trying to out-stupid Suzyn and Sterling.
2007-06-05 18:31:20
116.   thelarmis
iirc, didn't cairo have like a 4 stolen base game for us in the not so distant past?

me and my big mouth - detroit chipping away...

2007-06-05 18:31:28
117.   seamus
113 or maybe that was written in 2005? to be fair...
2007-06-05 18:31:52
118.   Sing Sing Platypus
113 Hey, be nice. His mom worked a long time on that page!
2007-06-05 18:34:14
119.   SpoonG91
Iguchi has no clue up there.
2007-06-05 18:34:30
120.   bobtaco
WTF is going on with Arod?
2007-06-05 18:35:14
121.   Jim Dean
Uh oh, Joe. Clip's at 81 pitches. You got to take him now.
2007-06-05 18:35:33
122.   RIYank
Go edit the page! It's wikipedia. It's for the people.

So, it's true, isn't it, that the one thing a young pitcher tends to learn is 'command'. Because Clippard really might turn out to be good. His curve is pretty fierce.

But, it's the White Sox.

2007-06-05 18:35:37
123.   mehmattski
116 Cairo has never stolen more than two bases in a game for the Yankees (twice in 2006). He has none this year.
2007-06-05 18:37:03
124.   SpoonG91
Give it to the kid, Blue!
2007-06-05 18:38:09
125.   RIYank
Clippard's average distance from the strike zone might be the largest I've ever seen.
2007-06-05 18:38:44
126.   monkeypants
Joe...reaching...for...panic...button...
2007-06-05 18:39:12
127.   bobtaco
Nice work Clip.
2007-06-05 18:40:11
128.   RIYank
Yay!
Nice to see the kid get the last batter he'll face tonight.

Now, top of the order, and Damon can thank Miggy for erasing two strikes.

2007-06-05 18:40:59
129.   bobtaco
121 128 Joe should go batter by batter with him for the 6th.
2007-06-05 18:42:04
130.   seamus
somebody needs to tell the sox announcer that that worked just fine.
2007-06-05 18:42:31
131.   RIYank
Ha, there ya go! Buehrle throws the 'third strike' to Damon, and then he gets a hit! I'm gonna chalk that hit up to Cairo. So now Miggy is 3-for-2.
2007-06-05 18:43:22
132.   bobtaco
Bobby!
2007-06-05 18:44:03
133.   RIYank
Whew, Cap'n back. And Bobby, too. Helllllo, Big Inning.
2007-06-05 18:46:55
134.   Mattpat11
Jeter making it to first may be the best thing about this inning. He's running a little better.
2007-06-05 18:47:58
135.   randym77
I don't think the CS will hurt him. Cairo is supposed to be the best base runner on the team. He'll ride on the reputation for a long time.

I like Miggy as a bench player, but he's best in small doses.

2007-06-05 18:48:55
136.   bobtaco
Wow, nice slide! That throw was right on.
2007-06-05 18:49:36
137.   randym77
It's like a whole new Abreu. I like it...
2007-06-05 18:49:48
138.   Jim Dean
Sterling: Scoring is Abreu...here's the throw from Dye and he's safe.
2007-06-05 18:50:47
139.   bobtaco
Why does the Hawk talk about Matsui like Gammons talks about David Ortiz?
2007-06-05 18:51:52
140.   monkeypants
With a four run lead, it would be nice to squeeze to more innings out of Clippard, but his pitch total is pretty high.
2007-06-05 18:52:57
141.   Mattpat11
137 New Abreu reminds me of Old Abreu.
2007-06-05 18:55:31
142.   RIYank
Darn, if only Cairo could have gotten a crack we might have broken it open.

Yay! EDSP! I've missed him so.

2007-06-05 18:56:31
143.   RIYank
So, let's see. Proctor, Bruney, Farns, Mo? Obviously not Britton tonight.
2007-06-05 18:56:41
144.   bobtaco
129 I guess Clippard turns into a pumpkin if he goes past the 5th.
2007-06-05 18:57:18
145.   mehmattski
143 Let's score some more runs and put Sean Henn in there.
2007-06-05 18:57:44
146.   Jim Dean
I think Joe didn't want DeSalvo AND Clippard to have as many quality starts as Mussina.
2007-06-05 18:58:19
147.   bobtaco
143 We'll see what comes up on the Wheel of Guts, right Jim?
2007-06-05 18:58:48
148.   williamnyy23
Quick Cashman...sign Cairo to a long-term deal!
2007-06-05 18:59:04
149.   seamus
gotta give cairo credit tonight. He has done ok.
2007-06-05 18:59:08
150.   mehmattski
Cairo has a ZR of 1.000, btw.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-06-05 18:59:24
151.   RIYank
MIGGYMANIA!

I have to admit I'm taking a perverse pleasure in this Cairo thing. If you guys didn't despise him so much I would have to fill the hate gap, but, well, I'm hoping one of you will explode.

2007-06-05 18:59:38
152.   monkeypants
The Cairo Show tonight is some kind of perverse torment.
2007-06-05 19:00:13
153.   Jim Dean
I just ate my chunks from 109. So 106 true.
2007-06-05 19:00:20
154.   3rd gen yankee fan
Wow that was pretty.
2007-06-05 19:00:44
155.   monkeypants
150 To be fair, one would expect a defensive replacement middle infielder to have good range at 1B.
2007-06-05 19:01:07
156.   RIYank
145 Sean Henn, I would vote for that, definitely.
2007-06-05 19:01:39
157.   mehmattski
Let me be the first to say: I don't give a Buckvich
2007-06-05 19:02:05
158.   RIYank
No joy in Mudville
Mighty Miggy
Has struck out.
2007-06-05 19:02:59
159.   Jim Dean
147 That's right - I'm betting EDSP for his second inning.

Nah, maybe it's "Use Five pitchers tonight"

2007-06-05 19:03:10
160.   RIYank
157 It's hard to believe you'll be the last, though.

Ah, Johnny D. And now let's see if this is Captain Clutch or his evil twin, Cap'n GIDP.

2007-06-05 19:03:34
161.   bobtaco
Anyone keeping an eye on the Toronto game?
2007-06-05 19:04:11
162.   RIYank
159 Another inning for Proctor is very logical. But the Wheel respects no logic, right?

It's the real Captain after all!
This is a very inspiring game.

2007-06-05 19:04:52
163.   RIYank
161 Holy cow. 11 to 10.
2007-06-05 19:06:02
164.   thelarmis
11-11
2007-06-05 19:06:28
165.   bobtaco
163 11-11 they scored 5 now in the B9
2007-06-05 19:07:41
166.   thelarmis
pitching change for TB, man on 2nd, 1 out
2007-06-05 19:07:50
167.   RIYank
Helz yeah.
2007-06-05 19:08:31
168.   seamus
if the ball bounces after the tag, he is likely safe.
2007-06-05 19:09:10
169.   RIYank
Somebody make a joke about pulling Bukvich.
2007-06-05 19:09:48
170.   RIYank
168 ??? Something an announcer said?
2007-06-05 19:10:16
171.   seamus
169 i can't. I see that name and I can't help but get a serious case of empathy for him as a kid... ouch!
2007-06-05 19:10:27
172.   thelarmis
ah, buk n' vich!
2007-06-05 19:10:47
173.   seamus
170 i don't remember. maybe i was just doing stream of consciousness.
2007-06-05 19:11:39
174.   thelarmis
new pitcher brought in to throw 2 IBB's. force at every base up north...
2007-06-05 19:12:36
175.   seamus
so, sheffield can't figure out why folks are upset? Did someone suck his brain out?
2007-06-05 19:12:55
176.   bobtaco
175 Might be 3
2007-06-05 19:13:46
177.   thelarmis
OMG, he did walk a 3rd. jays won. wow.
2007-06-05 19:16:42
178.   RIYank
Wow. 177
Were you watching the game, or Gameday?

