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Feel Like You've Heard This All Before? (Well, You Have!)
2007-02-21 05:33
by Alex Belth
Note: The Bronx Banter blog has moved to bronxbanterblog.com.

Spring training has just begun and yet many of us are already saying, "Wake me up on Opening Day." Fair enough. In the meantime, dig these pearls of Grapefruit League wisdom from the one-and-only Earl Weaver (from his wonderful book--co-written by Terry Pluto--Weaver on Strategy, essential reading for any serious baseball fan):

The Cliches of Spring

Another problem in spring camps is all those sportswriters with nothing much to write about. Every year it seemed I got asked the same questions, so I started giving my answers by the numbers. Here are my nine favorite answers.

1. The hitters are ahead of the pitchers. You use this one after your staff gets pounded for fourteen runs early in the spring. After all, maybe the hitters ARE ahead of the pitchers at this point. Who's to say which group develops faster?

2. The pitchers are ahead of the hitters. The opposite of number 1, so it should be used when you get shut out by three rookie pitchers nobody's ever heard of.

3. The Second-Time-Out theory. I'm not sure why it happens, but veteran pitchers often get hit in their second outing of the spring. When reporters asked me why, I had few answers. Instead, I'd just tell them it was just another case for the second-time-out theory.

4. The Loss In Daytona Beach theory. You can substitute any city, but this excuse is to be used when you get bombed on the road in the spring. So you lose to Montreal, 20-3, on March 22 in Daytona Beach. Who cares?

5. That's why they call 'em exhibition games. The Orioles often had records like 12-15 in the spring because I spent my time looking at players rather than worrying about winning. Most managers do the same. They call them "exhibition games" because they don't count.

6. The Lee May syndrome. This can be used for any veteran hitter who's having a lousy spring. Lee May couldn't hit his weight for me in the spring, but the man did the job once the season began. The writers would get nervous about Lee's springs, but I didn't worry. Guys who hit in the past and haven't gotten injured or too old are a great bet to hit again, regardless of their batting averages in Florida.

7. Yes, Palmer will pitch the opener. Every spring it seemed that Jim Palmer had some sort of injury--elbow, back, ulna nerve, etc.--and people would wonder if Jim would be able to pitch the opener. There were millions of stories speculating about Palmer's condition. Usually Jim was ready when the bell ran. I never worried about it unless Jim came up to me right before the opener and said there wa a problem.

8. Can't you see what we're doing out there? A lot of young writers had a million questions about what was happening in the spring. They didn't seem to understand that you had to do certain drills to get ready for the season. Rather than explain it all every day, it often was easier to pose this question. After all, they should have been smart enough to see what we were doing.

9. Phenom? What phenom? Every spring, the writers are looking for a phenom, a young player they can build up and go crazy about in their stories. I understand that they have to write something, but they've gotten carried away sometimes. I remember one rookie baseball writer who had Mark Corey ready for the Hall of Fame just because he hit the ball hard a couple of times in an intersquad game. Patience! It's a long way from the Grapefruit League.

Remember, Weaver's First Law:

No one's going to give a dam in July if you lost a game in March.

I don't think the Boss ever got that memo.

Comments (90)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-02-21 06:01:17
1.   rbj
So who's Opening Day starter -- Moose?

(I won't mention "first!")

2007-02-21 06:07:06
2.   Shaun P
I remember in the 80s and early 90s that the Yanks would have one of the best records in spring training - and then crap the bed in the regular season.

In '96, IIRC, the Yanks had a losing record in the spring, and then won it all. That convinced me the team's record in spring training didn't mean a damn thing.

To this day, my mother, who became a Yankees fan during the 70s, follows the Boss's line of thinking. I cannot convince her otherwise, which maybe ties back to Lipsyte's quote in the post before this one.

