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Who's on First?
2006-12-01 05:44
by Alex Belth
Note: The Bronx Banter blog has moved to bronxbanterblog.com.

While there is still hope that the Yankees will persue Craig Wilson as their second first baseman, The Post reports that Shea Hillenbrand is still in the mix. Over at the Times, Tyler Kepner writes that the Bombers are also looking at one Julio Zuleta, a 31-year old who has played in Japan for the past three seasons. The chief reason the Yanks are curious about Zuleta is that he's faired well against D. Matsuzaka. Meanwhile, according to Newsday, Bernie Williams' future with the Yankees is more than a little uncertain.

Comments (76)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-12-01 06:05:31
1.   pistolpete
Cash, PLEASE don't sign anyone from Japan based on how well they do against Matsuzaka. That's just idiocy.

See: Enrique Wilson

2006-12-01 06:15:14
2.   RI Yankee
Just say no to Shea.
2006-12-01 06:17:53
3.   Shaun P
I'll be shocked if the Yanks carry 13 pitchers. That makes for a 3 man bench with a backup C, a backup IF, and Melky. There would be no platoon at first, just one guy, unless Craig Wilson is going to be both the backup catcher AND part of the 1B platoon. That would be an interesting bit of roster construction that seems beyond Mr. Torre's ability to manage it.

Bernie's future is cloudy with the Yanks because even with a 5 man bench, there is no room for Bernie.

2006-12-01 06:41:16
4.   Sliced Bread
1 Yup.
2 Ditto.
3 Word.
2006-12-01 07:09:31
5.   Jim Dean
Not sure if anyone else has seen this report:

http://tinyurl.com/ykslb7

Summary:
1) San Diego now the leader for Manny. Sux would prob get Peavy in return. Says they'd have the best rotation in baseball. I'd say they'd still have a ton of unknowns:

- Paps' high for innings pitched is ~120. And I think that was 2004.
- Wake, Beckett, and Tampon are maybe league average pitchers. Let's see them prove otherwise.
- I wanna see DM prove it in the majors.
- So Peavy could be the closest they have to a sure thing, and even then it's NL West to AL East. Good luck with that.

2) Tampon has been going around saying how great Nancy would be. Enjoy!

3) Tampon says that Manny told him he wants to be traded.

Otherwise, that report on Bernie is sad to me. He really thinks his role last year worked well. 3 Word indeed. Someone needs to sit him down and tell him it's over. Volunteers?

2006-12-01 07:14:09
6.   Rich Mahogany
I'm sure the fact that Zuleta has been playing in Japan for the past three seasons has nothing to do with him being a lousy baseball player.

The choice of Craig Wilson at first seems so clear now, it shouldn't even be in doubt. Hillenbrand is a bad choice in every possible way.

2006-12-01 07:24:02
7.   jonnystrongleg
6 All of the other candidates for 1B are lousy ballplayers too. It's the bottom of the barrell. Zuleta an upside (he's hit over a hundred homers in 3 years against sub-MLB comp) and a considerable risk. Some of the other guys have less risk and less upside. However they proceed, 1B is likely to be a problem cum the trading deadline.
2006-12-01 07:24:08
8.   C2Coke
5 Maybe Bernie thinks he can learn to play 1B during the offseason...I kid...I kid...
2006-12-01 07:25:45
9.   Fred Vincy
pistolpete's exactly right.

We need to avoid having obvious weaknesses that make us especially vulnerable to the Sox (e.g., no decent lefty in the bullpen), but building a team just to beat the Sox is a recipe for disaster....

2006-12-01 07:32:17
10.   jonnystrongleg
9 Cashman isn't going to get a guy to play 1B for over 100 games for the Yanks for a possible 15 AB's versus Matsuzaka. Even Zuleta's agent isn't dumb enough to think that.

His point is probably, "you guys think this guys sucks since he plays in Japan and don't take his 109 HR's in 3 yrs seriously. But he didn't just mash the crap here. He hit the best in the league, too."

