Always seemed to me that everything goes the way it does for Barry because he's a selfish, egotistical schmuck -- and it can't help but come out whenever he steps in front of a camera because he can't hide his complete disdain for everyone that isn't Barry.

But that's just my opinion and I could be totally wrong. :-)

Sure, I'd rather see Clemens back in NY than wearing the putrid "B" cap again, but that's about the extent of my interest in him.

He always seemed like a Yankees rental to me.

Not that there's anything wrong with renting a Hall of Famer who can still bring it, but I'm more excited about the possibilties for our young pitchers.

0 "His head must be ready to explode. Speaking of which, I was thinking about Barry Bonds last night..."

i've heard people claim that bond's head is massive (i don't see it, but i've heard it several times), was that an intentional shot? (no pun intended.)

2 i'm with you, sliced bread. i never was able to see clemens as a yankee. i usually don't enter into the whole "true yankee" nonsense, but it always felt to me that he was just swinging by for a couple of rings and that was the extent of his involvement with the team. perhaps this is because while i've always appreciated his talents and abilities, i have never been too fond of him.

2 Yup - rental was exactly it. He was another SOB - but he was our SOB for that time. And while he helped, I felt like it was more the Yankee dynasty getting him his rings, rather than the other way around.

He'll help again - but my bet too is that he ends up in Boston. They'll give him the same money, more leeway, and he'll close that chapter.

Clemens didn't come to us as a free agent. Sure he approved the deal but it seemed to me at least that he embraced the tradition and the City and that he left everything he had on the mound each and every time he took it. My reservations about bringing him back have to do with stuff, league, age and blocking youngsters not with what he brings to the park or his attitude. In fact, I wish we had a few more guys who bring the same red assed attitude that Roger does. Besides that I don't think I could handle the sanctimonious holier than thou horse-hockey that is sure to leak out of Bean-town and the 4-letter Whore of Babylon if he were to head back to the Sawx.

I think I maybe talking myself into hoping he comes back.

I think it's more likely he'll end up in NY. I just don't see him agreeing to be on the same team as Schilling. Boston's already blown a hell of a wad of dough. The whole buddy movie thing with Pettite seems legit.

But I certainly wouldn't bet my house on that scenario. It's certainly within the realm of reality that he'll go to Boston. If that's the case, I imagine we'll see some looney tunes trade for Santana.

5

"Besides that I don't think I could handle the sanctimonious holier than thou horse-hockey that is sure to leak out of Bean-town..."

Yep.

"and the 4-letter Whore of Babylon if he were to head back to the Sawx."

Huh???

7 "and the 4-letter Whore of Babylon if he were to head back to the Sawx."

Huh???

i think he's referring to t-h-e-o? maybe?

ESPN

9 That's what I figured . .

8 My Boston Whore of Babylon would be spelled L-A-R-R-Y.

"4-letter Whore of Babylon"

C-U-R-T?

11 i, too, was thinking C-U-R-T

Curt, oh Loudmouth Curt, you ask him for the time and he'll give you the history of clocks.

9 Yeah, ESPN fits better. The whole Rocket goes home would be disgusting.

But you know, I hope he goes to Boston. Then when we beat their asses - again - they have no more excuses. Plus, it would make for better baseball.

I would like to see Boston sign Clemens and then the Yanks pound him in the ALCS(or the Red Sox miss the playoffs). I have a feeling that he will struggle against the AL East lineups. In 2000, Clemens was excellent in the playoffs, pitching 2 gems. In his other playoff appearances he was pretty average, at least in my selective memory.

Always nice to look at baseballrefence at times like these:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/clemero02.shtml

That M's game in 2000 was a masterpiece. But he never did pitch well against Boston, or Oakland, in the post-season. Otherwise - money in 2001 against ARI.

We could beat his ass today. He'll be smart to stay in Houston.

I think he'll go to Beantown too. I posted about just that scenario at COH a few hours back. It makes so much sense. The only thing that would stand in the way is Pettitte, any of the other Yankees he's close to (Jeter is supposedly close to Rocket, as is Torre), and the idea that the Yankees offense is the best in baseball.

The thing that goes against it is the fact that he's already retired in a Yankee uniform once, and the 2nd go around may be awkward for that reason. The Sox is a more natural closure. The Red Sox are also more likely to massage him and fawn all over him, while the Yankees have too many other big name guys that it won't happen to the same degree.

