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Toronto Blue Jays
2006-07-20 14:09
by Cliff Corcoran
Note: The Bronx Banter blog has moved to bronxbanterblog.com.

In November 2001, the Toronto Blue Jays hired Oakland A's director of player personnel J.P. Riccardi to be their new general manager, hoping that some of Billy Beane's sabermetric pixie dust could revive the declining franchise. The Blue Jays, the first team ever to draw 4 million fans back in 1991, and back-to-back World Champions in 1992 and 1993, had seen their attendance decline steadily in the wake of the strike, with fewer than 2 million fans coming to SkyDome in 2001. Their on field success was in similar decline, with their best post-strike season placing them 26 games behind the 114-win Yankees in 1998, and their record declining in each of the following three seasons.

Riccardi's first year saw the Jays decline by another two games, but their attendance saw a small but meaningful improvement. In 2003, Riccardi's second season, the Jays improved by eight games, winning just two fewer games than in 1998. Things seemed to be going according to plan, with young stars Vernon Wells, Roy Halladay, Eric Hinske, Orlando Hudson, and Josh Phelps leading the charge. But just as quickly the bottom dropped out. Injuries and disappointing seasons shaved 19 wins off the Jays' record in 2004 in a season when many, myself included, expected them to finally disrupt the New York and Boston hegemony at the top of the division. Instead, they broke Tampa Bay's hold on last place.

The Jays bounced back just as quickly last year, improving by 13 games despite finishing eight games below their 88-74 Pythagorean Record (an exact match of their real life 1998 finish). Emboldened by that improvement, signs of weakness from the Yanks and Sox (who tied for the AL East lead and were both eliminated in the ALDS), and an increase in cash flow in the wake of their buying out the lease on the rechristened Rogers Centre, the Blue Jays approved a total of $210 million in payroll increases over the 2006-2008 seasons. With the extra cash, Riccardi went out and signed fellow initialites A.J. Burnett and B.J. Ryan to absurd contracts and traded for high profile cornermen Troy Glaus (who also makes a pretty penny) and Lyle Overbay.

Still, despite their splashy offseason, I really didn't expect much from the Blue Jays this year. Thus far, I've been wrong as the Jays have been hanging tight in the AL East and Wild Card races and on pace for their first 90-win season since their last World Championship season. But the cracks are beginning to show.

Despite the big pitching contracts and the fantastic performance of Ryan (0.96 ERA, 0.73 WHIP, 10.99 K/9), the Blue Jays have been winning this season primarily due to their offense. They currently sport the majors best team OPS and slugging percentage, are third in on-base percentage and are fifth in the AL in runs scored. The men primarily responsible for this surge in offense have been Vernon Wells, who was a key factor in their encouraging 2003 season, but hasn't lived up to that performance until surpassing it this year with a .311/.378/.597 line, and Alexis Rios, a 25-year-old former prospect in his third season who had been demoted into a platoon role entering the season only to take his full-time right field job back with a .330/.383/.585 performance.

The Jays have also gotten fantastic results from their platoon in the opposite pasture as well. Lefty Frank Catalanotto and righty Reed Johnson have been sharing time for three years, but this year they've hit a combined (and evenly distributed) .341/.439/.499, all of which would be career highs for either player. The man who was supposed to platoon with Rios, fallen Rookie of the Year Eric Hinske, has also been experiencing a renaissance, with a .267/.359/.507 line that rivals his career-best rookie season. Amazingly, Wells, Rios, Catalanotto, Johnson and Hinske are not the only Blue Jay hitters experiencing career-best seasons as Lyle Overbay, silencing all the doubters who didn't think he'd perform outside of Miller Park, has reverted to his 2004 form with a .305/.367/.517 line, and 24-year-old second baseman Aaron Hill has stepped up with an admittedly punchless, but otherwise strong .303/.352/.395. All of that easily outweighs the foolish decision to sign Bengie Molina (.286/.327/.425) coming off a career year when they already had Gregg Zaun (currently .301/.375/.510, and yes, that is a completely uncharacteristic slugging percentage) in a limited role. Though they really do need to do something about the fact that they're currently starting the notoriously good-field, no-hit John McDonald (.220/.255/.275) at shortstop.

The concern here, of course, is that six of the spots in the Blue Jay's line-up are filled by hitters having career years that may not be sustainable in the second half. Indeed, Rios has been out since late June with a staph infection in his left leg, Troy Glaus, up to his usual tricks, has missed the last three games with a knee injury, and the Jays are currently one game below .500 for the month of July, even with Johnson and Hinske taking their places.

Rios's infection, which apparently spread to rookie pitcher Ty Taubenheim, prompted the Blue Jays to disinfect what appears now to be a clearly poisoned clubhouse. Supposed franchise savior Riccardi has criticized his rookie pitchers in the press and, after the team lost its first two games in a series in Kansas City two weeks ago, said his three, four and five hitters were "killing" the team despite the fact that Wells, Glaus and Overbay are all are having excellent seasons and his team is on pace for a ten-game improvement over last year. Then came this whole Shea Hillenbrand mess.

For those who missed it, Hillenbrand and his wife applied to adopt a child, expecting they wouldn't be awarded a kid until the offseason. Instead, they were matched with an expecting mother in June who delivered last Friday, causing Hillenbrand to leave the team temporarily to be with his wife and newborn daughter. Upon returning to the team, Hillenbrand was outspoken about not being immediately reinserted into the lineup or even being congratulated by team officials on his family's new addition. The strife appears to have been the last straw in a season of discord between Hillenbrand and management and resulted in his being designated for assignment yesterday (Jason Phillips has been called up to take Hillenbrand's spot on the roster, while Gregg Zaun will likely become the team's new DH, at least until Rios returns and the position can be used for a rotation of the team's strong bench players).

The Blue Jays apparently believe that Hillenbrand is a clubhouse cancer and that his removal from the team is addition by subtraction, especially given the strong showings of their bench player and Hillenbrand's habit of disappearing late in the season (career numbers in August: .262/.304/.404 and September: .271/.302/.408 vs. overall .288/.327/.448). But the circumstances surrounding Hillenbrand's departure could have as negative an effect on this team as his presence supposedly did. Either way, the Yankees will be the first to get a look at the post-Shea Jays tonight in Toronto.

Here's hoping all of this Hillenbrand hubaloo doesn't overshadow tonight's absolutely top-notch pitching match-up of staff aces Mike Mussina and Roy Halladay. Last April, Halladay faced off against Randy Johnson in what was one of the most exciting pitchers duels I've ever seen, a 2-0, double complete game classic that the Blue Jays won when Eric Hinske hit a two-run homer just over Yankee Stadium's short right field porch. Here's hoping, with the location flipped, we see a similar game with a similarly inverted result tonight.

Toronto Blue Jays

2006 Record: 52-42 (.553)
2006 Pythagorean Record: 51-43 (.547)

Manager: John Gibbons
General Manager: J.P. Riccardi

Home Ballpark (2005 Park Factors): Rogers Centre (102/102)

Who's Replaced Whom?

  • Jason Phillips replaced Shea Hillenbrand
  • Chad Mottola replaced Alexis Rios (DL)
  • A.J. Burnett (DL) replaced Josh Towers (minors)
  • Shaun Marcum replaced Gustavo Chacin (DL)
  • Brian Tallet replaced Pete Walker (DL)
  • Brandon Chulk replaced Jason Frasor

Current Roster

1B – Lyle Overbay (L)
2B – Aaron Hill (R)
SS – John McDonald (R)
3B – Troy Glaus (R)
C – Bengie Molina (R)
RF – Reed Johnson (R)
CF – Vernon Wells (R)
LF – Frank Catalanotto (L)
DH – Gregg Zaun (S)

Bench:

L – Erik Hinske (UT)
L – Russ Adams (IF)
R – Chad Mottola (OF)
R - Jason Phillips (C/1B)

Rotation:

R – Roy Halladay
R – A.J. Burnett
L – Ted Lilly
R – Shaun Marcum
R – Casey Janssen

Bullpen:

L – B.J. Ryan
R – Justin Speier
L – Scott Schoeneweis
L – Scott Downs
L – Brian Tallet
R – Vinnie Chulk
R – Brandon League

DL: R – Alexis Rios (RF), L – Gustavo Chacin, R – Pete Walker, R – Ty Taubenheim

Typical Lineup

R – Reed Johnson (RF)
L – Frank Catalanotto (LF)
R – Vernon Wells (CF)
R – Troy Glaus (3B)
L – Lyle Overbay (1B)
S – Gregg Zaun (DH)
R – Bengie Molina (C)
R – Aaron Hill (2B)
R – John McDonald (SS)

Comments (452)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-07-20 14:30:19
1.   randym77
CF Damon
SS Jeter
DH Giambi
3B Rodriguez
C Posada
RF Williams
1B Phillips
LF Cabrera
2B Cairo

Looks like we're going to have to trade for Abreu or Sori to get Bernie out of the outfield...

2006-07-20 14:31:09
2.   yankz
Is Bernie really in RF? Why?! He can't play defense or hit righties. What is the point of having Guiel on the team?!
2006-07-20 14:33:00
3.   Ron Burgundy
Halladay is due for a beating. We have to pound him, as "Los Rangers" have already bent over for the Red Sawx.
2006-07-20 14:33:59
4.   Ron Burgundy
2 For his presence. Jeez, we finally have someone over 30 who actually has a use in him, and now Joe refuses to use that guy over 30. He STILL thinks Bernie is an everyday player.
2006-07-20 14:34:31
5.   Shaun P
1 2 Once again, I would like to channel the spirit of Rob Gee:

afdkjlw reoljadf Bernie vs a RHP ytrtlvd nvanwre nreeew wrwouavc jwmnfldsfldsz

And people wonder why folks complain about Mr. Torre. Its not that I want him fired, or that I know anyone who could take over for him, but the little things that are so overtly stupid - like playing Bernie vs a RHP instead of Guiel - drive me nuts. Because they get repeated over and over and over . . . after he (Torre) talks in the papers about not wanting to play Bernie against righties!

2006-07-20 14:36:22
6.   randym77
2 So says WFAN. I'm hoping it's a mistake.

Let me guess. Bernie's seen Halladay before, so we have to play him against the tough righty.

His numbers against Halladay don't look very good, at least not recently, so it can't be that.

