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Hurts So Good
2008-08-07 04:30
by Alex Belth
Note: The Bronx Banter blog has moved to bronxbanterblog.com.
The latest on Joba...
Comments (92)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-08-07 05:02:27
1.   RIYank
Funny. In that article, Mo says "I would think it's serious, because it's the rotator cuff," and Moose says "If the word tendinitis is included, it's not bad."

I'm with Mike on this, optimist that I am.

2008-08-07 06:23:19
2.   Cliff Corcoran
1 Shows you how desperate we all are for diagnosis that we're relying on the medical opinions of Rivera and Mussina, neither of whom has seen Joba's MRI, nor would be likely to be able to interpret it if they had.
2008-08-07 06:28:54
3.   RIYank
2 True.
Also, how desperate the NYT is that they included those diagnoses!

But Mussina went to Stanford. Mussina went to Stanford. Mussina went to Stanford.

2008-08-07 07:00:31
4.   ms october
1 2 kind of have to agree with them though - tendinitis = not so bad; rotator cuff = not so good

either way have to wait a couple of weeks and see where joba is

2008-08-07 07:22:24
5.   dianagramr
I'm gonna wait to read what Will has to say.
2008-08-07 07:31:04
6.   OldYanksFan
From the NYT:
"Tendinitis is a vague term that can indicate a tear of some degree. Jorge Posada said in May that he had rotator-cuff tendinitis, but he actually had a tear in his subscapularis muscle. He eventually had labrum surgery.

Reminded of that, Mussina guessed that Posada aggravated his condition by throwing for so long before giving in to the pain. Girardi said tendinitis was nothing alarming."

From my reading, tendinitis can range from tiny, tiny tears that heal by themselves (with no or little rest), to a minor tear that (we hope) is Joba's situation, to larger tears that need either prolonged rest or surgery.

My question is about Posada. What did his initial MRI show? Did he HIDE his condition?
Did he INITIALLY have a tear that needed 4-6 weeks to heal or arthroscopic surgery?

Did the Yankees blow the diagnosis, or did Posada hide the condition and indeed agravate it until the point surgery was needed (and therefore a lost season)?

Was this somehow a 'blown call'?

2008-08-07 07:38:06
7.   OldYanksFan
Aaaah... PeteAbe answers my question.
'Dr. David Altchek told The Post this week that he knew in April that Posada needed surgery and should have ended his season then.

"My intent was that it was a significant injury and I mentioned that he shouldn't try," Altchek said.'

So, if Posada was shut down and had surgery immediately (assuming the problem was lesser then then it ultimately became... and might it have been diagnosed in March?), might Posada have been able to play in September (or at least DH)?

2008-08-07 07:45:26
8.   Schteeve
Posada and the team pretty clearly handled his situation irresponsibly, but understandably.

He is an older vet, just signed a big money contract, he wanted to earn his money.

Joba is cost controlled, and more future than past. Shut him down for the season if that's the prudent thing to do.

2008-08-07 07:46:09
9.   JL25and3
Pete Abe has a little more context for the Mussina quote: "To say he'll come back, that's not out of the question if that is really what he has. You just have to wait for it to calm down. If the word tendinitis is included, it's not bad." Pete rightly points to the lastt clause of the first sentence: "...if that is really what he has." Moose being from Stanford and all, he doesn't take these things at face value.

Also, "not out of the question" isn't exactly the most positive outlook. Sounds to me like we should figure on Joba being out for the rest of the season.

Finally, even taking the Yankee statements at face value, everything I've read begs the most important question: why did the inflammation develop in the first place? Is there an impingement, and is there something mechanical that's caused or aggravated that? Anyone else remember this analysis from last spring: http://tinyurl.com/63jvya?

I had an impingement that became rotator-cuff surgery, and that was without a violent pitching delivery. Never mind this season, I'm more worried about Joba for the long term.

2008-08-07 07:53:53
10.   dianagramr
More from Tyler Kepner:

http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/08/07/so-just-how-hurt-is-joba-chamberlain/

"In seven years on the Yankees' beat, I have learned to be skeptical with official information on injuries.

When Brian Bruney hurt his foot in April, we were told he had no structural damage. (He was out more than three months.) When Phil Hughes hurt his rib a week later, we were told there was nothing wrong with him physically. (He's still out.) When Chien-Ming Wang hurt his foot in mid-June, we were told he could be back this season. (He's still on crutches.)