2006-12-01 07:35:59
11.   C2Coke
10 Why was Zuleta in Japan in the first place?
2006-12-01 07:38:02
12.   jonnystrongleg
11 No idea. Probably got a better offer in terms of money and PT than he was getting in the states.
2006-12-01 07:41:36
13.   Shaun P
5 I don't believe it. The Yanks will go with a 13-man pitching staff first, and Craig Wilson will get 40 starts at catcher.

Honestly, is a team ultimately run by Sandy Alderson (with some help from Paul DePodesta) going to trade a 25-year-old pitcher for a 35-year-old OF, and put him in a park that suppresses offense? Oh, and the Padres will also pay Ramirez more in two years than Peavy is owed for the next four?

Meanwhile, the Padres have at least one, if not two holes in their rotation already and so they'll trade their ace, too?

Right.

2006-12-01 07:42:25
14.   tmcm650
Mike Plugh at Canyon of Heroes http://canyonofheroes.blogspot.com/ has an interesting examination of Zuleta and his historical numbers, and also includes a cautious (as opposed to rose-colored optimistic) projection of what he might do as a MLB 1B. Read the piece but the really short version is that a picture of Zuleta appears in the dictionary next to "consistent". His numbers from AA to AAA to Japan are ridiculously consistent, but Mike still tones them down in his MLB projections. Bottom line? Maybe Wilson is a more sensible choice based on his ability to play several positions, but it would also be prudent to keep Zuleta in the list of suspects being considered. He's done everything in his power to prove that he can rake, and if the Yanks are looking for someone to play 1B and provide above average offensive production, he deserves consideration.
2006-12-01 07:42:40
15.   Zack
5 The only way I could fathom the Padres trading Peavy is if that conspiracy theory we brought out after last season's Loretta trade really is true. You simply don't trade away 26 year old stud #1 proven dominant pitchers unless you are the Marlins. Period. That trade really makes no sense for the Pads, as their pitchign staff, despite what the article says, is their biggest problem right now. If they traded Peavy, they would be a mess. Add that to the fact that i don't think there is any way Manny would agree to play here in SD (big ball park etc, and I wouldbe very surprised if that trade happened.

And yeah, were that to happen, the Sox would be really really really really good for a long time pitching wise. Its pretty much the one outcome where I would hope Manny stays.

THe more I think about it, the more insane it seems to me, and the more I think its jsut pure Boston speculation and desire. Fans here would KILL the team. They are already despondant over their lack of offseason moves here (we are a fickle bunch) bu ttrading Peavy away wouldn't please them one bit...

2006-12-01 07:45:51
16.   Zavo
5 I'd be shocked if the Padres traded their 25 year old ace pitcher for Manny Ramirez. And sure, he has pitched in a pitchers park in a pitchers league, but Peavy is an actual ace and I would be quite upset if the Red Sox got him.

Word is Manny might not want to go to San Diego anyway because he wouldn't want to hit in that park.

I hope the Sox trade Manny, but I don't see it happening. He still has to approve the deal, wants his $20 million option picked up and supposedly there aren't many places he actually wants to play.

2006-12-01 07:46:17
17.   Zavo
15 Beat me to it
2006-12-01 07:46:31
18.   monkeypants
8 Bernie shoulda learned to play 1B by now anyway, and then he might have a little more utility. Maybe his last year against LHP was a fluke, but if not, he can still spank lefties. Now, it is true that he is about piss worthless in the OF. But if he had learned to play 1B, you could have a nice platoon player: RH batter/occasional DH/occasional 1B/desperation OF. Actually, the sorta player one might actually want to have at the end of the bench, right next to the pinch runner.

But sadly Bernie only just "learned" to "play" RF last year, and I don't see him tying the 1B mitt to the end of his arm this off season. More importantly, Torre can't be trusted around platoon players--especially if they are proven veterans. In any case, Bernie-the-backup-1B makes sense only with a deep bench (that is, a team without the increasingly common 12 man pitching staff).

I was really hoping Bernie could scratch out some career counting numbers without hurting his overall averages too much (namely 300 HR). Maybe he signs a Wade Boggs contract for some team that plays in a hitters park, or maybe he should just retire. But I just don't see a spot for him on the Yankees next year.

