0 You know I don't know what to root for. Do I root for them to win and try to pull of an improbable comeback? or do I root for them to tank a bit so we can play the kids in a lower pressure, yet still major league environment?

1 I'd say just stop rooting, it's not worth the heartbreak. It's over. Yes, "root" for them to give Gardner, Aceves etc. increased opportunities, but they shouldn't have to "tank" in order for that to happen.

Tonight, root for Moose.

1 it's not so hard, root for moose's 20th, root for losses in every other game ...

nice to see that the ump has no nostalgia about getting moose his 20th

Holy crap, what a catch.

that was an effing catch

Damn

cricket? cricket?

Nah, cricket is that game with the bats that look like fraternity paddles.

8 My mind is still compressing from the mind-numbing Arod is never clutch nonsense expressed two threads back.

Nice play by Damon.

Bad baserunning by the Rays.

More reasons to be wary of Girardi:

The following is from the LoHud blog:

What about using Aceves or Hughes?

"We're talking about sending a rookie possibly out there who doesn't have a lot of starts in the big leagues. It's not like we have Cy Young, Steve Carlton, you know, waiting in the wings. If we did make a change, you're talking about youth. They don't have the experience."

11 Yes, very nice play by Damon. Say what you will about Damon, but he gives max effort on every play. Damon is one player who I think should be in the mix for 2009.

Hinske is an awful baserunner.

When did we trade Meacham?

13 Yeah, I wasn't too keen on the Damon signing. But he won me over early in his first season, when he got to 2B on sheer hustle, when someone dropped an easy popup. And the Yanks were up by 10 in the 8th inning at the time.

And now that I think about it...being a former Red Sox probably helped him on this play. Other outfielders would assume Nady would get it, or it was gone, but Damon's used to playing it off the left field wall. And backing up Manny...

10 Again, ARod's career OPS: 0.967. Career RISP: 0.955. 12 points lower or 1.3%. Unclutch, or the dfinition of average.

But wait! When a 'clutch' player hits with RISP, how did those runners get on? Why does the guy who get a hit with man on 2nd get more credit then the guy who doubled to get to 2nd? And what of leadoff hits. They're not 'clutch', are they? But they're pretty important to scoring, aren't they?

Solo HRs don't help a players RISP, but the tend to score a run. And getting a hit with man on 1st is cool, but not RISP cool.

Stats show (and lets be honest, our eyes too)that ARod has been terrible in the clutch this year. The same stats show he was insane last year.

We know Jeter is valuable because he scors so many runs. ARod, a clean up hitter, has scored 9% more runs then Jeter. 17% more then JD.

I think ARod does have some mental problems in pressure situations. I'll buy that, but they are way, way exaggerated by the press. I mean, it's a story if he takes off his shirt outside, so just imagine when he leaves men on base.

I'm not familiar with the 'clutch' stats posted in the (fan graphs) article. But they seem very one-dimentional.

Career OPS: 0.967
Career RISP: 0.955
Career Leading off: 0.979
Career Runners On: 0.981
Career Bases Loaded: 1.099
Career Hi Leverage: 0.974

regardless of where they actually end up, moose should be credited with strikes on somewhere approaching 8 out of 10 pitches he throws ... just a sheer pleasure to watch.

crap.

way to bust it cap'n!

wow. jeter would have been out by about 15 feet. yeesh.

damn upton, grrr.

22 the hell with the rest of you people, we're gonna crack 50 comments if i have to make a comment after every batter!

yeesh, arod was out on that 2-2 pitch ... when do our roboump overlords get hired???

that'll do pig, that'll do ...

Untied? Fancy that.

what the hell did cashman see in craig wilson, pt. II???

I'll add that to my list of things I have never seen before. Holy effin' smokes. What a shot.

Ohayo Gozaimasu! Gameday has gone all Linda Blair, shows bottom 4th but pictures Matt Garza pitching to X-Nady..though he already homered...