2006-07-20 14:38:14
7.   Ron Burgundy
5 Thing is, if (AGAIN, IN THEORY) we were to somehow aquire Abreu or Sori without giving up Melky, the OF would be Bernie-Johnny-NewGuy. Joe just won't bring himself to take out Bernie because he thinks WE will be mad at him. It's not the FANS (us) that will be mad, it will be the stupid fairwheather/bandwagon people who boo A-Rod and thought Melky was crap and shouldn't have been starting over Bernie and think Bernie is actually (still) a great baseball player.
2006-07-20 14:40:23
8.   Shaun P
6 You're right, randym - since 2004, Bernie is 0 for 7 vs Halladay.

But his overall numbers vs Halladay are .348/.367/.565 in 48 ABs, so I'm guessing that's the reason why.

Sigh.

It doesn't help that Guiel is 0 for 7 career vs Halladay, and that Torre doesn't know what a small sample size is.

2006-07-20 14:44:42
9.   Ron Burgundy
8 So after Hughes first bad start, Joe will order him traded or sent down. But then again, I am reminded that Joe won't be here to try and kill the careers of Jose Tabata, Phillip Hughes, Eric Duncan, and Brett Gardner. And where the HELL is Matt Smith? I thought Joe said he TRUSTED him? So why is he rotting away in AAA AGAIN despite having a 0.00 ERA?
2006-07-20 14:49:45
10.   randym77
9 No room on the roster, I suspect. Chacon is a dead weight right now, but they aren't going to DFA him.

BTW, Dotel had a setback today. He's been shut down pending another visit to a specialist.

2006-07-20 14:50:13
11.   Shaun P
9 But Ron, Joe wants a long guy out of the pen, and only Chacon can fill that role!

Why Wilson couldn't be the long guy is beyond me. Why Torre would rather have Chacon on the roster over Smith is also beyond me.

2006-07-20 14:58:56
12.   Bama Yankee
Anyone see where Tim Wakefield broke his rib by sleeping wrong or by sneezing? Who diagnosed him, Snow White?

Also, does anyone think we will see a bloody undershirt in his furture?

2006-07-20 15:05:57
13.   Ron Burgundy
12 If we see a bloody uniform, I think his ribs are the least of his worries...
2006-07-20 15:12:31
14.   Chyll Will
I'm just throwing it out there, but do you think Torre lost his respect for young players when Christian Parker, who was practically lights out in spring training several years ago, hurt himself right before the season began and was lit up in his only start, then admitted to hiding the injury afterwards? I recall Torre was beside himself and thereafter CP became JH (Jimmy Hoffa)... just a theory.
2006-07-20 15:20:05
15.   randym77
And how about the Braves landing Wickman? A lot of people thought the Braves were done, but they went on a heck of a streak and are still in it.
2006-07-20 15:24:34
16.   JeremyM
Bernie in right? Are you kidding? Guiel has shown some potential to be useful (as did Thompson), so let's bury him.
2006-07-20 15:33:26
17.   RichYF
10 I really really really hope it's nothing major. How long do we have to wait for this guy? {s Karsay anyone (if anyone gets that reference, we're officially dating)?
2006-07-20 15:40:07
18.   Ron Burgundy
17 My thoughts exactly..
2006-07-20 15:42:59
19.   Bob Timmermann
If we see a bloody uniform, I think his ribs are the least of his worries...

That would be somewhat like Roy Hobbs wouldn't it?

2006-07-20 15:51:27
20.   tommyl
Matsui to start taking BP in a few days! Yay!
2006-07-20 15:52:09
21.   Ron Burgundy
19 Yeah. Same how Hobbs ended his career, really.
2006-07-20 15:56:10
22.   Ron Burgundy
21 *Shame
2006-07-20 16:08:53
23.   rbj
Nice start Johnny.
2006-07-20 16:09:14
24.   yankz
Please don't bunt Captain
2006-07-20 16:09:30
25.   yankz
Are you kidding me?
2006-07-20 16:09:48
26.   yankz
I guess I'm the only one that wants Jeter to win a batting title.
2006-07-20 16:09:49
27.   tommyl
24 You have to yell louder. They are in Canada.
2006-07-20 16:10:24
28.   yankz
27 I'll try, but if Torre's calling the bunts, he's probably wearing earplugs.
2006-07-20 16:11:30
29.   Knuckles
So with the bunt, the amount of runs the Yanks could 'expect' to score this inning dropped from 0.92 to 0.70.

Slick.

2006-07-20 16:12:40
30.   randym77
That game where the Yanks bunted four times, Torre said none of them were called from the dugout. He said he's encouraging players to think for themselves and take the initiative without being constantly coached.
2006-07-20 16:12:47
31.   yankz
29 Not to mention you take the bat out of the hands of the Yankee most likely to get a hit.
2006-07-20 16:13:50
32.   Ron Burgundy
"Derek, I know you're hitting .400, but I need you to bunt and move Johnny over."
2006-07-20 16:15:12
33.   yankz
From Newsday-

"According to two people who have spoken with George Steinbrenner, his top choice to boost the Yankees' offense is Washington's Alfonso Soriano.

The Yankees will more likely wind up with Abreu or Kansas City's Reggie Sanders. "

That really bites.

2006-07-20 16:15:21
34.   Simone
Someone please tell Derek Jeter to stop bunting. He is has the highest BA and the most hits, but he is bunting. Insanity.
2006-07-20 16:16:02
35.   Zack
Nothing like a bunt to ruin an inning

And the Jays announcers take up the A-rod debate...

2006-07-20 16:16:46
36.   Ron Burgundy
Jason has been "Teh Suck" w/RISP spots this last month and a half or so. I remember YES showing him like .200 in June or July w/RISP.
2006-07-20 16:17:03
37.   Zack
Anyone else watching mlb.tv? is it just me or does the Jays' feed look really weird, like on a weird angle or something?
2006-07-20 16:17:20
38.   yankz
Slow Toaster today?
2006-07-20 16:19:06
39.   rbj
36 We gotta start booing Jason then. He's not being clutch.
2006-07-20 16:19:17
40.   yankz
I hate you, ESPN.
2006-07-20 16:20:15
41.   Benjamin Kabak
I for one am glad to see Derek bunting in the first inning.

Not.

2006-07-20 16:21:12
42.   Ron Burgundy
40 What did those dirty pirate hookers say?
2006-07-20 16:22:19
43.   yankz
42 They showed how many stats A-Rod has, and then displayed that he leads AL 3rd baseman. I'm not even listening, I have it on mute and I'm listening to music instead.
2006-07-20 16:22:29
44.   rbj
Sign that kid up!
2006-07-20 16:23:56
45.   Ron Burgundy
43 I'm not sure I understand.
2006-07-20 16:24:26
46.   yankz
Er, how many errors...
2006-07-20 16:24:41
47.   tocho
37 I have it as well, they seem to be longer, its very disturbing.
2006-07-20 16:24:42
48.   yankz
it should read, "they showed how many errors A-Rod has"
2006-07-20 16:24:56
49.   SF Yanks
42 haha!
2006-07-20 16:25:38
50.   Ron Burgundy
48 What does that have to do with the game? Stupid Bahstonian douchebags.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-07-20 16:26:54
51.   yankz
50 Absolutely nothing, which is why I hate them. (BTW, I love the insult)
2006-07-20 16:28:42
52.   rbj
Guys, why are you comparing ESPN to pirates and hookers. That's a slur on pirates and hookers.
2006-07-20 16:30:02
53.   Ron Burgundy
52 Pirates are wonderful. Those guys from the Bahamas and Dominican Republic know how to slice it.
2006-07-20 16:30:16
54.   Benjamin Kabak
So have y'all heard the A-Rod-to-Phillies completely and utterly unsubstantiated rumor under discussion at Yanks Fan vs. Sox Fan?
2006-07-20 16:31:48
55.   Knuckles
So what can we compare ESPN to, if not pirate hookers?

Drag racing groupies? Boston barmaids? Sheep shaggers?

2006-07-20 16:32:02
56.   Ron Burgundy
54 Yeah, that was a joke rumor started by some Yankee haters who thought that if they spread it enough and enough people believed it would actually become true.
2006-07-20 16:32:05
57.   randym77
54 And everywhere else in Yankeedom. Utterly ridiculous.
2006-07-20 16:32:45
58.   Benjamin Kabak
56, 57 It might be the dumbest near-deadline rumor I've ever heard.
2006-07-20 16:33:05
59.   rsmith51
Bernie!
2006-07-20 16:33:07
60.   Ron Burgundy
Bernie making me eat some crow.
2006-07-20 16:33:36
61.   JeremyM
Yeah, nice of Bernie to make me look like a fool for doubting him.
2006-07-20 16:33:38
62.   randym77
Joe's a genius, putting Bernie in... ;-)
2006-07-20 16:33:40
63.   rbj
55 I'll take the Boston barmaids. They certainly suck enough Red Sox c*ck
2006-07-20 16:33:44
64.   yankz
60 Took the words right out of my mouth.
2006-07-20 16:34:24
65.   JeremyM
Gameday says Phillips grounded out to left?! One thing on Phillips, he's a hacker, or so it seems.
2006-07-20 16:34:41
66.   SF Yanks
3 batters, 3 pitches, way to work to count
2006-07-20 16:34:56
67.   SF Yanks
the
2006-07-20 16:35:05
68.   yankz
I know it's a dumb stat, but Bernie's BA is .001 behind A-Rod's. If platooned correctly...
2006-07-20 16:35:44
69.   Benjamin Kabak
The last three batters in that inning just saw a total of three pitches. That's not going to help the Yanks get to Roy Halliday.
2006-07-20 16:36:30
70.   randym77
65 No, I think this one of those games where they've been told to swing on the first pitch. In fact, the YES announcers just said that's the best way to hit Halladay.
2006-07-20 16:36:41
71.   Benjamin Kabak
68 Too bad his OPS is .140 behind A-Rod's.
2006-07-20 16:36:57
72.   Knuckles
Yeesh, ugly coupla innings here, and now I get to leave work and face a 30 min bike ride home in fun DC humidity.

I'm gonna smell like a pirate hooker by the time I get home; better be 8-0 Yanks by then.