2006-12-01 07:52:40
19.   Zack
From the God-awful SD Union Tribune:
Ramirez, 34, could cost $78 million over the next four years if, to get his consent for a trade, he insists that $20 million options for 2009 and 2010 are picked up. As for the Padres players who are potential candidates in a trade, the club's No. 1 chip appears to be reliever Scott Linebrink. Pitcher Jake Peavy's name surfaced in a Padres-Red Sox trade report this past summer, after which Towers said he told Peavy that the pitcher will be in San Diego as long as Towers is the GM. Padres first baseman Adrian Gonzalez attracted trade overtures from the Red Sox when he was with the Rangers.

Speculation here seems to be fairly consistant that Peavy isn't even an option, but who knows...

2006-12-01 08:01:00
20.   mikeplugh
Hey. Thanks for the plug 14.

Zuleta may just be a great option. I'm still in favor if Wilson, but Zuleta's numbers in the minors are nutty. A, AA, AAA...

.290/.360/.550

Those numbers followed him to Japan, and he even produced them over 60 ABs for the Cubs. He had one bad stretch of about 130 ABs in his 2nd season with the Cubbies, and they banished him. It's not that Zuleta can't play in the States, it's that no one has even let him try despite consistently good numbers up the ladder. Doesn't Bill James say that minor league numbers are great predictors of future success?

I say talk to Zuleta's people. He made a million in Japan the last 2 seasons, but they wouldn't give him a raise or a multi-year because foreigners don't get that kind of deal for the most part here. He said, F-it, I'm going to try to go to the Majors. He can do it. The previous numbers show that it's in him....Japan and the US.

Remember Cecil Fielder? He was in the same situation. The Jays wouldn't play him so he went East and mashed. When he came back he got a fair shot and produced. His numbers other than homers, and RBIs aren't monsterous, but they were enough to throw up a regular .850-.900 OPS, which Zuleta may also be able to do on the cheap.

2006-12-01 08:17:14
21.   Jim Dean
15 19 Thanks. I haven't seen Peavy much, but given his numbers, I'm not all that convinced that he'd thrive in the AL East, a la Beckett. Still, it would seem to be very silly to trade him.

I learned my lesson last year about being scared of the Sux and their moves and watched as the same anxiety gripped others with the Belli trade. Just goes to show - Lord Epstein has no clothes. I'd be more surprised by them winning the division next year than Epstein getting fired after they fail to make the playoffs again.

BTW: Paps got hurt last year when he threw 68 IP. And I was wrong (forgot to add) - he threw 129 in 2004 ans 148 in 2005. Still, he's going to have to increase that 2005 total by more than 40% if he's going to pitch into September. As Verducci's last article shows, and Cliff has steadily reminded us of Wang, that's not likely to be a good recipe.

As far as I'm concerned, Boston is a third place team until they prove otherwise. Trading away a HOF hitter for Nancy Drew doesn't invoke fear in my heart. Nor signing Julio Lugo. Nor a Japanese maybe. They have at least ten games to make up. And none of those things gets them there. And they still need a closer - good luck finding someone with the arm and head to handle Boston. One blown save and the whole town blows.

2006-12-01 08:20:07
22.   Bama Yankee
20 Mike, any word on Zuleta's defense at first?
2006-12-01 08:36:04
23.   rbj
Bernie, we love ya and you've had a great career. It's time to focus on playing Carnegie Hall and we'll fit you for a plaque in Monument Park.
2006-12-01 08:41:23
24.   wsporter
20 Mike, the notion at some point was that the NPL maintained a breaking ball dominant pitching style. Guys that went over who couldn't make it in the bigs here, because of the breaking ball, could potentially learn to hit it there based on a steady diet of seeing it. They then could come back to the US and make it in the bigs with at least a passable ability to hit the breaking ball, at least on a zone basis. Do you have a feel if that is (or was) the case and of what you know of Zuleta, could that be the case with him as well?

Keep that Canyon going, its great stuff.

