Baseball Toaster was unplugged on February 4, 2009.
The Yankees wasted a good outing from Mike Mussina, who has previously owned the Twins, losing 5-1 on Friday night. The game moved along quickly for the first six-and-a-half innings and the Yankees were just "off" enough--both offensively and defensively--to come up short.
The Twins' young right-hander, Scott Baker allowed just one run over seven innings, mixing pitches and change speeds effectively. He didn't throw hard, but had the Yankees off-balance all night. A lot of his pitches were just off the plate, just out of the strike zone, and the Yankee hitters anxiously jumped on them. There were a lot of harmless fly ball outs. Gary Sheffield flew out four times and saw less than ten pitches on the night (he swung at the first pitch in his first two at bats, and the team made six first-pitch outs in the first five innings). According to the New York Times:
"He was like a surgeon," Yankees Manager Joe Torre said. "He was down. He was up. Hitters like to zone in on location, and they were never able to do that."The thing he did the best was get ahead of a lot of hitters, and sometimes we just got caught in-between."
..."It's weird, because we need to learn how to win these close games," Johnny Damon said. "We need to learn how to push across runs. It just shows how good a pitcher can be when he's around the strike zone and doesn't walk anybody."
Mussina pitched well for most of the game--running into trouble in the third and later, in the seventh. Jorge Posada was thrown out at the plate attempting to tag on a fly ball to right. The replays showed that he was safe on a close play. The Yankee catcher was involved in another critical play later in the game.
In the seventh, with two men on and the Twins holding a one-run lead, Juan Castro popped a Mussina change up foul. Posada raced over towards the first base dugout to make the play but couldn't get there in time. Jason Giambi, who was playing back off the base was too late arriving as well. The truth is, Posada covered a lot more ground than Giambi did, yet if anyone was going to make that play it would have been the first baseman. In what was clearly going to be Mussina's final batter of the game, Castro worked the count full, then fouled off several pitches before slapping an RBI single to left.
It was just one of those nights. The Bombers put the first two men on in the eighth but Bernie Williams bounced into a double play--they went listlessly in the ninth, almost as if they had a plane to catch. Kyle Farnsworth pitched the bottom of the eighth and allowed two more runs to score.
I've complained about Farnsworth's thought-process in the past and last night was an ideal example of why the guy drives me nuts. Farnsworth's two best pitches are a plus fastball and a sharp slider. But you don't get the sense that he knows how to mix his pitches properly--he falls in love with dominating a hitter and makes things tougher on himself in the process.
With two men out and nobody on, Farnsworth was pitching to Torii Hunter, a right-handed hitter. He threw a slider for strike one and then got Hunter to wave at a nasty slider for strike two. Now, I'm thinking, okay, time to come up and in with the heat. Posada signaled for a fastball and you could see him motioning for it to be high and tight. Hunter is a free swinger, after all. Farnsworth shook him off.
C'mmon, Meat, I'm thinking at home. We're going to go through this Nuke Laloosh routine all year, aren't we? (Funny to consider Jorge Posada as the sage Crash Davis, huh.) But no, Farnsworth wanted to get him out on another slider. It would be difficult to throw one better than the pitch Hunter had just swung through. Sure enough, the next pitch was a slider, it wasn't as nasty as the previous one, and Hunter slapped the pitch into right for a double.
Justin Morneau, a lefty, was next. He had a great swing at a Farnsworth fastball that was low and right over the plate. The pitch was fouled straight back indicating that Farnsworth had gotten away with one--Morneau was right on it. He got strike two on another fastball, but this one was up and away, and he simply over-powered Morneau with it. So now, I'm thinking, maybe time for the slider, or another high heater. Instead Farnsworth threw another low fastball--seemingly identical to the pitch Morneau just missed--which was promptly slapped into left field for an RBI single.
Now, maybe Farnsworth's location was just off. Again, I'll admit that I'm ready to be critical of the guy so I'm not exactly even-handed when discussing him. He's clearly got good stuff. I just don't know that he's got much sense. And after a long night of lousy at-bats, it was the icing on the gravy so to speak. Farnsworth didn't lose the game for the Yankees, he just made it uglier.