2007-02-21 06:11:57
3.   Yankee Fan In Boston
1 wang?
2007-02-21 06:19:10
4.   Dimelo
Pettite starts the 1st. He was brought in to be the #1 pitcher on the staff, right?
2007-02-21 06:20:57
5.   rbj
3 I'm thinking it could be Wang -- who was the ace last season, or Pettitte -- for sentimental reasons, but most likely Moose for having the longest current tenure on the staff. I doubt it would be Igawa. And Pavano? ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
2007-02-21 06:23:35
6.   bp1
Moose. Most "veteran". For all we know about Joe, this should almost be a foregone conclusion.

Regardless - I cannot wait for the first Andy game at home. I just wanna hear the ovation he gets as he walks to the mound. It will be a "chills" moment for sure.

2007-02-21 06:24:54
7.   markp
Weaver is probably my favorite manager that I saw a lot of. Billy would be, but he just couldn't keep it together long enough.
Earl was the number one sabermatician among managers in my era (as was his disciple Dave Johnson.) He had a great eye for what a player could do, and got (by far) the most out of guys like Dwyer, Lowenstein, etc.
2007-02-21 06:38:13
8.   Shaun P
Note sure about this year, but Moose definitely gets it next year, because it could be his last year.

I just went to retrosheet to look up who started the opener and the home opener in '97, figuring Pettitte had to have gotten one of those. He didn't; Cone started both.

Random fact - the winning pitcher in the Yanks home opener that year (they lost to Oakland) - Aaron Small in relief.

2007-02-21 06:38:14
9.   Mark T.R. Donohue
I have been feeling very weary and cynical about spring training lately myself. These things happen when your team trades the best pitcher in franchise history, falls just short of also trading the best hitter in franchise history, and their big free agent get is LaTroy Hawkins. For some reason this piece cheered me immeasurably. Thank you for posting it.
2007-02-21 06:42:36
10.   Yankee Fan In Boston
completely offtopic, but don mattingly's son preston was just named the 10th best prospect in the dodgers' organization.

http://tinyurl.com/2pyysf

alright. as you were.

2007-02-21 07:04:24
11.   Cliff Corcoran
4 Uhm. No.

#7 on Weaver's list reminds me of my annual "aches and pains" warning not to get overexcited about spring training injuries unless someone actually breaks something.

2007-02-21 07:16:41
12.   Raf
2 The '89 Tiggers had the best ST record, IIRC. That season they lost 103 games.
2007-02-21 07:22:32
13.   C2Coke
Man...how long before Opening Day now?
2007-02-21 07:25:06
14.   Raf
13 40 days and counting... Think I'm going to have to watch some old games to get my fix.
2007-02-21 07:56:44
15.   tommyl
1 If he's healthy Pavano. Might as well get every start out of him before he breaks a nail or has heavy legs.
2007-02-21 08:04:36
16.   Shaun P
12 That's what I'm talking about!

13 14 yesnetwork.com has a counter up on their main page (upper right corner) that is counting down to Opening Day by the second. Staring at that counter does not make the time go by faster. Not that I'm speaking from personal experience, of course.

2007-02-21 08:10:55
17.   Schteeve
So, 40 more days of

"Jeter is a Capricious Dick"

and

"A-Rod is a Nancy Boy Head Case" headlines? Sweet.

2007-02-21 08:26:26
18.   standuptriple
Instead of paying attention to the A-Rod/Jeter saga (again) let's make fun of the Sawx. Fat Schilling/D-ceK. Manny being Tardy. Nancy Drew. Come on. There's plenty of stuff.
2007-02-21 08:31:16
19.   tommyl
18 But that's too easy. Plus we Yankees fans have class ;)
2007-02-21 08:42:34
20.   yankz
I think Knuckles' "Theo trying to look tough" comic was gold.
2007-02-21 08:43:45
21.   JL25and3
Meanwhile: every time Gary Sheffield opens his mouth, he makes me look good.

http://tinyurl.com/yp4txd

2007-02-21 08:45:47
22.   standuptriple
I think we need to hear Yogi's thoughts on the A-Rod/DJ soap opera. He always puts things in perspective.
2007-02-21 09:02:22
23.   Chyll Will
22 "Enemies can be your worst friends."
I got it, I'm gone...
2007-02-21 09:13:08
24.   Shaun P
21 I think Gary Sheffield is probably a Hall of Famer. However, he basically hates every team he's ever played for, and I'm sure that will include the Tigers in due time.

