the following is from a ny post srticle this morning:

"Several Yankees have begun sporting mustaches as a sign of unity akin to playoff beards in the NHL. Jason Giambi was the ringleader - which seems the proper term since this is part of a spirited attempt to win a ring - and teammates such as Johnny Damon, Ron Villone and Jaret Wright all were mysteriously beginning to look like 1970s porn actors, as well.

But it appears as though this hair club for men is much like Fight Club. So the first rule of growing a mustache for the Yankees is, you do not talk about growing a mustache for the Yankees. Answers about how Burt Reynolds suddenly became the patron saint of the clubhouse were evasive and short."

No harm, no foul is right. Proctor, Farnswacker, and Rivera got another night off, which will hopefully yield dividends in October.

I wonder if Joe's backfired bullpen maneuver will go on his ledger as a "Torre Loss" over at NoMaas.org. They credit him with 3 losses this season.

Tough one for Villone, but I remember watching Beltre on the Dodgers when I lived in L.A. He's got pop. "Bat In The Beltre" was the headline I often conjured. Solid player.

Re: the "alarming fly ball tendencey exhibited by Karstens" (nice line, Cliff): were they wacking him to the track? mostly harmless lazy pop ups?

Perhaps the worst thing about this loss is that the audacious Mariner's fan who accosted our fellow Banterer, Murph during his visit to Seattle last week was right that his M's would give the Yanks a hard time. Pfft.

Farnsworth closed the day before, Proctor went six innings in the Sox series, and Dotel has apparently not earned Joe's trust yet. Last night would have been a nice spot for Dotel to start earning Torre's trust, especially, as you point out, that Villone was facing a right handed power hitter.
If Beltre had taken Dotel deep the loss would have been easier to stomach because the Yanks would have been going with power against power.
Oh well, big picture "no harm, no foul."
We'll get 'em tonight/tomorrow morning EST.

http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-ont4.htm

Given what transpired over the weekend and the state the pen was in I think Mr. Torre has to be given a pass on last night. If he won with what he budgeted in terms of manpower great. If not, I don't think he was prepared to open a vein over it; nor should we be.

I got in late and didn't really get a good look at Karstens on the Seattle MLB broadcast (if you want to call it a MLB broadcast). I gather from Cliff's comments and the fly ball tendency that he was pitching a little up in the zone. Very bad for a ground ball pitcher. How was his velocity? Did he throw his split? Was he sitting at the advertised 88 – 92 range on his 4 seam? Did he have a change? Are there any reactions or impressions worth noting from anyone who didn't have to sit through that unwatchable Seattle feed?

I had the Seattle broadcast on XM, switched over to the Angels broadcast in between pitches. Another IBB for Ortiz in the 9th - I love it.

As for last night, Joe knows the state of his players better than us, no? He doesn't hesitate to overuse relievers and turn to his go-to guys, so I imagine he utilized sound judgement in not using Proctor, Farns, and Mo in the 9th last night. That he didn't go to Dotel is the bummer for me, but Octavio hasn't earned his trust yet.

I imagine if Dotel had blown the game, Joe would have been blamed for that too.

As for the non-idiotic thing, I meant exactly that, he didn't make himself look like an idiot. It was a good series other than when he put Bernie in the OF, I agree. But I just wish he didn't try and make sure we snapped Seattle's streak.

And why do WE have to snap Seattle's and Kansas City's streaks? Why couldn't some other teams have done that? And one more thing, why do Richie Sexson and Adrian Beltre, two of the biggest busts in Free Agent history, completely and unjustly own the Yankees? It makes no sense, one is hitting .230 and the other .260, and yet, they combine to murder us. Things like this annoy me to no end.

2) Yes, Torre made a mistake that cost us one Loggy matchup. But with Melky and Cano making bad blunders, ARod and Jorge failing with the sacs loaded, Melky being picked off, and others poor judgement plays, I don't know how this is a Torre loss. His 'negative' impact was far lesser then the players failures. Myers and Wright were housemoney attempts to save the PB. Yes, Torre made a mistake, but the team lost the game, not Torre's one bad move.

Torre is often not cited for being an excellent manager by the media, as we all know how easy it is to mange and win with a 200 mil ballclub. Yet this year, almost every series has had a announcer compliment Torre, call it his best year, or put him in for manager of the year.

Where is the love for Torre?

Torre works for George under the assumption that he will go to the PS and win the WS, with every move magnified by the NY media. You want this job?