No breaks for the Bomb Squad tonight as they face Minnie's ace, Johan Santana. Santana has not pitched well in his first two outings, which is just enough to make me believe that he'll be on tonight. Jaret Wright goes for the Yanks.
Once again, the Yankees fail to hit a pitcher they've never seen before. It seems like a problem that has persisted even when the lineup has changed. It leads me to believe there is a scouting problem. Thoughts?
People hated Farns before he got here. Maybe it was the pitch sequence, maybe it was Posada's fault, maybe his head is screwed on backwards because of how Torre's treated him. Who knows. But sometimes -- even with a public enemy number one like Kyle -- people have to realize that you make a good pitch and balls fall in front of your rightfielder and skip by on the artificial turf. It's not always a sign that you "can't get it done."
The Yankees are 3-3 in quality starts this year, all by Johnson and Mussina. They are 2-2 in non-quality starts. If we can turn around the offense a bit and actually win those quality games by Johnson and Mussina, we'll be able to get our record straightened out. If we can't rely on anyone else, better teams will pass us by and it could be a long season.
In my own piece at COH, I talk about the fact that the Red Sox, at 7-3, have 5 wins in games where their starter gave up only 1 run. Schilling and Beckett have each done it twice and Wakefield did it once. We need a few more stellar games like that.
Lemme guess, the offense sucks against one night, then goes and demolishes their ace the next (see Oakland, Anaheim).
And I really hate seeing the Sox and the unfortunately healthy Schilling win close games.
really nice observations on farnsworth. i'm not familiar with him myself, but i enjoy your insights. will have to pay more attention to him when the sox / yanks face off this season.
I haven't seen Farnsworth enough to really get a decent read on the guy. When the Yanks signed him, all I read about was how he has this electric stuff but that he sometimes fell in love with his slider. From my POV, that fastball looks pretty damn straight, a la Scott Proctor. Is it possible that he's overrated?
I know these games count as much as September but if the Yanks can stay with a few games of first until June with a mix-and-match setup crew then they will be lights out the rest of the way - assuming Dotel is solid.
If I was managing the Yanks I would roll out Farnsworth in the 8th of every game where NY was tied or a save situation and live with the results. I'd also call the pitchs from the dugout because while he has electric stuff, he's shown he has no clue how to use it.
The classic bit is Jorge gave G a look that could kill like "Come on man! You couldn't get to that!?".
Right then I knew that was the Yanks last chance - seems silly but I just knew. Most every other 1B makes that play. That Jorge was even close said it all and esp. why we lose these close games - exactly those kind of plays kill us over the long run.
He may bump Phillips which is bad. He's a power guy who is 5 for 30 at the Stadium with 1 double and 4 singles. He's a former Baseball America poster child who has achieved 400 some strikeouts in 1600 some MLB ab's. I recall BBA going to some great lengths to criticize Nick Johnson in comparison to Pena. Guess they blew it on that one. He is what he is I guess.
Glad Smith made it to the Bronx, well Min./St. P. anyway. It'd be nice if we could figure a way to keep him with the big club. He can be very valuable and can be more than just a LOOGY I think. It's going to take a little while for them to figure out what roles they fill in the pen. It would be nice if they had some interchangeable parts they could mix and match with especially if some of them have big arms.
I can't get worked up about last night. It was what the team is - until they prove otherwise. Unless I start thinking about the GM...[IRS pencil into eye]
Guh.
You guys have MIGUEL Cairo playing first base?
Played for the Mets last year. That guy? At first base for the Yankees?
Wouldn't the entire city of Cairo, Egypt dropped onto 1B have a better range and chance of getting on base on offense? I watched him for our guys ALL last year.
Miguel Cairo?
Joe goes with what he knows, and he knows Cairo. I am not particularly averse to Cairo, he performs in pinstripes, just not blue ones in Queens.
He is focused, focused on a contract extensoin and ensuring he gets his "due" in the press, anathema to Yankee tradition. I love the guy's production, but isn't the money enough, you need attention too?
