We're fucked.

I nominate 1 for 'Most Creative Initial Post in a New Thread' for this year's Banty Awards ceremony.

I try.

A new thread!

Ok, since I've been ranting and raving about fundamentals, let's try an experiment. Let's watch our heroes play with an eye to fundamentals.

Let's try to keep a tally of whose baseball is more fundamentally sound and what the value of fundamental baseball might be.

1 Not my choice of language, but, still, sums it up nicely. Is it just me, or, with the exception of a couple guys, this team has no sense of urgency at all?

4 Great idea about tracking the fundamentals this afternoon, unfortunately I've got to experience the ballgame through Sterling and Waldman, who are just fundamentally stupid.

What I discovered while making a blog post this morning:

For the last 10 games:

Jeter and Posada: 29 Hits 63 At Bats 10 RBIs 10 Runs 1 Homerun .420 Average
Everyone Else:.....52 Hits 259 At Bats 24 RBIs 30 Runs 6 Homeruns .201 Average

So umm...if other people could pick up some slack, that would be super.

If you are interested in seeing the numbers in a pretty table they are on my blog jeteupthemiddle.blogspot.com

1 Pretty much. The Wild Card is still out there because the Yankees are not going to play this poorly for the whole season, but unless there is a miracle, the division is already lost.

7 Holy crap. That's awful.

Kinda like the postseason last year. :-P

8 I can't even say that. Sometimes teams suck all year for no good reason. There's no good reason the 59 Yankees were as bad as they were.

Phelps is getting the start at 1B.

Johnny Damon CF
Derek Jeter SS
Hideki Matsui LF
Alex Rodriguez 3B
Jorge Posada C
Bobby Abreu RF
Robinson Cano 2B
Josh Phelps 1B
Darrell Rasner P

well, the Red Sox are currently spanking the Braves to the tune of a 10-0 score. So, if the Yanks lose today they could very easily be 11.5 games out by tomorrow morning.

I think I just threw up in my mouth.

Sox massacring Atlanta, 10-0.

12-0

Did ANYBODY see the Sox being this good?

15 Not this good, but good. Along with Mike Plugh, I always thought that Matsuzaka would be very good and help out the team that got him a lot.

That's the thing, he's underwhelmed, until recently, but everything else has gone their way.

1 is pretty hard to disagree with....a lot of people, I think, saw the Sox offense as potentially pretty weak: Manny and Ortiz and half a season of Drew. Lugo, Pedroia, Crisp, Lowell: a lot of names that didn't impress when compared to the guys in our lineup...

Glavine doesn't loom particularly good. We need to hit him early.

Another STerlingism I hate: "beating a fallen horse." It's "a dead horse," and for very good reason. There would be a point to beating a fallen horse - he might get up. so why does he go out of his way to say something that stupid?

Yay, a run.

19 I hate watching Glavine: when he starts getting the called strike 4 inches outside, I lose my shit every time--

That Progressive commercial is bothersome.

david wright reads lineup. -blech-

aw fuck.

Pasta Divingjeter.

i want posada to throw out reyes for bragging rights alone.

So much for bragging rights.

The Keystone Kops.

Crap. Hit in the hand.

ok. rasner gets hit on hand? i can't even stand to watch this one unravel. i am going to write a paper. be back in the third or fourth.

31 I almost wish I had a paper to write.

awesome.

Of course.

Put Villone in.

Hell it doesn't matter. Put Farnsworth in.

Whoa. MYERS? They're sending the loogy out to be the long man?

oh for fuck's sake--I blame Rasner for that; that just looked like lousy fielding on a medium-hard one-hopper....pathetic!

aaaaaaaargh, you've got to be kidding me!!! This is so sad and pathetic that's it just simply comical now.

Sometimes it is just not your year.

I guess Myers is in because he went 4.0 innings in that blow out that one time.

In this case, I would rather Villone come in while the game can still be one.

I am not saying I am opposed to Myers coming in to pitch 2 or 3 innings later in the game, but at this very moment, I would rather Villone.

If anyone says "It can't get any worse", I'm gonna smack 'em...

Stop trying to pick him off and just blow the game already.

I guess we now know the roster move to get Clippard onto the 25 man roster.

43 I just had to laugh out loud at that, literally...

41 Oh please. You really cannot think that Villone or Myers makes much a difference.

42 I've got a sinking feeling that it can.

47 Me, too. That's why I don't want anyone to jinx it ;-)

46 Well not much of a difference, I just think that Villone is more used to going multiple innings at a time and would rather he be the first come in with Henn not with the team.

I'm not adamant against Myers pitching right now, I just think Villone should go first.

You are probably right though, ultimately it probably doesn't matter.

Myers has a lazy pick off move. Has he ever picked off anyone?

Good thing Myers kept trying to pick off Chavez.

Ballgame.

Well, that was easy.

Boy, was that a meatball.

That was a terrible throw by Cano.

Cano, Cano, Cano...

They're not looking so great on the fundamentals.

Keystone Kops.

Hey Robbie. If you're going to kit like Manny Alexander, you need to stop fielding like Manny Ramirez.

And Godzilla just turns and watches it leave the park. Doesn't even give it a courtesy chase. Leiter wouldn't be happy.

Error for Robby. Minky would have gotten that one...

59 No need to waste the three steps.

Nice, Bobby. The game is still close.

59 What is Matsui supposed to do? Chase the ball into the wall? The Yankees don't have enough players hurt?

61 I'd love to see some indication from them that a 3-1 game isn't out of reach. Right now, that looks insurmountable.

you know, after that last season, I wanted to love Robby, but I'm gonna admit I don't like him: I think he's a lazy ballplayer: I've seen more throws like that than I can count.

Cano makes up for stupid error.

All is forgiven, Robby.

See, thats better.

Nice. Those home runs do serve a purpose.

Everyone use that bat. Please.

.....20 more of those a season, though, and I'll put up with the damn throws-

Cano makes up for his bad throw. Good job.

62 Al Leiter says pitchers hate it more than anything, when the outfielders don't at least pretend to chase the ball. Even if it's 50' in the air and 600' out of the park.

Of course they don't expect anyone to run into a wall. Just a "courtesy chase," that's all they ask.

I had never realized that until Leiter said it.

72 Matsui would probably sprain his ankle fake running after a ball that landed in Manhattan.

That pitch that Matsui grounded out on appeared to be outside.

And yet he tried to pull it.

Bad fundamentals.

74 If only we had Bubba Crosby.

Pull him. Send Cairo out there.

It's a three-ring circus.

Reyes is fast, but he's not that fast.

What gives, Robbie?

I don't understand--1st and 3rd, one out, the steal is a CRUCIAL play, and we basically let Reyes have it?

Endy hits, in the words of what's-his-face the broadcaster, "Another floater into left."

Fundamental baseball.

This team is in-fucking-furiating.

Maybe Cano can just run up and kick a ball next inning.

I am just seething with the glee the Fox team has about the Yankees troubles. Ken Rosenthal was smirking the entire report about Rasner's hand. One more run and I bet we get close ups of Cashman and a GRFX showing how much money they spent on Pavano and Igawa...

81 To be fair, I think someone should remind Cashman how much money he spent on Igawa and Pavano every day. But not now.

According to Peter Abraham at Lohud Yankees Blog:

"UPDATE, 4:28 p.m. For those of you interested in media gossip, Suzyn Waldman screamed at Christopher Russo for about 10 minutes before the game outside of the WFAN booth. She was furious at how Mike and the Mad Dog made fun of her call of the Roger Clemens announcement at Yankee Stadium. An eyewitness told the LoHud Yankee Blog that they thought Waldman was going to slap Russo."

I wish someone had recorded this and put it on youtube. LOL!

hooray.

Yeah, Jorgie!

thank you, Jorge!

Yeah, Jorgie and Matsui!

82 I agree... but it's one thing for us to complain about it, we're family... when Fox does it it just pisses me off...

79 Mmmm, need to be careful on what you consider "fundamentals."

83 I keep hearing about this business with Waldman, but I didn't hear it.

Could someone offer a synopsis?

Thanks.

90 Listen for yourself it's amazing...

got to this link...

http://www.wcbs880.com/pages/425245.php?contentType=4&contentId=473221

THEN:

Click on the link on the right-hand side that says "Roger Clemens is Back!" Listen to it.

90 http://tinyurl.com/2sejxt

ESPN plays Waldman's screeching sometimes because it is hilarious. If Suzy had slapped Russo, there would have been a collective cheer in NY, but she would be forced to apologize so good thing she did not.

Rasner has a fractured right index finger so he is probably out for a while.

I'm fairly certain I will not be appearing in the 2007 Allstar Game.

Oh good. A Carlos Delgado infield single.

I didn;t mean infield

That about sums it up.

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST

6-2. This one's over.

wow....you know, complaining about the media is fine and all, but we are LEGITIMATELY laughingstocks right now. we're a joke.

Anyone warming up in the pen?

Here comes Vizcaino.

At least the Pepsi commerical on FOX was interesting...

101 Laughing stock is being generous. This team is an embarrassment. It'd be a hell of a lot easier to watch if they went down fighting. Instead they're kicking the ball all over the field, knocking it over the fence and sleepwalking at the plate.

Why even bother guys? If you don't want to be there, go the hell home.

104 I thought that was pretty amusing.

Melky would've had that one.

Cano's given up an inning's worth of outs in this game...and we're only in the 3rd...

Maybe Robbie can have NINE screw ups today! One for each inning! Great job there!

The Yankees were interested in Easley?

My head just exploded from that Easly story... I guess he's smarter than 90% of all baseball experts...

The Cashman closeups have begun!

I hope Jim Dean heard that Easley story. He chose the Mets over the Yankees, and it had nothing to do with money. Just further proof that we have no idea what goes on behind closed doors.

We've been "waiting" for that update?

105 Torre has taken a lot of flack for his bullpen moves over the years, but, in my opinion his single biggest weakness is being unable to motivate the team when it is down.

I think Torre is far from being a bad manager, but to me this is a glaring weakness. We saw it against Boston in '04. We saw it against Detroit last year. The Yankees get down and fold like a cheap suit. And we see it day in and day out this year.

Yes, the Yanks have caught a lot of bad breaks this year. But a Manager should help motivate a team in order to weather the storms. I just don't see that happening.

"Bad Breaks?"

They've played like shit.

116 the question is, when they went through the pitching injuries were they this shitty team and the injuries covered it up? Or are they just playing through a shitty streak, but on top of the slow start because of the injuries, it makes it look like this team never had a chance to be good this year.

115 Rubbish, pure rubbish. You are trying to blame Joe for the poor performances of flawed Yankee teams. When the Yankees were at their peak, they lost lots of games and didn't fold. They fought back against Atlanta and from other bad times over those season. This loser's lament that is pervasive is unattractive.

I found this quote hilarious:

He once hit a home run with a broken bat. I asked him, "Manny, you broke your bat on the pitch, right?" And he says, "No, it was broken before I went up to the plate. I just like that bat." -Sheldon Ocker, Akron Beacon Journal

I do blame Torre for that 04 ALCS. I can't blame him for everything else yet.

Hmmmm... I think that if Cashman sent every single member of the Yankees down to AAA and brought up the entire Trenton roster, the Thunder would play better then this team is now. I think the Thunder would actually execute fundamental baseball.

-Today's Game-

Mets
Sac Fly: 1
Sac Bunt: 1
Stolen Bases: 3
GIDP: 0
2-out RBI: 2
Errors: 0
Men LOB: 6

Yankees
Sac Fly: 0
Sac Bunt: 0
Stolen Bases: 0
GIDP: 2
2-out RBI: 0
Errors: 2
Men LOB: 12

118 I'm the loser? Excuse me, but it was JOE TORRE who said last night that he was only disappointed in the result and liked the effort the team was putting in. Listen, I don't support calling out individual team members in public, but if you can't even challenge them to pick it up...

I think the single most infuriating thing, for me, about the Yanks over the past 5-6 years is how consistently shitty the bottom 6 guys on the 24-man roster are....(this digression sponsored by Luis Vizcaiano)

why the hell not.

Man, its a good thing I keep missing large parts of these games, because the stuff that keeps happening really doesn't seem possible

If I heard a Yankees suck chant right now, I wouldn't even bother to disagree.

125 Zack, maybe it's your fault - if you weren't missing so much of the games, they might be doing better.

YOu know its a problem when our only options for long relief also happen to coincide with the Joe Torre push button BP method. I mean, there is no way this team can possibly wina game in which Myers and Vizcaino pitch to more than one batter. And then, sicne Vizcaino sucks, it will be Villone. And then Proctor, and the entire rest of the BP.

Interesting. Shawn Green swung at 3 balls and still managed to get the run home.

Cano is pissing me the fuck off.

127 Nah, I tried the whole "watching and listening to the game" thing as well, and they seem to be doing about the same. AKA, crappy. Does anyone have any confidence in this team whatsoever? I mean, even on the days when we can count on a good pitching performance, like Pettitte, I STILL have no hope for even a decent game...

131 None.

ok, so if Roger were to phone up and say "sorry, Cash, fuck this, I'm staying home", would the Yanks bother to sue him for breach of contract? discuss...

133 If I were Cash, I'd just say, "I don't blame you. Just please don't go to Boston? That would add insult, man."

I blame Torre for global warming.
I blame Cashman for world terrorism.
I blame ARod for everything else.

I'm guessing ARod will get the hell out of Dodge next year.

131 Actually, I have great confidence in this team. As soon as they fall behind, I'm completely confident they'll be unable to catch up.

122 I shouldn't have tacked on my "loser's lament" comment in my response to your post. I didn't mean that you were a loser as much as when a team is losing fans look for excuses that don't hold water.

That win vs. Chicago seems like it happened last season.

137 Good point. I suppose we should be very confident in this team's ability to be utterly boring and not very good. Its like all of a sudden the offense morphed into the Orioles...

Do you think Joe has any actually plan/strategy for helping this team? That is to say, does he do anything to try and right the ship, or is it just the, "they'll work themselves out of it themselves by going about their business?"

141 I stunned that you actually think that anything can be done.

Curious if Clemens signed with the Sox if people would be talking about the whole, "pitching in the AL East" thing...

Why the heck did I decide to turn this game on after seeing the score? As if McCarver/Buck would make my day BETTER? shudder

Cano is having a day for the time caspule...

142 Well that was sort of my point too, as in, could anything actually work on this team?

Oh my God this offense is so self-destructive its not funny. I really just don't see how its possible for a whole offense (save two) to simultaneously suck at once for so long

106 Pepsi spot aired again. I was halfway expecting Damon to be called out this time...

I mean, even if it makes no difference whatsoever, shouldn't they fire Kevin Long, jus tto at least show that, you know, something isn't working?

That dp Cano just grounded into?

Why'd he try to pull that ball?