Isn't there someone in the Hall who's plaque has a blank ballcap? If not, I foresee Sheff as the first.

2007-02-21 09:17:16
25.   Chyll Will
How about we list the worst perpetrators of the type of slack-jawed journalism that Alex is clowning on right now? And maybe a quick blurb on why (either an educated opinion or a quote from the offender) Let's turn the tables on these (TinyHyphen) for a while; they couldn't really care if we have our own fun at their expense.

Okay, outside of the obvious (Gollum) I nominate Bob Raissman as a top-ten offender for his disingenuous slap at Cashman yesterday and his usual holier-than-thou flip-flopping on issues at hand.

Next?

2007-02-21 09:26:21
26.   nemecizer
19 I, for one, assure you that I have absolutely no class. I will heckle retarded children if they are wearing Red Sox gear to Yankee stadium.

Not that I am one to talk (then again I am not a major league pitcher) but does Schilling look fucking fat or what? And Dice-K looks a bit doughy, too. Also, I wonder if Nancy Drew brought his crystals and oxygen tent to Ft Meyes. Last, where's Manny? I hear he is hiding out at his momma's house.

Oh, man, I can't wait for the season.

2007-02-21 09:32:58
27.   Raf
24 James Augustus "Carfish" Hunter
2007-02-21 09:33:36
28.   Raf
eh, that should be "Catfish"
2007-02-21 09:52:41
29.   Knuckles
27
Carfish Hunter
http://tinyurl.com/ywjn2r
2007-02-21 09:54:41
30.   rbj
25 Mike Lupica -- ok, he's a columnist, not a journalist, but he's a sanctimonious Yankee hating prick.
2007-02-21 09:56:05
31.   Shaun P
[27 Thanks once again, Raf. I feel like you're providing the "-oops" to my hanging "alleys", and I am grateful.

25 Murray Chass, maybe? Many people here seem to have complaints about him. All I know is that, when it comes to labor and Seligula, I think Chass does some outstanding writing. Other stuff, not so much, as I understand it.

2007-02-21 09:58:58
32.   Chyll Will
27 The Carfish is a protected species indigenous to Detroit, MI which tend to migrate to marshy areas of Northern New Jersey and the Los Angeles River. On occasion, a carfish has been found with evidence used in criminal court or filed in cold case bureaus, along with trace amounts of cannoli. The Fordus Taurus Carfish was recently upgraded to protected status after an erroneous report of extinction (!)

Not to be confused with the Carbecue, normally found in southern parts of Bronx and Brooklyn.

2007-02-21 10:15:49
33.   markp
I thought Gollum was Lupica. (And if he isn't, why not?)
2007-02-21 10:16:18
34.   Chyll Will
Yer'a funny dood, Knuckles!
2007-02-21 10:16:54
35.   Sliced Bread
I mentally checked out of Camp "Days Of Our Yankees" a few days ago, after hearing Phil "The Future" Hughes on the Michael Kay Show.

All due respect to Alex, Cliff, and all the rest of you hardworking Yanks bloggers and commenters, but everything else (particularly the soap opera stuff) is just noise to me now.

Not sure if you've been to PhilipHughes.net but Mr. Ace of The Future has a short mix of tunes on his site which is pretty interesting, if you're curious about that sort of thing.

It's mostly Cali punk revival, and rap rock stuff: AFI (A Fire Inside),Rise Against, Thrice. Also of note, the "born-again" headbangers P.O.D.

Hughes seems to like his music loud, fast, and confrontational, which seems to fit his pitching style.

I keep thinking about how he told Kay he'd challenge Vlad inside on a 2-2 count, tie game, runners on etc.

I can't wait for this kid.

We now return to "All My Yankees" already in progress...

2007-02-21 10:21:30
36.   Bama Yankee
29 Knuckles, that "carfish" was hilarious.

Oh, BTW I love the Bronx Comix. Would you be willing to post an email address on your site so people could send you ideas or pictures for future comix?