I absolutely despise those IBBs in a one-run or tie situation. I remember we've won a couple because of the opposing manager doing it.

2007-06-05 19:18:09
179.   thelarmis
178 nah, i follow all this stuff at the espn scoreboard. i know, i know...
2007-06-05 19:18:57
180.   weeping for brunnhilde
I love Paulie.

Girardi just brought up one of O'Neill's recurring dreams, that he got a hit to right field but he was running through quicksand so the rightfielder threw him out.

Beautiful!

2007-06-05 19:19:26
181.   bobtaco
178 I flipped over and the last two pitches weren't evn close. Jays celebrated like they won the WS. But they did come back down from 5, so...
2007-06-05 19:19:56
182.   cult of basebaal
well, this is nice, i leave work with the score tied 0-0 and the yanks having grounded into 3 dps in 4 innings ... i get home and we're up 6-1 ... nice

is there some reason clippard got yanked after 5 innings and 89 pitches, or is joe just auditioning for entertainment director of the local bullpen forced labor camp?

2007-06-05 19:21:26
183.   Mattpat11
151 Is Miggymania related to Stinkapalooza?

I actually like Cairo on the bench.

2007-06-05 19:21:41
184.   RIYank
182 No reason beyond the 89 pitches, no. But Proctor got a five-pitch inning!

The team is rewarding you for your choice words to Will Weiss this afternoon, Baal boy.

2007-06-05 19:22:43
185.   RIYank
183 Yes!

And I assume you mean you like him on the bench if the alternative is starting.

2007-06-05 19:24:28
186.   Shaun P
182 C'mon cult, get with the program. Clippard is a rookie. He's got a long way to go until his belly is as full of guts as Villone, Vizcaino, or EDSP. THEN Torre will let him pitch in the 6th.

;)

EDSP throws 2 innings, but uses only 22 pitches. What are the odds he comes out to the start the 8th, too?

2007-06-05 19:25:44
187.   Shaun P
180 weeping, I figure you've got to be loving this game. The Yanks have 4 doubles, ten singles, a sac fly, and no home runs. Oh, and A-Rod went the other way in his last AB, dropped a liner into left to score a run.
2007-06-05 19:26:06
188.   weeping for brunnhilde
These guys are cute--I think Girardi and O'Neill are my favorite combo.

Where's Leiter been, btw?

Anyone know?--I miss him.

2007-06-05 19:27:16
189.   bobtaco
188 Better than Hawk and DJ for sure.
2007-06-05 19:27:40
190.   RIYank
I was thinking of you too, Weeping, for the same reason.
Shaun, there's no way Proctor comes out again. Unless... the Wheel of Guts comes up on double-zero!

Let's score three more runs and get a look at Sean Henn 2.0.

2007-06-05 19:27:46
191.   Mattpat11
185 I don't mind him spot starting and as a bench player. His presence on the team infuriates me far less than several other players in recent years.
2007-06-05 19:28:05
192.   Shaun P
187 "A-Rod . . . dropped a liner into right" Sorry.

188 Maybe Al is gearing up for his senatorial campaign? ;)

2007-06-05 19:28:44
193.   weeping for brunnhilde
187 Yes, Shaun, yes!!

Don't forget our first run?

Cairo with a little line drive up the middle!

That's baseball!

:)

And yes, Alex made me happy with that little dunker to rightfield--it plated the run!

Get the job done!

2007-06-05 19:29:24
194.   RIYank
Melky joins the hit parade! Sweet.
2007-06-05 19:30:52
195.   nemecizer
I hope Yankees not use up all hits in bats tonight. Maybe hats for bats to keep bats warm for tomorrow.
2007-06-05 19:31:01
196.   weeping for brunnhilde
Cano spraying the ball around, hitting the ball hard each time.

I love this.

Oh, and didn't Cairo bunt for a single, or did I imagine that? (I've been checking out the Mets periodically, so maybe I'm confusing things.)

2007-06-05 19:31:51
197.   RIYank
Dewon Day, my prince will come.
2007-06-05 19:31:55
198.   bobtaco
196 Both Cairo and Jeter did.
2007-06-05 19:32:41
199.   weeping for brunnhilde
194 Yes, for Melky!
2007-06-05 19:32:48
200.   BklynBmr
9,175 Sheffield is a F'n bore. And not the sharpest tool in the shed, by any stretch.

"These are the things my race demands. So, if you're equally good as this Latin player, guess who's going to get sent home? I know a lot of players that are home now can outplay a lot of these guys."

"Demands"? Really? Maybe there's just something in human nature that triggers a person to make a decision about who they want to associate with based on attitude and behavior, no matter their race. If two players are "equally good" — Asian, Black, Caucasian, Latino, whatever — and one has a chip on his shoulder, who do you want to live with for the next 8 months?

I dunno about anyone else, but I want to see the best players we can field, regardless of who their ancestors procreated with — and this whole thing about a "lack" of American blacks in the game for a specific reason is a very bad assumption to buy into at face value. If Sheffield is trying to make the case that racial discrimination against blacks is the reason, he has to step up with proof. Now.

If he, or anyone, has a shred of evidence that black minor leaguers are being held back from The Show in favor of 'passive Latins' — let's hear it. Otherwise this screed accomplishes nothing more than heaving a few more needless coals on the fire of race relations in this country.

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-06-05 19:33:04
201.   RIYank
196 He did indeed. (Because he isn't good at hitting baseballs. That's what gutsy guys do instead of hitting.)

Whoa, Uribe heads up.

2007-06-05 19:33:20
202.   cult of basebaal
191 he's certainly not individually the biggest problem around, but he's collectively part of one of the biggest problems, which is our anemic bench ... and i have a sinking feeling his 2 hits tonite mean a couple more weeks of watching him flail and hack and suck up outs at the plate like a giant sponge
2007-06-05 19:33:25
203.   seamus
what was that?
2007-06-05 19:33:32
204.   weeping for brunnhilde
Ha!

That was funny, that little toss from Iguchi and Iribe wasn't there!

Like at the circus!

2007-06-05 19:37:08
205.   bobtaco
I knew the Wheel was going to come up Farns.
2007-06-05 19:37:19
206.   cult of basebaal
hmmm ... the wheel of guts ... round and round and round it goes, on whom it stops only torre knows

it sounds like a bad medieval torture device ... PUT HIM ON THE WHEEL OF GUTS ... CRUCIFY HIM!

2007-06-05 19:37:31
207.   Mattpat11
No Joe, I never pay to see Kyle Farnsworth.
2007-06-05 19:39:34
208.   bobtaco
206 I think it's featured in this painting by Pieter Bruegel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Triumph_of_Death

2007-06-05 19:40:06
209.   weeping for brunnhilde
This is great, they're ribbing Kay about talk radio.

Girardi: "That's a lot of talking, don't you get tired of talking?"

O'Neill: "You ever twist stories on talk radio, Michael?"

2007-06-05 19:40:27
210.   RIYank
200 On Sheff's remark: see this article with good quotes, especially (believe it or not) Ozzie Guillen's.

http://tinyurl.com/3c2hrl

Sample:

"I guarantee that Latin American people play more baseball than any people, because that's all we have," Guillen told the newspaper. "You have more people playing baseball in Venezuela or the Dominican than anywhere, so there are going to be more players from there."

2007-06-05 19:40:35
211.   Shaun P
205 You know though, given Farnsworth's success against Ortiz, I don't mind seeing him pitch to Thome here. Now, a nice GIDP by Dye would do, Kyle.
2007-06-05 19:40:38
212.   cult of basebaal
207 well, think of it like the deals you get with cheap chinese food ... you know ... "with ticket, you get farnsworth"
2007-06-05 19:40:57
213.   thelarmis
i HATE leadoff walks. no matter the situation...
2007-06-05 19:41:33
214.   bobtaco
This sounds like Torre's BP management right?