2006-07-20 16:37:24
73.   Benjamin Kabak
70 Hmm. That's interesting. Did they say why? First-pitch fastballs? I'm not at home watching tonight. I miss the occaisional insightful comment.
2006-07-20 16:37:45
74.   yankz
I didn't say he was even close to A-Rod, I'm not an idiot. I just said "if platooned correctly..."
2006-07-20 16:38:21
75.   randym77
73 They didn't say why. I assume it's because he throws first-pitch strikes and you don't want to get behind in the count against him.
2006-07-20 16:40:41
76.   Marcus
66 There's an interesting article on Baseball Analysts today by a guest author talking about how the numbers show it makes sense to swing at the first pitch if you get a good pitch. Particularly in an RBI situation. Check it out, the link is on the side bar.

It's a very broad analysis, but it's interesting to see how the numbers have been consistent at least over this season and last.

2006-07-20 16:42:51
77.   pistolpete
Wow, Moose looks downright filthy tonight....
2006-07-20 16:43:46
78.   Stormer Sports
Moose is De De De De Dealing!
2006-07-20 16:45:22
79.   yankz
The two weak links have gotten hits!
2006-07-20 16:45:24
80.   randym77
First pitch swinging pays off for Miggy...
2006-07-20 16:46:37
81.   yankz
Cha-ching! Clutch SB!
2006-07-20 16:46:43
82.   Stormer Sports
The best I hope for playing on this 1970's breezeway turf is a series win and no injuries. Ban Turf!

Miggy! Bengie, seriously, Benjie, come on now. A 250 lb Kelly Stinnett.

2006-07-20 16:46:49
83.   yankz
DO NOT BUNT HIM OVER TO THIRD!!! (Loud enough?)
2006-07-20 16:46:56
84.   JeremyM
Nice job Yanks, now get Damon home (I smell another sac bunt from Jeter).
2006-07-20 16:47:08
85.   Marcus
Bunt! Bunt! Bunt! Bunt!
2006-07-20 16:47:15
86.   Ron Burgundy
Atta boy Johnny.
2006-07-20 16:47:28
87.   randym77
Miggy is a base-stealing machine.
2006-07-20 16:47:54
88.   randym77
Shoulda bunted, Jeter.
2006-07-20 16:47:55
89.   JeremyM
Then again, now a bunt seems OK.
2006-07-20 16:48:44
90.   Benjamin Kabak
82 I think they've installed newer, "better" turf recently in Toronto, no?
2006-07-20 16:49:08
91.   Ron Burgundy
88 ROFLMFAO
2006-07-20 16:50:09
92.   Benjamin Kabak
Okay, bunting the runner from 2nd to 3rd with no outs isn't nearly as bad percentage-wise as bunting the runner from 1st to 2nd with no outs.

But it's Derek. He shouldn't ever bunt.

2006-07-20 16:50:47
93.   pistolpete
Cripes, what was Damon thinking?
2006-07-20 16:51:04
94.   Benjamin Kabak
Jason's hitting .185 on the month. Yuck.
2006-07-20 16:51:11
95.   Stormer Sports
I think Giambi needs to get out there at 1B and get in a groove with his swing. Sorry Andy.

The part of Jorge Posada on the basepaths will be played by Johhny Damon today. Enjoy the show.

2006-07-20 16:51:11
96.   Ron Burgundy
Oh, for fuck's sake!
2006-07-20 16:51:13
97.   rbj
Johnny D'ohmon!
2006-07-20 16:51:20
98.   randym77
Damon got a little over-eager. :-P
2006-07-20 16:52:37
99.   pistolpete
94 Don't I know it - he's on my fantasy team. Yikes.
2006-07-20 16:52:40
100.   seamus
I see Giambi's issue being more about emphasizing the homerun swing too much. I've just noticed that as his homers push up, his OBP has tracked down. Or at least it seems that way.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2006-07-20 16:56:55
101.   Stormer Sports
Our big bats are just missing their pitches lately. Giambi is missing the middle in low ball and Jete is missing the high outside fastball he normally launches, and Arod is getting no help from Blue. Some of his strike calls of late have been downright laughable. I thought we survived the Umpire walkout, but that series against Seattle clearly illustrated we have not.
2006-07-20 16:58:53
102.   Stormer Sports
Agaian, Moose is De DE DE DE DEALING!
2006-07-20 16:59:36
103.   Ron Burgundy
A-Rod needs to hit a HR here...
2006-07-20 17:00:27
104.   tommyl
A-Rod!
2006-07-20 17:00:27
105.   yankz
Um...they already have the lead. the double wasn't clutch.
2006-07-20 17:00:51
106.   Ron Burgundy
That'll do.
2006-07-20 17:00:57
107.   rbj
I'll take a double. No way Jorge's bunting here.
2006-07-20 17:01:58
108.   Stormer Sports
100

I think it has a lot to do wit the strike/ball calls behind the plate. Gimabi and Arod have been masacred by the Umps this year. ESPN, I hate to say it, had a good piece on Clemens and his adjustment to new strike zones. I think Giambi is also adjusting to the bad calls he is getting this year and swinging more aggresively.

2006-07-20 17:02:04
109.   yankz
OK Bernie, get closer to the cycle...
2006-07-20 17:02:30
110.   randym77
Please, Bernie, anything but a DP!
2006-07-20 17:03:58
111.   yankz
I forgot that Halladay is like Wang and can get DP balls on command.
2006-07-20 17:04:45
112.   randym77
The DP came from Andy instead. Sigh.

S'okay, boys. Just keep scoring a run an inning and we'll be fine.

2006-07-20 17:04:54
113.   Stormer Sports
110

That's Andy's job. What a hacker he is. Hack hack hack.

2006-07-20 17:06:15
114.   Stormer Sports
Is it too much to ask that Boston lose a game now and then?
2006-07-20 17:10:38
115.   Stormer Sports
Mooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooose!

Now Michael Kaye has taken to sexist remarks. Just stick with afformentioned and the other 3 or 4 multisyllabic words you actually know! What a fucking baffoon!

2006-07-20 17:14:17
116.   Eirias
115 Stormer, I missed it. What did he say?
2006-07-20 17:15:45
117.   yankz
Tie goes to the runner, punks.
2006-07-20 17:15:56
118.   unpopster
hey, check out Canada's very own Geddy Lee sitting right behind home plate. See, the Yanks and Dodgers aren't the only teams that get celebs sitting in their box seats!
2006-07-20 17:16:52
119.   tommyl
Playing for one run innings much Joe?
2006-07-20 17:17:10
120.   Stormer Sports
116

He went on a monologue about how wives call the shots. Vernon Wells will play "where the wife tells him too," "it's just one less headache in his life." A tad condescending and 1950's kitch. Even Kaat was like what the fuck are you saying Michael.

2006-07-20 17:17:22
121.   Max
114 They lost 4 of 5, before sweeping the Kansas City Royals in very unimpressive fashion (scoring 7 runs in 3 games at Fenway) and touching up John Rheinecker (who?) today. As long as we do our job, I'm not worried about the Sox.
2006-07-20 17:17:39
122.   yankz
Melky's ball repellent strikes again!
2006-07-20 17:17:45
123.   tommyl
Melky! I love this kid.
2006-07-20 17:18:25
124.   yankz
Hell yeah Miguel!
2006-07-20 17:18:40
125.   mickey1956
I've seen Phillip Hughes pitch a few times. Roy Halladay is the type of pitcher that Hughes should be when he makes the bigs. Halladays strike out #'s are down this year, but he is a groundball power guy. Hughes gets a few less groundballs, but strikes out more. I can't wait to see that guy in NY.
2006-07-20 17:19:05
126.   Ron Burgundy
Miggy just missed that.
2006-07-20 17:19:07
127.   Eirias
120 Ugh...
2006-07-20 17:19:07
128.   randym77
Miggy comes through again...
2006-07-20 17:19:13
129.   Stormer Sports
117

Please don't say that. You sound like Skip (someone please pay a cabby to run him down and kill him) Bayliss. There is no "tie," in baseball, either you are safe or out. Just like the bat passing home plate on a check swing doesn't have anything to do with whether it's a strike or not.

2006-07-20 17:19:31
130.   JeremyM
This just in from espn: "A-Rod's only gone 1 for 2 today with a double and a run scored, no errors---Yanks need to trade him." They forgot to add he has done NOTHING to help the situation in the Middle East...
2006-07-20 17:19:43
131.   tommyl
Yeah but Al has the comment of the night. When Kay asked him why he wasn't still pitching when Schilling is younger and still out there Al replies, "Because I was stinking."

Hilarious.

2006-07-20 17:19:48
132.   Eirias
122 Isn't he just borrowing Giambi's ball repellent?
2006-07-20 17:21:57
133.   Stormer Sports
131

That was funny. That is why I like O'Neill in the booth, he rags on Kaye consistently and I love it.

2006-07-20 17:22:35
134.   yankz
What are you talking about? When the runner gets there at the exact second the ball does, what else do you call it besides a tie? Excuse me, "The runner covered a distance of ninenty feet in exactly the same amount of time needed for the fielder's throw to reach the final destination. Hence, the aforementinoned runner is called safe." Better?
2006-07-20 17:23:19
135.   rbj
131 I'm warming to Leiter in the booth. Seems to have a good grasp on reality.

Man, football training camp already?

2006-07-20 17:23:46
136.   tommyl
Moose is just dealing.
2006-07-20 17:23:48
137.   yankz
Jeter below .340 :(
2006-07-20 17:24:28
138.   Stormer Sports
I can certainly see why Ozzie Smith chose not to allow Moose on the All-Star roster. Punk!
2006-07-20 17:25:05
139.   yankz
Ozzie Smith was probably too busy doing backflips.
2006-07-20 17:25:08
140.   Benjamin Kabak
Lyle Overbay looks drunk in his Gameday picture.
2006-07-20 17:25:26
141.   yankz
Holy sh*t that pitch should be illegal.
2006-07-20 17:25:45
142.   Stormer Sports
135

Dont buy the hype if you're a Giants fan. They blow now, and will blow in September, October, November, and December.

2006-07-20 17:26:10
143.   randym77
Speaking of older pitchers...the Middletown Times Herald-Record had an interesting article today about Ron Guidry and Randy Johnson:

http://tinyurl.com/nyeq5

2006-07-20 17:27:46
144.   Stormer Sports
139

Ozzie had a bad day avoiding homosexuals in Boystown, out near Wrigley. He really wanted a sandwich from my favorite deli out there, but became frustrated with all the boys and went with Rogers becuase he "looked tough last year with that reporter."