I swear, if someone would just teach these people to go the other way it'd be a whole different ballgame.

147 Or at least break a finger going in head first into home.

147 LOL! Sad that he only scores in commercials.

144 It could have been Miller/Morgan or Berman/Sutcliffe, so count your blessings...

But, yeah, these two will make you want to jump off a roof, too...

Even the Met's acting jobs are more convincing that our team's actual at bats...

This feels worse than losing 5/6 to KC and the Brewers of old.

150 He probably tweaked his back doing that damn spot!

Too bad Damon couldn't hit pause there and get under the ball.... oy...

That was a horrid route by Damon

And why the heck is Endy Chavez hitting like Edgar Martinez against us?

148 They fired Mel and the pitching didn't improve. They have fired multiple hitting coaches and the poor trainer. I really think that it is time to stop scapegoating coaches/trainers.

Poor Johnny D. I think that he was just playing too shallow there.

154 Yeah, I'd take one of those 17-1 beatdowns from the Red Sox over losing to the Mutts. Better keep my mouth shut, because we'll probably get one of those in a few days anyway...

158 Its got nothing to do with actually thinking that the batting coach makes any difference, and more to do with the fact that it sure ain't working now, so a change can't possibly hurt, even just as a symbolic gesture...

159 Don't put that thought out in the universe.

161 With the way they demolished the Braves, who is currently a much better team than the Yanks right now, today? I'm just glad I don't live in Boston.

To be fair, the Braves were throwing out a crappy rookie and Mark Redman, and some other dude with a 6 era, which is never good for your odds of winning...

Remember the good old days when game threads used to generate 700 comments and we could just say, "It's only April and the pitchers have been hurt"?

160 I could have sworn from all the diatribes on this blog over the last few years that coaches actually do make a difference. In fact, new coaches are like magicians who wave wands and improve player's performances.

Regardless, I'm not supporting firing people for purely symbolic purposes. Firing someone effects their reputation and their families' lives.

Who would have thought that the AL East would be by far the weakest divison record wise thus far?

165 Hitting coaches may or may not make adifference, I happen to think they really don't so much in season. Other coaches and the manager do...

However, as for the second argument, firing is part of working. YOu can't be a nice guy in business, and thats what this is. If something isn't working, you take measures to fix it, and sometimes those measures are symbolic. On a baseball team, if they aren't hitting for awhile, the major change you can make is firing the hitting coach. Family or no...

Are you watching this offense? Its terrible, and has been so for over 12 games now, with no sign of getting better, only worse. YOu simply can't sit back at this point and let them work out of it, its too late for that.

164 It was only about six weeks ago when everyone was pretty pumped about the season. We welcomed Andy back, got rid of The Unit, Sheff, stocked up on younger arms, and began to almost kinda take Pavano semi-serioulsy again. Even more than the 'hamstring incidents', no one even considered the possibility of 90% of the offense going into and staying in the tank.

We're looking up at a comeback for the ages now, all things considered. If any roster can do it, it's this one — but only if they SNAP THE F#CK OUT OF IT!

167 What exactly do you think that a new hitting coach can do to fix this offense? Is he going to use a hot prod on Abreu to get him to hit? There is nothing to be done, but wait for the Yankees' hitters to get hot. The up and down offense is part of the long baseball season. Unfortunately, the Yankees are falling further and further behind Boston. The Yankees' playoff hopes lie with the Wild Card and improved starting pitching which includes Clemens.

I have to say, I was never really pumped about this season. I'm usually pretty positive about the Yankees. I never gave up last year. Heck, I was never really in doubt last year.

But this year... It just seemed like the Sox had made much better moves than we had. The pitching especially.

I didn't expect the offense to tank quite this much, though. Though I guess the postseason last year should have been fair warning.

169 As I said, whatever happens, it won't be worse. Our starting pitching hasn't been thr problem, and the signs of this offense don't point to up and down, just down. Abreu, Cano, Damon, Giambi, Minky all haven't really done much all season save for flashes. All save Minky have variosu reasons for their funks, and Cano and Abreu relate directly to mechanics and approach. Thats what a hitting coach can do. A-Rod is having similar problems of late.

Look, I'm not saying I have anything against Kevin Long, I'm just saying that the status quo isn't working and something has to change to have any shot even at the wildcard, which we are already 7 games out of. That could be 10 games really quickly. So the whole up and down of the season thing doesn't really work right now. You need to shake things up to try and save the season, and, as I said, the way you do that on offense is with the hitting coach, cutting a guy or two, bringining up a player from AAA like Shelly Duncan.

Rally! 4 more runs to go.

GOod thing Shoenweis is in in pooring rain, eh?

Hey look.

The offense can score.

Of course, it is starting to really pour and I wouldn't be shocked with a rain delay.

170 OK, maybe not everybody ;-) But I think the general consensus was that how we played would determine the outcome of the division. Few thought the Sawx would bust out at a .700 clip, as they had as many question marks as the Yanks. Their pitching? Yeah, with DoucheK, they were given the edge, but who saw UpperDeck Beckett at 7-0? Most Yankees fans were praying JD Drew would sign with them.

I thought we improved from the point of the ALDS. So far, I'm dead wrong...

Hip, hip, Jorgie! Rally! 3 more runs to go!

Oh, I am sure Farnsworth will respond really well to these weather conditions...

I turned the game back on to see two HR. If anything could save this team, its a big come back.

171 Well, I am being overly optimistic about the Yankees winning the Wild Card anyway. Honestly, the season is probably already over for the Yankees.

A-Rod homers. Bobby walks. Could this mean...

177 Let's hope he gets the chance...

181 I never hope Kyle Farnsworth gets in a game.

If cano was a little faster he would have had a hit.

Man that ball by Cano just seemed to die on the dirt, huh?

Free Josh Phelps!!!!!

182 Can't argue there. The thought was that we tie the game...

Easley looks like Jesse Orosco.

Phelps with a double.

8-6 now.

Giambi pinch hitting.

186 And he would immediately give up three runs.

Rally! 3 more turns to win!

Bad swing by Giambi there

i think cano's front leg is farther out away from the field than he usually/used to have it. when he straightens up right before the ball gets to the plate, he loses the foundation from his back leg and can't drive the ball. (of course, i could be waaaaay off...)

come on, johnny!!!

come oooon.

make it a 1 run game.

Just a single Johnny.

165-169 Thank you for a small voice of sanity in a pool of scapegoaters and blamers. It is indeed depressing to see the Yankees play so poorly. However it is much more depressing reading this blog and the number of people who think they can analyze and 'fix' every move, every swing, every out this team is producing.

This is a very bad, teamwide slump. It happens. It's happened many times before, and it will continue to happen.

Our pitching has been good. Our injury luck has been terrible. Our offense will snap out of it. We will make a run at the division and/or wildcard.

193 or just tie it up! : )

ok.

here comes Jeter.

captain clutch! c'mon buddy

Now lets ALL send Jeter some positive energy and see if we can salvage this game.

on a side note, I can't believe how hard it is raining in Flushing. I am about 3 minutes away from Queens and while it is damp outside there isn't any rain.

200 Your screename will do nicely right now...

That was his pitch.

would you send Damon?

stupid jeter.

Tease.

Crud, well, that was fun while it lasted

Darn. One more inning to complete the rally.

@##$! But, hey. Signs of life. Maybe the worm is starting to turn...

Where are the sunshine boys? Definitelt no optimism on the Banter today.

208 They fought back. That's a start.

OK, Mattp — here we go ;-)

209 Barely over 200 posts for a Mutt game? We usually hit that before the first pitch. The bandwagon is finally thinning out...

Woudln't be a Farnsworth outing without a walk.

Well, looks like another typical Farnsworth inning...

Uh-oh. Another Mutt shoe polish incident. Who polishes their shoes today anyway?

175 I didn't see Upper-Deck Beck at 7-0, but I did think he'd be a lot better this year. In fact, when ESPN did that "predict the season" thing, I picked Beckett as "bounceback player of the year." I think he was just really unlucky last year. I forget was his flyball to HR ratio was, but it was something really crazy and fluky.

And I wasn't too happy with our starting pitching, though I'm not criticizing Cashman for not doing more. It's not like good starting pitchers grow on trees.

209 I'll be honest. This game is far more encouraging than some of the others. They're going down fighting.

So this David Wright fellow.

Is he Barry Bonds?

209 Yo I believe that's me (Chyll Will, get on the Banter for the symphony >;)

I had a nice long rant ready for people to ignore, but Ol'Yank reminded me of something principle... most of these guys have been good for a while, how could they possibly crap out all at once for an entire season? Unless the decision-making has devolved into Steve Phillips-type organizing, this is a team that will eventually pull itself together and make a good show. All it really needs is time. Can't help the bad luck, that happens to EVERYONE. This team is better than it seems, and I think even the other teams are waiting on that. Can't blame them for trying to take advantage now, what else are you supposed to do? But our time will come back soon. There, optimism reborn?

i don't like the 2 out IBB, to anybody less than early 2000s Bonds...

I like Franco.

in fact I'd NEVER use the IBB with Farns pitching...

There you go. Just ignore the men on base.

Farnesworth, please be careful.

195 Thanks. My minor contribution. The Yankees will not struggle like this for the whole of the season. They will play much better better baseball for long stretches over the coming months like they usually do. However, unless Schilling, Beckett, Matsuzaka, and Wakefield go on the DL at the same time, the Red Sox are not going to collapse. The Yankees's best chance to reach the playoffs is the wild card.

Yeah, Farns can sure kill momentum, eh?

222 Agree.

Oh good God.

Why the fuck would Cano try and throw it from that position?

That was atrocious.

Cano shouldn't be allowed to play tomorrow.

Cano needs to spend 2 weeks in Scranton.

Robbie, you are having a rotten game.

I would ask what the fuck that was, but honestly, I don't care anymore.

Just when the team seems to start maybe showing some life, in comes Farnsworth and our fielding to right the ship...

when we lead the league in homers and runs, we can get away with this horseshit in the field--but there's no margin right now...

In related news, can we finally get rid of Farnsworth? PLEASE?

216 Actually, maybe Cashman should get some kudos for the fact the we have had 7 rookie pitchers (and an 8th tomorrow) and came through it decently.

Robbie.... oh my.
Robbie.... oh my.
It's pretty wet out there.
I guess today's not our day for a miracle.

228 Because the inning would be over if he somehow makes it. If not, the 2 guys score anyway. At 10-6, who cares if Franco reaches second. You have to try to make that play, regardles...

Rain and Farnsworth would obviously not mix, yet there he is...

234 Nope, The Yankees needs someone who will retaliate and can actually fight when needed.

Well they scored 4 in the 8th.

They can score 4 in the 9th.

Right?

Right?

::crickets::

238 That should be "need" not "needs."

Guys - it was a cheap ground ball, on a rainy day, that found a hole. RCNB. You can't beat it... only hope it goes your way.

238 I don't see why Bruney can't step into that role...

Yunnow, I suggested a vacation for Cano before and was fried in used chicken grease for it. If it's as bad as you described, then he does need a two-week vacation in Scranton or somewhere. Seems like Torre used to do those kinds of things, why not now?

In completely unrelated news, I saw Buster Olney on ESPNews talking about Miguel Cabrera. Boy, has he put on weight. He almost has a double chin. He needs some serious conditioning work in the off season.

234 I'm not defending Farnsworth in general by any means, but today the one walk was his only mistake. Bad managerial move with the IBB, and he got the ground ball to get out of it...

235 We came through what decently?

242 If Bruney can fight, that totally works. I like Farnsworth because he is huge and can fight.

Nothing like swinging at the first pitch to start a rally...

245 The groundball was a clean basehit that Can almost saved. He blew the game, as is his specialty.

245 Plus you ignored his lovely holding on of the runners.

Rally! Come on, Jorgie.

245 I thought that Kyle was okay today also.

Here we go, Yank-ees. Here we go!
Keep the line movin', Hip Hip...

238 Are you honestly asking for Karim Garcia? (wonder if Strawberry can still play...?)

How many inches... or FRACTIONS of an inch, was the difference between that ball breaking Rasners hand, and not?

How many inches... or FRACTIONS of an inch, was the difference between Damon catching that ball and it being a HR?

How many inches... was the difference between the laser Matsui hit, that was caught, and it being a hit?

How many inches... was the difference between that ball Cano couldn't turn, and it being an out?

We can say how 'bad' this team is, but sometimes a few inches determines the outcome of a game. It is pure dumb, blind, fateluck.

235 I like what Cashman's doing with the farm, and I give him credit for not trading the kids away as has been done in the past.

But I'm not sure it's a recipe for winning this year. And I think a lot of people really, really wanted the Yanks to win this year. Even more than usual, what with Steinbrenner ailing and Torre probably on his way out. One last hurrah, if you will.

251 He gave up a basehit with runners on second and third.

235 Came through it decently? With standards like that, I can understand your optimism.

235 Came through it decently? With standards like that, I can understand your optimism.

254 i got into an argument the other day with someone here about luck, saying that luck was hurting this team a lot, and him saying nonsense. So, you know, be careful :)

250 Soooo... do we try to hold runners close or forget about 'em, and just go ahead and blow a game. I'm confused...

Wow, what was Wagner doing there?

I was about to curse Cano again.

254

With all due respect...This team is bad.

254 Please. That's the cop out excuse that losers use to explain why the lost. All the could have beens would have beens mean nothing when a team is trying to win.

Wow. A Jorge Julio moment for Wagner! This is getting interesting...

Yess!!! An error.

Jorgie is hitting out of his mind.

256 Well, Kyle is never perfect.

Game's not over yet. Let's go, Yankees!

Ugh. I hate to say this, but I'd rather have Miggy up now than Robby.

Prove me wrong, Robby. Please prove me wrong.

262 Except that woulda been silly as he wasn't even the batter.

257 I ahve absolutely no idea what he could possibly be talking about.

At least we dont the the 'stupidest play of the game' award.

268 I thought it was Cano too. They look a lot alike.

Home run, Robbie, do your bit to help.

Cano, that sucked. Period

Mr. Cano...the next train for Scranton leaves in 2 hours.

266 He's rarely any good.

Ok, NOW I can curse Cano.

Robbie got robbed.

Robbie and that high fast ball.

I'll accept a losing season if Jorge can hit .400--it'd get him in the hall, after all....

270 Don't be so hasty.

Robbie, don't listen to these fools.

Game

Well, that was fun. Or not.

Saw that one coming.

What are we now? Seven under and 11 back?

Oh well. Unfortunately, they play again tomorrow.

Sooo, what do you say, 14 games our after the Boston series?

Yep...the Yankees on the verge...of a cliff that it.

285 Hey now. The could win. They usually win one.

Congrats Willie! You are now the manager of the best team in the City.

What a headless at-bat >:'

Well, was that enough grit and heartiness for you all?