Right on! How can they live with only 3 in-house Chef's and 30 cars?
Wow. Wright just channeled Ankiel!
If Wright gets to the 5th, I'll be plenty happy.
I don't understand why Cairo is in the game except as a late inning defensive replacement and the occasional spot start for Cano/Jeter when they are tired.
Steal the bag Alex! Do it! We're not facing Bartolo Colon damn it! Move your freakin feet.
He needs to get some starts on a regular basis so we can put this grass is greener garbage to bed re: Phillips.
BTW, I feel compelled to point out that however bad people may think the YES announcers are (I happen to like them myself), they are infinitely better than the Minn. ones. Last night they were actually rooting for the Twins, loudly last night. It was like watching a game with your annoying drunk friend yelling in your ear.
Not that he doesn't do it, he ust never does it when he actually should. Like on a day when you will have few base runners and you're facing a stud pitcher. He'll wait till we're at Tampa.
I'll take Bernie any day, night, afternoon, or twilight over Phillips. No doubt. To think Phillips is a better option is simply misguided.
lol. Hey, I didn't say Reggie wouldn't be a better option. You're too much.
Like many on here pointed out, I truly wish we had signed either Piazza or Thomas as a DH. Its the easiest position to fill (no fielding required) and the Yankees treat it like a throwaway.
75 I don't even think Bernie is necessarily the answer. But Phillips has looked so unimpressive against big league pitching that I dont think he's the answer either.
Well, it's not like I expected a win against Santana anyway, why stress.
Joe doesn't pull the plug, he turns up the volume.
Proctor warming up. Can't blame him. Might as well keep the good pitchers out.
Wang starts! RJ and Chacon both prefre 4 days rest to 5. Moose and Wang just have to suck it up.
Whether rational or not, I like to blame Damon Oppenhiemer for pretty much everything.
Stupidity is doing the same thing more than once expecting different results. Live it, learn it, love it!
Joe is going with a 4 man rotation. Wright only starts when there aren't days off between series, it's the one move Joes' made that I like.
Matt,
Why not at least try it?
Insanity, right, thanks bro. One, well 10 too many Gin and Tonics last night.
And Wright is an awful reliever.
Fine then, start a prospect. I would love to see that, but Joe doesn't like to play anyone more than 30 years younger than he. Just put Wright in the pen and be done with it!
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?statsId=5839&type=pitching3&three=1
It's not a movement, more like limiting the damage and trying something else. He clearly isn't a good starter anynore, well, if he ever was.
Yes. I'm rooting for him now. No way we'll score against any above average pitcher, might as well see a no no.
Shit, what are you doing Jete! No no I said, don't give us hope.
Right, for our sterling infield defense to get some needed practice.
I'll take Jete, Cano and Arod over Sheff, Limp, and limper in the OF.
Signed,
St. Joe Torre
That's my story and I'm sticking to it... ;-)
I gotta go now, Bowa's yelling at me.
St. Joe Torre
Keep Andy Phillips on the bench where he belongs.
Now lets see if they remember how to get a runner home from 3rd.
That's baseball for you....
Matsui hits very well cleanup and while Giambi gets on base a lot, I'm not sure I'm ready to trust him hitting behind Damon and Jeter just yet. I want a guy that puts the ball in play in the 3 hole.
Good job, A-Rod!
Nice work, Alex. You don't have to hit a homer every time.
St. Joe Torre
Thanks for being as incompetent as Joe, Ron, thanks so much.
Call him Gator you moron, do you even know the man Bert?
--St. Joe Torre
If we can get to him, we have Mariano...finally.
WOO HOOO!!! Where's Mariano.
Is he Buddhist? Does he believe that for every smart thing he does, he must do an equally stupid thing?
Did he mean use them 4 days in a row, just not 2?
If we knew about this before he was signed, this was a bonehead move by Cash. If we didn't know, they should take his fuckin money away. Or make him start, just leave him in for nine miserable innings until he cries. The big fuckin baby.
Marc,
You're right. Why wait until the league sees him for a while, that would be silly.
There are very few announcers that don't fit that description.
OK, Yanks. One or two here wouldn't hurt... Let's get busy...