2007-02-21 10:41:37
37.   Yankee Fan In Boston
35 "I keep thinking about how he told Kay he'd challenge Vlad inside on a 2-2 count, tie game, runners on etc."

he then said,"that's my bread and butter."

yeah. i think i'll like rooting for him.

2007-02-21 10:44:54
38.   dianagramr
29

"Nemo .... is that you? Oh my goodness look what they've done to you ...."

2007-02-21 10:47:53
39.   Yankee Fan In Boston
technically, yogi's HOF plaque has his profile, so there is no visible logo on his cap, either.
2007-02-21 11:05:02
40.   Knuckles
36 Created a Gmail address for my site and will welcome any feedback. Thx.
2007-02-21 11:11:06
41.   Bama Yankee
24 Maybe Sheff's HOF plaque will look something like this:
http://i13.tinypic.com/4bp48c6.jpg
2007-02-21 11:12:45
42.   Jeteupthemiddle
I don't want to be annoying about shameless plugs, but I am looking for a few more projections for Melky Cabrera on my blog so I can develop a community projection.

If some here could take a few minutes to project games, hits, doubles, triples, home runs, walks, strikeouts and hit by pitches for him, I would be very appreciative.

jeteupthemiddle.blogspot.com

2007-02-21 11:32:10
43.   dianagramr
Please help me decide my $$$ roto team name for 2007.

A bit of history:

2005: Big Head Bonds and the Monsters (for those of you who don't get the reference .... http://www.bigheadtodd.com/)
2006: Plantar Fascists (a takeoff on the injury of the moment .... Plantar Fasciitis)
2007: ???

I want to do something around my idea of "Pavanomas" (tm) :-)

So .... please vote
1) Carl Pavanomas
2) Pavanomas Pavanomas
3) Pavanomas nomas
4) Other (please specify)

Thanks!

2007-02-21 11:42:48
44.   Bama Yankee
43 I like number four...
The "Other (please specifies)" has a nice ring to it ;-)

How about the Glass Pavanomasses
or Pavanomas and the Heavy Legs
or Weapons of Pavanomas Destruction
or Pavanomas Confusion

2007-02-21 12:01:28
45.   rbj
43 I vote #3
2007-02-21 12:16:54
46.   Shaun P
42 Ask and ye shall receive!

43 I like Bama's suggested "Glass Pavanomasses".

2007-02-21 12:20:06
47.   JL25and3
24 There are quite a few Hall of Famers who have caps with no insignia or with no visible insignia (as with Yogi) - or even no cap at all. Most of them are old-timers, a lot from the 19th or early 20th century. Not all caps had insignias - the Cardinals basically had no insignia before 1940, so the Gashouse Gang went in with blank caps (except for Dizzy Dean, whose plaque inexplicably has StL despite the fact that his actual cap never did.)

But there are other cases where players did wear insignia but don't show them in the Hall. Here's a list: http://tinyurl.com/yong53

Aside from the Berra technicality, I think Johnny Mize is the last one before Hunter, and none since.

2007-02-21 12:22:44
48.   Cliff Corcoran
43 Pavanomas Garciaparra? Meaningless, but has nice sound to it.

Pavanomas' Dog? Merry Pavanomas (or The War on Pavanomas)? Ivanhoe Pavanomas?

Meanwhile, the Italian Foreign Minister is named Massimo D'Alema, which, if you ask me, is a great name for a number of different things, including a fantasy team, but a terrible one for a Foreign Minister.

2007-02-21 12:33:45
49.   Bama Yankee
48 I like Pavanomas Garciaparra. Imagine the Workers Comp fees for that team?