The breaking wheel (also known as the Catherine wheel; originally, the whele) was a torturous capital punishment device used in the Middle Ages and early modern times for public execution by cudgeling to death. It was not used for coercion through torture.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breaking_wheel

2007-06-05 19:41:45
215.   RIYank
Farns, if you see anyone with a batting average over .250, walk him.

Okay, good job, you should be safe for a few innings now.

2007-06-05 19:42:13
216.   Mattpat11
212 I'd call the FDA on them.
2007-06-05 19:42:34
217.   cult of basebaal
why couldn't joe use henn here ... i mean, 2 of the first 3 hitters are lefties ... christ
2007-06-05 19:43:20
218.   weeping for brunnhilde
You guys didn't think this would be easy, did you?

Here we go!

2007-06-05 19:43:36
219.   RIYank
Shoot, I was going to defend Farns, too.
Double play very unlikely here, so let's go for the K.
2007-06-05 19:43:52
220.   tommyl
Anyone else wish we had Farnsy pitch 3 innings last night and Britton was available?

Argh, Kyle, you suck. Why must Joe insist on trotting him out there. Easiest way to improve this team is keep Henn and Britton, and get rid of Vizcaino and Kyle.

2007-06-05 19:43:59
221.   weeping for brunnhilde
213 No matter the situation, agreed.
2007-06-05 19:44:24
222.   RIYank
Bruney's up. I guess that's a good thing. To be honest, I'd like to see Mo now.
2007-06-05 19:45:06
223.   weeping for brunnhilde
We gotta get Mo up.

Now it's Mo or nothing.

2007-06-05 19:45:06
224.   bobtaco
You'd think he could eat one inning with a 5 run lead. Sheesh.
2007-06-05 19:45:52
225.   cult of basebaal
you know what i'd like to see ... torre go out to the mound, point out beyond the bullpens, whisper "the rabbits, farns, the rabbits" and club the useless POS with a cudgel
2007-06-05 19:45:59
226.   thelarmis
"Easiest way to improve this team is keep Henn and Britton, and get rid of Vizcaino and Kyle."

I-I!

2007-06-05 19:46:00
227.   weeping for brunnhilde
222 We either want this game or we don't.
2007-06-05 19:46:24
228.   RIYank
Ooooh, almost.
Yeah, Mackowiak is too fast.
2007-06-05 19:46:52
229.   Mattpat11
I'd like to note that since before the end of the 2005 season, I was 100 percent against the Farnsworth signing. This is not second guessing. This is not Monday Morning Quaterbacking. I never wanted him. I've never been impressed by him.
2007-06-05 19:47:01
230.   weeping for brunnhilde
Also, I think Mo needs to start picking up the slack.

He doesn't have the same luxuries he used to, so I think it's fair to ask more of him.

More outs, more non-save situations.

2007-06-05 19:47:08
231.   cult of basebaal
too soft for a dp, or mackowiak too fast?
2007-06-05 19:48:07
232.   Shaun P
210 Ozzie says some stupid things, but he seems like an intelligent guy. Dude can sure run a bullpen.

I think Ozzie is right about the money too. In baseball, you have to go through an apprenticeship, in either the minors for a few years, or college and then the minors. Even then, when you're first called up, you don't get a big payday for 2 or 3 years. Maybe more. So you might be 28 before you get paid.

Meanwhile, in the NBA and the NFL, you get drafted and you're in the league instantly, so you get paid big bucks a lot quicker. Plus, the NBA had Michael, then Kobe, and now LeBron too. Who's the equivalent guy for MLB? It was Griffey, back in the 90s, but now the most famous black baseball player is also the most decried - Barry Bonds.

2007-06-05 19:48:32
233.   weeping for brunnhilde
In fact, you know what?

Why not think about using Mo differently now that we're losers?

Surely we could get more use out of Mo with this team given what this team is. Play around with bringing him in earlier in games, since we never have work for him.

2007-06-05 19:49:34
234.   Mattpat11
230 As Mo gets older, he should be afforded more luxuries. Which is why we need a dependable set up man. And not the useless Kyle Farnsworth.
2007-06-05 19:49:36
235.   RIYank
231 Both. Slow grounder, a slow guy probably would've been doubled up.

232 He's totatlly right about the money, and about how many Venezuelans, e.g., play baseball and nothing else.

Good Farns!

Uribe is the perfect batter for Farns, he swings at everything and he can't catch up to the heat.

2007-06-05 19:49:47
236.   weeping for brunnhilde
Yessssssss!

Nice job, Kyle, nice job.

2007-06-05 19:50:43
237.   Shaun P
226 Replace "Farnsworth" with "Villone" and I'm on board.

Krazy Kyle isn't awesome, but he's more useful than Villone. The problem is that Torre keeps using him in the 8th as the primary setup guy for Mo. I'd rather see Bruney in that role, and have Kyle pitch some low-leverage innings like the 6th, or in blowouts.

2007-06-05 19:51:07
238.   BklynBmr
210 Good piece. Ozzie was spot on with this one, too:

"It's not that they can control us; maybe when we come to this country, we're hungry," Guillen told the newspaper. "We're trying to survive. Those guys sign for $500,000 or $1 million and they're made. We have a couple of dollars. You can sign one African-American player for the price of 30 Latin players. Look at how many Latin players have won Cy Youngs or MVP awards the last couple of years, how many Latin players have been in the All-Star Game; it's quantity and quality."

There is a multi-pronged dynamic going on here that Sheffield misses completely.

2007-06-05 19:51:10
239.   Mattpat11
236 Don't encourage him.
2007-06-05 19:52:13
240.   weeping for brunnhilde
234 Yes, but in the meantime, he could be helping his team more.

His full value to the team is squandered right now because he never pitches.

In order to win more games, you should see to it that your best pitcher pitches more often.

Adapt to new circumstances.

2007-06-05 19:52:31
241.   Max
Five run lead, the guy's playing with house money...yet he ends up with a 25 pitch inning...and he somehow gets away with only giving up one run.
2007-06-05 19:53:09
242.   Mattpat11
237 Villone can at least pitch two days in a row.

All Farnsworth offers is strikeouts. And I'm sorry, but I don't find strikeout numbers all that impressive when you give up runs and allow base runners hand over fist.

2007-06-05 19:53:36
243.   weeping for brunnhilde
What's up with Derek, btw? Where, exactly is he banged up?

The foot, was it?

2007-06-05 19:54:01
244.   RIYank
237 I'm with you on that, I think Farnsworth is significantly more useful than Villone.

If Henn can get back to April form, our much-maligned (and properly so) bullpen could be decent. Bruney, Proctor, Britton, Henn, Rivera, that's better than most pens, for sure. And young.

2007-06-05 19:54:38
245.   bobtaco
240 I would have liked to see Hughes as the set-up guy to get his innings in, which is what I think the Twins do with their young pitchers to get them experience. Imagine if the starters had been healthy and Hughes was slotted into the 8th inning instead of ProcFarnsViz.
2007-06-05 19:54:41
246.   cult of basebaal
237 that's the thing, it seems like joe is completely unwilling to actually change things on the fly during a season based on who's pitching well and who's not, who's reliable and who's not, finding ways to put players in situations where they're likely to suceed and effectively and efficiently managing his ENTIRE bullpen
2007-06-05 19:56:18
247.   RIYank
240 I basically agree with you. But there are two ways to get the most out of your best pitcher. One is to get as many innings as possible, and the other is to get him into the most important innings. The modus operandi with Mo has, obviously, been the second, which is traditional (as much as use of a closer can be 'traditional').
But I do think we could strike a happier medium. The iron clad rule that Mo pitches only the ninth is not a good one.
2007-06-05 19:56:34
248.   mehmattski
Quick, before it gets taken down:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyle_Farnsworth

2007-06-05 19:56:36
249.   bobtaco
Moonshot
2007-06-05 19:56:47
250.   RIYank
Oh, sorry, Weeping! I thought they were going to win without a long ball.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2007-06-05 19:57:04
251.   Mattpat11
A-Rod is fun to watch when he gets going
2007-06-05 19:57:05
252.   seamus
a-pad my man!
2007-06-05 19:57:06
253.   weeping for brunnhilde
Oh, Jesus.