So what Manager Joe Girardi said about Joba Chamberlain after Wednesday's game — "I'm confident he'll be back in the near future" – does not necessarily mean Chamberlain will indeed be back. He has rotator cuff tendonitis, or inflammation of the connective tissue around the shoulder joint. He will rest for a week or so and then begin a throwing program.

This is what I want to know: Will it be an aggressive throwing program aimed at bringing Chamberlain back for the stretch drive? And if it is, would that really be worth the risk?"

2008-08-07 07:54:11
11.   JL25and3
To be fair, there was a follow-up to that analysis here: http://tinyurl.com/5lfnpd. It dismisses some of the concerns, but not all.
2008-08-07 07:54:22
12.   tommyl
7 A likely scenario is that Posada was told he'd need season ending surgery and so he and the team decided to see if they could push him a bit farther. I don't think that's irresponsible if no long term damage was done. He should still be good to go for 2009.

9 Look, this is all speculation on everyone's part. If there's a tear they'd see it on the MRI. As for causes of tendinitis, it can be anything. Sometimes it means there's an impingement, sometimes it just means an inflammation. Think tennis elbow, how many people get that without it meaning structural damage to the elbow? I'd wager a lot. We'll see. I trust the Yankees to be conservative as hell with him. If he has to be shut down for the year, I'm fine with that. I'm amazed we're even in contention at this point so I'll take what I can get.

2008-08-07 07:54:48
13.   OldYanksFan
OK... now that I have setted the Joba situation, let's talk about possible improvemnents for the stretch run.

Question: Does Girardi realize that Melky is a 4th outfielder (this year anyway) and go with and outfield of Nady, Damon, and Abreu… like last night?

This is a pretty serious downgrade defensively at 2 OF positions. We also don't know if JD is still hurting and maybe somewhat limited on D. The upside is Betemit's bat instead of Melky's. Betemit and Giambi can rotate some at 1B/DH, with Sexy in for games against LHP.

Is Betemit better then we have seen because his playing time has been so erratic? The guy has serious pop. Even a number of his outs have been crushed. But the defensive downgrade is pretty serious, both in fielding and throwing.

... Is it worth it?
... Would platooning JC and Melky be an improvement?
... AJax is very young. Is it really woth giving him a shot? His MiLB numbers are decent but not outstanding. I don't think their MLB translation would be that much more then Melky (look what happened with Brett)
... Maybe another shot at Brett? He can't hit, but his speed was outstanding and he scored a lot of runs, considering his OBP.

2008-08-07 08:02:21
14.   JL25and3
12 I'm not suggesting there is a tear (though I am suggesting we shouldn't necessarily take Yankee reports at face value). And you're right, tendinitis can be caused by any number of things. Nevertheless, it's a crucially important question at this point. Joba's mechanics were brought up as a concern before the season, which makes it well worth looking at.

Tennis elbow is different for one extremely important reason: it's in the elbow. If this were Joba's elbow, I wouldn't be nearly as worried. As it stand, I think they have to figure out whether his mechanics put his shoulder at further risk.

2008-08-07 08:04:18
15.   standuptriple
Joba has tendonitis? I have tendonitis! Really though, as a sufferer of almost 20 years I can say, it is totally managable. Even at my worst bout it just required imobalization and rest. A little lifestyle change should be advised as well. You'd be surprised how much stuff you thought you could only do with your right arm, that can be done almost as easily as the left.
2008-08-07 08:07:20
16.   dianagramr
15

Joba's value as a lefty would increase tenfold, but I doubt he's any Pat Venditte :-)

2008-08-07 08:11:58
17.   OldYanksFan
15 Please.... nobody ask...
2008-08-07 08:15:54
18.   tommyl
14 Ok, I agree with you on that point. However, the kid gloves they have treated him with the past two years lead me to believe that if there were worried there was anything structurally wrong at all, he'd be shut down. Perhaps that's why they sent him to Andrews. The MRI showed inflammation but nothing else. Still they wanted to make sure they weren't risking his long term health so they sent him to the best. That's what I choose to hope for anyways. Wang had similar shoulder issues early on and he's turned out completely fine. No sense worrying until we know something is wrong.
2008-08-07 08:16:44
19.   tommyl
16 BTW, Venditte has been lights out as the SI Yankees closer. I mean lights out. I hope that kid makes it to the majors, it would be one of the most entertaining things to see.
2008-08-07 08:25:51
20.   dianagramr
Side note:
Padres put Brian Giles on waivers, and Red Sox put a claim in on him.
2008-08-07 08:29:51
21.   RIYank
JL,

Sounds to me like we should figure on Joba being out for the rest of the season.