2006-12-01 08:43:23
25.   Rich Mahogany
I'm impressed with the Zuleta research. That's some insightful analysis.

I just don't see the downside to Wilson though. We could likely get him cheap, and his pre-Yankees track record is decent (better than Hillenbrand's, anyway).

Hell, if we sign Wilson and he keeps playing like he did in 2006, even Phillips or Giambi would be preferable at first compared to what else is left.

Speaking of Giambi, is his defense really so bad that he cannot be used at first anymore? I assume yes, because I never see this floated as an option. But even if his defense is below average, any runs he costs the team may be outweighed by his dramatically improved offense when he plays first.

2006-12-01 08:54:44
26.   monkeypants
25 The bigger fear with Giambi at first is that he is a walking...er, standing injury waiting to happen.
2006-12-01 09:02:39
27.   Bama Yankee
While looking for some info on Zuleta's defense (looks like he played a lot of DH in Japan) I came across this interesting article about:

http://www.japanball.com/news.phtml?id=6361

No word on whether Satoru Kanemura was overheard asking "Who is Julio Zuleta?"

2006-12-01 09:17:09
28.   Jim Dean
Heyman has a new piece up at SI:

http://tinyurl.com/yy5g7q

It's all speculation on his part but some interesting stuff. As we've said here, the one team we prob don't want the Sux dealing Manny is the Dodgers. They have enough in their system to give them a few arms.

Piazza looks like he's going to the A's. Says Zito will get $100mil and DM will cost the Sux $26mil for each of four years ($51.11 + $54).

2006-12-01 09:20:52
29.   Jim Dean
Since they will come so cheap, and they're doesn't seem to be many other teams looking for RH 1B, could the Yanks sign Wilson AND Zuleta and let them compete with Phillips in the Spring?
2006-12-01 09:28:48
30.   David
Based purely on statistics, Hillenbrand would be the best 1B option, but who knows how to factor in his attitude problem?

I wonder whether the Yanks will trade for a first-baseman at some point. There are so many great-hitting first-basemen out there. Why should the Yanks be content with a Zuleta, Wilson, or Phillips?

2006-12-01 09:35:13
31.   standuptriple
30 I think as long as Shea doesn't plan on adopting any more children he should be ok, right? That being said, I'd rather have Wilson, Phillips and a flyer on Zuleta than him.
2006-12-01 09:39:19
32.   BklynBmr
Holy sh*t on a shingle! Anyone catch this on 'Pride of the Yankees':

-----

The Red Sox will hold out trying to lowball Dice-K [Matsuzaka]. And when I say hold out, I mean to the point where it becomes it was obvious just a blocking manuever to keep him from the Yankees. He wants $15Mx3Y, sox are offering 8Mperx4Y, "oceans apart". I've been told that if the Sox knew the Mets had the second highest bid ($38M), higher than the Yankees ($32M), they never would have bid $51.11 to win him. That comes from a very good source. Moreover, what I heard from the same source who is close to negotiations that what will happen is that Selig, Boras, and Seibu have a deal in place, where Boras pays Seibu $25 mil (1/2 the Red Sox bid) and he owns the rights to Matsuzaka, and puts him on the market BY X-MAS for the highest bidder, and Selig has signed off on it...

http://www.nj.com/weblogs/yankees/

----

Yeah, "trusted and informed sources" — whatever, this is either the result of a very creative imagination or buinsess as usual for the Eviler Empire. I'm not completely sure which. Yeeesh!

2006-12-01 09:45:22
33.   Jim Dean
32 Very interesting. Boras certainly has enough cash to do it. But I don't understand how he'd recoup his investment. Would DM be an indentured servant? Aren't there laws against that??

Seriously though, why would Seibu accept that when they know the Mets bid $38 million and the Yankees boid $30?