2006-07-20 17:29:00
145.   yankz
144 lol, I made the backflip comment because I knew you meant Ozzie Guillen, not Smith.
2006-07-20 17:29:11
146.   pistolpete
Hey, that Damon catch just reminded me of the last trip to SkyDome when Randy got rocked...
2006-07-20 17:30:08
147.   rbj
143 Do you live in Middletown? I used to, '72 to '87.
2006-07-20 17:31:57
148.   Stormer Sports
145

Hey, take it easy on Ozzie. Every racial slur and derogatory remark about gays means something different in Venezuela. Chavez just changed the lauguage. "He's a dictator, he can do that, got a problem bitches?" Ozzie said yesterday.

2006-07-20 17:32:05
149.   tommyl
Giambi might actually be in a bit of a slump...
2006-07-20 17:34:22
150.   Stormer Sports
149

I know. It's amazing. We are winning with little or no help from Arod and Giambi.

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2006-07-20 17:34:25
151.   yankz
Somehow, Moose has thrown more pitches than Halladay.
2006-07-20 17:34:56
152.   randym77
147 No, I'm across the river from Middletown.

I like the paper, though. They often have interviews with Yankee players and coaches that you don't see anywhere else.

2006-07-20 17:34:57
153.   Stormer Sports
Jorge!
2006-07-20 17:35:07
154.   Max
143 Thanks for the article, randym...that was a good one.
2006-07-20 17:35:48
155.   randym77
151 Swinging on the first pitch tends to do that.
2006-07-20 17:36:03
156.   RIYank
151 Because the Yanks are swinging away, not patient.
Jorge is looking good tonight.
2006-07-20 17:36:09
157.   Stormer Sports
152

Stop it, I live in LA now. You are making me long for my New Paltz and Newburgh drinking days!

2006-07-20 17:36:17
158.   Benjamin Kabak
151 Yanks are doing a lot of first-pitch swinging tonight. It's in the scouting report.
2006-07-20 17:37:33
159.   RIYank
So Dotel complained of 'soreness' or 'stiffness' in his triceps after his game, and is off to see the doctor. (I forget whether it was 'soreness' or 'stiffness'.)
2006-07-20 17:37:34
160.   mickey1956
158 Halladay might be the pitcher that works against.
2006-07-20 17:37:39
161.   rbj
Did I hear correctly, Mattingly telling Bernie to not try for doubles anymore, just take the single? If so, then Bernie needs to retire.
2006-07-20 17:38:09
162.   Stormer Sports
Now Michael Kaye bringing up Bartman and refusing to mention that the Cubs had another game to play after that, just like Buckner. Boston and the Cubs just blew ass, it didn't have anthing to do with Buckner or Bartman.
2006-07-20 17:38:21
163.   tommyl
150 A-Rod was 2-4 with a double and run scored yesterday and is 1-3 with a double and run scored today. He's contributing, maybe not in the spectatcular sense but he is.
2006-07-20 17:38:56
164.   tommyl
161 It was a joke, since Bernie is two behind Donnie on the all-time doubles list.
2006-07-20 17:39:42
165.   Stormer Sports
159

Fuck! I never really believed he'd pitch for the club this year anyway.

2006-07-20 17:39:48
166.   yankz
Yeah, for once that scouting report is paying off.

How sad that A-rod's 2000th won't come at home. Just like his 400th HR.

2006-07-20 17:39:51
167.   Benjamin Kabak
161 Actually, he told to Bernie to just start taking every pitch, especially with runners in scoring position.
2006-07-20 17:40:37
168.   yankz
Had that gone to center or right, it probably would've been a triple. I think.
2006-07-20 17:41:59
169.   Ron Burgundy
166 I think that's a good thing. It would suck to see the crowd boo him when he gets his 2000th.
2006-07-20 17:42:01
170.   Stormer Sports
163

Of course he is, I'm not an Arod hater. But those two aren't giving is what a 3/4 combo should be, that's all I'm saying, and Giambi has been downright horrific, at least in the past he would get on base.

2006-07-20 17:42:10
171.   pistolpete
Gee, wonder if that Jeter throw makes it into an ESPN highlight package with ballet music in the background... ;-P
2006-07-20 17:42:44
172.   Ron Burgundy
Oh shit, ESPN will be all over this...
2006-07-20 17:42:51
173.   RIYank
Hoooo boy.
2006-07-20 17:42:52
174.   pistolpete
Well, gotcher opening BBTN highlight right there...
2006-07-20 17:43:08
175.   yankz
Oh, brother.
2006-07-20 17:43:08
176.   randym77
That was one ugly throw, A-Rod.
2006-07-20 17:43:24
177.   Stormer Sports
Arod has become Chuck Knaublauch. Throw to the guy with the "New York" or "NY" on the uniform you moron!
2006-07-20 17:44:22
178.   Mattpat11
This has gotten ridiculous. Is that run earned?
2006-07-20 17:44:34
179.   Ron Burgundy
174 Me thinks that's another Chuck Knonblock discussion is in the works. And Steve Phillips will have his "The Yankees HAVE to trade Alex Rodriguez NOW" speech ready.
2006-07-20 17:44:54
180.   yankz
Dammit!
2006-07-20 17:45:23
181.   Ron Burgundy
And we're blowing the lead. Terrific.

(By the way, what did the ESPN play-by-play guys say about that A-Rod throw)

2006-07-20 17:45:39
182.   Stormer Sports
The best thing to come out of the Seattle series is a larger audience seeing how great a third baseman Beltre is. Chavez isn't even in his league and it's disgusting that Beltre gets no love for his defense. He's only been doing it for 5-6 years, why should anyone pay attention?
2006-07-20 17:46:08
183.   Benjamin Kabak
I see Chuck Knoblauch is at it again.
2006-07-20 17:46:19
184.   JeremyM
Anyone see this in the above cited article? This guy won't admit he's wrong:
Mets catcher Paul Lo Duca has had some time to reflect on the way he angrily flapped his lips at Alex Rodriguez a couple of weeks ago - but time apparently hasn't healed a thing. Lo Duca, a notorious hothead, is still steaming about A Rod's post-grand slam Look How Great I Am showboating in the last game of the recent Subway Series. "Listen, I know he was struggling and all that," Lo Duca said, "but what does that have to do with me and me protecting my pitcher? I mean, I don't mind him staring at the ball - Barry Bonds does that all the time - but when he gestured to his dugout, throwing out his arms, that really got to me. Especially with me having a young pitcher out there (Alay Soler) who's struggling himself." So, what about the next time A-Rod does the same thing against you guys? "I'm doing my job and taking care of it," Lo Duca said without getting more specific, or really needing to.
2006-07-20 17:46:24
185.   Max
Missed the last couple of innings. Could someone describe what degree of ugly A-Rod's throw was, and how so (airmailed, bounced, etc)?
2006-07-20 17:46:58
186.   yankz
Kick it up a notch, Moose. It's only the 6th.
2006-07-20 17:46:58
187.   Stormer Sports
Charge those runs to Arod. I can deal with a slump, especially given the way fans are treating him, but the throwing bungles are just ridiculous.
2006-07-20 17:48:09
188.   Cliff Corcoran
Crap.
2006-07-20 17:48:13
189.   yankz
This is a disaster, but a note of optimism: Melky has a laser.
2006-07-20 17:48:18
190.   Ron Burgundy
184 Lo Duca us a nut sack. Cheap shot at A-Rod there: "Listen, I know he was struggling and all that." What a piece of female genitalia.

And Moose can't get an out. There goes the lead and the ballgame. ESPN and Michael Kay couldn't be happier.

2006-07-20 17:48:59
191.   Benjamin Kabak
Terrible. Another rally sparked by an A-Rod error. Terrible.

But seriously, Moose, suck it up sometimes.

2006-07-20 17:49:03
192.   rbj
Gulp.
2006-07-20 17:49:11
193.   Mattpat11
181 I hope they say he's a fucking tool for flinging the ball and has probably cost us this game.
2006-07-20 17:49:39
194.   Zack
187 What? A-Rod has nothing to do with the fact that Moose has, from the start of this inning, been getting hit, hard. A-Rod's error has something to do with the inning, but all of a sudden Moose couldn't get anyone out this inning.
2006-07-20 17:49:45
195.   Cliff Corcoran
185 Not that ugly, it just tailed to Posada's left, just barely out of reach about shoulder high.
2006-07-20 17:49:46
196.   Dan-el
185 A-Rod slightly sidearmed, the throw moved away from Posada's glove as it neared home plate. pretty bad throw.
2006-07-20 17:49:47
197.   Stormer Sports
184

I hate to say that I agree with Lo Duca. I am one of those guys who thinks Manny Ramoriz should get hit every time he showboats, it has to be consistent on all sides. Dhowboat, get plunked! It's what seperates us from the fucking NFL.

Hmm, big inning for the Jay's. That's why you don't throw the ball away Arod. Understand?

2006-07-20 17:49:55
198.   randym77
185 He's throwing sidearmed. And it's going sideways.
2006-07-20 17:49:59
199.   Ron Burgundy
193 The throw wasn't that bad. If he just got that shit a bit to the left it's an out.
2006-07-20 17:50:04
200.   JeremyM
Well, I think we have another Chuck on our hands now. Hope I'm overreacting.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2006-07-20 17:50:12
201.   yankz
God this blows. I was so optimistic and pumped about beating Halladay.
2006-07-20 17:50:40
202.   RIYank
Three of those runs are earned, though. Alex cost them one only. To be fair, I mean.
2006-07-20 17:50:45
203.   Stormer Sports
195

He was only 60 feet away. No excuse for that.

2006-07-20 17:50:50
204.   Zack
193 Again, what are you talking about? How has A-ROd "cost us this game?" Way to keep level headed and objective
2006-07-20 17:50:51
205.   rbj
Now, that would have been the third out, but the score would be tied.
2006-07-20 17:51:19
206.   Ron Burgundy
I gotta go.
2006-07-20 17:51:33
207.   yankz
OK Andy and Melky, back-to-back jobs should do the trick.
2006-07-20 17:51:49
208.   RIYank
194 What you said.
2006-07-20 17:52:01
209.   Benjamin Kabak
So basically, the Yanks have one inning because the Jays will go to B.J. Ryan in the 8th. They need to win this game that badly.
2006-07-20 17:52:25
210.   Mattpat11
185 The ball just hit me.
2006-07-20 17:53:23
211.   Cliff Corcoran
193 He threw side arm to try to throw around the runner and the throw tailed. That's all.
2006-07-20 17:53:31
212.   Stormer Sports
I sure hope that they do! What a shame to waste two good pitching performances back to back.
2006-07-20 17:54:25
213.   Mattpat11
202 Its his fault the run scored and Johnson got to second.
2006-07-20 17:55:18
214.   yankz
I can see the back pages now: E-ROD THROWS AWAY GAME
2006-07-20 17:55:24
215.   Mattpat11
I wonder if the phantom toe injury caused him to throw the ball like a girl tonight too.
2006-07-20 17:55:54
216.   Max
Thanks, 195, 196, 198, 199. Sorry to see the return of 5th/6th inning meltdown Moose...and it always seems to be Catalanatto at the center of it.

