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2006-07-23 05:45
by Alex Belth
Note: The Bronx Banter blog has moved to bronxbanterblog.com.

Three game losing streak? Hold a pre-game team meeting. While Alex Rodriguez's slump continues, the Yankees scrapped and rallied to defeat the Blue Jays 5-4 on Saturday evening in front of more than 50,000 at the Rogers Centre, gaining a game back on the Red Sox who lost earlier in the day (the Yanks trail by two-and-a-half). Jorge Posada, the Bronx version of "Captain Red Ass," tripled (?!?) after objecting to a high offering by Ted Lilly which came close to his noggin, Bernie Williams hit a two-run homer, Jason Giambi had a clutch pinch-hit (he walked in his second at bat and was pinch run for by Jaret Wright!), and Derek Jeter drew a walk with the bases loaded, scoring what would be the game-winning run. For the second straight start Chien-Ming Wang was far from electric, but he was good enough while the Yankee bullpen was dynamite: Scott Proctor struck out the side in the seventh, ditto for Kyle Farnsworth in the eighth, and Mariano Rivera--who is way too cool for strikeouts by now--sent the Jays down, 1-2-3 in the ninth on two ground balls to Jeter and a pop fly to Rodriguez at third.

Rodriguez, who was taking ground balls five hours before the game began with coaches Larry Bowa and Don Mattingly, was the DH and only played the field in the ninth inning. Rodriguez struck out four times for the first time since 1995. Even more troubling was that Rodriguez swung through or fouled off at least four fat pitches in his last two at bats. It wasn't so much a case of the pitcher beating him as it was him beating himself. Rodriguez's troubles have gotten worse over the past week. What I find fascinating is that the cause of his fielding woes is his arm--something that has long been his strength defensively. I mean, his arm is that last thing I've ever worried about. (Perhaps the Yankees' next stop--in Texas to play the Rangers--will bring some comfort to Rodriguez.)

It's painful for everyone involved--from the fans to Rodriguez himself of course--watching the Yankees' superduper star struggle so mightly. The situation is intensified by the fact that the Yankee offense desperately needs his power. My girlfriend never cared much for Rodriguez until he became the target of the fans' ire. This morning, she released the following statement:

"There's no question that he will rebound from this slump. I'm patient until he does. And I wish everyone would just shut-up and leave him alone and give him the room to breath and continuing helping the Yankees win as he always has. Which is what the fans want...right?!"

For what it is worth, I have every bit of confidence that Rodriguez will be just fine. According to Tyler Kepner in The New York Times:

In the clubhouse Saturday, after cuddling with his 20-month-old daughter, Natasha, Rodriguez was asked if he felt pressure mounting on the field. Appearances aside, he insisted he did not.

"Not at all," Rodriguez said. "You wish you could be hitting .340 with 35 home runs — and Big Papi has, what, 95 R.B.I.?," he added, referring to Ortiz, who leads the majors with 92. "But, guys, this is a human being. You guys screw up sometimes. I'm sure sometimes when you guys write, you misspell a word. That's life, we're human beings.

"I wish we were perfect. But I feel very comfortable and very confident."

And Reggie Jackson tells Mike Lupica:

"I hear people say (A-Rod) might not be tough enough for this," Jackson said. "He's more than tough enough. You don't do what he's done in this game without being tough enough. I see it on his face every night. I see that he knows what every player knows, whether they're as great as he is or not: What a hard, humbling game this really is. You know why he'll play through this? Because he has to. He'll do what he's always done, and show up every day and go to work with a toolbox that has more in it than anybody else playing. More than (Albert) Pujols, more than anybody else you want to talk about.

"I signed the biggest contract once, and I knew when I did what I was taking on. And you better believe I knew that it was one more thing that I was going to have to carry up the hill with me. Alex is going up that same hill now. And it's like I just said: He'll make it because he has to, because we've got more than 60 home runs and 200 RBI on the bench (Matsui, Sheffield) and because he's as great as he is and because he just has to.

"It's like I told Jeter that time when he was 0-for-32: Figure it out because you ain't going anywhere. There ain't no place to hide. You never get hurt. You're not sitting down. You're gonna be there every day and you're Derek Jeter. Same way with Alex. He's Alex Rodriguez.

..."I wish they didn't boo him," he said. "I wish they didn't boo me. But I always respect the fans and love them and in the end, they aren't really a part of this, even if you know they want to love him. This isn't about whether you think the boos are justified or unjustified. It isn't about the media. This is about him. The guy has all that talent.

"You take on a lot of things when you take the money and come here and tough times are part of it. He'll get through this and he'll be better for it."

The Yanks will need Rodriguez's pop today, what with Bonzone on the hill for the Yanks. Here's hoping the Yanks can out-pound the Jays and come away with a split.

Comments (315)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-07-23 06:42:45
1.   randym77
At least they're still having fun. Jaret Wright, pinch-runner, was the source of much mirth in the clubhouse. They're calling him "Wheels" now. And they ragged on him unmercifully for not coming through with a steal or a takeout slide. Giambi sounded like he wanted to challenge Wright to a race, to see who's really faster!

Torre said he's thinking of DHing Damon today, to spare his foot from the hard turf. Which means Giambi at 1B and Andy on the bench.

2006-07-23 07:09:41
2.   Alex Belth
That was hilarious about Wright. Funny how much laughter can be found when the team wins.
2006-07-23 07:57:23
3.   randym77
Another funny bit: Posada talking about his triple, and saying he needs a cab to get to third base. :-D

I loved that double steal, too. Even if the balk hadn't been called, it would have worked.

2006-07-23 08:04:16
4.   singledd
With apologies to Cliff...
While I do enjoy watching Andy play, the truth is his numbers say he has the lowest OPS of any qualified 1B-man in MLB. Not average, but the worst.

And while his D helps a lot, Giambi, while he is still producing HRs, his BA has nosedived since DHing on a regular basis.
We are getting close to NO power from 3 traditional power spots: LF; RF and 1B.
We are 7th of 14 in HRs.

Andy needs to sit. If we can't get an OF'er, lets at least get a one-dimensional BAT to DH, with giambi at first.

We have lost NINE games where the opponent scored 4 runs or less.
We have lost SEVEN games where the opponent scored 5 runs.

This is why we need a BAT. Not because we have some bad pitching days when we give up a ton of runs, or the BP blows a lead, but because of the MANY well to decent pitched games we have had, our weak offense has let many of them get away.

How many of those 16 games above should we have won? With Shefsui, I'll bet half.
16 games for the taking, that we lost.

Look at the bottom 4 of our lineup.
What if we lose Damon, ARod, Jetes, Posada of Giambi for a few weeks? Damon and Posada both need more days off.

We have better pitching Stats then both the Red and White Sox.
We have a worst team BA, HRs and OPS then
both the Red and White Sox.

If you don't believe your eyes, then check out the numbers above.

We need a BAT.
If ARod goes on a rampage, that will help.
Singlehandedly, he can turn around a number of games. Conversely, if Giambi slumps (like in the last 3 games we just lost), we are cooked.

It's a tough market.
But I have faith in Cashman.
There must be AT LEAST an impact DH we can buy.

2006-07-23 08:31:29
5.   randym77
I don't think Giambi's BA is down because he's DHing. In any case, at his age, he better learn to DH. He's a hazard, not least to himself.

I think there are two causes for Jason's low BA average right now. One is the reason he himself gives: he's trying to take some of the pressure off A-Rod. He's swinging at pitches he would usually let go by, because he wants to drive in runs so A-Rod won't have to.

The other is the "Ortiz shift." It can't take away homeruns, but it does take away other hits. So his BA is lower, while his homeruns are still up there. It's the same for Big Papi this year.

2006-07-23 08:40:13
6.   Rich
Props to your g/f, Alex.

On another note, I think the Yankees should call up Carlos Pena (I know he hasn't been great, but the Yankees are struggling offensively, and he could be an improvement over Phillips), DFA Green, and use Phillips as the back up at 2B and 3B.

2006-07-23 08:42:29
7.   randym77
And here's the lineup. Interesting. Damon is indeed DHing. Bernie's in right, Bubba's in CF, and it's Green instead of Cairo at 2B.

Johnny Damon DH
Derek Jeter SS
Jason Giambi 1B
Alex Rodriguez 3B
Jorge Posada C
Bernie Williams RF
Melky Cabrera LF
Nick Green 2B
Bubba Crosby CF

2006-07-23 09:13:15
8.   monkeypants
4, 7 Andy is indeed slumping badly, and his numbers do not justify starting him at 1B if there is anther option. On the other hand, he SHOULD be starting at 2B, where he should outperform proven veteran Cairo (or toss-up replacement Green).
2006-07-23 09:24:59
9.   randym77
8 I dunno. Cairo's been hitting pretty well this month. And his defense is pretty good.