277 naah; close pitch, but Robby needs to learn whining to the ump ain't gonna make up for fielding like a chump--

289 Now? A month and a half late.

291 It was like the return of Bubba.

Thank God I bought the Extra Innings package, at least I don't have to watch these bums play when there are so many other choices.

From Lohud:
UPDATE, 6:00 p.m. Rasner has a fractured index finger. He will join Hughes, Karstens and Pavano as starters on the DL.
I'll guess that's 6+ weeks?

I have to give them credit. They went down fighting. And if we didn't have a bum for a set up man, the ninth may have been more exciting.

291 They made it interesting, at least.

Poor Robby. I think he's taking his struggles at the plate into the field with him. I seem to recall that the same thing happened a couple of years ago.

At least he didn't GIDP. I was afraid he would.

298 Some of those mishaps were laziness.

293

I was holding out hope. I haven't been posting here because I have been trying to stay positive. But that feeling is gone.

The team is just plain bad. And as for Cashman not tradding youngsters. Which 28 year old career minor leaguer is it that he stood firm on? With Hughes, Rasner and Clippard being the only guys with a snowballs chance in hell of earining a MLB job, it isn't exactly rocket science not to trade players that not even the Nationals want.

Lilly, El Duque, Lieber, among others, are all guys Cashman should have kept or signed. I wish people would stop making this guy out to be some sort of genius. If shortsightedness is genius, then yes, he's a genius.

That was like coming in from a hard day of chores to find the last slice of pizza was gone hours ago...

Adjusting my rose colored glasses here, they didn't mail this in after being down 8-2. What, you say? They're highly compensated professionals who should never, ever 'mail one in'? Agreed. Only that's exactly what they seem to have been doing over the last 10-15 games, and they didn't do that today. It's gotta start somewhere, even in a tough loss. Let's see if this carries into tomorrow...

302 I agree.

300 Which genius would you have replace him tomorrow?

300 A lot of other teams were fully expecting Cashman to trade not only Hughes, Duncan, and/or Clippard, they asked for Wang, Cano, and Melky, too. Heck, some are still expecting it.

Lilly, Lieber, etc., there's some doubt that Cashman was the brains behind those decisions. I don't think he's a genius, but I do think he's doing things differently. We'll see how it works out.

Sigh.

I don't really understand the Lilly love.

Why do they always come here? Do any of us go around trolling for booty on other teams' sites? That would explain it...

The only positive that could come out of the team falling out of it completely (which I'd say is probably more likely than not at this point) is Cashman wont be tempted to trade a prospect for a quick fix.

It's been a theme of mine a lot earlier than this game, but I now have serious concerns about Cano's future. I don't think you can simply pencil him as an All Star 2B over the next 6+ seasons for the Yankees. He has regressed and needs to make some serious adjustments. I am not convinced he can. If he can't turn the corner, that could be one of the biggest blows of this season.

312 What have the Mets won?

313: The last two games?

Well, the effort was valiant and it's nice the boys at least went down fighting.

Arod's broken-bat, opposite field single was nice, a good sign.

And Hideki hit pretty well, hit a ball or two hard the other way, though he still tried to pull outside pitches.

Jorgie lost track of the count whilst on 1B.

Not good, but he gets a pass from me about those things because that's kind of just who he is, and always has been.

And as to Hideki's swinging at that first pitch there in the ninth, I can live with that given who's on the mound. That was probably the best pitch he'd have gotten to hit, so rather than waiting around to be buried with the slider, he took a whack.

That was a pretty sensible approach, I think.

And Giambi's first swing, the really violent one, was poor. He tried to pull an outside pitch.

What if he'd just stuck his bat out to redirect the ball into left field?

310 More than that, I would hope he would start cherrypicking the guys he knows have a future in the league and start seasoning them for the long haul. Let Damon rest as long as he wants, let Matsui learn first or something, rebuild your BP and bench with some long-term prospects (like Melky last year) and retool. Swallow some bad contracts in the process, at least they won't hurt the team on the field, and who cares about the money at this point besides the rag columnists... but that's only if they do fall out of it... which I don't necessarily think they will...

315 Ah...so I'll take that as a nothing? Thanks for playing.

I always remember an interview that Steinbrenner gave to one of the NY tabloids years ago. The reporter asked him about the Yankees owning NY. Steinbrenner responded that he didn't feel bad because when he first bought the Yankees, NY was a Mets town and no one would give the Yankees the time of day. He said that it was all cyclical. Who knew that Steinbrenner had a talent for prescience.

312 Suit yourself. All I say is what goes around comes around and leave it at that >;)

Heh-heh. An honest to goodness Mutts 304 troll. Refreshing. But the D-Ray posters were more entertaining.

312 Looking forward to your primer on how to live with losing. Just in case, ya know? It's been a long time on this side of town.

319 I think the Mets actually have to win something before the bandwagon jumpers head back to Flushing. New York is still by far a Yankee town and will be until the Mets win a World Series and the Yankees have a long-term dry spell.

311 William, do you see anything in particular that suggests he can't or won't adjust?

Or are you just losing patience?

Personally, I can't believe someone could just totally and irrevocably lose his game after playing so well for so long.

I agree with the person above who thinks Cano's problem is mechanical, but I also think he's trying to pull the ball more than he did last year. He still hits those long fly balls to left, which is a good sign, but it seems like he's maybe a little power-happy.

I don't know.

316 "What if he'd just stuck his bat out to redirect the ball into left field?"

I get the impression Giambi would pull a hamstring just thinking about it...

324 ha ha ha ha ha ha ha hah ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!

You may be right.

302 I don't believe they are mailing it in. I think there's something about looking around at a clubhouse full of All-Stars and not understanding how this could be happening...again...and again. They know they are bad-ass on paper. They know the expectations.

If we fielded the Banter softball team and won 4 years running we'd probably be shocked too if we lost to the Sux Bloggers after adding more top talent to our roster. Humans are funny when their perception of their grandeur doesn't live up to the reality.

There's probably a whole series of stages for how this develops in one's psyche. I'll save the discovering of it for one of you psych students out there.

It's shock, not lethargy, I think.

I think Cano will be all right. He went into an extended slump his first year, too, and got out of it. He's shown he's willing to learn and make adjustments.

323 Last year, Cano was an agressive first ball fast ball hitter and he seldom missed hitting one hard. This year, it seems as if he NEVER gets a first pitch fastball. Instead, he is getting fed a steady diet of off speed. When he does get a fastball, it's above his head or outside...and he swings more often than not. In order to adjust, Cano needs to lay off balls of the zone and work himself into a fastball count. He seems unable or unwilling to make that adjustment. Because he never showed great discipline even when he was hitting well, I have serious concerns about his ability to make this adjustment. It's been 1/4 of the season and he has been absolutely, Tony Womack style awful. As a result, I think Cano "can no" longer be considered a given. After all, he hasn't performed so well for so long. He really has only had 1 1/2 seasons and only for a few months last year was he very good.

327 Its not even witty. At least the Red Sox fans are clever.

309 Brah — and I don't need to tell you this — there's baseball... and there's Yankees baseball. It's a New York thing, and west of the Hudson they just don't understand... the Mutts are 'Associate Members' right now. Ten more titles from the Queens team, and maybe you have a 'negotiatin' factor here' (apologies to John Musacha)...

331 I should hope you weren't.

The Knicks own the what-buiding now?

I love David Justice on YES...he really pulls no punches and serves as a nice breath of fresh air among the Yes men.

Lol...love the Kids on Deck promo..."What are Wil Nieves favorite two words"? Cut to Nieves..."You're out!"

Yes...I can see why he'd be familar with those words.

Guys, the obvious reason that Cano is slumping this year is because I dropped Utley as my keeper in favor of Ryan Howard (another brilliant move by me) and drafted Cano as his replacement in my fantasy league. Meanwhile, the one Red Sox I took a flyer on in like the last round, Youkilis, is tearing it up. I am cursed, cursed I tell you!

327 Oh, is that all it takes? Whatever, expansion team...

331 Yes is airing Game 1 of the 2000 World Series...as you enjoy these epic regular season victories, you might want to relive a little recent history (although I realize Mets fans aren't keen on history).

332 (well, you gotta give it up to some of the peeps in Joisey...)

Forget Lilly, Lieber and Igawa, the Yankees should have signed Gil Meche.

329 I think that's a strong analysis, and it rings true.

I tend to agree with randy 328 that he'll be able to adjust, but your point is well-taken.

Acquiring the plate discipline he'll need is probably a lot harder than simply altering one's mechanics.

Reyes managed to develop in that area, so maybe Cano can too.

336 Oh sportsline says so...in the case...Next.

336 Dude, at least 1) don't post such a goddamn long article 2) come up with your own words 3) Don't post articles by a writer for Maxim who doesn't know anything 4) wait until at least August to toot your horn. I mean, hey, last season sure ended well, huh?

I really feel badly for Rasner. I think he will be a solid, useful major league pitcher. It's really a shame he is now likely out for the year.

344 He could have been a cost-effective Ted Lilly or Gil Meche... (sigh)

91 92 Thanks, that was pretty on the over-the-top side.

Wow.

343 Easy, Zack. He's a Mutts fan. He can't be expected to know that a simple link reference will do, let alone tinyurl.com. Plus, he can't articulate it for himself, so he looks for the words of others. No surprise he chooses a writer who knows less than him, if that's even possible.

He'll disappear in a day or so, then we'll hear it from Beantown. At least a few Sawx fans who enter The Banter demonstrate brain cell activity...

347 Heh-HA! Who did she sound like the most?

A.) Nell Carter in "Ain't Misbehavin'"...
B.) Rosie O'Donnell on one of her Trump Rants...
C.) Fred Flintstone, "eeeeYabba-Dabba-DOOOOooo!!!"
D.) All of the above
E.) ________________

349 ha ha hahaha ha!

:)

I'll go with C.

And did you notice how Sterling had to be obnoxious and cut her down to size? "Well, I don't think he's going to pitch next week, so the Yanks still have to find a number five." (Or whatever it was he said.)

He can't stand it when she grabs a little of the spotlight or offers opinions, observations or insights that she hasn't run by him first.

349 The other day I caught a few minutes of their broadcast and a splinter of the bat was evidently stuck in the batter's eye (Jorgie, I think?) and Suzyn was like "Hey, a splinter of the bat got in Jorgie's eye, that's terrible."

And Sterling was like, "Yeah, well, something's going on."

Suzyn: "Right, a splinter of the bat was lodged in Jorgie's eye, I see it on the monitor here."

Sterling: "Yeah, well, whatever's going on, the Yanks can't afford to lose Posada."

Suzyn: "For Christ's sake, there's a fucking bat shard lodged in the man's eye, why don't you believe me?"

Sterling: "Well, Suzyn, it can't be a bat shard, can you imagine how bad that would be? I mean, after all, a hitter needs his eyes to see the ball. A bat shard in Jorgie's eye would really spell trouble for the Yanks, especially with the kind of tear he's on right now."

What's the over/under on number of times this guy wet himself during the 8th and 9th innings? I mean, he clearly overreacts to everything.

Hey buddy, remember when the Mets swept the Yankees last year, and then the Yankees, despite playing in the major leagues, finished with the same record?

Your um, humor, doesn't really hurt when most people around here acknowledge that the Yankees suck right now.

351 I would pay good money to hear Suzyn Waldman say, "For Christ's sake, there's a fucking bat shard lodged in the man's eye..."

Sterling thinks the only partner worthy of sharing the booth with him is his coif. The only entertainment I ever got out of him was when he used to go at it with Kay. You put a no-nonsense guy in there with him like O'Neill or Al Leiter and they eat his lunch. And you know he'd call the police if David Justice was in there with him. Didn't he put a hit out on Charlie Steiner? Not that he needed to, since he was equally and unequivocally as bad as Sterling. You can never have two Sterlings on the same broadcast, even he knows that.

353 Ah, the dark days of Charlie Steiner and Raul Mondesi.

Remember good old Raul?

Those were the days, huh?

I've asked this before and never got a response: Do Yank fans around here go to other teams' websites and act like tools? I can't see how that would even be enjoyable. Just boring.

354 Who is Raul Mondesi?

meh, even that sucks... wasn't he the leftover parts God didn't use for Manny Ramirez?

355 Yeah, I asked the same thing and all I got were crickets and vomit. Well, at least the crickets didn't go hungry...

355 It would never even occur to me to do that. Though I think some of the YES board fans troll the Sox boards sometimes. Probably middle-schoolers.

355 Negative.

355 No self-respecting Yankees fan would be caught dead doing that...

356 LOL. Sh*t, you have to blog, brah. I'll sign up...

This board needs an ignore feature. There are several new members (along with the lame-o trolls) that I would love to hit the ignore button on.

From Lohud:
The bad news just mounts for the Yankees. Darrell Rasner will need surgery on his finger and will miss at least three months according to Brian Cashman.

355 Honestly, the only time I'm ever on another team's website is when the Yankees aren't doing well. I avoid those boards when they're playing well so I don't come off as a troll.

361 I get ignored without a button. More to the point, I am an ignored feature >;)

360 In the immortal words of Knuckles, "I'm on it..."

364 LOL.

360 I'd sign up for that one also. You could call your blog, "Crickets, Crickets..." ;-)

362 Wowzers. Our pitching staff seems like they're pitching in a meat grinder. Well, better now than four months from now? Although if we fall out of the race, I'd like to give Jeter the rest of the season off so he doesn't feel like he's wasting his time...

365 Now that's a good one >;) Everyone can come to my blog and ignore me as you discuss statistics with acronyms that are ripe for satire...

So...any word on who's going to take Rasner's place?

368 T-Clip?

Another positive from the game: They hit the lefties pretty well. This Phelps kid should be playing more often.

I really think that if Dazzle doesn't take that liner off his leg, the Yanks actually win this game.

Also, this might've been mentioned, but apparently the Sox can lose, and lose big. Whoopee?

Giambi is signed through what, 2008? I smell a Todd Helton trade in the works. Giambi at 1B, Helton at DH? I like the sound of that. It might not be optimal, but we are going to have to bash our way into this race, there just isn't any pitching out there that wont cost an arm and a leg. Hell, how about a pitcher with one healthy arm, and one healthy leg?

I'm sure this has been covered, but what was Giambi thinking? I understand his sentiment, but what he really said was "I'm an 8 Mil. per year player, but hell, I decided to steal 70 Mil. from the Yankees.

I don't think the Yanks are out of it quite yet. There is still more than enough time to get this thing clicking.

Anyone think Hunter is worth making a run at next year? I would say no, but can Melky take over full time in 2008? Ugh! Crawford?

Does Cashman dare trade for another bat? At least we've found out that our best minor league pitcher less Hughes, is 45 years old! Those minor leaguers we just couldn't trade, well, they stink. Cant trade Cano, well, at least not right away, until we find out what he has long term. Will Abreu ever get it going? At least Jorge is shutting up all the "he's washed up" Yankee fans.