The error didn't help, but when Moose falls, it sure happens fast and hard.

2006-07-20 17:57:33
217.   Stormer Sports
211

Look, I am not one of those Arod bashers, but Joe clearly wanted to give up the run in trade for the out. Bad throw, bad decision, that simple. Don't defend the bad plays, it gives less credibility to the legitimate defense of his regular play.

2006-07-20 17:57:52
218.   RIYank
213 Right, but with three hits to follow, Johnson would have scored anyway.
2006-07-20 17:58:24
219.   BayRidger
211. A little explanation doesn't make it any less maddening!
2006-07-20 17:58:46
220.   Mattpat11
211 Please. He's been throwing like that for a while now. Its why he threw it away three times Monday. It had nothing to do with the runner.
2006-07-20 17:58:55
221.   singledd
217 A good throw and he's out easily. A bad throw to first has the same effect.
2006-07-20 17:59:52
222.   RIYank
217 I thought that was Jorge's call (because all the runners and the ball are in front of him). He indicated 'throw home'.
2006-07-20 18:00:05
223.   singledd
Notice Jetes has pulled Andy off first 3 times in the last 2 games? ARoditis must be catching.
2006-07-20 18:00:10
224.   Mattpat11
218 A-Rod doesn't throw the game away there, Mussina pitches the next three batters differently because he doesn't have a runner on second to worry about and still has a three run lead.
2006-07-20 18:00:39
225.   yankz
If only A-Rod hits a 3-R homer in the 8th
2006-07-20 18:01:08
226.   Benjamin Kabak
Gameday says 4 ER for Moose. That cannot be right. 3ER in my book.
2006-07-20 18:01:46
227.   RIYank
224 Maybe. But Moose gave up the four hits that inning, not A-Rod.
2006-07-20 18:02:46
228.   singledd
I really want the Yanks to win... but more gor ARod because if we lose, the media will have a field day.

I never thought I'd feel sorry for a tall, handsome athlete worth 1/4 of a billion... but I do.

2006-07-20 18:03:39
229.   Mattpat11
222 Unfortuantely A-Rod threw it to my home.
2006-07-20 18:04:19
230.   randym77
226 Kay was going on and on about that. He doesn't understand how it could be scored that way, but it was.
2006-07-20 18:04:57
231.   Stormer Sports
228

Tell me about it! The media has been unfair to him. Now, when it's warranted, it looks like piling on.

2006-07-20 18:05:25
232.   BayRidger
225. No one who follows the Yanks regularly, even if they like A Rod, really expects that to happen.
2006-07-20 18:06:47
233.   Ron Burgundy
Relax people, A-Rod will hit a Grand Slam in the 8th inning.
2006-07-20 18:07:08
234.   yankz
232 Who said anything about expecting? I'm just hoping.
2006-07-20 18:08:21
235.   Max
Nice job in the 7th, Moose. Just wish you had been able to pitch like that after the error.
2006-07-20 18:08:31
236.   Stormer Sports
I am just hoping we make good decisions, that's all.
2006-07-20 18:08:52
237.   yankz
235 More "pitching from the stretch" problems for Yankee hurlers?
2006-07-20 18:08:59
238.   RIYank
Well, we could use a couple of baserunners, anyway, that's for sure.
Let's go JD, earn the paycheck!
2006-07-20 18:10:22
239.   RIYank
Ooooo-kay.
DJ, then.
2006-07-20 18:10:32
240.   Stormer Sports
When was the Yankees last HR, Melky?
2006-07-20 18:11:01
241.   yankz
You mean two games ago? Yeah, panic time.
2006-07-20 18:11:06
242.   RIYank
JG?
2006-07-20 18:12:23
243.   randym77
Well, slump or no, the Jays fear the Giambino.
2006-07-20 18:12:37
244.   Mattpat11
A-Rod's going to make up for this tonight. He has to. Giambi walk, A-Rod homer.
2006-07-20 18:13:10
245.   Ron Burgundy
Oh boy. 2.5 back we go. ESPN just collectively orgasmed what with the A-Rod error and us losing.
2006-07-20 18:13:34
246.   Benjamin Kabak
Games like this leave a bad taste in my mouth.

I cannot tell you how sick I am of this A-Rod/fans/media soap operar. It's annoying as hell.

2006-07-20 18:13:45
247.   RIYank
Does Ryan have a good history against Giambi, or is it just that he's great against lefties?
2006-07-20 18:13:54
248.   Stormer Sports
It's not panic time. In a close race you have to win the games you should win. Yesterday and today's games are perfect examples of games you should win but don't, and that is usually the difference in September.
2006-07-20 18:14:03
249.   Ron Burgundy
244 Yeah, we keep wishing for that but it just refuses to happen...
2006-07-20 18:15:44
250.   RIYank
Ha.
Okay, Alex, showtime!
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2006-07-20 18:16:00
251.   randym77
247 Just lefty-lefty matching, I think.

Plus, Ryan is good. It's like sending Mo in for us.

And Giambi goes the other way...

2006-07-20 18:16:54
252.   monkeypants
PR with two outs and man on first? I guess Torre figures Giambi's spot won't come up again.
2006-07-20 18:17:16
253.   Ron Burgundy
A-Rod Up...
2006-07-20 18:17:20
254.   Stormer Sports
252

He's right.

2006-07-20 18:18:06
255.   RIYank
Clutch walk.
(Seriously.)
2006-07-20 18:18:16
256.   monkeypants
I'm starting to sense that walk-the=bases-loaded-with-two-outs-score-no-runs-bottom-of-the-order-up-in-the-ninth-feeling.
2006-07-20 18:18:55
257.   Ron Burgundy
That's a walk, SO not clutch.
2006-07-20 18:19:09
258.   Stormer Sports
Jorge!
2006-07-20 18:19:11
259.   randym77
Yeah, Jorgie!
2006-07-20 18:19:13
260.   rbj
Yes, Jorge!
2006-07-20 18:19:18
261.   Mattpat11
A-Rod needs to kiss Posada.
2006-07-20 18:19:19
262.   BklynBmr
Yeah, Jorgie!!!
2006-07-20 18:19:34
263.   monkeypants
Eat my words (both 252 and 256).
2006-07-20 18:19:37
264.   Ron Burgundy
256 I hate that sensation. It makes me wonna hurl.
2006-07-20 18:19:40
265.   Benjamin Kabak
Hip-hip!
2006-07-20 18:19:54
266.   RIYank
Joe is a genius.
2006-07-20 18:20:08
267.   Stormer Sports
Now Joe looks like a genius.
2006-07-20 18:20:14
268.   randym77
And Joe proves brilliant for putting in a pinch runner...
2006-07-20 18:20:32
269.   Ron Burgundy
Hi-oh!
2006-07-20 18:21:11
270.   rbj
And sadly, no one to ph for Bernie.
2006-07-20 18:21:25
271.   Benjamin Kabak
Ugh. Bernie. Come on.
2006-07-20 18:21:53
272.   Ron Burgundy
Damn It Bernie, I though you killed lefties? whatever, at least we tied it. NoWorth better not blow this.
2006-07-20 18:23:28
273.   Stormer Sports
261

Everyone needs to kiss Posada. He is having a career year behind the plate and helping us with his bat with a higher BA w/RISP than most everyone on the team. Where are all you freaks who wanted us to sign a top-tier catcher last year because Jorge was "dropping off?" Jorge will stop being one of the best catchers in the game when he is damn good and ready! As far as I'm concerned, only Pudge has been better over the last 10 years.

2006-07-20 18:24:02
274.   RIYank
Uh oh, the genius has just brought in Scott Proctor.
But he's awesome since the break, right?
2006-07-20 18:24:02
275.   Ron Burgundy
Proctor...
2006-07-20 18:24:34
276.   monkeypants
I didn't catch the name of the new Yanks pitcher--who did Torre bring in? (that's sarcasm)
2006-07-20 18:25:04
277.   singledd
Bottom of our order in the 9th. We need to pitch 3 scoreless innings to have a chance. No Giambi either. No bench either.
2006-07-20 18:25:05
278.   Benjamin Kabak
"Defensive switch from designated hitter to designated hitter for Bubba Crosby."

Thanks, Gameday.

2006-07-20 18:25:28
279.   Ron Burgundy
Scottie partying like it's May.
2006-07-20 18:25:30
280.   RIYank
273 Yeah, no kidding. Jorgie could easily be the MVP -- if you look at his value over replacement.
2006-07-20 18:25:47
281.   Chofo
There goes that good-looking below-1-ERA for BJ
2006-07-20 18:25:48
282.   Stormer Sports
What's Joe gonna do? They sent down Smith, and Farnswirth is no better thank Jorge Julio.
2006-07-20 18:26:33
283.   RIYank
277 You forget: the bottom of our order is the clutch part. (Semi-kidding.)
2006-07-20 18:27:11
284.   Ron Burgundy
283 That's where Melky resides.
2006-07-20 18:28:38
285.   Ron Burgundy
Ah crap...
2006-07-20 18:28:41
286.   Stormer Sports
Someone should tell Al Lieter that it's never a good idea to pull your top-line starter who hasn't showed any evidence of tiring for anyone in the bullpen, on any team, in any league, unless his name is Gossage, Rivera, Gagne, or Eckersly.
2006-07-20 18:28:47
287.   RIYank
Good job, Scotty.
2006-07-20 18:29:36
288.   rbj
Well Proctor does his job.
Solo shot by Melky.
1,2,3 ninth for Mo's 402nd save.
2006-07-20 18:29:42
289.   monkeypants
282 It's all part of the systemic problem. He's overused Proctor, so now when he needs to use him there is a good chance he's fried. Moreover, Smith was sent down essentially to make room for Chacon (who will see just about no time out of the BP). So, goofy Yankee personnel decisions and Torre's usage patterns yield sarcastic responses to yet another appearance by Proctor.
2006-07-20 18:30:47
290.   Cliff Corcoran
Kay is harping on Gibbons' bullpen move and while I see his point, he's overselling Halladay in the process. Just like Stormer oversold Jorge a bit in 273 (it's not a career year, in fact he's hitting roughly his career averages, which would make it a typical year, though at 34 going on 35 that's exceptional, and there was this guy named Piazza who was pretty good in the last decade).
2006-07-20 18:31:34
291.   randym77
273 Uh...I leave that to Laura.