Why does A-Rod do so poorly with a man on 3B and less than two outs? Trying to do too much?

oh, i see ... all it takes is a homerun to bring all the front runners back!

;)

16 Actually, Arod hasn't been terrible in the clutch. He has been mediocre (OPS in the low .800s for both RISP and Close and Late). Now, for Arod, mediocre is terrible, but it is amusing that he hasn't even been as bad as some want to make him about to be. Unfortunately, Arod did have a lot of high profile unclutch ABs recently, so that is what sticks in everyone's craw. Of course, if we are going to use the observational method, I would assign Arod a clutch check mark for the bullet double play against the Jays on Saturday. I watched the ABs with my own eyes and think his approach was good and can't imagine hitting the ball much harder. Stats exist to help us cover all the ABs we don't see, but since we saw Arod hit a rocket, shouldn't we ignore the out?

The fan graph's clutch stats are nebulous because they don't define their leverage formula. Also, they don't account for externalities such quality of teams (shouldn't there more leverage in a 3-run game between contenders than a tie game between also rans). Furthermore, they define clutch as not being as good in high leverage as you are overall. That is flawed for several reasons, namely: (1) a hitter could be ridiculous in all situations, but just great in high leverage, rendering them unclutch; and (2) high leverage situations have a much smaller sample than overall, so a blip could skew the stat.

A-Rod is the best player in baseball (by a nose over Pujols)..anyone who boos him does not understand baseball. my 2 cents...

Alex almost pulled a Melkbone on that double play ball. Yikes.

29 That's a spot where Arod has been bad this year. He only has 39 PAs though, so you have to consider small sample. What is telling to me, however, is Arod only has 2 walks in those situations, suggesting he might be impatient or trying to do too much (which considering the way the offense has been, seems reasonable).

By the way, for his career, Arod has an OPS of 1.012 with a man on third and less than two outs (572 PAs).

Os down 10-1 in the 5th to Boston..are they even trying???

32 I agree. It's why I refuse to talk about A-Rod.

16 ARod is hitting .309. This is .003 higher than his career average and 11th in the league.

OB% and SLG% rank higher. Fifth in the league and second in the league.

(It's also quite bizarre that OB% and SLG% are suddenly ignored when splits are mentioned.)

So, I think it's safe to assume that the gripe is not with BA, it's with RISP BA. In other words, not the number of hits, but with the distribution of hits.

Right now, he's 100-for-300 with no RISP and 35-for-137 (.255) with RISP. Take 8 hits from category one and move them to category two. That even things out.

Big whoop. It wouldn't hurt, but it wouldn't help much.

Yankees would still be in third place and ARod would still be their best player, by far, and the best 3b in baseball (for what it's worth, Chipper Jones is hitting .184 with RISP and two outs and David Wright is hitting .224 with RISP and two outs).

Switch Pedroia and Cano and the Yankees are in first place.

34 I thought about it because the YES announcers were talking about it. And I remembered a couple of years ago, when Michael Kay was all over him for it. Said he was the worst player in the league with a man on third and less than two outs.

Before then, I didn't even know that was a stat anyone kept track of.

37 I should say, first place in the wild card, not first place in the AL East.

37 "Switch Pedroia and Cano and the Yankees are in first place." D'oh!! it's true, and it hurts...

17 CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!!!!!
cult of basebaal... you are our 1,000,000th comment!
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41 dammit, you should have made each of those their own comment. you know, to pad the stats, as it were, just like arod does! 22

God, why couldn't we have drafted Lincecum?

43 i dunno, because he went 20 spots before us?

I was just thinking how much I'm enjoying watching this game until I saw Jeter blow a fly to left with Nady closing in on him. This is is fielding strength, pop flies! Jetes, what gives?

This Moose kid is pretty good.

Also, Giambi beating anyone to the bag? He was downright spry there.

44 In either of the two years before the Giants took him.

moooooose!

now don't screw this up for moose with any more half-ass plays.

45 I think he was expecting Nady to get it. Just not used to working together, maybe.

No harm done.

Good hands Giambi!