Andy is not that strong on defense. That's the reason he was moved to 1B.

When he's hot, he's certainly better on offense than Miggy...but right now, he's not hot.

2006-07-23 09:25:56
10.   mickey1956
6 I've been saying that for a while. Pena will give the team the same amount of power, glove, and at least take a few walks. Phillips "'s in July are .153/.176./.292. That is terrible.
2006-07-23 09:26:27
11.   RZG
8 I've never seen Phillips turn a DP at 2B, what's his defensive reputation? If he's mediocre and Giambi's at 1B that's one poor right side of the infield.

I'd rather have a mediocre defender at 2B with poor offense like Cairo than a mediocre hitter with poor defense like I'll ASSume Phillips would be at 2B

2006-07-23 09:28:41
12.   Jeteupthemiddle
Am I the only one that wants Arod batting third and Giambi batting 4th to give the guy some protection?

There is an extreme difference between having Sheffield protect you and having Posada or even Bernie protect you.

2006-07-23 09:33:41
13.   randym77
11 Peter Abraham said Andy's "a butcher" at 2B. Torre certainly doesn't trust his defense at 2B. He said Andy would be playing 2B only in emergencies.
2006-07-23 09:36:06
14.   monkeypants
9, 11 I assume Andy's reputation at 2B is bad, but remember that he was hurt a couple of years ago and he was moved off 3B and 2B partly because of organizational depth (A-Rod and Duncan, Cano). Anyway, Cano should come back SOMETIME, so the team can probably hide bad D for a couple of weeks, and the offensive production will probably improve.

Philips' flexibility in the shield should make him as valuable as Cairo. There is no reason to Cairo, Philips, and Green on the roster at the same time. If Cairo is going to start until Cano gets back, fine. Then dump Green and make Philips a super-sub back-up and RH PH. Or, make Philips the starter at 2B and dump either Cairo or Green, the survivor becomes a defensive replacement.

I trust Philips AAA success more than Cairo's proven bad hitting + hot July. But I can go either way. I'm just tired of seeing the team waste roster spots on redundant, bad players.

2006-07-23 09:39:15
15.   monkeypants
13 I wonder what constitutes an emergency in Torre's mind? I would think having three starters on the DL and one playing with abroken foot an emergency. If not, then cut the guy loose and fill his spot with someone who will be used properly.
2006-07-23 09:41:13
16.   randym77
Torre says he benched Andy today because of his lack of patience at the plate.

He'll probably go on a tear now. Seems like every time I think Joe's given up on him, he gets hot again. :)

12 I want A-Rod in the two-hole. It worked his first year here. Took some of the pressure off, encouraging him to just make contact rather than swing for the fences.

2006-07-23 09:45:06
17.   randym77
15 "I wonder what constitutes an emergency in Torre's mind?"

We saw it yesterday. Andy was at 2B for what, two innings? Before being moved back to 1B.

Jaret Wright pinch-running is definitely an emergency. ;-)

2006-07-23 10:08:25
18.   BklynBmr
Here we go, Yan-kees...

OK, JD!

Funny how Ponson has kind of slipped under the radar with the A-Rod who-ha and other things...

2006-07-23 10:09:00
19.   BklynBmr
A bunt? In the first? Why...
2006-07-23 10:09:15
20.   Ron Burgundy
And Jeter bunts...against a pitcher with a 4.91 ERA!
2006-07-23 10:09:23
21.   randym77
And Jeter bunts him over....

They closed the roof. Should be good for Bernie, anyway. Joe thinks Bernie sees the ball a lot better indoors.

2006-07-23 10:12:28
22.   singledd
12 I agree, ESPECIALLY if 5 is correct. When ARod is cold, he should bat in front of Giambi.

While Melkdud is not much on OPS, his OBP is decent at .350. Since the bottom of our lineup is so weak, I would suggest:

JD
MelkDud
Jetes
ARod
Giambi
Posada
any
any
any

When ARod heats up, put Giambi back in front of ARod.

Also, as GOB has the best BA and OBP of the 'anys', how about batting him 9th as a 'lead off' before Damon?

2006-07-23 10:13:07
23.   Ron Burgundy
Amazing job by our #3 and #4 hitters against a pitcher with an ERA "just under 5."
2006-07-23 10:13:58
24.   singledd
I hate the Jays announcers.
Did anyone else catch the Sox on Fox yesterday when the announcers were trashing Manny? Good stuff.
2006-07-23 10:14:48
25.   monkeypants
OK, yesterday I bitched about Cairo batting #2. But if you're gonna bunt your best hitter because he is the two-hole, you might as well put Cairo/Green back there.
2006-07-23 10:16:30
26.   Cliff Corcoran
Sidney Ponson is bad.
2006-07-23 10:16:33
27.   monkeypants
I'm sorry, is Guiel still on the team...
2006-07-23 10:16:37
28.   randym77
Bernie double. :-P
2006-07-23 10:16:53
29.   Cliff Corcoran
And that bunt was impossibly stupid.
2006-07-23 10:18:02
30.   randym77
27 Guiel is on the team, but he can't play CF. At least, not very well.

Bernie's bat is hot. And like I said, Joe thinks he sees the ball really well indoors.

2006-07-23 10:18:30
31.   Cliff Corcoran
see 26
2006-07-23 10:18:36
32.   BklynBmr
Glad we're playin' small ball...
2006-07-23 10:18:40
33.   rbj
26 Yup.
2006-07-23 10:18:42
34.   Ron Burgundy
Oh, for Babe's sake, WTF?!
2006-07-23 10:19:30
35.   Ron Burgundy
32 God forbid we might actually have a RUN now if we played baseball instead.
2006-07-23 10:20:23
36.   randym77
Ponson had a rough first inning last time, too. Let's hope he can pull himself together.
2006-07-23 10:21:11
37.   monkeypants
30 So let me get this straight--we can't play Philips at 2B because he is bad at defense, even though Cairo can't hit. But we can play Bernie in RF even though he can't play defense.

Oh right, Bernie and Cairo are 'hot' right now. What a way to construct a line-up.

2006-07-23 10:22:18
38.   rbj
So it's Jekyll & Hyde Ponson: 3 Ks interspersed with a double and HR to CF.
2006-07-23 10:22:19
39.   Simone
Ponson's 1st inning has improved.
2006-07-23 10:23:00
40.   BklynBmr
Like his first start, one mistake in the first. ..
2006-07-23 10:23:17
41.   kdw
36 Besides, Wells was 8 for 28 off of Ponson so that one wasn't out of the blue. Hopefully he can keep people off base and limit the damage, and the Yankees' bats wake up.
2006-07-23 10:24:35
42.   Ron Burgundy
Really? Sean Marcum, he with a racoon on his face and an ERA close to 5 is shutting us out?
2006-07-23 10:24:54
43.   Simone
For the love of all that good in baseball, would someone tell Derek Jeter to stop bunting!
2006-07-23 10:25:04
44.   randym77
37 Hey, if it was up to me, I would ban Bernie from the outfield, except in case of emergency. The Jaret Wright pinch-running type of emergency.

I like Cairo, though. Last time I checked, his defensive numbers at 2B were actually better than Cano's.

I think Ponson's improving. He only gave up 2 runs in the first inning. Last time, it was 3.