Can't fire Joe, unless we want Clemens showing up once every 5 days. What to do, what to do? Wait it out and hope for the best?

When Ron Villone is back on the team, I don't think it bodes well for the season.

What a mess.

Nope. Clippard goes tomorrow (poor kid, good luck and ferchrissakes, if you're gonna break a leg, don't break your own!) and Clemens in a little more than a week.

That means either Chase Wright or Igawa are the most likely replacements, unless a scrap heap or indie league signing is in the works. And although it would be unacceptable, it would be reasonable to suspect that this kind of bad luck has a lot to do with the Yanks' spirits appearing drained. Even when they fight back, they get smacked up with more bad karma. Although you have to give Cash some credit now for restocking the farm, all things considered.

371 Did you ever think about who would replace Cashman when you were ranting about him earlier? Stick would seem the obvious choice, except that Rubensteinbrenner hates him for not properly kissing his butt for the last ten years.

I think whomever takes over after Cash and Torre are in for some of the worst times of their lives if the rest of the hierarchy remains. They're just as complicit in chasing off some of our best baseball people as George. Call it the Zim Factor.

369 Yeah, I was thinking about Phelps. I'm not sure what I think about him. His swing's actually a lot shorter than I was expecting, given his frame, but still, the frame does bother me.

Hard to see him being consistent with a frame like that. He actually reminds of that guy we had last year, the one from Detroit. The righthander who struck out 160 times one year.

What the hell was his name?

Anyway, that's who Phelps reminds me of.

But who knows, I'm for giving him a chance to show what he's got.

FYI, I banned the troll in this thread. I've been out travelling, so I haven't been watching in recent days for such behavior. If there have been any other such trolls recently, drop me an email at support2007 at baseballtoaster, and I'll check 'em out.

Same goes for future reference. Don't respond to them, just email me, and I'll get rid of them.

Wow - the Daily News has it that the Yanks are thinking about voiding Giambi's deal.

I wonder if they'd do it in the middle of the season, but they'd almost have to since the remarks just came out. I'm sure it's easier to do now with the team so far out of it, but what if they're five back in a month?

Meanwhile, didn't they take steroid-specific language out of his 2001 deal?

371 Helton is an above average 1B. So he'd play there. But yeah - I can see them making that move as they cut Giambi and battle over his contract. That might be the thinking. Then they could continue to rotate the OF's through the DH slot and give Melky some AB's.

Cut Mghdkdg and call up Thompson and that's a workable bench with Phelps as a PH for Melky in late game situations.

374 Acquired from Detroit, or born in Detroit? I'm drawing a blank too.

Marcus Thames, right?

Oh, never mind, he's the one we sent to Detroit.

Even with his health problems a few years back, Giambi has been a 900+ OPS guy, and is typically the teams #2 producer.

If they are trying to void his contract NOW, that is a real stab-in-the-back. And if they try and can't, what does that do to Giambi's motivation?

They should not fuck with Jason. Even as a DH he's worth his contract. What, ditch his, spend the same 15+ million for another big bat, and hope that guy can produce in NY?

What a mess.

381 Really? He's worth 21 million this year AND next year? Plus a 22 Million in 2009 or a 5 million buyout?

When he can't stay healthy?
When he can't play the field?
When he can't play in the interleague games?
When he lied his way into that big contract?

Nah, get rid of him. If they cut him now, they'll save over 35 million. That would help soften the blow of Helton's contract. There at least they're getting an .900 OPS guys who can play defense. And they're not clogging the DH slot.

BTW: They're only thinking about voiding his contract NOW because he finally admitted to being a cheater. He was honest, but he shot himself in the foot.

382 There's no way they'll be able to void his contract. They'd have to show that he used steroids while he was with the Yankees, and he hasn't said that specifically.

383 I think it's doubtful too. But it's not a bad idea, like 381 is implying.

378 379 Wilson, of course. It's Craig Wilson I was thinking of.

386 This publicity alone could damage Giambi's productivity. If the Yanks actually do try and take action, they will fail, and the year will become about this issue.

Maybe it will be ugly enough to help encourage ARod to opt-out.

Yes, Giambi is overpaid. But we know what to expect, he's made it in NY, and he is still a .900-950 OPS guy. He will be gone after 2008. The LAST thing we need is for NY to enrage the steroids issue, with one of their own at the center of it.

384 Well, there are at least three ways it could be a bad idea. If the Yanks need Helton that badly, then swallowing his contract this season is not going to make a difference, and they can try cutting Giambi during the off-season. Money is going to be a key issue no matter what with Mo and Jorge looking for extended contracts at the end of this season and of course whatever Alex does... but messing with Giambi now can be disasterous if:

A.) He reacts to these actions badly and they hinder his performance throughout, effectively poisoning the lineup and the clubhouse.

B.) His teammates react to the actions badly, turning the clubhouse against management and dooming the season and perhaps the organization with implosion.

C.) Creating a poisonous atmosphere within the clubhouse where factions for and against the move battle with each other and imploding the team while undermining the authority of the coaches and long-time vets.

Of course, it could go another way depending on the way his teammates feel:

A.) They could use it as a rallying-call to support their teammate and battle their way back into the race, solidifying their clubhouse (though poisoning their relationship with management and unless they win it all, setting themselves up for corporate backlash from the top)

B.) Or, they could pull a Boston and rally with the new guy in tow, punching their way back into the race and eventually winning against the odds.

And that's only if they make the move in-season. This smells like someone trying to cover their asses for making bad mistakes, but as JL pointed out you have a guy that normally produces versus a guy that normally produces in a highly questionable atmosphere (my point) who may or may not continue on that track. I don't mind Helton replacing Scrabble and/or Cairo (we have others in the system that can do what Cairo does for less and are younger), but replacing Giambi straight-up with Helton in-season? even if you could make that kind of move, there are so many variables that can make this a panic and/or disaster move that you have to wonder if the problem is really not in the clubhouse at all?

(Naturally this is all speculation, based on what, the Daily News? Bleh.)

385 Why did we let him go? And why is he suddenly available again?

387 The Yankees let Wilson go because he sucked last year, and the Braves released him because he still sucks. Too bad; I really wanted him to be halfway decent. I'll stick with Phelps.

I also think it's a bad idea to try to void Giambi's contract, basically for the reasons given in the last couple of posts. First, it's easy enough to focus on his limitations, but he's still one of the best offensive players on the team, and not easily replaced. (I'm not at all sure that Helton, out of Coors, will suffice. He'll also probably refuse a trade.)

Second, if they can't get away with it, it's a terrible idea to try. They'll get lots of bad publicity - and it doesn't matter whether it's the front office or Giambi that gets the bad press, it still hurts the team. It risks creating bad blood in the clubhouse, which is the last thing this team needs. And it accomplishes exactly nothing.

Except: if they think they can use it as leverage to get Giambi to waive his NTC, maybe it's worth it. But if I'm Giambi, I definitely say Screw you to that.

386 You're talking to yourself again, Ol'Yank! >;)

And not for nothing, but the whole steroid issue is a farce with baseball trying to duck-and-cover while the big names on teams with troubled seasons are taking all the heat. Look at the Mets, for example. They have another minor leaguer suspended for testing positive for "performance-enhancing" drugs, right on the heels of yet another in their system who was suspended a second time for the same thing. Not to mention back-loading Guillermo Mota's deal so that his financial hit for being suspended for his steroids issue is minimized. Then there's the thing about the clubhouse guy who confessed that he distributed steroids while he was there and is forced to deal with the same investigating commission that baseball is trying their damnedest to ignore. Yet if the Yanks try to break off from Giambi, it's inviting steroid catastrophe to New York?

It boggles my senses that ownership is virtually getting a free pass on this issue, yet they are the ones who systematically ignored the facts and perpetuated the motivation for steroid abuse by awarding players with obvious issues with Richie Rich contracts and hope they can produce before the truth gets out. Gordon Gekko runs baseball. The fans pay billions of dollars for this, yet this has nothing to do with us per se. The steroids issue is not going to go away anytime soon, because then you'd have to banish or lock up a lot of the management and ownership. Then the economic impact on the country would be "compromising", and you know that no one wants that. So, it neither starts nor ends in NYC, yet it's more interesting to fool us by blaming Bonds and Giambi for it all than for the owners and agents, et al who perpetuated it.

(as standuptriple would say, /rant)

Theres no way the Yanks would be publicly trying to void Giambi's deal anyways. The fact that only the Post has picked it up should tell us something.

In any case, I opened my New York Times this morning, and the Sports section is halarious. Not only do they lead with an article about the Yanks/Muts right next to another lead article about how the Sox show they are rolling as is DM by drubbing the Braves, yet right below the score they show that the Sox lost game #2 14-0! Nope, no mention of that in the article, jsut that the Sox are rolling and can't be stopped blah blah blah.

THen there is the good old Murray Chass, with his article on how the Yankees using so many rookies shows that they in fact have failed to have any contingency plans in the form of pitching depth as we throw these rookies to the fodder. Clearly, as we all know, he is an idiot. I'm not sure what having so many rookies to throw out there and pitch pretty darn well is if not pitching depth. I guess the Ol' Chasticle pines for the days of Erickson, Ponson, Small, Chacon etc.

In any case, thats how bad things have gotten. The Times has finalyl openly declared its Sox loyalty, which it was clearly just waiting for the right moment. The News is printing bogus stories about voiding Gimabi's contract which make no sense. It will be a long long season of all of these reporters finally getting to express their Yankee disdain...

390 It's good you don't read the trash that much. The local tabs have been openly disdainful of the Yanks since the 2000 series when they manhandled the Mets. It's just now that they've gotten the balls to publicly bury them, what with all the money they're bleeding in revenue and profits to the internet and specialty TV channels and mags, it's tough to be an editor these days, I imagine. As with the Times (minority owners of the Boston Red Sox), well anybody who believes that section of the paper probably thinks Rupert Murdoch is trying to buy the Wall Street Journal to preserve a historic franchise (just like he "saved" the Dodgers)...

It's all good, though. If the Yanks end up being the 2004 Red Sox for some strange reason, there's gonna be a lot of 'splainin' to do >;)

And as for having a confessed cheater on the team: if they lived with Gary Sheffield for three years, they can tolerate Giambi.

How is Giambi "proven"? If anything, he's exactly what's wrong with the Yankee lineup. He walks or hit homeruns. There's nothing in between - no situational hitting, no moving the runners over; he can't steal a base or hit and run with him. The guy hasn't hit over .271 in five years (2002). And he's consistently hurt.

As for the nonsense about the clubhouse effects - winning changes everything. If the Yanks made some moves that turned the team around, no one would be complaining. Besides - Giambi opened this up. And he's now making more than Jeter - is that fair? Because he's a cheater?

Yeah I cheer for Giambi, but I wouldn't be sad to see him go. At least Helton is a gamer. And 388 - here are his current road numbers: .359 .451 .538 (91 PA) - I'd take that thanks - esp if it means he comes a discount AND they can apply the 35+ million owed to Giambi.

Actually, if they could manage to cut Giambi - it would make too much sense:

1) Giambi is owed about 40 million (contract and buy out)
2) Helton is owed about 90 million (contract and buy out)

Even if Colorado agreed to throw in only 20 million - they'd be getting him for five years at 30 million. Given that he's an above average 1B and he is a great all-around hitter - it would be an amazing pickup even if he's only productive for three of the five years.

But alas, I do agree. Voiding Giambi would be a huge headache, esp since the MLPA would fight hard.

I'm looking forward to a younger, healthier 1B too. But, this is not the way to go about it. It most certainly is not the right time either. Giambi is popular amongst his teammates and amongst players in general from what I understand. How would this help make the Yankees a more attractive destination for FA and particularly for any FA who has taken PED? Doing this now we'd only further disrupt the team from its goal while sending a resounding message to all player including the presumably large pool of players who have taken PEDs. The Bronx would not be a favorite destination.

393 You and I both know the Yanks would be nailed to the cross for anything they do concerning Giambi, right or wrong, at this point. I wonder why they chose now to address the issue with Giambi, even if Giambi was the one who opened his mouth. Unless they already have a deal in place or in principle, this seems like a big boner all around.

395 Actually, I'd be more interested in the guys who would say "Geez, a team taking a stand against PEDs" - you know hard core baseball guys like O'Neill.

397 "...you know hard core baseball guys like O'Neill. "

Such as?

398 That's the problem - these days I have no idea who's PED-free. But the point is: I wouldn't be concerned about scaring off PED users - indeed, I'd be delighted if that was a side effect.

For all we know that side effect might completely shut us out from the FA market altogether. Or worse, yield more Scrabblelikes.

400 Sorry I'd rather die with honest players than win with cheaters. And me, I feel like the dynasty died when they started signing guys like Giambi rather than promoting guys like Nick the Stick.

Being shut out of the FA market would actually be a good thing. Next year what - overpay for five years of Andruw Jones or Ichiro? Or worse: Tori Hunter?

No thanks.

401 Granted, but how can we tell which ones are honest and which ones aren't, outside of some of the more obvious ones (apperently George and Co. knew of Giambi's issues and chose to ignore them, IIRC). Are you saying you suspect Jermaine Dye, Ichiro, et al to be users, and if so by what evidence? (which happens to be a crucial issue between the union and MLB if they're actually serious)

And if these GMs are overpaying for players like that, who's holding the gun to their heads?

390 "It will be a long long season of all of these reporters finally getting to express their Yankee disdain..."

What?

They love drama and when there isn't one, it helps to stir one up. What else is new(s)?

Yanks being 10.5 games out - that's plenty of fodder for any story. All they have to do is answer X:

What's wrong the the Yankees?

X.

An easy way to make your living.

The Yankees can't do anything, but wait out Giambi's contract which is an albatross around their necks. I supported signing Giambi at the time, but it was a huge mistake and nothing can be done about that now.

In the meanwhile, Giambi should keep his mouth shut, try to stay healthy, and hit. I find Giambi's half-assed apologies annoying and pathetic. People obsess about Bonds, but I prefer his arrogance to Giambi's pretense at remorse. Giambi is a cheat who is only sorry that he got caught. He should shut his mouth about who should apologize and not embarrass himself or the Yankees any further.

402 Oh, we can't. Just that if PED users are scared away from the Yankees - me, I think that's a very good thing.

And no, I'm not sure who's a user. But I think signing FA guys like Jones, Ichiro, and Dye is a big mistake - they'll be very overpriced while past their prime.

My view is: if they have a clear need (like RF next year) - they should trade for help by moving some of the talent from within the organization.

Save the FA dollars for the kids that reach market early, like Beltran or Santana or Teixeira, and still have an upside. But those players are rare. Or for salary dumps where it's a nice deal, like Abreu or Helton, with either the years shoert of the dealing team picking up some of the money.