2006-12-01 09:46:31
34.   standuptriple
I love it when Selig makes rules up as he goes along. I'd love to see Boras with nothing to show for D-Mat, but I highly doubt he'll care because Zito is gonna get paid. How poetic would it be if all the top FA SP are gone and D-Mat doesn't sign? You think there would be some whining in the NE corner?
2006-12-01 10:03:08
35.   monkeypants
30 David, based on what statistics? Everything I've looked at suggests that Wilson is clearly superior the suyperior option to Hillenbrand.
2006-12-01 10:17:46
36.   David
35 monkeypants, you are correct.
2006-12-01 10:30:51
37.   Bama Yankee
35 Hillenbrand clearly leads Wilson in the "Altercations With Manager" Category (AWM). The good news is that his AWM puts him into Reggie Jackson and Rob Dibble territory.

Maybe the Yankees should sign Hillenbrand and Zuleta (and Karim Garcia for that matter). If they don't make the Yankees out of Spring Training, Cashman could just work out a deal with Vince McMahon. Zuleta's ability to "rain punches down while other players try to restrain him" 27 could be an asset in the WWE.

2006-12-01 10:47:49
38.   ric
I heard the latest D-Mat murmurs as 6/$72 mil...
2006-12-01 10:57:08
39.   RIYank
32 None of that sounds implausible to me except the "Selig has signed off" part. Why would he? Does he love Boras? Why would he deliberately make himself look like a schmuck?

34 Boras is going to do fine no matter what the outcome. He'll represent Matsuzaka next year if nothing happens this year, right? And the salary will be higher so Boras will make more money. And his rep will be even better, 'tougher'.

38 Offered, or asked?

2006-12-01 11:03:51
40.   ric
sorry.. asked

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2006/11/30/sox_nixon_in_07/

2006-12-01 11:09:15
41.   RIYank
Okay, that makes sense 42. I don't believe Theo will pay that much. He wants 6 years but at $8 million per.

The rest of that article is interesting -- arbitration for Nixon??? So, between Drew and Nixon you probably get 162 games, and you only end up paying them together about $16 million, and you use two roster spots. That seems reasonable. Not.
But are they planning to sign-and-trade? What the market for an overpaid Nixon?

2006-12-01 11:15:06
42.   vockins
32 "had the Red Sox known that the Mets had placed the largest bid (roughly $38M), and had already beaten out the Yankees for negotiation rights, they would have never bid the $51,111,111 posting fee."

I'm not sure why this guy is framing this like it's mind blowing insider information.

(Not BklynBmr, the guy in BklynBmr's quote)

2006-12-01 11:27:54
43.   Knuckles
Sheehan at BP is talking about how the Reds can't get full value for Adam Dunn, and may still be wanting to trade him. Could he be a viable 1B alternative? The guy is not a great LF, and is only 26 years old. How about putting together some kind of package for him, and make him the primary 1B for a few years? He's a tick better than Giambi RATE-wise, in limited 1B time, leading me to think he could get better. His 2008 option for $13M is eliminated if he's traded, opening up a window where the Yanks could sign him maybe thru his early 30's.
2006-12-01 11:29:35
44.   Bizast1
http://japanesebaseball.com/players/player.jsp?PlayerID=1642

Here's Zuleta stats in Japan. The Homeruns numbers in japan doesn't translate here in the Us. So, I think his homeruns will be cut in half and He will hits between 10-15 homerun.

Zuleta's a unrestricted free agent and has good numbers against Matsuzaka. He will be cheap and cost less than Signing Hillenbrand. The Yankees would not forfeit and lose any draft picks by signing him. I'm hoping the Yankees would sign him to minor league deal and give it try.

Andy's Phillips proves last year He's not everday player but bench guy. I agree with you, Phillips is much better fielder but He's can't hit for average and strikeouts a ton.
I think Zuleta's much better patient hitter than Hillenbrand. He won't chased pitches out of strikezone

2006-12-01 11:30:23
45.   Bizast1
Speculative, But, Could It Be True?, ...we'll see

http://www.nj.com/weblogs/yankees/

Thursday, November 30, 2006

The Matsu-saga continues
Very interesting e-mail from a rather informed and reasonable source came in:

Okay guys, here's what I've heard through the grapevine on this...The Red Sox will hold out trying to lowball Dice-K [Matsuzaka]. And when I say hold out, I mean to the point where it becomes it was obvious just a blocking manuever to keep him from the Yankees. He wants $15Mx3Y, sox are offering 8Mperx4Y, "oceans apart". I've been told that if the Sox knew the Mets had the second highest bid ($38M), higher than the Yankees ($32M), they never would have bid $51.11 to win him. That comes from a very good source. Moreover, what I heard from the same source who is close to negotiations that what will happen is that Selig, Boras, and Seibu have a deal in place, where Boras pays Seibu $25 mil (1/2 the Red Sox bid) and he owns the rights to Matsuzaka, and puts him on the market BY X-MAS for the highest bidder, and Selig has signed off on it...

So, take that for what it's worth. Probably some truth to it, and probably some game-of-telephone style exaggerations. If Matsuzaka goes on the market, though, expect the Yanks to be huge players. But man, what an intriguing, juicy story. MLB.com's Fred Claire says the competition for the far east market is just adding a new element to the Yankee-Sox rivalry.

2006-12-01 11:39:06
46.   Jim Dean
44 45 I'm guilty of it too - but please read the other comments before posting. You may save yourself some time.
2006-12-01 11:41:02
47.   Chyll Will
33 "Boras certainly has enough cash to do it. But I don't understand how he'd recoup his investment. Would DM be an indentured servant? Aren't there laws against that??"

I'm glad you asked. Richard Sandomir at NY Times broke it down about the origin of the posting system, which was supposed to avoid that very type of situation.

http://tinyurl.com/y2acs3

Ironically, it was MLB that inspired the posting system, no doubt in reaction to Yankees' "ingenuity" (money + will x Steinbrenner = No Comp!), but as usual teams and agents both decided to tuck-and-roll. I wondered aloud yesterday why the Yankees didn't do things this way all along, now I know why.

2006-12-01 11:45:55
48.   Jim Dean
43 I like it but I'm afraid it's too much any way you cut it, especially since we can't be clear whether he'd be okay full-time at 1B and what he's going to cost in mmoney and prospects.

I wonder if Cash is sticking with the temporary Phillips, Zuleta, and Wilson options because one of the Duncans (more Eric) or Sardinha (if moved his lack of power would fit better at 1B) could be ready later in the year or in 2008.

2006-12-01 11:51:05
49.   Chyll Will
What would we make of Matsuzaka if he were suddenly available on the open market? On top of that, why would the Ded Sox deliberately blow their brains out in front of the world just to slow down the Yankees from acquiring him? Did they honestly think they would save-a-buck-or-two when you're dealing with Boras?
2006-12-01 11:51:46
50.   Jim Dean
47 Thanks - that's a decent read.

I hope all this money being tossed around will have the Yanks set up an Eastern Academy to recruit Asian high school players and sign them as free agents. Unless there's some sort of draft that prevents it?

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-12-01 11:55:15
51.   Jim Dean
49 And what I love about Boras is he'll use the Zito deal to drive up the price on DM and vice-versa. Further, he'll use the price of the bid against the Sux as a sign that they think he's a number one. Who care's if it's all circular logic - the man knows his job.

Now if that report is true, and the Yanks are bidding after X-mas - ugh.

2006-12-01 12:04:27
52.   tommyl
50 Hmmm..now that's an interesting idea. There are certainly analogs of this in the soccer world. For example, Barcelona snapped up Leo Messi from Argentina when he was 14 or so and sent him and his family to "study" at their academy. It avoided him most likely first signing with an Argentinian team and then Barca having to pay to have him transferred.

I still don't understand why the bidding process is closed for posting. Couldn't Seibu make more money (and the competition for rights be fairer) if they could just directly negotiate with teams for the signing rights. As someone pointed out awhile ago, this is what happens in soccer. Teams A and B negotiate with C for the rights to a player, and then the winning team has to negotiate a contract with said player. Seems more win/win to me.

2006-12-01 12:04:34
53.   Chyll Will
50 Someone here told me that Japanese traditionally prefer to compete in front of their countrymen before going abroad, though some like Mac Suzuki have signed directly with a club without playing in Japan. They idea I guess is that setting up an academy there would be ideologically difficult based on traditional values and needs.