43 Why can't we hire his dad to teach pitching mechanics? Yeesh his kid is good.

47 was he eligible? did he declare? was he drafted and didn't sign?

Should we go to a 4-man down the stretch to get Moose an extra start or two?

42 At the bottom of 16 , I posted some of ARod's CAREER stats. Please tell me which one(s) you have a problem with. Myself, I like the 'bases loaded' one.

52 Lincecum was selected by the Chicago Cubs in the 48th round (1,408th overall) of the 2003 MLB Draft, but did not sign.9 He decided to attend college instead, and was selected by the Cleveland Indians in the 42nd round (1,261st overall) upon re-entering the draft in 2005, but once again failed to sign.10 The next year, he was drafted 10th overall by the San Francisco Giants, becoming the first player from the University of Washington to be taken in the first round.7 He signed for a $2.025 million signing bonus on June 30, which at the time was the highest amount the organization had ever paid to any amateur player (until they gave $2.1 million to Angel Villalona a little over a month later).11

Do y'all think this team can get Moose 3 more wins? As a member of the DFA Moose team from 2007, I am happy to eat crow where he is concerned.

Man, Lincecum was ranked behind Hughes going into 2007. Wow.

Useless, non-clutch, stat padding leadoff single by ARod.

55 thanks for the info, i'd thought that was the first time he'd been drafted, since that was the first time i'd heard of him ... still, hard to fault the yanks, he went from 45th round to 10th overall pick in 1 year ... i'd say that's blowing up ...

53 well the yanks should at least skip the deadweight after the off-days to get him an extra start - not sure if they can get 2 extra starts

14 Per Baseball reference: "December 5, 1988: [Meacham] Traded by the New York Yankees to the Texas Rangers for Bob Brower"

Apparently Meacham never made the rangers or retired because there are no add'l stats for him.

54 personally, i have a problem with his production in the category of SORMB (strippers over replacement mannish blondes), YMMV.

60 Hey Ms. October, did you enjoy Bama's cakewalk over the kitties from Clemson?

Giambino takes one for the Moose!!!!

61 I was kidding. After the Rays had that idiotic running play at third base I figured Meacham was in charge there.

Damnit, I hate when this team plays the way it should have all year. It makes you realize what could have been, sigh.

63 hey Jeb, maybe being dense but...what the bloomin 'ell does your question mean?

62 A-Rod should hook up with Samantha Fox next..

65 Oh, gotcha, I got here late. I'm curious why the Rangers would trade for him and then he never played though. Around the time Meacham came up I remember our other big middle infield prospect was Andre Robertson, another washout...Though Robertson did have the excuse of a bad car wreck.

67 It was an off-topic question about the Alabama/Clemson NCAA football game from Saturday. Clemson was ranked #9 and Bama #25 and Bama just stomped them 31-10 and it really wasn't that close.

ARod's 1,592nd Runs Scored. 42nd on the All-time list.

68 broken necks tend to put a crimp in your style ...

63 haha - still seems too early for football - though i was in bama for most of the past two weeks and saw plenty of roll tide and war eagle car flags everywhere!

71 But not severed fingers!

http://tinyurl.com/5662ud

72 Then you know how damn hot it's been down here! Did you make it out to the Sloss Furnace "Stokin' the fire BBQ" competition? It was AMAZINGLY good. I've never eaten that much BBQ and also George Sarris from the Fish Market cooked a leg of lamb over a spit that was sheer perfection.

Moose with 99 pitches. One more inning?

mooooose...

69 ah, gotcha. never been a college sports fan, and hate football for the most part so was clueless there! baseball, Sumo and jai alai are the holy trinity!

73 he ought to have become a pitcher, probably would have put some weird movement on the ball. one of the guys on my HS baseball team lost the tip of one of his fingers to a lawn-mower accident ... gave him a nasty sinker.

77 Sumo? Really? I gotta get someone to explain that one to me because it seems like two fat guys in diapers slamming into each other. I realize that's NOT what it is, but that's what it seems like. I've never really gotten Nascar either, but I'm told that if you go see it live you "get it". Is that how sumo wrestling is?