404 Turnabout is fair play, huh? Last year, Giambi criticized one of his own teammates for doing the same thing with the press, particularly when he was going through a long, rough stretch. Not that I suspect anyone to be laughing under his breath (but could you blame him?)

404 That's the question: Can the Yankees do anything? If any team has the money and power lawyers to fight the MLPA, it's the Yankees.

I don't think it's so crazy to think the Yankees are exploring their options now. They may not do anything this year, but maybe they could negotiate a buyout in the off-season and get the MLPA to swallow it even if it is a bitter pill. WHo knows? But I don't think it's a crazy story at all, esp. since they've already explored this path.

Too bad they couldn't show Pavano is a cheater.

BTW: Big Unit with 10 K's through 5.2 IP (2 ER) today.

Has "I told you so" gotten annoying yet?

405 I quite agree in principle, but I can't think of anyone who would want to trade their young RF to the Yanks for prospects the Yanks don't intend to use on the ML level anytime soon, and then where does that leave legit prospects like Tabata?

Part of the problems the Yanks have had is that they gave bad contracts to players already in their peak or past prime at a time they had nothing coming up to replace those FAs when their contracts were up or their effectiveness wore off.

Had Cash's approach been implemented before 2001, the Yanks would have much more leverage now with FAs and perhaps you wouldn't see so many bad contracts around the league now. But mainly because of Tampa's meddling, you've got the current pragmatism that can easily backfire at any moment. I blame short-sighted egotism for the Yanks' current issues. But it is what it is and we can't ever get those years back. The best thing to do is ride it out and solidify your core players instead of patching holes every year. That would probably require a fundamental shift in philosophy back to pre-2002 standards by upper management, but I don't know how likely that is at this point.

405 I don't think it will have that much of an impact. If the Yanks don't throw $$ at PED-using FA's, someone else will. They by and large stayed out of the fray this year, and still some mind-boggling contracts were given.

WRT steriods, PED's, or whatever they're called this week, I've been fairly indifferent. Given some of the players the Yanks have employed over the years, they have a hard time taking the moral high road.

408 Actually, that's the first time I've heard it this season. But how come we don't remember him doing that here? Granted, he was expected to do that every time he went out to the mound, but I don't remember the last time he had a day like that in pinstripes. As for Pavamunch, bad luck in the signing, but poor judgment in signing him on spec in the first place. Be happy for the big tickets they haven't signed since (Schmidt, Zito?) And why care if you didn't sign Lilly and Meche? Would you pay $200K for a Ford Taurus? Some would, but why us, because George has a lot of money? It's not my money, so I won't spend it for him, but that's extremely bad capitalism.

411 Well, he was hurt last year - and he still managed to throw 200 innings while keeping the Yanks in most games.

Meanwhile, on the season:

Unit - 30 IP 37 K 7 BB

What did the Yanks get for him again?

412 I dunno, JD. If he'd been that good from his first year, it wouldn't be an issue and he'd still be here. The main reason the Yanks took what they could get, from my point of view, was because they were concerned about his health after off-season surgery and that his innings and wins didn't come in situations where they needed them. It's like how people accused A-Rod of getting big hits when the game was already decided. The way things are going, and knowing that Randy was never that fond of being here in the first place, would his current numbers change the standings that much? It's easy to speculate either way, but again that's the bad luck we have come to expect this season. If Roger gave you the same numbers in the stretch run, would it be a wash?

Again, Randy wasn't brought here and paid so much for 200 innings. He was here for 20 wins and at least four wins in the playoffs per season, which as unreasonable as it was to expect at his age, he didn't do. Arizona had the leverage and got the better of the deal so far, but time will tell.

413 You're not seeing things from the Dbacks perspective - they had exactly Webb and Livan in their starting rotation. They needed Unit much more than the Yanks needed to get rid of him.

I don't disagree that Unit didn't live up to expectations. But how many Yankee pitchers will give them 200 innings this year? He was a fine #4 and would have had a place on the 2007 Yankees. Or at the very least they could have waited until he was proven healthy and their own needs became much more apparent. They bought very high and sold very low.

I think the reality is: Cashman with all his newfound power was trying to undo the Tampa deals - Sheff, Unit, Wright. The one he made - Pavano - he had hrd time seeing how it wouldn't work.

Let me say it again, because I'm often misunderstood: I don't think Cashman should be fired, but he could do a much better job. At least people are finally starting to see that.

Christ, how did this happen again? Does anybody even care anymore?

415 And there you go continuing it again! Will does and I'd bet the many many Yankee fans now calling for Cashman's head.

What? Were you one of the lovers of the Unit deal? The first deal too? You seem particularly to want to put it behind us. Unfortuntely it says just as much about what gone wrong this year as anything that happened this off-season.

414 et's wait until the season is closer to over before the 'I told you so' season begins. To date the Unit is 1-2 with a 4.80 ERA (in a lighter hitting league), 5 GS, averaging 6.0 innings per start. In other words, so far he has been ...Darrell Rasner.

If RJ goes out and tosses 200 innings this year, well then maybe you can tell everyone so. Of course, if he throws 200 innings of 4.80 ERA and he is a glorified #4 starter, then it might be another story. Heck, in 1989 Andy Hawkins pitched 208 innings with a 4.80 ERA.

417 Of course you're right. But 200 IP of 4.54 ERA would be helpful to this team. But if he keeps up his 35.2 IP pace with 47 K and 7 BB, he'll be much better than that - i.e. don't hold your breath.

And look - my only real point is that the GM thought the 2007 team was set - so he stocked the farm and then signed guys like Igawa, Mghjkdg, Cairo and went with Nieves. So when he had a chance to improve this year's team, he punted. When I want to know what went wrong, I look first to that.

And worse, while I didn't have much of a problem with the Shef and Wright trades - it's shocking that nothing came out of them to help the 2007 club. The Unit deal makes that realization that much worse IMHO.

Now even if he had done more to help the 1b and bench, it's not like they'd be in first right now. But they'd certainly be better off. That's what irritates the shit out of me. This crap (Mhgghjkdf, Cairo, Nieves) was obvious six months ago. And yet they persist. So instead of addressing real needs now, they still have those doozies on the roster.

And so I have to drool at the possibility of dumping Giambi for Helton.

415,416 Don't get me wrong, I do care from an executive point of view, but I am far from ready to declare the Randy trade a loss for the Yankees, even if Arizona has gotten what they wanted from it. Randy's favorite years apparently came in the desert, so his effectiveness may be limited to his desire to be in that environment. If I had to choose from a health standpoint where in the country I wanted to live, the Bronx is not in my top ten. But then, there's no way to explain what's going on in a man's head but to take his word (or actions) for it. Jack McDowell was considered a premiere pitcher when he came to the Bronx, and when he left (middle finger extended), he was never again considered an ace, never mind a potential HOFer. Gotta live with the fact some guys don't do well here, and some guys avoid it like the plague.

That said, I'm rightly critical of Cash, but not calling for his head; just so that's understood. I'm all for giving him time to see his plan unfold, but I'm also for giving him experienced and successful advisors instead of the run-of-the-mill buttkissers George usually hires. He's still young and well-respected around the league, and don't think another club wouldn't try to snatch him up if he left the Yanks. He's got a few years for this plan to bear fruit, and it's way to early to evaluate the results of this off-season's deals. Time will tell if he's good, bad, lucky or unlucky. (With the fire-Cash logic running rampant, one must think that Theo is suddenly a genius again?)

418 But my point is only that the only reason RJ 4.54 ERA helps this team this year is because of the freakish run of injuries, which the stockpiling of young(ish) players was supposed to avoid. Put another way, RJ might have helped the Yankees, or he might have taken a line drive off his finger and missed a few months.

If the Unit can't give more than being a glorified #4 man, why pay him 17 million/year (or whatever) when you can find endless DArrell Rasners to do the same. Moreover, the deal didn't yield nothing for this year--it freed up some money that was flipped for Andy Pettitte (or if you prefer, part of Clemens).

420 That's all very true. But if Unit were starting now for the Yanks, you get at least three things:

1) More time for the young guys like Cippard and Wright to develop
2) Demand more in return for prospects (because he's proven healty) that could address needs on the 2007 Yankees
3) More wins because of the Unit's 6 starts he's had only two stinkers - one in his first start back, and the other against the Mets (in which he went 7 innings). He usually gave the Yanks a chance to win - and he's probably a bit better this year.

Whether the Yanks "saved" that money or pissed it away on Igawa, is sort of besides the point. Unit would have helped the 2007 team and more so than any starter not named Wang or Pettitte.

In that regrad he would have been a #3 (i.e. better than Mussina), and in the NL he may still show himself to be much more than that, esp if his current K:BB rate holds.

418 JD, I wish we could have it both ways, but it's damn near impossible considering today's market trends. You have to think of the future at some point, and the Yanks waited a long time before doing that which is not entirely Cashman's fault.

How is it that George, Newman, Mastro, Conners and Oppenheimer or whatever their names are, get off scot-free while Cash and Torre take all the blame for the direction this franchise went after 2001? George deliberately chased off Torre's closest confidants, hired scouts and advisors with proven track records of losing and insulated himself with well-wishers in his Tampa office. Meanwhile, all the other execs were playing CYA while the Yanks failed to win in successive playoffs every year. This did not happen overnight, and righting the organizational ship will not happen overnight either (people thought Kenny Williams was out of his mind until they won in 2005, and Detroit and the Mets have yet to actually win the World Series within the past 20+ years), so I'm not convinced that Cashman's decisions are the sole issue.

Why is it the end of the world having to suck this up for a season, as though we expect this to last for the next ten years? Bullcrap. Get your people with the program, or when the time's right, get rid of them. Now is not the right time for anything, though because it's too early for anyone to tell where they'll be by season's end (except KC and Texas), so hold on.

421 "2) Demand more in return for prospects (because he's proven healty) that could address needs on the 2007 Yankees"

Nope. Randy had one year left his contract, and then he would likely either walk or retire. Plus he had a no-trade clause in his contract, IIRC which is beside the point. The fact of the matter is, if Randy were in the rotation now with all the current circumstances in place, there's no way you trade your healthiest and most productive pitcher in the rotation while your team's in a rut. That's straight-up suicide. It's fairer to say that Cashman got what he could because Randy could easily have waited until the end of the season and walked away, leaving the Yanks with absolutely nothing next season. Who could have predicted all these injuries and bad luck?

422 Oppenheimer is actually Cashman's hand picked guy for leading the draft. And he hasn't done a bad job. Hughes has paid off, as has Kennedy and Joba.

423 I'm talking about trading him right now. See, they didn't have to move him in the off-season. The could have waited until now, and if they didn't need him and he was healthy dealt him. For instance, the Dbacks would have been just as likely to acquire him now as then. And Will, you're forgetting they did wind up with nothing. The deal would have only gotten better if they waited.

Meanwhile, folks forget (myself included) that they also gave Moose a two year extension. Right now, that looks like a bad choice as well. Any of the youngsters could give what he's giving.

424 That's assuming an awful lot, don't you think? If Randy is that effective in pinstripes, does he still want to leave before mid-season?

And I'm thinking long term, not right now. Olendorf and Jackson could develop in a couple of years. Vizcaino, that may or may not have been a mistake, but also may or may not have been key to making any type of deal with Arizona. But as far as need is concerned, yes, if he were healthy we would definitely have needed him now, so no trade. Are you thinking that would have impacted Roger's signing? I'm thinking the Yanks would have had to bribe him NOT to play for Boston whether we needed him or not.

425 Wasn't the second year an option? At any rate, Moose indicated he expected no less than two years and would probably had walked without it. It was supposed to be a bridge, but few of the rooks were supposed to be up here now. Hindsight of course is 20/20.

426 Of course it's assuming alot! That's the fun in my mad mind!

Honestly, I think he would have gone West whenever the Yanks brought him a workable deal. But all the evidence suggests Cashman went with the first deal rather than the best deal (and even then he passed on Micah). Why and to what extent only he and his peeps know.

427 True. And most (me included) called it a good deal at the time.

426 On the Roger front, that's even more iffy. As it was, Boston had no intention of signing him - don't forget that. That gave him a lowball offer - 4 million lower than his 2006 prorated deal from Houston.

Still, who knows? If the season played out exactly as it has, the Yanks still would have had the greatest need for Roger and so would have paid the most. And then they still could have traded Unit anytime before August for mid-season help.

That's really my point. There's nothing that said they HAD to trade him. Only that Cash wanted to.

How can you fault Cashman for resigning Moose, then bash him for trading Johnson. Moose hwo had a much better season last year, pitched 8 less innings, and has all of ten less innings this year. That doesn't make sense. They both of injury histories, they both are cranky, they both can be hit or miss.

And for the umpteenth time, you also can't have it both ways with your claims on who Cashman "could" have traded for/with, but also claim that "all evidence suggests Cashman went with the first deal rather than the best deal(and even then he passed on Micah)." The fact is NO evidence suggests that, and the ONLY evidence as to the Micah rumor is one source. There was also at least one source that said Cashman WANTED owens but was turned down. You can't pick and choose your rumors and facts, it doesn't work like that

And once again, as for Boston having no intention, thats flat out bogus. They wouldn't have spent so much time and money wooing him with videos etc. hell, Roger's agenet was in Boston being wined and dined that weekend. What they did was miscalculate the timetable, thinking they had longer to bid and up their offer...

432 Exactly. There is really a need to see the baseball world outside of the Yankee prism around here.

430 Like the Red Sox had no intention in signing Matsuzaka? Of course, the Red Sox desperately wanted to sign Roger. Not just because it is always good to have another starter, but because it would have mended fences with him and convinced him to go into the Hall with a Red Sox hat without a fuss. You obviously do not realize how important that is for any baseball organization.

JD discussing matters with you is an endless chore. You're right about everything, OK? You see things more clearly than everyone else here. That's a certainty. You're always steps ahead of the curve. Sheesh. Give it a rest. We know what you think and why. We could all write a dissertation on it.

432 True. Even Gammons reported that Boston had miscalculated on the timing, thinking that Roger was going to wait until June. The Yanks needed him more than Boston did. Why do people say this is a panic move? Because they offered far more than anyone else? Hello, Matsuzaka?

Also, I don't know if anyone has mentioned it further than our interest in Helton, but MLB.com is reporting that the Yanks are rumored to be considering a trade for Helton and the principle on this side? Farnstantinople.
Interesting?

434 Oh no. A J.D. in JD. I'll stop now >;)

Actually, I think he's been civil in this particular debate, so I don't mind this bit of back and forth. It's rather stimulating actually, as you can see I've been rather serious in my last several posts. More often than not he's ravenous and obstinate, but give credit where credit's due; he's behaved very well. I'm not trying to be condescending by the way... >;)

433 Jinx, yadda-yadda-yadda root beer and all that...

401 Then I hope you're also willing to jettison any players who have used corked bats, or scuffed a baseball, or used greenies (anyone wonder if that's why they look so flat this year?), or even turned a phantom double play. If not, you'll have to explain to me why this particular form of cheating is so much more morally abhorrent.