But Jorgie has been great. He's one of my favorites. I'm not one of the "freaks." I was defending him here last year. He's always been streaky, and now that he's north of 30, every slump is seen as the beginning of a terminal decline. But he started catching late. And perhaps because he's been so hesitant to block the plate, he hasn't been as beat up as many other catchers. I'd like to see the Yanks get a young catcher for him to mentor and share time with, but I think he's still got a few good years in him.

2006-07-20 18:32:43
292.   Cliff Corcoran
289 The Yankees do need to do something with Chacon other than have him rot in the pen. Trade him, DL him with a phantom injury, or wait until Ponson implodes and put him back in the rotation, but with some useful relievers in the minors they need to make better use of that roster spot.
2006-07-20 18:33:02
293.   Mattpat11
Nice hustle there Andy. Did you think maybe you made contact with that swing?
2006-07-20 18:34:02
294.   Stormer Sports
289

I'll tell ya, if Chacon is the long man, what the hell is that clown from Columbus doing in the pen now that we have Ponson? Smith is as good as anyone out there but Rivera!!!!! Use your fucking heads Torre and Cash! I so miss the days when there were 4 starters and a long man who would compete for that 4th spot. It worked better and made room for another offensive player on the bench, you know, like a baseball team. In 10 years will most teams be carrying 15 pitchers, 10 of which blow ass? Christ!

2006-07-20 18:34:10
295.   rilkefan
293 - way to add to the conversation.
2006-07-20 18:35:08
296.   Stormer Sports
290 Cliff, "behind the plate" I meant.
2006-07-20 18:35:21
297.   RIYank
291 Well, they have one now! Maybe a little younger than you meant.
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060704&content_id=1540078&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy
2006-07-20 18:36:06
298.   randym77
297 TinyURL is your friend.
2006-07-20 18:36:10
299.   yankz
Remember another game where Melky walked against a stud lefty closer in the 9th?
2006-07-20 18:36:16
300.   rbj
How many HRs does Cairo have this year? I would like to say he's due, but that would be a bit of a stretch.
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2006-07-20 18:36:34
301.   Benjamin Kabak
how's about Aaron Guile ph's here and then Green goes to 2B?
2006-07-20 18:37:12
302.   Benjamin Kabak
297 You broke the banter.
2006-07-20 18:37:39
303.   Stormer Sports
290

Halladay showed no eveidence he was tiring. It was a bad decision going to Ryan. Like I said, if you aren't Rivera or Gagne, the reason you are in the pen is because you aren't good enough to start or close games, usually, and Ryan isn't Gossage or Eck.

2006-07-20 18:39:00
304.   yankz
Just hide all comments before 301, it fixes the Banter.
2006-07-20 18:39:25
305.   Benjamin Kabak
303 Go look at B.J.'s numbers. 22 fewer hits than IP? 57:10 K:BB in 46 innings? That's pretty damn good. And his ERA was 0.96.
2006-07-20 18:39:39
306.   Stormer Sports
They are Balks Al! They are!
2006-07-20 18:39:57
307.   yankz
Until you refresh, of course.
2006-07-20 18:40:11
308.   RIYank
Oh, sorry.
http://tinyurl.com/etvut
2006-07-20 18:41:02
309.   Stormer Sports
Fuck you Larry Young!
2006-07-20 18:41:21
310.   Mattpat11
295 He took that awful swing, the ball got by Molina and he just stood there until Molina picked the ball back up.
2006-07-20 18:41:26
311.   Ron Burgundy
Damn you Cairo!
2006-07-20 18:42:04
312.   randym77
307 Exactly. Until we post enough messages that the previous section stops showing.
2006-07-20 18:42:05
313.   Cliff Corcoran
30+ pitches by Ryan tonight bodes well for the remainder of the series.
2006-07-20 18:42:49
314.   yankz
How many of us just yelled "Fuck!"
2006-07-20 18:42:51
315.   Stormer Sports
Cairo got a bad call from the 1B Ump, not his fault there.
2006-07-20 18:43:18
316.   rbj
Clutch strike out by Damon. Grr.
2006-07-20 18:43:25
317.   randym77
Cairo put up a better fight than Damon. He took a lot of pitches out of Ryan's arm. A 12 pitch AB.
2006-07-20 18:43:35
318.   RIYank
Geez, does Melky have to do everything himself?

Well, the good news is that Ryan's thrown 36 pitches. If the Jays don't score, it's Jeter, Giambi, A-Rod, Jorge against a lesser Toronto pitcher.

2006-07-20 18:44:13
319.   JeremyM
Yeah, I don't see that Cairo offered at that. Of course espn announcers acted like it was a no doubter.
2006-07-20 18:44:15
320.   Stormer Sports
Giambi?
2006-07-20 18:44:27
321.   Cliff Corcoran
294 Chacon has never pitched well out of the pen. Wilson has looked good in his two relief outings and was having a strong season in Columbus. Right now I'd rather have Wilson than Chacon in the pen. Meanwhile, I like Matt Smith, but you're really blowing him out of proportion. He's good, but he's not a dominating set-up man, just a useful lefty who can get righties and lefties out.
2006-07-20 18:44:28
322.   randym77
318 Not Giambi.
2006-07-20 18:45:16
323.   Cliff Corcoran
Proctor will blow this game if Joe leave him in there long enough. Clearly that's Torre's plan.
2006-07-20 18:45:23
324.   Stormer Sports
No Farns! No Farns! No Farns! No Farns!
2006-07-20 18:45:52
325.   RIYank
Oh, good point. Bubba.
2006-07-20 18:46:00
326.   yankz
Joe is really pressing his luck with Scotty P here.
2006-07-20 18:46:31
327.   RIYank
Proctor's thrown 15 pitches, 14 of them strikes.
2006-07-20 18:47:09
328.   Stormer Sports
321 Well I do think Smith is pretty damn good. However, I guess what I am saying is the same thing you are. We should have Wilson or Chacon out there, with Smith, we shouldn't have both Chacon and Smith out there.
2006-07-20 18:47:15
329.   rbj
319 Fortunately I have the YES feed, so I don't have to listen to the Boston Barmaids. Are they in typical bad form tonight?
2006-07-20 18:47:25
330.   Cliff Corcoran
324 I'm fine with getting an inning out of Farns, preferably the one after this one. Preferably the one immediatley following Moose. Have we forgoten Jeff Weaver Syndrome? The right way to do it is to burn your best to give your bats a chance first, that's Farns and Mo, then Villone.
2006-07-20 18:47:28
331.   Stormer Sports
Chacon and WILSON I mean....
2006-07-20 18:47:41
332.   singledd
308 The kid is 16. We won't see him for 5 years... so we still need a catcher for 2009,10 and 11.
2006-07-20 18:47:53
333.   RIYank
The Doctor is operating. Not easy to get the side in six pitches when one of the outs is a strikeout.
2006-07-20 18:47:53
334.   monkeypants
Man, I must be a pessimist--I thought the game was over off Zaun's bat right there.
2006-07-20 18:48:15
335.   Ron Burgundy
Scottie was ON tonight.
2006-07-20 18:48:44
336.   Stormer Sports
Cliff,

I have to disagree there. Farns is better than no one out there in close games.

2006-07-20 18:48:58
337.   randym77
Maybe Scotty really was just overworked.
2006-07-20 18:49:22
338.   RIYank
332 Agreed. But maybe George and Cash can overspend for someone decent for a few years.
2006-07-20 18:51:23
339.   Stormer Sports
332

I am of the mindset that you NEVER let a player go unless you have equal or better talent coming in, no matter what the cost. That is how you sustain a good team. We need to lock up Posada for a few more years and hope something comes down the pike, whether from the minors or via a trade or free agency.