2006-07-23 10:25:14
45.   BklynBmr
Big K zone today...
2006-07-23 10:25:29
46.   monkeypants
27 Is Bernie 'hot' against RHs? For July: .281/.273/.438--an OPS of c. 700 and the rare OBP lower than BA.
2006-07-23 10:27:24
47.   Ron Burgundy
Our line-up needs Viagra, or something. Because they're getting mowed down by a guy with a really big ERA.
2006-07-23 10:28:26
48.   Ron Burgundy
Go Green Machine!
2006-07-23 10:30:08
49.   BklynBmr
Nick 'The Stick'!!!
2006-07-23 10:30:10
50.   monkeypants
And hot Green earns another start...
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-07-23 10:31:18
51.   Ron Burgundy
Bubba being Bubba
2006-07-23 10:31:58
52.   BayRidger
At least the pitcher er, I mean Bubba, won't lead off the next inning.
2006-07-23 10:33:40
53.   BklynBmr
51 No sh*t...
2006-07-23 10:33:46
54.   BayRidger
Here they go again...making a bad rookie pitcher look like an ace. I hope his Mom is TIVO-ing this one.
2006-07-23 10:34:17
55.   Ron Burgundy
Breath-taking
2006-07-23 10:34:57
56.   Ron Burgundy
Our offense is incredible. IT's amazing to see a line-up with Damon, Jeter, A-Rod, Giambi, and Posada in it suck this much, partly because Jeter keeps bunting and A-Rod/Giambi have been eating feces.
2006-07-23 10:36:03
57.   Ron Burgundy
54 I think there'a "Mothers of rookie pitchers having the best starts of their careers against the Yankees" club by now.
2006-07-23 10:37:34
58.   BayRidger
56. Three words: HUGE. GAPING. HOLES.
(in the lineup, that is; those guys can't do it alone)
2006-07-23 10:38:19
59.   Cliff Corcoran
On the Phillips at 2B issue, he really hasn't played there much at all since, I believe, his injury shortened 2003 season and word is he wasn't a strong defender there even then. I like that Torre's willing to play him there in late-game emergencies, but I wouldn't start him there even if it might help the offense (though for the time being, the points about his OBP can't be argued, though I would be surprised if it didn't improve by season's end).
2006-07-23 10:38:20
60.   Ron Burgundy
58 Agree 100%, though it would be nice to have our #3 and #4 hitters do something other than strikeout or pop-out.
2006-07-23 10:38:29
61.   monkeypants
56 Yeah, and it's all the more amazing when you consider the bench of Stinnett, Green, Cairo, Bubba, etc.
2006-07-23 10:39:49
62.   SF Yanks
With all the injuries and Ponson on the mound, it might as well be the Blue Jays vs. the Orioles right now. Whats the difference?
2006-07-23 10:40:34
63.   Jeteupthemiddle
Ok, I just have to comment.

Kay: But isn't it weird to see Tino Martinez's number on a pitcher?
Leiter: ::audible sigh:: yeah

ha.

2006-07-23 10:40:52
64.   singledd
What happened to Durazo? He would be a decent DH.
2006-07-23 10:42:15
65.   Cliff Corcoran
64 Durazo used his escape clause to get out of his mL deal with the Yanks. He's not in the organization anymore.
2006-07-23 10:42:40
66.   randym77
64 Durazo was released.
2006-07-23 10:43:01
67.   monkeypants
59 I guess my point is that Andy is almost certainly not a starting 1B/DH. So, you either take your chances and start him at 2B, or you make him the primary PH/back-up IF off the bench. If that's the case, there is no need to have Cairo and Green, but there is the need to have a more or less real DH/1B back-up (give Pena a chance?).

The same with Guiel and Bubba. Play Guiel against RH (platooning with Bernie), or get rid of him if you feel that you must keep defensive OF/PR Bubba. There just isn't the room on the roster for so much dead wood (especially with a 12 or 13 man pitching staff).

2006-07-23 10:44:54
68.   BklynBmr
As Singleton is saying, Stinnett caught Ponson last week, this is Jorgie's first time. Two passed balls...
2006-07-23 10:45:28
69.   monkeypants
65, 66 Right, but presumably Durazo exercised his out cause because the Yankees had not called him up. So, the team probably had the chance to call him up but felt they didn;t need to. In fairness, if I recall, Andy was hitting well at the time, and Cano was not yet hurt.
2006-07-23 10:46:28
70.   Ron Burgundy
Ponson = Mark Prior?
2006-07-23 10:48:26
71.   BklynBmr
Maybe luck is on our side today. Two foul squeezes...
2006-07-23 10:49:05
72.   BayRidger
Are they testing A Rod?
2006-07-23 10:49:15
73.   randym77
67 Guiel was supposed to be platooned with Bernie, but Joe keeps finding reasons to play Bernie instead.

Andy is part of the problem. Joe can't DH Bernie when Andy's playing 1B.

Whatever we do, I foresee a logjam at DH in our future.

2006-07-23 10:49:51
74.   Ron Burgundy
Hey look, A-Rod threw the ball overhand! Finally...
2006-07-23 10:49:55
75.   rbj
Yeah! Good throw by Alex
2006-07-23 10:49:56
76.   BklynBmr
72 Ozzie started it. Seems to be catching on, huh?
2006-07-23 10:52:27
77.   monkeypants
73 I totally agree. That was my point about using Andy only as a sub or be willing to use him at 2B. Otherwise he and Giambi clog 1B/DH--ok when Andy hits, but not otherwise.
2006-07-23 10:52:53
78.   singledd
We are very impatient.
After 2 innings we have 3 hits. Not horrible.
After 2 innings, Sir Toad has an ERA of 4.5
A 'Quality Start', 3 runs in 6 innings, equals an ERA of 4.5
Is this pretty close to league average?
We paid nothing for Ponson, our #5 starter. If his ERA is less then 5, I'm happy. Or content at least.
2006-07-23 10:53:12
79.   BayRidger
76. Hey, they watch the highlights too. Although I don't think it really worked for the White Sox.
2006-07-23 10:53:42
80.   Ron Burgundy
Giambi and A-Rod up. We won't score here...
2006-07-23 10:53:48
81.   Simone
See Derek, this is you should always try to a hit the ball and not bunt.
2006-07-23 10:55:12
82.   Ron Burgundy
81 I still don't get what he's thinking.

"OK, I'm hitting like .400, I hit the ball to the right side, which on this turf is almost always a hit, and the Speedy Damon is on 1B, so I should waste an out here and 'move him over.'"

2006-07-23 10:55:29
83.   SF Yanks
"Big footrace" between Giambi and Overbay. I like it.
2006-07-23 10:56:10
84.   BklynBmr
Or 'Bigfoot race'?
2006-07-23 10:56:53
85.   randym77
Just missed a homer.
2006-07-23 10:57:22
86.   Ron Burgundy
Damn, missed a HR by an inch.
2006-07-23 10:57:51
87.   Ron Burgundy
A-Rod up here...
2006-07-23 10:58:17
88.   yankz
I hate when I check in and the boys are down.
2006-07-23 10:58:47
89.   singledd
Is it physically possibly to come any closer to a HR then that?
2006-07-23 10:58:53
90.   SF Yanks
84 Even better.
2006-07-23 11:00:06
91.   Ron Burgundy
Damn it A-Rod...get a hit man.
2006-07-23 11:00:26
92.   Ron Burgundy
Oh, WTF?!
2006-07-23 11:00:41
93.   BklynBmr
80 I hate it when you're right...
2006-07-23 11:00:49
94.   monkeypants
Hmmm. A-Rod. Seven ball. K.
2006-07-23 11:01:30
95.   Ron Burgundy
93 Because it's typical. Our "clean-up" hitter always find a way to strand runners, be it one of them, or both.
2006-07-23 11:01:36
96.   singledd
SHIT!!!
That was a great pitch. Really moved down and in.
2006-07-23 11:01:36
97.   SF Yanks
84 Everytime I read it I start laughing.
2006-07-23 11:01:38
98.   BklynBmr
Jorgie!!!!!!!
2006-07-23 11:01:44
99.   randym77
JORGIE!

He's carrying the team this year, I swear...

2006-07-23 11:02:44
100.   yankz
Thank god Jorge has A-rod's back.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2006-07-23 11:02:47
101.   BayRidger
Finally, someone solves the brilliant Marcum!
2006-07-23 11:03:28
102.   yankz
WTF, Bernie is batting 6th vs. a righty?!
2006-07-23 11:03:54
103.   kdw
Jorgie!!!! Hard to tell if that makes A-Rod feel better or worse.
2006-07-23 11:04:22
104.   Simone
Yay Jorgie!
2006-07-23 11:05:06
105.   yankz
How can someone's OBP be < Batting average?
2006-07-23 11:05:25
106.   tommyl
Exactly who can displace Bernie? I mean, Guiel was the platoon option, but Bernie is still in vs. righties. If we got Abreu, Melky would sit so Bernie can play. Argh.
2006-07-23 11:07:45
107.   kdw
Sterling -- Can't imagine how that would feel but can imagine how awful we would all feel if you ripped off your clothes on the base path...
2006-07-23 11:08:04
108.   monkeypants
105 BA only uses at-bats (so walks and sacs are not included), but OBP uses all plate appearances. So, a player with no walks and a few sacs will have a lower OBP than BA.
2006-07-23 11:08:26
109.   BayRidger
103. Let him and his therapists worry about that.
2006-07-23 11:08:37
110.   Ron Burgundy
105 OBP takes in account total ALL at-bats, as in ABs, and BBs, and HBP. AVG. just counts ABs. So if you just have hits and not walks, your OBP will be lower than AVG. because it's the same amount of times on base, but out of a higher number of plate appearances. I hope that's a good explanation.
2006-07-23 11:10:29
111.   Ron Burgundy
Melky.
2006-07-23 11:10:33
112.   BklynBmr
Lookit that gun on Melkman!
2006-07-23 11:10:35
113.   yankz
Please don't give it right back...
2006-07-23 11:10:37
114.   rbj
Melky!
Webgem!
2006-07-23 11:10:51
115.   randym77
WebGem!
2006-07-23 11:11:16
116.   SF Yanks
That was one hell of a throw!
2006-07-23 11:12:18
117.   tommyl
Well, besides worrying about A-Rod, its much more fun to just marvel at Melky mature before our eyes. Kay finally had a good line, "That's not a left fielder's arm, that's an Olympic one."
2006-07-23 11:12:23
118.   rbj
Sigh.
2006-07-23 11:12:28
119.   Ron Burgundy
He has a cannon.