Did you have a problem with Gary Sheffield?

Actually, Jinx works like this here:

If two or more people repeat the same word and phrase within a tangent about the same subject in direct relation and in direct response to the same comment within 2 posts of each other, it's Jinx.

Whoever calls Jinx first on the other is owed a root beer by the jinxed person or people. If not root beer, a suitable substitution can be easily negotiated. Is that okay with everyone?

DO you really think RJ's 4.80 ERA in the NL would translate exactly to the AL East, I think you'd have to add probably a run to that. Hie ERA+ last year was 88 with the Yanks last year

His ERA + this year w/ the dbacks " 90 "

Also your whining about not getting anything to help the club this year sounds like typical short sighted thinking. If we didn't have that freakish run of injuries, we had more than enough depth at starting pitching. DO you really think Cash doesn't realize we had a hole at 1B ( between the 2 they have gotten league average performance from 1B ) and need a BUC?

Rj coming off serious back surgery is not a premium bargaining chip

436 I guess you're right. And it's great to have dissenting voices. This blog is a forum for discussion. But the "I told you so" thing was just too much for me. JD's way of presenting his arguments including the overwhelming number of posts makes me skip over what could be insightful analysis in other posts.

418 Oh boy... a new discusion.
Jim...
200 IP of 4.54 ERA in the desert =
180 IP of 5.40 ERA in NY/AL East
for $17,000,000.
You don't think (not accounting for broken bones) that we have 1 or 2 or 3 kids that can do that for pocket change?
Kids who will ADD to the clubhouse atmosphere?
Kids who we will be grooming for the future (whether it's ours or someone else's)?

WOULD SOMEONE PLEASE GET JIM HIS MEDICINE?

438 I figured as much when the ban was first introduced. Was it someone on the Yankees who speculated that the real effect of PEDs on the game would be obvious as the season wore on that year due to the ban on amphetamines?

As for phantom tags and double plays, one would have to blame the umps for letting those happen, no?

431 The point on Moose vs Unit is, based on performance, that it's a wash. Except one Cashman couldn't wait to get rid of while the other he could wait to give an extension. That to me is interesting.

Cashman traded Unit at the absolute loweast value he had. Even if Unit came to Spring training and showed he was healthy he would have had more value. Is that really deabatable? Really?

432 They went all out (like last year) until they started strong. To offer 18 million (4 less than his 2006 salary) suggests they just weren't that interested. Even Houston offered 22 million this year. For all you smart people, why didn't Boston even approach that with their offer? Fact is, they went cheap = they weren't serious, at least not now. Not that they should have been.

434 Tell me something I don't know. Or are you incapable of an original thought?

438 Meh, I don't know. I was even less a fan of that signing.

440 It's 4.54 and going down after today. And to repeat: a 47:7 K:BB ratio portends a very good year for him.

And I was never against trading him - just traded him and get something of value in return. They didn't.

And 442 when the Cashman moves coming? You did guarantee it afterall, and back in January.

441 Well, there was that >;) Too bad you missed it, but apparently the gang's back to bring it, so I'll lay back for now. >;)

By the way, has anyone seen that Gatorade commericial with Jeter and Harvey Keitel?

444 Yeah, JD. Highly incapable. I've been so overwhelmed by the sheer abundance of intelligence emanating from you that there's no room left for my own thoughts.

How about making your arguments without overtaking the blog? How's that for a thought? Sorry, if it's not my own. If it's not, well, see the above.

Crap, I forgot to sit Maine in my FB league. Oh well, I hope Tyler Clippard annihilates him.

At least we get to see Clippard tonight. He's supposed to have very good control. So it will be interesting to see if he pitches to his spots.

Is this our game thread tonight?

I saw T-Clipp in Scranton last Saturday. He looked good, but he never topped 88 on the radar. He had good control and seemed confident out there... we shall see how he holds up tonight.

BTW, that's the end of my discourse with you, JD. I don't want to overrun the blog with my feeble minded commentary. Thanks to everyone else for not making me feel as dumb as JD says I obviously am.

446 In case you missed it, Will and i were having a fine discusssion until the likes of you showed up, and with nothing to add might I add?

449 Mayhap

A-Rod's taking some good hacks against Maine here.

Looked like a strike from my couch.

Does anyone have any energy left? There is a game.

Matsui is getting hot. I'm not sure that was a strike that got Alex.

Let's go, Clippard!

454 Except when he doesn't.

Dammit Arod - that was the same pitch he threw for the second strike.

457 Still its a generous strike zone..
Lets hope Clippard gets the same..

i'm on the road at my dads and I was wondering if someone could e-mail me the good feed link for mlb.tv. blackouts stink. my email is jim @ blysonhill.net

thanks!

Funky delivery - step then fire.

nice start!

T-Clipp has a moment no one can ever take away from him... Love seeing the kids up here...

Hitting 90 on the ESPN gun

Wow. That was a close pitch.

Where was that pitch?

459 anyone got the link?

I went to Shea for the last two games, so I'm hoping that sitting on my couch tonight abd watching on TV will change the Yankees' fortunes.

Nice first inning for Clippard.

Whew, got away with a hanger, there... nice first inning...

Love that bottom of the 1st inning. Love it.

Love the curve. Admire the poise.

i'd love to watch.... :(

got it. THANKS! back to the family...

have fun everyone!

Hopefully we'll see T-Clipp's first MLB AB this inning...

Come on, Robbie! 2-1. Drive this one.

That 2-2 pitch was very hitable...

472 Indeed. Does anyone know how Phil is doing in his recovery?

Damn! Almost as almost gets.

Hey all.
Robbie's swinging well, huh?

C'mon Stink, get the run in...

475 PeteAbe reported he's throwing from the half mound. Still probably a month away as they'll take it slow with him.

YOU SUCK!

472 Perhaps we shouldn't have asked for this.

481 I have more faith in T-Clipp than Stink...

Tyler not known for his bat, I take it.

Well, I can't blame Clip, but that was definitely a wasted opportunity for the Yanks.

23mins until the Sopranos. 23mins until I get to ignore this team's problems for an hour...

Word is, George Steinbrenner said no comment on Joe Torre until after the Red Sox series. That sounds to me like we could have a new manager if the Yankees don't turn things around in a big hurry.

At least we made Maine work for his outs

So far, Clippard looks worlds better than DeSalvo. Maybe it's because he is.

And at least Clippard is providing some good news.

Who was I talking with in the off-season about how ridiculous it was that Clippard was rated below Cmahberlain and Kennedy in the Baseball America lists. Everything in the kid's record suggested he was legit.

T-Clip = Big Pimpin'. Anyone see that hitch as he walks around the mound?

Was.
Jeez, David Wright is a hell of a hitter.

I'm going to shut up now.

No shame in that, kid.

89 sown the middle. Command, Clip.

Boy the clock struck midnight, fast...

485 My saving grace yesterday was Ninja Warrior. Me and the wife found it on G4 - what fun.

I refuse to listen to this game and its annoucners, so I have it on mute. But man, this offense cannot buy a run, eh?

That was a weird last pitch and call out...

Maybe the Yanks should stop pitching to David Wright. That kid is good.

Man our pitching ends a lot of slumps. And, that's even when it's going well.

I love that the Muts can wear three different uniforms in one series at home. Expansion team...

In no universe should a hitter as weak as Damion Easley be intentionally walked.

Well, Wright wasn't really hitting all that well until we came into town. Figures

Torre looks like he needs to switch to chamomille. Me thinks he steps down before he's fired. That's if it comes to a head.

Ok, so I have been wathcing the game for maybe 5 minutes and they have spent all but 20 seconds of those either showing Wright or showing him hitting HRs...I hate ESPN

502 Not even the universe where the pitcher is up next?

Small strike zone for TClipp, eh?

Ooooooooh boy.

Oh crap...

Come on, kid. Pull yourself together.

502 Agreed. Let the guy pitch and stop dictating strategy from the dugout.

Please someone shut Joe Morgan up.

Wicked change.

But, in that universe, does the pitcher than gets a walk?

But, in that universe, does the pitcher THEN gets a walk?

This is fun. A pitcher with control issues, a small strike zone, and intentional walks. Weeee!

Happy ending.
Yeah, homer and then load the bases, that's the ticket!

He did well to get out of that.

Well, thank you Reyes for being as stupid as I know you are...

He got out of it. Phew.

Whew. Reyes bailed us out by swinging at a low pitch that looked like a ball.

521 Gameday has that pitch in the zone. Right at the bottom. Course, we still don't know how accurate that is.

On the bright side, another great start by Kennedy today

Need a baserunner so our 3baseman's homer counts more than theirs.

Joe Morgan is a fucking moron... earlier this year he was gushing about the Yankee offense, now, it's not as good because Sheffeild isn't there?!?!

How is Morgan going to wiggle out of giving an opinion on all this?

506 If they get Easley out, the pitcher leads off the next inning instead of Reyes. Also, with a young and understandably nervous pitcher on the mound, I'd be worried that it may upset his concentration and his control.

524 Nah, that could never be. Wright is the greatest 3B in the league, hands down, no competition, best player ever. Duh...

Wow, what was that Hideki?

Sopranos time... see ya'll on the flip side... I predict I come back to the Yankees up 4-3 in the top of the 5th...

527 It's a good point. What does the typical NL manager do in that situation?

Maine throwing a lot of pitches.

Damn, Jeter didn't score there??

And Jeter advances from second to third on the double!

Maybe we'll get two doubles and not score. That would be a curiosity.

Does Green have a strong enough arm to stop Jeter? I'm watching Gameday

531 The number 8 hitter is hitting number 8 for a reason, so while I don't watch many NL games, I think they don't ordinarily intentionally walk the number 8 guy.

531 I think it depends on a few things. First, if it's close and late then you have to issue the IBB and deal with the pitcher. If you're up four runs, obviously you go ahead and pitch to the 8-hole.
In this particular situation, tough call.

Oh, crud, bad K. Baaaaad K.

Terrible A-Rod, just terrible

Dammit Alex!

535 As if theres any doubt...Shoot, this team could find a way to get THREE doubles and not score

536 What happened was that Beltran dove for the ball and looked like he had a chance at it, so Jeter had to hold up.

So much for those signs of life. More of the same. Getting hits and leaving thos eguys stranded on base

To be fair, Jeter should have scored on that Matsui double. You go halfway and wait.

Cano hits a ball 2 feet foul that would have been a 3 run home run. Then M. strikes out.

Two straight doubles, no runs. Then Arod strikes out.

That's our season for you, fans!

They just cant catch a break.. its painful to watch

536 Jeter ran almost all the way to third then almost all the way back to second, then back to third. Terrible base running.

538 If it's close and late, you don't give out the IBB because (a) it's close and late and (b) someone will pinch hit for the pitcher.

542 It didn't have to hold up. In that situation, you go half way. There's no way Beltran is going to dive and then pop up and throw Jeter out at 2B. It was an absolutely awful baserunning play and it cost the Yankees a run.

The only good news is Maine has thrown 66 pitches through 3 innings.

546 It's not about breaks...it's bad baserunning and bad at bats.

I'm sure all the articles will focus on A-Rod striking out and won't mention JEter's baserunning though. Not that Arod doesn't deserve heaps of blame. How the heck can he be so bad after being so damn good?

548 Good point.

540 It looks like Arod is reverting back to last year's form, which would make this season even more miserable.

547 He actually only went back about three steps toward second, but then just jogged into third.

Did the Yankees just hit back to back doubles and somehow not score?

I have to give them credit. That's a special type of incompetence. Even this team, that specializes in sucking, hasn't pulled that off yet.

Lead off walk...is this the inning that the shoe drops?

556 Really? We hadn't noticed! Thanks for joining the fun though :)

Woah, nice pitching Ty!

And we didn't screw up the run down!

Sweet. Cano and Scrabble.

Sometimes we can field. Sometimes I just like this team a lot. (Mattpat11 and williamnyy23, keep trying.)

557 Great job by Clippard...I sure hope he can hit.

555 Okay, but that was after almost running all the way to third. And I'm calling four steps back to second.

560 Keep trying what?

So, I'll say it again, Murray Chass is a total and complete idiot. His article today was one of the worst pieces of anti-Yankee, no baseball intelligence drivel I have read in awhile

559 I like the way I put it, better. ;-)

560 Nothing like a team that does something right every so often.

Great job of looking by Bobby.
Maine will be out of here soon. But let's get some dang runs off him first.

562 Ha ha. Three, four, either way, it was too many in the wrong direction. I think we can clearly agree on that.

Man Abreu had a good jump there, oh well

A hit and run? Is that what those look like?

Hit & run works on the wrong count for it.

Do they feel they can run on Maine, or is this, well, desperation?

Good thing we ran there. It seems like when this team actually makes contact, which is rare, its these pathetic and weak swings that just result in lazy fly balls or weak grounders...ugh

571 Perhaps they were trying to clear the pitcher?

573 Uh.
Okay, what does 'clear the pitcher' mean?

Don Mattingly was teammates with a lot of the guys on the current Yankees team? Try again, Joe Morgan.

574 "Clear the pitcher" means make sure that the pitcher can't lead off the next inning.

Damn, Clippard is a better bunter than pretty much everyone on our team...

576 Oh, I get it.

575 Jeter, Posada Pettitte and Rivera.

Woah, look at that! A Break!! A BReak!

That was clutch.

That kind of hit is MORE satisfying that a ringing double in the gap.

Wait, I must not understand how the game works. I thought in that situation Damon was supposed to strike out.

Yay!

Finally!

He MADE those outfielders miss.

583 Or pop up.

I'll take it. I'll take it.

582 It is, the way we've been going, it really is. And then that Jeterian kind is really very satisfying indeed!

579 For about half a season...

DJ!!! Nice!

Finally! (Wait did I already say that?)

Do we get to watch 4 minutes of DJ now like they did with Wright?

579 That's hardly a lot. Four people. Plus, I don't think Posada was in the bigs in 1995, Mattingly's last year.

Business as usual for Jeter. Why can't every player have his methodical obliviousness to pressure?

Thank you Jeter, I'll take the HR and RBIs, but this is going to kill my fantasy pitching stats.

woo hoo!!!

Derek Jeter WANTS the MVP he was robbed of last year. Hopefully the team drags itself to the playoffs.

What the hell? We're winning?

593 He was, for one game!

593 Posada played one game. September 4.

593 Jorge was actually on the post season roster in 1995.

OK. That's more like it. We've made Maine work and it's paid off.

Maine won't finish the fifth, I bet you. The Mets won't get a chance to pinch hit for him.

Chyll, you just missed the most fun in about a week.