67 i don't know that i've seen a picture of her since like 1987 ... is she still alive???

Man, this RNC video is sort of depressing...

Could Moose be up for Comeback Player of the Year?

74 no, sounds good though; i did go to the fish market a lot when i live in birmingham.

sounds like we will see joba tonight.
and i accidently left sportscenter on tonight and kruk was back to the whole joba as 7th/8th inning guy. i guess i am at fault for having that on - but damn are we going to be subjected to this all over again?

82 yeah - he will probably get votes, but i would think cliff lee gets it and as well as probably the cy young.

If the BP blows this lead for Moose, I will cry.

79 no idea of the appeal of Nascar but Sumo is amazing..　check this our
http://tinyurl.com/5trj9y　　
the history and pageantry of Sumo really make it special..

83 how does John Kruk have a job on tv??

81 brave man to subject yourself to that...

68 Meacham was simply cut by the Rangers. They really didn't give up much in Brower, so it seems like a trade in which each team jetisoned their disappointments. After being cut by Texas, Meacham played two more minor league seasons for Pittsburgh and KC before retiring.

Welcome back, Joba!

90 welcome back indeed - nice to see ya out there joba!!

Hey did you guys see Johnny Damon was nominated for the Roberto Clemente award? I hope he gets it. I just finished the Clemente book by David Maraniss and it's great.

If it was up to me, Moose would throw 5 innings every 4th day, followed by Joba for two and Mo for two.

89 Yeah, I don't remember seeing Brower do much. We had lots of little known guys in that era.

My first yankee game was in Baltimore and I saw Chuck Cary (remember him!?) throw a 2-0 shutout and Rags got the save. Donnie had a couple of hits.

Final verdict on Mussina?

Also, do you reconfigure the schedule at the end of the year to try and get him 20?

anyone want the yanks to take a flyer on baldelli?

personally, i would like the yanks to at least consider doing what the red sox do with all their pitchers but especially the younger ones with innings limits - where they put them on the dl in the middle of the season with a hangnail or whatnot to keep their innings down. i'm not sure it's the best course of action to start joba in relief again and have him make the transition to starting in the middle of the season again next year.

I wanna see Joba finish this game, unless it's a save situation....if he goes one inning plus one pitch I'm gonna be irked-

Hello Michael Jack Schmidt.

Just call him A-Pad. ;-)

stat padder ...

Gawd, that was so un-clutch...

95--I think if he gets to 19 via standard operating procedures, then you do what you can to get him an extra shot or two

Hello Mr. Schmidt

Schmidt was/is one of my favorite non-Yankees (along with Brett, which is ironic for a Yankees fan). Each one just looked liked a ball player (and had great road uniforms!).

96 You know, I like Rocco, but I'm afraid that it's more because of his name than anything else. He just sounds like a ballplayer.

But the problem is I don't think he could play anywhere unless they jettison Abreu and he gets hurt a lot and has some chronic medical issues that will impact his playing time.

104 remember in game 5 in '77 when Brett slugged Nettles? The funny thing is that no one got tossed...That sure as hell wouldn't happen today.

Just checked out the latest version of MLB's app on iPhone...really nice to have Gameday along with videos in a high quality presentation on a phone, very slick. Too bad there's not much use in tracking the games obsessively at this point, apart from hoping for Moose to win 20.

Of course, the team loving the events tonight the most is the Red Sox, as the WS, Twins and Rays are all losing.

The Rollin Tides in here must have all shed a tear for the Vols last night.

108 I mentioned that to a friend at work today and he said he liked to see the SEC do well except when they're playing Bama.

I told him "FUCK THAT. it's tennessee! I want to see Fat Phil and the pumpkin wearing vols lose every game!"

