I don't know where "[blank] being [blank]" started (perhaps in reference to Manny's baseball ancestor in idiot savantitude Rube Waddel?), but it seems in Manny's case to have become widely used right around the time the execrably vague, useless phrase "it is what it is" began its march toward dim-witted sports cliche dominance.

2 Interesting. Who started that 'is what it is'? My first memory of it is out of the mouth of Bill Parcells.

OT: Someone made a mock Carl Pavano blog. I don't think it's that funny, and the language/URL are probably NSFW, but what the hell:

http://www.dicegay.com/

Is that writer being serious? You never can tell with Sox fans.

I'm not kidding.

Until last night, Manny hadn't done much against anyone this season.

That said, last year he hit well over .500 against the Yankees. It was the best single-season performance against the Yankees (min. 40 ABs) ever. During that brutal, brutal 5-game sweep, Manny was pretty much the only guy on the Sox who hit a lick.

6: That quote's obviously over the top, but from a Sox fan's perspective, doesn't Ortiz seem like a gift from the gods? How could Minnesota possibly have cut this guy? And one of the factors in that decision, if I'm not mistaken... Doug Mientkevicz.

I'm with you, Alex. I've always liked Manny, except for the home run antics. it probably helped that I saw his first game at Yankee STadium - two homers and a double, with the LF stands filled with cheering Dominicans from Washington Heights.

I also think he's not nearly as bad a fielder as he's made out to be. He makes some bonehead plays, to be sure, but he also makes some damn nice ones, and he's learned to play the Monster quite well.

I can't figure out why Red Sox fans hate him so much. It's a lot like the fans who were screaming to trade ARod, except it's been going on longer.

At least save it for a walkoff, Manny...

I'm too old school to appreciate a player like him. Hate him? Nah, I don't care enough about him to hate him. But from what I can tell he's the worst kind of clown there is. The unfunny kind. Why he doesn't get drilled in the ribs for showing up pitchers is beyond me. Oldtime pitchers wouldn't let him get away with his crap.

I can only speak for myself and not for all Red Sox fans, but I sure don't hate him, nor do any of my Red Sox fan friends. Some do, I guess, but I don't think he gets booed in Fenway, as A-Rod was getting booed in New York earlier this season.

http://tinyurl.com/3czfft

I loved Rickey. He was a character, and also as good a ballplayer as I've ever seen.

Personally, I'd keep him in his own world. He may be a happy, lovable goofball, but Manny strikes me as one of those guys you wouldn't want to upset. Remember, after the ball leaves the pitcher hand, the hitter still has the bat.

But the Sox fans, and press, have been routinely denigrating him and calling for him to be traded for quite a few years now. Here's the real comparison I saw with Rodriguez: if Manny ever were traded, the fans would discover that he's basicaly unreplaceable.

The "ee" sound at the end of their names make the phrases particularly sing-songy.

Its funny, I used to dislike Manny until I moved to Massachusetts. Then I realized what a great hitter he truly is. Coupled with the dislike so many Sox fans show, I can't dislike the guy. I just can't.

Manny is like A-Rod in that I think Manny is unappreciated by some segments of Sox fans. Some don't seem to realize they're watching one of the greatest hitters of this generation.

On Rickey - I can't wait to hear his Hall of Fame acceptance speech. Wonder if he'll be near-unanimous?

Maybe the "Manny being Manny" goes back to the days of "pluribus being pluribus" (although I am not sure that pre-dates Rickey...)

;-)

Rickey actually disrupted a game more than Bonds does. For one thing, you can walk Bonds...but when Rickey got on first, pitchers got twitchy and defenses started making mistakes. It was a pretty amazing thing to see.

In fact, I resent Bonds breaking the walk record more than the HR record. Bonds has been walked intentionally a ridiculous 654 times; Rickey had a grand total of 61. And again, Rickey's 2000+ walks were a weapon, where Bonds's were defensive.

Rickey also said some things that are right up there with the best of Berra or Rivers. The story about Olerud's batting helmet probably isn't true, but here's one that is. Someone - Ken Caminiti? - said that 50% of all baseball players used steroids. Rickey's comment: "Well, I don't, so that's 49% right there."

If I may generalize a bit, I would say that most of these fans are white males who prefer football to baseball. It's at least partly a demographic thing.

And I don't think Manny ever gets booed.

The other, maybe bigger problem, is that he played so many years past his period of real greatness. His power, his batting average and his fielding all declined staedily - though for most of that time, hs walks and his speed still made him a damn useful player. But for a lot of years, he wasn't playing at a Hall of Fame level anymore, and it became common for people to question whether he belonged or not.

Bill James's take on the "debate" was that if you could split Rickey Henderson in half, you'd have two Hall of Famers.