601 Again - one game, not even an AB.

That's it, kid!

Holy Crap, and we got Wright out! I thought he hit a HR against us everytime according to ESPN

Tyler not intimidated by Wright, huh?

I like T-Clip's energy. We need that kind of spunk right now. Just back it up, kid.

604 Well yes and no. I've got GameDay on >;)

599 600 601 One game? Well, I stand corrected.

Wow! Saved by a kid with a face full of pimples!

Cano set and made a strong throw. He is listening to his coaching. He'll be back to normal soon.

605 I am not arguing against your point...just stating a fact.

Yeah, he's wired and wirey.

Been some funky swings this game

612 Don't count the chickens just yet...

613 i don't know - that form was pretty bad - almost an ole play. Needs to get his ass down and get in front of those balls. A bad hop and it's by him.

TY ler CLIP pard clap clap clap-clap-clap.

TClipps got a nice little strut there

Yes! 5 k's though 4 IP. But he's at 75 pitches. If all goes well he gets two more IP. But then Torre will probably pull him after 88 pitches.

Clippard definitely has good stuff. If he can command his fastball, he might be a keeper. I am still not convinced they can save this season, but there does seem to be real pitching potential in the organization. If Clippard, Wang and Hughes can anchor a staff over the next 6 years, then I don't think a down season this year will lead into a late 80s/early 90s crap out.

i like the way Clippy's ears stick out--looks like a 50s ballplayer...

621 Yeah, those Ks cost a lot of pitches, and he walked three too.

God, A-Rod looking awful. I didn't see the HR yesterday, was he looking better?

I gues Arod should no longer be AGod and perhaps should be Apop? Or, i guess we could borrow KRod...

Arod...please snap out of this...I really can't take another season of Arod booing drama.

Yay Posada!

BANG.

Sweet. Let's get Maine out now, so no pinch hitter!

Jorgie juiced one!

Wow! Jorge!

618I agree that he fielded it as he usually does. But then he seemed to set and think through the throw instead of nonchalanting it.

624 Arod had several good ABs last year...I more worried about perception taking over for reality than a fundamental problem with his approach.

That's why A-Rod can't be A-God anymore. The Yankees are monotheistic.

Ooooh, not quite, Bobby. Good crack though.

632 I meant yesterday...not last year.

632 Ha ha. that's a pretty funny slip there. Only several good ABs last year :)

622 Yeah, with Wang and Hughes leading the staff, and Clippard, DeSalvo, Rasner, Karstens behind, as well as Joba and Kennedy who should be in AAA by next season, things look good for the future?

Remember all thsoe past seasons when it seemed like every kid they called up for a spot start got murdered out there?

of course, who knows what happens...

Just how many uniforms do the Mets have? Do they change inning to inning?

622 Don't forget Ian Kennedy. He threw 7 IP today 0 ER 2 BB 9 K.

On the season: 51 IP 7 ER 20 BB 56 BB

And he doesn't turn 22 until December. If all goes well he's in Treton in a month.

Sorry:

On the season: 51 IP 7 ER 20 BB 56 K

I agree about the rotation of the future. It's fun to think about.

Ugh. Well, Maine was going to finish the inning anyway.

638 beat you to it :)

Oh, I see. They put the steal on because Minky wasn't going to double and this way they pinch hit for the pitcher next inning! That's thinkin'.

638636 There's also Betances and Sanchez with his surgically repaired bionic arm.

TY-ler CLIP-pard clap clap clap-clap-clap.

642 Yep...now, if Minky can walk again (I wont insult anyone by suggesting a hit), Clippard can bunt. Wait...lets see him get through the 5th to first!

641 Yup!

Anyone know anything about this Edwar Ramirez kid?

Last year (A+): 30.2 IP 4 ER 6 BB 47 K
This year: (AA): 18.2 IP 1 ER 8 BB 37 K

Reliever - but does he throw gas?

great to see the kid consistently throwing the fastball inside-

Shit, of course Torre is going to pinch hit for Tyler.

645 I think they pinch hit for Clippard in the sixth. 82 pitches. Hmmmm.

Well, I hope they leave him in, but I bet Joe pulls him.

A little fielding practice for Cano!

643 Betances, while I am fully confident he will be a front line starter (Wang, Hughes, Joba, Dellin, oh my!), is still at least two years away. He's starting in the short season this year, so next year will probably be A+ and AA, then AAA the following season...

This kid's pretty good. Can we call him the Yankee Clippard? Too much of a mouthful?

649 If I'm Torre, I have to see what Clippard can give me. He could be the 5th starter through early July, so let's start treating him as such. Forget about babying him through his 1st major league win...let him pitch until he falters.

Clip should go another at least, but Joe won't do that. Or, he'll pull him for a lefty matchup or something. Let's all say it together: "Bruney in the 8th, Bruney in the 8th!"

Hey, I think I know this pitcher. Didn't he make a brief appearance yesterday?

Also, if Clip hangs around...is there any chance DeSalvo stays and Clemens replaces Viz on the roster.

653 Seriously, through Early July???
I don't get it. Wang, Andy, Moose, Rocket, Hughes.

But he's staying in! Yay.

Looks like Stinky Minky is fully back in action

653 Looks like he will.

Yeah Joe!

Oh no way. No way!!!!!

I totally love Ty Clip!

Yeah Tyler!

Yay!

Hey, he sure HITS like the Yankee Clippard!

Tyler Clippard with the 1.000 slugging pct.!

damn!, that was a pretty decent looking swing, too--the Clipster!

He can hit too! Any chance Clip can moonlight as a pinch hitter in between starts? Maybe we have a bench after all.

I like that he runs with his tounge out too, how goofy!

Is there nothing, T-Clipp can't do?

Well, if he doesn't get another start, he can always DH.

657 There's a chance Hughes is out until July - at least a month right now.

Please just don't hurt yourself running those bases, T-Clip.

Although he would become a cult hero in this town if he took out LoDuca on a throw to home...

Shouldn't they get him that jacket pitchers always wear?

I think Wil Nieves is crying right now.

656 I was all for riding the DeSalvo wave until the 8 walk game. I think we got the equivalent of on Thursday.

657 According to latest reports, Hughes is still at least a month away. Being conservative, that leaves him out of the plans until early July.

675 well played, sir.

A pinch hitter who can pitch; a reliever who can pinch hit

672 Crud, I missed that. What happened? I thought he was supposed to return in a week or two.

675 Nieves is busy looking for change so he can buy a hit.

Matsui is going to walk.

is it sad that at this point I trust Clippard more than most of our offense?

Nope. Was that the slider? I think so. Up in the zone, but still a good pitch to get lefties.

Don't forget Joba Chamberlain, Betances, and Ian Kennedy coming a little further down the road. I think the Yankee have enough pitching in their system to have 1-5 homegrown starters in a few years. You could say, "barring injury" but they've already sustained a bunch of injuries to their young pitchers(Sanchez, Melancon, Garcia, Cox) and I can still count five pitchers in the system who could make up a good rotation for the Yanks in a few year(Hughes, Chamberlain, Betances, Kennedy, Clippard). Of course, things don't always work out so nicely; there will be further injuries and trades and non-performance. I think they would be doing well if they could get one more number one guy from their system to go along with Hughes. That's how I see Chamberlain and Betances, potential number one starters.

I think we have to agree on the pitching strategy now, so we can collectively beam thought waves to Torre.
Clippard pitches the sixth. Two innings for Proctor?

Yipes, this is going to be a tough inning for T-Clip.

685 Although who knows what this offense looks like by then, or if Rivera's still chugging along.

Pitching will certainly be the best thing about the team, though.

That looked fugly.

Whew. Damon with not much breathing room.

Whem, that was close!

WHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHEEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

691 Excuse me, your 'w' was upside down there.

I'm smiling now, broadly.

TY-ler CLIP-pard clap clap clap-clap-clap.

Appearance-wise, Clippard is the Caucasian Julian Tavarez.

5.2 IP - 6K. Nice.

Pettitte is throwing in the pen.

1-2-3, baby!

695 That ain't right. Plus, Clip's no porn-star wannabe.

693 Ooops!

Clip for the 7th!

How many pitches is that for Clippard? Does he go another inning or do we see Proctor now?

Let T-Clipp start the 7th... bottom half of the order, he's still under 100 pitches...

Wow, if Clippard keeps this up, I mean wow.

It actually makes it more frustrating now that we went after people like Igawa, and brought all these people up before him. I and several other people have been clamoring for him from the beginning. Sometimes you have to trust the kids.

Clip's got "Freddy-skin". Staring out at that mug must be unnerving to the hitter.

So, the formula for tonight's game so far? Clip-Clip Jorge!

Looks can be deceiving. Clippard looks 17, while Hughes looks about 25.

695 I think you owe Clippard an apology.

Whatever Guidry says now I'm fine with. Clippard did the job: six innings one run! And the Ks, and krist he gave up three hits. One mistake. Wow.

And speaking of Wow, Alex totally blasts it.

A-Pad does it again! ;-)

703 Well lets not get too excited yet, give him a few games. Besides, Clipp needed a few games to get recentered in AAA...

Two games in a row for Arod!

A-Rod's coming back.

There he goes, padding his stats again ;)

Welcome back Hobbs.

Nice. LF'er did not move...

whoa.

707 Hey, I never said he pitched like Tavarez.

One thing we've learned from this game is Carlos Beltran wears number 15.

Anyone else sick of hearing Miller pronounce the Mets' center fielder's name like he does?

Carlos Bel-TRON.
Carlos Bel-TRON.
Carlos Bel-TRON.
Carlos Bel-TRON.
Carlos Bel-TRON.

We do well against the Mets' bullpen, huh?

710 I realize that, hence the "if", but still I'm much happier giving "our" kids a shot. So if Clippard keeps it up and everyone is healthy, we go 6-man rotation? :)

I think they have the same dentist.
Must be the MiLB Player Dental Plan C. Don Zimmer, head dentist.

720 Hear hear!

712 I know you were joking, but as long as Vizcaino is in the pen, there is no such thing as padding.

720 I could see Moose throwing a tantrum being asked to pitch as part of a 6-man rotation.

I felt good about tonight. I just forget that I had. I say 4 back by the end of June. 4.

Whatever happened to that Mets troll from last night?

Suzyn W says A-Rod's blast was the first extra base hit by a righty off Burgos this year.

Joe Morgan just went on three tangents and never actually finished with a point to any of them. He just sort of trailed off.

Bobby A showing some pop tonight!

Bobby A's hit it pretty well every time tonight, no?

717...and Shawn Green is #20.

Abreu back, Alex back, and a new wonderboy pitcher. Now I remember: baseball is great!

728 He's drunk.

Abreu could be coming out of his prolonged slump. That would be huge for the Red Sox series.

718 I'm just sick of Miller.

By the way, what the hell kind of name is 'Ambiorix'? Is he an ancient Gaul or something? Do they give him magic potion when he pitches?

I'll be damn... the ball hit Bobby's bat went out for a double...

730 Yes, I believe he has.

So has Matsui, he seems to be hitting the ball hard the other way lately, which is a good sign.

732 Alex isn't back. It's great he hit that homerun, but he looked terrible on that strikeout.

He's going to have to have good at-bats consistently for me to feel reasonably confident with him at the bat.

hi everyone. nice to see the Yanks winning a nice game with Clippard looking awesome. My family was watching (mostly) on my laptop. Much fun.

734 Not to be too much of an optomist, but if the players who havent been playing up to their carreer averages start playing above them, so they come back up to their career numbers, the yanks can put together a nice streak. Lot's of "ifs" but there is hope...

736 ha ha ha hah ah a ha!

That's very funny.

An ancient Gaul.

Interesting. Will they walk Minky? No. (Joe would certainly pinch hit for Clippard. Even though he doesn't have anyone who's as good a hitter.)

Did Gammons say that Jeter said that Farnsworth isn't "a significant member of the team"?

Ouch, and he doesn't even get the pass.
I dunno. What's the rule on that? Obviously Minky wasn't attempting to get hit!

Are we going to get ANY breaks this season?

This umpire is an idiot.

WHy the hell would the ump call that?

absolutely grotesque call, though it dosen't matter--

Awful call...doesn't that just typify DM.

745 Besides Rasner's finger, that is.

"No, Nooo! Stay here! You're in the box, that's a ball," intoned the ump to Minky.

That was some pretty cool audio.

"Stay here!"

it would have been cool if joe got tossed over that. it would have lit a fire under this team in a big way.

735 I haven't watched an ESPN game without the mute button on in a long time and now I remember why. What's with the shock & awe on every play?

Terrible call. Poor Scrabble doesn't get on base that often to begin with.

Okay, so: does Clippard come out? He was in the on-deck circle.

Clippard going back out there.

Btw, can someonw fill me in on the "Scrabble" moniker?

I like it.

743 No, that was Gammons' own statement. He wasn't quoting Jeter.

751 That was kind of harsh...like the ump was talking to a dog. Regardless of the calL, Minky DID get hit in the knee and might be in a little pain.

757 Because his name looks like a random rack of tiles.

758 Thanks, didn't feel like rewinding...

... and I guess a fairly high scoring bunch of tiles, at that!

724 I think Mussina does well on the extra day rest. He seems to pitch well when he knows ahead of time what his schedule is going to be.

757 Imagine the triple word score on Mientkiewicz.

proctor has looked good since his suspension rest, no?

Clippard threw 95 pitches, and remember that four of those were an IBB. I guess I'd rather see him face a batter or two. Oh well.

That has to be one of the better debuts in a long time.

759 No kidding, that's exactly what it sounded like.

I couldn't believe my ears.

"Stay here!"

You'd think there'd be some protocol or something.

The ump's job isn't to humiliate the players or to antagonize them.

If that's how they routinely talk to the players, it's amazing tensions don't flare more often than they do.

That has to be one of the better debuts in a long time.

If you were a scout and had never seen either player before, whom would you select as the better hitter based on this game: Mientkiewicz or Clippard?

i spoke too soon? i hate when i do that.

Huh, pop-up practice for A-Rod today.

770 yeah, btu who is the better pitcher?

770 I think Clippard is probably a better hitter period.

I didn't mean today, I meant this inning.

771 No, I think you're right, the rest was what he needed. {sigh}

Miller just did the same thing with Gotay:

ru-BEN Gotay.

ruBEN.

Joe Morgan just killed Julio Gotay off.

I sure do hope that robINson Cano can snap out of his funk.

Nice relay.

Settle down, Scotty.

Wow.

That was a gutsy pitch to throw, that curveball.

Is there any doubt the Mets will bring the tying run to the plate this game?

Scotty, be good

Pettitte not throwing now. Villone, and Bruney.

781 Farnsworth coming in?

Beauty. Beautiful. Way to go, Scotty.

Reyes gets his annual exam from the Proctologist!!!

That was a nice fastball.