That Foreign Minister's fantasy team has got to be the "Weapons of Massimo D'Alema"

2007-02-21 12:40:28
50.   Jeteupthemiddle
46 Thanks. :)
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-02-21 13:19:49
51.   dianagramr
49

Cute ....

but unlike Carl, Nomar seems to want to play ... and he tells his team when he gets hurt

2007-02-21 13:47:19
52.   tommyl
48 I think the Italian Parliament agrees with you ;)
2007-02-21 13:48:36
53.   Ken Arneson
I think I need to change the name of my blog to Carfish Stew.
2007-02-21 14:22:07
54.   dianagramr
BP's Kevin Goldstein's Top 100 Prospects:

(Yankees rankings)

2. Philip Hughes, RHP, Yankees, 21
22. Jose Tabata, OF, Yankees, 18
56. Joba Chamberlain, RHP, Yankees, 21
65. Humberto Sanchez, RHP, Yankees, 24
92. Dellin Betances, RHP, Yankees, 19

OF THOSE WHO JUST BARELY MISSED THE CUT

Tyler Clippard, RHP, Yankees, 22

2007-02-21 14:24:39
55.   Bama Yankee
52 Why does the Italian Parliament care about dianagramr's fantasy team Worker's Comp fees? Wait... you meant the line about the Foreign Minister dude. ;-)

For the bored out there:
What do Massimo D'Alema, Adolf Hitler, Steve Spurrier, Luther Vandross, Carmen Electra and Don Mattingly all have in common?

2007-02-21 14:26:28
56.   dianagramr
55

I hope its a birthday ....

2007-02-21 14:37:37
57.   Bama Yankee
56 We have a winner...
Yes, they were all born on April 20th.
2007-02-21 14:39:46
58.   wsporter
55 Not one of them could teach Bubba Crosby to hit?
2007-02-21 14:45:24
59.   tommyl
55 I misread part of it. The Italian Prime Minister just resigned, and for a moment I thought that was who Cliff was referring to, in which case my joke of the Parliament agreeing it was a lousy name for a Minister makes more sense. Wow, a joke requiring that much explanation, definitely funny and I'm definitely not a nerd.
2007-02-21 14:47:49
60.   tommyl
58 Ha ha. That Bubba thing made no sense, does he mean to say that if he had outhit Johny Damon in ST Damon should have been optioned to Columbus? I'm the first to admit that the Yankees under Torre don't give kids enough of a chance, but please Matsui, Sheffield and Damon are all much, much, much better than Bubba Crosby. Now if Cano wanted to whine about some guy with a mustache getting to start at 2B, that I might listen to.
2007-02-21 15:03:00
61.   Chyll Will
57 Whoa. I'll have to check my Childcraft books; I thought the answer was the same as the one for Gerber and people with prostate issues... who knew?
2007-02-21 15:13:03
62.   Chyll Will
Extremely Horrible Pun #1 Warning!

55 Bama Yankee
"52 Why does the Italian Parliament care about dianagramr's fantasy team Worker's Comp fees?"

Because they want something special to Lira at?

2007-02-21 15:13:34
63.   Jim Dean
IMHO Bubba got a legit gripe but regarding 2005 not 2006. After all Green Tea had Womack starting ahead of him in CF. Then he didn;'t get significant playing time until September when he hit .327. I'd be pissed too.

54 And Tyler getting screwed again!

How does Sanchez get rated higher exactly, especially since they consistently pitched in the same leagues? (I'm not going to even touch guys like Tabata, Chamberlain, and Betances who combined have probably one year in professional baseball).

Tyler is 22, Humberto 24.

mL career Comparison:
Humberto: 5 seasons 84 GS 454 IP 8.29 H/9 0.56 HR/9 4.56 BB/9 8.84 K/9

Tyler: 4 seasons 84 GS 513 IP 7.56 H/9 0.74 HR/9 2.21 BB/9 9.77 K/9

So let me get this straight. Tyler is two years younger and has stayed healthier. He gives up few hits, walks fewer guys, and K's more of them. Humberto gives up fewer homers and has started 9 games in AAA.

But Humberto is the significantly better prospect?

I think those guys are smoking too much "potential" and "talent" and "stuff". I'm glad I don't waste my money reading it.

2007-02-21 15:18:13
64.   Chyll Will
62 (wait for it...)
2007-02-21 15:36:34
65.   mikeplugh
63 Jim...you know I agree with you on Clippard being underrated. I think the way to look at it, because we don't get a chance to see either of them much, is the data plus the pitcher type. Before data revolutionized scouting, scouts relied on things like body type, release point, repeatability of motion, and the velocity/location of various pitches. That stuff still holds a ton of value, but we are blessed with further statistical data to improve our understanding of other types of factors leading to success or failure.