Not to say they shouldn't, and not to say there's anything wrong with wanting to compete in your home (hello Tom Glavine).

It would also be tricky, I imagine, setting one up in, say, South Korea or Taiwan, given from what I understand are the mandatory military obligations. You're not competing with just other clubs, you're also competing directly with other governments, which certainly would not be happy having their own "talent pool" drained in such a manner. I might be wrong there and feel free to correct me, but the operative word would be: "complicated."

2006-12-01 12:12:18
54.   Chyll Will
52 Don't forget in the soccer system, a player still under contract also gets a percentage of that fee from the team that's buying his rights. That's a nice hunk of change when you're talking about millions. My guess is that with agents involved, teams would not want to pay commission twice for baseball players, as opposed to a sport that has much more contact.
2006-12-01 12:13:05
55.   tommyl
54 Isn't that percentage on a contract by contract basis though?
2006-12-01 12:19:01
56.   Chyll Will
51 How many teams would you expect to bid in that market? I think:

Toronto
Baltimore
Cincinnati (maybe)
Chicago Cubs (more than Cincy, but maybe)
both LA teams
both NY teams

With Tampa Bay as a dark horse, only because pairing him with Kasmir would give them instant credibility as a contender.

2006-12-01 12:21:51
57.   Chyll Will
55 The article implied it was per sale. If your rights are sold twice or three times during the life of thge current contract, the player gets a percentage each time.
2006-12-01 12:39:11
58.   standuptriple
43 I can't believe the Reds are claiming they can't get "full value" for Dunn. He's a monster and yeah, he K's a bunch, but he's still pretty young and (according to Hardball $) there's a $13mil option for '08 making him a 2 yr $23.5mil guy. Not a bad deal if you ask me. I've had a great conversation with a Giants fan about them needing Dunn (before Howard came into the picture) because the alure of that park is putting the ball in the bay. Dunn is one of the few who could do that religiously. /tangent
2006-12-01 12:42:05
59.   ric
even if the sox were just blocking, why would the lions agree to the terms in that ridiculous rumor when the next highest bid is $13 mil over Boras alleged buy out?!?!
2006-12-01 12:47:20
60.   YankeE4Life
Hey Guys, I'm new to the Banter so don't be too hard, but what about

Scott Procter
Kei Igawa
Humberto Sanchez
Melky Cabrera

for Dontrelle?

Setting Up a 2008 Rotation of

Dontrelle Willis
Chin-Ming Wang
Mike Mussina
Philip Hughes
and that other guy that's always hurt/ Ian Kennedy, prospect,etc.......

2006-12-01 12:51:52
61.   Chyll Will
59 Hell, the Lions don't lose anything either way. If they take whatever money is there, it's still a lot more than they had before. And if Matsuzaka comes back, then they have him for another year and repost him. They can keep doing that until his contract runs out, thereby they get the best years of him and his value is moot after that.

Boras is as much the X Factor as we expect him to be. If there's nothing to it, expect Boras to blow the rumor right out the water quick, because he won't give up any kind of leverage whatsoever. Let's watch...

2006-12-01 12:54:31
62.   Knuckles
60 Good idea, in theory- the exchange of talent makes some sense, but here's my knocks:
-Melky is young and cheap, a very good 4th OF for this team as currently constructed.
-Proctor, assuming Torre didn't burn him out last year, is a go-to guy. (If he is burned out, then by all means, trade him while you can)
-You don't pay $26M to negotiate with a guy, then trade him. And Florida wouldn't even want to pay him whatever his contract winds up being.
-I'm not convinced Dontrelle will hold up long-term. He looks like one of those guys that pitches well in spite of himself, and I have a bad feeling the wheels will come off at some point. And I hope it's not the season after the Yanks ink him to a longterm deal.
2006-12-01 12:54:51
63.   Bama Yankee
60 Welcome YankeE4Life. That seems like a lot to give up for D-Train. I would offer Melky, Sanchez and a prospect.
2006-12-01 12:59:40
64.   Chyll Will
60 Welcome aboard, mate. You probably know the rules now. Nothing below the belt >;)

No, I would not do it. Kei is an unknown factor for one. Proctor is a valuable cog in the bullpen, which has been the Achilles Heel for the Yanks lately. Melky is the best defensive replacement on the Yanks, but his CF is still open for question, for a team like Florida. Hughes is still at least a half-season away. The only reason Florida would make a deal with the Yanks is for Sanchez and Hughes + cash, in my opinion. Not a safe bet either way.

