Talk about ball speak! Damon twinged and Small strained. With the Janks, ya neva know what be the truth and what be the spin of a four-seemer. Concerned, yah. Especially after the Jaret tossing. Loved watching the kids. They run, hit, slide, stand-in-the box, catch, and walk with that pinstripe swagger. Could it be that the next generation will come from within. Nah. Georgie has done enough wrong to be back on probation or suspension or whatever he was on when the last youth movement occurred. And we cannot be sure that the heir apparent or $man have enough clout. But for me, an enemy of the WBC (and one at risk of being branded as anti-patriotic), the absence of Jete, Bernie, and A-Rod has been a blessing in disguise. Pardon my omissions.

Mooses post-throw interview with Harold. He claimed he threw too good. Working on a new pitch. Another Jank angle on the game.

Cano's. 3/4. Didn't know how to take the bait.

Erickson threw minimally. Will vomit if he and Leiter make the trip north. What is that about?

Sorry. Proof reading error. He hasn't done enough wrong. And really, Bud ain't suspending anyone.

When Moose is on like yesterday it's a beautiful thing to watch. Mussina at his best is like Greg Maddux with better stuff.

Thanks for keeping us in the loop. Concise and informative.

can we talk about duncan again?

he has a helluva AFL season. he's sluggin .875. how do we find a place for this guy?
i am all for letting players mature, but sometimes people need to start young.

allow me to really stretch for a moment: players with a sense of destiny (records, hall of fame) generally have a bubble around them that helps foster the confidence it takes to stay great. that is: if a player thinks he is going to set some records or go down as "one of the greats", he is more likely to work his butt off (at least i'd like to think so). the only way a player can begin to amass the kind of numbers we'd be talking about (4,000 K's for pitchers, 500 HR, etc) is to start early. the future HOF'ers we talk about nowadays (jeter, griffey, clemens, bonds?, ARod) all saw action at the MLB level at a very young age. it seems doubtful that a guy who came in the league at 26 and piled up a few great seasons by 30 would be seen in the same light. we need to find a way to FIND a place for Duncan (and future Duncans) so they can have this chance. getting a coupld yougens on the field every day would also be a great PR move for the yankees. : )

when do we have giambi till?

We are all pessimistic about seeing the kids on the Yankess anytime soon. I am in the minority... I think we will see youth.
My reasoning:
1) Man-of-Cash: I think the trading youth for established (over-the-hill) Vets was more the Tampa (win-now-worry-later) contingent. I think Man-of-Cash is smarter then that.
2) While we WANT to win the WS, we have gone 5 years without one, and the world has not imploded. I think there is actually a little less pressure to always 'win-it-all'.
Hell, last year we were 'successful' because we barely managed to crawl into the PS.
3) Everytime a Vet (like RJ, Giambi, etc) gets hurt... everytime a 10 million$ Yankee (like Pavano, and soon Damon) underperforms, I think Cash cringes, and the need to rebuild from the Farm up comes into focus.
4) I don't think our kids are highly touted enough to be trade bait for anyone really worth having. I want M. Cabrera. Can we get him? Only if Florida will take $$. Unlike the Sux, who have MLB ready trade bait, I just don't think we do. I don't think we will trade 3 (maybe) kids for one maybe Vet.
5) Cano and Wang... and maybe Phillips.
6) The Taxes keep going up. After Big George, the FO might not be as 'pound foolish'.
7) We do have some talent 3 or 4 years away.
To me.... we have Jetes, ARod, Cano, Wang and Matsui with 3 years (or more) as a base. Add one REAL position player (M. Cabrera) to build the nucleus, and fill the gaps with the kids. We will need some trade bait to rebuild our pitching (Moose, RJ, Pavano and Wright are all gone after 2007).

We will always BUY/ADD Vets/Ringers to fill the gaps (as we did from 1996-2001), but the days of trying to buy the majority of our roster are over.

Great stuff today, Cliff. Thanks for cracking the mystery of the missing Bean. Did Blue Oyster Colter require the knee surgery before or after he kicked Torre's dog?

Mendoza or Erickson? Liver or tongue on pumpernickel? Unappealing choices galore.

I understand the concern about Thompson (his tendency to get promoted and go into a deep freeze), but it's hard to ignore how good he's looked wheeling around camp.

Bernie who? Bubba what?
Let the kids play!

No pinch running, no pinch hitting, no pinching anything. Damon's pre-season activities should be reduced to signing autographs, and NOT talking about the Red Sox.

From today's NY Times:

"Told of Damon's setback in Puerto Rico, the Yankees' Bernie Williams said, 'I better get my arm ready.'"