But sadly, We're down 4-3 on a Glaus HR.

2006-07-23 11:12:31
120.   monkeypants
OK, perhaps the Ponson experiment should end now.
2006-07-23 11:12:40
121.   yankz
108,110, got it, thanks!
2006-07-23 11:12:52
122.   randym77
And all for nought. Come on, Sir Sidney!
2006-07-23 11:13:51
123.   singledd
Any news on Cano?
2006-07-23 11:13:53
124.   yankz
Yup, his ERA is up to 5.56. Cue the puke.
2006-07-23 11:14:14
125.   monkeypants
Wow, Bernie is rubbing off on Bubba. Is that veteran leadership?
2006-07-23 11:16:27
126.   yankz
Who's backing up Ponson today?
2006-07-23 11:17:22
127.   Ron Burgundy
126 Wilson.
2006-07-23 11:17:52
128.   monkeypants
126 Apparently Kris Wilson, one of the three or four interchangeable sucky #4/5 starters who occupy space in the bullpen.
2006-07-23 11:17:58
129.   BayRidger
Zaun's picture on Gameday looks like belongs on a trucker's license...does he have teeth?
2006-07-23 11:18:16
130.   rilkefan
110 doesn't sound quite right to me - e.g. HBP only increases OBP. Sacs however I would think have the desired effect of lowering OBP and not AVG.
2006-07-23 11:18:57
131.   BklynBmr
123 From today's NYPost:

Robinson Cano took batting practice on the field yesterday in Tampa as well as ground balls at second base. However, he didn't run the bases and there isn't a set date for him to test his hamstring injury with that important activity . . .

2006-07-23 11:19:35
132.   randym77
Bubba misread that one. Usually, he's pretty good at reading it off the bat. That's how he scored the tying run from second the other day. He started running as soon as Jorgie hit it.

He expected that hit to be a lot deeper than it was.

And it's Kris Wilson. Oy.

Shawn Chacon may yet get his job back...

2006-07-23 11:20:09
133.   yankz
Oh, yippee.
2006-07-23 11:20:35
134.   Ron Burgundy
130 I'm not sure if I had it 100% right or if I explained it 100% or whatever, but the basic difference is that OBP includes walks.
2006-07-23 11:21:08
135.   Ron Burgundy
Game Over.
2006-07-23 11:21:24
136.   monkeypants
As I said, interchangeable. Where's Chacon for the trifecta?
2006-07-23 11:21:29
137.   BklynBmr
Ponson could have done that. Yeeesh!
2006-07-23 11:21:29
138.   rbj
Oh yea, that is much better than leaving Ponson in.
2006-07-23 11:21:32
139.   yankz
Why is it that whenever a recently added player (Ponson, Wilson) gets his picture taken for Gameday, the cameraman always zooms in way too much?
2006-07-23 11:21:58
140.   murphy
to paraphrase cliff on friday night:

anyone still think we need a bat?

2006-07-23 11:22:08
141.   BayRidger
Time to click over and check out Liriano.

Go Mariners! Go Rangers!

2006-07-23 11:22:18
142.   yankz
This fu*king sucks. This series has revealed weaknesses in both hitting and pitching.
2006-07-23 11:23:07
143.   Cliff Corcoran
7-3 Jays in the third. The Yankees need pitching more than they need hitting.
2006-07-23 11:23:15
144.   BklynBmr
The Wilson experiment should end here, too.
2006-07-23 11:23:57
145.   Ron Burgundy
Kudos to Joe for waving the white flag on this game in the 3rd inning. Way Ta Go Joe!
2006-07-23 11:24:13
146.   monkeypants
140 Yes, they still need a bat. They also need to DFA all the horrible pitchers in the BP. There MUST be something slopping around at AAA better than these clowns.
2006-07-23 11:24:17
147.   KBT
Anyone know if we're in the running to get Schmidt from San Fran?
2006-07-23 11:24:54
148.   BklynBmr
145 He might have waved it on the second batter...
2006-07-23 11:25:07
149.   Cliff Corcoran
Also, I said it when it happened: they bailed on Chacon to quickly. He's not great, but he's better than Sir Sidney and Mr. Wilson.
2006-07-23 11:26:04
150.   BklynBmr
147 Schmidt isn't going anywhere. Giants are first and they'd want the moon for him, anyway...
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2006-07-23 11:26:18
151.   yankz
Make it stop...
2006-07-23 11:26:46
152.   Ron Burgundy
148 Sometimes, it's Jeter bunting on his own though, which still sucks.
2006-07-23 11:26:48
153.   SF Yanks
Did I miss something? I thought it was 4 to 3. I have been watching the whole game. Where did the other three runs come from? Am I in the twilight zone???
2006-07-23 11:26:50
154.   KBT
Maybe Melky can throw a couple innings, can't be worse than this.
2006-07-23 11:26:51
155.   monkeypants
Woo-hoo..Chacon is warming. This is awesome.
2006-07-23 11:27:15
156.   Yankee Fan in Chicago
Just to recpae 5 runs so far this inning, only one out, and that was a shot that Melky made a great catch on?
2006-07-23 11:28:07
157.   Yankee Fan in Chicago
ok, 8 runs, one out, and that out was a shot that Melky made a great catch on?
2006-07-23 11:28:17
158.   BklynBmr
That's it. Put Cairo on the mound and everybody get drunk. Tomorrow's another day...
2006-07-23 11:28:44
159.   randym77
Shoulda left Ponson in.
2006-07-23 11:29:07
160.   KBT
Woo hoo! The Jays are on pace to top Cleveland's 19 run mark..
2006-07-23 11:29:29
161.   yankz
Aaaaand they're officially slumping. HOW can they sweep the White Sox and then lose 3/4 to the BJ's? HOW?!?!
2006-07-23 11:30:02
162.   Ron Burgundy
We just got raped by the Blue Jays to the tune of losing 3 of 4 and after winning 5 in a row including a sweep of the ChiSox to start the season, we have lost 4 of 5, including 3 of 4 to the Blue Jays.
2006-07-23 11:30:18
163.   BklynBmr
Just bring out a batting tee and save Wilson's arm...
2006-07-23 11:30:20
164.   monkeypants
OK, remind me what Smith's ERA was when they sent him down?
2006-07-23 11:30:23
165.   Cliff Corcoran
Bubba actually overran that one.
2006-07-23 11:30:28
166.   SF Yanks
Not that it matters now, but how did the jays score runs 5,6,7. Ahh... who the hell cares now... don't even answer my question, I don't want to know.
2006-07-23 11:30:33
167.   KBT
This is sick.
2006-07-23 11:31:33
168.   singledd
A little more of this and the Jays will be too tired to swing their bats. Good strategy.
2006-07-23 11:31:34
169.   SF Yanks
163 save Wilson's arm... are u crazy? I hope that thing falls off.
2006-07-23 11:31:45
170.   Simone
I step away for a few minutes. Whaa happened?
2006-07-23 11:31:45
171.   Ron Burgundy
164 0.00
2006-07-23 11:31:59
172.   tommyl
Wow, I think that might be the end of Kris Wilson. I mean, this may be the first time where I can say that I honestly think I could have done better pitching and really mean it.
2006-07-23 11:32:13
173.   BayRidger
Time to bring out the reserves...oh wait, they're already playing.
2006-07-23 11:33:11
174.   tommyl
The annoying thing is that we DO have better pitchers. TJ Beam, Colter and especially Matt Smith are all better than this. Where is Mendoza? can he really be worse than Wilson?
2006-07-23 11:33:26
175.   marc
glad I saw Tiger's sensational performance winning the British Open today. At least I'll have seen one good performance.
2006-07-23 11:33:32
176.   BklynBmr
169 I just meant for his career after baseball, which should begin in about 10 minutes...
2006-07-23 11:33:38
177.   rbj
164 0.00 ERA for Smith. WHIP 1.00, BAA .105, 8 BB/ 9K. Certainly don't want that on the staff.
2006-07-23 11:33:56
178.   monkeypants
165 Does that sort of balance out the pop fly he strolled up to earlier in the inning?
2006-07-23 11:34:18
179.   randym77
Aaron Small got lit up his first start in Columbus, but looked good the next two.