Because of the data, I tend to agree with everything you've been lobbying for with Clippard. My understanding is that scouts are shy about projecting big things for Tyler at the Major League level because he's not a power pitcher, and his style is more location, and changing of speed to keep hitters off balance. Plenty of guys have succeeded with that mix, but the power pitcher always projects to more future success. It's one of Bill James 10 Commandments.

I don't mind that Clippard gets overlooked by media and fans, as long as he gets a fair crack from baseball minds in the organization. The same people that bring you 400 games of AAA Colter Bean had better at least give TC a chance to excel at the Major League level before subscribing to the existing analysis of his "stuff".

2007-02-21 15:44:24
66.   Jim Dean
65 Shouldn't we expect more from the same guys who try to master projections with PECOTA?

I hear you on the power pitchers, but I really think they need to show something first, and not just in Winter ball, before folks start touting them as one of the top 100 prospects in the game.

I'm okay with them neglecting Clippard because he will fly further under the radar. But they compound the mistake by overhyping guys to the nth degree (Tabata, Chamberlain, Betances). Jackson Melian anyone? Todd Van Popel?

You'd think the guys at BP would do better than to trust tools and body types over results. If so, you'd think wrong.

2007-02-21 15:54:10
67.   dianagramr
FWIW, Goldstein has the Yanks as the best organization in terms of pitching prospects (18th for position players).

Here is his write-up on Clippard.

7. Tyler Clippard, rhp
DOB: 2/14/85
Height/Weight: 6-4/170
Bats/Throws: R/R
Drafted: 9th round, 2003, Florida HS
What he did in 2006: 3.35 ERA at AA (166.1-118-55-175)
The Good: Tall, finesse righthander continued to prove his doubters wrong by going 9-0, 1.91 in his last 12 starts while allowing 48 hits in 80 innings. He locates his 88-91 mph fastball extremely well, using it to set up his plus curve and solid changeup. He's aggressive and likes to pitch inside.
The Bad: Without a plus fastball, Clippard lacks a lot of projection. With the curve being his only plus offering, there is little margin for error, and he can be prone to surrendering the long ball.
The Irrelevant: Twenty-six high school righties were drafted ahead of Clippard in 2003, but only two--Chad Billingsley of the Dodgers and Adam Miller of the Indians--would be universally taken ahead of him now.
In A Perfect World, He Becomes: A middle-of-the-rotation workhorse.
Gap Between What He Is Now, And What He Can Be: Low – Clippard is a finished product, but he's behind Hughes and Sanchez when it comes to opportunity. That means he'll begin the year in Triple-A and need to prove himself all over again.

2007-02-21 15:56:35
68.   dianagramr
And here is his write-up on Sanchez

4. Humberto Sanchez, rhp
DOB: 5/28/83
Height/Weight: 6-6/230
Bats/Throws: R/R
Drafted: 31st round, 2001, Connors State (Oklahoma) JUCO - DNF
What he did in 2006: 1.76 ERA at AA (71.2-47-27-86), 3.86 ERA at AAA (51.1-50-20-43)
The Good: He's the best prospect the Yankees received in the Gary Sheffield trade. Scouts love Sanchez's arm and arm strength. His fastball sits at 92-95 mph and touches 97-98 when he dials it up, while his slider gives him a second plus pitch. He gets a nice downward plane on his pitches, so that batters find it hard to get any sort of lift on his offerings.
The Bad: Five years into his professional career, Sanchez has never thrown more than 123 innings in a season due to various injuries and conditioning issues. He's had problems staying in shape, and he loses velocity and break on his pitches as games get into the middle innings, leaving many to project him as a reliever.
The Irrelevant: In the first four innings of games, batters hit .172 off Sanchez, but .301 thereafter.
In A Perfect World, He Becomes: A power pitcher – role to be determined by need.
Gap Between What He Is Now, And What He Can Be: Low – The Yankees insist that Sanchez will remain a starter, which means he's beginning the year at Triple-A Scranton.