We'll see....

15 "... then the Yanks pound him in the ALCS."

Mr. Lincoln said many wise and famous things, among my favorites is "the hen is the wisest of all of God's creatures because it only crows after the egg has been laid."

Does anyone remember an article coming out (I read it this offseason) about how Clemens said he wanted to be a closer in his final year? I can't find it now but when I read it, it made me think of him having a better fit in Boston.

I don't think Boston needs the pitching and I agree with WSPORTER that he would block alot of young Yankee pitchers. But I wouldn't be against him coming to the Yankees for the last half of the season if he was consistent and healthy.

18 Very nice, sport. But did Lincoln say anything about rooting that bitch on?

19 i read one article that mentioned the possibility of roger closing for the red sox.

i have read a ton of articles that mention his desire to pitch on a schedule that suits him, so that he can be with his wife and K-lings.

the likelihood that he'll want to visit texas often diminishes the chances that he'll close. (in my opinion, anyway.)

Thanks YFIB - I just found this on USA Today from 11/22:

"Here is the chance that Roger will consider becoming the Red Sox closer: NO CHANCE," agent Randy Hendricks said in an email. Clemens would almost certainly want to remain a starter, in part so he can be with his family in between outings."

And I don't see the Yankees being flexible on him just packing up and leaving between his starts... but that's just me.

20 I would doubt it. He did however say "If I had six hours to chop down a tree, I'd spend the first four sharpening the axe." So I'd say let's get the best guys available in here to fill out the rotation, including what we already have. If Clemens is that then let's get him, if he's not, then let's don't.

22 yes. all the talk in the papers(for whatever that is worth)is indeed saying that the sox would be more lienient with his schedule. i say that if the guy's making $16M+, he should "gut it out" and at least attend his team's games... but that is just me.

Hey Bronx Banter, Happy New Year!

Was wondering if anyone has been to Spring Training recently. I am going to Tampa for the first week of March with my girlfriend and she has given the ok to spend alot of time watching baseball.

What I can expect? The game tickets are more expensive than I expected. Will I be able to scalp tix cheaper on game days?

Is there more to do than just attending the actual games? Is there opportunity to walk around the practice facilities and get close to the players?

thanks in advance

buffalo charlie

23 Oh, Lincoln sure was a thinker. I wouldn't object much to Clemens' return to pinstripes. But it would be more fun if he lands in Boston, cause I think this Yankee line up would smack him around good. In his last AL stint the patient teams killed him.

25 Check out PeteAbe's post on going to spring training, sometime last week (i think). Apparently the tickets go very quickly and most games are sold out. Good luck.

#25, send an email to PeteAbe, no joke. He offered help for people going down to spring training. i'm hoping i can get some time off and head down mid-march.

heh.

8, 9 Aha, got it. Both make sense, really. Sorry, I'm a little slow today; coffee not strong enough this morning.

[27,28]

thanks!

I wouldn't mind seeing Roger in pinstripes this year. To me, it would tarnish his time in NY if he wound up going back to Boston. Houston, I could live with -- but I think Roger is fed up with the lack of run support there.

32 speaking as someone who is neither a fan of roger clemens or the boston red sox, but also lives smack dab in the eye of the sox media hurricane, i can honestly say that a clemens-to-boston scenario does not sound the least bit appealing to me. (neither does a yankee reunion. i guess i'm pulling for the 'stros on this one.)

I don't really get it when people criticize players for being "hired guns" or "only here to get some rings." Who cares? I mean, sure it would be nice to imagine that in the offseason Cano and Melky and Jeter all pile in Cano's Corrolla and do a road trip to see the world biggest rubber band ball.

Or that Posada and Mo, go out for Yoo Hoo's and play Playstation after games. But these guys are all professionals. They go where the money is best first, and the chance of success is greatest.

It's not like Jeter took a huge hometown discount to spend his whole career with the Yankees.

All this talk that somehow Boston would be more accommodating to Clemens' 'family leave' schedule is pure speculation, isn't it?

How do we know that Cashman wouldn't do the same if Roger coming on board in July boosts our WS chances by about 20%?

Perhaps the Yankees could get some sort of discount on the private jet if Pettite wanted to go back & see his family as well?