His last start, he allowed only one run in seven innings.

2006-07-23 11:34:44
180.   Simone
Come on, Wilson, find a way to get one more out.
2006-07-23 11:34:45
181.   Ron Burgundy
Anybody thinking Sean Marcum is gonna pitch the rest of this game without giving up a run?
2006-07-23 11:36:00
182.   BklynBmr
That was a mercy call on strike 3...
2006-07-23 11:36:40
183.   rbj
The good news is, this should push the A-Rod yapping off for a day.
2006-07-23 11:37:40
184.   KBT
Doubt it: "A-rod's struggles wear off on Yanks"
2006-07-23 11:38:11
185.   Ron Burgundy
183 Doubt it. ESPN: A-Rod strikeout leads to Blue Jays' 8-Run rally.
2006-07-23 11:38:38
186.   monkeypants
183 Naw. He'll hit a HR and ESPN will have a special spot on how it was not clutch.
2006-07-23 11:39:13
187.   randym77
Hey, we came back from 9 down that time against Texas.
2006-07-23 11:39:43
188.   yankz
Didn't see that coming.
2006-07-23 11:40:42
189.   Ron Burgundy
And with a lead, Sean Marcum turns into Roger Clemens.

Strange, when we give OUR pitchers big leads, they suck and walk the ballpark and almost blow the lead. If a crappy douche like Marcum can pitch with a huge lead, why can't guys like Mussina and Randy Johnson do that? That angers me so much.

2006-07-23 11:41:10
190.   Ron Burgundy
187 Good point. We might still be in this...
2006-07-23 11:43:01
191.   BklynBmr
1-2-3 after a huge inning... Not the way to start clawing back...
2006-07-23 11:43:42
192.   yankz
Ok, wtf was that?
2006-07-23 11:44:48
193.   tommyl
190 With Wilson continuing to pitch. Yeah, I think not.
2006-07-23 11:44:49
194.   Ron Burgundy
192 That was our offense doing what it does best, packing it in and giving up on the game.
2006-07-23 11:45:17
195.   randym77
Yeek. Jeez, Johnny. Even Bubba put up more of a fight than that.
2006-07-23 11:46:00
196.   Dimelo
What a great game....
2006-07-23 11:46:46
197.   SF Yanks
196 Couldn't agree more.
2006-07-23 11:47:00
198.   randym77
Michael Kay also thinks Aaron Small may be headed back to the Bronx.
2006-07-23 11:47:23
199.   KBT
Are MLB teams allowed to just forfeit?

Umm, yeah, we don't have any players worth a damn, we quit. See you guys in a week.

2006-07-23 11:48:15
200.   Mattpat11
198 Horrifying.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2006-07-23 11:48:17
201.   Ron Burgundy
I can see how Greg Zaun is frightening to pitch to.
2006-07-23 11:49:14
202.   BayRidger
198. Look out AL, Small is coming back!!!!!!!!!
2006-07-23 11:49:50
203.   tommyl
Lets take bets, how many more outs does Wilson manage to get? I've got one.
2006-07-23 11:49:54
204.   Mattpat11
Eric Hinske goes to the Trot Nixon School of Do You Know Who I Am", huh?
2006-07-23 11:52:14
205.   randym77
Chacon's warming.
2006-07-23 11:53:50
206.   marc
ESPN and Fox reporting because of A-Rod's demoralizing effect the Yankees are losing this game.
2006-07-23 11:54:16
207.   tommyl
206 Is that a joke?
2006-07-23 11:54:55
208.   randym77
Now that was a nice DP all around. Great stop by Jeter, Nick withstood the hard slide, and Giambi made a great scoop.
2006-07-23 11:57:21
209.   Ron Burgundy
Sean Marcum still pitching like Roger Clemens.
2006-07-23 11:58:15
210.   marc
206 re "Is that a joke?"

Sorry, I guess things are so bad some might have taken that seriously. Yes it's a joke.

2006-07-23 11:58:29
211.   randym77
And Giambi goes the other way against the Rocket.
2006-07-23 11:59:32
212.   rbj
Damn. Nice hit by Alex.
2006-07-23 11:59:52
213.   tommyl
Well at least A-Rod had a decent swing there.
2006-07-23 12:00:05
214.   Ron Burgundy
Up yours Catalanotto! DIAF
2006-07-23 12:02:41
215.   Ron Burgundy
And we can't catch a break or win a game.
2006-07-23 12:02:49
216.   yankz
To continue the running joke on this board: A-Rod is the reason Kris Wilson sucks.
2006-07-23 12:02:52
217.   rbj
DIAF?
2006-07-23 12:04:32
218.   yankz
Please pitch well, Chacon.
2006-07-23 12:04:57
219.   BayRidger
I don't know if the Jays are playing for themselves, for thier salaries or for the team, but either way they're kicking the Yankees' ass.
2006-07-23 12:14:48
220.   Ron Burgundy
At least score some garbage runs off these HORRIBLE Blue Jays pitchers. Come on.
2006-07-23 12:18:12
221.   randym77
All right! Bottom of the order comes through!
2006-07-23 12:18:20
222.   rbj
220 At least the bottom of the order is hearing you.
2006-07-23 12:18:32
223.   BklynBmr
If a BB game thread was more appropriately titled, I have not seen it...

C'mon, Yanks!

2006-07-23 12:19:23
224.   marc
historic comeback in progress
2006-07-23 12:19:59
225.   BklynBmr
How about a bunt here, Joe?
2006-07-23 12:22:44
226.   randym77
Bubba's speed pays off.
2006-07-23 12:25:23
227.   marc
If A-Rod gets a grand slam this inning we'll be right back in the game
2006-07-23 12:28:43
228.   BklynBmr
No room for error(s). We gotta hold 'em, then hit 'em...
2006-07-23 12:28:54
229.   Ron Burgundy
217 DIAF = Die In A Fire. It's used on NoMaas.org forums in the Mediots threads where we point out the pure idiocy of sports writers and networks and shows and stuff...
2006-07-23 12:30:06
230.   Mattpat11
What the hell is under Hinske's eyes?
2006-07-23 12:32:20
231.   rbj
Thanks, Ron Burgundy.
2006-07-23 12:34:01
232.   rbj
OK, Alex needs to lead off with a 6 run dinger, otherwise he sucks and needs to be traded.
2006-07-23 12:35:32
233.   BklynBmr
232 LOL! He's hit a few on the screws today with nothing to show for it. I thinkin' a double in the gap...
2006-07-23 12:35:41
234.   Simone
Actually, it would be good if Alex can just get a hit.
2006-07-23 12:36:20
235.   BklynBmr
There I go thinkin' again...
2006-07-23 12:43:13
236.   Mattpat11
Bubba Crosby fucking sucks. Thats the second time tonight he tried a web gem and fucked it to hell.
2006-07-23 12:51:22
237.   Mattpat11
What the hell kind of catch was that? WTF is he doing out there?
2006-07-23 12:58:27
238.   Simone
I'm just glad that I am not watching live.
2006-07-23 12:59:45
239.   AbbyNormal821
UGH - Hi all! See, these are the kinds of games that put me in a shitty mood and make me go out to Bed, Bath & Beyond and spend too much money! Glad I missed most of this game today - UUUUUUUGLEEEEE!!!
Good Lord - please let Boston lose again!
2006-07-23 13:01:45
240.   randym77
WTF? Guiel at 1B?
2006-07-23 13:33:27
241.   randym77
Well, on the bright side, the Mariners are beating the Sox, 3-0.
2006-07-23 13:52:35
242.   kdw
Maybe we shouldn't mention it, taking note seems to be having the wrong effect.
2006-07-23 15:49:17
243.   Stormer Sports
Boston up 7-5.

Ugly game today. The only question I have is why do we have Wilson and Chacon in the pen? Both worthless, both remain. It's time to jettison one of them and bring Smith back up.

It's certainly difficult to blame Alex for anything that happened today. The bottom line is that we can't score runs, and that glows red hot for all to see when our 4 and 5 guys are on the mound. The Jay's scored what, 13 today? The reality is a team need only score 5 or 6 to beat us. This is why we absolutely cannot shoot ourselves in the foot and blow wins when we get good pitching performances from Johnson, Moose, and Wang. I said it the other day. If we continue to lose games like the one RJ pitched in his last start, that will be why we miss the playoffs, not because of Chacon, Ponson, Wilson, Matsui, Sheffield, Cano or Rodriguez!