2007-02-21 15:56:46
69.   mikeplugh
The thing is Jim, BP gets labeled as a statistical think tank, and that's only one part of the story. The same can be said for SABR. SABR is far from a metrics based organization. It's full of historians and traditionalists too. BP is famous for all Davenport's work and PECOTA, etc....but they also rely on things that have stood the test of time for decades. Clippard is listed as 6'3" and 170lbs. Sanchez is listed at 6'6" and 230. Clippard has a long delivery that doesn't generate much power, while Sanchez' delivery is very repeatable and the ball explodes out of his hand, even on his breaking ball.

Again, I'm with you on the undervaluing of Clippard, but there are at least legitimate reasons that go beyond metrics.

2007-02-21 15:58:32
70.   OldYanksFan
"Chad Curtis publicly criticized Jeter for laughing it up with A-Rod, coincidentally enough, during a brawl with the Mariners in 1999, Jeter never spoke to Curtis again, which in turn influenced the Yankees to trade the outfielder"

"When Jeter separated his shoulder in a 2003 collision at third base with Ken Huckaby, he bitterly blamed the Blue Jays catcher for what was an innocent, hustling play by the backstop, and refused attempts by Huckaby to call and apologize."

"Jeter knew A-Rod was waiting at his house, but refused to cut short a meal and made Rodriguez squirm for hours. When the two finally met, a teary-eyed Rodriguez asked for forgiveness. But that forgiveness has never really come"

Ouch. Very definite chinks in the Jeter armor.

2007-02-21 16:13:08
71.   mikeplugh
70 I think Chad Curtis got in Jeter's face in the clubhouse about it actually. It wasn't that he criticized him publically, per se. At the time, I thought, "Who the Hell is Chad Curtis to get in Jeter's face?" So I have no different feelings about it now.

The Huckaby thing seems cold, even for Jeter, so I'm guessing there's more to it than we know.

I won't get into the A-Rod thing.

Why has this whole thing become "pick at Jeter's apparent character flaws"? Has DJ ever given Yankee fans a reason to complain about him? The answer to this is simply, "The tabloids are driving the story to sell papers." Anything "Jeter", or anything "A-Rod" sells papers. Controversy also sells papers, so whoever digs up the biggest controversy that involves both of them wins. It's sick.

2007-02-21 16:20:32
72.   mikeplugh
71 Check out the way I spelled "publicly".

publically

I've been living in Japan too long.

2007-02-21 16:22:00
73.   dianagramr
72

could have been worse ... you could have dropped the first L

2007-02-21 16:23:16
74.   yankz
Aw man, we were so close to keeping a threat Arod free.
2007-02-21 16:23:27
75.   yankz
thread*...Freud was right.
2007-02-21 16:33:02
76.   Chyll Will
75 At least your OT comments don't force the expression and consideration of serious observations about important matters at hand...
2007-02-21 16:58:29
77.   Chyll Will
71 Didn't someone here predict the public castigation of Jeter was at hand or coming very soon? None of this should come as any surprise. Neither Jeter nor Alex deserve the analysis that they are subjected to on a regular basis, but since so many peoples' jobs depend on how well they stand out from the noxious cloud of sportswriters who neither know nor take the time to know a player personally... yet feel absolutely free to generate speculation about that player's personal life, we're supposed to bob our heads and agree with their expert and oh-so educated opinion and feed into the economic miasma of tabloid journalism and broadcasting.

I don't blame Jeter for not talking to these cretins. I don't blame A-Rod for getting the shyt off his chest and effect telling the media to go blow themselves. Essentially, they're both saying the same thing. Eff off, let us play baseball, get a real job. If Jeter and A-Rod beat the crap out of each other before the game started, then they both went out and hit a grand slam and set the record for double plays in one game, I want to read about what they did in the game and say, "If beating the crap out of each other makes them co-MVPs, then Vive Le Dynasty!!!"