Bear in mind that Phil Fulmer had a lot to do with Alabama being put on probation in 2001.

more humid than the Congo out today, McCain "Ready to serve" after offering the Veep to someone he met ONCE, Japan moving on to its 13th Prime Minister in last 10 years, and Red Sox offense looking unstoppable..thank Buddha for this Yankee victory today, we needed it!

109 i think phil fulmer is speaking at the RNC ... uhhhh, as we speak ... as it were ...

110 Without wading too much into politics, I like McCain's VP pick because it represents a wing of the party/country with which McCain needs to have a closer association. I think one Senator is enough for any ticket. I am also not worried about Palin's lack of experience because quite frankly it isn't much less than Obama's. Ironically, the Dem ticket has the more qualified candidate batting second.

OK...no more politics, but I figured I'd give my 2 cents since you waded into it.

108 That's funny. I come from a long line of Irish Alum so my allegiance is with them. The only time I root for Alabama is when I'm watching Forrest Gump. : )
I did have a friend from Tennessee who would always wax poetic about the insanity surrounding SEC football. That I can dig.

How's this for irony, I have this unsettling confident feeling that the Yankees will sweep in TB, and I don't want them too!

Whoops. Jeb, see 113.

From the files of the best deals you don't make: Jarrod Washburn was 0-5 with a 5.45 ERA in the month of August.

So, at least the Yankees didn't trade anything of value or even simply saddle themselves with a bad contract for 2009. And then you wonder why the Mariners are so bad?

113 Ah the golden domers....our white whale. Did you know that Alabama has only beaten the Irish once out of 6-7 times? Bear Bryant was o-fer against them.

112 yeah, but..he met her once..ONCE!! sorry, but the country knows a lot more abotu Obama than this woman..McCain is 72 with a history of cancer..partisanship aside, amI wrong in finding this a bit odd and frightening??

114 Wait, william now you're an optimist? Has the world gone mad?!

112 and here i thought it was always the democrats who were the secessionists ...

116 I think the mariners are so bad because they overpay for guys like Betre and Washburn, and overtrade for Eric Bedard. And then they demand the sky for Washburn. I hope they like paying his salary.

By the way, Palin scares me a little.

With Joba's innings being so low, the Yankees are looking at having to put him back in the pen for two months next year. Instead of doing that, I'd like them to at least consider having Joba throw about 40 innings in Arizona, give him April off (basically start his ST in mid-March) and then have him join the rotation full-time in early May.

121 Beltre not a bad player..Washburn a waste..and Carlos Silva?? too bad, Mariners my favorite non-Yankee team...wonder if they go all out for Cashman?

122 that's a good plan for him.

Mussina wins...Mike Mussina winnnnnns!

By the way, assuming the Yanks don't make the post-season, who does everyone want to win the series?

Part of me says the Brewers but I am worried that they are hurting our future by overpitching CC

The cynic in may says Boston because that would make the Steinbrenners start printing money to hand it out.

119 To be fair, William is only against misplaced optimism. How that relates to this, I'm not exactly sure, but that much I'm sure... now me defending William... well, I am mad as you all know >;)

Lets get three more for Moose now.

10 games back over 500. woo-hoo.

moose! (but no moose stew :})
still on the path for 20.

nice to see joba and giese out there too.

122 i'd be okay with that too.

123 Beltre's not bad, but he's WAY overpaid after a monster season. I think that a lot of people smelled a steroids rat, but he got his coin anyway.

118 Who cares how well they know each other? VP's are selected more for what part of the country they are from than what policies they advocate. Quite frankly, I find it refreshing that McCain would turn to someone outside the Washington loop. Palin is the only person in this race with Executive experience whose reality isn't defined by the halls of the U.S. Senate. I am not sure what's so frightening about that, especially if you don't find Obama's lack of experience frightening.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but this looked a LOT like a real Yankees game. Where has this team been all year?

119 It might actually be pessimism though because I want the Rays to beat out the Sox. Ultimately, however, I am a realist, and looking at the Rays lineup and how poorly they played, I have a feeling the Yankees will take all three.