God, that man hits the baseball.

Gave me a little frisson off the bat, I'll admit.

Nice hit, Alex.

2007-06-05 19:57:26
254.   tommyl
Wow
2007-06-05 19:57:30
255.   cult of basebaal
A-GONE!
2007-06-05 19:57:35
256.   Jim Dean
Ha!
2007-06-05 19:57:52
257.   weeping for brunnhilde
Jorgie with the opposite field double!!!

I'm loving it.

Great game, great game!

2007-06-05 19:57:54
258.   RIYank
Yeah! Now everyone has a hit. Whew, I didn't want Jorgie to feel left out.
2007-06-05 19:57:55
259.   mainmanmaitland
232 Totally agree with your points about the NBA and the NFL. Also if economics is an factor I would think it is easier for a black kid growing up to play Football or Basketball. You can play either sport with less guys and less gear.

Basically you only need a basketball or a football to play those sports and there are hoops and fields around that you can use.

Baseball requires gear that adds up if you don't have much money (mitt, helmet, bat, etc) and you need a fair amount of people to actually play a game.

2007-06-05 19:58:32
260.   weeping for brunnhilde
Oh my God, 17 hits!

17 hits!!!!

And only one homerun!!

Sheer beauty!

2007-06-05 19:58:37
261.   Mattpat11
248 I don't notice anything amiss.
2007-06-05 19:58:39
262.   Shaun P
Ah, A-Rod. What a swing.
2007-06-05 19:58:54
263.   weeping for brunnhilde
And the homerun was the perfect homerun.

Classical.

2007-06-05 19:59:09
264.   cult of basebaal
248 nice
2007-06-05 19:59:33
265.   RIYank
253 The pitch he hit was a terrible pitch, like batting practice. He's a helluva mistake hitter.
2007-06-05 20:00:45
266.   weeping for brunnhilde
Man, Hideki gave that a ride!

EVeryone's hitting!

Oh, and btw, did you guys see that throw by Dye back in the middle innings? The play at the plate?

Man that was a pretty throw.

2007-06-05 20:00:47
267.   seamus
ha! they credited jeter with the homerun. Don't wanna give arod the credit i guess.
2007-06-05 20:00:47
268.   Shaun P
259 Also great points. And you can play a full, intense pickup basketball game or football game in 30 minutes.

With 30 minutes, even playing stickball or wiffleball, you might get two innings in if you're lucky.

Baseball takes money, and time, and space, and lots of kids these days don't have any of those.

2007-06-05 20:01:21
269.   weeping for brunnhilde
265 ha ha ha ha ah hah aha !!!

Touche!

2007-06-05 20:01:39
270.   cult of basebaal
was that as close to being out as gameday made it seem?
2007-06-05 20:01:56
271.   bobtaco
266 and he runs into walls, judging from the last catch.
2007-06-05 20:02:43
272.   RIYank
269 Thought you'd like that.
(I was also serious, though, it was a very fat pitch.)

Hey, no Mo! Bruney will work hard to give him a save situation.

2007-06-05 20:03:06
273.   weeping for brunnhilde
Wow, Melky!!

That was a tough play!

2007-06-05 20:03:22
274.   RIYank
270 Sure was. Took a good play by Dye to reel it in, too.
2007-06-05 20:03:25
275.   seamus
270 warning track shot. caught on the run by Dye.
2007-06-05 20:06:28
276.   3rd gen yankee fan
266 I did notice that. And then I thought how nice it would be to have him on the Yankees. And then my bf said the Giants were interested in him too.
2007-06-05 20:06:31
277.   BklynBmr
273 That was. The Melkman is lookin' better and better out there...
2007-06-05 20:07:56
278.   RIYank
Nice job, Brian. Now it's a save situation.
2007-06-05 20:08:14
279.   weeping for brunnhilde
So if the bases are loaded, it's a save situation, right?

Tying run on deck?

2007-06-05 20:08:17
280.   bobtaco
276 Check out what Mike P. had to say about him yesterday...

http://canyonofheroes.blogspot.com/2007/06/abreu-for-dye.html

2007-06-05 20:08:31
281.   BklynBmr
Let's get the DP and call it a night, Yanks...
2007-06-05 20:09:40
282.   weeping for brunnhilde
Come on, Bruney, you gotta just challenge him!
2007-06-05 20:09:50
283.   monkeypants
If Melky can keep playing a nice CF then he justifies hitting relatively lightly. Of course, if he picks it up, anything he does on offense is gravy.
2007-06-05 20:10:07
284.   seamus
say Brian Base on Balls Bruney 5 times fast.
2007-06-05 20:11:06
285.   RIYank
Base on Balls.
Brian Bruney.
Bronx Banter.

More than a coincidence????

2007-06-05 20:11:52
286.   weeping for brunnhilde
Huh.

How 'bout that, eh?

Hey Joe, nice to see you again!

2007-06-05 20:12:20
287.   Mattpat11
Did Bruney get anyone out? I don't remember.
2007-06-05 20:12:20
288.   bobtaco
I wish we had a Scot Shields.
2007-06-05 20:12:44
289.   weeping for brunnhilde
285 ha ha haha!!
2007-06-05 20:12:45
290.   tommyl
Dear lord, we have the worst BP I have ever seen.

Ok, I know the last time I was a pitcher was little league, but I managed to throw strikes, keep the ball down and move it around. Seriously, if you throw 98 mph, please just throw it down the middle for chrissakes.

2007-06-05 20:13:23
291.   weeping for brunnhilde
287 :)

Yeah, he did, but I don't remember either.

2007-06-05 20:13:37
292.   RIYank
287 It was a long time ago. He also got out Owens, but Jeter felt sorry for him.
2007-06-05 20:14:26
293.   Mattpat11
Come on DP.
2007-06-05 20:14:36
294.   3rd gen yankee fan
280 Thanks!

I cannot believe that we have a 5 run lead, one out in the ninth, and we are sweating it. Joe, WHY didn't you bring Mariano in in the first place?

2007-06-05 20:14:53
295.   weeping for brunnhilde
Come on, Mo!
2007-06-05 20:15:32
296.   Max
I guess a bullpen full of journeymen and an aging Mariano Rivera isn't exactly the recipe for quick, painless games.

Even with seven runs and 17 hits.

2007-06-05 20:15:32
297.   Mattpat11
294 If you didn't have to, he did work on Sunday and we want him fresh for tomorrow through Sunday.
2007-06-05 20:15:44
298.   weeping for brunnhilde
Oooh, that 1-1 was right down the pike, 91mph.
2007-06-05 20:15:45
299.   Shaun P
Mo does need the work. Who was it before that said it was never easy - they were right.
2007-06-05 20:16:14
300.   Mattpat11
Okay. No harm no foul.
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2007-06-05 20:16:18
301.   weeping for brunnhilde
Nicely done, Mo.
2007-06-05 20:16:46
302.   Mattpat11
299 He's been working more frequently lately.
2007-06-05 20:17:13
303.   seamus
302 i've been working more frequently as well.
2007-06-05 20:17:15
304.   RIYank
Okay, Mariano, I would rather not see Konerko up as the tying run, so let's get this stiff loser schmuck and call it quits.
2007-06-05 20:17:20
305.   weeping for brunnhilde
His velocity really is down.

Movement sharp, but velocity down.