2006-12-01 13:06:19
65.   Chyll Will
Yeah, what Knuckles said. (man, I was calling on you some time ago...)
2006-12-01 13:10:09
66.   Knuckles
65 meaning...?
2006-12-01 13:18:06
67.   Chyll Will
66 I forgot now... I was saying that we needed you to put some heads to bed, but I can't find the post now and wsporter didn't think it was necessary anyway. Maybe next time.
2006-12-01 13:23:47
68.   Shaun P
43 58 I'm not surprised the Reds are placing too much emphasis on Dunn's Ks (and his defensive miscues in LF) vs the power and patience he has in spades. The Twins always hated big K guys - remember what they told Ortiz? - and Krivsky is the former Twins AGM.

Dunn's talent are more than enough to overcome his shortcomings (Ks, another lefty, blah with the glove in LF) and if the Yanks can get him for a reasonable price - say one of the power relievers gotten from the Tigers and Ian Kennedy - I say do it.

2006-12-01 13:32:00
69.   Zack
I don't think there is any truth to that "good source" thing. There is no way the Sox would pull something like that so blatantly. The point of their lowballing DM/Boras is to play the leverage game and count on the fact that they will meet in the middle, which would still probably be a baragin to them. The Sox know they NEED DM for their rotation and that without him, they are really dead in the water. Add to all that the fact that such an obvious stunt would get them in lots of pr trouble and the Selig thing making no sense, and don't hold your breath. DM will sign with the Sox for around 12/...
2006-12-01 13:46:32
70.   wsporter
67 I was just checking in to see what was going on and I saw my name mentioned. What the heck have I done now Chyll? What didn't I think was necessary?
2006-12-01 13:49:20
71.   Jim Dean
70 It was the oyster sauce.
2006-12-01 14:01:35
72.   Bama Yankee
70 The other day (after Jeter didn't get the MVP) Chyll wanted Knuckles to whack some sportswriters, but apparently you called off the hit.

All this reminds me of a famous Bear Bryant quote. Someone asked the Bear for ten bucks to help cover the cost of a sportswriter's funeral. His response: "Here's a twenty, bury two."

2006-12-01 14:04:58
73.   Chyll Will
70 No, nothing serious. Do you remember what post we were raging on when I when I grumbled "Where's Knuckles when we need him?" and you said, "The hell with that, " yadda-yadda-yadda and bringing rationality back to the fold?

No, I don't either. But you were being rational and I was calling for blood, but I don't remember what it was about. Probably over Boston and DM. At any rate, it was all about nothing; a joke that missed it's mark and flew to oblivion, where I sometimes freelance.

2006-12-01 14:07:00
74.   Chyll Will
72 Ahhh-yes. Thanks for packing my brains for me, Bama. Bear Bryant, it figures. I'm going home now, I'll be back in a few to take my lumps. See, I told you it wasn't serious.
2006-12-01 16:49:23
75.   Chyll Will
(2-1/2 hours later) Wowzers. I hope no one was waiting all this time for me to come back. Kinda functionless in here...

Well, in case anyone's lurking about, Showalter's signed on as a special advisor to the Indians (good luck with that, both of ya) and Tom Glavine has reportedly resigned with the Mets. Good for youse. I'm biding my time to see when the Ded Sox drop the ball on Matsuzaka before I say anything else, if there's any truth to the previous proceedings.

Okay, I'll check back in a little while.

2006-12-03 19:18:48
76.   Schteeve
30 By WHAT numbers? Batting Average?

32Whoever wrote that is probably at the head of their creative writing class.

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