Oh dear God, no.

6 Seems like everyone's saying 2008 - rather than never - is the year of the Minor Leaguer.

7 seems to make the point that Thompson should be brought out before he needs to produce, no? If he plays in this lineup this year and begins adapting to the pitching as opposed to a lineup where the catcher isn't hitting and Giambi, Matsui, Damon, and Sheffield are all a year older and hitting .235 for a year. . . .

I can't believe how much I've fallen in love with the WBC. I'm having difficulty concentrating on the NCAA Tourney and my picks. That never happens this time of year - even the Yanks take a backseat to the tourney.

Anyhow, I just read this piece on the WBC and I'd like to give Selig and his cohorts their due praise for truly bringing us a great event.

http://tinyurl.com/zonwn

BTW, why am I not worried about the Damon thing? If it were Jeter and/or ARod, then I'd be worried. We still have the BEST leadoff hitter in Jeter, so I have nothing to worry about. I would be comfortable with Thompson, Crosby or Reese starting in CF if Damon can't go. Damon or the Yanks don't seem too concerned. Neither should I. I mean...it would have been nice if the Yanks would have got Uncle Milton instead of Damon, but what can we do about that now?!?! (Let's see if that last statement gets a certain Uncle Milton fanatic going). :-)

Way to encourage RG, Dimelo. ;)

I am not too worried about the open spots on the roster. Remember, this is Joe Torre we're talking about. Unless there's a terrible injury, or a long extra-inning game, my guess is we won't see whoever they are. Phillips made all of 2 late-inning subs without getting an AB before Brown came off the DL last April.

That said, this is why its bad to have useless veteran crap like Scott Erickson around. You never know when Torre might need to get his veteran fix . . .

I'd bring Thompson and Mendoza north, but that's just me.

I know I'm in the minority here, but yesterday's WBC games were simply spectacular. For anybody who loves baseball, they were classics.

I thought the Yanks-BoSox rivalry was intense. The intensity of yesterday's games was unmatched by anything I have ever seen on a baseball field. The cubans and the puerto ricans wanted to eat each pitch thrown, and regardless of the fact that the Koreans didn't have anything on the line on yesterday's game, they played their hearts out.

it reminds me (watered-down a bit) of the collegiate rivalries that make college sports so enjoyable but with the main difference that this is done at a professional and much higher level.

It was a magical day of baseball.

Is there a reason that Vernon Wells is not playing CF?

BTW Alex, congrats on the book premiere! I look forward to receiving my copy soon. The Flood opinion was one I made sure to read after I started law school. Now I'm very curious to learn more about the backstory of it.

Also, with all this talk about Erickson and Mendoza, I have to ask "Where's Hideo Nomo?" I don't want to see him in the big leagues, but I'm surprised how quiet he's been.

Yeah Alex, I just read WasWatching and I'll be picking up a copy too.

12 Tocho, the Koreans DID have something on the line yesterday -- national pride.
--
I read recently that there's been a verbal fued going on between the Japanese and Korean players -- and as an extension, between Japan and Korean.

I read that Ichiro, among others, claimed that Korea had never, not will ever, beat the Japanese team. I guess yesterday's game answered that question.

There is a huge amount of national pride on the line here and my guess is that it extends to the USA Team as well. Maybe not to the point of fanaticism that we are seeing on the part of the Latin fans, but something tells me that, given the overwhelming presence of Latin players in the average MLB clubhouse, the American players don't want to go back to their respective teams having LOST to a Latin team.

Should that happen, can't you just see Ozzie Guillen flapping his gums non-stop about his beloved Latin players?

15 I'm pretty sure Nomo is elsewhere - the ChiSox I believe. He signed a minor league contract with them not too long ago.

unpopster, that's exactly my point.

A reasonable manager/person would have played their B team out there, not their number 1 pitcher (see Yanks-BoSox with Wright on the mound on the last game at Fenway).

so many things are on the line on these games that go beyond sports. I was envious of the fire in the eyes of the cubans yesterday, they were passionate and in the same way professional. you could only hope to see that fire in the MLB, it simply does not exist. I know we have gamers and natural winners (Mo, Jetes, paulie), but their drive to win a game does not match what we saw yesterday.

the natural regional rivalry is multiplied in both cases (cuba v PR and Japan v. Korea) for historical and political reasons. The semifinal between Cuba and Dominican also looms that way. I wish we would have another Japan/Corea matchup for the other semifinal.

I'm sure that in the final game of the WBC unless the US in involved we will not see the fire and drive we saw yesterday.

17 um, that should have read:

"...Korea had never, NOR will ever, beat the Japanese team..."