That is what playoff teams do. They win the ganes that they are supposed to win.

2006-07-23 15:54:21
244.   Stormer Sports
Seattle tied it at 7. Top 8.

The stage is set for Manny and Ortiz.

2006-07-23 16:02:36
245.   BklynBmr
244 What a game. Seattle has 17 LOB, Boston 15 so far...
2006-07-23 16:06:29
246.   BklynBmr
Inside the park HR for Beltre!!!!
2006-07-23 16:06:48
247.   Stormer Sports
Inside the park HR for Beltre, wow! And just when you thought the Yankee defense was bad.
2006-07-23 16:07:15
248.   Stormer Sports
I had to watch that again Bklyn, wow!
2006-07-23 16:08:10
249.   BklynBmr
That was a Bubba-esque attempt by Crisp! And Manny didn't help either...
2006-07-23 16:09:10
250.   BklynBmr
Good thing the throw in was off line, or they would have nailed him...
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2006-07-23 16:09:38
251.   Stormer Sports
Not to mention that the cutoff man was out of position and the relay was poor.
2006-07-23 16:10:13
252.   Simone
Steve Phillips is an ASS! No wonder no team would hire Phillips as a GM after the Mets fired this loser.

I love Harold Reynolds, but even he has joined the Stupid Club with Phillips. Apparently, Phillips' incompetence has rubbed off on Harold.

At least, Kruk is making sense by saying that A-Rod will come out of this situation.

2006-07-23 16:10:46
253.   BklynBmr
Let's hope Hargrove doesn't f#ck this up!
2006-07-23 16:11:58
254.   Stormer Sports
Well. I have always liked Beltre. I live in LA now, and it's a crying shame that his defense doesn't get more press. As far as I'm concerned, Scott Rolen is the only guy in the NL who is close to Beltre's level. The numbers may not be equal, but when a play has to be made at third in a close game, give me Beltre any day.
2006-07-23 16:12:26
255.   BklynBmr
252 Simone, what did that assclown say now? I'm boycotting ESPN unless absolutely necessary...
2006-07-23 16:13:11
256.   Stormer Sports
Papi up! Please please please channel Alex Rodriguez!
2006-07-23 16:14:41
257.   Stormer Sports
Papi K's swinging.
2006-07-23 16:14:55
258.   BklynBmr
252 Agreed on Reynolds! He went from incorherent to the best analyst on the show, but lately he's been acting stupid...
2006-07-23 16:16:30
259.   BklynBmr
256 Hilarious, but oh so cold ;-)
2006-07-23 16:17:44
260.   Stormer Sports
Manny K's swinging!
2006-07-23 16:17:57
261.   BklynBmr
Manny K's. 2 down...
2006-07-23 16:18:19
262.   Stormer Sports
To be fair, they are facing Putz, not Ted Lilly.
2006-07-23 16:19:00
263.   Stormer Sports
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

2006-07-23 16:19:21
264.   BklynBmr
Get the fu¢k outta here. Varitek.
2006-07-23 16:20:38
265.   rbj
Good lord, it has come to this: John Kruk is the voice of reason on BBTN, followed closely by Joe Morgan. Of course, when your competition is Steve Philips that isn't too hard to do.
2006-07-23 16:20:45
266.   BklynBmr
That was crushed...
2006-07-23 16:21:14
267.   Stormer Sports
Why oh why are Major League pitchers insisting on getting beat on their second best pitch! "The way it used to be" was that way for a reason, it fucking worked more often than not! That was like Mariano Rivera throwing a curve ball in an 0-1 count and two outs. Putz, you are a putz!
2006-07-23 16:22:25
268.   Simone
255 Phillips' spiel is insisting that the Yankees have to trade A-Rod because the booing is too much and that once the booing starts in NY it never stops. Tell that to Tino or Reggie, you ASS!
2006-07-23 16:22:44
269.   BklynBmr
267 Contraction, Storm. It's the only answer. 12 teams in each league. It'll thin the herd.
2006-07-23 16:23:35
270.   Stormer Sports
What would Phillips know about booing in NY? He worked for the Mets for crying out loud.
2006-07-23 16:25:29
271.   Stormer Sports
269

I just don't get it. I see it over and over. Varitek having an off year, bat speed slowing, Putz throwing 99 MPH, and he throws him an 88 MPH Hanging Slider? What catcher would call for that?

2006-07-23 16:25:52
272.   Stormer Sports
Sexson bails out the PUTZ!
2006-07-23 16:25:52
273.   BklynBmr
A walk off for Richie Sexton!!!!
2006-07-23 16:27:28
274.   Simone
Nice job, Sexson! Thanks.
2006-07-23 16:28:29
275.   Simone
265 Crazy isn't it? It is Bizarro BBTN.
2006-07-23 16:28:46
276.   BklynBmr
268 Excellent analogy, Simone. Phillips is a complete moron.
2006-07-23 16:32:14
277.   BklynBmr
271 You hear that from Little League on: Never, ever get beat by your second best pitch. If Johjima called that, he needs Ichiro to smack him in the head and tell him how to call a game.
2006-07-23 16:33:19
278.   BklynBmr
268 You can even add Giambi to that list...
2006-07-23 16:35:18
279.   randym77
Thank you, Mariners.

After the game, Torre said they're going to give Ponson at least one more chance. And keep Wilson around.

Sounds like Torre is convinced they need pitching more than a bat now. Which is kind of hard to deny after today. Scoring five runs is decent. Giving up 13 isn't.

2006-07-23 16:35:46
280.   Stormer Sports
277

Tell me about it. But I am seeing it more and more. I think they are trying to "fool" hitters, but don't know the difference between doing it to a veteran and doing it to a youngster. You aren't going to fool good veteran players. If you can throw 99 MPH, than throw 99 MPH and work on location. Sheesh!

2006-07-23 16:38:11
281.   Stormer Sports
279

I agree with Joe about Ponson. What I don't agree with is carrying Ponson, Chacon, and Wilson. It makes no sense when we have Smith and others rotting in the minors and/or we could call up another bench player. This carrying 12-13 pitchers stuff is silly, I don't care how many teams are doing it.

2006-07-23 16:38:31
282.   rbj
278 And Jeter and Mo.

Stevie boy is just upset because his player, Bonilla, got booed. Bonilla's problem, however, is that he was finished when he got to the Mets (IIRC).

2006-07-23 16:39:31
283.   randym77
BTW, why wasn't the Cabbage Patchelbon Kid in? He hasn't pitched for four or five days now.
2006-07-23 16:40:44
284.   Stormer Sports
The greatest explanation I ever heard was "Yankee fans boo because they desperately want to cheer." I don't recall who said it.
2006-07-23 16:43:56
285.   randym77
281 The thing about Ponson, Chacon, and Wilson is that they are potential fifth starters for us. Torre likes Smith and Beam, but they are relievers. I fear we're going to have a lot of dead weight in the bullpen until they settle on a starting rotation.

I have a feeling if they do bring up someone from Columbus right now, it will be Aaron Small.

2006-07-23 16:44:37
286.   Stormer Sports
To be fair to Crisp, the sun was brutal when Beltre hit that ball.
2006-07-23 16:50:07
287.   Stormer Sports
285

I could not agree less with Torre on that one. You carry three bums for a position you don't even need? We don't need to carry three guys to have a 5th starter! We need to carry 4 and a long man who gets the start when we need a number 5, given our depth. It's not rocket science. They are wasting two valuable roster spots and if it continues, we will get exactly what we deserve. We can call up Smith and Beam, and when our number 5 gets shelled we have Villone, Smith, Beam et. al. to clean up the mess. I could understand keeping two of them if Wilson or Chacon had showed any promise, but they haven't. We could have Smith and Beam up, or Smith and another bench player, what they are doing is boneheaded.

2006-07-23 16:53:01
288.   Stormer Sports
285

Smith is a reliever because that is the role he is in now. I would give him a shot at a start, when Ponson, Wison, and Chacon are the other options.

2006-07-23 16:58:43
289.   randym77
Wilson looked so good in Columbus. But he clearly doesn't have what it takes for the Big Leagues right now. Dunno if it's nerves or what, but he's not pitching the way he did in Triple-A.