34 I LOVE Yoo-Hoo. Or at least I did when I was a child. My Uncle "L'Brotha" would stand on the sidewalk in front of the house when we lived in North Tarrytown, just standing there until I peeked out the window and saw him. Then I'd come running out and he'd always say the same thing, "William, ol' boy!" Then we'd walk to the corner store up Beekman Avenue by the park and he'd always buy me a Yoo-Hoo. I suppose if you're a child, you either loved or hated the stuff, no in-between. I'd dream about swimming in Yoo-Hoo.

When you get older, it tastes different. I'd drink Hi-C by the can when I was a kid,, now I can't stand the sight of it. 3 Musketeers were the same for a while (They must have recently discovered their mistake and went back to their old formula) and Twinkees... sigh...

All that to say this: Roger coming back may not be who everyone remembers him to be, same as Pettitte. I like to remember how good they were back then, but as tantalizing as they seem now (coming from a very weak NL), we might be holding our breaths a little too early. I'm waiting until the beginning of the season to see how things really pan out with those two. Hopefully they're more Yoo-Hoo than Hi-C.

34 Interesting how people don't mention David Cone or Jimmy Key in the same breath as Clemens - regarding 'hired guns' for the Yankees, that is.

IIRC, that's basically what they were as well. Granted Key and Cone were both here at the start of the dynasty, but neither of them were farm products or hung around for any great length of time...

I think Clemens gets a bad rap because 1) he came on board when the Yankees already HAD 2 titles under their belt and 2) he's staked out this nice little 'half season of work' arrangement and teams are actually buying into it.

34 As for the Big Pros you mentioned, none of them likely had a chance to think about playing somewhere else as the Yankees threw big money at them so they didn't have to, and rightfully so. Who could picture even Steinbrenner taking a chance on Mo or Jeter or Posada leaving in their prime? They did talk about opportunity or being wanted, but that's shop talk for "Hey, we both know I deserve big money, so it's not an issue. Whenever you're ready..."

The only two Dynasty players who got a chance to go for the money were Pettitte and Bernie. Bernie took less to stay because he wanted the Yankees to want him. Pettitte left for virtually the same reason. In either case, money was not the first factor.

Even Cone came on with a "hired gun" rep, but left as a legend. I just kinda hope Roger doesn't do what Cone did in the end, but if the results are the same, I could live with it.

37 Jinx!!!

17 "...and the idea that the Yankees offense is the best in baseball"

For a guy like Clemens, isn't that a reason to go to Boston -- to take on the best offense in baseball?

i think i may very well be the only person on the planet who isn't really interested in roger clemens and what he does anymore. first because i think it's all a ploy for attention and fawning when he has absolutely no intention of leaving texas again; second because he may be one of the all time greats but he's still getting old and who wants to pay the guy $25 million to pitch like 12 games next season, what with not joining the team till whenever he damn well feels like it and not pitching unless his kid doesn't have a little league game; third because if he were to come back to boston the cognitive dissonance might kill me; and fourth because it's usually all just a bunch of hoopla over nothing and these clemens discussions happen every year, if not more often, with little in the way of actual results. honestly, i hope he doesn't come back here--to either the sox or yanks.

34 I hear what you're saying, but I think what fans (unlike yourself) respond to is a feeling that some players genuinely want to play for their team, while others are just here for the money.

re: your Jeter example
Jeter didn't have to take a discount to stay here. The team recognized that he was one of the best players in its history and paid him accordingly.

Clemens, for all his rubbing of the Babe's bronze head, always seemed to me like a guy who was just passing through NY. I didn't begrudge him for that, but I never really embraced him as a Yankee, and I wasn't the least bit surprised when he unretired to play for Houston.

To me, certain guys will be Yankees for life, even after they leave. Either they will be enshrined in the Hall of Fame as Yankees, or will be forever embraced by Yanks fans.

When Pettitte went to Houston, everybody knew he'd always be remembered as a Yankee.
I still think of Soriano as a Yankee, even Nick Johnson.

It's not logical to regard players this way, but if I make an emotional connection to a player it colors my judgement of them, right down to the cap that I picture them wearing in my mind's eye.

37 Yeah, the Cone example is interesting. I'll always think of him as a Met, but he was a great Yankee and even the team spokeman for a while. Even though he and Clemens were both labelled "hired gun" I think Yanks fans were generally more accepting of Coney than Clemens simply because they found him more likeable - but that's just me being a subjective and irrational Yanks fan again.