Well done, Scotty.

That's nice pitching.

Got a good called strike 3 there.

784 Nah. Farns pitched yesterday. Gotta be on the shelf today. Bruney and Mo for the 8th and 9th.

786 That's terrible.

Oh god, that's terrible.

789 Probably, but I don't see anyone else trying...

784 Then they may not tie the game. The hideous Farnsworth is out of the equation.

789 yeah, i wouldn't want to see the proctologist either. sounds not fun...

Wow, Scotty gets another inning.

Given how things have been going, it'll be a major coup if we can steal this game.

(Knock on wood.)

Btw, what's Derek at, 15 games now?

Scott Proctor hitting?? Why not Double Switch out Minky?

ok. proctor won't make a good DH.

Does Gammons even feign impartiality anymore?

HEre comes Gammons to argue why Boston is the greatest team ever..

Is Joe feeling alright? Letting Clippard throw 95 pitches, using Proctor for multiple innings? This actually resembles reasonable management of the pitching staff. Maybe he knows his job is on the line.

Are we so confident with a 5-run lead that we'll let a pitcher lead off the 8th inning? That seems nuts.

796 Or Take out abreu and put in Melky... something!?! You should not be giving up outs when you are despirate for wins...

801 Saves some of the bullpen for Boston.

801802 With the state of the bullpen being what it is, I have no problems with Proctor batting there. We can't keep using 5-6 pitchers every single game.

Five runs is a big lead. Though I believe... yes, six would be bigger. If I'm not mistaken.

I don't doubt the Red Sox have the upperhand in the division, but I could see there rotation on fumes by October.

What is Gammons talking about the Sox having younger position players? Is he serious? I could be wrong, but I don't think there is much of a difference.

799 WTF is a defective baseball? Josh Beckett is blaming his non-blister blister on a defective baseball. That's classic.

803 Torre should have double switched is what we're all saying, no doubt Proctor should pitch the 8th...

807 I heard that too, but it sounded so bizarre, I thought I must have misheard it.

A defective baseball.

That's a new one on me.

809 it was round and therefore obviously defective.

807 Was it a defective baseball the previous dozen or so times he's been sidelined by blisters too?

Anyone just see that nauseating Sportscenter tease?

DID A ROOKIE PITCHER FOR THE RED SOX BEAT TIM HUDSON?!! NEXT!!

Yeah, ummm...your point? Yankees had a rookie shut down the Mets tonight too.

807 Maybe the other team boobytrapped the baseball. They put razors in it like Halloween apples.

Does everyone really love Proctor pitching 2 innings in a 6-1 game on the eve of a 3-game series against Boston. Also, Proctor seems to be much more effective in one inning stints as opposed to two inning games.

Was Abreu playing in Flushing Meadows? Man, he was deep...

I do like Proctor pitching two innings. This is the way we've been wanting Torre to manage the pen. Fewer pitchers for more innings each. Only Mo gets the special treatment.

the baseball toaster comment tabulator is off for me. anyone else have this problem?

And remember Proctor doesn't have the best stats against the Sox, so it's not tragic if he's not available tomorrrow and Bruney is in his place...

814 It saves Bruney for tomorrow.

Hey, some rest does Proctor good!

816 I don't disagree IF Proctor isn't back out there tomorrow.

816 I don't disagree IF Proctor isn't back out there tomorrow.

813 Yummy.

wow, did Proctor just get away with a hanging slider to punch out Wright. You could see in Scott's mannerisms as he was walking off the mound that he knew he got very, very lucky.

This Wright kid stinks. Not clutch at all.

817 Seamus, no. You're 817, and it looks normal.

And, by the way, our Win Expectancy is now over 99%.

813 ha ha ha hah ha ha ha ha ha!

825 it just feels nice to be confident in getting the win.

thanks. must be me.

Shouldn't Farnsworth be warming up now? You know, because we'd like to get Mo another save.

Yeesh. That 3B stinks. Not clutch at all.

Matsui's really swinging the bat well.

It's nice to see.

Wright looks silly at bat and now in the field! I love it...

What, a kitten?!

Uh, I meant the Wright fielding play!

That was an adorable kitten, but what the heck was it doing in a tarp?

828 Can that cat hit?

Sorry. Didn't mean to cite there.

What a sweet kitten. I hope they take care the kitten.

828 Nope. He's not significant.

828 Too late for that. If Farnsworth comes in, he'll give up the go ahead run.

837 :)

That thing with the cat was hilarious. He probably just crawled in there, as cats are wont to do.

Maybe a black cat will change our luck...

Abreu two walks today. Very good, very good sign.

Btw, what exactly did Suzyn mean when she said that Clemens standing in George's box was one of the most amazing things she's ever seen?

I mean, is there anything even remotely extraordinary about such a scene?

What the hell did she mean?

I'm troubled by this.

is it just me or is Abreu starting to look like he has a clue?

Indeed, Abreu is looking very promising.

Let's keep our fingers crossed.

Wow, I can't remember the last time we saw Mo.

Its amazing how one win, a nicely pitched and played game, can buoy spirits so!

is this another rookie?

842 You mean back when Clemens was announced?

Can someone please explain what is happening here? Its the 9th inning and the number in our runs column is greater than the other team's. I do not understand.

Mo looks focused.

849 all hail tyler clippard!

842 Maybe she had a bat shard in her eye?

848 Yeah.

849 I think it means Gameday is broken.

852 :)

And now Gammons starts talking about Dice-K to ensure we don't forget that the Sox are the greatest team. Ever.

846 The last three innings (Save Kyle Farnsworthless) contribute to the feel, I think.

Weeping: she was just gushing. She was emoting. She's a ham.

857 I meant the last three innings of last nights game

849 Joe and Jon sound surprised as well.

858 That she is, bless her heart.

Oh for the love of god its Damion Easley.

Wait, have there been any 1975 Reds references? Did I miss em?

Mo has good velocity. Was that a change at 88mph before?

fastball looks good, cutter not so much-

Yeesh. Kind of puts a damper on things.

Son of a bitch

Can you believe this?

I most assuredly cannot.

Mo's continued suckage pisses me the fuck off.

That was inexcusable.

I think Mo realizes he has a big lead and just tried to end the game by putting it over & making him hit it...

No need to panic.

Mo's stats are going to take a beating this year, but that's a 3-2 pitch in a 6-1 game.

[8700 Mariano Rivera has to get Damion Easley out.

872 Well just thank your stars the score wasn't 6-5 at the time!

Did Franco forget to put his dentures in? He looks like he's all gums.

There it is.
Good point, 871 Mo knows he CANNOT walk Easly there.

Still.

Mo's command was a little off...but the lack of work contributed to that. He had to lay one into Easely. I wouldn't read anything into that inning other than Mo getting work.

Mo whiffs the 75 year old! YANKEES WIN!!!

Clippard has had the best debut of the year so far. Love the kid and that delivery.

Rivera doesn't seem to be concentrating to hard on a big free agent payday this offseason.

872 Yes, he does. Mo shouldn't be giving up HRs to the likes of Easley and Marco Scutaro.

878 Desalvo was a close second

875 You also can't let him hit a HR. Mariano Rivera is supposed to get Easley out easily.

Bad job by Rivera.

Nice win. Not least because young Clippard made it through the game without breaking or straining anything.

Suzyn has Clippard at the mike.
Tyler was excited to get the double. He said he closed his eyes and swung. Cute.
He last batted 4.5 years ago, and he's never seena fastball over 87 mph.

880 Easely is a VERY GOOD dead fastball hitter. He just doesn't hit much else.

870 Pete, lord knows I'd love to feel as secure as you, but in this spot, Mo really needed to go out there and find his form.

I'm not quite panicking as far as he goes, but I'm officially troubled by his performance.

It's quite distressing, actually.

882 So it's possible Easley was sitting on what Rivera was throwing. Better Mo works out these kinks with a 5-run lead than up by 1 or 2.

882 Point is, a walk is as bad as a HR there. And putting a fat pitch over doesn't guarantee a homer, while throwing a pitch out of the strike zone does guarantee the walk.

And it's a sad day when I'm the positive one.

885888887 Easley is a very bad hitter. The fact that it got to ten pitches to begin with is beyond distressing.

888 The point is, there was a time when people just didn't homer off of Mo. Whatever the extenuating circumstances, the fact that Mo's reached a point where there can be extenuating circumstances is just sad.

The sun is setting.

That should read 885 888 887

Well, the Mo glitch aside, great game, we needed that one. And just think, in the third inning we were all thinking that those squandered RISP were going to bite us on the butt.

Mark that Damon bloop double on your calendar! That was the Moment Things Started Going Right.

Night all.

891 And people period, Let alone bad baseball players like Scutaro and Easley

893 You're right, RI, but the Mo thing is bad, especially given his history with Boston. It's hard to believe his confidence isn't at a low point right now, and he really could have used a dominating performance going into the Boston series, for all our sakes.

As to the Damon bloop, yes, that's the point of making contact. Put the ball in play and anything can happen.

Three of the biggest hits during the dynasty were the opposite field blooper by Paulie to start off the ninth-inning rally against Arizona, Sojo's seeing-eye dribbler through the right side against the Mets, and Jorgie's little flair up the middle against Pedro.

Put the bat on the baseball and you always have a chance.

Flail around with a violent swing and you can be pitched to, I don't care who you are.

I was hoping the moment things started to go right was last night when a comeback looked very possible.

I'll settle for this. A sweep of the Sox would confirm a turn in my mind.

890 I think you are just looking for a reason to be nagative now. I think it's pretty well known that Easely is a very good fastball hitter. I also think it's a little reactionary to read anything into a 6-1, 2 out, 302 count. Sure, Mo usually doesn't give up HRs, but he also doesn't usually do mop up duty to get work in.

Scutaro was bad, but that has nothing in common with the Easely HR.

894 Yup.

I hope we somehow manage to get back to the postseason so Mo can have another opportunity to be the hero.

Those three innings against Boston in '03 were sublime.

It's sad to watch the decline of greatness, but all things must pass.

Like watching Mattingly's decline.

897 I hope you're right. If this were the first dinger he'd allowed, I'd let it pass, but it's hard not to sense a pattern emerging.

Not trying to be negative, at all.

Just trying to see things as they are.

Perhaps I'm distorting things.

In fact, I hope to God I'm distorting things.

897 He also doesn't usually get to ten pitch full count at bats against players five years past a prime that wasn't any good.

900 Actually, that's an excellent point.

It's not just that Easly hit a fluke homerun, it's that he battled and battled and just as I was remarking to myself what a great at-bat he was having and wishing that we had more at-bats like that, he actually won the battle.

It's not like Mo just got to 3-2 and then said "Fuck it, hit this."

The fact that there was a battle and that Mo lost the battle is what makes me uncomfortable, not the homerun per se.

Clippard is the shit.

Also, he should PH for Mink, Abreu, etc.

Nice game. Love seeing the offense do their thang.

901 Mo TOTALLY said, "Fuck it, hit this"! He had a big grin on his face after the 159th foul ball. He doesn't care about his stats, and like someone said, a walk is worse (and leads to rallies more than a homer). I have faith in Mo. Do I think he's the same old Mo? No, but he hasn't really been that for a few years now. When you're a guy who once had 27 consecutive HITLESS innings (thats 3 no-nos), it's hard not to come down to earth. I'm not thrilled that he had to throw 27 pitches going into the Boston series, but I'm not sold he's in such a sharp decline that he can't be extremely effective still.

Plus, people are gonna get WAY too caught up in the stats and talk about things like the 3 HR Mo has given up already, or at the end of the year when he doesn't have a sub 2 ERA (hard to pull that off by now) they won't look at his since-point-A-vs-point-B stats. Could be worse. We could have Borowski (who had a perfect save tonight).

I have to say that overall I'm pleased with the young pitchers we have coming up. Even if this season goes into the toilet, we'll be all right with them next year.

In regards to Mo, the sun may very well be setting, but we've barely seen Mo at all this year, how can we tell? Has he even had time to get into his groove/form?

It's nice not to have Mutts fans over here razzing us, too.

903 And again, the very fact that there was 159 fouls from Easley is disconcerting. He's really no good at all and Mariano Rivera should have made him look foolish in less than half that time.

905 Thats the one thing that's keeping me positive about him. We're 43 games into the season and he's been in 16 games. I hope if he gets regular work he can settle in.

903 I never suggested Mo cared about stats.

That's not my point.

My point is that a battle is a battle.

There was a time when such an at-bat never would have extended so long only to end in a "Oh, fuck it, just hit this and let's go home" kind of deal.

The at-bat ended in a capitulation rather than having the batter be carved up on four or five pitches.

Remember what it's like when Mo just carves 'em up?

That's what I'm talking about.

I have faith in Mo too. I think he's good enough to figure out a way to be dominant again, but it's clear to me he'll have to figure something out.

He's now in Randy Johnson territory, sort of.

God, that sounds so awful, and I don't mean it to be.

But what I mean is that Mo is at a point where he'll have to start making adjustments.

He'd not done that yet.

God forbid he should end up like Johnson, whose problem wasn't his stuff, but his failure to adjust to the stuff he had.

I think Mo can do it, but it'll take real work.

Perhaps he should start thinking about that changeup?

I mean, that's what it's for, right?

Let's watch and see if he can do it.

Man, you guys are good, I lost count around foul #100.

905 I know, I agree totally.

The optimist in me says exactly that: "Maybe he's just undeworked..."

And I really believe that may be the case.

But still, the old Mo I think would have had more margin for error.

In no circumstances can I imagine the old Mo allowing this many hard hit balls.

It's not just a question of control, there's something else, I think.

Because I feel like a few years ago he could have thrown his cutter over the middle and still it would have been hard to hit hard.

Now it seems like every mistake is hit hard rather than just a few of them.

Time will tell.

416 When the first RJ trade went down, I was excited like 99% of Yankee fans, but I thought they gave up too quickly on Javy and would rather they have spent the money on Beltran.

Unit had a 5.00 ERA for the Yankees last year...crap, I am not getting into this again. I already have. 442 sums it up better than I could.

911 Vazquez has been a bad pitcher since we got rid of him. We gave up on him just when we should have.

912 I realize that in hindsight, and I'm glad they call the shots. At the time of the trade though, I saw an excellent first half and a pretty bad second half.

911 Where's that dead horse when you need it?

Something tells me I ought to skip comments 350-500 or so, huh? Sigh.

Great debut by Clippard. I hope he gets to stick and take Rasner's spot until the big guns are ready to go, and that he'll be the first option in case of injury. I wonder if DeSalvo wouldn't be best suited as a long man out of the pen.

914 Something to take away from those series of comments, Shaun... JD and I had a serious and civil debate about, among other things, the merits of the RJ trade and the decision making by and about the organization. Bet you don't see that happen often >;)

915 Indeed, Will. Hats off!