I can understand giving Chacon and Ponson some leeway. Ponson looked to be a future star at only a few years ago, and if he's really beaten his alcohol problem, maybe he can be good. Chacon is the kind of pitcher who needs to pitch regularly to keep his edge, and like Cliff, I think they pulled the plug on him too early.

But I don't think we can carry both of them for too long. Chacon doesn't pitch well out of the pen. He's a starter. Ponson was fired from his last job because he refused to move to the pen. Someone's got to go.

2006-07-23 17:02:36
290.   randym77
288 I'm not sure about Smith or Beam as a starter. Smith's problem is all the walks he gives up. I think that could come back to bite him as a starter. And Beam's problem is that his fastball is so fast, but laser straight. What someone here described as a homerun waiting to happen.

They're good kids with a lot of talent, but I think they still need to develop more. I wouldn't want to rely on them. I don't think it would be good for them or us.

2006-07-23 17:06:29
291.   Stormer Sports
289

I also agree with you guys about pulling the plug on Chacon. However, they did pull the plug, so keeping him and Wilson and Ponson makes no sense unless they are going to give Chacon a shot. If not, then dump him, package him in a trade, but do something. Wilson is a no-brainer. He should be sent down for Smith. Oh wait, is that too many lefty's for Joe's notebook. You keep pitchers in your bullpen who get hitters out, not because of their handedness! Sheesh, I give up, clearly the powers that be believe the 5th spot is worth carrying three bums and lessening your bench by one player. This is why so many teams are hiring young managers, because for some reason, they are more apt to do things the way they should be done, partly the way it used to be, than the old guys.

2006-07-23 17:24:56
292.   randym77
I think Chacon will get another shot. Joe pretty much said so, at that charity event he did a week ago. Gator's spending a lot of time with Chac, trying to fix his curveball. He's also spending a lot of time with Ponson, working on his mechanics.

In fact, it sounded to me like Joe thought the fifth starter would mostly likely be Chacon in the end.

2006-07-23 18:42:07
293.   Rich
Bubba is beyond awful. It's time to DFA the mascot-like fellow, and bring up KT.
2006-07-23 18:52:09
294.   BklynBmr
At this point, given what's (not) out there, if Chacon is a Gator-tweak away from keeping us in games until the 6th, I can live with that.

Eight days and counting 'till the deadline. If Cashman can pull off a deal for Lieber, there's our #4. Wright becomes five. Chacon spot and long relief.

Should be a tense week for a number of reasons...

2006-07-23 19:00:14
295.   randym77
Doesn't sound like Torre's going to make any major moves. Bubba's not going any where. Neither is Wilson or Ponson. He doesn't anticipate calling up anyone for the Texas series.

It's up to Cashman, I guess....

2006-07-23 19:05:47
296.   BklynBmr
294 On second thought, Lieber maybe not #4 — but definitely worth a hard look for the 5 spot...
2006-07-23 19:14:51
297.   rsmith51
I'll say this to anyone who will listen. How about trying this lineup for a while:

Damon
ARod
Jeter
Giambi
Posada
Phillips
Williams/Guiel
Cabrera
Cairo

ARod will probably hit better with the perceived lower pressure position in the lineup.

2006-07-23 19:20:12
298.   joejoejoe
I was fiddling with the lineup generators that Cliff C. and Ken Arneson discussed in Spring training and came up with the following optimal batting orders based on the Yankee stats to date.

Runs per Game - batting orders 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
5.670 -
D. Jeter A. Rodriguez J. Damon J. Giambi J. Posada A. Phillips A. Guiel M. Cairo M. Cabrera
5.668 -
D. Jeter J. Posada J. Damon J. Giambi A. Rodriguez A. Phillips A. Guiel M. Cairo M. Cabrera
5.665 -
D. Jeter J. Giambi J. Damon A. Rodriguez J. Posada A. Phillips A. Guiel M. Cairo M. Cabrera
5.663 -
D. Jeter A. Rodriguez J. Posada J. Giambi J. Damon A. Phillips A. Guiel M. Cairo M. Cabrera
5.661 -
D. Jeter A. Rodriguez J. Damon J. Giambi J. Posada A. Guiel A. Phillips M. Cairo M. Cabrera

Batting A-Rod second with Jeter leading off is what the stats say is the optimal lineup. I think Damon could use the move to compliment A-Rod and Jeter's fresh legs stealing bases and sing his own praises as a slugger moving down in the lineup. It would defuse a tense situation and it makes practical sense. Batting Jeter leadoff is what all the optimal lineups say is best for the team anyway and most say bat Damon third. So why not let A-Rod steal some bases up in the 2 slot and take some control of his situation and make his own good luck?

See Baseball Musings link to for the lineup generator.
http://www.baseballmusings.com/cgi-bin/LineupAnalysis.py

2006-07-23 19:24:36
299.   randym77
I think it's worth trying A-Rod in the two-hole. Torre did that his first year here, to lower the pressure on him, and it worked. Brought him out of his funk.
2006-07-23 19:28:06
300.   BklynBmr
297 Why not? A good balance of lefty/righty, speed and contact at the top and bottom, lumber in the middle. We could do worse — and have been lately. A-Rod is thisclose to going on a tear, this could be all it takes to ignite it.

Hopefully in 2 weeks we add Cano, 3-4 weeks MatsZilla, and Iron Sheff by Sept 1.

No trade for Sori, please. We can sign him in the off season without losing any top propects.

Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2006-07-23 20:17:35
301.   Stormer Sports
SportsCenter: "Why the Yankees should trade Arod"

They have become the Jerry Springer show. Is there nothing they won't say in order to gain viewers?

2006-07-23 20:25:13
302.   monkeypants
290, 291, etc. I'm a little late to the party after tuning out in the seenth. I've been complaining about this basically all season--it's not just the pithing staff with three bums occupying one spot (the #5 starter, which as Stormer points out could just be a swingman anyway). This redundancy is all through the roster. Why have Cairo AND Green? Why have Bubba and Guiel and Bernie, especially if you don't actually platoon Guiel and Bernie? And then there's Stinnett.

I don't know whether this team needs a bat or an arm more. But I still think that it should be easier to get good value by going for just a replacement level OF--peferrably one who is allowed also to DH or even play 1B. I really fear that they will overpay for another crappy pitcher, who will take up another roster spot.

2006-07-23 20:26:03
303.   joejoejoe
301 ESPN lost me with their daily TO/Donovan McNabb soap opera. It's hard to avoid ESPN entirely if you are a sports fan but they are so juvenile and sensational that you can't take them seriously as a sports news broadcast any longer.
2006-07-23 20:44:56
304.   BklynBmr
303 Good call on the Philly soap opera, that was coverage the National Enquirer had to be embarrassed by. Then 'Bonds on Bonds'? You can't get lower than that. Why they ever fired Keith Olberman is beyond me, he'd be the perfect face of ESPN right now.

Thank God for the Information Age.

2006-07-23 21:13:55
305.   Stormer Sports
302

Hmm. I wish I could offer some alternative to the redundancy in the dugout. However, I don't know how it can be helped. If Matsui, Sheffield, and Cano are healthy, then Green, Guiel, and Melky or Bubba aren't there, so I might offer a pass to Joe and Brian on that one. The decision wasn't made early that we would need a bona fide hitter sooner rather than later and we are paying the price. That being said, I'm not sure that there was anything out there that would have been worthwhile for us. I resigned myself a while ago that we would suffer with a hodge podge lineup until Mats, and now Cano, get back.

The handling of the pitching on the other hand has been unforgiveable. Keeping three guys who blow in order to fill a relatively unimportant role is ridiculous. At the very least, bump Wilson to get Smith up, or bring up KT. Just because you HAVE carried 12 or 13 pitchers, doesn't mean you HAVE TO continue to do so.

We wouldn't even have Ponson if we weren't the Yankees. No matter what happens there, Cash gets no credit. There is a case to be made that not much can be done with the present lineup (6 of 1, half dozen of another with most of the guys, even in the minors), and that not much will be available on the trade market, but the handling of the bullpen, Wilson, and Chacon has been horrible. At the very least it opens up a bench spot. Joe Joe Joe.

2006-07-23 21:16:37
306.   Stormer Sports
Oh, and why the Yankees didn't just sign Flaherty to a one year deal in lieu of Stinnett is beyond me. Joe once called him "the best backup catcher I've had since Posada took over the starting role." I mean I can understand letting him go for a bona fide bachup, but Stinnett isn't, and wasn't, that guy.
2006-07-23 21:44:15
307.   monkeypants
305, 306 I basically agree with you, but the seeds were planted before the injuries (by even having benchers like Bubba and Bernie). The team was constructed around the tacit premise that no starter would get hurt for any length of time, and that the back-up players would fill very select roles (Bubba = late inning defense, Cairo = IF sub, Bernie = switch hitter guy, Stinnett = back-up C). The back-ups were never expected to hit, except maybe Bernie with some wishful thinking--they would only be 'carried' one one or another given day.