Huh?
You mean, that's what you actually predict will happen, or rather, it very well could so we shouldn't count on him coming back?

I predict he comes back shortly after the 15 days. But I admit the Yanks could be 'managing information' and the injury is actually worse than we're being told.

2008-08-07 08:32:59
22.   tommyl
20 21 A lot could also depend on how Hughes and Kennedy pitch and how close we are in the race when he's ready to return. If we're 10 games out there's no point in pushing him (other than innings). If we're close but Hughes and IPK are pitching like they should it might not be worth it. If we're close and those guys are tanking again, then it becomes interesting. Its a fluid situation and hard to anticipate. A lot depends on how he recovers, how the team is doing, etc. We'll just have to wait and see.
2008-08-07 08:42:44
23.   JL25and3
21 That's what I'm predicting. Certainly, Moose's "not out of the question" didn't sound promising. The Yankees also consistently give underestimates - often pretty large ones - of how long a player will be out. I hope that they'll be as conservative as possible; and, finally, if 2 weeks stretches into 3-4 weeks, the season might no longer look like it's worth rushing him back for.
2008-08-07 08:57:51
24.   Raf
20 Odd that the Yanks would let him pass.
2008-08-07 09:03:10
25.   dianagramr
24

even odder that the Mets passed on him ...

2008-08-07 09:07:17
26.   dianagramr
Warner Madrigal needs a good coiffing

http://tinyurl.com/5pqqz2

2008-08-07 09:12:22
27.   standuptriple
17 I knew somebody would imply...something. The ambiguity was intended. This is a "family site" after all.
2008-08-07 09:18:37
28.   Max
26 Still blows my mind to have someone whose name refers to a "a short lyric poem, usually of love or pastoral life, often set to music as a song for several voices without instrumental accompaniment" ... look like the model for the Maggot Brain album cover.

http://tinyurl.com/5znqn7

2008-08-07 09:29:32
29.   Chyll Will
28 Love that album. Unfortunately, I can relate to to the title song's inspiration, but that makes me love it all the more.
2008-08-07 09:56:10
30.   JL25and3
27 I can never hear about "tennis elbow" without laughing. It's an essential part of a joke I can't tell here.
2008-08-07 09:57:33
31.   JL25and3
28 , 29 Great call on the album cover, and yeah, great album. One of the best extended guitar solos ever.
2008-08-07 10:52:43
32.   JL25and3
Will Carroll's take today:

"Chamberlain had his visit with Jim Andrews and came away with a diagnosis of "rotator cuff tendonitis." If you're a bit disappointed with the non-specificity here, you're hardly alone. It not only doesn't tell us much, it doesn't match up with what we know. Worse, it's the same initial diagnosis that was given to Jorge Posada, who was later found to have a rotator cuff tear. Chamberlain didn't have any muscular weakness in tests after he was pulled from his last start, and this pain should normally be in a different location. For what it's worth, my sources are saying that there are "mild internal issues," but they wouldn't use the word "damage," even with qualifiers or the typical imagery vagueness, and I think that's a pretty good sign. What it does match up with is a factor we saw earlier—the heat in Texas. It seems the biggest issue is that there's a high degree of distrust when the Yankees report injuries, and that's coming up larger with Chamberlain. If he's not back throwing within two weeks, that's going to be the best indication that something's up, though we really have no idea what his healing time might be. It would be better if the Yankees would step forward and give more information, especially from, or through, a trusted source like Jim Andrews, instead of leaving teammates to guess and confuse things."

2008-08-07 11:10:30
33.   thelarmis
28 i just posted this at Emma's essay, which thread is probably done. thanks for giving me an excuse to post it here, Max! : )

Emma, Warner Madrigal, is absolutely a wonderful name! esp. the surname. it wouldn't be medieval German chamber musik, however. Madrigals, are Italian vocal chamber pieces from the 14th-16th centuries and were in high-class art form. when i was in Classical Music school, i wrote a paper on the also fabulously named Cipriano de Rore, who was best known for his 16th century Italian madrigals.

English madrigals appeared in the 16th & 17th centuries, but weren't as noted. the high-brow art rock bands Rush & Yes, both had songs called "Madrigal" in the late 70's, but of course, neither one of them were truly madrigals, in form. still, it's a great name/title!

