Without sounding too cold, I think the Yankees got a lucky "break" with Raul Chavez's misfortune. Of course, the other options aren't much better, but Chavez' bat is historically bad.

I can't help but juxtapose Mariano's threat to wear another uniform with Bernie's declining the minor league contract and coming to Spring Training to try out for the team.

While much is made of locker room presence and good influence on the team, there is little that outsiders have to witness this until some sort of retrospective on a season past is in print. There is a time to talk and a time not to talk and the intelligent among us seem to know when that is. All that said I can't believe we have a team without Bernie.

First time I heard about Bernie and the minor league offer and having to make the team, I didn't feel good about it. Still don't. It's a mistake and I'm prepared to have the Good Old Bernie brand seared into my forehead on this. Especially when this gets translated into Minky on first or whoever the 12th pitcher is sitting out in the bullpen (Chris Britton?). You have to be shitting me. I never thought of myself as GM material but I'm rethinking that as I write.

Zambrano will either get his contract or be traded midseason if the cubbies are not in it (did I use a conditional clause there, I apologize). No where near the enthusiasm I have for Johan my Johan but I can see the Z Man in pinstripes, if the Mets don't do the honorable thing by him. Don't want to see him in a sawks outfit, so without Roger or Johan, he's our guy.

I'm no so sanguine about how badly the sawks suck this year. Wake had an off year last year and should be back to his normal 200 innings this year. Schwill will get 15 wins; Josh "Bring It ON" Beckett has had a year to think, which is about what the nitwit requires. I love the reports that Matsusucka is working on a two seamer in case his low 90's fastball doesn't work. Sawks are starting with a six man rotation in April May so the Big Nipper will feel at home. Try importing the Seibu Lions cheering section complete with trumpets and other noise makers for group cheers, Theo. I feel a choke coming on. Popplearm is going to be good, we know that.

So Scwill vs Moose is a draw; Wang over Becket any day; Wake over Igawa until we know better;Matsusucka draws the nod over Andy; PoppleArm draws the nod over whoever our #5 is because. Well, just because.

With Julian Tavarez anchoring middle relief and Pinero in the bullpen -- ahh now I feel OK. Sorry about that. Hope I didn't upset anyone. Sawks pitching does suck, doesn't it?

This all dramatically changes for us when the other shoe drops. For those who say Roger can stay in Houston, where do you draw your sense of calm? Is it something chemical?

I will not feel calm until
(1) Phil Hughes has gone 3 and 0 with 25 strikeouts in 21 and 2/3 innings OR
(2) Johan and Derek are posing for pictures

I will try to stop talking to myself as I walk to work in the morning when Roger comes on board.

The audio clips at LoHud are a great addition. Here are a few takeaways:

1) Igawa is guaranteed a spot in the starting rotation for the entire year. Torre said that he heard Igawa has "fire in his belly", so even if he pitches like Ed Whitson, he'll keep his spot.

2) Torre seems married to the idea of going with 12 pitchers. Personally, I think that is overkill. I'd much rather commit only 11 spots to the staff and rotate the last one using a Scranton shuttle. Bruney, Britton, Rasner and Karstens could all be shuttled back and forth as needed. I don't see the need to keep 12 hands on deck, at least not until it is proven that the starters aren't going to give you length.

3) I think Cashman is treating the Bernie situation way too casually. I still think Bernie can contribute to the team as a right handed bat (some pinch hitting and maybe 20-30 games as a DH). Even if you think Bernie is completely done, however, he does deserve more respect. In his interview, Cashman basically said he hasn't spoken with Bernie and the fact that he isn't coming to camp indicates that he hasn't accepted the invitation. While Torre was more diplomatic, he too hasn't spoken to Bernie. While the Yankees don't "owe" Bernie anymore money or a roster spot, they do owe him "respect". I would have liked to hear Cashman extol Bernie's contributions and say something like "we really hope he'll come to camp and try to make the team". Instead, he gave the impression that he doesn't really care one way or the other.

Please. The Yankees showed Bernie respect when they game his a one-year deal after 2005, when he was already done, and allowed him to get a standing O every time he came to the plate in the Bronx. It's time for Bernie hold up his end of the bargain.

Todd Pratt is going north with the team unless he is absolutely awful.

Cash is handling the Bernie and Rivera situations perfectly.

It really bums me out that pitchers are catchers are reporting and the stories have thus far been:
- Bernie is upset with the Yankees
- Mo is upset with the Yankees over the treatment of Bernie and his contract
- Posada is upset with the Yankees over the treatment of Bernie and Mo
- Torre is a lame duck manager and will it affect the players...