2007-06-05 20:17:21
306.   bobtaco
302 and he's looking much sharper.
2007-06-05 20:17:28
307.   Shaun P
302 Yeah, but Torre was itching to use "the formula" tonight. The Wheel of Guts told him to.
2007-06-05 20:17:57
308.   Mattpat11
I know we discuss ugly baseball players on the Banter alot, but have we ever got into the elephant man like Jason Schmidt?
2007-06-05 20:18:11
309.   seamus
i would have tried to not use Mo too.
2007-06-05 20:18:52
310.   BklynBmr
Joe should just take a page out of how the 'Stros no-hit us a few years back. Every game:

Wang for 2 innings.
Moose for 2.
Andy for 2.
Rocket for 1.
Everyone and anyone in the 8th.
Mo for 1.

Why the F not? This way, all the Torre bashing ends because everyone pitches every night, and the focus can return to who is getting the job done and who isn't. Just a thought ;-)

2007-06-05 20:18:52
311.   JeremyM
305 Earlier in the year, I thought his velocity was fine, but his movement was gone.
2007-06-05 20:19:01
312.   Mattpat11
Didn't Mo have a long AB against AJ for his 400 save?
2007-06-05 20:19:20
313.   RIYank
Good.
Okay.

Weeping, you can see how fast he's throwing??? I could never do that, ever. (All pitches look like blazing fastballs to me.)

2007-06-05 20:19:29
314.   weeping for brunnhilde
Yay, a Mariano grounder to second!

Nicely done, boys, nicely done.

A fairly elegant victory!

2007-06-05 20:19:36
315.   bobtaco
TClip!
Miggy!
Cano!
Mo!
2007-06-05 20:19:58
316.   Shaun P
308 I don't think we have. Otis Nixon has got to be on the short list though, for 'ugliest ballplayer of all time'.
2007-06-05 20:20:03
317.   seamus
Ha!
2007-06-05 20:20:10
318.   3rd gen yankee fan
Clippard in the dugout is a riot.
2007-06-05 20:20:44
319.   seamus
jorgie should yell Ha as the pitch approaches home plate.

(no, i'm not serious).

2007-06-05 20:20:58
320.   RIYank
For the record, Gameday has just about every Mo pitch at just about 95 mph.
2007-06-05 20:21:02
321.   seamus
318 hmm?
2007-06-05 20:21:07
322.   BklynBmr
1-Zip A's over Boston, top of the 5th in Oaktown...
2007-06-05 20:21:12
323.   weeping for brunnhilde
"Catch the ball, make a good throw, and do your job."

--Migel CAiro.

Music to my ears.

I like this guy.

2007-06-05 20:21:42
324.   seamus
322 i hope my wife is having fun. she just sent me a photo from that game. i don't think she has ever done thatbefore.
2007-06-05 20:21:48
325.   Shaun P
Hooray, a Yankee win. I'm off to bed before the wife kills me for staying up late. =)

And Schteeve, if you're still reading this, congrats on the engagement - I didn't have a chance to say it before.

2007-06-05 20:21:53
326.   3rd gen yankee fan
321 Oh on YES they showed him cringing at one of those last foul balls.
2007-06-05 20:22:37
327.   seamus
326 ah, thanks.
2007-06-05 20:22:53
328.   monkeypants
323 He clearly is the longterm solution at first. Notch one for Cashman.
2007-06-05 20:23:05
329.   cult of basebaal
316 julian "mogwa" tavarez is up there too
2007-06-05 20:23:34
330.   Mattpat11
Mo since the Beltre HR

9.2 IP 5 H 1 R 1 BB 9 K

.156/.206/.281

2007-06-05 20:23:47
331.   williamnyy23
Walking men out of the bullpen is a serious problem. Britton has displayed pretty decent control, so I hope he gets the chance to move up in the pecking order. You simply can not have your late inning guys put men on base (especially in situations when they have the luxury to fire the ball down the middle).
2007-06-05 20:24:13
332.   RIYank
324 Seamus, she's in attendance?
Boston is in a very quiet nosedive. They've lose four out of five, right?
2007-06-05 20:24:46
333.   weeping for brunnhilde
320 YES had 92mph, consistently.
2007-06-05 20:25:44
334.   rabid stan
305 320 The YES gun is usually 2-3 mph slower. Watch the swings, that'll tell you which is more accurate on a given night. Pierz was thinking he had to cheat to catch up to Mo inside. That's not the kind of thing one does against a pitcher throwing 91. The gameday gun is probably right.
2007-06-05 20:25:44
335.   cult of basebaal
331 true, true, i'm curious to see how britton works out ... i thought he threw harder, but he barely broke 90 last night night, you don't have much room for error there
2007-06-05 20:25:52
336.   Mattpat11
And his ERA is under 5 now.

Even if we don't do well this year, I want him to have very good numbers.

2007-06-05 20:25:59
337.   seamus
332 yes. she is out there for work.
2007-06-05 20:26:38
338.   BklynBmr
324 Well you've done the right thing by staying home and following the Yankees game ;-)

The broadcast in on KICU (channel 6 if you have Comcast)...

2007-06-05 20:26:42
339.   cult of basebaal
alright ... 1 down, 2 more to go in the series, see y'all later
2007-06-05 20:28:07
340.   weeping for brunnhilde
So where's Derek, now, around .320? He peaked in the .360s for a couple of weeks, right, and then he's been steadily declining for what, three, four weeks now?

I hope he levels off now, because we can't afford to have him around .300 unless everyone else actually starts to contribute.

Tonight sure looked good, and they said Damon's enthusiastic about his new assignment because it'll let his legs heal.

That would be cool if we could get him back around .300 in time.

And nice job by Clippard.

He hung in there.

2007-06-05 20:28:50
341.   seamus
338 stayed home in pittsburgh... :)

332 I think you are right about the sox losing 4 of 5.

2007-06-05 20:29:27
342.   BklynBmr
Ah, DoucheK is on the hill for Baastin. Let's go, A's!
2007-06-05 20:32:04
343.   RIYank
333 334 Well, put it this way: Gameday had Farns topping out at 97, most fastballs 95 or 96. In other words, Mo is just a hair slower than Farns's heat. So that should be fast enough.
We all agree that the cutter cutting is a lot more important than hitting 95mph, anyway, right?
2007-06-05 20:32:54
344.   rabid stan
340 An oh-fer-thirteen stretch (which Jeter had prior to his bunt single) will deflate a batting average pretty fast. It doesn't take 4 weeks to drop a lot of average. Jeter's slump has actually been much shorter.
2007-06-05 20:33:06
345.   RIYank
340 Jeter is at .328.

Look at the White Sox' batting averages. Then ask yourself how on earth they can win more games than us.

2007-06-05 20:33:50
346.   weeping for brunnhilde
He really does have good stuff, this Clippard.

He could really develop, no?

2007-06-05 20:33:57
347.   BklynBmr
341 My bad. Realized after I typed it that you would probably know where to find the game on the tube if you were here... ;-)
2007-06-05 20:34:25
348.   rabid stan
343 Sure. He hasn't gotten by for the last nine years throwing nothing but straight mid-90's fastball.
2007-06-05 20:34:50
349.   seamus
346 I'm happy that he is sticking around for now. give him a chance. He hopefully will gradually improve control and limit his pitches per inning.
2007-06-05 20:35:38
350.   Mattpat11
Uh Oh. Matsuzaka is having a good game. And I was going to watch ESPN tonight too. Oh well.
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2007-06-05 20:37:18
351.   williamnyy23
Mariano's K/9IP rate is actually as good as it's ever been outside of 1996. I don't think his early struggles were a stuff issue, but rather location problems. I more than comfortable attributing that to his sporadic workload and look forward to Mo being very good for the rest of the year. Maybe he has dropped a little bit, but I think accounts of his demise were in deed a bit premature.
2007-06-05 20:37:25
352.   seamus
double by swisher. 2-0.
2007-06-05 20:38:56
353.   Mattpat11
351 My only fear was an injury issue.
2007-06-05 20:40:08
354.   RIYank
350 You should watch, I think. One hit for Boston, six (including HR) for Cleveland.
2007-06-05 20:40:44
355.   weeping for brunnhilde
You know who I used to love watch hit, aside from Mattingly?