But then the injuries came. the inflexible benchers were forced into the line-up, and their spots wer replaced by...redundant benchers.

Just think of the possibilities. If they managed to sign Piazza, they would have a back-up C, starting DH, back-up C, potent RH bat off the bench. OK, that's an extreme eample. But even if they had a halfway decent back-up OF who can hit near league average and play some defense (rather than use two players Bernie and Bubba to do the same).

And you are soooo right about the 12/13 pitcher staffs. If you carry only, say, 11 pitchers the extra roster spot(s) can be filled by boutique players, like a speedy PR/defense guy, or lefty slugger guy, etc.

2006-07-23 22:49:41
308.   joejoejoe
Mike Mussina made some pretty extensive comments in defense of Alex Rodgriguez at MLB.com. It's very interesting to see Mussina stand up in defense of A-Rod and directly contrast A-Rod's struggles with Jeter's slumps of the past.

"When Jeter went 1-for-April a couple years ago, how long did it take people to actually boo him?" Mussina said. "And even then, it was a smattering. It wasn't lethal booing."

http://tinyurl.com/km3zm

Good for Moose. At least when the fans boo him it sounds like Mooo-se! My solution to the whole problem is to start calling A-Rod by his middle name, Emmanuel. Ma-nuuuuu is close enough to Booooo that maybe he won't notice.

2006-07-23 23:10:04
309.   Stormer Sports
307

I agree with you for the most part. I was concerned at the beginning of the season with regard to our basically impotent bench players. However, we did go into the season without a real DH. So long as the DH is in place, a money rich tam has to treat DH just like any other position, get the best player you can, and the Yankees didn't do that. We basically entered the season with Bernie as our DH platooning with Giambi's defensive replacement at 1st and replacement outfielders. It would have been nice to sign Piazza, as you said, he would fill two crucial roles on the club.

I can only imagine what some Pittsburgh fan might think to read our analysis and critiques in here, considering the lineup we began the season with was so far superior on papaer to any other in MLB, bar none. I just can't see an argument that we didn't have the best lineup in the league. That being said, even with Damon, Jeter, Giambi, Rodriguez, Posada, Cano, Williams, with decent pitching I would expect the Yankees to win a lot of games, not 116 games, but enough to compete for a playoff spot. And that is exactly what they are doing. What Matsui and Sheffield give you complete what "should" be, a "shock and awe" type of offense. We just weren't prepared for this scenario going into the season, plain and simple. If your suggestion is that they were operating under a "best case scenario" way of thinking, not really going out and getting those "what if" players, and carrying too many questionable pitchers, has bit us in the ass, then I totally agree.

I'm not sure who to blame, whether the media, hell, I don't like chicken and egg problems. However, lately, the fans have adopted a "look how much money they make, perform at all costs" approach which is generally bad for sports. Fans are forgetting that baseball is supposed to be fun most of the time. The fans should have fun too, not simply breathe bad energy. We have a lot of guys making well above average salaries by today's standards, but they are still human beings. What would Jeter get today if he were negotiating at the same age he negotiated his big extension, maybe 12-14 per. for 7 years? Our guys negotiated contracts at just the right moment in time on just the right team (well, with Arod it was more just timing) in the middle of a run, and they hit huge, un-heard of pay days. They were at the nexus of the baseball money binge during the nineties.

Although the above is true. They are still just ball players, so fans, at least lighten up on the guys at home. We can't control SportsCenter. There is a time for booing, but this isn't the time.

2006-07-23 23:10:44
310.   Zack
306 Wait, wait, did you really just lament not resigning Flash Flaherty? Stinnett had better #'s going into this season, and Flash was pretty much worthless all around. Kelly is too, but he is pretty much the same as Flash: worthless. And Joe calling him the best backup catcher makes no sense considering that ALL the other backups were much much mich better...

But in any case, quotes like this reinforce my belief that Torre has no idea how to manage a BP:
"Asked why he did not use the left-hander Ron Villone to face Hinske, Torre said: "I'd rather have the other pitchers try to get through the early innings. The pressure innings are where I want Villone — the sixth, seventh, eighth and ninth. We couldn't make it through the third."

Hey Joe, it doesn't matter if you save Villone for the later innings when the craptastic guys you put in in these "non-pressure" situations allow 13 runs!

2006-07-23 23:23:17
311.   Stormer Sports
308

Fans and players exchangung barbs, that can't be good. I support Moose, but ugh, the tone of all of this is a little scary and has been blown widely out of propotion. I will however never support any comment that pits one player against another, no matter what the subject. So, I guess I am dissapointed in the language of the comments, not the sentiment. It's getting to the point where they will need a All Arod All The Time cable channel. I was too young for Reggie, was it this bad?

Although Jeter did come out of his slump. If the slump had continued, the booing would have as well. However, this Arod booing seems to have taken on an angry frightening tone, no doubt a contingent of those folks who will just never accept the guy, and those brainwashed by the media. Whatever it is, it's embarassing.

Moose must mean what he said I suppose, chastising fans in a contract year.

2006-07-23 23:26:31
312.   Stormer Sports
310

Like we were saying above, we have far too many slugs in the bullpen. That has as much to do with this game than anything. Maybe Beam and Smith get shelled, maybe they don't.

2006-07-24 01:36:38
313.   joejoejoe
311 I think there is an undercurrent in what Moose said of that the Yankees with rings need to speak up for THIS team and not always retreat to how it was done in '96-00. This isn't that team or those players. Jeter doesn't have to tell the fans not to boo A-Rod but he can say "hey, boo me. I haven't won a World Series in 5 years, I make an out 25 times a week." Bernie and Posada could do the same. Mussina has been good not great in his time with the team but his comments ring true - it's been a successful run even without the championship and it's time that players like Mussina and A-Rod got recognized for contributing AS Yankees.

I'm 37 and grew up thinking the Yankees won every year (pennants 76-78, 2 WS). Then I thought '79-81 was some kind of some kind of odd mistake because the Yankees are SUPPOSED to win. Then it was basically rooting for Don Mattingly like he was Ernie Banks for over a decade. I learned that winning 6 out of 10 games is a very hard thing to do in the major leagues. There is an entire generation of Yankee fans that don't know it's hard to win.

The thing that bothers me about the booing of A-Rod isn't A-Rod getting booed. A-Rod is a big boy. I'm bothered because it makes Yankee fans look incredibly stupid. Yankee fans used to be the smartest fans and most in tune with the game. Clapping with two strikes for the home pitcher to get the K doesn't happen in most ballparks because most fans don't know the count in other cities. It was invented in NY (mostly for Guidry). Now they think A-Rod is a failure because he doesn't hit a home run in every at-bat.

.313/.354/.517
.277/.379/.499
.323/.372/.511

That's Vlad, A-Rod, and Tejada. A-Rod's having an awful year? He's still on pace to score 114 runs and drive in 121. I'll bet A-Rod is in the top 5 in both by the end of the year. Giambi's hitting .258, a former MVP and makes $20M. Where are his boos? It's a free country but the boo-birds just look stupid, as does ESPN for covering one man's down year like it's the Middle East peace crisis.

2006-07-24 03:51:24
314.   randym77
309 >> I can only imagine what some Pittsburgh fan might think to read our analysis and critiques in here... <<

They think we're a bunch of spoiled brats. A friend of mine who's a Pirates fan got tired of me kvetching about the Yankees bench, and reminded me that many of the Yankees bench players would be starting on another team.

I can't really complain about Green, Guiel, etc. They were added due to injury, picked off the trash heap. Sure, it would be better to get stars like Hunter or Abreu, but we weren't going to get them. Not without paying through the nose.

What I wish they'd do is make a decision and stick to it. It worked with Melky. They stuck with him despite his struggles, and it's paid off. He may not be a superstar, but he's solid enough. The revolving door lineup we had last year came back to bite us in the ALDS, and I think we're risking that again. It's very stressful for players to come in every day not knowing if they're starting or what, and that's got to be affecting their play.

That said...the rule of thumb is that if a team is consistent, the problem is the pitching. That certainly seems to be the case here. They need to get the starting rotation nailed down, one way or another.

2006-07-24 03:57:51
315.   randym77
314 Arrghh. That should be, "If a team is INconsistent," of course.

And speaking of backup catchers...Widger and Fasano were both DFA'd over the weekend. Might be worth a look, if only for depth's sake.

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