2008-08-07 11:13:50
34.   thelarmis
24 i, too, was shocked Giles wasn't blocked and made it all the way to boston. that would suck if they got him. his road splits are excellent this year.

speaking of names, GILES is SELIG backwards. hopefully, that would cause some kinda of bad karma if he ends up in beantown! ; )

2008-08-07 11:14:00
35.   Eirias
Mariano referring to Joba as a "young boy" is one of my favorite things I've read this season.
2008-08-07 11:20:40
36.   thelarmis
from mlbtraderumors:

Interestingly, the Red Sox won the claim on Giles. Their intent may have been keeping him away from the Rays and/or Angels. Giles can veto a trade to Boston, and he might simply because his playing time could be reduced. Also, I have learned that Giles would still be able to veto a straight salary dump. The Padres can't use this situation to sneak around Giles' no-trade clause.

2008-08-07 11:28:10
37.   dianagramr
33

Warner Madrigal anagrams to such things as:

MARGINAL REWARD

2008-08-07 11:29:42
38.   thelarmis
37 that rules! : )
2008-08-07 11:39:58
39.   Max
33 37 Awesome.
2008-08-07 11:45:21
40.   Raf
34 With the okeydoke that was pulled to put Henry & Co in charge in Boston, I don't think a coincidence like this would lead to bad karma.

36 Or, he could see this as an opportunity to win a WS and approve the trade. Playing time won't be an issue; I don't see Francona keeping Giles around and not playing him. Ellsbury gets sent down, and Giles plays one of the corner positions.

2008-08-07 11:49:03
41.   JL25and3
40 Ellsbury...sent down??? The fastest man in the history of the game - check that, the first truly fast player ever, the one who invented speed?
2008-08-07 11:51:44
42.   dianagramr
33

With apologies to one of my fave bands ...

When the batters grow too mighty
To slay with curve or sword
I grow weary of the battle
And the guy I walk on four
When all around is madness
And there's no empty base in view
I long to throw my pitch homeward
To stop a rally with you

When my arm becomes as useless
And as dead as winter skies
There's a beacon in the darkness
In my coach's pair of eyes
In vain to search for control
My ERA through the roof
But these things can still be given
This game has shown me proof

2008-08-07 11:52:41
43.   dianagramr
41

I thought Keanu Reeves invented Speed.

2008-08-07 11:56:12
44.   Raf
43 That would be Lazăr Edeleanu
2008-08-07 11:59:56
45.   cult of basebaal
the whole giles to the red sox "news" is just a big yawn ... if the padres needed to be rid of the rest of his salary for this year, the would have shopped him before the deadline, which the definitely didn't do ... if they're worried about next year's salary they'll shop him in the offseason when they can get multiple bids on his services ... they're not going to let him walk for nothing and remember, anyone the red sox want to trade for him, also has to pass through waivers ... and can be claimed.

this thing has a bluto blutarski's GPA chance of happening ...

2008-08-07 12:02:08
46.   KJC
42 One of the only bands from my youth that I still enjoy, and still like 'em even if they're for nerds. Glad I'm not the only fan...
2008-08-07 12:03:06
47.   OldYanksFan
This is pretty freakin' interesting.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-marshall051007
Anyone read it?
2008-08-07 12:11:08
48.   thelarmis
45 thanks for being the voice of reason, cult!

btw, they recently closed down the Jocks 'n Jills here in Atlanta, so there's no place - at least that i know of - that regularly carries the YES network and Yankee games. it was an Atlanta staple and there were at least 2 or 3 of them around town. not sure why, but they're all gone now...

btw, is your company sending you here again this August? if so, let me know!

2008-08-07 12:12:34
49.   thelarmis
the Muts' pen blew another fine outing for Johan, but they pulled out a victory in the bottom of the 9th, nonetheless...
2008-08-07 12:14:20
50.   bp1
42 Nice.

The rest of the album goes like:

A Farewell To Farns
Xananady
Closer To The Park
Giambino Man
Sidney X-1, Book One: The Buffet

(better stop now before this gets ugly)

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-08-07 12:14:42
51.   cult of basebaal
48 man, i wish ... travel's been slashed to the bone ... i suspect that the next place my company sends me is the unemployment line, though i'm not worried about that for the rest of the year ... too bad about jock's-n-jill's ... that place was a fine place to watch a game
2008-08-07 12:17:49
52.   thelarmis
i'm loving all the Rush references! i just missed their last tour date here a coupla weeks ago. but, i just got Neil Peart's new novel - Roadshow. i've barely started it, but it's unreal, per usual. the previous 2 books were also incredible; the first one, well... not so much.