Rickey.

That man had a nice swing, nice quick hands.

2007-06-05 20:41:17
356.   rabid stan
351 He has only 23 walks + hits in 20.2 innings this year. You can thank Marco Scutaro and that first Red Sox game for his terrible line.
2007-06-05 20:41:49
357.   RIYank
Daisuke wasn't really pitching a very good game -- he got a little lucky, I think. Six hits and two walks, the homer and the double, he threw 96 pitches in five innings. Pretty lucky to get out of that with just two runs.
2007-06-05 20:43:30
358.   bobtaco
They are talking up Miggy on the Post game show.
2007-06-05 20:43:33
359.   weeping for brunnhilde
What the hell is a "rep?"

They keep talking about Miggy getting more reps?

What's that?

I like Cairo offensively too, DJ!

(Justice says he likes Cairo offensively because there's a lot of things you can do with him and he doesn't overswing. I agree.)

Play Cairo.

2007-06-05 20:43:48
360.   RIYank
I think Clippard does have a chance to get pretty good, yeah, Weeping, I agree. (I think I suggested that earlier.)

Kids can gain control, command, which is what he's missing. Of course, he has no fastball, which probably limits his upside. But he could be a Moose-type.

2007-06-05 20:44:19
361.   Mattpat11
357 Matsuzaka dominated the Rangers when he gave up five runs in five innings.

This is Bob Gibson in 1968.

2007-06-05 20:44:35
362.   weeping for brunnhilde
Exactly, just like Jose Vizcaino.

Agreed, David Justice.

Remember Vizcaino won us that game against the Mets in extra innings with that line drive over the shortstop's head?

I liked Vizcaino, too.

I like these kinds of guys.

2007-06-05 20:45:05
363.   RIYank
A 'rep' is a repitition. I think football picked it up from weight room slang, and thence to baseball.
2007-06-05 20:46:08
364.   RIYank
361 This is why I'll never write for a major paper.
2007-06-05 20:47:00
365.   weeping for brunnhilde
360 Yay, another Moose-type!

Give me slap-hitting defenders and slop-ball pitchers anyday--that's so fun to watch!

Remember that video game from the '80s? What the hell was it called, not Microleague, but something else...

Anyway, you could choose "heat and sluggers" are "knuckles and liners."

I'd choose heat and sluggers, but only because it was hard to catch a flyball and the sluggers hit lots of flyballs.

Where was I going with this?

2007-06-05 20:48:13
366.   rabid stan
360 Moose had a fastball. Remember when he would sit 92-94?
2007-06-05 20:48:51
367.   Mattpat11
Things are going south in Oakland.
2007-06-05 20:49:33
368.   seamus
367 trying to give boston a walking chance!
2007-06-05 20:50:05
369.   rabid stan
Ian Kennedy, that's a Moose-type. Low 90's, good curve, good control.
2007-06-05 20:50:09
370.   RIYank
Dinardo walks Pedroia, Ortiz single, walks Manny on four pitches to load the bases with one out.
I can't stay up for this, I should go to sleep. Especially since it's unclear who I should be rooting for in that game! Oakland is a WC contender.
2007-06-05 20:51:07
371.   seamus
370 i saw eyes always on the big prize and the spoils of the WC will come.
2007-06-05 20:51:42
372.   seamus
besides. i hate bawston.
2007-06-05 20:51:59
373.   seamus
is he going to walk in a run? ass.
2007-06-05 20:52:16
374.   weeping for brunnhilde
311 That's absolutely true, I remember that too.

He was still up around 94 and even 95, but poor movement.

2007-06-05 20:52:35
375.   Mattpat11
Worlds ugliest man GIDP to end the inning without a run
2007-06-05 20:53:02
376.   bobtaco
Nice, DiNardo got out of it.
2007-06-05 20:53:04
377.   seamus
oh, i so take 373 back. the crapper really does suck!
2007-06-05 20:53:18
378.   RIYank
Youk saves the day.
I guess I'm rooting against the Sox. Old habits die hard.
2007-06-05 20:53:19
379.   rabid stan
Lenny! gets the double play ball. Boston reamins shut out.
2007-06-05 20:53:22
380.   seamus
375 his propper name is the crapper.
2007-06-05 20:55:11
381.   RIYank
375 World's Ugliest Jewish Major Leaguer.

That does it for me -- gotta take my son to early morning jazz band rehearsal tomorrow. (Sounds like an oxymoron, doesn't it?)

Ha!

2007-06-05 20:55:15
382.   Mattpat11
380 noted.
2007-06-05 20:55:19
383.   Yankee Fan in Chicago
Nothing better than watching Boston gets shut down by a guy they released.

(Man that Theo's a genius. Releases diNardo, but keeps the likes of Hansen and delCarmen.)

2007-06-05 20:55:27
384.   weeping for brunnhilde
334 Ah, excellent, excellent point, stan, thank you!

You're right, I know what you mean.

2007-06-05 20:55:45
385.   Mattpat11
Clippard dresses like the Beav
2007-06-05 20:56:09
386.   weeping for brunnhilde
Aw, Clippard. He's such a midwesterner. A real farmboy!

Nice and all-American!

:)

Very "aw shucks."

2007-06-05 20:57:09
387.   Mattpat11
386 Isn't he from Kentucky?

I think he may just have really poor fashion taste

2007-06-05 20:57:14
388.   seamus
g'night.
2007-06-05 20:57:17
389.   bobtaco
385 But he's very articulate.
2007-06-05 20:57:19
390.   weeping for brunnhilde
Wow, he's not afraid to walk guys!

That's awesome!

He has a lot of confidence.

He doesn't want to give in, but wants to make guys hit his pitch.

I like this kid.

2007-06-05 20:58:50
391.   bobtaco
390 Totally.
2007-06-05 21:00:58
392.   weeping for brunnhilde
366 Yeah, Moose did have a fastball in his prime, but still, Clippard was up to 89, right? That's hard enough if he learns to use it right.

Also, is it possible that his velocity could increase with age? Is he still young enough for that?

2007-06-05 21:02:53
393.   weeping for brunnhilde
385 Exactly like the Beav!!

ha ha haha!

2007-06-05 21:04:26
394.   weeping for brunnhilde
389 Yes, he is, and very well composed.
2007-06-05 21:15:39
395.   rabid stan
392 89-90 will do fine in he can keep it low and on the corners. He has the off-speed stuff to make it work. I like his curveball.

As for any increase, there's that old baseball cliche, "You can't teach velocity", and it's mostly true.

Every once in awhile you'll see a bolt from the blue, like when Rivera went from throwing high-80's to mid-90's in '94-'95, and sometimes guys gain 2 mph or so after Tommy John rehab, but otherwise, what you see from a 23 year-old pitcher is what you're gonna get. Maybe if he fills out, maybe if there's a mechanical adjustment to be made, he'll gain a little. But you can't flip a switch and have a guy throw harder.

Filling out or fiddling with mechanics may just as easily ruin him. As it is, he can be pretty good.

2007-06-05 21:17:22
396.   Mattpat11
Johnson passed Roger for 2nd all time in ks tonight
2007-06-05 21:22:49
397.   rabid stan
396 Randy likes the national league. I'm happy for him. I really am. The bastar....
2007-06-05 21:24:02
398.   weeping for brunnhilde
395 That's interesting, because hitters develop more power as they age, no? From say, 21-28 or so?

I look forward to watching Clippard develop.