41 You're not alone, beth. I hope Clemens either stays retired or announces he's going back to Houston.

I understand that half of this overly-hyped crap is the media's fault - nothing else going on, so this becomes a big story. And while part of it is Clemens's fault for keeping quiet and waiting, he's got the right to do that, and its probably in his best financial interest to wait. But, like MFD said in 7, that last thing I want is another 4-letter Whore of Babylon 24-hour-a-day, 7-days-a-week reporting-fest on "Will Clemens got o Boston or NY?"

For Jimmy Dean, from Heyman's SI.com article:

"The Yankees offered to pay Arizona more money -- as much as $4 million -- had it been willing to include one of two other highly-regarded pitching prospects, either Micah Owings or Dana Eveland in the package (they got Ross Ohlendorf, Alberto Gonzalez, Steven Jackson and Luis Vizcaino). But Arizona, which covets prospects and has done a nice job to keep its best ones, decided they'd rather retain both those pitchers and take only $2 million from the Yankees despite its longstanding money difficulties."

-So ease up on the "Cashman COULD have gotten better prospects from the DBacks. Its not like he didn't try..."

Has Clemens said anything publicly this offseason?
I'm very curious as to the extent the Mitchell Investigation might play into his decision on 2007.
I could see the possibility of an agreement between the investigators and baseball that findings on retired players not be released, opening a door for Clemens to saunter out into the sunset, unsullied.

44 Now how is JD going to complain?

45 "...opening a door for Clemens to saunter out into the sunset, unsullied." I wonder what Sully would say about that.

46 By saying that even though the Yankees apparently asked for more and offered more money, they still were only looking for pitchers and not for BUC and first basemen. I'm not saying he doesn't have a point, but I'm not nearly as heartbroken by the deal as he is.

As for Clemens... I've gone back and forth on my thinking. First, the money it would take and the circus it would cause are not welcome additions to the 2007 Yankees (although maybe A-Rod would be off the bubble). However, if he still doesn't want to sign until midway through the year like last year... I say it's not worth it, especially when we have the guy many are saying is the next Roger Clemens who will probably be major league ready by June anyway.

Further, even though he pitched only half a season and even though it was against NL opponents, and even though his stats are very good.... he pitched into the seventh inning in just five of his starts (out of 19). He pitched no more than six innings in any of his last seven starts in 2006. With the inevitable uptick in ERA that comes from moving from the NL Central to the AL East, and the likely deterioration from signing a 45 year old pitcher... would we be paying $23 million for half a season of Jaret Wright?

Yuck. Pass.

according to a pittsburgh paper, gonzo/laroche talks still simmer, but melky is (thankfully) not part of any of this anymore...

jerome williams was brought up here the other day. he and our old "untouchable" - brandon claussen - were both just signed by the nationals...

i certainly won't complain if we get Rocket back at some point, but i won't be upset if he doesn't come back (or if he goes to boston), thinking our chances for postseason play and success are being hindered.

in fact, it might be really nice beating up on dice-k & rocket in the gross B uni's...

if Jim Dean isn't Rob Gee

and Rob Gee is Ron Burgundy

is Jim Dean... Stormer Sports?!

(snakes on a plane! die in a fire!)

I have doubts Clemens could pitch an entire year anymore (hense the half year seasons).

I have doubts Clemens could pitch well in the AL (there is a huge difference in numbers when he left the Yankees to go to Texas).

I have doubts Clemens could pitch for the Yankees specifically (I don't want him facing the Red Sox 4 or 5 times a year, and I don't want him causing distractions for all involved).

I am tired of his media whoring (even if it is only the media and not him at all).

I find it difficult to root for Clemens in general (always have).

I don't think any player deserves $16M for half a season of work, and I resent any player coming in via free agency, mid-season, after a whole lot of hoopla, so he can be seen as the savior the Yankees desperately needed.

At first, I was very much indifferent to signing Clemens. If we got him, whatever, if he went home, whatever too.

I would like nothing more for him to go to the Red Sox and suck monkey balls...since I doubt that would happen (I'm talking 6.00 ERA monkey balls), I'd rather he just go home and leave the rest of us alone.

50 You realize this begs the question:

Is thelarmis . . . Oliver Stone?!

Stormer pops up every so often. While Rob Gee