Man is it good to see the WBC getting everybody excited. In fact, the naysayers are awfully quite as of late. My how sentiments have changed. I'm glad I got my tickets early (the US better take care of business tonight). Yes gents, I'll be there representing Tha Bronx Banter (never got that Officially Licensed Bronx Banter T-shirt though) and will try to give a first hand account of the experience. When that will be will probably depend on how my bracket shakes out.

It will be good to have Bernie back in Tampa, as much as I enjoyed the fact that he was such a star for his Puerto Rican team. Nice to see a Yankee get some love "on the road".

The Korea/Japan game was a perfect rivalry affair, and the Japanese are beside themselves right now, thinking about what could have been. They had the tying runner on 1st with only one out in the bottom of the ninth and the last two guys struck out. Ouch.

If the US can advance by beating Mexico, I will be writing a preview of the Korea/US rematch with a focus on the Korean player profiles and a look at the overly nasty Korean media bias against the US. It's something to behold how much they hate us at times. You'd think that Kim Jong Il had some say in what his South Korean neighbors wrote about the United States sometimes.

mike,

um, right about now everyone, but maybe the Brits, hate us. But that's a topic for another forum and another time.

As I am assuming that the US will beat Mexico, I am looking forward to your preview of the Korean team.

unpopster, we as Yankee fans got it worse. We live in the U.S and they hate us all over the world. Then in the U.S we are Yankee fans and everyone who is not a Yankee fan hates a Yankee fan. Man, we live a tough life....but I wouldn't have it any other way.

Nas: You can hate me now, but I won't stop now...

Dimelo, well said. But that universal hatred only makes the Yankee faithful stronger. Bring on the hate! I'd much rather have that than indifference (Royals etc).
Dave Chappelle: Kiss the Rings, bitch!

I would just like to be able to see more of these WBC games. I only go to see one of the US games so far (and I'm busy tonight).

It was amazing to see the DR team celebrate after beating Venezuala.

Those WBC games yesterday were thrilling. The fans of these teams were the best ever. They were so invested in every pitch, every call, every play. I swear, the closest thing to this kind of intensity among fans is in the World Cup (football/soccer). The rivalry among the players were so intense. Afterwards, I thought the DR, Cuban and Korean players would explode from joy and that the Venezuelan, Puerto Rican and Japanese players would breakdown and weep. Selig and the MLBPA have totally sucked me in with the WBC. I love the drama, the excitement, and the competition. I never thought it would be this good, but damn this is some of the most fun baseball that I've ever watched.

Bud Selig must be creaming in his pants. He's finally managed to get something right. Bush can learn a thing or two about getting something right from Selig.

Allow this naysayer to stand up proudly -

My problem is not with the WBC concept - it's with the WBC implementation. It could have been oh so much better with:

1) November airdate = more great players
2) All games abroad in one region (Santo Domingo or Tokyo)
3) True tourney (double-elimination) with seedings
4) No ties, tiebreakers, pitchers throwing four innings, Al Leiter or Brian Schneider - possible if in Novemeber

So, at least one person thinks the WBC is far from right 28. There's something there worth building on but I'll be very disappointed if the implementation is the same in 2009. It's typical Bud - good but far from great (see also Juice testing policy).

Let me counter 29:

1) I'm thinking that given what a huge success it's been and how much fun all the players seem to be having we'll see much higher participation in 2009 even if it remains in March. Also, I'm beginning to wonder if giving baseball hungry fans this level of competition isn't part of what is making it such a success. I for one am usually pretty burned out by November from eight months of baseball capped by the intensity of the playoffs and World Series.
2) They did have games in Tokyo and San Juan, and there's no saying they can't rotate the location like the World Cup.
3) One-and-out in baseball is sketchy at best but there's not time for a proper series of series. I think the format now works pretty well, though I'm concerned about the double elimination semis and finals.
4) I grant you this one, though on some level if you're going to make it single-elimination it almost seems more fair to force the teams to use more of their pitchers, otherwise one or two dominating pitchers could decide the whole shebang, which would be impressive to watch, but not much fun. I mean, imagine a team like the Koufax/Drysdale Dodgers or the '01 D-Backs in a single-elimination tournament. Is that any fun for anyone else?

Besides, I'm sure they'll tweak it somewhat for '09. They did eventually figure out that they needed to rotate divisions to keep interleague play interesting. There is some modest proof that the Selig crew can learn.

30

Your first point rings true, Cliff. Baseball hungry fans will be drawn to even semi-real baseball (which the WBC certainly is) this time of year. I find the grapefruit league games interesting but a bit boring after awhile, so the WBC is a pleasant diversion until the season starts.