2007-06-05 21:31:30
399.   rabid stan
398 Velocity peaks earlier, primarily because pitching wears the arm down continuously. Felix Hernandez throws 97 now, but he won't throw any harder at 28, he'll just have more scar-tissue in his arm. Hitting fly balls doesn't leave scar-tissue, so power-hitters develop longer.
2007-06-05 21:32:43
400.   rabid stan
...before injury and age catch up to them.
Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2007-06-05 21:41:50
401.   weeping for brunnhilde
399 Ah, that makes perfect sense, thanks.
2007-06-05 21:45:19
402.   Mattpat11
My father just told me Baseball Tonight says the Yankees just signed Runelvys Hernandez.

Please, Please, Please tell me I'm wrong.

2007-06-05 21:45:28
403.   DougP
ESPN is reporting that the Yankees signed Runelvys Hernandez.
2007-06-05 21:46:27
404.   Mattpat11
403 Damnit.
2007-06-05 21:47:11
405.   DougP
Yeah, I hadn't really been paying attention to the TV until they said that, but I think they reported that it was to a minor league contract.
2007-06-05 21:47:54
406.   Mattpat11
DAMNIT
2007-06-05 21:48:31
407.   DougP
I have a vague recollection that he pitched for the Red Sox last year. I'm going to look up his stats now.
2007-06-05 21:48:45
408.   rabid stan
404 His BP Reference page is the number one result for the google search 'Runelvys'
2007-06-05 21:49:27
409.   Mattpat11
yhuj7976yut43769098076y
2007-06-05 21:49:41
410.   rabid stan
er, Baseball Reference.
2007-06-05 21:51:32
411.   Mattpat11
He'll be on the big league team within two weeks.

And I was feeling so good after this game.

2007-06-05 21:53:43
412.   DougP
Ugh. And his numbers have gotten worse every year since he made his debut in 2002.
2007-06-05 21:56:00
413.   rabid stan
411 I bet he replaces Britton.

Elvis/Villone/Viz can work the seventh, Farns is our eighth inning guy, Proctor just throws all day every day in the bullpen until called, and Bruney can mop up five-run leads, or otherwise sit on his right-hand thumb.

2007-06-05 21:56:25
414.   Mattpat11
Thats without even getting into the Royals declaring him too fat to pitch last year.

He is wretched. This is no justification for this.

2007-06-05 22:04:18
415.   rabid stan
Alan Embree closes out the Sox.

A night of vengeance for misfit pitchers in Oakland.

2007-06-05 22:04:33
416.   Mattpat11
[414} *There is no justification for this.
2007-06-05 22:06:12
417.   BklynBmr
A little welcome help from the A's. Final: 3-hitter vs Boston tonight, winning 2-0.
2007-06-06 01:02:45
418.   Zack
So am I right in assuming that Cairo will now be firmly entrenched at 1B b/c hes a warrior and can turn a 3-6-1 dp? Which means we have basically replaced Minky with a WORSE version of Minky? Yikes...
2007-06-06 04:27:26
419.   seamus
418 our first base situation isn't very good, so Cairo, Phelps, Minky all seems to be a bit of give and take at this point doesn't it?
2007-06-06 04:46:30
420.   seamus
i just looked at the all star voting for the first time. I know this is a popularity contest, but it really irks me that Posada isn't way out front, but fourth! arod and jeter are shoe ins.
2007-06-06 05:56:10
421.   monkeypants
421 Two hits and 3-6-1 DPs or not, Cairo is the worst solution at 1B (worse than Minky). First, he will never hit well enough to justify starting, let alone starting at a corner position. Second, by making him the primary 1B (or even primary 1B back-up), the team will feel compelled to call up another middle infielder as the back-up IF (Basak). So now the bench is weakened even more.

Either you stick with Phelps, or make a move for another 1B, but using Cairo this way is a disaster.

2007-06-06 05:57:22
422.   monkeypants
421 Grrr...I meant of course 419.
2007-06-06 06:12:32
423.   seamus
421 you state that "he will never hit well enough to justify starting, let alone starting at a corner position." How is this different than Minky?

My comment wasn't that Cairo was a good choice for 1B. It was that I don't see it being all that worse a choice than Phelps (whose defense does stink) or Minky (who can't hit baseballs). I'm not sure how your comment addresses this.

The point of a backup fielder is interesting, but when Minky went down didn't we need another infielder anyhow? And yes, while I feel good for Basak getting his opportunity, I doubt anyone but his family is excited about what he brings to the team.

2007-06-06 06:43:29
424.   rbj
Got in a bit late, and didn't feel like firing up the computer, is Clippard o.k.? It looked like he was pitching pretty well, and at only 89 pitches I expected to see him at least for the 6th inning -- so why was Proctor in there?

I mean, I can't imagine Torre pulling a rookie starter after only 5 innings (with a 4 run lead) just to put Proctor in there to get some work in. Right?

2007-06-06 07:40:21
425.   weeping for brunnhilde
421 I don't get all this hubub about "corner positions."

It seems so rigid and formulaic to me. Who cares where the offensive production does or doesn't come from?

Brosius didn't hit very well, save for his first and last year, yet I'm glad he was on the team.

Cairo is what he is, which is a solid player who can come in and play 1B if you need him to, so why not let him do his job?

Can you elaborate on why "using Cairo in this way is a disaster?"

If you can explain it without using lots of numbers, I'd appreciate it.

I understand he's not the best player in the world, but given the situation, he seems fine as a temporary solution.

I'd certainly rather see him than Phelps, if Phelps' glove is as bad as people say it is.

2007-06-06 08:05:32
426.   RIYank
424 I think you've managed to figure it out for yourself.

425 The point about corner positions is pretty simple: middle infielders don't hit as well as 1- or 3-basemen, so if you have, say, Alex Gonzales, you feel you aren't sacrificing a lot in the way of batting to get a vg fielder, whereas if you play Doug Scrabble at first, the 'opportunity cost' is very large. (Imagine using Mario Mendoza as your DH. Why is this so much worse than having him as your shortstop?)

2007-06-06 08:34:50
427.   weeping for brunnhilde
426 But shouldn't the measure be the team as a whole?

I mean, if you've got Derek Jeter at short, Robinson Cano at second (or Sori before him) and Arod at third, you've already got three infielders, two of them middle infielders, who are far above average, so what's the harm?

It just seems kind of formulaic to me to say: "We can't afford to carry this one's bat as a first baseman" if we're getting production from elsewhere.

This team's problem isn't a lack of production from the likes of Mientkiewicz or Cairo, it's the lack of production from the guys who were actually expected to hit.

I don't know, it just seems to me like you want a team with enough production and balance and good enough fielding to win. I guess you could have a formula (we need the corner outfielders and infielders all to slug), but I don't see how one should be enslaved by it, as a hard-and-fast rule.

Bernie was a cleanup hitter as a centerfielder whereas our leftfielders were all mediocre, our shortstop was a much better hitter than our third-baseman, and our catcher could pop 20 homeruns.

Not very formulaic, but successful.

2007-06-06 08:36:12
428.   monkeypants
423 Minky was "hitting" an OPS+ of 81, though he was "improving" after a horrible start. For his career he is 98, the last two seasons 94 and 91. Let's assume he would hit somewhere between OPS+ 80 and 90 for the season. Cairo's career OPS+ is 78 (!), and his last two seasons (let's forget this year, when he has only a handful of ABs) were 64 and 59 (!!!). So, whlie Minky is super-stinky, he is not nearly as iggy as Miggy.

No, we don't need another IF, at least not another middle IF. We need another bat/1B. If you plan to use Cairo as super-sub for all IF positions, then why bring up another middle IF--to hit for Jeter, A-Rod or Cano? Better to call up another OF or someone who can PH.

425 I am sympathetic to your position, but only to a point. But look at it this way, some positions are easier to play defensively, others are harder. Therefore, when you consider the combined value of a player (Offense+Defense), you need to consider how much weight is granted each part. In the AL, a pitchers defensive value is 100% and offensive value 0%. So, it does not matter if an AL pitcher can hit or not, what matters is his pitching.