Sidney X-1, Book One: The Buffet - that is frickin' hilarious!

2008-08-07 12:19:22
53.   thelarmis
51 ah, man. boo! yeah man, i only got to JnJ's like one other time. it's a drag it's gone...
2008-08-07 12:20:50
54.   dianagramr
50

well done sir .... well done!

2008-08-07 12:24:49
55.   thelarmis
Walking Man (for Cano)
By-Tor and the Mo-Dog
I Think I'm Going Balk
A Passage To Kaballah
In The Food (Ode To Ponsoon)
Moosic Rhythms
2008-08-07 12:28:20
56.   Raf
45 What if they trade Giles for a PTBNL?
2008-08-07 12:30:17
57.   dianagramr
52

Of course you must know that Geddy is a HUGE baseball fan.

I finally got to see them live for the 1st time at Radio City on their 30th anniversary tour. Quite a memorable night!

Other songs you may know ...

21.12 Overture / The ERA of Starters
A Passage to Scranton
Spirit of Ramiro
Red Barberchetta
Closer to the Heart (of the plate)
Jacob (Ruppert's) Ladder
Bruney's Bane
Bullpen Early Warming
Joe-Tor and the Wade Boggs

2008-08-07 12:31:53
58.   thelarmis
Spirit of Cano
Cano Don't Tell

it's too late, bp1 - you started...and i can't stop! ; )

2008-08-07 12:34:10
59.   thelarmis
57 Bruney's Bane, Bullpen Early Warming - excellent!

oh yeah, Geddy actually checks the stats on his fantasy team backstage during Neil's drum solos! that is sooo funny to me, for so many reasons!

2008-08-07 12:36:16
60.   thelarmis
57 i've seen Rush live many many many times and i did catch the R30 tour. Neil's new novel is a travelogue about that tour - he rode his motorcycle to all the gigs instead of riding on the tour bus (like i would've done!) it was an excellent tour and the corresponding dvd set is a must-have!

the latest studio and live cd are both awesome. it's the 1st studio album since Presto i've actually loved...

2008-08-07 12:40:25
61.   thelarmis
Goose Under Pressure
2008-08-07 12:41:22
62.   dianagramr
61

Nice ...

2008-08-07 12:49:30
63.   thelarmis
Roll The (Ricky) Bones

...and with that, i think i'm done. imho, here are the winners. in no particular order:

A Farewell To Farns
Sidney X-1, Book One: The Buffet
I Think I'm Going Balk
In The Food (for sir sid)
Moosic Rhythms (moose/triple A)
Bruney's Bane
Bullpen Early Warming
Cano Don't Tell
Goose Under Pressure

2008-08-07 12:58:01
64.   JL25and3
52 Thanks, thelarmis, for at least letting me know who you guys were talking about...

I did a whole lot better with the Sun Ra thread last year.

2008-08-07 13:05:46
65.   thelarmis
64 ah, no worries! : )

hey, i meant to ask you - and the others with big ears - are you familiar with the Mingus record "Let My Children Hear Music"? it's simply astounding!

2008-08-07 13:21:20
66.   nick
oh, man, I come here for Joba info and stumble into a Rush convention!

Alex, couldn't ya distract em with some old-school hip-hop vids or something? Please?

2008-08-07 13:26:22
67.   thelarmis
66 hip-hop definitely drives me away - every time! don't fear nick, i think the Rush laser light show is over... : )

now, when you say Alex - do you mean Belth or Lifeson?! ; )

2008-08-07 13:27:33
68.   AbbyNormal821
43 I think it was Goose & Maverick that invented Speed...at least "the need for Speed"

;-P

2008-08-07 13:31:32
69.   cult of basebaal
56 that's a good question and the only fly in the ointment ... i'm pretty sure that the PTBNL can't be on the 25 man roster and might not be allowed from the 40 man roster either ... in any case, the general point still holds, whatever the players offered are, they'd have to be better than the padres thought they might get by offering giles on the winter trade market, meaning i think the red sox would have to pay dearly AND be able to pass all the parts through waivers (or avoid the process) ... still seems a longshot
2008-08-07 13:34:58
70.   buffalocharlie
http://tiny.cc/zBxtm

back in June:

Geddy Lee, the legendary bassist, vocalist and keyboardist for the Canadian prog rock band Rush has donated 200 signed baseballs by former players or backers, marking the single largest donation to the Negro Leagues Museum to date, according to director of marketing, Bob Kendrick.