Ugh! I have been looking forward to this and excited for the season to start, and this is the media coverage we get.

Bernie's 2005 was an aberration. He had an OPS+ of 110 in 2004 and was at 101 last year (and was very useful in June, July and August, when the Yankees needed him most). He is still at least a major league average bat who can be even more productive if used mostly as a right hander. Also, the Yankees didn't do Bernie any favors by signing him last season. Any team that wasted ABs on Terence Long couldn't have been in a position to give out charity.

It both amuses and bothers me that so many Yankee fans are dismissing Bernie so easily. I just hope those same fans are not the ones who always complain about players not being loyal when they bolt for a better contract. Winning is clearly very important, but so is honoring your great players. Even if there is no room for Bernie, it would be nice if Cashman treated the situation with more diplomacy.

6 If Mo and Posada aren't happy with Bernie's treatment, what does that tell you? The Red Sox have typically been the team that bungles relations with their aging superstars. It would be a shame if the Yankees follow the same path.

The reason why it's a good idea to carry 12 pitchers, me thinks, is because there's no one in the Yankee lineup whom you need to pinch-hit for. Ideallly. You can pinch hit for Mieknkdywizkthiz with a righty, but you'll never pinch hit for any of the other starters in the lineup. Carryng 12 pitchers makes sense to me. The times you will pinch hit are when Posada is being spelled, Melky is playing for Matsui, Abreu or Damon, or when ARod is playing and it's the 7th inning or later then you bring in Cairo for him.

3 1. That is interesting and good to hear. Hopefully it remains true.

5 I don't see how it's anyone other than Pratt. And I thought they couldn't do worse than John Kelly Fasano. When they should be better about limiting Jorge's C time, they'll be driving him even harder.

7 I'm sure you'll find some Yankee fans around the web that would agree with you. But not here. IMHO you don't give a roster spot to someone who will bat maybe 100 times and who has no defensive abilities (Fat Papi took second on a ground ball to right). If they're going to carry a 5th "OF" they might as well carry Kevin Thompson who would come close to equaling the production from the rightside and can play any OF position while he can also steal a base or three if needed. Bernie could maybe find more work on another team, but not this one with 3 1B's. Last year was his swan song.

Thanks for the memories Bernie!

8 "The Red Sox have typically been the team that bungles relations with their aging superstars."

i've been getting a lot of flack from sox fans regarding the "disrespect" the yankees have allegedly shown mr. williams.

all i have to do is remind them that trot "bury me in my sox uni" nixon is playing for the indians this year and that his #7 was already given away... to jd drew.

i'm having mixed feelings about bernie. i see both sides of the argument and will miss his presence. i'm sure that eventually it will all be smoothed over, possibly even having the #51 be the first to be retired at the new stadium.

10 You're missing the point. While I think there is room for Bernie, I can fully understand the argument against bringing him back. That doesn't mean, however, the Yankees as an organization couldn't have handled the situation better. All winter, Cashman kept putting the decision off, only to wind up extending a non-guaranteed invitation. Then, it turns out, neither Torre nor Cashman have actually spoken with Bernie about the situation. What's more, Cashman has made comments indicating a complete lack of interest in the matter.

Call me sentimental (to me baseball is a sentimental game that means a lot more than simply winning the World Series ever year), but I think Bernie deserves to be treated with the utmost respect, and that hasn't been the case.

8 It tells you that Mo and Po are letting sentiment cloud their thinking.

Cliff,

The Star Ledger had the Raul Chavez story a few weeks ago. I recall reading he's out for the season.

Bernie, ah, Bernie.

Tim Marchman offers a thoughtful take in the NY Sun today.

"For these reasons and more, what looks to be the end of Bernie Williams's career is a depressing note on which to start spring training."

"Don't hold anything against the Yankees; they've given Williams more years and more respect than any other team in baseball would have done for a similar player in similar circumstances."

"Williams was far too great in far too many ways for far too long for the end of his career to be anything but an occasion to celebrate that greatness."

Word.

11 The Red Sox legacy of shame is long...from Lynn to Fisk to Boggs, Vaughn, Clemens, Nomar, Pedro and Damon, the Red Sox have a track record of cutting bait with their biggest stars (and usually before they are past their primes).

12 Respect is a two-way street. Perhaps neither Torre nor Cashman has spoken with Bernie, but has Bernie made any efforts to contact them?

In the meantime, the one insider I trust completely is Pete Abraham, and until Pete says this is a big deal, as far as I'm concerned, its not.