A very good defensive shortstop helps the team more than a very good defensive corner OF or 1B. Thus, you can afford a lighter hitting SS because his defensive cointributions will make up for his hitting. That is just not the case with 1B--the difference between the very best and very worst defensive 1B is not so great (despite how ugly bad defensive 1B can be), so you cannot justify losing a significant amount of offense from 1B in the name of stellar defense. Swapping CAiro in for week at 2B is thus tolerable; at 1B is inexcusable.

There is another way to look at this. Jeter is one of the best hitting SS in the league, and even with his subpar D, he is a net plus for the Yankees. Similarly, Jorge is having one of his best seasons at C--a traditionally light hitting position. Having great hitters at these positions gives the Yankees an advantage over other teams. BUT if you put an underperformer at another position (like 1B), you have squandered that advantage. A quick scan of the AL 1B stats according to MLB.com shows that the average 1B in the AL this year (which includes Stinky Minky and some part time players) is .766--the average of full-time 1B is higher. Minky's current .671 costs the team .105 OPS relative to the compatition. Now, put in Cairo (OPS .504 currently) and you are likely sacrificing the offensive advantage that both Jeter and Posada give you over their counterparts.

I already elaborated in my post on why Cairo is a disaster. In an emergency for a game or two, sure throw him out there. But you can't give away outs by starting him at a position where his counterpart is likely to be slugging over .500. It is also a disaster because of the way it affects the roster. As Cliff pointed out in the article (and I merely copied), once Cairo becomes the full-time 1B (and for how long--Giambi is not back for weeks), then you bench the better hitter in Phelps. Worse, Cairo is now unable to hold down the bench as the redundant back-up infielder that the Yankees crave, so they then call up another lousy, no-hit middle infielder Basak. This results in a bench of Phelps, Basak, and Nieves. Just let that sink in.

So, to add it up, with no fancy numbers--you put a horrible hitter in the field, at a position where his hitting probably wastes the offensive advantage of two plus hitters for the Yankees, which in turn necessitates putting more horrible hitters on the bench. If this situation lasts more than a day or two, I can see no other word to describe it than "disaster."

PS--I was not happy to see Brosius out there. They should have kept Lowell, and with the exception of his cancer year, the numbers bear that out.

2007-06-06 08:37:32
429.   weeping for brunnhilde
426 I think maybe what I'm saying is that we don't want to fetishize these guidelinesk, do we?
2007-06-06 08:42:03
430.   monkeypants
427 In the meanwhile, I posted a response that addresses your question. You are correct, you do need to look at the team as a whole: but just because you have plus players at some positions does not mean that you "do no harm" by playing a negative player at another position.

And it is dead wrong that the team is not suffereing from the lack of production from Minky, but from Abreu, etc. They are suffereing from a lack of production from anyone who is not producing. The outs that Minky burns are just as valuabel as the outs Abreu burns. Indeed, since even the best players will make outs, you need to seed the roster with as many good hitters as possible; ergo, there is no room for starting Cairo, especially at a position where he greatly mitigates your offensive advantages at other positions.

2007-06-06 08:53:51
431.   weeping for brunnhilde
430 Huh. I mean, of course you're right that the best team is one where 9 guys hit .400 rather than having 8 guys hit .400 and the ninth guy only .350, but come on.

What you say is perfectly rational, yet it seems like there's a fallacy there, though I can't put my finger on it.

Maybe the problem is that your expectations are too high, that you'll settle for nothing less than all-stars at every position.

I don't know, if the rest of the guys hit like they're supposed to, I really think this team can win with Cairo/Mientkiewicz.

They won with Brosius hitting .230.

2007-06-06 09:01:32
432.   monkeypants
431 Wrong--I do not expect all stars at every position. But there is no need for a team to play an astoundingly subpar player at a position when presumable a replacement level player can be found in AAA or on the waiver wires. Miguel Cairo is statistically among the very worst hitters in the league who is not a pitcher. There is just no argument to start him at 1B outside of some catastrophe.
2007-06-06 09:14:52
433.   weeping for brunnhilde
432 Fair enough, so what are the team's other options? Who do you have in mind?
2007-06-06 09:31:42
434.   weeping for brunnhilde
432 I mean, I understand Cairo's not the optimal long-term solution at 1B, but honestly, if he starts for the next few weeks, I really won't sweat it.

If everyone else hits, he's not going to bring the team down and I'm happy he's on the team in the role of backup, provided that he makes all the plays.

2007-06-06 09:40:51
435.   RIYank
A team could be so good at hitting that it's going to score 7 runs/game even with a weak hitting 1B. Even in that case, replacing the weak hitter with a good one will increase scoring, increase winning, increase chances of making playoffs, and so on.
Again, it may be that sometimes there is no good alternative. But a weak-hitting 1B is a worse thing to have than a weak-hitting 2B, in any case, and that's the point about corner infielders. (I think we're better with Phelps at 1st than with Cairo, but that's a separate question.)
2007-06-06 09:52:59
436.   weeping for brunnhilde
435 Right, agreed.

"Even in that case, replacing the weak hitter with a good one will increase scoring, increase winning, increase chances of making playoffs, and so on."

But this was my point about a line-up of .400 hitters save one, who only hits .350, and about wanting to have an all-star at each position.

I just can't get too worked up over Cairo's playing because to me, he's the least of this team's concerns, as was Mientkiewicz.

And for aesthetic reasons, I actually like having an underdog to pull for.

2007-06-06 09:56:13
437.   weeping for brunnhilde
435 Perhaps we're better off with Phelps at 1B, but honestly, I just can't stand watching poor defense. It just kills me.
2007-06-06 09:57:05
438.   monkeypants
{433] 436 Sorry--away from the desk, not ducking the question. This will get be some flak, but I would have called up Andy Phillips or (more likely) give Shelley Duncan a try for a couple of weeks. I am convinced that either would outhit Cairo (Andy did last year despite being awful) and if you want to pull for an underdog, Andy and Shelley both fit the bill!
2007-06-06 10:01:26
439.   RIYank
It seems to me that the biggest concerns must be the players who 'give away' the most. I mean, suppose you could replace any one player. Surely it should be the one who could be upgraded the most. A corner infielder who can't hit is a very good candidate for Most Upgradeable. And in this case, I think it's true.
Compare: Melky still isn't hitting too well, but now he's playing cf. That's a position that's very hard to upgrade to a good hitter, so (since Melky does field well) it's not a big concern.

I think you're looking at the matter like this. Which is better: having a second baseman with a .900 OPS and a first baseman with a .750 OPS, or vice versa? And the answer, of course, is that they're equal. It's just that in the first case you really ought to be looking around for an upgrade to your first baseman, while if it's the 2B who doesn't hit well you ought to leave things alone.

2007-06-06 10:05:45
440.   weeping for brunnhilde
438 I could be down with that. Phillips can field, so it wouldn't torture me to watch him.

What about Shelley?

2007-06-06 10:08:15
441.   weeping for brunnhilde
439 Clear, thanks.

I'm not against looking for upgrades, to be sure.

Certainly. But as a temporary solution, until said upgrade is found, playing Cairo out there doesn't scandalize me, is all.

2007-06-06 10:09:18
442.   Ben
Torre will always rides the hot hand. I'm sure he's said it himself, you play two guys at a position and hope one gets hot. You play him until he cools off then hope someone else gets hot. This is definetly true with relief pitching.

Cairo contributed offensively and defensively last night. I think this will be convicing to Torre, and maybe to Cairo too, that maybe they can ride a wave. I wouldn't be surprised to see him playing again tonight.

(Maybe Cairo will even be a hot hand wave that torre can ride... sorry for the bad metaphors.)

2007-06-06 10:48:15
443.   weeping for brunnhilde
442 Ha ha ha haha!

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