I want Jeter to beat the nearest batter for the crown by twenty-five points and win the Gold Glove. I want A-Rod to hit sixty-five home runs and drive in 200 runs and win the Gold Glove. I want Pavanomas to become Pavlov (make 'em drool) and win 20 games and pitch 250 innings and kick asinine on the mound and beat Mussina at Scrabble. And I want Scrabble to hit better than .223 while manning a Gold Glove corner. I want Melky to force Matsui to the bench, where he can become the greatest film director of all time.

But most importantly, I want the fishwrap sportswriters to (TinyHyphen) up!! Is that too much to ask??

2007-02-21 17:22:57
78.   mikeplugh
The tabloid guys are enough to make Randy Johnson seem like a sympathetic character. Almost.
2007-02-21 17:44:38
79.   Chyll Will
78 Randy's uncomfortable in his own skin. The tabloid guys are like seasonal skin rash. Right now, it's winter itch for everyone.

But I don't leave it just on them either. You can hardly flip the channel without some hollowhead quoting one of those rags or trying to craft a dig of their own. My thing is, when you focus on problems this way, you give power to them. I hate to say it, but Joe might actually be the only thing standing between winning and total meltdown for the whole team. If I were Bernie or Roger, would I seriously come back to this? Ummm...

2007-02-21 17:57:14
80.   Jim Dean
67 68 Thanks!

The only thing that puts Sanchez above Clippard is those radar gun readings and his physical size.

But if you're going to weight those things so heavily, why even bother looking at the mL numbers?

Further that size and pitch speed for Sanchez seems to actually hurt him:

Five years into his professional career, Sanchez has never thrown more than 123 innings in a season due to various injuries and conditioning issues.

By almost every performance based indicator, the BP guys got this one wrong. And based on their history of top 100's it's not the first or even fiftieth time, nor will it be the last. Smart people acting pretty dumb IMHO.

It's not just the undervaluing of Clippard that gets my goat, it's the overvaluing of guys like Sanchez and even at this point, Chamberlain, Betances, and especially Tabata.

2007-02-21 18:11:41
81.   Chyll Will
80 Yeah Jim, but why does it matter? How does the ranking affect the won-loss column or their actual stats? Let them be undervalued, like Wang and Cano, so they end up on the roster in the Bronx and kick-asinine.
2007-02-21 19:05:01
82.   Chyll Will
(Sniff, sniff) I hope I do not offend...
2007-02-21 19:53:29
83.   Chyll Will
(okay, since nobody's here and that means there's nobody to care, I might as well close the dangling participle that was left hangin' earlier...)

Extremely Horrible Pun #2 Warning!

So I checked in Childcraft for the answer to that burning question, "what do Gerber and people with prostate issues have in common?" and it seemed like more than a few people rode around it like a huge pothole on Main St., but if you have a morbid curiosity about the totally G-rated and not-meant-to-offend-anyone answer to that question, send a self-addressed stamped envelope along with a check addressed to CASH (my d.b.a.) to the address below.

Or you can just ask...

2007-02-21 19:54:03
84.   yankz
Erm...if Matsui's directing videos, I don't think they're safe for this site.
2007-02-21 20:05:57
85.   Bama Yankee
83 I was afraid to ask earlier, but now I have to know...
2007-02-21 21:05:10
86.   Chyll Will
85 Meh. They both have strained peas...
2007-02-21 21:20:22
87.   Chyll Will
84 I didn't say to post his movies here >;)
2007-02-21 22:04:54
88.   yankz
Cano is no Jeter, Arod charges notwithstanding:

"I would say that I kept in better shape because I kept working hard," Cano said. "If I don't play, I'd just sit at home and do something after the season."

2007-02-22 05:03:59
89.   Jim Dean
81 No, you're exactly right. It just annoys me that smart people would go through all that trouble just to rank "talent" and "hype" and body types. I'm just glad I've never wasted my money on it.
2007-02-22 05:55:27
90.   yankz
"Cano batted .398 as a No. 7 hitter -- a spot that he seems ticketed for in Torre's loaded lineup."

So who bats 8th? Guess it would have to be Posada, right?

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