2006-07-20 18:51:59
340.   RIYank
Jorge's 4 for 8 off Speier. Need a walk and a steal...
2006-07-20 18:52:21
341.   randym77
Is he going to leave Bubba in?
2006-07-20 18:52:53
342.   Max
One heck of a collar the Cap is wearing tonight.
2006-07-20 18:53:06
343.   RIYank
geez, lots of Bombers striking out. What's up with that? Last five outs.
2006-07-20 18:53:14
344.   Mattpat11
Its Ralph Malph in for Bubba
2006-07-20 18:53:25
345.   rsmith51
I feel a big ARod moment coming...
2006-07-20 18:53:36
346.   rbj
Guiel couldn't have PH for Bernie?
2006-07-20 18:53:44
347.   randym77
C'mon, Aaron. Maybe if you get a hit, Joe will actually let you start tomorrow.
2006-07-20 18:54:04
348.   Mattpat11
341 Thank Christ, no.
2006-07-20 18:54:17
349.   RIYank
Guiel has very good numbers against Speier. Uh, but probably not in 0-2 counts.
2006-07-20 18:54:52
350.   Mattpat11
346 As do I.
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2006-07-20 18:55:05
351.   RIYank
Yuck.
That's six outs in a row that have been strike-outs.
2006-07-20 18:55:23
352.   Stormer Sports
For the love of God Arod, here is your moment. Please please with sugar on top.
2006-07-20 18:56:11
353.   RIYank
Speier's scared of Alex.
2006-07-20 18:56:13
354.   Mattpat11
here it comes
2006-07-20 18:56:22
355.   rbj
C'mon Spiers, don't be a coward, pitch to Alex.
2006-07-20 18:57:52
356.   rsmith51
This pitch will not be a strike.
2006-07-20 18:58:08
357.   Stormer Sports
Ugh!
2006-07-20 18:58:39
358.   RIYank
Damn. Behind 3-0 Speier throws four good pitches.
2006-07-20 18:58:45
359.   Mattpat11
nd people wonder why I don't get optimistic. Optimism just sets you up for a bigger fall.
2006-07-20 18:59:06
360.   rbj
Nerts.
2006-07-20 18:59:51
361.   Stormer Sports
Every Yankee hitter is just missing pitches these days. WTF?
2006-07-20 19:00:59
362.   rbj
So when did you sit Torre down and explain how to use your closer on the road, Cliff?
2006-07-20 19:01:26
363.   Ron Burgundy
Yeah, uhm A-Rod is on pace to have the 2nd fewest HRs in his career here. How?
2006-07-20 19:01:38
364.   singledd
Mo In. Means we gotta score next inning or we're probably done.
2006-07-20 19:01:39
365.   Chofo
And Joe goes with Mo.
2006-07-20 19:02:26
366.   SF Yanks
Did anyone's heart sink on that throw? Mine did.
2006-07-20 19:04:21
367.   RIYank
Interesting.
I wonder if someone really did convince Torre to use Mo in these situations. Or maybe he just felt it was time for Mo to get some work in.
2006-07-20 19:04:31
368.   randym77
366 I have to admit, I'm holding my breath every time A-Rod throws the ball.
2006-07-20 19:04:33
369.   rsmith51
ARod seems to swing and miss a lot. Did he do that before?
2006-07-20 19:04:49
370.   singledd
363 I really think ARod is in a mini-breakdown. This stuff does effect him, and he is showing it. It might be worth telling him to stay away from the stadium for 2 days. No baseball, no practice, no newspaper reading, no nothing. Drink beera nd watch old B&W flicks. He needs to clear his head in a big way.
2006-07-20 19:05:27
371.   rsmith51
368 I am not worried about ARod at all. He is an excellent player who will right himself.
2006-07-20 19:05:44
372.   RIYank
Ten pitches. Does he pitch the eleventh, too? I say Yes.
2006-07-20 19:05:47
373.   Chofo
Is Bernie still playing RF with both Bubba and Guiel DH-ing, or Gameday got it wrong? Please tell me is Gameday and not Joe making the terrible mistake
2006-07-20 19:06:22
374.   Max
The pitchers are doing their job...only one bad inning. The hitters have got to find a way to do theirs.
2006-07-20 19:06:53
375.   rbj
369 Steve Lombardi at waswatching has a nice chart showing that Alex's K rate is up this year:
http://tinyurl.com/o6eur
2006-07-20 19:10:19
376.   pistolpete
Alright, the idiot with the air horn has to stop...
2006-07-20 19:11:05
377.   randym77
373 Joe usually doesn't pull Bernie until we have a lead to protect.
2006-07-20 19:12:17
378.   RIYank
Damn it.
Now we'll need Mo and Farns.
2006-07-20 19:12:20
379.   Mattpat11
Nice of us to make the terrible pitcher feel good about himself.
2006-07-20 19:12:21
380.   Stormer Sports
Our offense can't get out of its own way! It's downright Pittsburgh-like.
2006-07-20 19:12:43
381.   Stormer Sports
Our offense can't get out of its own way! It's downright Pittsburgh-like.
2006-07-20 19:14:24
382.   yankz
363 That terrifies me. If the media and fans really do affect his game, then they're ruining the man who could've possibly gone down in history as the best hitter ever.
2006-07-20 19:14:54
383.   Ron Burgundy
We really have to start scoring on these crappy relievers.
2006-07-20 19:16:13
384.   RIYank
Jorge!
And good play by Miggy.
2006-07-20 19:16:23
385.   Stormer Sports
Jorge!

See above posts re: Posada!

2006-07-20 19:16:46
386.   randym77
Crap.
2006-07-20 19:16:48
387.   JeremyM
Man it hurts when Mo loses.
2006-07-20 19:16:55
388.   Ron Burgundy
Ha-Ha at Frankie!
2006-07-20 19:16:55
389.   RIYank
Oh, geez. Mo's first HR of the season.
Well, night folks.
2006-07-20 19:17:13
390.   Benjamin Kabak
Shit.
2006-07-20 19:17:31
391.   pistolpete
JUST when I was feeling good about our chances after the Posada throw.

Why did I NOT wanna say at the top of the inning that Rivera was due for one of those...?

2006-07-20 19:17:42
392.   rbj
Damn!
2006-07-20 19:17:51
393.   Ron Burgundy
Damn It.
2006-07-20 19:18:03
394.   Mattpat11
well there you go

should have won 3-0, but shit happens

2006-07-20 19:18:12
395.   Stormer Sports
Fuck! Fuck! Blame the offense for this one. We flat out stink on offense. Good pitching after the break has obscured the fact that we are a horrific offensive team.
2006-07-20 19:18:40
396.   Max
Well, here's where you find out what the team is made of...sounds hokey, but they've got to recover from losses like these. Just too little margin for error given the guys who are out.
2006-07-20 19:18:53
397.   pistolpete
Annoying to think we could have put the Jays 6.5 back tonight. More annoying than losing ground ourselves...
2006-07-20 19:19:21
398.   Simone
What a crappy ending. When last did Mo give up a homerun like this.
2006-07-20 19:19:26
399.   Benjamin Kabak
Gotta win these games. Gotta win these games.
2006-07-20 19:19:30
400.   pistolpete
395 Guess you know who we might deal for now.

A bat.

Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2006-07-20 19:22:10
401.   Stormer Sports
399

Exactly. If we miss the playoffs it will be because of games like the ones we played yesterday and tonight, that simple. Boston doesn't blow these games, they beat up on weak teams and the NL, that is why they are a better team and lead in the stadings, it's not rocket science.

2006-07-20 19:23:10
402.   Stormer Sports
We don't need a new bat as badly as we need Arod and Giambi to start hitting the fucking ball!
2006-07-20 19:23:27
403.   Cliff Corcoran
382 Best hitter ever? That's far from true. Rodriguez has never even been the best active hitter in baseball, let alone one of the best ever. He's an inner circle Hall of Famer, but don't blow his ability out of proportion. He's Hank Aaron at SS/3B. I think that's enough. He doesn't have to be Babe Ruth/Ted Williams as well.
2006-07-20 19:26:37
404.   RIYank
Hm, Boston is crappy in extra innings this year, actually.
Still, no reason for New York to be.
2006-07-20 19:27:02
405.   Stormer Sports
403

Although I wouldn't include Ted Williams with Babe Ruth there. If Arod isn't one the best ever, then Ted Williams shouldn't be metioned in the same breath with Babe Ruth.

2006-07-20 19:27:23
406.   Cliff Corcoran
404 I think with this loss they Yanks are 6-2 in extras.
2006-07-20 19:28:40
407.   RIYank
Cliff, we're not in the mood for perspective right now. ;)
2006-07-20 19:30:12
408.   Stormer Sports
Dear Hideki,

Get well. Get plenty of rest and eat right!

Yours truly,
Ben

2006-07-20 19:31:05
409.   yankeemonkey
Matsui should be cleared to start taking BP pretty soon. Lighten up and get off the ledges, people...
2006-07-20 19:31:18
410.   randym77
402 I'm inclined to agree. Jeter didn't do so great tonight, either.

Cairo, OTOH, earned his paycheck tonight.

Eh, mark it down to just one of those nights. Mo doesn't give up walkoff homers very often. Our offense is good enough, and it'll get better when Hideki gets back.

TOTAL RUNS SCORED

Yankees 516
Red Sox 514

2006-07-20 19:31:45
411.   Cliff Corcoran
405 Read this, Stormer:

http://tinyurl.com/kvwuk

Then read this:

http://bronxbanter.baseballtoaster.com/archives/12076.html

Then you'll have some idea of where Williams and Rodriguez rank all-time.

2006-07-20 19:32:29
412.   justsayin
boston beat'n up on Toronto? better check your facts - toronto owns the sox this year including late inning and extra inning wins
2006-07-20 19:32:59
413.   Paul in Boston
Amazing how a baseball game can come apart so quickly. Watching the first 5 innings, you never thought Toronto could put up a 4 run inning against Mussina.

Wow, that was painful.

2006-07-20 19:33:08
414.   Cliff Corcoran
Is it me or does Mo often have bad outings in the same games in which the opposing closers have bad outings? Ryan gives up the tie, Mo gives up the game winner? What're the odds?
2006-07-20 19:35:07
415.   yankeemonkey
What sucks is that a) Mo had to take the loss and b) all the papers/ESPN will want to talk about is A-Rod's error, nevermind Jeter's 0-5(?) or that Moose kept giving up hits after the error. There's no justice...
2006-07-20 19:37:33
416.   Max
410 Exactly. Jeter may be having an MVP type season, but his absence today was glaring.
2006-07-20 19:41:44
417.   yankz
I remember reading last year that A-rod was ahead of the all time HR leader when he turned 30. Same for RBI, hits, and runs leaders.
2006-07-20 19:41:45
418.   randym77
Kay and Leiter think A-Rod might be injured.
2006-07-20 19:43:22
419.   yankz
That (417) was confusing, but I think you guys get it. Right?
2006-07-20 19:43:44
420.   NBarnes
Rodriguez has never even been the best active hitter in baseball, let alone one of the best ever.

Uh, that's because Rodriguez's extire career has overlapped (to a suprisingly perfect degree) Barry Bonds' emergence as not just the best hitter in baseball, and not just the best hitter of the last 30 years, but the 2nd best hitter to ever pick up a baseball bat (and debatably simply the best ever). There's a very strong case to be made that A-Rod is the starting shortstop on the All-Time Greats Team.

2006-07-20 19:44:06
421.   yankeemonkey
418: More than the toe/groin issue?
2006-07-20 19:45:37
422.   Max
414 Could be (I remember a couple of games against the Angels when both Percival and F-Rod along with Mo managed to give up runs), but more recently, it seems like Mo has been treading water since returning from the break. I just hope this isn't the start of one of his significant mini-slumps.
2006-07-20 19:46:08
423.   randym77
421 They think his shoulder might be hurt, which is why his throws are so bad.

They say the Yankees won't admit it if they don't have to, in order to keep other teams from taking advantage.

2006-07-20 19:47:20
424.   yankeemonkey
Shouldn't they send him for a discreet MRI then? If he's playing hurt, he's not just hurting the team, he could damage the shoulder even worse.
2006-07-20 19:48:57
425.   JeremyM
424 Maybe they did send him for one, and it was so discrete we never heard about it:)
2006-07-20 19:50:45
426.   randym77
424 Maybe they have.