131 he might be the exact opposite of that ... he had a bad knee during that season, didn't get it fixed until afterwards, the word (even during that year) was that it forced him to stay back on everything, whereas normally he tends to jump and get out on his front foot ...

131 Never a good idea to buy high. Not when you're high, but when the goods are at a peak.

133 The Yankees are 20-9 in Moose's outing, so this game has been there all season every 5th day. It's the other 4 days that have been the problem.

132 Well, I disagree with every single policy position she has. She's under investigation for abuse of power, shall I go on.

Also, she wants to kill polar bears.

138 That's fine...disagreeing with every policy position is a legitimate reason to be frightened. I am frightened by Obama's policies too. The truth is both Palin and Obama both have little experience, but only one is heading a ticket. Of course, I am one who believes philosophy is more important than experience, even though the latter is important.

As for the abuse of power and the killing of polar bears, well, I could respond to that, but this is a baseball site and I promised no more politics, which I will stick to from this point forward! I promise!

Sox fans say thanks, keep it up.

Joe Lieberman is a backstabbing, petty little man. So far, the DNC to me was all about positives, hope, change, new policies. This RNC seems to be all about scaring people away from Obama and mumbling crap that doesn't make any sense. It just seems tired and old to me. It'd also help if the people in the audience weren't all white and older.

139 one more please! Palin has "experience"..being mayor of a town of 6000 people, then 20 months as governonr of Alaska..sorry, I am not an Obama supporter but his record is MUCH more impressive. Also, McCain showed very questionable judgement in choosing someone he does not know..McCain/Palin is scary for so many reasons I...ok, only baseball now! I promise too!! :)

141 Hear, Hear. Lieberman is revolting..

oh yeah, Free Amy Goodman! and check out the Veterans for Peace group who have a lot to say about McCain's fitness to serve..

Buddha likes the Yankees? Sweet.

141 Spoken like a true partisan. Something tells me Republicans will have the exact opposite opinion of the two conventions. At least the Republicans don't have a ticket of all men...don't the Dems know that women make up half the country? :)

142 OK fine...the town and state may be small, but she still has executive experience. Obama has one half term as a U.S. Senator and 7 years as a State Senator. Why does that impress you? What about Obama's record is impressive? What's more, the election is between McCain and Obama, so the experience contest isn't even close. Just ask Joe Biden...there are plenty of audio clips from this past winter in which he calls into question Obama's qualifications.

As for not knowing her, once again, I don't see how that matters. He made a selection that complement him very well...I don't see the value in picking another senator without a recent link to the real world.

143 You are wearing the partisan hate now too? What is so revolting about a man who bucks party lines to support what he believes? Lieberman is an excellent advocate for McCain, which is why I think Dems like yourself find him so revolting.

144 That's like saying check out a Red Sox blog for objective analysis of the Yankees :)

142 "ok, only baseball now! I promise too!! :) "

see 143 and 144

Cripes...I take a week or so off from the Banter and come back to find it has turned into political discussion board. Not meaning to single out Tokyo...those were only the most recent posts.

147 Oops, I spoke too soon 146 .

148 It's hard to not respond when the comments are so harsh. I am just trying to provide a balance...believe me, I'd be more than happy to not even dabble into politics.

147 148 apologies for that, i promise to not slip again! Back to the more important things at hand... who DO we root for down the stretch?? I say the Rays..no bad blood and would be a good lesson for HankHal on how young pitching really is the way you win...

149 I know what you mean. In my business I have plenty of colleagues who state blithely the most inflammatory political statements as if they are received truths. Then you're in a bind--bite your tongue and keep the peace, but lend tacit approval, or say something and look out. I come here to try to escape the typical partisan bickering.

150 Oh heck, I'll root for the Rays. To be honest, I've lost a good bit of interest now that things have picked up at work.

151 again, apologies for that slip-up. I too come to the Banter to escape all that (in my environment over here the Americans I meet are 98% on one side, which is polar opposite to my views..can be difficult!

anyways, a Rays-Cubs WS would be awesome..