This all reminds me of the Mattingly situation back in '96. It blew over then with no problems, it will blow over now.

16 According to Torre, they have played phone tag and each has had to cancel a get together. Why should the burden be on Bernie anyway. He DOES want to return. That much is clear. If Cashman and/or Torre don't want him back, they should have at least went out of their way to meet with him and explain the situation instead of extending a spring invite through his agent (and the media).

Bernie's problem is that he has no position in the field (and he's not good at pinch hitting). If Torre would have tried Bernie at 1B several years ago (he has long opposed moving players from the OF to the IF), Bernie might not have been in this predicament.

12 16

Shaun you stole the words right out of my mouth on the "two-way street" thing.

I can't say that Cash has been overly graceful in his handling of the matter. But then again, Bernie should have the good grace to walk away. He's been saying he would go to another team if the Yankees didn't want him since November -- he doesn't need the money and he's not going to get into the Hall with one more mediocre season as a DH in KC. He's handled it very badly himself.

6 Well, it's either that, or ARod; take your pick :)

11 And don't forget to rub it in that Trot was the only one on the 2004 team that came up through the organization.

The Yanks this year will have four players from the 1996-00 dynasty with the team that came up through the organization (Jeter, Jorge, Mo, Pettitte). Add in the new kids (Melky, Wang, Cano, [Phillips]) and they're at 7-8 for the roster.

19 That's odd logic. If Bernie wants to play, and another team is willing to give him a contract, why should he simply walk away? If playing for another team was truly his desire, he could have made the decision months ago (or even back in 1998). Bernie has been bending over backwards to stay with the team, so I have no idea how anyone could describe his conduct as lacking in loyalty.

2 "Big Nipper?" Come on man, it's not 1943. Cool it on that, please.

We all would have liked to see Bernie less in limbo, but by all indications Cashman was pretty straight forward with Bernie early in the offseason expressing that his chances for returning in '07 were not good.

Figure it would have taken winter injuries to at least two or three outfielders for Bernie to get any consideration. Nobody got hurt, thankfully, but here we are without Bernie.

If it was up to Torre, Bernie would be on his way to camp, but he's deferring to Cashman, and clearly #51 is not in Cash's plans.

It was kinda coldhearted of Cash to assign Bernie's Tampa locker to Veras without speaking to Bernie, who is still technically invited to camp. That was surprising to me, and disappointing.

The ship is sailing on without Bernie.

I just hope this quickly becomes less about blaming, and more about celebrating Bernie's many accomplishments and contributions as a great Yankee.

Of course Bernie wants to play. That's what aging players want. Who else in MLB will want him? A light hitting, sub-par defending OF who struggles against RHP. This isn't Little League. Not everyone gets to play. Since Bernie's skills are limited he needs to either accept the ST invite and prove his detractors wrong or shut up.

24 See, I read Veras differently. They had a a packed clubhouse and had to put him somewhere. Rather than give prime real estate to someone more deserving, they left open that possibility that Bernie comes into camp (and Veras gets moved to a bathroom stall.)

More disconcerting to me was Pratt going next to Jorge rather than Nieves.

Wow, there's really nothing to talk about, huh?

Hopefully in a day or two it's everyone raving about Igawa and Hughes and Melky finding a power stroke.

At least they didn't assign Bernie's locker to Doug Out. Kick in the nuts that woulda been.

26 "Hopefully in a day or two it's everyone raving about Igawa and Hughes ..."

Yeah - and Pavano wow'ing everybody with his incredible "stuff" and imaculate control. Posada will be saying things like "He's got the best stuff in camp this year".

A-Rod will resume his practice of grabbing Jeter from behind and lifting him off the ground after every win, and Jeter will grin and bear it, all the while looking at the photog crew and saying "See? We really love each other.".

Today, Jorge gets a V-Day card from the Big Unit, bringing tears to his eyes. He text messages Pedro to see if the Pajamagram showed up on time. Joe got a box of Lindt chocolates from his pal Buddy Groom, an annual tradition that started after Buddy left the club a couple years ago.

:-)

No doubt NY is a hard place to play, what with all the media attention and constant scrutiny. Sometimes, it's a hard place to be a fan too. Some days I just tune out all the blah blah blah and watch the games. Man - I can't wait for the games to start.

27 You know its quiet in Yankeeland when:

-all we have to talk about at the Banter is who's assigned to which locker for spring training.

-Jim Dean has two posts that only tangentially refer to the BUC situation

AND

-A-Rod isn't the story of the day (hat tip to whoever pointed that out in yesterday's thread)

29 To which I reply: Todd Pratt!?

WTF!?