I don't know if he's really hurt or not. They think he is because they've supposedly seen him sitting in the dugout holding his shoulder as if it hurt. And Leiter said the way his shoulder is dropping and the ball is sailing is typical of what happens when you throw with a sore shoulder. (I guess he'd know.)

But they also said it could just be mental.

2006-07-20 19:58:42
427.   Max
I think it's realistic to expect we may fall back another game from first by the end of this weekend. The key, though, is to stay within one to four games by mid-August.

Even though the Red Sox are hurting as well, they have a very favorable schedule...outside of Oakland, it doesn't really get tough until their five games against us in mid-August, and even those games are all at Fenway.

2006-07-20 20:06:18
428.   Cliff Corcoran
420 Read the second link in 411. Rodriguez is behind Wagner, and if you don't like that answer Arkie Vaughan on the all-time SS depth chart and Bonds isn't the only reason he hasn't been the best hitter in the game during his career. Pujols, Giambi, Thome, Manny, Sosa . . . there have been several hitters who were clearly better than him during different parts of his career.
2006-07-20 20:14:44
429.   yankeemonkey
I wonder if the best thing for all concerned would be for A-Rod to go on a 15-day DL? It would give people time to chill (and also to realize how important he is to the team), and it would give Alex time to fix what's ailing him mentally and physically. But the team probably won't be able to tread water that long....
2006-07-20 20:22:31
430.   yankeemonkey
Did anyone catch the post-game show? Did they interview Alex?
2006-07-20 20:24:24
431.   Max
429 Nothing personal, but that's crazy. A-Rod is a big boy, and he's just got to suck it up, unless he really is badly hurt. If Damon can play with a broken toe, and Jeter lies about his injuries in order to get on the field ASAP, I'm sure Alex can tough it out as well.

Lost in the midst of these bitter losses is the fact that our pitching has been really outstanding over the last couple of weeks. A couple of Moose one inning hiccups, a brief case of Ponson nerves, a Kris Wilson meltdown, and the usual short Jaret outing...but otherwise, really really good. In fact, Mo may be the biggest disappointment...but even with his scuffling, he's still saved our bacon a couple of times and set a personal milestone.

But all this anemic offense is putting so much pressure on the pitching, which is why the memory of these lapses lingers...

2006-07-20 20:30:45
432.   yankeemonkey
431: Sorry, I guess it didn't come out the way I meant. What I wanted to say is that if A-Rod is hurt to the point where he can't throw, playing him is hurting the team. When Jeter had a busted thumb he couldn't throw, so he sat. Maybe not DL A-Rod, but sit him for a few and let him heal a little bit. Damon has missed a game here and there, and probably would've missed more if his injuries were hampering his ability to play.
2006-07-20 21:09:28
433.   Max
Wow, I just caught wind of Mussina's comments about A-Rod in the post-game...incredibly unprofessional. This is probably going to be all over the papers tomorrow.
2006-07-20 21:16:14
434.   yankeemonkey
Ya, guys over at nyyfans have been all over it...Even though I can see where he was coming from, still you don't do that to a teammate. Uuuuugly.
2006-07-20 22:03:56
435.   NBarnes
428: Without wanting to get into it too deeply, I based my preference for Rodrigeuz over Wagner on Rodriguez's superior value-over-replacement peak three years. A-Rod's 2001, 2002, and 2003 are debatably better than Wagner's 1907, 1908, and 1909. The best estimates we can make of fielding so far back in time suggest that Rodriguez gave up little on Wagner in terms of defensive prowess during that period, as well. A lot of this, of course, depends on how a given judge makes their selection to the All-Time Greats Team; I place a lot of value on peak value, my theory being that you are not placing an ur-Honus Wagner or ur-Alex Rodriguez on the team, one that somehow sums up who the player was, but rather are placing a REAL (era-adjusted, otherwise it's just dumb) player on the team at some point in their career. And peak Alex Rodriguez is, so far as I can tell, fully competative with peak Honus Wagner, while retaining career value.
2006-07-20 23:12:08
436.   Zack
The Times article leads with the headline: "Loss falls to Rivera, Blame goes to Rodriguez. This is getting out of hand. If it was DJ who made that same error, there wouldn't be a peep about it. Nevermind the fact that DJ is also grossly overpaid too, this A-Rod stuff is relly making me not enjoy a) watching the games b) reading sports coverage c) watching A-Rod play, which I used to really enjoy. Every game, announcer, and AB centers around what he will do that exact moment and how that will either prove or dissprove one side of the argument's case.
2006-07-21 02:45:39
437.   singledd
Not much good can be said after losing 2:
News on Matsui is good.
News on Cano is OK.
News on Dotel is bad.
Somehow, we are just 2.5 games behind the WS for the WC. Minn is VERY hot and on our heals at 4 games out.
2006-07-21 04:07:08
438.   randym77
IMO, A-Rod was great in his post-game interview. He admitted he was struggling, without going over the top about it. And Kim Jones asked him about the trade rumors, and he said there's no way he wants to leave NY.

Moose was surprisingly candid. Perhaps they caught him off guard. Apparently, he's something of a press favorite these days:

http://tinyurl.com/zdk7r

LoHud says Posada was equivocal, and Jeter didn't stick around to answer questions. Even Torre's defense was half-hearted. Only Rivera stood by A-Rod.

2006-07-21 05:50:36
439.   Dan M
The Times article states that Posada "had no chance" at catching A-Rod's throw. I couldn't disagree more. The throw, while terrible, was easily catchable if Posada realizes that he can't catch it and tag the runner. The Times is just piling on.
2006-07-21 07:24:45
440.   Simone
I just caught up on all the stuff that has been going on with this loss. Everyone (and I include the Yankee players) needs to chill out.

438 Mussina has always been tactless.

2006-07-21 07:29:24
441.   Jetersgirl
I like Moose but I'm completely annoyed by his comments. Those comments should have been behind a closed clubhouse door.
2006-07-21 07:34:04
442.   Sliced Bread
Here's an excerpt from today's NJ Star Ledger. Larry Bowa's assessment of Rodriguez's recent throwing problems:

-----------------------------------------

Almost all of Rodriguez's errors this year have been on throws, and those happen when he drops his elbow and the ball sails.

"It's definitely important for me to get on top of the baseball and make sure (the throw) is truer," he [Rodriguez] said.

Third-base coach Larry Bowa, who is the infield instructor, said Rodriguez takes more practice grounders in pregame drills that anyone on the team.

"He takes 35-40 groundballs every day and throws everything chest-high," Bowa said. "As soon as the game starts, he drops his arm slot down and the ball sails. I don't know what else you can do.

"To me, when you drop your arm like that, you're trying to guide the ball instead of just getting on top and throwing it. Until Alex realizes he's got a cannon and doesn't need to guide it, it's going to be a mental thing with him.

"It's almost like, 'I don't want to make a mistake here.' That's what it looks like to me. Instead of just saying you know what, I'm going to throw this baby right over the top, and if it goes 50 rows in the stands, it goes 50 rows in the stands.' Everybody makes aggressive errors. But these aren't aggressive errors."

2006-07-21 08:18:55
443.   DarrenF
438 It really is amazing how ARod diverts criticism from the rest of the team. I don't recall seeing anything like it.

1-for-4, a double, a walk, a run, in the middle of 2 of NYY's 4 runs, 2 nice defensive plays, 1 error. Heck, ARod was one of the NYY Stars of the Night.

Personally, I'm very troubled and angered by Torre's innuendo and measured responses regarding ARod. Torre has a history of defending Yankee players to the point of absurdity. I don't think Torre ever said an unkind word about Kevin Brown of Jeff Weaver. David Cone goes 4-14, 6.91 and it was always one or two bad pitches. Which is fine. It's part of his job, I suppose. But there is one exception to this kid-glove treatment, and it has been this way since day one. Torre praises Big Papi more than the praises Alex Rodriguez.

In the history of baseball, five runs never scored because of one error. Every other time a player makes an error, Torre looks to the pitcher to pick him up.

2006-07-21 08:19:34
444.   Shaun P
442 That's a great story, Sliced. Sounds like - big surprise! - A-Rod just needs to relax.

Why hasn't the "master motivator", the "Ol' Ball Coach", The Boss himself called A-Rod into his office and said, "Just relax and be yourself and $$$$ them all. You're going to be just fine."

You know, like he did before last season, when A-Rod went out and won the MVP.

On another note, I couldn't be happier with the addition of Larry Bowa to the coaching staff. I think he was pretty awful as a manager, but it sounds like he's a fantastic coach.

2006-07-21 09:09:17
445.   Schteeve
Moose looked totally exasperated with that play as it happened. Probably should have refrained from commenting, but he isn't a politician and never has been. b
2006-07-21 10:58:41
446.   AbbyNormal821
OK - I missed what Moose said last night that is causing all this discussion - what did he say??
THANKS!
2006-07-21 11:11:35
447.   rsmith51
446 Here you go, Abby.

http://tinyurl.com/zu9q2

I didn't think it was terrible what he said. He basically wants what ARod wants.

2006-07-21 11:18:43
448.   AbbyNormal821
447 - Thanks! It wasn't so terrible. Knowing Moose's delivery where post-game interviews are concerned (dry & stone-faced even on good days!) that remark sounded like typical Mussina
2006-07-21 11:37:29
449.   Jetersgirl
446 447 Alone it's not soo terrible but coupled with the way the fans and media have been pouring it on the last thing he needed to do was point fingers.
2006-07-21 12:17:53
450.   rsmith51
449 That is true, Jetersgirl. I think it would be nice if the fans treated him more like Jeter. It's not like he is not trying. I hope he can have a good stretch, but the fans and media just can't seem to have that.
Show/Hide Comments 451-500
2006-07-21 13:15:25
451.   tommyl
450 Jeter has also been treated badly. Two (or three?) years ago when he started off awfully he was booed quite loudly at the stadium for a few weeks. The difference is that Jeter is homegrown and won 4 rings already so he has a much longer leash than A-Rod does. Booing of stars in NYC is nothing new, but it does disgust me everytime its done. Its one thing to boo someone who isn't trying or is being selfish. But what do I know, I'm just a moron procastinating by typing on this blog.
2006-07-21 13:26:25
452.   BxSparksNYC
Best advice I'm suprised no one has given Mr. Rodriguez. Go on a media boycott until the end of the season or playoff time and focus on what's going on between the lines...he doesn't need the endosements or face time on sportscenter...just play...let the stats do the talking...

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