No doubt my feelings would be more intense about the WBC if the players were not treated like little children, quickly whisked out of harms way at the first sign of difficultly.

For the WBC to be able to turn into the Ryder Cup of baseball, with players actively working to make the team, viewing audiences up the yazoo, and national pride at stake, the players need to be able to leave it all on the field. Pitch counts be damned. Roger pitches tonight until his arm falls off. This is Game #7. Everything is on the line.

Or it's just an exhibition and who wins really doesn't matter.

Can't have both, at least in my eyes.

BP

Via the Deadspin this was pretty funny.

http://tinyurl.com/gyff9

Derek should've been her first.

The other external benefit of the WBC has been the extra game time the younger kids have gotten. It's been really interesting seeing them play in this context.

I was a real naysayer concerning the WBC. I think I've seen the light. It's been kind of neat. I must say however that I've enjoyed Simone's breathless excitement and her play by play reports almost as much as the games themselves. You go Simone.

My real problem must be with Uncle Bud. But I guess that's a rant for another day.

Sorry, not feeling any excitement whatsoever for Bud's Intergalactic Baseball Extravaganza.

Granted, the only WBC action I've witnessed was the US pulverizing South Africa, which was actually sickening, and a disgrace to the sport. It was like watching Mike Tyson punching Sasha Cohen around the ring.

Look, Russ Johnson just hit a home run in a split-squad game at Tampa to bring the Yanks within two runs. That, I'll watch.

"Granted, the only WBC action I've witnessed was the US pulverizing South Africa..."

If that's all you've seen, you're hardly in a place to complain. I was a vocal naysayer about this whole circus, until I was rewarded with some incredible baseball. Still think the jury's out on a lot of the implementation, but most of the games have made it more than worthwhile.

30

March rules out:

1) Other locations - players won't want to fly to Japan to then fly back two weeks later (recall Yanks/TB in 2004). On the other hand, I would love to fly to Tokyo in Novmember to watch the US play Japan and eat a ton of sushi while I'm at it. I can't think of a better way to end the baseball season.

2) Going off to Santo Domingo for two weeks in March won't be seen as a vacation by the players. In November it would. Once they're in shape - they can compete and have fun.

3) In November, it doesn't have to be one and out. I could imagine round 1 is pooled play. Round 2 could be double elimination. Six games in eight days - short and oh so sweet.

4) I want to see each country's best against another country's best. Would Japan have been beat by Korea if Godzilla played? Would Cuba have beat Panama if Mo played? Maybe more players will play in March next time, but my prediction is you'll get the most superstars if it's in a foreign locale in November - vacation and competitive baseball. March will never be a vacation, and so, some down-to-business players will stay home.

Sorry folks - I'm glad the WBC is off the ground. I just wish it could soar.

35 To me, pitching counts do not make for 'incredible baseball.'

Obviously, I can't criticize games I haven't seen, and I'm not. But just because a few of the games have been exciting, doesn't mean everybody has to care about them, right?

36 The problem with 2) and 4) is that in November the players can take vacation without having to play ball. You'll never get them to give up one of their four off months. And its not as if anyone earning even the major league minimum needs baseball to fly them to foreign locales. They gots the cash (unlike myself--you may want to fly to Japan to watch baseball, I'm just trying to find room in the budget to get to the Bronx 15-20 times a year).

Does anyone know how Wang Chung Tonight pitched today? I've just got over the shock after BC did everything in their power to lose today.

39 I saw Wang work the first and second innings. Groundballs aplenty. Cairo booted one which led to two runs. He left a few pitches over the plate that were stroked for line drives. Threw a few hard sinkers. Didn't seem to consistently have his best stuff from what I saw, probably would have looked better with Jeter and Rodriguez behind him.

hey, i'll be there at Petco on Saturday night. I can't wait, I think it'll be pretty exciting. At least more exciting than the team that usually plays there.

I'm excited to see any of the 4 teams honestly. I'd like to see Cuba play, or Korea. Those guys have played great baseball. If the US limps in, I'll be happy to cheer on Jete and A-Rod. I'll be wearing my Yanks hat for sure.

36 - Rob, I'm just not sure that having the WBC in November solves any of the issues you raised.

For the vast majority of teams, the season ends on October 1, not November 1. Guys have been on vacation for a month by the time November rolls around. So, who will actually be 'in shape'? The guys who played in the Serious are the most tired of all?

And because of that time off, down to business ballplayers are just as likely to stay away in November as they are in March, if not more so. They'll want to rest up for the next season. Take Mo for example - lately he's been resting his arm completely in the offseason. He's not going to