The bunt was the right idea, but these bums can't capitalize. What's up with Sheff and A-Rod? Matsui should hit 4th.
MO...STRIKE OUT THE F-ING SIDE!!!!!!!!!!!
First real crusher of the season for us.
I don't mind Mo's ninth, but I mind greatly not having gotten Damon in in the top of the inning.
Serious baseball teams have to get that run in, I'm sorry. This is just not acceptable.
This team can't win unless they score in double digits.
Wow, Mo was fucking pissed!
Did you guys see that on yes? He was fuming after that hit.
Damon on 3rd with one out and the first two guys can't get him home for an insurance run. Matsui's throw put the winning run in scoring position and it bit us.
This team is built to piss me off.
for more than a century baseball has been played that way and it wins....if your players know how to do it properly....when you stack your lineup with sluggers you win by moonshots or suffer those kind of failures.
I'm sure you'll get some late hits the next time we blow someone away, just like you always do. Why waste em in the close ones, right?
you bunt the runner over for insurance runs in the 9th inning....that's how every team has EVER done it in the history of baseball.
go back and read Baseball 101.
Look back at the history of the game and then talk to me. Jeter has power and patience, but I guarantee Mickey Mantle would have bunted in that situation too.
Yes, yes I was, and they won by doing the right thing, not this horse shit!
I say send him to Tropicana Field and eat his salary for any of Tampa's outfielders, preferably Crawford if we can get him.
"Born to be a ballplayer (he was named after the great catcher Mickey Cochrane), Mantle was the first power-hitting switch-hitter. He also hit for average, peaking at .365 in 1957. He was always a better hitter from the right side, but was capable enough from the left to hit 373 of his 536 career homers. He also used a drag bunt from the left side that made it nearly impossible to throw him out, and he was once clocked at 3.1 seconds from home to first base."
In those days, even power hitters bunted and ran and played the right way. So you can't tell me for one freakin' second that a bunt wasn't the proper thing to do in that situation.
Mike,
Exactly, and that is why this season will end just like last year if they don't get to playing baseball. Jeter looks so out of place with these clowns.
We did score 5 runs and that should be enough to win. There wasn't a home run in our big rally, so we did come through playing the right way in some respect. The bigger issue that will plague us in the long run is the hideous starting pitching that we have 3-4-5. Can someone step up and give us a quality start?
I'm not all that emotional actually. I just think your idea is 100% wrong. No offense intended. It's fundamental baseball 101 that your making a mistake on. Seriously. From Little League, to high school ball, to college and the minors, and even the Majors....that's what every manager will do EVERY time. I'm hard pressed to imagine any of the current managers in baseball that would do anything differently with Jeter at bat and two MVP type players behind him.
I wonder if anyone else in this chat would agree with you. I doubt it.
I agree with you mike. I just wish Arod and Sheff would stop doing their best to be the bizzarro Ortiz and Ramirez. 99 times out of 100, those two will get that runner home, bank on it. Maybe Joe should make the team watch tape of late inning Red Sox games.
Or you do what we do, leave him stranded at 3rd over and over and over and over.
1) you never sacrifice in little league-high school because half the balls end up behind the catcher anyway. also, a lot of ground balls end up as errors. unless the kid can't hit at all, you don't bunt.
2) some managers would bunt with any hitter in that situation tonight, some wouldn't. i can't imagine earl weaver bunting one of his star hitters, but i sure can imagine dallas green doing it.
3) i don't care if people in this chat agree with me, but i hate it when they pin the failure on sheffield battiling his butt off and arod not getting the hit in the ninth when they all came through huge in the seventh. sometimes you can execute, and sometimes the pitcher executes on you. in the ninth, rincon won the battles, but he only had 2 battles to face since we gave up one for him.
also, jeter had an 0-2 count and he bunted ball 3. even in your baseball 101 book, it must say to bunt strikes.
i'd love to drop this for your sake and everybody elses as jeter makes his own call on sac bunts and has been doing for 3 or 4 years now. i wish he didn't, but he seems to agree with you more than me and i think he does a heckuva job 99.99% of the time.