Great ballplayers fail 70% of the time. Can a great manager 'make an error' without name calling and having a team loss pinned on him?

We all know Torre makes mistakes and is weak in PB management. But NOBODY could have done what he had done over the last 10 years. Last year and this year could have been crash-and-burn. Torre is the glue that holds this team together.

As far as I am concerned, this years Yankee's MVP is co-shared by Torre and Cashman.

re: Villone, my guess is Joe was going with one of his hunches that Villone could grind it out, and get the job done in Seattle, where he has played before.

"On the fritz is rather mysterious in origin, being first used in 1902. It gained impetus during WWI when it was used to refer to anything German or that didn't work right. But the wartime derogatory reference is obviously not the origin, given the date of first use."

But I have a problem with a language expert who says "impetus" to mean "momentum." That's something John Sterling would say.

Seriously, I love Torre, and wouldn't want another manager.

New York did get some good injury news: Doctors cleared left fielder Hideki Matsui to hit off a tee for the first time since he broke his left wrist on May 11.

Torre said Matsui probably will be able to hit soft-tossed pitches into a screen "in a few days." Torre said "it's possible" Matsui could go on a rehabilitation assignment during the final week of the minor league regular season.

Triple-A Columbus' regular season ends Sept. 4. Class-A Tampa, often a favored rehabilitation place for the Yankees, end its season Sept. 3.

That's a kind of failure I'm willing to accept. If the Yanks fail to win their sixth straight eight more times this year, I'm totally cool with that.

I've said this before, I'll say it again. I've criticized Torre plenty over the years, and god kows he makes it easy enough to do. But the daily criticism of his in-game tactics - not so much here but at other sites - is often correct but misguided. It focuses on his small mistakes while completely obscuring his tremendous strengths.

This year, I think his strengths have made all the difference. Without Joe Torre, I don't think this team would be in first place. His most important contribution was that he never panicked. He lost two outfielders, he had no fifth starter, Johnson was looking bad, Mo and EDSP looked like his only reliable relievers, and then he lost his second baseman as well. Fans and media were starting to get a little overheated.

So what did Joe do? He made a plan and he stuck to it. He put together the best players he could scrounge up, sent them out and let them play. If something wasn't working, he gave it a few more chances; no one had to worry that he'd be benched for an oh-fer or two. And then if it still didn't work, he tweaked his plan, and then stuck to that.

And that's what Joe has been doing for 11 seasons, and that's why he's lasted.

When it came to in-game tactics, Billy Martin was a frickin' genius (and he'd be sure to let you know it). But can you imagine him managing this team? By mid-June he would have been twitching and snarling; then he'd start bad-mouthing his players, who would also be bad-mouthing him. He'd crack, and so would the team.

Joe can be incredibly frustrating, but I think he's also irreplaceable. Sure, he's had players to work with; Martin, Lemon, Martin, Howser, Michael, Lemon, Michael, King, Martin, Berra, Martin and Piniella. None of them was able to do what Joe has.

Dotel's is just back from a long TJ rehab. How was he feeling last night, did anyone here ask him? How did his stuff look yesterday? Anyone here bother to get out to the bull pen and look? Based on anyone here's conversation with Villone yesterday was he feeling stronger than the other guys?

This day in day out micro-critiquing of Mr. Torre's decisions gets tiresome very fast on this level.

If Billy Martin was managing the '06 Yanks he would have charged the field at least twice this season to tackle A-Rod following an error. Seriously. He would have made ESPN's treatment of Rodriguez look like "Yankeeography."

However, Sheffield (whom I know you are not fond of) probably would have killed Martin by May 1st.

http://www.deadspin.com/sports/baseball/hacking-bernie-196056.php

"I think it was Alex Belth, protesting the fact that Torre for some crazy reason, continues to run Bernie out in the late innings as a defensive replacement."

Wouldn't it be great to see the Yanks go 162 - 0 in the regular season, 11 - 0 in the playoffs and us have nothing to ever complain about?

If I ruled the world......none of my teams would ever lose either.

You know who I blame this loss on? I blame it on the mother f'er who didn't make us perfect.

Soriano got pulled after the Melky bunt and a lefty, Sherrill, came in to face Cano (it was Sherrill who picked off Melky while Damon was batting).

I guess I just don't get how people can question Joe on anything for last night. They just played 5 grueling games.

**they don't really exist, do they?