26 ...ditto...

This must have been a horrible winter for sports media for most of this crap to be piled up at the spring training door. It's as if they all lit some paper bags full of (what?) and left them outside Cashman's office. I remember Shaun P. saying it was gonna be a long winter, but who knew it would be this bad?

Something tells me either we're not even getting a quarter of the real story, or this is going to be a (TinyHyphen) long season. Methinks the players themselves need to stop reading the fishwrap and fungo their radios until March 1. I'll wait for Petey Abe, thanks.

22 Yes but that misses the point entirely -- how many ways can we say this to you: WE DON'T WANT HIM.

He eats up a slot that we have better use for and once he gets that slot, Joe will keep putting him in the OF over Melky. As has been pointed out numerous times, this is a guy who Papi stretches singles into doubles on. He's a lousy OFer and a mediocre hitter at this stage of his career. By your logic, we should just suck that up and put him on the 25 man as a reward for his previous efforts. I say no way to that.

The Yankees would love for him to retire now and give him the homage he deserves. Bernie doesn't want to retire. It's simple as that. If that's what Bernie wants, then he should go play somewhere as a backup DH -- but he shouldn't blame his career-ending season in Podunk on the Yankees' lack of respect. He's choosing the way he's going out.

23 You mean he wasn't talking about Al?

Since it doesn't look like I'd be interupting much, here's a follow up on my PECOTA conversation with Jim from yesterday's Fifth Starter post:

http://tinyurl.com/ye7znp

Meanwhile, 30, save it for tomorrow.

26 "A-Rod will resume his practice of grabbing Jeter from behind and lifting him off the ground after every win, and Jeter will grin and bear it, all the while looking at the photog crew and saying "See? We really love each other."."

And if that photo crew is from Bravo, it will make John Amaechi's book the equivalent of the Dead Sea Scrolls... or fishwrap if A-Rod's next book comes out soon.

34 Thanks. Somone posted that here when you were in the editing room.

And I think that's what convinced me PECOTA can be very useful for hitters as that's a superb correlation. Indeed, all are very good.

For pitching, either they (or someone else) needs to greatly refine the approach or recognize that the projections will be decent but never great.

30 Just messing with Shaun but I do plan on sitting on my hands with that gasoline soaked rag in my mouth. Unless someone starts saying Pratt was as good as they were going to get. In which case I might throw sparks and hope one catches.

36 Andy Phillips should have learned how to play BUC in the off season.

I think everyone is over reacting here.

What is Mo supposed to say??? He doesnt have a contract after this yr and he obviously wants to continue to play.

He'd be committing bargaining suicide if he said the Yanks are the only team he'd play for.

BTW, 14 every reference to Chavez's broken hand I've seen says only that he won't be ready at the beginning of spring training. That's a far cry from being out all season. That said, Chavez is a largely worthless player, so all that really matters is that there's no real chance of him winning the Opening Day job. By the second week of the season everyone should have forgotten about him, much like Koyie Hill last year.

With all the Mo-leaving talk I can't help but think about when he was initially called to be the closer. If there had been as much media back then can you imagine the outcry? (Wetteland had an awesome '96 and even better '97-'98) Could they have Mo's replacement in the (quoting Jim Dean) "60 RHRP they have? I'm just sayin'. I firmly believe that Mo will come back, but you can't get too attached to these players. There has probably been more HOF's who spent their best years as Yankees and finished with another franchise than all other teams combined. It's the price of winning and it is, after all, a business. Everybody knows it. Don't feel sorry for guys that have earned upwards of $100M in pinstripes.

Look: http://tinyurl.com/2e96nz

41 The Beyonce portion was disappointing. It had such promise.

39 Pretty sure someone reported Chavez out for the season, perhaps it was in the the 23 page "Jim Dean State of the Yankees BUC Report" (for subscribers only).

Whatevs.

Koyie Hill. Good times.

40 Easy. If you look back at Mo's mL stats and his 1995 ALDS:

3G 1-0 5.3IP 3H 1BB 8K

and 1996 season:

61G 8-3 107.7IP 73H 34BB(!) 130K(!)

and post-season:

8G 1-0 14.3IP 10H 1R 3BB 10K

you'd realize that the outcry wouldn't have been great and wasn't. Indeed, I remember feeling very comfortable with the decision. Wettland consistently drove me nuts by putting people on base (especially the leadoff hitter) and then working around them. Mo's track record then is better than anything that the 63 RHRP pitchers currently sport. He fully arrived in 1996.

43 It was news to me today. Besides, why would I