2008-08-07 13:38:38
71.   cult of basebaal
hey everybody!

just what you wanted to hear!!

more bad news!!!

pettite's may have to miss his next start with "stiffness" in his pitching arm ...

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/yankees/

2008-08-07 13:48:06
72.   thelarmis
71 holy crap. when it rains it pours. this just sucks...
2008-08-07 13:51:46
73.   dianagramr
71

OK .... best we start talking about RUSH some more .... :-(

2008-08-07 13:55:08
74.   thelarmis
73 my thoughts exactly. i just put on the new live record. (sorry, nick!)
2008-08-07 13:56:54
75.   dianagramr
and the Rays just acquired Chad Bradford ...

(oh well, if not the Yanks, let it be the Rays)

2008-08-07 13:57:00
76.   Vandelay Industries
I still say it is time for Arod to walk into the Yankees offices and demand number six. Enough of this thirteen already. I am not a superstitious man, but sheesh already.
2008-08-07 13:58:35
77.   thelarmis
no leche again today. outfield is Nady, Damon, BoBBy. me likey...

go Moose! hope the weather holds up...

2008-08-07 14:01:46
78.   Vandelay Industries
77 YES versus all other team broadcasts: Last night, ESPN reports during the game that Melky is "banged up" and will certainly be back in there for the Angels series. It isn't "put it on the board..............yes" but it was simply an assumption that Sutcliffe's moronic sidekick made and then reported as fact to millions of viewers.
2008-08-07 14:08:50
79.   Shaun P
77 Yeah, the weather has to hold, because Moose has got to get through 6 innings. IPK tomorrow, Giese Saturday, and (if Pettitte can't go) Rasner on Sunday leaves the bullpen rather lacking a true "long man".

I suppose they could sacrifice Britton (again) if they needed to, then send him down when they call IPK up. Then, play the weekend with a 6-man pen, or someone else (Christian?) goes down for one of the other relievers (Patterson or Traber unless they make a 40-man move, like shifting Jorge to the 60-day DL).

Aye-aye-aye.

2008-08-07 14:09:27
80.   JL25and3
65 No, but I just read the writeup at allmusic.com, and I have no idea how I've managed to miss that one. I've got a ton of Mingus and love just about every note of it; I've also seen the Mingus Big Band a couple of times, which is a fantastic show (or was, anyway, before they moved to a bigger space a few years ago; I haven't seen them since). I definitely have to check this one out.
2008-08-07 14:20:32
81.   thelarmis
80 nice! i haven't read the write-up about it, but i've owned it for ages and have read the libretto before. it's just unreal. it's Mingus's favorite album of his, also. it's my favorite Mingus record, too - by far.

it's 1972 and part of the Columbia Jazz Masterpiece series, so it should be pretty easy - and cheap - to find...

the Mingus Big Band is indeed cool. i have a concert poster of them hanging at my drum studio and a Mingus postcard on my fridge! : )

2008-08-07 14:29:40
82.   randym77
71 We're freakin' doomed.
2008-08-07 14:42:36
83.   cult of basebaal
81 i'll go with black saint and the sinner lady or live at antibes ...
2008-08-07 14:45:15
84.   Raf
82 Doomed! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmZRDUO1wGQ
2008-08-07 14:46:04
85.   tommyl
71 If Pettitte goes down as well for any length of time this season is well and truly over. Patching over injuries is one thing but that leaves us with 2/5 of our projected starting rotation (and one of those doesn't have a win yet), without our starting catcher and DH. Yeah, I don't see this team contending with Rasner, Giese and Ponson in the rotation. That's a joke.
2008-08-07 14:48:47
86.   JL25and3
83 Both great. (I was about to say that Mingus with Dolphy is just unfair...but then, basically anybody with Dolphy is just unfair.)

For that matter, I can't ever get tired of the old standbys, Pithecanthropus Erectus and Mingus Ah Um.

2008-08-07 14:49:11
87.   JL25and3
85 Too bad Dolphy's not available.
2008-08-07 14:52:57
88.   Schteeve
I feel like it's been pouring for months.
2008-08-07 14:52:59
89.   tommyl
87 Who?
2008-08-07 15:06:30
90.   Raf
89 First base
2008-08-07 15:32:08
91.   randym77
90 No, Hu is a shortstop.
2008-08-08 07:07:23
92.   KJC
66 How about combining Rush with hip hop?

http://tinyurl.com/ztrip-rush

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