It seems that you're a little more emotional than I. I sincerely am not out to insult you, but I must continue to disagree with you.
I appreciate that you have played and coached for a long time, but I think you will find if you go out and survey 100 coaches that more than 90 of them would have bunted Jeter in that situation.
I also don't agree with your assessment of Little League ball as a place where you never sacrifice runners. Every Little League team I've ever been around has bunted perhaps more than was necessary. If a Little League team bunts well, it forces young fielders to make tough plays, and creates scoring opportunities. A kid is more likely to successfully bunt his way on than walk in many leagues, as their eye has not yet developed keenly enough to discern balls and strikes against decent pitchers.
I'll agree to drop it, because I don't want to build any animosity between us. I don't know you yet, and I'd hate to come off like a jackass. Plus, I've been known to be wrong every so often and I'll leave it open here that it could be one of those times. ;) Let's get 'em next game, huh?
i also thought mo k'ed both mauer and castillo and the umps jobbed him and i'm more upset about that than anything that happened while we were hitting.
It looked like the Yankees were attempting to pick up an insurance run at that point. I can't argue with the strategy. Jeter does shoot the ball to right with the best of them but relying on Shef. to pick up a sac fly is not to much to ask. He gave a good 12 pitch ab. Sometimes it doesn't work out. There's a game or two left in the season. We may get over this one.
Here's the link: http://makeashorterlink.com/?M136237FC
Such tough lucks happen, though of course Jaret Wright's performance reminded us of what happened last year...
Lets just hope Wang can finally consistently find he's stuff tomorrow, he'll need it after using up so much bull pen pitchers today....
Essentially, I stand somewhere between traditionalist and metrics afficionado. I tend to believe that metrics are something to guide you, and that situational data is important to understanding the true nature of baseball. I also believe that each situation is unique and that human intellect can judge when the outcome of that situation will be different than the statistical sample.
Data and human intuition are sometimes at odds, but I trust my intuition and therefore I'm not against sacrifice bunting in certain rare situations like last night. It's open to debate, and I'd like to thank jonnystrongleg for challenging me to think about it more and blog about it. I'm sure this kind of debate will rage on forever.
The Yankees had three chances for someone to drive him in.
Jeter gave up one of those chances.
And the guy was three for three with three rbi on the night at that point.
End of story.
(coming home and reading this thread, it's as if Bill James had never lived, Baseball Prospectus didn't exist etc etc. Look dudes, once upon a time I believed in all that "this is the way baseball is played", aesthetics of the game crap too. It didn't take too much reading around in the Jamesian world to convince me otherwise.)
"What happened to the Yankees Suck chants you pork belly eating bible thumping whtieys!"
mikeplugh
"True Alex. Good battle. The Yanks need to quiet the critics by getting that run home from 3rd....but a good win all around...when Mo nails it down."
You know, it's the yankee fans that make the yankees worth watching.
What should be the average of outfielders throwing to the correct base/cut-off man?
I like Matsui, but he blew it. The play was to hold the runner on first... especially when he had NO shot at the guy on third.
If the man is on first, he only makes it to 2nd (or maybe 3rd) on that dribbler, and maybe the game is tied, instead of lost.
A fielder has a LOT more control over where he throws the ball then a batter does on where he hits (or misses) the ball. Lots of 'should haves/could haves', but Matsui is the real goat. There is no excuse for the play he made.
I think the pitching will improve, but let's face it, most of the guys aren't out there for their defense.
One last thing - I almost spit up what I was drinking when I saw Phillips come to the plate in the 8th.
Of course all things aren't equal. With Jeter swinging a hot bat I think I've rethought this a little and would say on reflection it's a closer call than I thought last night. One could have gone either way in terms of strategy and made a good case to support: 1/ playing for a big inning or for one run and 2/ swing away or sacrificing to move the runner up. Had it been Cairo coming up instead of Jeter with Shef and A-rod to follow I bunt every time and play for the run, with Jeter in that spot I swing away. So I pull a 180 and thank the infinite that I'm not Joe Torre and therefore don't have to explain myself.
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