Having said that, his flaky personality and home run admiring is beyond stale; has been for some time. I don't think he's a bad guy. I just don't find him to be an admirable person either and the New Yorker article did nothing to enhance his image in my eyes. Great hitter, rarely hustles. You take the good, you take the bad...

and a colorful conversation between the two halves...

The way I see it, if a pitcher doesn't want to watch hitters celebrating HR's, I suggest they make better pitches.

He's as much of an a-hole as Bonds, but no one ever calls him on it. No one's ever really put him in his place, and I'm not really sure why. I think a lot of it has to do with his being protected by headhunters in the Pedro/Schilling mold since he got to Boston. You plunk Manny in the back, to tell him to stop being such a douche, and you can be pretty sure Pedro or Red Light will let one fly at Jeter's/Thome's/Vlad's hands, broken bones be damned.

I'll venture a guess and suggest Ramirez's detractors are not just white football fans, but baseball fans of various races and nationalities who prefer to see the game approached in a way that he does not care to.

Depending on how things go, either one of Rasner or DeSalvo won't be in the rotation, so I guess you can see how things develop before you buy Safeco tickets.

As for Rickey, I don't get the impression that he is underappreciated at all. I think most baseball fans realize how truly great he was.

Half are white males who do seem to live and die more with the Patriots than the Sox.

The other half are not. You guys are Sox fans - how can you discount the power of the Boston media to influence people?! (coughWEEIcough) There are, sadly, many people who lap up the garbage spewed by the CHB, the Big Show, Dennis & Callahan, and the rest, without ever giving it a second thought.

29 Its a Friday, so I will not go into my "why I'm glad Cal Ripken Jr, that team-stealing (insert multiple foul language phrases here) jerk wasn't unanimous" rant. I also won't get into the joke that is Ripken Stadium; anyone that interested can google Aberdeen and Ripken Stadium and debt and see what comes up.

I recall some writers and media members disliking Rickey for being too flamboyant and not enough of a team player - along the lines of JL's hammy comments in 35. I'm still not sure what those people were smoking.

I don't think he is bright enough to understand what he is doing. The bottom line is that is there aren't any pitchers willing to hit him in his next at-bat, then it isn't worth talking about. Since the Yankees lost Clemens and Cone, there hasn;t been a Yankee starter with the bals to protect the Yankee hitters. This is more of a concern to me than anything that Manny does.

He's an ass. Barry is an ass. Rickey was an ass. It shouldn't take away from there accomplishments, but it also shouldn't extend that fans and media have to treat them well and cover their exploits to the same degree that they would Hank Aaron. Skills and greatness as a hitter is one thing. Whether the player is good for the game is another. Manny is not good for the game, nor is he good for his team. The constant whining about his contract and sitting while he isn't hurt. It can be summed up by Kevin Youkilis during the Yankee game last weekend. Following an RBI hit to left in which Manny threw to the wrong base, Youk stood at first and yelled "Dont you know what the fuck you're doing Manny!" "Just throw the fucking ball." Nuff' said.

its funny becasue it seems like a great deal of the popular great players had personality issues and wouldnt be considered good for the game....

Also, I think Jim Rice 33 has a good point that Manny haters overlap a whole lot with Pedro haters. Interesting. A big difference is that Pedro was (and is) pretty damned smart, and I always had the feeling that he often knew very well he was goading fans and kind of got a kick out of it. Whereas I think Manny just isn't interested in reputation at all.

As for Manny, I don't get the Manny bashing. I say that considering Barry Bonds theatrics: the personal trainers; the lazy-boy chair; the head-case antics; fighting with his teammates in the dugout, during the game; refusing to stretch with the team; threatening writers; his Billy Martin/Mickey Mantle family life; and the HGH, hat size, shoes size, Balco, perjury stuff.

And everytime he hits a homer, not only does he drop his bat and stand at the plate, he begins his home run trot with a pirouette!

Maybe it's an east coast thing.

Barry has been on the west coast for 15 years, and by the time he hits his first homer, its midnight on the east coast.

Red Sox fans do not hate Manny. They cheer like crazy every single time he comes up. Which pisses off the media, since they want the fans to be like them and hate Manny. So they trash him in the papers a little more. And still he gets cheers. Media gets more pissed ... etc etc etc

And all the supposed bone-headed, space-cadet things Manny does on the field -- I saw Dirty Cap Trot Nixon do the exact same things for years -- toss a ball into the stands with only 2 outs, fall asleep on the bases and get picked off, run zig zag routes on balls in the gap, then make crap throws to the infield.

Did anyone ever say or write "Trot being Trot"? Nope, they just never mentioned the things he did. At all. It was like they didn't exist. But they go out of their way to rag on Manny.

They have put Manny into a personality straightjacket and even if he gave an 1-hour press conference every day, there would still be writers saying how he never talks to the media. Once they pin a label on you, true or false, you are stuck with it.